View Full Version : But I don't want to kneel down for Allah
You what!?
DETENTION!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1031784/Schoolboys-punished-detention-refusing-kneel-pray-Allah.html
Public school in, where else, the UK. Well could have been Sweden as well. See this is why I don't like progressive people :dizzy2:
HoreTore
07-05-2008, 10:21
Hey, I was punished for not wanting to stand up and profess my christian faith in the army...
Adrian II
07-05-2008, 10:23
You what!?
DETENTION!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1031784/Schoolboys-punished-detention-refusing-kneel-pray-Allah.html
Public school in, where else, the UK. Well could have been Sweden as well. See this is why I don't like progressive people :dizzy2:1. It didn't happen, so why bother
2. It happens all the time, so why bother
3. Christians do it too, so nya nya
4. Oh, one UK teacher was out of her depth -> teh End of the Wrlod is Nigh!
That about sums it up, I guess. :coffeenews:
EDIT
No, that apparently does not sum it up. After reading Tribesman's post I should add one more silly response:
5. It's the children's own fault! Befehl ist Befehl!
What is wrong with people? :dizzy2: But the good news is that the teacher might find herself comfortable at a Madrasah™.
And why does it seem like the article was written by an angry teenager?
HoreTore
07-05-2008, 10:28
And why does it seem like the article was written by an angry teenager?
Because it's the daily mail....
And why does it seem like the article was written by an angry teenager?
That's the daily touch :beam:
Bad newspaper but that doesn't mean it isn't true, hope she gets sacked. Or better, shot. These multiculti guys are like salesguys you can't get rid of. Each day you send them packing, but the next day they are at your door again rubbing the greatest product in the world under your nose. You politily send him packing again, sorry not interested, and next day, there he is again.
Tribesman
07-05-2008, 11:30
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
This story is really doing the rounds , they were punished for refusing to pray , they were punished for being disrespectful to allah , they were punished for blah blah blah
These pupils and their parents signed up to a code of conduct .
Follow all intructions in class .
Co-operate fully with your teachers in class .
Do not disrupt any class .
Oh and take responsibilty for your actions .
So they broke three conditions they had agreed to , which kicked in the fourth condition so they cried boo hoo ....end of story
BTW I do like the obligatory I am not a racist I have an Indian friend comment in the Mail article , its also in the BNP article on this story .
BTW I do like the obligatory I am not a racist I have an Indian friend comment in the Mail article , its also in the BNP article on this story .
Me to, odd that he feels the need to apoligise if he doesn't like it when his kids have to pray to allah on a public school and get punnished if they have doubts.
InsaneApache
07-05-2008, 11:46
So you can confirm that it's true then Tribes. Thanks for that.
In other news....
Moslems are the neuvaux Jews! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7489392.stm)
Hmmm....perhaps not. After all, you can change your religion.
Tribesman
07-05-2008, 11:49
odd that he feels the need to apoligise if he doesn't like it when his kids have to pray to allah on a public school and get punnished if they have doubts.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
They didn't get punished for having doubts , they got punished for refusing to take part in a practical demonstration in class , they had agreed as had their parents on admittance to the school that they would follow all instructons in class .
What part of breaking an agreement and facing the consequences is it that you cannot understand ?
Has reading the word "Muslim" kicked in and activated your mental block again ?
cegorach
07-05-2008, 11:51
If it really happened some people should be reminded what
the freedom of belief is all about.
Which is BTW a bit more important than any signed contracts.
That's odd, in nazi germany you were allowed to critisize jews. I don't understand where he's getting at.
@Tribes, if someone did this over here he would be sacked, tarred and feathered.
English assassin
07-05-2008, 12:18
It's nonsense.
My boy studied passover at school. So far as I know he still has his foreskin.
The worst that can be said is that the lesson plan could perhaps have been clearer that they were learning about muslim religious practice rather than carrying it out. Although to be honest I suspect that was entirely clear, and the Daily Filth has conveniently forgotten to report that bit.
Never forget this was the paper that supported the Nazi party and complained bitterly about allowing Jewish refugees into Britain.
Tribesman
07-05-2008, 12:27
@Tribes, if someone did this over here he would be sacked, tarred and feathered.
But Fragony you keep telling us that you live in Dutchiestan where the multiculchies run everything and you have no choice but to comply with their evil designs , surely in Dutchiestan it would be the kids getting tarred and feathered , their parents having their tongues cut out and the teacher getting promotion to the highest office of education :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
So you can confirm that it's true then Tribes. Thanks for that.
Ah well Apache as for the truth it appears there is a lot more to it than meets the eye , where did this story come from ?
The mail was it ? hmmmm...they own the local paper too don't they so it must be the local paper:no:
But what do we see there ? a nice visit by a bunch of racists whose newspaper then just happens to run a story :yes:
So the truth of it is rather murky isn't it , I did wonder why the Mail didn't say who had written the "news" article:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Telepgraph has same story http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2247388/Schoolboys-disciplined-for-%27refusing-to-pray-to-Allah%27.html
And it isn't like the UK isn't absolutily insane.
@Tribes, we have our fair share of lunatics but the leftist church as a whole isn't nowhere as devout as in the UK and Sweden.
Tribesman
07-05-2008, 12:35
Telepgraph has same story
Hey Frag ....
This story is really doing the rounds its even being reported in Alaska:dizzy2:
Whats that thing they do called the google bomb or something , you know where they manipulate the system so that when you do a search on a subject some crackpot nazi website comes up as the #1 match for the story ?:inquisitive:
I am aware of the reputation of the Daily Mail but the Telegraph isn't so bad no? Let's just assume it's true for now, can't understand you have no problems with it, I wonder what your reaction would be if they had to hail Xenu, well I don't really wonder at all what your reaction would be but maybe you should. We all have a blind spot somewhere huh?
HoreTore
07-05-2008, 12:48
@Tribes, we have our fair share of lunatics but the leftist church as a whole isn't nowhere as devout as in the UK and Sweden.
