OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

[GeneralHankerchief]

Careful what you wish for, guys. Klimis is still young.

[TinCow]

Wolfgang has the guts...

You are without a doubt the one person whose desire for civil war has never been in doubt. For all the Illuminati wranglings, I think it was your havoc in Swabia that kept the Cataclysm the most interesting. Perhaps you just need to start spanking some butt in LotR... :2thumbsup:

Think about it... all those people who failed to heed your call to arms weren't exactly shining examples of loyalty. :creep:

[Northnovas]

Just reviewing some post about the mod 1.3. Is the wages in the treasury the confirmation? I did a manual copy and I usually don't have a problem with this but when I look at my wages they are 7500 and the turn advance 7400. Are they suppose to be higher with 1.3?

[Ramses II CP]

Don't worry, if anyone comes to Egypt in the Emperor's name Vissa will be waiting for them, but IC he has a line to walk that doesn't include weakening the Order by expelling himself over a 'war' which sees the two parties a minimum of 6 turns march apart.

Knowledge which, as far as it isn't obvious IC, I'm sure can be kept OOC. :smash:

:egypt:

[Northnovas]

I think my reluctance is location of everyone. I am not happy where I am and everyone seems miles apart. Especially the two foes and the logistics of getting things together is a lot of game turns.
I must admit I am in the mode of game ending then game change for a civil war. :embarassed:

[deguerra]

damn waiting too long to post posts. Not sure it makes sense anymore, with the Basileos' latest scam. You make my life difficult Igno :laugh4:

As to the civil war, I (as in Ioannis) simply see no profit in it for me, and I have always been motivated mainly by profit.

[TinCow]

Just reviewing some post about the mod 1.3. Is the wages in the treasury the confirmation? I did a manual copy and I usually don't have a problem with this but when I look at my wages they are 7500 and the turn advance 7400. Are they suppose to be higher with 1.3?

In the LOTR-1155-6 save, I show wages as 10700.

[edit] Just read the Magnaura. Ignoramus, you're my hero.:applause:

[deguerra]

TC, am I correct in seeing the "new" war against the Order as separate from the one against Methodios?

[TinCow]

Yes, it is a separate war, though I'm still going to call the whole affair the War of the Princess for now. WWII counts as one war, even though the European and Pacific theaters were essentially different conflicts.

[OverKnight]

This isn't what I had in mind for Tiv, but it is fun. :laugh4:

No taxation without representation!

[Ignoramus]

Ah, where would we be without the colonists?

:clown:

[Ituralde]

Regarding Civil War, I would love to see it occur more often OOC, but the route I have taken IC with Pavlos doesn't leave me a lot of choices without completely ruining the character concept I have built in the past! So I like the situation although it puts me in quite a tough spot IC. :2thumbsup:

[Ignoramus]

Ioannis was always going to snap, in fact it's a remarkable achievement that he kept restrained for so long. He's a no-nonsense emperor, and I'm not one to shy a away from a challenge.

[Rowan]

Thanks for all the feedback on the installer. I didn't actually know if anyone even used it :laugh4: Good to know that people find it useful. For the next game I'm thinking of a feature where you could choose to keep the original mod intact and the installer would handle all of the dirty details under the hood.

In other news, can the deadline changes be announced a little earlier. I had to make my moves for the turn in less than 10 minutes, unable to coordinate with others. Now that there is ample time there are quite a few things I should have done instead.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

In the Civil War thread..

Didn't Ioannis Komnenos declraed war against Michail Arianitis?

[Ituralde]

In other news, can the deadline changes be announced a little earlier. I had to make my moves for the turn in less than 10 minutes, unable to coordinate with others. Now that there is ample time there are quite a few things I should have done instead.


I'm sorry about that. My weekend plans had been a bit flexible so it was something of a last minute decision. I try to keep this in mind though the next time I do it. Just learning along here.

[Rowan]

I'm sorry about that. My weekend plans had been a bit flexible so it was something of a last minute decision. I try to keep this in mind though the next time I do it. Just learning along here.

No problem :2thumbsup:

[TinCow]

In the Civil War thread..

Didn't Ioannis Komnenos declraed war against Michail Arianitis?

Not as far as I'm concerned. To make sure there are no errors (just as with oath swearing) it needs to be said pretty clearly (i.e. I declare war on X). Igno specifically declared war on the Order of St. John, but he just called Arianitis a traitor and essentially that anyone who defeated him would be given Durazzo as a reward:


I hereby declare war on the Order of St. John, for completely ignoring my calls to declare their hand.

