Horse archers - How to deal with them?

[Che Roriniho]

Hello there. I have recently embarked on a love affair with Baktria, but there is one small problem with our relationship - those damned horse archers. The onnly way I can do anything about them is buy getting a couple of lucky vollys wth my persian archers. before they get out of range, usually still poundding me with arows. Is there any more efficient ways than this?

[Hax]

Slingers.

Other horse-archers also help, especially the Baktrioi Hippotoxotai. Against the more heavily armored horse-archers I really, really advise slingers (not the sphendonetai though, the regionals, they have way more ammo).

I've also heard that the Indian archer units are pretty good against them, outranging them. Still, I prefer slingers.

[Olaf The Great]

Hello there. I have recently embarked on a love affair with Baktria, but there is one small problem with our relationship - those damned horse archers. The onnly way I can do anything about them is buy getting a couple of lucky vollys wth my persian archers. before they get out of range, usually still poundding me with arows. Is there any more efficient ways than this?

Indian and Subeshi Archers have long enough range bows to shoot down Horse archers.
The best against them, however, is Syrian archers and Parsig thanvare.

Also, heavily armoured horse arches(like the Baktrian Hippotoxotai) and slingers help...to :P

[mucky305]

Ballista! Can you say horsie on a STEEK!

[Che Roriniho]

Slingers.

Other horse-archers also help, especially the Baktrioi Hippotoxotai. Against the more heavily armored horse-archers I really, really advise slingers (not the sphendonetai though, the regionals, they have way more ammo).

I've also heard that the Indian archer units are pretty good against them, outranging them. Still, I prefer slingers.

Right. Slingers. Any particular reason? or is it just because I can't get camels? :shame:

But yeh, thanks. As discussed in 'Surprisingly Good Units', slingers rock.

[Hax]

Because slingers have:

1) More ammo than most (if not all archers)
2) AP
3) Longer range than most archers.

[Che Roriniho]

Because slingers have:

1) More ammo than most (if not all archers)
2) AP
3) Longer range than most archers.

Ok, thanks very much. Here's a balloon for your efforts: :balloon2:

[Hax]

Put it in the car.

[Swordmaster]

Because slingers have:

1) More ammo than most (if not all archers)
2) AP
3) Longer range than most archers.

I thought horse archers outrange most slingers?

[Hax]

They don't, AFAIK. Maybe the same range, but even then.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

My advice on fighting HA: Retreat to a walled city with lots of foot archers. The steppes don't have any resources worth invading them for, so when I'm at war with them, I just stay on the defensive.

If you have to face them in the open field, use cheap archers and slingers in loose formation. Also, make sure to keep a few spearmen handy.

[Fondor_Yards]

I've also heard that the Indian archer units are pretty good against them, outranging them. Still, I prefer slingers.

Actually, Indian Longbows, despite whatever their description says, only have 153 range. HA have 187 and up. Which means Ha will dominate them something fierce.

[Zing]

When I played Baktria I did not find horse archers to be very difficult at all. I was surprised by it myself. Perhaps it was because of AI stupidity, but I won every single battle against ha.
Usualy I had phalanx in front, geting them under fire of HA. right behind the phalanx I had 3 units of archers, with couple of my own horse archers by the sides. If I could I would take higher ground - this is crucial in fighting with any kind of missile.
If horse archers have more men then I do, I would stand my ground, haras them with my own HA and archers until I ran out of arrows or until they charged. Because I usualy reacted quite quickly in the beginning of the battle and would take higher ground asap, by the time HA and kataphracts charge me they would be down to 70-60% of their initial strength. After that all relies on my phalanx, and mellee qualities of my archers if phalanx are not enough. This way I was able to crash a 2 full stack army of Saka kataphracts and HA led by 7-star general.
If there was less HA then there is of my army, then I would try to corner them with my phalanx, while my archers shoot behind their backs.
Also, I found things that do not work. Trying to simply outshoot HA with your archers is painful - you ought to lose quite a lot of men, unless you take a higher ground or have gigantic amount of archers. Persuing HA with cavalry does not work either - you will get shot to pieces. Never turn your back on HA - phalanx are pretty much invincible from the frontal fire, but will die quickly if fired in the back.
Often AI just shoots and runs away from you. If you employ couple of HA of your own, while making them run in cantabrian circle, you can masacre enemy HA while suffering only couple of HA casualties of your own. Same thing with enemy archers. Cantabrian circle is tremendously effective against missiles.
In short, my strategy was to build a balanced army of phalanx, support infantry, archers and HA - this way I was able to crush any enemy army, HA or not, with ease.

[Che Roriniho]

okay, thanks guys!
AI want to invade Saka at some point mainly for the regional units. Plus, it will allow me to build up my army for when I face AS at some point.

[Woreczko]

On a strategical level, don`t bother to fight HA armies in the field. Take their cities instead. For this purpose thureophoroi are your friend. Spear armed, decently armoured and cheap, they can chew through anything, nomads will throw against you in melee. Just get to the town square and wait till the timer runs out. Thureophoroi are also much more flexible than phalanxes, when you need to react quickly to a flank charge and whatnot - in my anti-nomad armies they take the role of main infantry unit along with lots of foot archers.

[Che Roriniho]

okay, thanks ahgain. now I'm having problems withthose damned selucids. I have 1 army, and that is dealing ith a rebal army that's standing over the road connecting Baktria and Prophtasia. Also having money problems.