Leftist church in Sweden? Are you confusing "leftist church" with "the majority of swedes"?
Leftist church in Sweden? Are you confusing "leftist church" with "the majority of swedes"?
If the majority of the swedes falls for that pc-crap :juggle2:
Tribesman
07-05-2008, 12:59
Let's just assume it's true for now, can't understand you have no problems with it
Well if they was making them actually pray to allah or any other thing then I would have a problem , but as they wasn't there is no problem at all .
The problem you have with this is that you are not getting upset at the actual incident , you are getting upset at what the incident is falsly being portrayed as .
Now forgive mefor not having your "sensibiities" but I tend to not get upset about a bunch of bollox that is portrayed as something that it isn't , I get pissed at the people who try and make it something that it isn't .
The problem you have with this is that you are not getting upset at the actual incident , you are getting upset at what the incident is falsly being portrayed as .
Fair enough, hope you are right. But let's not forget that we are talking the UK here, I can totally see this happening there.
KukriKhan
07-05-2008, 15:09
Wouldn't right about now be a good time for a UK Imam to chime in, objecting to an infidel teacher play-acting acts seen as sacred?
When they studied Roman Catholicism, did they serve wafers and wine?
Will there be bonfire-sex when paganism is covered?
InsaneApache
07-05-2008, 15:17
You're right. I'm bitter that we didn't 'role play' Baccanalia in RE. A Roman orgy or two might have prevented me from 'wagging it (http://plasmashield.wordpress.com/2008/05/23/its-not-called-wagging-its-called-repioritisational-time-shifting/)' in the fourth form. :embarassed:
HoreTore
07-05-2008, 15:23
I agree completely with IA. Especially when the memories of my 25 year old hottie religion teacher with a bum to die for comes flowing back.....
Come to think of it, I have an urgent appointment....somewhere....excuse me, I'll be back in 15 minutes.
Right now would be a good time to acknowledge that it hasn't been downplayed yet, it's ignored by the self-declared quality media so the dailymail story is true; "it's the dailymail after all". If they could shoot they would.
Adrian II
07-05-2008, 15:30
Right now would be a good time to acknowledge that it hasn't been downplayed yet, it's ignored by the self-declared quality media so the dailymail story is true; "it's the dailymail after all". If they could shoot they would.The Telegraph has had it for hours now.
The Telegraph has had it for hours now.
Was led to believe that it's a non-quality newpaper as well? Linked it hours ago. But tell me bubba you seem to become wiser with age lately, what do you make of it.
Adrian II
07-05-2008, 15:44
Was led to believe that it's a non-quality newpaper as well? Linked it hours ago. But tell me bubba you seem to become wiser with age lately, what do you make of it.I think that so-called spokespeople of Muslims and non-Muslims are playing the sensitivity game. Muslim spokesbeards are outraged over piggy bank ads, BNP spokesslapheads are outraged over 'obligatory praying to Allah'. It's an industry.
I blame television.
I think that so-called spokespeople of Muslims and non-Muslims are playing the sensitivity game. Muslim spokesbeards are outraged over piggy bank ads, BNP spokesslapheads are outraged over 'obligatory praying to Allah'. It's an industry.
I blame television.
hoho, none of those apply here, what we are seeing here is the much more dangerous multiculti-masochism that leads to self-islamisation. The craving for concensus and the rigidness of faith, the collaboration of those living the dream, it's a cancer that is starting to corrupt vital organs such as schools.
edit, you are focussing on the silly extremists while the middle ground is being swept from under our feet by perfectionists who think they are idealists, cultural relativism is the real danger.
PanzerJaeger
07-05-2008, 16:48
What the hell kind of lesson about islam forces the children to kneel down and pray, even if just simulation? And what kind of system forces children to take part?
No, that apparently does not sum it up. After reading Tribesman's post I should add one more silly response:
5. It's the children's own fault! Befehl ist Befehl!
Pathetic. It really shows how far he's willing to go.. :yes:
I guess according to tribesman, if the headmaster wanted to demonstrate with some of the pupils during sex-ed class, it would be their fault as they registered for school and agreed to be polite and do what they were told! What a logical breakdown... :dizzy2:
If I had been in their situation, I would have refused. I learned a little about Islam when I was in school and my knees never hit the ground for it.
HoreTore
07-05-2008, 17:14
What the hell kind of lesson about islam forces the children to kneel down and pray, even if just simulation? And what kind of system forces children to take part?
The same system that takes children to church to teach them about christianity, I'd guess...
Evil_Maniac From Mars
07-05-2008, 17:15
The same system that takes children to church to teach them about christianity, I'd guess...
That's the decision of the parents, and they're still not forcing the child to pray.
That's the decision of the parents, and they're still not forcing the child to pray.
Now a school forcing an islamic child to do christian prayers, watch everyone who thinks this is ok grow disgusted by such a blatant breach of individual liberty.
I wish having a black butler would become fashionable again. Bored white people, not good.
HoreTore
07-05-2008, 17:36
That's the decision of the parents, and they're still not forcing the child to pray.
No.... Some schools use the same manner of teaching ass this school, when they teach about christianity...
EDIT: I still remember having to sing "Du som metter liten fugl"(roughly "you who feed the small bird", a norwegian psalm or something) before lunch in my first years of school. And that was mandatory.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
This story is really doing the rounds , they were punished for refusing to pray , they were punished for being disrespectful to allah , they were punished for blah blah blah
These pupils and their parents signed up to a code of conduct .
Follow all intructions in class .
Co-operate fully with your teachers in class .
Do not disrupt any class .
Oh and take responsibilty for your actions .
So they broke three conditions they had agreed to , which kicked in the fourth condition so they cried boo hoo ....end of story
BTW I do like the obligatory I am not a racist I have an Indian friend comment in the Mail article , its also in the BNP article on this story .
the situation is idiocy on the teachers part, she was wrong to use her influence as a teacher to coerce her students into doing something they clearly felt incompatible with their beliefs, and doubly wrong to try and punish the children for not doing what they were told rather than stepping back from the first glaring error in her conduct.
