View Full Version : Rout button - why?
What good does this button do? Once a unit routs, I lose control of them and I've never been able to figure out what makes the Rally button become available: sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
I clicked ROUT during a Quick Battle by accident and watched a perfectly good unit of Longbowmen disappear off the field of battle, never to be heard from again
Sometimes, just moving some mounted knights away from infantry to recharge causes them to rout.
I know this must be a morale issue, but any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Boondock Saint
10-24-2002, 22:34
Well ...
1. A trick to get the enemy to break formation and give chase so that a unit/units hiding can ambush them or just take advantage of the broken formation.
2. I guess if u know u will lose and dont want to actually lose the men or unit itself ... though the withdraw option is better for that.
The idea of the route is good though I never actually use it. ... but from what i remember reading in the book my first reason was the point to it.
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TomThumbKOP
10-24-2002, 22:34
The only reason I've used it is to get a defender off a hill. I rout my entire army then when the defender pursues, I rally them and attack. I only have a 50/50 success at rallying so I usually only do this in a battle where I would win anyway and I just want to try something different. When it works, I do get a better kill ratio than I think I would have if I had have assaulted the entrenched defender. When it doesn't work completely, I can usually still rally enough troops to win just at a higher cost than the normal assault would have been.
Lord Nap
10-24-2002, 22:35
I found out what the rout button does by accident during a game of STW. I thought it meant "rout the enemy", as in pursue and kill all fleeing enemy soldiers. So while I'm wiping out the enemy clan, I end up having my superior army turn and run away and I lose a great battle. The frustrating thing is that you can't "undo" a rout command.
DragonCat
10-24-2002, 22:40
Suppose you have more than 16 units. Suppose you have a crippled missle unit that has used up its ammo. Quickest way to get one of the new units on the board is to rout the missle unit- let them retire gracefully and then get on those nice elite cavalry.
Perfectly useful command. Those of you who use it to rout your general are obviously suffering from what my dad used to call "operator error."
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DragonCat
. . . on the prowl!
Boondock Saint
10-24-2002, 22:49
Dragon ... but ...
if a unit "routes" it negatively effects teh morale of surrouding units ... I understand yor point but using the withdraw option does the same thing without the unit routing ....
Plus if u route a unit there is a chance (from what I have seen) that they may rally themselves.
A unit that is "withdrawing" will not effect morale of other units, does NOT need to be rallied if u need to use them and makes for the border as fast as possible.
So really IMO "withdraw" is more useful then "route" for the situation you describe.
(see, I can post other things then spam)
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.com died ... so I am here ...
.com refugee 123321003
I promise not to curse anymore.
TomThumbKOP
10-24-2002, 22:51
I second BS er.. I mean I agree with BoondockSaint.
Dionysus9
10-24-2002, 22:55
THE ROUT BUTTON IS ESSENTIAL TO MOST OF MY WINS:
1) Troops that you ORDER to rout normally do not put rout penalties on your other troops. (I say normally, because there is an exception-- if, as they are following your rout order, they begin to rout because they are actually too scared to follow orders, you will get the route penalties);
2) You can get troops out of VERY stick positions VERY quickly and then rally them without losing a single man;
3) You can change a losing engagement into a winning one by drawing the enemy after the troops they "think" they routed, only to rally them as they reach your line-- counter-attack to pin the enemy persuers, then send in help from your line. Works like crazy.
4) Withdrawing is WAY TOO SLOW.
Once you learn how to use the rout button effectively, your level of play will increase dramatically. Believe me.
Routing troops move away from the enemy at the fastest possible speed. Faster than a fast march and faster than withdrawal. They move away from the enemy, not just back to their side of the map like a withdrawal.
I use the rout button most times I want to avoid a losing engagement. The most common use is to rout Cavalry that has just torn the hell out of some archers, but is getting rushed by spears or enemy cavalry. JUST BEFORE the spears hit them, I order a rout.
If its cav you are avoiding, you need to rout a little sooner since they've got a charge on you.
Now, there is some art to this. Dont try and order a rout if the unit has already been pummeled--they wont have enough morale to rally. 2 Valor Alan Cav's will rally fairly well down to half strength, but below that you are taking a risk. Might just be better to stand and fight.
Also, no point in routing infantry if it's getting charged by cavalry-- unless your front line is close enough the cav wont follow.
Nothing is more amusing than to slam 40 Alan Cav into the enemies archers, time and time again, only to rout before he can get his spears close enough. Sometimes I can manage to reap 100+ kills with one unit of Alans without losing more than 10 men. Heheh, in short, I LOVE THE ROUT BUTTON.
Learn to use it.
TomThumbKOP
10-24-2002, 22:57
I thought routing and withdrawing troops both moved at the same speed (run). Is this not the case?
Actually if you use the rout command there will not be a Moralepenalty.
Only the normal ones, such as the next unit not liking its flank is not protected anymore, and the unit itself getting enemies in the rear.
This means, don't use this if you need to reform the unit fast if it is a unit of shaky morale, then use a better unit.
Also forced routs seems to be easier to rally.
Lastly, the enemy won't always pursue units that withdraws, and withdrawing units might get forced back into the fight again, routed units don't. A great way to get knights out of a fight.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Boondock Saint
10-24-2002, 23:16
Ok, I stand corrected by those that use the route button.
Its a strategy that I dont utilize.
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.com died ... so I am here ...
.com refugee 123321003
I promise not to curse anymore.