I also declare Michail Arianitis a traitor for renouncing his oath of allegiance to the Basileus, which he swore in this august body. I also hereby declare Durazzo confiscated to the empire, and anyone who brings this upstart to account shall be granted Durazzo as a reward.

It seems to me that he wants Arianitis defeated, but wants someone else to do it for him. If Igno did indeed intend to declare war on Arianitis, he can just make a quick IC post which will satisfy that requirement.

[pevergreen]

No need, I did it myself.

[AussieGiant]

Urinating on the throne....

PEV, now that's pretty straight forward.

[pevergreen]

I thought so. Michail only really disliked Ioannis and Makedonis so it wasnt a hard choice for him.

I'll say here, I'm not going to go back in the Magnaura with him while this is happening, as I am a traitor etc.

So dont expect responses in that thread.

[AussieGiant]

Fair enough Pev.

[Ituralde]

So my first turn as Megas is done. Once again I would like to ask you to update your SoT posts. It gets confusing when you have to doublecheck the ownership of provinces. Please also include your Prioritization there, as that makes it easier for me to have all information in one place, meaning I don't have to go through several PMs to find the information I'm looking for.

I tried to comply with all the rules, if I made any mistakes don't hesitate to point them out. I'm still familiarizing myself with all the things. It's awesome fun though to finally lead the Empire! :2thumbsup:

[AussieGiant]

Ituralde,

I'll up date mine tonight.

FYI:

I'm heading to Argentina Tuesday (tomorrow) morning for 5 days. I'll be on US eastern Time until Saturday.

OK, GH, this will put me in the same zone as the two of you. Igno, Ituralde, we will be out of sync for 5 days.

[ULC]

Anyone want to help proof read and edit a story before I post it? I am really tired, but I'd love to get htis done now...before I have to change more parts of it :laugh4:

[Ituralde]

Northnovas I had wages of 10400 at the beginning of the turn.

[TinCow]

Northnovas I had wages of 10400 at the beginning of the turn.

That is the proper number, and since you're the one hitting end turn, that's all that really matters at the moment.

[OverKnight]

I realized that I'm technically at War with Tagaris. Do I just need to declare that I opt out, or do I need to break my oath?

[TinCow]

Individual Senators may unilaterally remove themselves from a Civil War within one turn of the Declaration of War that brought them into it by breaking all Oaths of Loyalty that tie them to any Senator involved in the War and by publicly declaring Neutrality. Neutrality cannot be claimed by a declarer, a target, or any Senator who has been involved in a PvP Battle during that specific Civil War.

You'll have to break your oath to Apionnas Vringas and then make a public IC post saying you are neutral.

[Rowan]

I just got an idea: since many people want to make sure if they managed to install a new version of the mod successfully, the version number should be embedded in the game. I think that appending it to the end of the faction leader trait would be optimal, since one avatar always has it and it is easy to find. Another option that wouldn't be too obvious could be the description of a certain building.

[TinCow]

That's a good idea of the changes are more vague. For the current version, the change is easy to notice. If your wages are in the 10000+ range, it's installed properly. If they're in the 7000+ range, it's not.

[Northnovas]

That's a good idea of the changes are more vague. For the current version, the change is easy to notice. If your wages are in the 10000+ range, it's installed properly. If they're in the 7000+ range, it's not.

:furious3:

I have copied a few times but I am missing something. :wall:
I am not the end turn guy but I want to get it right. Will make another attempt. The wages are a easier indicator but I think the leader or building being ID would be a good marker if there are any future add ons that are more subtle.

[TinCow]

Try using the executable that Rowan made. I have a feeling you are probably extracting the files to the wrong location, and the .exe version should avoid that mistake.

[Northnovas]

Problem solved it was a combination of Rowan's file; very slick program and overwriting manually the file. I have the game broken into mods by med manager so I think Rowan's file covered the root file and I manually did the mod. I got increased wages to confirm so its been fixed. :pleased:

[ULC]

Tooting your own horn there a bit OK :clown:?

[OverKnight]

That's one way to look at it. It's not like I have any other former Emperors to reference in the game. :dizzy2:

[ULC]

I'm wondering what people think of my writing. Good? Bad? Twisted, convoluted plot that doesn't make sense and is untrustworthy because not everything I write for my characters is true? Or understandable and easy to read? Enjoyable? Skip it? Too short? Too long?

I wanna know, because of half the enjoyment is writing it, the other half is knowing that someone else liked it.

