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querulously
10-25-2002, 22:24
I was putting up a few undocumented features on the offical board (pre hack) and I wonder if anyone on the Org would like to agree/shoot them down in flames:


If you have no land link with a nation you were at war with(for this purpose, a strait is not a link) , you can achieve automatic peace unless you continue a naval war even if you have just been at war for a very long time.

The Papacy never starts a war by an attack on a garrisoned province unless its forces outnumber all forces adjacent to the Papacy .

The movement shown on a ship is the tactical movement for determining order of action in auto-calc. Battles. Its movement on the map is one unless it is ocean capable, in which case it is two areas.

Better emissaries are more likely to succeed in marriage proposals. As time passes you will need better ones to achieve anything, so keep them alive. This is not easy on expert.

Do not complain that nations will not ally with you when you have sent strategic units /agents of various kinds through their provinces , frightened them, killed an agent of theirs, appeared too weak to them , annoyed their religion, etc. or done this to any of their ALLIES.

No limit to the number of Jihads you can launch , so you can sit there with 2 dozen awaiting to lose a province somewhere possibly deliberatedly! (and it must be yours,religion is irrelevant) and then launch them all.

Letting provinces rebel and then beating them is the easiest way of gaining extra money (other than going out and capturing kings and ransoming them).

Pope is designed to rebel in Rome quite frequently – remaining nations pop up again any time up during the lifetime of any heir who had not reached maturity at the time the nation fell. The percentage chance of a respawn in a province is calculated as if the loyalty was in the region of 20 percent less than that shown for normal rebellions (on normal).Sometimes a certain number of provinces are set to rebel and they merely pick the lowest , so many 200 loyalty provinces can go up in flames.If such a respawn happens then every province in the game is checked for this faction and may rebel.

Thus you can have a rebellion/respawn that triggers a rebellion or respawn of another nation in the same province for a possible many sided you versus normal/loyalist/loyalist/etc rebellion.

If a province rebels , all surrounding provinces are checked with a modifier to rebellion,chains are thus possible and over garrisoned low tax “firebreaks” are thus useful.

Plagues , famines, etc lower loyalty and cause rebellion.

A province in which there is a seige has low loyalty and spies will do excellent work here raising rebellions. Rebellions in seiged provinces are a major source of AI armies (hence their composition)

Some provinces are set with a loyalty reduction every turn and a lower than visible rebellion threshold, notably Scotland, Portugal.

Only the army size and tax effects on loyalty are included in the rating shown.

Thus differences in religion and distance to monarch effects are not shown.

A monarch in combat that year cannot always use his influence to reduce rebellion chances.

The type of rebellions include : Peasant, Bandit, Religious, Loyalist. Only the chance for Peasant is shown and highlighted by Shift Key. And yes, the AI nations suffer them too.

Size of a fortification effects rebellion chances. Garrison less than 100 men (not one unit) likewise.

Quality of troops is irrelevant when calculating loyalty changes per unit .

GA conditions change , generally towards building something in your main cultural homeland. This is not announced so you need to check.

Each arrow is calculated individually. Whilst arrow cam shows you the glory and genius of this, random numbers and chaos theory combine to send an occassional one in the wrong angle so it hits an adjacent archer. Hence you will notice friendly fire casualties if you are unlucky even to the extent that an archer unit can kill one of its own archers. Worse odds for low valour and wind.

If you have a level of building (of the single most appropriate type required for that unit,so one with spears for units with spears for example) above the level required to build a unit then the valour of the unit built should be increased by the level in which you exceed that needed (patch allowing).

Horse units cannot hide well in woods and generals not at all.

In addition to woods, there are broken terrain types (ressembling long grass) and other local features which have a similar effect.Not hedges though, these are just for show.

Roads on the map do enable faster movement.

Primitive cannon emplaced at the bottom of rising ground have an amusing firework effect firing into the ground immediately in front of them. Hills do not necessarily function as you think.

Archer units have different ranges-notably Trebizond archers are long ranged.

Assault a castle leaves it intact when taken, seiging it causes it to be reduced a level when taken.


The maximum 200 loyalty is a cap such that it is always possible for a province to rebel as it is calculated before various negative factors. (If provinces had no cap as in Shogun, there would be many that could never rebel due to size of garrison).

