Ok, I quit trading cause it sucked...

[Satyr]

I have no boats, I am the richest in the world, and I have the largest army. Boats suck when you are at war with 2 factions at once so I killed them all.

[solypsist]

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif
yeah this is a productive thread

[cart6566]

Actually, it's nice to know that it is possible. I have been considering giving trade a low priority in my HRE game, because I am mostly landlocked to begin with anyway. Problem is, I need a massive standing army for all my borders. Here's hoping...

[ToranagaSama]

Quote Originally posted by cart6566:
Actually, it's nice to know that it is possible. I have been considering giving trade a low priority in my HRE game, because I am mostly landlocked to begin with anyway. Problem is, I need a massive standing army for all my borders. Here's hoping...[/QUOTE]

I don't think her post suggest that its "possible", just that she's about to lose!

"I am the richest in the world, and I have the largest army"

This is an oh so deceiving messge.

Look for her next post...."Rebellions Are a Bug!!" http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[Satyr]

Rebellions are non-existant. The Elmos are a pain though. The Byz are about dead.

All my goveners are crooked but with very high taxes it doesn't matter much. Just kidding.

Actually I was trading but the byz and elmo boats were killing mine faster than I could build them and I gave up. Almost time for a new game anyway. I always lose patience in the end and start a new campaign that is less work and more fun.

[Hakonarson]

I do that too - start a new game when it all gets a bit complicated - especialy because disposable income falls so much when you take over the world!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

I think it was on the now semi-defunct .com site that there was a discussion on trade - and how/why it falls when you conquer everyone in sight.

IIRC one "historical" solution was to note that some trade goods do not originate in a provice, but that province is just the final point on a longer trade route from off map.

Eg especially the mid-eastern provinces a lot of their trade is from India, S/E Asia & China - the trade good represented by these places is just the final point on the external trade routes.

So those trade goods should be able to be taxed regardless of the size of your empire - indeed the larger your empire the more they are worth as you get more monopoly benefits by controling the demand as well as the supply!!

alas I suspect that isn't going to happen soon.

[Sword_Monkey]

That's why economic factors are as important as military factors in picking your fights. In my current campaign I'm down to the Byzantines, Polish, HRE, Sicilians and the Russians. The Byz have a huge fleet of ships, I certainly don't want to fight with them because I'll lose half of the ports I trade with and my sea routes on top of that. The Scicilians also have a significant number of ships and ports I'm drawing income from. The HRE is eternally at war with me through no aggression on my part, so that's not an issue http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif The Polish, eh, not really a significant trading partner, but they're Catholic and I am trying to stay communicated for more than a year with my new king. Ah, but the Russians - huge land mass in their control and only *one* port and two longships, hmm.... who should I attack?

So long as I can put the Byzantines off to last, the drop in income from trade will never harm me. It's all a matter of realising economics = military strength.

[TheViking]

In my first campain i didnt know anything about trading. It wasnt untill the campain ended that i understood that i had to have ships to ship my armys and not only ports like in STW and MI.

It went very well anyway. But since i got the knowledge on trading i cant b without it. I even tried several times to finish another campain without the trade. But i havent succeded with it again.

So it is possible to win a campain without trading.

Try it it gives u a new challenge.

Oh btw heres a tip:
If ur in a sea war pull out all of ur ships from the enemys seazones. The war ends if u dont have boarding territorys and ships in the same seazones


------------------
There I see my father.
There I see my mother, my sisters and brothers.
There I see my line of ancestors back to the beginning.
They call on me and ask me to take my place with them in the halls of Valhalla where the brave may live forever.

[This message has been edited by TheViking (edited 10-17-2002).]

[aX1s]

Im playing france early normal and this is my first campaign and i havent been trading for the past 200 years (simply cuz i didnt know you had to have a chain of boats) .

But i found that i still could have large armies + garrisons without no trade at all. $$$ mostly comes from WORLD DOMINATION, pillaging and ransoms.

right now i finally figured out trade but iam attacking the stoopid elmoheads and my next goal is the byz and the norvos therefore killing off ALL my trade routes in both flanders and venice, so its probably better off to start tading early in game if your goal is militaristic...

But as always the more $$$ the better

[ToranagaSama]

Sometimes, you don't realize how important trading is til you near, what you preceive to be, the end of the campaign, and then---WAM!

I haven't experienced it fully yet, but all those post like, "I've conquered all of Europe and Africa, I've the biggest Army, am the richest, AND now I've got mass REBELLIONS everywhere", are why you need trade to help build a BIG warchest. Cause when this happens your in big trouble. One thing goes wrong and the domino effect happens.

Many folks believe there's some "trigger" in the game at this point. From what I've read, I'm inclined to believe them. I think the Devs must have come up with this "trigger" to counter the fact that you CAN actually go VERY far in the game w/o trade; and that trade is an underdeveloped feature.

They should lower the amount of florins you can receive thru Conquest; or at least make it a player selectable "sliding level"; and perhaps adjust the "trigger" appropriately.

Viking, what difficulty were you playing in your first campaign.

I too find myself consistently starting new campaigns. As I become more familiar with the games features, etc. I want to try them out. Also, its sometimes a bit prohibitive to pick up an old campaign. One forgets, what's what. What your objectives were. What strategy your following, etc. I guess it would help to make notes, though I never do. Sometimes it takes a half-hour to re-figure this all out before you make a move. Hehehe.

