Turkish secularists arrested

[Don Corleone]

So, I'm curious about all opinions on this (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/newsfeatures/2008/0705/1215184125705.html), but most especially from LeftEyeNine and IrishArmenian (or others with first hand knowledge of politics within Turkey).

Is this a matter of the Islamic ruling party ginning up charges to portray the opposition in a bad light? Or are the secularists really plotting to overthrow the government and causing mayhem?

Also, does Turkey have any other non-Kurdish religious minorities (any large populations of Jews, Christians or Zorastracists, for example) and if so, how are they faring under the current leadership? Are they also viewed with suspicion by the government, or are the problems with the government limited to just the secularists?

And as far as lurching towards Sharia goes, how is Turkey's secularism holding up? Is the government actually pushing the society towards Islamic conservatism? Headscarves and beards popping up all over the place?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am curious, and I'm learning not to trust much of what I read.

Thanks!

[Geoffrey S]

Is this a matter of the Islamic ruling party ginning up charges to portray the opposition in a bad light? Or are the secularists really plotting to overthrow the government and causing mayhem?
It wouldn't be the first time a coup would be considered necessary to restore the revolutionary secularist ideals.

And as far as lurching towards Sharia goes, how is Turkey's secularism holding up? Is the government actually pushing the society towards Islamic conservatism? Headscarves and beards popping up all over the place?
I think it's rather the other way around. Increasing discontent with the traditional secularist governments, associated with corruption and inept governing, has for some time led to the growth of popular Islamic movements. They found their niche in setting up welfare programs the generally right-wing governments were unwilling to (and their dismantling of anything remotely socialist helped there), and used those as a base for getting into government. The headscarves and the like popping up tend to be a sign of discontent with the secularist politicians and are showing as much in elections, pushing government towards Islamic conservatism.

Much like similar political Islamic movements elsewhere, this is very much an urban, middle-class movement. Remarkably similar in origins and methods to European Christian Democrats, in my opinion.

[LeftEyeNine]

Is this a matter of the Islamic ruling party ginning up charges to portray the opposition in a bad light ?

It is.

Ergenekon Case (Ergenekon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergenekon_%28legendary_place%29) = where Göktürks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6kt%C3%BCrk) have spreaded from according to the legend, considered as a holy place in Turkish culture) is one of the stages put up by the governing Islamist party, AKP, to further weaken the army's and secularist wings' power.

Nationalism was always used as means of forming mafiatic organizations, however, this time, it is claimed that the formation went further as a "terrorist organization which aims to make a coup".

Seems like a milestone to get closer to a democratic nation at very first sight, however it is not. It's been more than a year and the case and the so-called terrorist organization is so blurry that the indictment for such a "dangerous" case was presented only yesterday.

There have been numerous custodies such as the head editor of Cumhuriyet newspaper (which is an independent and all-time Atatürk-idealist one), including some other columnists and chiefs of trade unions and such.

AKP has been designed smarter as the tool of "moderate Islamic means to evolve Turkey around the benefits of USA". Therefore instead of running angry mobs with Saudi Arabic flags in the streets calling "Allahu Akbar !", these "polished" Islamists following the lead of Fethullah Gülen, an utterly economically powerful religious figure currently residing in USA who has millions of committed followers, are using democratic means to weaken their archenemies - the Turkish army and the secularists.

All the plan seems to be working like charm: The closing of AKP's case is secretly being favored by the members of AKP more than anyone else. Because, combined with the recently augmented Ergenekon case, if their party gets banned from political life, they will be the "democratic lovely puppies" ripped away and torn apart by the "status quo fanatics".This will gain them more share of votes, a better vision in front of EU resulting in an underlined statement saying that "the army and the secularist environment does not want Turkey to proceed".

The case is so weirdly confusing that the top comic magazines have been making fun of it already, such as this one:

https://img385.imageshack.us/img385/7888/fft16mf72274ow9.jpg

The title and the speech baloon respectively say:

As the whole magazine, we are sharing the same feelings with our people towards the Ergenekon Operation:

"We didn't understand a s:daisy:"

What's more, last year, the first time the custodies and claims had been made about some "Ergenekon terrorist organization", Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's hastiness could not be ignored. He had said "There are very BIG things to come from under this". Sorry, how? Are you a psychic or should we insert conspiracy theories here ?

Briefly, I can expect nothing out of a political party whose ONLY dedication recently was to enable the headscarves to enter universities and work in state offices by modifying the constitution.

Headscarf IS the political icon (even the flag) of Islamists against Mustafa Kemal Atatürk 's revolutions -it's not a matter of freedom.

And AKP is the deep:daisy: we are all sucked in as a part of the show "A better Middle East brought to you by USA".

[LeftEyeNine]

Also, does Turkey have any other non-Kurdish religious minorities (any large populations of Jews, Christians or Zorastracists, for example) and if so, how are they faring under the current leadership? Are they also viewed with suspicion by the government, or are the problems with the government limited to just the secularists?


Oh and this.

We have Lazs (occupying Northern Black Sea region), Arabians, Circassians (one of the major minorities), Balkans, Armenians, Alevis (a religious sect) and such. The minorities other than Kurds are very rarely in the focus of a problem. Also, because of their unorthodox beliefs, the religious people dislike Alevis, which can be considered more of a problem when it comes to minority issues.

And no, this case has nothing to do with the minorities. None at all.

[Oleander Ardens]

I might be a simple mind but as far as i understand there are two dominant forces in turkish politics - the secular kemalists and the religious parties. Both are rather nationalistic and try to assimilate the other ethnic and religious entities. Now the turkish military was often ready to coup elected parties out of the power to conserve the true or presumed ideals of Kemal. The supreme court is the guardian of the constitution and often a natural ally to the secular cause. It is clearly possible than one of the more radical nationalistic and secular groups of Turkey might have discussed about staging a coup and deserve arrest and imprisoment. But the timing of the operation is clearly well chosen by Erdogan to show the people that "the powers" are against him....

Politics.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

On the Christian side, Don, there are a number of Orthodox followers (mostly Greek, not Russian church I believe -- not sure if they are ethnically separate as well, though Perhaps that was what LEN referred to under the "Balkan" label) as well as a large group of Armenian Catholics.

[LeftEyeNine]

@Oleander Ardens,

There are nationalist fractions who are religious but it does not mean that the religious are nationalists. The concept of Ummah in Islam stands for all being equal when he/she is a Muslim and that rules out the nationalist point of view. Also this Ummahism is common with most of the religious people in Turkey.

@Seamus,

Balkan people are those Bosnians, Serbs, Albanians, Bulgarian Turks and such. So not all of them are Orthodox.