Strange jump in ranks for general and Varagian shield.

[Kraxis]

Ok, I don't want to start two threads with two relatively minor issues.
You can thank me later Shiro! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

So there I was, just having started another Early Byzantine campaign. I managed to keep rebellions out the first year, but then the inevitable happened in Naples. The general there had been boosted to Rank 2 by the title from Bulgaria.

The battle itself was one of the most amusing battles in a long time for me. I won, killing 650 rebels and lost 58 of my own. Not bad at all considering I only had the Byz Inf and Naphtas. Of course I executed all the prisoners I took during the battle to get the Scant Mercy and released all rebels to get the +10% happiness I so much needed for Naples.
But then I got the strange message, my general had been promoted... To Rank 5!!!
Not bad at all for a Rank 2 general. Ok, he had gotten Skilled Defender and Skilled Last Stand, but since only Skilled Defender shows up when not in battle the general got two whole Ranks from one battle... I thought you could only gain one win at a time and getting to another Rank you would have to win a certain amount of wins. But clearly you can just win a very impressive victory to get several wins.

Sadly I had a Bandit uprising the next round, but I managed to buy home teh general and one other soldier (the others had fought to the death killing lots of enemies).


Now to the other point... Varangians and their shields.

Are they not just cool or what? Fighting with the shields on the back. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif A very nice little detail.

But the point is really, that the shield is of little value in a fight.
When I saw it the first time I thought that it was cool as they were now protected a little from flanking and rear attacks, as well as arrows. But then it struck me, it was only the guys actually fighting that had the shield slung onto the back... So should a rear attack happen the guys there would be just as vulnerable as always and it would not help much to provide archerfire as well (though it would be somewhat better than with normal troops).
While on the other hand the shields don't do any good in the melee (unless the enemy gang up on a guy).
And one last thing, do the shields protect the Varangians when subject to a charge????

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

[Rocket_Boy]

I noticed this today with my danish general who was a field defence specialist. He had no attack bonuses and I noticed that when I moved him to attack another province, he mysteriously dropped 3 command stars. I have another general who has five stars when sitting on his arse but seven when I move him onto another province to attack it.

It was a bit odd at first but I'm sure this is the explaination (well 90% sure).

[solypsist]

strange generals: In playing the English, any general named Plantagenerian (or something like that) automatically has high-end skills and starts off with no bad virtues/vices.
this is off the subject, but not by too much

[Kraxis]

Well if he has a Virtue that gives him Command on the defence, those stars will be present as long as he stays in a loyal province, but if you attack he will not get the bonus, thus the loss of stars.

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

[sarcastro]

Solypsist, as far as English generals named Plantaganet goes:

In my English campaign, all of my princes who don't inherit the throne (that is, the uncles of the new king) become Lord Plantaganet when the new king takes the throne. So in my campaign at least, yes all Plantaganet generals are great, but it's just because they're all ex-heirs and I've got a good bloodline going.

I have one in particualar who's my best general. I call him The Butcher of Milan. 7 command, 9 dread, and of course the Butcher vice, plus a host of other nasties: Natural Born Killer, Merciless, etc. Funny thing is...he's also Affable http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[hrvojej]

Kraxis,
Since you bought back the general, I guess thhe answer to these questions should resolve the weird thing of jumping ranks.

1) How many stars did he have on defence afterward?
2) How many stars did he have on attack afterward?
3) What were his V&Vs exactly afterward?


About Varangians, who knows, maybe the whole unit is counted as "fighting" (although I doubt it, since everything else is individual, such as rank bonuses, etc.).

[Wart]

Tarrak
Yeah, i'm begining to think that the rank increase system for generals is not as straight forward as it was in STW! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

One of my heirs with some nice virtues, started off as rank 3, which is a bit poor, so I gave him a large stack of obsolete troops which I was otherwise gonna sack, and sent him off to conquer some rebel provinces.
Now if the progression works as it did in STW i would have expected that after 4 battles at R3, he would be promoted to R4. However, it's been at least 6 battles now & he's still R3. As i say though, his troops were fairly cack, & the rebels quite good, so I made sure he was outnumbering them by at least 2-1.

I had been begining to suspect that the relative size of the two forces in the battle effect how much a victory is worth in terms of rank increase. Your tale seems to add some weight to that theory! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Wart (edited 10-26-2002).]

[Kraxis]

Quote Originally posted by hrvojej:
Kraxis,
Since you bought back the general, I guess thhe answer to these questions should resolve the weird thing of jumping ranks.

1) How many stars did he have on defence afterward?
2) How many stars did he have on attack afterward?
3) What were his V&Vs exactly afterward?


About Varangians, who knows, maybe the whole unit is counted as "fighting" (although I doubt it, since everything else is individual, such as rank bonuses, etc.).[/QUOTE]

And I'm back here... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Well, he actually fell to Rank 4, but no Vice such as Good Runner or Doubtful Courage, I really like that as he put up a great fight, only running when down to 2 guys. I love him I think http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Where are my daughters when I finally have a great husband for them.

Back to subject... I remember that during the battle he was only Rank 5, not Rank 6 (as he should have been if the Skilled Last Stand was not visible on the map), and perhaps coming to a province with more troops that was removed, as 300 troops and somewhere to run to is not the ideal situations for a Last Stand to happen. But that leaves a lot still. How did he just get another rank, when he would have to win several battles to get to Rank 5 (and at the very least win two battles to get to Rank 3 if the Vices are nout counted in this)?
I would really like to get a dev answer to this.

The Varangians... It is very clear in combat that only the front guys have the shield on the back. And to be honest about them, the Varangians are powerful, but not costefficient. V2 AUM will win/draw against V0 Varangians but are 100 florins cheaper. After the patch this will be reversed, but the Varangians are not 100 florins better still.
Even Byz Inf are better at V2 (3/4/4/3/4) (charge/melee/def/armour/Morale) and not to forget the Large shield to the front adding +2 to def and armour, but most importantly you get 100 of them, this you get for 394. The Varangians are at V0 (4/4/5/4/6) for 550, so in a fight head on for both the Varangins have the advantage of 1 charge, 1 in def (-1 in def if counting shields), 1 Armour (-1 counting the shield), 2 Morale, -40 men and AP (which will add 1 to attack in this fight after the patch).

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!