Example, my present campaign I started cause of the above. One of these days I'll get back to it. Also, after reading how difficult Poland can be, I found it very intriguing. So, I'm Poland on Expert.

Mary, whenever I plan to go to war against a faction with boats: I destroy the enemy fleet first, before making a land attack. Then I look to hit the shipyard provinces. I also make sure, I have at least 3 shipping making provinces myself, that I don't need for building troops.

Unless your a warmongering rusher, planning is the key to success in MTW.

[Gringoleader]

There is a trigger for massed rebellion, but I'm not sure what exactly it is. I've had several unrelated provinces kick off with 200% loyalty in the past. No rebellions for something like thirty years and then seven in a turn isn't natural.

[ToranagaSama]

Interesting tip Viking, I'll have to check that out.

One last thing re fleets. Its also good in planning a war. Once you've got your warchest, pull your ships back to some good zone and stack em up. I say at least 3 ship stacks.

Once you go to war your trade network is done, so no point in leaving your ships hanging out there alone. Don't forget to move your ships with 1, 2, 3, level Stars to lead your stacks, just like on land with troops.

Once you've cleared the seas its realively easy to unstack your ships, rebuild your network and resume trading. This is what I've been perfecting in my last two campaigns.

Now, I wish the AI was better at building ships, using a trade network and warring its ships. Pretty dumb in all respects!

[muffinman14]

I found trading quite useful because im making 17,000 florins a year from it!

[Papa Bear!]

Quote Originally posted by Sword_Monkey:
That's why economic factors are as important as military factors in picking your fights. [/QUOTE]


ahhh, if only the dumbey head computers would let me "pick my fights." Having the most influence in the world, still leaves me with people all over that wont make peace.

[Nicephorus Phocas]

I've begun to try to avoid relying on trading, since an agriculture based economy won't lead to you losing massive amounts of money if you fight your major trading partners. I build the odd trading post, and my naval network is extensive for military reasons (Getting reinforcements to troublespots quickly is vital), but that's all.

Rebellions haven't been to bad for me since I learnt not to send my monarch on campaign once the Empire grows large.

[martin4444]

umm.. ok??

[Sword_Monkey]

Quote Originally posted by Papa Bear!:
ahhh, if only the dumbey head computers would let me "pick my fights." Having the most influence in the world, still leaves me with people all over that wont make peace.[/QUOTE]

Then kill them. That's why I only had four factions at the time of the above to deal with, those that don't play nice, don't play http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Thane Talain MacDonald]

Even with my war with the Byzantines, who have most of the coastal provinces, I'm still pulling in 27,000 gross. Crusader state in Antioch-Tripoli-Palestine is 5000, Constantinople is another 2000, Sweden-Norway-Denmark is another 4000.... :P

Having uncontested (well, almost, damn dromon) control of the seas is what brings in more money than I know what to do with.

[LordKhaine]

One tip... no matter how rich you are dont feel you have to throw that money away somehow.

If trouble starts and you need to maintain a huge army, you'll be losing a lot of money a year. When that happens you'll be glad you had 200,000 in the bank.

[Richard the Slayer]

Ships definately need to be improved. Trading may be helpful but you dont see results quickly. Also can you transport units in boats? I have found you cannot and would be realistic if you could. Also sea battles would be sweet - imgaine another aspect of MTW so instead of ai resolving sea battles you can fight em out. Historical references usually concluded medieval sea battles were basically land battles at sea. anyways just a thought.

[shakespeare_101]

I wonder how hard sea battles would be....change flat map to blue..Keep weather a factor...Bad weather would have more of a worse impact...build ship icons....Need to account for wind direction...the seige weapons could just be added to the ships...or some variant there of....Just speculating...but it seems like some clever developers could work out the bugs in an expansion... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Might be able to incorporate routing.....Wonder if you could have sea support for a land battle...might be too complicated..but interesting idea..

Dreaming I know...but maybe someday http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Richard the Slayer]

Yea the changes they make for sea battles could be that simple shakespeare, sure would like to see them.

[muffinman14]

Just remeber it wont be anything like age of sails even though I have never played that game just saw the screeshots. So mabye i dont know wat im talking about and feel really stupid right now for posting but...

[Richard the Slayer]

Quote Originally posted by muffinman14:
Just remeber it wont be anything like age of sails even though I have never played that game just saw the screeshots. So mabye i dont know wat im talking about and feel really stupid right now for posting but...[/QUOTE]

LOL, its ok muffin. Yea age of sails was pretty advanced, but considering the good job CA did with land battles SIMPLE sea battles do not seem out of the question.

[Thane Talain MacDonald]

That's why I keep an insulating layer of Catholics between me and Byz/Almo/Turks http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

That way I only need to garrison my colonial holdings and I have enough 6+ star generals to put one in each province. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Boondock Saint]

Too drunk to read all the relpied .. barely remember that this thread is about trading and NOT Conan ...anyway , i cant disagree more abou ttrading I liek it .. it makes LOTS of money, htough it sucks when war breaks out sitll .. its money that u wouldnt have had had u not treadered u se what I ean>