[Smowz]

YLC, I certainly enjoyed it. You have given Nikilaos an interesting depth, he is clearly has been part of some complicated and twisted plot lines (including the latest war for the princess). The poor fellow seems destined to be caught in knots his entire life.

On an OOC note, I will be away from the next few days. I will be returning saturday afternoon/eve.

[TinCow]

Please be aware that in order to declare neutrality in a Civil War, you must break your oath to ALL other Senators involved in the Civil War:


Individual Senators may unilaterally remove themselves from a Civil War within one turn of the Declaration of War that brought them into it by breaking all Oaths of Loyalty that tie them to any Senator involved in the War and by publicly declaring Neutrality. Neutrality cannot be claimed by a declarer, a target, or any Senator who has been involved in a PvP Battle during that specific Civil War.

This includes vassals. Thus, Northnovas has not yet properly removed himself from the Civil War. If you have a vassal in a Civil War and want to leave it, you must either break your oath to the vassal or have the vassal get out of the Civil War as well (via neutrality or Peace Treaty).

All of this political maneauvering on the declarations of war (which we have never experienced before) has made me realize that this system is a little bit cumbersome. I think we can streamline it a bit by falling back on our feudal system. At the next Senate session I will propose a Rule Change that will make declarations of neutrality and Peace Treaties signed by any Senator also apply to everyone below them in their vassal chain. This will make the process a bit simpler, and it doesn't really prejudice anyone because any vassal removed from a Civil War in this manner can just declare war again to get back into it if they really want to.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm hereby resigning from LotR. Ever since the Klimis character was spawned, I've tried to make things work, but it just didn't happen. There were numerous attempts at immersing myself in the game (alliances, Megas election, new House), but none of them worked. I realized that even after a potentially juicy civil war situation when I wasn't motivated enough to move my character around for 5 minutes every 2 days or so and make an SoT post that this just wasn't going to work.

I'd like to apologize to the people that invested time in the game with me, notable OK, AG, and deguerra for making a brilliant coat of arms that will, sadly, never be used.

I'll still be around, voting in an OOC role and umpiring any potential PvP battles that come up, but for now, I just can't be bothered to take a character and go with it. Maybe sometime farther down the line. Have a good game, guys. :bow:

[Ituralde]

I'm surprised and saddened by this. I hope it didn't have too much to do with me winning the election for Megas. I hope your motivation will return eventually! :beam:

[Ituralde]

Smowz has contacted me that he will not be able to fight the battle within the 48 hour timeframe that is allocated for fighting battles. Since he could easily retreat back to his ships I saw no need to extend this period and have played on before the 48 hours were over.

[TinCow]

FYI, Tristan should be back on a regular schedule by tomorrow. As such, beginning tomorrow I will return the minimum turn period to 24 hours.

[gibsonsg91921]

Civil War! The intrigue! Big fight, who will win?

[Ramses II CP]

Whomever holds the Megas position when the actual fighting breaks out, of course. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[_Tristan_]

I am back !!!

Though I still have a lot of catching up to do...

The war will have a mind behind it soon...

[Smowz]

In a fairly dismal rushed saturday evening effort my avatar is dead!!!

Nevoulas is dead long live his next charactor!!!

All the young recently come of age charactors look interesting to play, the second sons of Komnenus or Kalemeteros or the new husband of that princess hmmm....

I will come back to you with the decision!!!

[Ramses II CP]

Doh! Sorry Smowz, you never even got to fulfill your Moorish crusade-y idea. Some of those italian spearmen catch you? I have a feeling our avatars won't be quite so rough and tumble once we get deeper into the professional western spearmen.

Maybe you should take a chivalrous, religious type. You know, sort of a monk-ish guy with a proclivity for the Levant... :laugh4:

:egypt:

[TinCow]

Status Update: My wife and I closed on a new house last week. We take possession tomorrow and have a lot of work to do in repainting it and making some modifications, as well moving all of our stuff over. For the next 2-3 weeks I will be online very rarely from home. This is especially true for the days of November 14th to 16th when I will have no internet access at all. However, I will still be online regularly from work during this time period. I'm pretty far ahead on my workload, so I can spare a bit more time there for LotR. So, I expect to be active during normal EST working hours M to F, with low level activity at all other times, except Nov. 14th to 16th, when I won't be online at all. I don't think any of this will impact the game in any way, since it seems to be moving nicely on its own, but if I am needed for something, just be patient and I'll deal with it as soon as I can.

[Northnovas]

What would we do if we didn't have internet access at work?

