New to all this..but keen to learn

[CMOT Dibbler]

Been a long time player of the games in this series, but never really got interested in the seemingly huge modding scene that goes with it. Now my curiosity has been piqued!

didn't hurt a bit....

Registered at TWCenter, but there doesn't seem to be much by way of advice and guidance happening over there. Lots of mods and mod teams, but not many people willing to share the secrets.

That's what I need....the secrets!

I can use Max ( and have done for years in terms of modelling and animation ) and can texture and UV map ... so I don't need to learn the basics. Just need to know how I apply those skills to the game here.

I want to make a WHOLE NEW UNIT from scratch. The works. Everything. No better way to learn to swim than by jumping in at the deep end...er...you do employ lifeguards here? yes?

Can this be done.... or are we limited to making changes to the visible elements without making the more fundamental changes to the under-parts?

I know from past rummagings that this was impossible in previous versions of the game, but seems to have been sorted for M2TW. Can anyone point me in a good starting direction?

[alpaca]

Can't really say that I ever created a new unit, in theory I could figure it out though so I can try to tell you which files you have to look at and, possibly, which tools to use, but usually my guidelines aren't really helpful because they're too short. Besides, there's not many secrets to share, most of us are autodidacts and that's what you'll have to be, too.

Anyways, you might want to start editing an existing unit first to get a feel for the files you need to edit; it's commendable and understandable that you want to start with adding a new unit but you need to know your limits, so consider yourself warned.

Units in M2TW consist of a model, a texture and a bunch of text entries (and, optionally, animations and such but I've not been following progress in that area lately). To find which models and textures are used for which unit you'll have to take a look at battle_models.modeldb (I'd propose to use a tool written by KnightErrant to beautify it I've forgotten the name of) which links a unit entry to the graphics side.
If you want to edit a unit model or texture you'll then need to convert the appropriate files to a format you can read with a normal editor (using either GrumpyOldMan's or KnightErrants mesh unpackers, and a tool to convert textures - there's one I wrote and I've been told there's some sort of editor natively supporting the .texture format), edit them, and convert them back. If you set up your mod folder correctly, this should then already show up in the game.
To add a new unit, you'll also have to create a new entry in the modeldb, and in export_descr_units.txt (for the internal stuff) as well as text/export_units.txt (for the localised name and description). That should be all of it, it doesn't sound too much but it's tedious stuff the first few times you do it.

There's also quite a few tutorials (here, on the TWC and maybe on heavengames) that talk about adding units, editing meshes and stuff, so go and have a look at them. We're doing this in our free time so don't expect people to give you a complete subjective walkthrough in baby steps because that's just something that doesn't happen.

[CMOT Dibbler]

Thanks for the pointers.

Rest assured, I am under no illusions as to the amount of work invovled in making something new for a game, and that it won't be easy. Few things worth doing are!

I figure that if I set myself a goal, and then just work towards it, by the time I get there, I will have learnt enough of each element of modding the game well enough to do what I want to do. I have already been hoovering up every tutorial I can find, every tool that looks useful, and every scrap and morsel of wisdom out there.

Of particular note is a 'guide' written by Alletun that seems to show a lot of what I need to know. My next task is to take a few test pieces and try and put them in the game so I can see them.

From a 'community' point of view, would it be a good idea to start a topic on this, and post what I did and how it went, including the final results etc. Might help others with their baby steps.

[alpaca]

I don't know, I'm not a newbie ;)
My general policy about tutorials is to ask myself how much I'd have liked a text to be available when I started out with the topic, and how much I feel like writing one. I think almost any well-written tutorial is useful for somebody so if you want to document your steps, I'm sure you'll find an audience. There's also been some demand for a kind of "meta-tutorial" that takes people by the hand from the start until they're able to do some task by themselves so if you want to do that I'm sure people would be grateful (although my personal opinion on that is: if somebody doesn't have the perseverance to learn modding with what's available right now, they won't produce a worthwhile mod anyways)

[CMOT Dibbler]

The first few steps have gone well and simply. The unpacker tool works exactly like it says it should, and all you have to do is click on the batch file, and M2TW turns from a large install to an absolutely huge install!!!! I wonder how many people are put of modding by pure lack of disc space... thsi thing BLOATS!

There are existing tutorials that cover setting up a mod folder and a batch file to run the mod folder from, and I am pretty sure I have done that correctly. I made a few detail changes to the cfg file that proved I HAD created a mod folder, and that it was reading the cfg file I wanted, not the stock one. Again, this is a well documented process, and there was plenty of good info available by searching here or at TWCenter.net in tutorial and help sections.

There is a mass of text type files that I want to edit ( though it seems to be not quite as simple as text files....but, again, there are tutorials, so I should be OK reading these. I want to start with the process for recruitment of a unit, and how that can be controlled and managed. I never liked the standard approach to recruitment. If you conquer a city, why shoiuld it suddenly start making troops of your sort... This fits even worse for any fantasy type mod too. Why should a Dwarf City suddenly start producing trolls or orcs!
When the city is taken, the troops generated may serve you instead, but they would be 'local' troops for a 'local garrison'. I would prefer a core of units buildable from any given territory, bolstered with mercenaries. There would then be other conditional 'special' units requiring certain mutually exclusive buildings etc. This would force a new city owner to tear down some buildings to put up a new one.
I don;t know how possible all this is, or how ( if at all ) it would affect the way the computer gets troops or builds armies up. I assume it is bound by the same rules, and just tries to build hte best troops it can in the city. This would ( I guess ) rule out any kind of approach that restricted building of your units to your home territory. I can foresee the computer having strong armies at home, and all its conquered territories being stuffed with peasants! Not good for an enjoyable game!

I also want..VERY MUCH... to remove the Pope and leave just the 'council of nobles' type of missions.

Once I have this all sorted out, I will move onto the world itself...mapping! I figure it is possible to make new models etc. from Alletun's tome of knowledge, so I will get to that later. Of more interest to me is how to get those units functional in a mod. no point in just sittiung around making stacks of new soldiers if they never get to be used in anything other than custom battles!

[CavalryCmdr]

I also want..VERY MUCH... to remove the Pope and leave just the 'council of nobles' type of missions.


As far as I know that cant be done completely, however I know you can remove all the Popes influence and missions.