Ironside
07-05-2008, 18:43
Leftist church in Sweden? Are you confusing "leftist church" with "the majority of swedes"?
Fragony seems to take his Swedish news from gates of vienna, who belongs to those groups that reports everything that says what they already knew (irrelevant if true or not) and ignores the rest.
When they studied Roman Catholicism, did they serve wafers and wine?
We had it, admittably it was on the manditory study-visit of the local church. Alchohol-free wine though, tasted crap. We also had bible studies, mainly from a kid version that didn't contain the uhm "darker" parts amoung other things. Had pictures though.
Never had to pray.
If it happened as told it certainly sounds over the top, although it would be needed to know how the teacher teached to other religions to know if he was simply generally going over the top with all religions or Fragony got a reason for going "The Muslims are coming and the PC crowd is their fifth column"... Personally I suspect that they will be exactly as effective as the original fifth column.
Fragony seems to take his Swedish news from gates of vienna, who belongs to those groups that reports everything that says what they already knew (irrelevant if true or not) and ignores the rest.
You do see a lot about sweden there. Used to be vikings. Now don't inviting someone to your party is enough to get them bouncing against eachother in apologetic terror. Sweden is the biblebelt of political correctness an absolute joke for a country. And hot chicks with disproportionatily fat necks but nobody's perfect.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
07-05-2008, 19:16
No.... Some schools use the same manner of teaching ass this school, when they teach about christianity...
First of all, source, second of all, are these schools, by chance, Catholic schools? You know, where if you're not Catholic and you go there, it's your own choice?
Now a school forcing an islamic child to do christian prayers, watch everyone who thinks this is ok grow disgusted by such a blatant breach of individual liberty.
Right on. No Muslim student should be forced to pray in the Christian manner either, and I get the feeling HoreTore would be a lot more worked up if this was the case.
HoreTore
07-05-2008, 19:20
First of all, source, second of all, are these schools, by chance, Catholic schools? You know, where if you're not Catholic and you go there, it's your own choice?
The one I went to, Mjøndalen Skole, for example. The source would be, well, me. It's the public school, and there are no alternatives to it.
Also, our minister of education was sacked in part because of the controversy when he said that praying in school was unacceptable...
Right on. No Muslim student should be forced to pray in the Christian manner either, and I get the feeling HoreTore would be a lot more worked up if this was the case.
Bah, I get upset whenever I see worshiping of any kind in school. However, I don't believe that this is a sign of the apocalypse or some sort of conspiracy to overthrow society...
Bah, I get upset whenever I see worshiping of any kind in school. However, I don't believe that this is a sign of the apocalypse or some sort of conspiracy to overthrow society...
Kids having to pray to allah in a public school? I think scandinavia and the uk should be given up anyway nothing worth keeping anymore but geez.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
07-05-2008, 19:54
The one I went to, Mjøndalen Skole, for example. The source would be, well, me. It's the public school, and there are no alternatives to it.
Anything recent, to suggest this is happening now in Britain?
HoreTore
07-05-2008, 19:59
Anything recent, to suggest this is happening now in Britain?
I'm norwegian; I care not for the barbarians living on some tiny island...
Adrian II
07-05-2008, 20:34
Kids having to pray to allah in a public school?Oh please... :wall:
The kids had to pretend to 'pray' as part of a lesson about religion, not as part of a plan to convert them. The teacher handled it wrong, obviously. I think that is all there was to it - except that in today's poisoned atmosphere such incidents are blown out of all proportion.
Oh please... :wall:
The kids had to pretend to 'pray' as part of a lesson about religion
What....for..... Only because the difficulty in folding the islam under our wings collides with the multicultural dream and those that believe can't accept that, so they try to alter the reality in which it has to settle.
Adrian II
07-05-2008, 21:05
What....for..... Why not? Role play helps you understand social phenomena. I did it at my school. Kids all over the world do it.
There is no need to get hysterical over it, unless you subscribe to Fragony's and Louis' hysterical notions that Islam is taking over Europe and the European Commission is its main vehicle. That's tinfoil hat territory, gentlemen.
Why not? Role play helps you understand social phenomena. I did it at my school. Kids all over the world do it.
There is no need to get hysterical over it, unless you subscribe to Fragony's and Louis' hysterical notions that Islam is taking over Europe and the European Commission is its main vehicle. That's tinfoil hat territory, gentlemen.
No it is not tin foil hat territory it is very much real, islam isn't taking over europe people like you are giving it away without a fight. And you can't even see it and that amazes me to no end. Every value is negotionable for you, that is why there will be nothing left.
English assassin
07-05-2008, 21:18
Can we have a small reality check?
Requiring children to receive religious instruction (NB, not to learn about religion) is contrary to Art 2 Protocol 1 of the ECHR.
So, seriously, anyone who was MADE to pray at school: see a lawyer. (I mean really made to pray, as in, your parents said they didn't want that, and the school forced you to do it).
Anyone?
No. Somehow, I thought not.
Oh, and Frag, the most recent case on it is Zengin v Turkey, where it was mandatory instruction in Islam that was ruled unlawful. So its not one rule for Muslims and another for the rest.
Read and enjoy: http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/viewhbkm.asp?hudoc-en&action=html&table=F69A27FD8FB86142BF01C1166DEA398649&key=65103&highlight=
Evil_Maniac From Mars
07-05-2008, 21:22
Oh, and Frag, the most recent case on it is Zengin v Turkey, where it was mandatory instruction in Islam that was ruled unlawful. So its not one rule for Muslims and another for the rest.
The key part of that statement is highlighted. Turkey is part of Christian Europe since when?
PanzerJaeger
07-05-2008, 21:23
Why not? Role play helps you understand social phenomena. I did it at my school. Kids all over the world do it.
Its quite strange to force children to kneel and pray against their will, roleplay or not. I went to private Catholic school in America and even they cannot force you to do anything religious that you were uncomfortable with. Maybe its an American thing..