We wouldn't get all our fun completed. :jester:

Congrats on the purchase TC! A smart move homeownership. :2thumbsup: I just finished paying mine off, and I am moving on, working on a summer place but the US dollar conversion. :furious3:

[Cecil XIX]

People can write their wills after they die?

[TinCow]

People can write their wills after they die?

No they cannot. That was sent to me via PM by Smowz. From the way it was written, I assumed it had been posted elsewhere and he was just relaying it to me. I admit that I did not check to confirm this at the time. I have now check and unless it was in his now-edited SOT post, I don't see it. Thus, the will is null and void and everything goes to Nevoulos' Lord, which is Zigavinos. So, the only chance would be that Belgrade goes to Zigavinos instead of the Basileus.

Editing the Magnaura post to reflect this.

[Smowz]

Aghh did not realise this was the case.

I had not seen OK's will anywhere when he had died, so I assumed he had done this posthumously.

Fair enough I guess.

So we all have to write our wills before we die, like real life?

[woad&fangs]

Mizus link takes me to the clan takiyama site. AtomicGamer requires me to register before I can upload. Sorry for the wait, I'll try to get the new save up as fast as I can.

[TinCow]

Aghh did not realise this was the case.

I had not seen OK's will anywhere when he had died, so I assumed he had done this posthumously.

Fair enough I guess.

So we all have to write our wills before we die, like real life?

Yep, that's part of the rules:


2.4 – Wills & Inheritance: On his death, all of a Senator’s provinces and retinue are distributed according to the most recent valid Will. In order for a Will to be valid, it must have been posted in a public thread or PMed to econ21 or TinCow prior to the Senator’s death. Except as noted below, a Will provision is only valid to the extent that it names a living, of-age avatar that is controlled by another player as the inheritor of the province or retinue stated. A player's next avatar may only inherit a single province and a single retinue. A Will may name multiple Senators as inheritors, so long as each province and/or retinue is only bequeathed to a single Senator. Any provisions of the Will that do not meet these requirements will be invalid. Valid provisions of a Will will not be negated due to the existence of invalid provisions in the same Will. If there is no valid Will provision for an owned province, the Senator’s immediate Lord gains possession of the province. If the Senator also has no Lord, the Basileus gains possession of the province.

You certainly don't have to post your will publicly. You can PM it to me at any time and I will simply store it in case you die. You can send me changes to your will whenever you want, but it either has to be posted publicly or sent to me by PM while you're still alive.

[rossahh]

I've got to be the richest Strator in history. I own four provinces!

[Smowz]

TC and Cecil,

Yes I can see the rule now. Sometimes you think you know all the rules and then something like this comes and bites you in the butt.

As I say it was a mistake, there was nothing sinister or gamey about what I was trying to do. As Nevoulas died in the battle, I was thinking to myself what would he do in his will. Of course I should have figured this before I fought the battle, but I didn't anticipate this outcome.

But I can see why the rule is there and rules are rules, it makes sense.

[flyd]

The curse indeed. Out of the eight people who have ever worn the Asteri arms, four have died in battle, one went inactive, one was kicked out, and two still remain.

[Rowan]

It seems I managed to fry my graphics card. That means my main computer is inoperable and I won't be able to access the save for at least a few days. CecilXIX can move the avatar in my absence.

[_Tristan_]

Can I request a small extension of the turn period ?

Until 1300 GMT today ?

[Ituralde]

Done!

Just send me a PM when you're ready. This is generally the case. If you need more time, just let me know! :2thumbsup:

[_Tristan_]

I should be done by 1300...

Thanks !!

And I'll send you a PM

[TinCow]

Smowz is now playing Vakchos Tzetzis.

[Rowan]

I got myself an early Christmas present by getting a new fast, whiny, video card. So I'm back in play!

[ULC]

Err, not to be to much of a bother, but why is Modestos ek Edessas still alive, in Constantinople? He was one of the three RBG's spawned (along with Tiverios and Klimis) a while ago, shouldn't he have been, well, testing experimental diving equipment at this point?

[TinCow]

As noted previously, I don't really have much spare time when at home at the moment. Thus, it may take me a while to get around to disposing of that avatar. Anyone is free to send that avatar to the bottom of the Bosporus... just make sure it is not assigned to someone according to the Senate Library or a family tree avatar (which we keep around even if no one is playing them) beforehand.

[_Tristan_]

Thanks for the delay, Ituralde... :2thumbsup:

and there goes another bomb into the Magnaura...

