Forgotten war crime - Volhynia 1943

[KrooK]

I'm angry on our government, our "great" president and our "noble" parliament.

Yesterday was 65th anniversary of terrible war crime against Poland - genocide of Volhynia.
Before ww2 on that territory (today western Ukraine) Poles and Ukrainians lived together.
During ww2 Ukrainians supported Germans and fought against Russians.
Into 1943 when Russians started recapturing territories Ukrainians decided to clear territory of Volhynia.
They did not fight with polish resistance but concentrated on murdering polish civilians.
God one know how many Poles died - from 60 to 450 thousands. They were being killed into extremely cruel way - unknows into this part of Europe since XVIIth century. Far more cruel than anything that SS done. I have seen much into my life but I still can't even read about crimes done there.

Now politically corrected "f..." are trying to false history. They don't speak "genocide", they don't support people who want celebrate victims memory when same time they .... support festival of ukrainian minority in Poland. Into 65th anniversary!!!!!

Ukrainian government is doing same. Criminals from UPA commands whom commit that crime are called heroes and freedom fighters. If you ask me I hate communists but I agree that sending captured members of UPA do Russian GULAG camps was good.

I think that if Poland and Ukraine want normal neighbourship, war crime can't be forgotten and called "non-existing". And criminals should be punished.

[Tribesman]

For those who havn't a clue what Krook is ranting about , at the annual memorial service the President said that countries cannot be blamed for atrocities that are committed by individuals and groups .
I mean if nowadays Ukraine was to be blamed for the massacres of Poles in Volhynia then Poland must be blamed for the massacre of Ukrainians in Volhynia , both must be blamesd for the massacre of the ethnic germans and both for the massacre of the Jews .
So lets have a big
POLAND:poland::poland::poland::poland::poland:
(no offense intended towards normal rational Polish people)

[KrooK]

Sorry Tribesman

...I mean that its a shame that polish and ukrainian autorities are trying to hide truth under carpet due to political correction.

[Tribesman]

Sorry Krook but what is this political correctness you are on about , the only problem seems to be crazy nationalists on both sides blocking moves because they are insisting that their countries are they only ones who were right and the others are the only ones who were wrong .
Well apart from that little issue the agency had when by releasing files it embarrased people who were agents of the secret police .

[KrooK]

I'm talking that into 1943 Ukrainian nationalists murdered hundreds thousands of Poles.
Now polish government don't want take part into celebrating their memory.
Not accusing Ukraine (or Ukrainians as a nation) of anything but just celebrating memory of victims.

I'm angry because our president is supporting festival of ukrainian culture while he is not officially supporting scientifical conference about genocide into 1943 - both are planned on same day. I'm angry because Ukrainian minority in Poland can't find better day to make their festival than anniversary of massive killing of Poles done by Ukrainians.

I'm angry because some of Ukrainian politicians (for example big part of self government of city Lwow - Lviv) call war criminals from UPA (Ukrainian Rising Army) - one of SS formations - heroes and freedom fighters. To clear situation - even western allies called UPA war criminals and send their captured members to USSR.

I'm most angry when I'm hering something like "let's don't talk about that genocide because we can damage our relations with Ukraine". Our relations with Ukraine are ok now but not talking about truth can only damage them. If Poland want really good neighbourship with Ukraine, there should be only truth between our countries.

In the end I have small request to you.
Before you reply to every my post calling me polish nationalist - read my post first. You seem not to do that. Do you think that calling polish victims of UPA murderers (like you done into previous post) you are doing well.

[Tribesman]

Krook I didn't call Polish victims of Ukranian nationalist murderers , I called the polish fighters who slaughtered Ukranian civilians murderers .
You really seem confused , what are these SS units you are on about ?
The Ukranian rising certainly wasn't one , it fought the Germans Russian and Poles as well as other Ukranians .
The only Ukranians handed over to the Russians were those who fled from Slovakia into Austria and those that were captured fighting on the Western front , they were not handed over as war criminals they were handed over as part a contraversial deal with the Russians , unless of course you mean the ones British intelligence and the OSS were working with who were betrayed by a Soviet agent in the British establishment .

[KrooK]

The only Ukranians handed over to the Russians were those who fled from Slovakia into Austria
Yes - exactly they. They were UPA members.
Siczowa Division was Ukrainian division fighting on German side. As most "non German" units it was part of SS.