Adrian II
07-05-2008, 21:38
Its quite strange to force children to kneel and pray against their will, roleplay or not. I went to private Catholic school in America and even they cannot force you to do anything religious that you were uncomfortable with. Maybe its an American thing..Why would that be typically American? France for instance is very insistant on this sort of liberty, more so than the United States. It wouldn't be tolerated in The Neds either.
The UK teacher just handled it badly, she should not have forced the kids. Her mistake is not an indictment of role play, Islam, or religious education.
Every now and then the same sort of hullabaloo arises when teachers want to role-play the nazi era with their pupils. Some kids are cast in nazi roles, others in those of Jews. It is only a matter of time before some stoopid parent who doesn't get it alarms the authorities because "my kid is indoctrinated with nazism!".
The only good answer is https://img355.imageshack.us/img355/9929/bilsmileyqq2.gif (https://imageshack.us)
Adrian II
07-05-2008, 21:42
islam isn't taking over europe people like you are giving it away without a fight. And you can't even see it and that amazes me to no end. Every value is negotionable for you, that is why there will be nothing left.I think you are confusing me with someone else.
Can we have a small reality check?
Requiring children to receive religious instruction (NB, not to learn about religion) is contrary to Art 2 Protocol 1 of the ECHR.
So, seriously, anyone who was MADE to pray at school: see a lawyer. (I mean really made to pray, as in, your parents said they didn't want that, and the school forced you to do it).
Anyone?
No. Somehow, I thought not.
Oh, and Frag, the most recent case on it is Zengin v Turkey, where it was mandatory instruction in Islam that was ruled unlawful. So its not one rule for Muslims and another for the rest.
Read and enjoy: http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/viewhbkm.asp?hudoc-en&action=html&table=F69A27FD8FB86142BF01C1166DEA398649&key=65103&highlight=
Do I have to remind you that Turkey has a fiercily secular tradition? Maybe we should welcome them in the EU after so our politicans don't feel so burdened by common sense. You are english and I need a reality check? Head of the justice department just declared his love for the implementation of the sharia in the brittish justice sytem, you missed that?
InsaneApache
07-05-2008, 21:59
Yeah! I'm stoned as well. :egypt:
Louis VI the Fat
07-05-2008, 22:32
I went to private Catholic school in America and even they cannot force you to do anything They can't? In Catholic schools over here they force their pupils to bend over five times a day.
Adrian probably went to a Catholic school too, he still remembers how good Catholic pupils answer their teacher's requests for some roleplaying Catholic School style:
The only good answer is https://img355.imageshack.us/img355/9929/bilsmileyqq2.gif (https://imageshack.us)
Well, I would have either refused or completely ridiculed it but then we never had such stupid demonstrations anyway, it's not like we had no idea what kneeling is. :dizzy2:
That said I also refused to do this or that for various reason but the only real punishment was usually a worse grade.
PanzerJaeger
07-06-2008, 01:27
PantieJaeger
~:pissed:
A typo I'm sure.. :lam:
Anyway, in both my elementary and high schools (two different Catholic schools), forced participation wasn't allowed.
RabidGibbon
07-06-2008, 02:33
This whole story reads to me like a teacher decided to introduce a novel, and a little misguided, concept of hands on learning, the class clowns saw an opportunity to prance about and make a scene, the teacher lost control and started handing out detentions.
Its a total non-story, but I do know an RE teacher and I'll ask her if forced conversions to Islam are part of the national curriculum. Incidentally, I was made to close my eyes, lower my head and clasp my hands whilst saying amen for thirteen years of my life, and it didn't make a Christian out of me, If I'd refused I most likely would have got detention, and it certainly wouldn't have made the national papers - but then again, back in the day when you got detention you tried to keep it secret from your parents, rather than running home and getting them to commission you a human rights lawyer.
In the first sentence of the article the words pray to Allah are put in parentheses indicating, at least to my mind, that praying to Allah isn't what is going on. If some kids refused to do so then the teachers response should have been “fair enough, sit it out”. However as I pointed out above, the teacher seems to have lost it – we don't know the whole story, these two kids could have been real swine, who needled the teacher at every opportunity. I know my class at school always saw the RE teachers as easy marks, and driving them into a frenzy was a sort of mass participation sport. After all, which parent cares if their kid is falling behind in RE, whilst doing well in Maths, Science and English (or whatever heathen language foreigners might be taught?).
Its all just a massive storm in a tea cup.
Technical note: A public school in the UK is one that you pay to send your kiddies to (above and beyond taxation)* so that they can learn the proper accent and form the cliques early on that are necessary to the correct governance of these islands. I'm not sure what the schools that the proletariat swarm to are called. Primary for the nippers and Secondary once you hit 11 – 12? Grammar schools needed you to pass a test, but I think they got done away with universally a long time ago.
Off Topic by far my favorite quote in the linked article is this one:
The Article
"I haven't got a problem with them teaching my child other religions and a small amount of information doesn't do any harm.”
If I ever have any kids to send to school, I hope it will be with the thought “I hope they don't learn enough information to do them any harm...”
*Although if you can afford to send your brat to “public” school, you can probably afford a tax lawyer who can cut your tax bill to that of your 16th century forefather, whilst claiming retrospective compensation for the trade monopolies your family lost when the Dutch performed their coup d'etat in 1688.
Tribesman
07-06-2008, 04:46
This topic is hilarious , so many of the usual suspects getting their panties all twisted up with their outrage over a total non-story :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I guess according to tribesman, if the headmaster wanted to demonstrate with some of the pupils during sex-ed class, it would be their fault as they registered for school and agreed to be polite and do what they were told! What a logical breakdown...:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:logical breakdown:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:Panzer you have suffered a complete breakdown of your logic circuit there:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Errrrrr..... lets see if I was tribesman if the headmaster wanted to do something illegal it would be entirely in accordance with the school policy and code of conduct that the teachers pupils and parents had agreed too :yes:
Yes Panzer your logic really needs fixing .