[Ituralde]

I don't think the delay was that bad. I just figured I'd rise the speed a little after the 48 hours and sometimes more turns we had last week. Although I saw that other people also accessed the save after the initial 24 hour window.

I wanted to try for another 24 hour window, but could easily extend to 48 hours. What's your feeling on this? Were the recent 48 hour turns too long? Are 24 hours too short right now? I'm really quite flexible here so it depends on what you want!

[_Tristan_]

I'm usually fine with the 24-hour window, it is just that sometimes things keep piling up and do not allow me to access the save in a timely fashion... Just knowing that you're amenable to extend the window past the 24-hour line on simple request is enough for me...

[Andres]

For what it's worth: I prefer 48 hours.

[Rowan]

For what it's worth: I prefer 48 hours.

Me too, (or at least two evenings local time :laugh4:)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Lol, I think my character have never been mentioned in the Megas report so often! :laugh4:

It's so good to be famous! :laugh4:

[Ramses II CP]

One wonders if the Megas is rethinking his decision to 'downgrade' the Order's troop requests. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[Rowan]

Theo just needs lots of ships to carry the wine barrels on his leisurely Mediterranean cruise...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Theo just needs lots of ships to carry the wine barrels on his leisurely Mediterranean cruise...

Well, Theo have "Alcoholic" and "Slave to superstition" traits, so this might be the best explanation for his actions! :laugh4:

[Ramses II CP]

I just want to note that Magnentios the Bastard is now possibly the most epic potential entertainment in the entire Empire. At the end of his education 'the Bastard' who also has 'prolific' for his reproductive trait has been ordained by the church.

If V ever encounters the man I will refer to him as Father Bastard.

:egypt:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

If V ever encounters the man I will refer to him as Father Bastard.

:egypt:

:laugh4::laugh4:

[Ituralde]

Lol, I think my character have never been mentioned in the Megas report so often! :laugh4:

It's so good to be famous! :laugh4:

Hehe, no problem. IC, IC, IC that's the way it goes. I'm really enjoying it and it's good to see that you seem to enjoy it too! :2thumbsup:

[ULC]

We need Zim back! Come back to us Zim!

[gibsonsg91921]

What would we do if we didn't have internet access at work?

:

More like, what would I do if I didn't play DOTA in chem? lol

[pevergreen]

Correction: Diablo 2 in every lesson. :grin2:

[_Tristan_]

:birthday2: Happy Birthday, Kag !! ~:cheers:

[Ituralde]

Oh noes! I forgot to kill off Modestos ek Edessas! :angry: Will do so the next time I take the save if someone else doesn't do it first.

Also Aleksios ek Ikoniou has picked up the Duke of Belgrade retinue. If someone could enlighten me to the console command needed to transfer it to its rightful owner Zigavinos?

[TinCow]

Also Aleksios ek Ikoniou has picked up the Duke of Belgrade retinue. If someone could enlighten me to the console command needed to transfer it to its rightful owner Zigavinos?

Capitalization matters, but I'm not sure whether Belgrade is capitalized in the code, so try lower case if upper case doesn't work.


remove_ancillary "Aleksios ek_Ikoniou" dearmad_Belgrade

give_ancillary "Zigavinos Vasilakios" dearmad_Belgrade

[Cecil XIX]

Me too, (or at least two evenings local time :laugh4:)

Thirded. I'd have an easier time getting started on stuff if I knew I had two days to do it.

[Zim]

Hey guys, I'm back. Sorry to be gone so long. I've been having computer issues. :no:

[ULC]

YAY ZIM IS BACKKKKKK! ZIM! WHOOT!

So, will you be playing Father Bastard now?

[pevergreen]

The Basileus resumes his seat.

The seat hasnt been cleaned :grin2:

[_Tristan_]

The seat hasnt been cleaned :grin2:

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Ignoramus]

I'll be away for 2 days.

[pevergreen]

Cleaning your robes no doubt...

[AussieGiant]

I head for Prague now until Monday morning.

I will continue with the perparations for the 'G2 Summit' as soon as I am back.

Does either party object to the proceedings being conducted in a separate thread in which the listed avatars present at the summit are permitted to post and no others?

This can be resolved IC to having imperial scribes sending the minutes of the meeting back to the Magnaura by fast courier.

[Rowan]

I will be gone for the weekend. Have fun!

[_Tristan_]

@ AG : a separate thread would help and would prevent people from throwing oil on the fire...

And have a nice time in Prague...

[AussieGiant]

@ Tristan,

Thanks for the wishes on Prague. If you could write to TC about the thread that would be great.

