How to use a Gladius in RL???

[AlexanderSextus]

I was in Italy for these past two weeks, and i bought a Pompeii Gladius. (didnt get to play EB but i was THERE!!!!) One of the things i wanted to do with it was Bring it to my Kung Fu Class and test it out vs the Chinese swords, but i dont really know how to use it.

I know it was primarily a thrusting weapon, and i know how it was used to thrust, but i'm not familiar with any of the cuts or parrys that were used with it and i was wondewring if anybody knew more about them. I do remember somewhere someone said something about how legionaries were trained to cut with the gladius as well as stab, so i'm guessing somebody on here knows about this.

(p.s. Its not sharp, so dont worry i'm not gonna kill nobody)

Thanx in advance.

[Ibrahim]

you use it with a scutum/ caetra man-I've not seen any case of a "style" with sword only. just jab and parry with scutum, poke with the Gladius. not much to it....then again, EB might heve found something else:clown:
also, aim for the stomach with the sword. also under the armpit or in the neck. the groin is a really painfull spot. but now I'm going Vegetius (5th cent. AD). 2 inches in is all that is needed to kill a man

[QuintusSertorius]

It wasn't "primarily a thrusting weapon" a gladius hispaniensis was a cut and thrust sword. The edge isn't for show.

You need a shield to use it in a traditional fashion, one of the classic maneuvers was to hit someone with your shield, then stab them in the stomach/chest/groin while they were on the ground.

[AlexanderSextus]

well how were you supposed to cut with it??? i'm planning on using it with a caetra-style shield, because i think it would be too unfair to my kung fu buddies to use a scutum.

(they wouldnt really have any targets and it woud be too easy for me to win)

[mcantu]

ask this question over at www.myarmoury.com

[AlexanderSextus]

GOOD LOOKIN OUT man. I searched everywhere on google for a site like this when i was in italy

[QuintusSertorius]

well how were you supposed to cut with it??? i'm planning on using it with a caetra-style shield, because i think it would be too unfair to my kung fu buddies to use a scutum.

(they wouldnt really have any targets and it woud be too easy for me to win)

Same way you cut with anything, swing your arm. What's the problem?

[AlexanderSextus]

no problem, i just thought that maybe the romans had developed a specific way of cutting with it. no big deal...

[Bumbar]

There were quite a few fighting scenes in HBO's Rome, if you want to check that out. In first episode, they show a battle against Gauls, with Romans fighting in standard formation. And in eleventh episode, there's an arena fight between two gladiators equipped with sword and smaller shield.

[fenix3279]

I also recall a technique where you "hook" your arm around the back of your opponent's knee and yank the gladius back toward you, severing the tendons of the leg in the process. Yeah, ouch.

[Ibrahim]

hamstringing is indeed effective. but it does not compare to stabbing through the solar plexus:2thumbsup:

[fenix3279]

No doubt but you've got to get through the sheild first, granted that your opponent actually knows what he's doing.

[-Praetor-]

A good movement is to push the opponent with the shield, and while the guy is locked on your shield, cut the tendons behind the knee, which will make the opponent to fall on the ground, ripe for a final hit.

Also, common thrusting hits would be to the belly, neck, face, and not so common but nevertheless possible hits would be to the ribs area (danger of the blade getting stuck in the bones).

And I base the prior on absolutely nothing but common sense.

PS: Oh, and the scutum is absolutely essential.

[Ibrahim]

No doubt but you've got to get through the sheild first, granted that your opponent actually knows what he's doing.

I know.. that's why sometimes stabbing in the armpit works:clown:
but yes, hanstringing is safest, and quickest in knoking all the enemies down to be killed.

[fenix3279]

I know.. that's why sometimes stabbing in the armpit works:clown:
but yes, hanstringing is safest, and quickest in knoking all the enemies down to be killed.
Too right mate. Also the neck is a particularly vulnerable spot. Plenty of blood to be lost there without much difficulty. Slash or thrust; it doesn't matter. He's down either way.

[cmacq]

one quick jab into or at the face and/or neck.

[Poulp']

armpits are prize, and so are the inner thighs; it both causes massive blood loss and immobilize your opponent.

[QuintusSertorius]

one quick jab into or at the face and/or neck.

Except both are small targets, and the face is protected by a lot of bone. Besides which people instinctively flinch when things are thurst at them in that direction. Much harder to move anything at or below your centre of gravity.