Samurai Waki
07-06-2008, 08:11
The only time I ever prayed to Mecca was in protest of taking my first communion at age eight. I may have had my quarrels with the almighty, but god help me if I disobeyed my Parents. I couldn't watch TV or play video games for two weeks...
.
Technical note: A public school in the UK is one that you pay to send your kiddies to (above and beyond taxation)* so that they can learn the proper accent and form the cliques early on that are necessary to the correct governance of these islands. I'm not sure what the schools that the proletariat swarm to are called. Primary for the nippers and Secondary once you hit 11 – 12? Grammar schools needed you to pass a test, but I think they got done away with universally a long time ago.
i am a product of the grammar school system, and there are still about 150 left in Great Britain.
there are loads currently in northern ireland, which is why the educational standards are so high, but in the interests of equality-of-outcome they are being banished as they produce children too clever to fit in with the regimented masses of illiterate twits that are considered the benchmark of british achievement.
Tribesman
07-06-2008, 11:44
i am a product of the grammar school system
Yes quite .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKzi_JlrdEY:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Pannonian
07-06-2008, 12:02
The only time I ever prayed to Mecca was in protest of taking my first communion at age eight. I may have had my quarrels with the almighty, but god help me if I disobeyed my Parents. I couldn't watch TV or play video games for two weeks...
You can face the almighty on even terms, but your Parents outnumber you 2-1, and are thus to be feared.
English assassin
07-06-2008, 13:52
Head of the justice department just declared his love for the implementation of the sharia in the brittish justice sytem, you missed that?
err, yes, I did miss that. That's because it didn't happen.
I remember the Archbishop of Canterbury saying he thought it would be an idea if some disputes between muslims could be resolved having regard to Sharia. This caused the predictable :daisy:-storm, all of which was entirely misplaced because:
1. Jews have had religious courts in the UK for ages without the world ending, and
2. Anyone can already have any contractual dispute they like resolved in accordance with any set of laws they like, provided they agree, and have a passing familiarity with the Arbitration Act, (here's how the Beth Din does it: http://www.theus.org.uk/the_united_synagogue/the_london_beth_din/litigation/), and
3 Rowan Williams is a bearded idiot, and nothing to do with the British Justice system.
Frag, old chum, I'm active in secularist societies, have no love for religion full stop, and certainly no love for religion in any form in schools, but this story is about one badly planned lesson, not a hidden plan to have us all worshipping Allah. What I am saying is I am entirely with your prejudices on this one, but the facts just don't support you.
Tribesman
07-06-2008, 14:34
err, yes, I did miss that. That's because it didn't happen.
Come on EA you can understand Frags mistake , it was widely reported as that , the fact that it isn't that at all shouldn't stand in the way of his phobia .
Just like when Williams made his speech the claims about what he said were not about what he said at all .
But tell me as I am quite thick . This new thing where two parties in civil disputes can agree to arbitration through a third party in accordance with British law (well English/Welsh law) , how comes they invented it recently and sneaked it up on the people without anyone knowing anything about it ?:inquisitive:
I mean it must be a very new thing or the outrage would have been going on for years and the media wouldn't bother with centuries old news would they .
the fact
The fact that isn't true, gimme.
At EA, wanted to post it the the weird thread but you can only do that to Lemur so many times. It is indeed just a stupid teacher but still everyone feels the need to defend it, I think the stupidity of this pretty much needs no flowers to impress. But we all have a blind spot somewhere.
Don't we tribes.
Tribesman
07-06-2008, 15:10
The fact that isn't true, gimme.
The fact Frag is that you are getting your panties all twisted over nothing.
You claimed
Head of the justice department just declared his love for the implementation of the sharia in the brittish justice sytem, you missed that?
But what he said was ....
It is possible in this country for those who are entering into a contractual agreement to agree that the agreement shall be governed by a law other than English law. Those who, in this country, are in dispute as to their respective rights are free to subject that dispute to the mediation of a chosen person, or to agree that the dispute shall be resolved by a chosen arbitrator or arbitrators.
Now you only have to read 1:1:a&b to know that , its a long standing piece of legislation that was last amended 12 years ago without any fuss whatsoever .
Now you can go further into it if you want but each step you take just weakens your arguement which was extremely weak to the point of non existant in the first place .:yes:
The only issue about the whole subject is that nowadays if anyone even remotely mentions sharia or Islam in relation to a subject you get the Muslims under the bed crowd shouting crazy stuff without the faintest idea what they are shouting about .
Ah we aren't talking anymore about kids having to pray to allah. As for that jurist thing, talking and doing are two different things and he can implement nothing, but doesn't exactly make a secret about his disposition, sharia law, why not. So quit on why do england is obsessed with muslims.
oh, and before you say I am obsessed, I am not the one suggesting police dogs should wear special socks when they are looking for explosives or drugs on enriched grounds.
And why that is silly, from a muslim no less http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_snd-west.html
Tribesman
07-06-2008, 16:40
Ah we aren't talking anymore about kids having to pray to allah.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
we never were talking about kids having to pray , its a non event , nonsense , complete crap , it never happened , no one had to pray to anything :dizzy2: We were talking about a bollox "news" story
As for that jurist thing, talking and doing are two different things and he can implement nothing, but doesn't exactly make a secret about his disposition, sharia law, why not. :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: blue moomins law , why not ? As long as it isn't against the law and is carried out in accordance with the British laws ?
Yet again another non-story . We were not talking about his disposition . We were talking about how you writing ....
Head of the justice department just declared his love for the implementation of the sharia in the brittish justice sytem, you missed that? ...is a perfect example of complete nonsense .
That's the fun thing ahout newspapers Tribes, if they lie they get charged and they have to pull it back. Especially a newspaper like the daily mail, especially a newspaper like the daily mail especially in a country like the UK. That makes them the most reliable newspaper of the UK, because they would have been absolutily destroyed otherwise.
English assassin
07-06-2008, 17:18
This new thing where two parties in civil disputes can agree to arbitration through a third party in accordance with British law (well English/Welsh law) , how comes they invented it recently and sneaked it up on the people without anyone knowing anything about it ?