"I called the polish fighters who slaughtered Ukranian civilians murderers."
Murdering civilians by members of Country Army resulted into Field Tribunal. Ukrainian bands were ordered to kill civilians by their HQ. Another Difference is that when Poles were killing Ukrainians (mostly for supporting UPA - Ukrainians started killing civilians and people were simply afraid that if they won't do anything, Ukrainians kill them like they were doing into neighbourhood) it was absolutely against orders and was punished if being done by partizans. When Ukrainians were killing Poles, it was planned and organised by their leadership.

[Tribesman]

Yes - exactly they. They were UPA members.

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
So the people who were stationed in France and Slovakia were really slaughtering villagers in the Ukraine at the time .:dizzy2:

Murdering civilians by members of Country Army resulted into Field Tribunal.
Is that why the Polish commission is investigating war crimes by the Polish Home Army ?

[KrooK]

Tribesman sorry but now I completely don't understand you.

Please explain what do you mean by same time.
UPA ran to west when Red Army recaptured Ukraine and took control over it (guerrilla war finished long after 9.05.1945)
UPA bands after genocide on Volhynia, then into Eastern Lesser Poland (at least 100.000 victims), stayed there and fought against Red Army, then divided itself. Some of bandits ran through Slovakia to Western Allies - their were sent back. Same time part of UPA did not ran and keep fighting until 1947 when Poles and Russians finished with them once for ever.

By Siczowa Division I mean 14th SS Grenadier Division (count from Ukrainians) - after destroying this division by Red Army their remainings joined UPA.

Here you have article into Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army#UPA_and_Poles
However part about polish crimes is funny because completely depends on books wrote by todays Ukrainian nationalist.


Is that why the Polish commission is investigating war crimes by the Polish Home Army ?
ehh- what commision? any source

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I think Krook might be talking about the UNA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_National_Army), which was I guess formed in part by/from an SS Division. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_Galizien_(1st_Ukrainian))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wartime_Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia

[Tribesman]

However part about polish crimes is funny because completely depends on books wrote by todays Ukrainian nationalist.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Errr ...no its part of the investigation by the IPN , they have a wealth of material on it , if you forget you have linked to theior site before but claimed it didn't have any English pages .:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Oh I get it now , thats why I couln't find the Sikzowa dibvision , you mean the Galacia division which at the time of the massacres you talk of was only just being formed , its perevious incarnation being the Ukranian construction battalions . Funny that though as yo said the allies handed them over as war criminals to the Russians, strange that they didn't eh , the only concrete stuff they could come up with was the allegation that one company from the division was allocated to an area where a massacre takes place , but it seems according to German records that due to the fact that they were not trained properly at that time the local commander to whom they were allocated to didn't use them .
Forget this forgotten war crimes nonsense and try and get a few basics together first , at least if you knew something then you could have the excuse of forgetting little bits of it instead of just trying to wing it with complete ballderdash :thumbsdown:

[KrooK]

And you shut your face and do not turn the cat to its tail.
There were genocide, I don't know which exactly unit commit it but it definitely was
Ukrainian bands. Now even Ukrainians admit that (however they still claim that bands were freedom fighters). Todays attempts to change victims into criminals are just a falsification of history and make me sick. And sick makes me your behavior - you don't like me and you don't like Poles.
I don't know why - maybe due to situation into Ireland. If you want you can not like Poles - its hard to like someone who showed your nation what means honest work. But never try to false history.

And imagine I will never forget that crime. I saw pictures of victims. Typical peasant family - father, mother 6 daughters and 2 sons. All of them killed soon later into extremely cruel way.
I will never forget that picture. And imagine - no faqq like you will force me to forget.

And yes = I linked into Morel Topic. However you called it fake or something like that.
What changed your ming.

And if IPN is making investigation - no problem. They are good historicians and generally don't make mistakes.

And one more - you are one of reasons why I don't see future for EU. I like EU but I don't see future for it.

[Tribesman]

And sick makes me your behavior - you don't like me and you don't like Poles.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
I have no problem with Poles whatsoever or any other nationality race or creed , I do have a problem with crazy nationalist anti semites whose ignorance and warped version of history means they spout piles of tripe on a regular basis .

[KrooK]

And I'm having problems with political correctness idiots who see only political correction.
I hope you meet alibaba and 40 unshaved robbers.

[CBR]

When in doubt, cut it out.

*closed*