View Full Version : Region-specific units?
Pragmatic
10-23-2002, 12:22
What units are available based on the province, not the faction? I'm talking units that can only be produced by ANYONE who owns that province, and ONLY in that province. (Well, if religion plays a role, that's important, too.) (I'm ignoring region-specific units that are available only through Inns, like Turcopoles.)
In many of the Russian provinces (Chernigov, Kiev, Khazar, Muscovy, Pereyesavl, Ryazan, Volga-Bulgaria), there's the Steppe Cavalry.
In the eastern Baltic provinces (Lithuania, Livonia, Volhynia), there's the Lithuanian Cavalry (though it takes a LOT of buildings for a light cavalry unit).
Spanish Jinettes, unfortunately, are Catholic-only units, but are available in Iberian peninsula (Leon, Castille, Aragon, Cordoba, Granada, Navarre, Valencia).
Armenian Heavy Cavalry are Muslim-only units, available in Asia Minor (Armenia, Lesser Armenia, Rum).
Swiss Halberdiers are available to any faction that owns Switzerland (post-patch).
Gallowglasses are available to any Catholic faction that owns Ireland.
Saharan Cavalry is a Muslim-only unit available only in North Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Cyrenicia, Egypt).
Bedouin Camel Warriors is a Muslim-only unit available only around Saudi Arabia (Egypt, Sinai, Arabia, Syria).
Highland Clansmen seem to be available only to Christian factions who own Scotland.
Desert Archers is a Muslim-only unit available in North Africa and Middle East (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Cyrenicia, Egypt, Sinai, Arabia, Syria, Palestine, Tripoli, Antioch, Edessa).
Genoese Sailors are Christian-only units avaible only in Genoa.
Kerns are Catholic-only units available only in Ireland.
Woodsman are available to any faction which controls Scandinavia, Poland and eastern Baltic (Livonia, Lithuania, Norway, Novgorod, Poland, Sweden, Silesia, Volhynia).
And finally Swiss (Armored) Pikemen are available to any faction that controls Switzerland.
Did I miss any? I found it slighlty saddening. I like playing as the Byz, and controlling from Navarre/Aragon all the way to Serbia/Bulgaria and Khazar. But now I see that I can't get the Spanish Jinettes. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Veiny Eyeball
10-23-2002, 12:39
This is all listed in a handout that comes with the game.
You don't have to own Switzerland to get swiss armoured pikemen. They are available everywhere.
Just build county militia and master armourer
Quote Originally posted by Uzi:
You don't have to own Switzerland to get swiss armoured pikemen. They are available everywhere.
Just build county militia and master armourer[/QUOTE]
yep but that's a bug and will be corrected in the patch
Pragmatic
10-23-2002, 21:48
Quote Originally posted by Veiny Eyeball:
This is all listed in a handout that comes with the game. [/QUOTE]
Right. The tech tree/unit guide. That's where I pulled the info from. But I figured I'd put it all in one place. It explains why I've had some trouble getting some of the units in which I was interested, though.
You can say that Turcopoles are regionspecific as they 'only' come in Inns in the Levant (Syria, Tripoli, Antioch, Edessa). I use the ' because I have had them pop up in Normandy, when no Catholic faction controlled any of those provinces... Strange huh?
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Niccolomachiavelli
10-23-2002, 22:20
I'm actually a little disappointed that you dont get the opportunity to build catholic/muslim type units when you take over their territories. It gets a little odd when, as the Egyptians for example, I'm expanded to Norway but am limited to my typical inventory of Saracen Infantry, Mamluk cavalry, etc. Shouldnt I be able to train myself some Foot Knights or something? I dont think we can assume that wherever you go in the world and wherever you conquer, you're bringing a fresh supply of muslim civilians to take up residence in the conquered territory so that you can train muslim specific units. Maybe I'm missing some sort of rational reason for this, which is altogether likely
Quote Originally posted by Niccolomachiavelli:
I'm actually a little disappointed that you dont get the opportunity to build catholic/muslim type units when you take over their territories. It gets a little odd when, as the Egyptians for example, I'm expanded to Norway but am limited to my typical inventory of Saracen Infantry, Mamluk cavalry, etc. Shouldnt I be able to train myself some Foot Knights or something? I dont think we can assume that wherever you go in the world and wherever you conquer, you're bringing a fresh supply of muslim civilians to take up residence in the conquered territory so that you can train muslim specific units. Maybe I'm missing some sort of rational reason for this, which is altogether likely[/QUOTE]
The rationale that comes to mind is that those christian/pagan warriors are not too keen on converting to Islam and fighting for you. (apply the reverse for christians expaning into muslim areas)
Slowly but surely the provincal religion will change to "yours" anyway perhaps reflecting migration of your peoples from their homelands into the frontier areas.