I mean it must be a very new thing or the outrage would have been going on for years and the media wouldn't bother with centuries old news would they
I like your style sir :laugh4: A quick google does indeed reveal that the first Arbitration Act was passed in 1889. A further google reveals that Scott v Avery, the case which established that you could oust the jurisidiction of the courts with an arbitration clause, so that all the court may do is enforce the award, (which may have been arrived at in accordance with the law of Mongolia if the parties so chose) was decided in 1865.
So, only 140 years old or so.
If we didn't have this dangerously enlightened approach to people deciding how to settle their own disputes we would lose a lot of international arbitration work from London, and a lot of highly paid lawyers would lose their jobs, which would be an absolute tragedy as I am sure we all agree. :clown:
If we didn't have this dangerously enlightened approach to people deciding how to settle their own disputes
If you see it like that it's pure beauty to me. But that kinda ends when it involves somebody else not being able to decide to do it his way, like kidshaving to pray to allah and get detention when they refuse for example, and much much more.
Tribesman
07-06-2008, 18:04
Honestly Frag , you ain't that dumb are ya ?
One last time .
No one had to pray , no one got detention for not praying , end of story.
And as for that law , no one can be forced into anything , its a position two people can choose to take if they both agree to it .
It isn't hard to understand , or is it ?
That's the fun thing ahout newspapers Tribes, if they lie they get charged and they have to pull it back. :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
they ran the story friday Frag , if the parties involved decide to take action nothing will happen till monday, then after that it will be a matter of weeks if not months upon which point you will get a small one line item on about page 27 .:dizzy2:
But probably they won't bother as they may go on the basis of only an idiot would believe the BNP or Mail so it isn't really worth the effort
It isn't hard to understand , or is it ?
No it's not hard to understand you say it didn't happen, so gimme something that proves it didn't happen.
Adrian II
07-06-2008, 18:23
Fragony, I can't believe that you support the forced deportation of all Muslim immigrants, including women and children.
Fragony, I can't believe that you support the forced deportation of all Muslim immigrants, including women and children.
que?
English assassin
07-06-2008, 18:40
Fragony, I can't believe that you support the forced deportation of all Muslim immigrants, including women and children.
Sir, I also like your style.
Frag, his point is that if we are going to sound off about things no one said, where will it all end?
Its relativism gone mad, I tells you.
It is indeed relativism gone bad, that is the point I keep making. But you are relativating relativism, I am just relativating.
English assassin
07-06-2008, 18:54
I have deconstructed your posts and detect a deep-seated attraction to authoritarian and aribitrary belief systems with the strength to impose their will on others regardless of the others wishes.
In short, Frag, you are a muslim. The more you deny it the clearer it becomes. :laugh4:
I have deconstructed your posts and detect a deep-seated attraction to authoritarian and aribitrary belief systems with the strength to impose their will on others regardless of the others wishes.
In short, Frag, you are a muslim. The more you deny it the clearer it becomes. :laugh4:
Uh what, well no quite the contrary, you sure you saw that in me?
Yes quite .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKzi_JlrdEY:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
:laugh4:
Tribesman
07-06-2008, 19:20
Yeah its just the charachter that springs to mind whenever someone mentions grammar school , not of course suggesting furunculus that you would write a rubber cheque like Crawfords character
quite, and thank you. :beam:
CountArach
07-07-2008, 02:36
My Primary school (Which is Public) made me say a prayer every week. That is far worse than this situation where the children did not have to pray.
LittleGrizzly
07-07-2008, 03:57
My state school made me pray when i was under 11 (until secondary school)
Devastatin Dave
07-07-2008, 05:31
The only good answer is https://img355.imageshack.us/img355/9929/bilsmileyqq2.gif (https://imageshack.us)
By Muhammed's goat-reeking beard, you've got a cute ass.:yes:
Adrian II
07-07-2008, 11:01
By Muhammed's goat-reeking beard, you've got a cute ass.:yes:Thanks, but my six is covered already and my twelve is loaded. In other words, forget it sweetheart.
My Primary school (Which is Public) made me say a prayer every week. That is far worse than this situation where the children did not have to pray.
Well they did have to pray. But maybe this is indeed not so terrible after all, but with all that multi-pushy you get worked up over little things because it are so many little things. I attended a christian school by the way, never had to pray, never noticed it was a christian school in the first place.
Goofball
07-07-2008, 22:46
Okay, the details of the article are pretty sketchy, so there's really not enough to form on opinion on the actions of the teacher. Let me say: if their version of events is true and the little darlings were truly punished because they respectfully and non-disruptively declined to kneel and pray to Allah (praised be his name), then I agree with all of the outrage coming from the .org's usual suspects.
However, let me just throw this out there for you. Since we don't have the teacher's version of events yet, might I submit that there is a distinct possibility that her story might go something like this: "I gave the little buggers detention not because they refused to take part in the demonstration prayer, but because they were being loud, disruptive, and making funny accents and fart noises in the back of the classroom while the rest of the class was trying to learn."
And is it then possible that when the little darlings were being taken to task by their parents for getting in trouble at school, the kids sold it to their doting parents as a religious freedom issue, rather than simply one of being an idiot in the classroom?
I'm just throwing that out there, from personal experience. When I was twelve, that was just the kind of behaviour I was capable of and quite often carried out.
LittleGrizzly
07-07-2008, 22:56
And is it then possible that when the little darlings were being taken to task by their parents for getting in trouble at school, the kids sold it to their doting parents as a religious freedom issue, rather than simply one of being an idiot in the classroom?
The first rule of breaking the news your in trouble to your parents is lie and blame someone else.... worked like a charm!
InsaneApache
07-08-2008, 02:07
I stopped lying to my parents when I was able to beat them in a fight. Last year as it happens.
KukriKhan
07-08-2008, 03:26
I stopped lying to my parents when I was able to beat them in a fight. Last year as it happens.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: :inhale: :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I quit lying to Bob, the step-dad, a couple years back, but only 'cause I could finally out-run him, he in a wheel-chair and all.