The AI king will retreat completely if he judges he would lose a battle , without garrisoning the castle. Thus by targetting the king for attack, you can his provinces without damage and much faster too, as you chase him around his diminishing kingdom.

hrvojej
10-26-2002, 00:00
Nice list. I have no idea about some things, but I'd like to comment on those that I do (think) I know. (Hm, I'dont seem to be able to send reply with all the quotes, so I'll send only the comments)

-No land border, and no ships in the same seazone means the automatic end of war.
-No idea
-True
-True
-Interesting. I knew about the top dog/underdog thing, but have never thought about the other things.
-I've had some fishy jihads, so I'm not quite sure what to think any more.......
-True
-I'm not sure what you mean by "set to rebel" and all that follows. Are you saying that the provinces are pre-set to rebel, regradless of the loyalty? I remeber seeing something that the cause of rebelions might be concieved many turns before they actually occur, although everything was fine after that particular turn, but cannot confirm it. I do know that I can alter which provinces rebel by reloading and changing some things (which might be an argument against the preset rebellions), as well as that the chance for rebellion is increased by having a border with rebel province, i.e. that it's a chain reaction of a sort.
-True
-True (hm, just said that above http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif )
-True
-True, but since you usually attack and besiege with a large army, it's not that prominent (unless you want to move the next turn, and leave only a small portion to sit out the siege).
-People that visit mods forum more frequently might have a better answer to this, but I seem to recall that all provinces have a rebellion modifiers, with some being higher than the other ones. I would also add Lithuania & Livonia as highly troublesome ones.
-I'm not so sure about this. Distance to the king is also shown, and I guess the action of enemy agents and everything else is as well.
-I don't know about the religion for sure, but distance to the monarch is definitively there. It might not be updated the same turn, and especially with the now bugged traffic light, but it's easily observable that it is there. For example, after the war that severs your sea routes breaks out, the loyalty drops.
-True. This is not updated as well.
-I think it is the rebelion chance for all kinds, not only for the peasant revolts. Yhe nature of the revolt will depend on the different factors, but the chance for all/any is shown.
-I am not sure about the fortification level (I guess it would be easy to check in the files to see whether there's any hapiness associated with them), but I thought that the loyalty is dependent on the number of men, and not on the number of units (100 peasants in a single unit = 50 peasants in 2 units)
-True.
-I don't know.
-Another interesting thing. I haven't paid attention to whether the friendly fire increases with wind and low valour. What does the wind do anyway, reduces the accuracy?
-After the p-word, this should be true
-I thought that horse units are simply harder to hide since they are bigger, and it's more difficult to find that perfect spot to hide them (I sometimes have problems finding it with infantry as well; sometimes they won't be hidden in the middle of the forest, sometimes a 100 men will hide behind a single tree http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif ). Generals cannot hide even if they are hashishin, and the only times that they won't show up on the minimap is when they are outside a visual range, either being too far or behind a hill.
-I know about hedges having no effect, but have no idea that there are other types of terrain that can be used for hiding apart from forests.
-Interesting, had no idea.
-The bouncing pattern will be greatly affected by the terrain as well. The projectile will bounce a few times on the flat terrain, not bounce at all if it hits an upward slope, and bounce a lot if it hits the downward slope (nicely done CA, btw http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif )
-True, We'll know all about missile stats after we get the log files.
-Not quite. The castle will lose an upgrade, not necessarily a level. For example, if you sit out the siege of a keep with a curtain wall upgrade, you will lose a curtain wall upgrade, but the keep will not be degraded to fort. However, a keep with no upgrades will be degraded to fort, motte and bailey.
-The size of the garrison still ensures that it doesn't go below 200% when it would normally.
-The king might reterat, but he may leave the rest of the army behind, so it's not safe to say that you'll win it cheaply.

[This message has been edited by hrvojej (edited 10-26-2002).]

Rocket_Boy
10-26-2002, 00:03
About the ships point. I'm pretty sure that I've had Carracks move about 5 or 6 sea lanes in one turn.

querulously
10-26-2002, 00:28
Thanks for the point by point - I should have numbered them !

Carracks-if they move 6 this makes them hugely useful. I admit I have not tested every ship type.Maybe others out there have seen rates of 3,4, or 5 ?

TomThumbKOP
10-26-2002, 01:07
I think the long carrack moves probably are a result of the large deep sea areas. It is possible to move from the bottom of the iberian peninsula up to england going through only two provinces if you can go deep sea.

favedave
10-26-2002, 14:05
Another feature: when you select a castle, presssing control-a will select ALL units in the castle.