Dionysus9
10-25-2002, 00:53
You should give it a try sometime when you are thinking--
"oh, crap, that unit is gonna get slammed--I guess I can kiss it goodbye"
Try it.
Dionysus9
10-25-2002, 01:45
Quote Originally posted by TomThumbKOP:
I thought routing and withdrawing troops both moved at the same speed (run). Is this not the case?[/QUOTE]
That is not the case. I believe routing troops move at their "charge" speed. Which is faster than a run.
Routing is the fastest way to get troops away from a bad situation. Not to mention it pisses off the enemy when you can save a full unit from certain destruction just by outrunning the persuers.
Thanks, everyone, especially Dionysus9. I had to go and do some actual work http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif so I can continue to feed my gaming addiction. I didn't realize that my question would provoke such a useful discussion.
I'm going to give that routing idea a try when I get home tonight. Now... can anyone answer this: under what specific conditions will the RALLY button become enabled?
How can I make a living playing MTW? Hmmm... maybe an Activision QA person! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Dionysus9
10-25-2002, 03:23
Rally button... Gah!
This one is a bit more mysterious.
From my experience, the rally button will become activated only when you have a routing unit selected, and then only when that unit is capable of being rallied.
When I have multiple routing units, or even if I just need to rally quickly, I just CTRL-A to select all units. Then I just keep tapping the R key until something happens. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Before you can understand when the rally icon becomes activated for any given routing unit you need to fully understand the morale system in general. This is quite a feat! The resident expert is Mizu Yuuki (Puzz3d), and he can help explain it to you. Look for archived explanations.
Basically, the rally icon seems like it becomes active when a units morale improves to a certain point-- obviously that point is above the "rout" point. A units morale is effected by a number of things-- the presence of friendly units around it, the number of men in the unit, the number of enemies around it, the presence of enemy guns/explosions/camels, being targeted by ranged units, having an enemy pursuing it, having enemy on flanks/rear, etc. etc.
There are a TON of factors. If you command a full unit of 4 Valor Alan Cavs to rout, they will most likely be able to rally in less than 10 seconds. If they are 0Valor Alan cavs at with only 10 men left in the unit, you will be lucky to get them to rally at all.
Anyway, it takes a while to get a feel for the morale system, and for when a unit be able to rally.
Good luck.
Lord Romulous
10-25-2002, 07:28
Quote Originally posted by GuyInAtlanta:
How can I make a living playing MTW? Hmmm... maybe an Activision QA person! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]
as a Activision QA you may make be able sit around all day, do nothing and get paid for it but you have to consider the risk of getting assasinated by the hordes of angry gamers who have to put up with the massive bugs you would have caught if you were doing your job probably.
Papa Bear!
10-25-2002, 08:02
BURN ACTIVISION BURN!
And hmm, I've not had a great deal of success using the rout button for escapes, (but certainly it must work better than just ording units away... for some reason I'm finding my orders not always followed... or at least not quickly, I can't imagine playing in multiplayer with those circumstances)(the only way I'm sure my units do what I say is to pause and tell them)
that all said, I've routed units off the battlefield to get new ones on also, I just march them past my current units to avoid any penalty, but as it seems there's never a penalty, perhaps I ought to try routing more often.
and uh, withdraw button? hmm, I need to investigate this...
starkhorn
10-25-2002, 13:54
Well I had never ever in a million years even considered using the ROUT button before.
Thanks to Dion for the hints as I've been in that situation many times where my cav is about to get flanked by spears and I couldn't withdraw......I'll try it and let you know.
is there any way you can steer your routing units? or do they just run away from the enemy and that is it?
Fearless
10-25-2002, 14:22
Well I have never used the rout button but after reading this topic I shall give it a try. The cavalary charging archers and routing sounds great as I usually just double click a withdrawl. Thanks for the tip!
Yes the rout command is usefull for pulling units out of a sticky situation.
I've used it a couple of times when I charge a catapult position with light cav - destroy the machines and fall back just as the spearmen charge home - works like a charm.
Maelstrom
10-25-2002, 15:15
Never used it, but often use Withdraw. Will perhaps give it a try.
As to rallying, a couple of factors that do seem to play a part are:
1) Being too close to the edge of the map - There seems to be a line that once your units cross there is no getting them back.
2) Being pursued - I don't think I have ever rallied a unit being actively pursued by the enemy.
Given that I am often backed up in a wood on the edge of a map, I tend to suffer from 1) a lot....
Quote Originally posted by Dionysus9:
THE ROUT BUTTON IS ESSENTIAL TO MOST OF MY WINS:
[/QUOTE]
Then you're retar.... I mean then you've got a strange way of playing the game.
Quote Originally posted by Rnold:
is there any way you can steer your routing units? or do they just run away from the enemy and that is it?[/QUOTE]
No you can't control them, but you can't really control withdrawing unit either. Yes you can break the withdrawing motion but then what.
Also routing the unit sends it away from the enemy, withdrawing send it back the way it came no regards as to where the enemy is.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Dionysus9
10-26-2002, 01:06
Quote Originally posted by JRock:
Then you're retar.... I mean then you've got a strange way of playing the game.
[/QUOTE]
Heh, actually, I did suffer a massive blow to the head at a very young age....
... being torn out of Zeus' side ain't no picknick either.
I was exaggerating a bit. What I should have said was "I use the rout button in almost every game." But I wanted to make the point that its not useless, so I exaggerated.
Derr humm dee do...
[This message has been edited by Dionysus9 (edited 10-25-2002).]
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