[cmacq]

Right,
that’s why the shield was used to jam the target first, throw it off balance, target stabilized, thrust to face, as the levy to the left and right do likewise. Then use the shield edge against the target to pull out of the face, as the next set of targets step up. Don’t believe me as when it's written about, this is more or less what the ancients say. Apparently they believed the gut or groin thrust could be more easily parried and/or took too long to kill the target. Besides a face thrust makes a statement, it lets the Opfor know the rules of the game have changed and things are about to get ugly.

[mucky305]

An important part of using the Gladius was the orientation of the blade in relation to the ground. It was thrust forward flat so that blade could slip between the ribs of an enemy. The killing blow was demonstrated rather well in HBO Rome when Pullo kills Cicero, a thrust down into the chest (heart and other vitals) via the soft tissue around the neck and at the top of the rib cage. Very gory.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And very showy, it's the killing move of the arena. A stab to the neck or belly is better in a pitched battle, you twist as you withdraw, stops it getting stuck on anything. Hacking arms off was also a favourite tactic. The Gladius is an excellent edge-weapon. Almost better than the thrust, perhaps.

[AlexanderSextus]

another question...how was the scutum held??? i remember reading that it was not held like an aspis (forearm loop and vertical grip) so what was the grip on the scutum like???

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Vertical, in the boss, held with the knuckles pointing outwards.

[chairman]

PVC: was it really held vertically? Because everything that I've seen or read indicates a horizontal grip, even though this makes no sense when you need to hold javelins in the shield hand before you throw them.

Chairman

[pezhetairoi]

Yup, I'm pretty sure it was horizontal.

[cmacq]

forearm loop

From the examples I've seen there isn't a forearm loop on the scutum? And, the boss handle/grip was horizontal with no room to hold anything else. The javelins must have been either expended before contact or stuck in the ground further back for the rear ranks to toss. Regardless, the sword couldn't have been drawn until the javelins were out of hand. Apparently, they didn’t want the levies to have a javelin in the shield hand after contact or they would have designed the grip differently.

[AlexanderSextus]

the hoplite shield is held by putting the forearm thru a small loop and gripping the handle at the end, making the forearm the support for the shield.

sooo...the scutum is held by a horizontal grip in the center and thats it? sounds tiring....did the scutum have, like a shoulder strap or something??? it seems that to hold that really big shield with one hand with no forearm support or strap would wear you out pretty quick.

or those legionaries were just badass and the weight of the shield was nothing to them. Clarify this for me plz??

-thanx guys i didnt think there would be so much time spent on this topic. good stuff!!

[cmacq]

The scutum grip may have been designed for certain types of movements only. For example to rest it on the ground with a left hand boss grip and the bottom edge backuped by the left foot in defense. Or one would thrust it forward and tilted to use the leading edge, or vertically to use the boss in offense, to jam or setup a target. Never to move it side to side to parry or attack. In formation fighting fore and aft moves are OK, but side to side moves not so much. Side to side moves would get in the way of the files left and right at some point. While fore and aft moves also helped to keep the interior lanes between each rank clear. I think these are the very basics?


CmacQ

[QuintusSertorius]

the hoplite shield is held by putting the forearm thru a small loop and gripping the handle at the end, making the forearm the support for the shield.

sooo...the scutum is held by a horizontal grip in the center and thats it? sounds tiring....did the scutum have, like a shoulder strap or something??? it seems that to hold that really big shield with one hand with no forearm support or strap would wear you out pretty quick.

or those legionaries were just badass and the weight of the shield was nothing to them. Clarify this for me plz??

-thanx guys i didnt think there would be so much time spent on this topic. good stuff!!

That's one of the reasons legionaries trained. It's also why the "professional" legions trained with double-weighted equipment, although the later scutum was a little lighter than the earlier ones.

[Mythra]

[QUOTE=k_raso;1940815]A good movement is to push the opponent with the shield, and while the guy is locked on your shield, cut the tendons behind the knee, which will make the opponent to fall on the ground, ripe for a final hit. QUOTE]

Kraso right ...The majority of the blows were initially carried on the level of the legs. The shield was slightly raised, the opponent push, then the blow was carried. Thereafter its leave room to your imagination. Trusting or slashing I don’t now but you must note that the techniques of roman combat like those of Greek supposed a combat in formation. Regarding the one on one fighting, those who refer you to the engagements in the arena surely proposed a good track for an answer.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Sorry, yes, I meant horizontal, it was late at night and I was tired. Although, one example of a vertical grip has been found. Mind, shield designs in the Roman Army were a lot more varried than is often thought.