I bcc'd him in the last PM I sent the three of you as an unofficial "heads up".

I'd say it would be a good idea to have a thread placed for the duration of the summit.

As soon as I'm back I'll reply to your last PM and get this up and running by mid next week.

It should be a hoot.

[_Tristan_]

Yes, I think this should be a high time in the history of the Empire...

I'll drop a PM to Tincow about setting up a separate thread...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Oh noes! I forgot to kill off Modestos ek Edessas! :angry: Will do so the next time I take the save if someone else doesn't do it first.


I got him first! Bwahahaa.. :evil:

[Marcus Agrippa]

Ok guys I've been here a couple of days now and don't know what to do with my Avatar. should I just ride to the corners of the empire and hope to fight evil?

[Northnovas]

Ok guys I've been here a couple of days now and don't know what to do with my Avatar. should I just ride to the corners of the empire and hope to fight evil?

Join me on the March to Venice!

[Ramses II CP]

Why ride to the edges to fight evil when the real evil is right in Nicaea? Join the Order and take on the Emperor! :beam:

:egypt:

[Zim]

That's the plan. Now to figure out what exactly I'm going to do with him. :clown:


YAY ZIM IS BACKKKKKK! ZIM! WHOOT!

So, will you be playing Father Bastard now?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

That's the plan. Now to figure out what exactly I'm going to do with him. :clown:

You can join the Order. Well, he is Father Bastard anyway :clown:

[ULC]

You can join the Order. Well, he is Father Bastard anyway :clown:

No, he can join Ilios Korakas! Or most likely Asteri. I mean, Ioannis has to pass down the House leadership to someone. Will it be his son in law or his illegitimate, ordained, prolific and most likely soon to be debauched, drunk and devout son?

[rossahh]

Or it could be me. Then I could own 6 provinces!

[ULC]

Or it could be me. Then I could own 6 provinces!

Are you sure your character isn't Milanese or Venetian? You seem to have an obsession with collect wealth and land :clown:

[rossahh]

Given that the Byzantines were a continuation of the Roman Empire, why wouldn't we be obsessed with money and all that jazz?

[ULC]

And yet we seem keen on pointing out how money grubbing those Milanese are :clown:
Anyway, at this rate rossah, your likely to be House Asteri.



As in the only member ~;p

[ULC]

I'd like to point out that to the Megas to ignore the Kosmopolis part in Tristan's SOT. According to the House charter, it actually belongs to me, since he sacked the city.

[rossahh]

Now who's getting greedy?

~;p

[ULC]

Yeah, but at least me greed is part of the House Charter ~;p
Your just lucky is all.

[rossahh]

Or maybe just totally evil? Somehow all of those people were killed in winnable battles. :strawman2:

[ULC]

Hmmm...if the curse of Asteri sticks...rossah, I challenge you! Your 1500 to my 1!

[TinCow]

I'd like to point out that to the Megas to ignore the Kosmopolis part in Tristan's SOT. According to the House charter, it actually belongs to me, since he sacked the city.

House 'Charters' are not part of the rules in any way. Province can only be transferred in one of the methods provided by the rules, regardless of what your House Charter says. If someone has violated your House Charter, it is up to you to enforce the penalties for that violation.

[rossahh]

If you were dragged into a civil war and wanted to remain neutral but preserve the feudal chain, could you not break your oath with the consent of your lord and then reswear immediately to the same lord?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

A little loophole? :inquisitive:

[Ituralde]

If you were dragged into a civil war and wanted to remain neutral but preserve the feudal chain, could you not break your oath with the consent of your lord and then reswear immediately to the same lord?

Of course you could, but then I don't see what exactly is gained by this?
And if someone really doesn't like the practice, he can just declare war directly on the person that declared neutrality and then reswore immediatelly.

[TinCow]

Yep, not exactly a loophole because the other side can just declare war on the person who 'fled.' Plus, how many Lords are going to actually like their vassals abandoning them during a Civil War?

[AussieGiant]

As soon as I saw the concept you can imagine what I thought about that using an IC situation. :balloon2:

--------------------

Vassel to Duke Arnold in KotR;

"My Lord, I'm just going to drop my oath to you because I do not want to participate in the civil war you have going on at the moment. Once that is done, I'll re-swear to you right afterwards so I can enjoy the benefits of rank and privilege that I certainly don't want to lose. Any problems with that my lord? None...excellent, I thought you'd agree."

Arnold:

"And exactly how do you like you gut's strewn about?