Telepgraph has same story http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2247388/Schoolboys-disciplined-for-%27refusing-to-pray-to-Allah%27.html
but the leftist church as a whole isn't nowhere as devout as in the UK and Sweden.
I needed a good laugh.
Where are the days that telling your parents that you got some sort of punishment at school gained you an additional punishment that was more severe than the one you got at school? And the question whether the punishment you got at school was just or not was completely irrelevant.
Now they write articles in newspapers about something as ordinary as two students getting detention in secondary school :wall:
Society where not being a spoiled brat will be considered abnormal, here we come...
I needed a good laugh.
Try having fun
psssssst EA, was referring to this earlier; http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=298
The Muslim Council of Britain warmly welcomes the Lord Chief Justice's valuable contribution to the discussion on the role of Islam and Muslims in Britain's legal traditions. In a scholarly speech outlining the development of the equality laws in the English legal system Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers spoke of the "widespread misunderstanding" of the nature of Sharia law.
"There is no reason why Sharia principles, or any other religious code, should not be the basis for mediation or other forms of alternative dispute resolution [with the understanding] that any sanctions for a failure to comply with the agreed terms of mediation would be drawn from the Laws of England and Wales."
Dogs with pads, not liking curry is racism england is nuts. Sweden will have to work hard for that dhimmi-award.
Where are the days that telling your parents that you got some sort of punishment at school gained you an additional punishment that was more severe than the one you got at school?
Alas, having friends and family who are teachers, I am assured that all too often the parents' attitude is "how dare your school punish my little darlings" rather than "how dare you get yourself in trouble".
Alas, having friends and family who are teachers, I am assured that all too often the parents' attitude is "how dare your school punish my little darlings" rather than "how dare you get yourself in trouble".
Yep. My mother in law, who is a teacher, sometimes complains about parents contacting a lawyer because the precious child got a (usually well-deserved) punishment/did not pass his exam(s).
Sad really :no:
There should be a law against stupidity.
Adrian II
07-08-2008, 11:41
I stopped lying to my parents when I was able to beat them in a fight. Last year as it happens.I stopped lying to my parents after they beat the crap out of me. Too long ago to remember.
Try having fun
psssssst EA, was referring to this earlier; http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=298
The Muslim Council of Britain warmly welcomes the Lord Chief Justice's valuable contribution to the discussion on the role of Islam and Muslims in Britain's legal traditions. In a scholarly speech outlining the development of the equality laws in the English legal system Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers spoke of the "widespread misunderstanding" of the nature of Sharia law.
"There is no reason why Sharia principles, or any other religious code, should not be the basis for mediation or other forms of alternative dispute resolution [with the understanding] that any sanctions for a failure to comply with the agreed terms of mediation would be drawn from the Laws of England and Wales."
Dogs with pads, not liking curry is racism england is nuts. Sweden will have to work hard for that dhimmi-award.
So the Muslim Council of Britain is now running Sweden?
So the Muslim Council of Britain is now running Sweden?
Pancy's with gaping rectums craving for a salafist are running Sweden, Sweden and the UK are dhimmi-society's, homo-servus they deserve nothing but mockery, giving hatebeards what they want even beofre they realise that they demand it theirselves, disgusting.
Pancy's with gaping rectums craving for a salafist are running Sweden, Sweden and the UK are dhimmi-society's, homo-servus they deserve nothing but mockery, giving hatebeards what they want even beofre they realise that they demand it theirselves, disgusting.
Right, you ever been to Sweden?
Right, you ever been to Sweden?
Yep, sure have.
atheotes
07-08-2008, 16:12
I stopped lying to my parents after they beat the crap out of me. Too long ago to remember.
I still lie to my parents... but only to make them happy :laugh4:
Tribesman
07-08-2008, 16:16
psssssst EA, was referring to this earlier
Yes and ?
OMG its shocking , where there is this law that two parties can agree to go to arbitration to settle their dispute there is no reason why they cannot agree to choose sharia as the basis for the settlement .
Bloody hell call out the thought police this idea must be stopped at once .:dizzy2:
So then Frag what you want is that two people can choose absolutely anything as they basis they want to sette their dispute in accordance with the laws of the country so long as it is something that doesn't relate to islam .
Or is it perhaps that you don't like the whole law idea and want Britain to abolish its ancient codes and traditions ?:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
not liking curry is racism england is nuts:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
What planet are you on ?
Please do tell Frag , what is widely accepted as Britains most popular national dish in Britain .
Is it perhaps a chicken thingy with a masala , its tikka so its pukka mate:inquisitive:
Well bugger me sideways Britains national dish is a curry and every beer fuelled yob that doesn't end the friday night with a curry must now be called a racist :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Come down to planet earth sometime Frag , there is this little thing called gravity here that might keep you on the ground instead of floating around on your flights of fantasy all the time .
HoreTore
07-08-2008, 16:20
Pancy's with gaping rectums craving for a salafist are running Sweden, Sweden and the UK are dhimmi-society's, homo-servus they deserve nothing but mockery, giving hatebeards what they want even beofre they realise that they demand it theirselves, disgusting.
.....and here I was thinking that the conservatives were running Sweden atm...
Yes and ?
OMG its shocking , where there is this law that two parties can agree to go to arbitration to settle their dispute there is no reason why they cannot agree to choose sharia as the basis for the settlement .
Bloody hell call out the thought police this idea must be stopped at once .:dizzy2:
So why does he feel the need to speak up on the subject as a Lord Chief Justice. Now I know that if you want to make it into the higher echelons brittish society believing isn't enough, you have to know that there is only one culture and it's multi but geez stick to the job.
HoreTore
07-08-2008, 17:06
Bah, only idiots care about culture anyway.
The less we have of it, the better.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
07-08-2008, 17:11
What planet are you on ?
Please do tell Frag , what is widely accepted as Britains most popular national dish in Britain .