EDIT: Bastards are ust about to take Baktra. beause I can't afford much of an army, but I have FM's pouring out of my ears (I have about 10, and only 4 provinces [soon to be 3])All I have defending it is 2 faction members. should be fun, unless I can REALLY pull something out the bag EDIT: The bag has been pulled!)

[Hax]

Actually, Indian Longbows, despite whatever their description says, only have 153 range. HA have 187 and up. Which means Ha will dominate them something fierce.

That might very well be true, I've never used them myself, just rumours I heard. The internet is a dark place...

[Che Roriniho]

Just consulted my Unitcards collection, and it's true that HA wildly outrange anything else (I would have thought Elephants would be able to outrange them, but apparantly not...) And Baktria can't recruuit Indian Longbowmen. Still, I can get Toxotoi Syranikoi, which outrange them both. The longest firing ones though, are the scythian and sarmatian foot archers, both of which have a range of 198. Don't actually know what the longest ranged non-artillery piece in the game is. The longest I could find was the Early Yuezhi Nobles, with 202.

[Fondor_Yards]

That might very well be true, I've never used them myself, just rumours I heard. The internet is a dark place...

Heh even other normal eastern archers dominate them, the lowest any other has is 165 range. However, I found if you use them as garrison troops they will destroy everything since enemy archer's can't really hit them, they get the range boost from the walls, and their AP meele means even elites have trouble with them.


And Baktria can't recruuit Indian Longbowmen.

Yes they can, their ingame name is Hindus Patiyodha, they can get them in all 3 indian provinces.

[Poulp']

like many others;
slingers.
I should add, slingers on a higher ground than the horse archers you're dealing with.

And you should remember not to play on the enemy's terms; don't fight HA on the steppes, fight them in the streets, streets of their cities. Phalanxes are sitting ducks for HA on the plains, the reverse is true; 2 or phalanxes working in concert become a deadly trap for HA.

[Irishmafia2020]

The cheap answer is Subeshi Archers (available from level one regional barracks to North of Baktra). they possess 198 range compared to 187 for HA's. You can get Subeshi archers at that Alexandria to the North of Baktra, and also to the city in the Valley north of Kophen. These archers are meant to even your odds against the HA hordes. They outrange the HAs, and you can put them directly behind a couple of phalanxes for their own protection. You can even place them behind archer-spearmen, who can handle an unarmored early HA charge. I recommend that you capture a city that produces Subeshi archers, and then match them up with three cheap native phalanx units, and throw in four Persian archer spearmen to use on the flanks. Use 4-5 family members as a cavalry element, and you have the army that you can use to capture the three cities to the north of Baktra (Marakanda, Alexandria, and that one across the river...). Then you can build up Alexandria's MIC level and they will produce good regional and factional troops that you can use to defend the north while you're real army gets busy against the AS.

To summarize - Subeshi archers are cheap and outrange HA's, Persian archer spearmen are very cheap, and they can take a charge, plus shoot back while in range. Your family members all have bad@ss bodyguard cavalry. That is your anti-HA army!

[satalexton]

don't even bother fighting them, chase them away with decent protected cavalry and go straight at their settlements.

[Che Roriniho]

okay, thanks. I'm currently starving out the isolated Selucids in Alexandria Epithema or w/e it's called, as I think only one unit outranges thm in the game. I've just checked and yeh, I can recruit Indian Longbowmen, but it doesn't say that on the Unit cards as it''s a regional only thing.

[NeoSpartan]

I don't know about you fellas, but in MP slingers VS HAs was NOT a good match. My slingers got their A** kicked. btw I was using Celtic slingers.

I suggest you get your own HAs.

[hoom]

I've actually found heavy infantry (particularly spear types) spread very wide in a single line to be quite effective (if a bit cheap).
Advance until they are backed up against the map edge & have to fight.
With a bit of coordination, two units of infantry can shepherd a HA unit into a horse-meat sandwich with relatively few losses. (repeat till done)

Problems happen if you let them sneak round the edges of the line and/or if they have a bunch of heavy cav that you can't match.

I wouldn't try it against a full stack of HAs though :no:
For them its a matter of attrition battles with your own HA & heavy cav & limited infantry support.

[Grriffon]

I'm playing Sweboz and currently advancing East instead of getting into the huge mess that is Aedui, Arveni, and Roma fighting each other to the West. The problem is now I'm running into horse archers. They curbstomp my poor little Celtic archers/slingers, and take huge chunks off any melee unit I send at them. I don't have much in the way of light cavalry recruited, but the few times I've tried them, it's an even trade at best. Any ideas for Sweboz vs. Horse Archers?

Thanks.

[Havok.]

@Grriffon: if you're fighting rebel cities, exauste their cities, if you're dealing with stacks of Sarmatians, try to fight defensivly (cant spell goddamnit ><) stay inside well protected cities and hope for the best, since i cant see a fair battle between almost unarmored mob of blond guys against tons of fast, effective sarmatians HA

[Grriffon]

See a stack of HA's, run behind a wall. Got it :laugh4:

[Havok.]

See a stack of HA's, run behind a wall. Got it :laugh4:

Thats right! :clown:

[satalexton]

No, u shoot plungers tied with ropes at them, that way they cant run away xD

[jhhowell]

Something else that might work would be ambushes, terrain permitting (which I believe it generally does, anywhere Sweboz normally care about). Lining up on either side of a narrow column of HA should let you pin a bunch into melee right away, probably with a javelin volley to soften them up.

Haven't tried it, but at the very least it would make an interesting battle! ~:)