Would you like a necklace, earring perhaps, maybe a crown...ah I know, a garter, very sexy, I'll have that arrange in a jiffy."

[TinCow]

I'd like to point out that to the Megas to ignore the Kosmopolis part in Tristan's SOT. According to the House charter, it actually belongs to me, since he sacked the city.
House 'Charters' are not part of the rules in any way. Province can only be transferred in one of the methods provided by the rules, regardless of what your House Charter says. If someone has violated your House Charter, it is up to you to enforce the penalties for that violation.

There has been some confusion regarding the above. After a brief inquiry, this is the full situation:

Methodios Tagaris captured Mecca. At the time, he was a sworn vassal of Nikolaos Aristenos. The Civil War was already in effect at that point. Thus, via the usual rank powers over vassals, Nikolaos Aristenos gained control of Mecca the instant it was captured. The Civil War does not have anything to do with this situation, as Methodios Tagaris and Nikolaos Aristenos were not at war with each other and Mecca was owned by the AI. Thus, Mecca (or whatever it is called now) belongs, and has always belonged, to Nikolaos Aristenos.

Apologies for any confusion due to any statements I may have made before that conflict with this. To be clear, the only situations in which conquered provinces will not go directly to a Lord are the following:

1) When captured from another player in a Civil War (and even then, it is up to the umpire to figure out who gets it)
2) In-game event which specifies that the normal rules do not apply (i.e. Crusade event)

If you don't want your Lord to own the province you're about to conquer, then you should break your oath to him first.

[ULC]

Wow, thank you TC :bow:

I had utterly forgotten about the power as being a Lord of another noble.

[Ignoramus]

Sorry for my inactivity of late, guys. I still haven't fixed up my installation of MTW2. I'm going to plough straight back into the game and get it installed properly.

Also, I'd like to nominate Pavlos Chrysovergos to attend the council.

[AussieGiant]

I'll update the thread.

[_Tristan_]

By the way, AG, Nicosia is in Cyprus not Crete... The summit should be called Heraklion or Nevoulion, rather...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Lol, does Ioannis going to visit Makedonios as well?? He is in Nikosia after all! :beam:

[AussieGiant]

By the way, AG, Nicosia is in Cyprus not Crete... The summit should be called Heraklion or Nevoulion, rather...


Jesus with all the bloody name changing I have no idea what the hell is going on. :balloon2:

No one is in Nicosia right now, while Lazy ass is in Nevoulion. I thoguht it best to have it somewhere where this is no other avatar present.

If this is an issue I'll change the names to suit.

[ULC]

Jesus with all the bloody name changing I have no idea what the hell is going on. :balloon2:

No one is in Nicosia right now, while Lazy ass is in Nevoulion. I thought it best to have it somewhere where this is no other avatar present.

If this is an issue I'll change the names to suit.

I am sure that if Flyd where around, I'm sure he could prove otherwise :wink:

[Ituralde]

Also with the rogue Sicilians roaming around on Crete and an unresolved Civil War between Isaakios Komnenos and Theo Petzeas, Cyprus is by far the better choice to hold this meeting. Although being on territory controlled by the Order of St. John is not exactly neutral.

Just throwing information around here. I really don't care where the meeting is held as long as it is held!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Let Ioannis come to Cyprus, let him come! Though he might not leave from there! :evil:

[AussieGiant]

Ok so we are doing it on Nicosia. There is no one there, plus only a regiment of peasants are on the island. For all intense and purposes you can all assume there is the equivalent of a full stack of Varangian's now garrisoned.

:2thumbsup:

[Rowan]

Although being on territory controlled by the Order of St. John is not exactly neutral.

What do you mean we are not neutral! We went to bloody war to remain neutral! S' not our fault the current Basileus is about as arrogant and more impulsive than a herd of bulls on crack!

:laugh4:

[AussieGiant]

What do you mean we are not neutral! We went to bloody war to remain neutral! S' not our fault the current Basileus is about as arrogant and more impulsive than a herd of bulls on crack!

:laugh4:


Nice visualisation there Rowan. How would you describe the Caesar then? :beam:

[_Tristan_]

Looking through the Senate Library, I just noticed that Apionnas had the "Loathes the Muslim" trait...

Maybe he's not so bad after all...:beam:

[AussieGiant]

Yes quite an ironic trait that given his background. I simply ignored that particular one. :balloon2:

So where are these two gentlemen? Are they going to make an appearance or is this just some elaborate joke. :beam:

[Ituralde]

Yeah, so I tried playing around with the ancillaries and nothing seemed to work. I tried the code provided by TinCow changing around from upper to lowercase but still the ancillary can't be found. The same is true for any Pagan Magicians. So just consider me a console noob and feel free to do it yourself when you take the save!