Is it perhaps a chicken thingy with a masala , its tikka so its pukka mate:inquisitive:
Well bugger me sideways Britains national dish is a curry and every beer fuelled yob that doesn't end the friday night with a curry must now be called a racist :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Come down to planet earth sometime Frag , there is this little thing called gravity here that might keep you on the ground instead of floating around on your flights of fantasy all the time .
You haven't seen the article yet, have you?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/education/2261307/Toddlers-who-dislike-spicy-food-racist%2C-say-report.html
You haven't seen the article yet, have you?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/education/2261307/Toddlers-who-dislike-spicy-food-racist%2C-say-report.html
Ah earth, hi. I couldn't make this up tribes you give me way too much credit.
Geoffrey S
07-08-2008, 17:34
Bah, only idiots care about culture anyway.
The less we have of it, the better.
Sounds familiar. ~;)
Tribesman
07-08-2008, 19:50
You haven't seen the article yet, have you?
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Have you read the publication this article is supposed to be about?
So don't be silly Mars until you do the obvious thing like looking at the report the newspaper says it is writing about .
You wouldn't want to go getting your panties all twisted over nothing like Frag now would ya:idea2:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
07-08-2008, 19:54
Have you read the publication this article is supposed to be about?
So don't be silly Mars until you do the obvious thing like looking at the report the newspaper says it is writing about .
You wouldn't want to go getting your panties all twisted over nothing like Frag now would ya:idea2:
I love how you question the source when it's something you don't like, even if it's true. :rolleyes:
Tribesman
07-08-2008, 20:01
I love how you question the source when it's something you don't like, even if it's true.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I question all sources no matter what the story , and no matter if I like the story or not I nearly always find that what is being told in the paper is not what the actual story is at the source they claim to be using .
Try it sometime , It may save you getting all het up over a complete non-event .:yes:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
07-08-2008, 20:04
I question all sources no matter what the story
So maybe that's why you never post sources. :idea2:
and no matter if I like the story or not I nearly always find that what is being told in the paper is not what the actual story is at the source they claim to be using .
If you want to read the 366 page report and prove the article wrong, go ahead. But until then, the article stands.
Try it sometime , It may save you getting all het up over a complete non-event .:yes:
Actually, you are. If I was cashing in on a word per trolling effort you would be the biggest bubba I ever reeled in.
Tribesman
07-08-2008, 20:21
If you want to read the 366 page report and prove the article wrong, go ahead. But until then, the article stands.
Have you had a look down the back of the sofa ? your brain appears to be missing , perhaps it slipped down there .
Lets see , you thought I hadn't read the article . You were wrong
You say the article is consistant with the report and I must be wrong to say it isn't
Yet you havn't even read the bloody thing .:dizzy2:
Sorry Mars but honestly how obviously wrong do you think you can be with such little effort ?
The funny thing is by your own writing you have shown that you havn't got the fainest idea what the article is on about and have the front to say that other people only question things when they want to :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Its like a repeat of the war crimes topic where you insist people are wrong without any idea at all of what it is you are talking about , you really should have learnt by now .:thumbsdown:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
07-08-2008, 20:26
Dear Lord, Tribsey, lay off the alcohol. It's for your own good. I'm not presuming you haven't read the article, but you haven't read the report, and frankly, I don't have the time to go through every single three hundred and sixty-six page report I see. The newspapers aren't always unreliable, you know. You haven't read the report either, so who are you to say the article is unreliable?
Oh, and the war crimes topic where the source you brought up proved that it was, in fact, a war crime? Anyhow...
We aren't angry Tribeman just a little dissapointed. From now on, even is wiskey uneven is beer, think you can make it to the end of the month?
Tribesman
07-08-2008, 20:45
while you are looking for your brain have a good rummage there Mars , as you might find your memory has slipped under the cushion too .:yes:
You struck unlucky on this one big time , perhaps yoyu should have commented on the subject before yesterday:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Eh what are the chances of that , chance circumstances come together just in time for this crap:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Eh what are the chances of that , chance circumstances come together just in time for this crap:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Well at a certain moment there was this sperm an egg and ultimatily you excuse me for apreciating such coincidence while being you. No.
edit:sup page 5
English assassin
07-08-2008, 23:20
Try having fun
psssssst EA, was referring to this earlier; http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=298
The Muslim Council of Britain warmly welcomes the Lord Chief Justice's valuable contribution to the discussion on the role of Islam and Muslims in Britain's legal traditions. In a scholarly speech outlining the development of the equality laws in the English legal system Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers spoke of the "widespread misunderstanding" of the nature of Sharia law.
"There is no reason why Sharia principles, or any other religious code, should not be the basis for mediation or other forms of alternative dispute resolution [with the understanding] that any sanctions for a failure to comply with the agreed terms of mediation would be drawn from the Laws of England and Wales."
Dogs with pads, not liking curry is racism england is nuts. Sweden will have to work hard for that dhimmi-award.
Yes, my bad, the LCJ did join in after Archbishop Beard. Apologies. I stand corrected
I do not stand corrected that there is nothing whatsoever wrong, alarming, or new in the bit I have emboldened. If two parties by agreement want to have their dispute mediated in accordance with Sharia I am at a loss as to why the law should stop them.
It's a question of freedom of choice.
This was a rather interesting programme last night: http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/dispatches/it+shouldnt+happen+to+a+muslim/2314592 Amongst the points was a quick survey of Muslim scare stories in the British media, including the Sun's front page splash "Muslim hate mob attacks home for Our Brave Boys" (not according to the local police it didn't, they said they had no idea who did it) and "Thousands of patients at risk from Muslim doctors" (Muslim women doctors apparently refuse to wash their arms up to the elbows as it is immodest, except that the hospitals in question said that this had never happened.)
Then in one rather telling bit they showed punters headlines like "Doctors say they fear blacks" or "Jews demand special treatment" and everyone said it was outrageous, except that, you guessed it, they weren't real headlines, they had taken real headlines and replaced the word Muslim with other minority groups.
In short: the media lies about muslims.
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