Anyway, being able to use another faction's units seems to run against having diverse factions to choose from in my book.
Galestrum
10-23-2002, 23:21
actually being able to recruit from conquered regions is very (1) historical (2) doesnt hurt the game if you limited to speacial and region specific troops
Well who will be able to use swiss armored pikemen after this alleged patch? You cannot play as the Swiss.
Quote Originally posted by sbreden:
Well who will be able to use swiss armored pikemen after this alleged patch? You cannot play as the Swiss.[/QUOTE]
The techtree says all factions should they own Switzerland, but I have heard only Christians.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Niccolomachiavelli
10-24-2002, 01:22
I disagree. I believe that the changing percentage of followers shown in a province represents the number of people in that province which believe in your faith. No migration no nothing. For example, if they used to be, say, 100% catholic and I came along, conquered, and did some Imam spamming and made the province 100% islamic, then I *should*, by your rationale anyway, be able to convert christian type troops for my islamic cause. If you wanted to discourage that sort of thing maybe you could put in a requirement that you raise the zeal to a cerain level too. Anyhow, I just think it would be both realistic and much more fun if I could get myself a regiment of, say, muslim Chivalric Knights.
Thane Talain MacDonald
10-24-2002, 01:45
Not really. Muslim countries did not HAVE the concept of chivalry, nor a nobility to take knights from.
solypsist
10-24-2002, 01:46
whoever "owns" Switzerland will be able to make Swiss pikemen. Please read the manual (as pathetic as it is) before ranting, plz.
Niccolomachiavelli
10-24-2002, 01:54
Quote Originally posted by Thane Talain MacDonald:
Not really. Muslim countries did not HAVE the concept of chivalry, nor a nobility to take knights from.[/QUOTE]
:P fine, then just Islamic Knights with the same armor, weapons, stats etc.
Quote Originally posted by Niccolomachiavelli:
I disagree. I believe that the changing percentage of followers shown in a province represents the number of people in that province which believe in your faith. No migration no nothing. For example, if they used to be, say, 100% catholic and I came along, conquered, and did some Imam spamming and made the province 100% islamic, then I *should*, by your rationale anyway, be able to convert christian type troops for my islamic cause. If you wanted to discourage that sort of thing maybe you could put in a requirement that you raise the zeal to a cerain level too. Anyhow, I just think it would be both realistic and much more fun if I could get myself a regiment of, say, muslim Chivalric Knights.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I agree. Maybe not with chivalric knights (are those even region specific?) but if I'm a muslim nation and a devoutly muslim ireland is part of my empire, don't you think I could get native kerns and gallowglasses to fight for me?
Niccolomachiavelli
10-24-2002, 04:53
I'm not even limiting my suggestion to region specific units. I mean any christian unit. Even knights. Heck, if I'm rich enough, I can just buy armor and train any old citizen.
But knights aside, as that is a more complicated issue, I think muslims should be able to train, say, halbierders or men-at-arms if they get enough loyalty. So, yes, I want region specific units but also any kind of units which would present a logic problem (as muslim knights seem to, though we could discuss that further)
smap1024
10-24-2002, 18:16
i rather go for this rationale, if u managed to get a "normal" unit (non-merc) though various means, bribing, rebels joining your side, i will like to have the chance to replenish their ranks. not build more of the same though, although as it is in game now, if u can replenish, means u can build. of course u can at least replenish through using mercs but to me the problem with mercs is u dunno what type will emerge, if they do emerge at all.
i had gotten a 7 star gulam cavalry unit b4 (without any crap vices like retreat often, now that's rare for AI :P ) when i was
playing as spain. shame i dun use him in battle at all since i can't replenish his troops.
Prodigal
10-24-2002, 18:47
As Byzant, you can't create Armenian Hev. cav btw. I've posted this comment all over today, but as I spent most of last night trying to build them, & cursing the tech. tree as a cheap glossy piece of scap paper, I feel justified
MonkeyMan
10-24-2002, 20:36
much as dane and novograd players like vikings they really should be confined to building them in scandinavia. All thiese this are moddable of course so if you don't like something, stop telling us and just go fix it yourself. The only thing i don't think you can do is say some factions can build something, and others can but only in certain places. I think this may be the route cause of the swiss pike problem, i.e. i'm not sure you can have +1 valour pikes and only build them there, and also make them avaliable to an emergant swiss faction.
Quote Originally posted by solypsist:
whoever "owns" Switzerland will be able to make Swiss pikemen. [/QUOTE]
And the Holy cheese of course! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
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