Sorry for the inconvenience!

Ituralde

[AussieGiant]

OK,

Are you going to make your way over to the Summit thread or should we start without you? :inquisitive:

[Ramses II CP]

Oh yeah, Vissa has grown another Pagan Magician that needs to be eliminated as well. I think I can just refer everyone back to the previous story for explanation. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[Ignoramus]

Just a note that I won't be online tomorrow, so that is why the Basileus may not post.

[Ramses II CP]

Hypothetical question, which we can hopefully keep OOC. What happens if the summit isn't over when I land Vissa on Nicosia next year? Can I at least threaten my enemies who are supposedly there? Can I block the port with my fleet and prevent them fleeing? Or are they not actually there even in theory?

Just curious, figured it could make for some interesting dynamics in game.

:egypt:

[Ituralde]

Since I am busy right now, I won't take back the save today. Tomorrow the earliest. This should help the Summit conclude without too much happening IC. Aside from any threats to the island my main concern is that I don't want the Summit to be overtaken by the next Diet Session which isn't that far off. Of course if the two candidate dawdle too long, there's nothing I can do to help.

[Alerion]

would be fun if one of them dies of old age while the summit is taking place :laugh4:

[AussieGiant]

Anyone is free to do what they want to the Summit, just don't complain when TC give me a stack of my choosing and forces you to fight me in a PVP. :balloon2:

It's bound to be ugly and I get to take the moral high ground also.

It's likely to be a full court debacle. :beam:

[Northnovas]

:birthday2: Happy Birthday AG :birthday2:

Too bad your not really on a Nicosia celebrating! Though the traveller you are may be you are on an island. Enjoy the day; party on Garth! :guitarist:

[ULC]

Happy Birthday AG :beam:!

[Ramses II CP]

Ahh, but that would be a good death, and would maybe even get the war going. I'm all about finding a good death for V at this point.

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

@ Northnovas and YLC. Thanks for the best wishes guys.

Ramses, a good death, would be nice...but I'd appreciate it if you found that somewhere else.:balloon2:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Belated (but not for my timezone) happy birthday, AG!!! :medievalcheers:

[Zim]

Happy belated birthday AG!

[Ituralde]

Happy belated Birthday from me too! And also apologies for the longer than normal turn. I had quite a busy weekend. I will finish the turn this evening! :2thumbsup:

[TinCow]

I am back online at my new place, though the place is still a serious mess and I have a ton of work to do. For most of this week, I expect to be online only sporadically from work. However, if something arises which I need to deal with, I can now access the game.

Also... Happy Birthday AG!

[pevergreen]

reading the terms proposed, where should I have Michail talk?

[_Tristan_]

I could send him an invitation to the party...

More seriously though, you could always post in the Magnaura unless Michail has a death-wish, Apionnas seems more than willing to oblige...

[ULC]

I think the Terms the Basileus has proposed so far are nearly laughable. It's an insane power grab to me, one that Nikolaos would fight to the death to not get passed.

All IC of course, I find that so far Iggy's character has been a joy, and the most consistently avaricial and power hungry yet, better then Kalameteros :P

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I think that the summit in Nicosia was there to find a solution to the Ioannis and Methodios' conflict. So I don't know how could Ioannis propose such terms to the Order and to Arianitis because their representatives are not even there! Nor were they invited!

[_Tristan_]

I think the Terms the Basileus has proposed so far are nearly laughable. It's an insane power grab to me, one that Nikolaos would fight to the death to not get passed.

All IC of course, I find that so far Iggy's character has been a joy, and the most consistently avaricial and power hungry yet, better then Kalameteros :P

It's the way bargaining works...

Start with an outrageous offer and make concessions so that the other party will feel he has gained the better half of the deal...

And I must admit that I'm having a blast playing counterpoint to Iggy's hungry avatar...

Feeding him a bit of his own KotR medicine, I fear...

[ULC]

I also have to say Nikolaos is kinda wondering why Tristan didn't call in more support for himself...

[_Tristan_]

I tried but most people prefered to stay on the sideline or joined with Ioannis and wouldn't be moved...:shrug:

Plus that lessens the risk of betrayal...:whip:

[AussieGiant]

Good to see you guy's finally posting at the Summit.

It seems to have everyone somewhat interested. :balloon2:

To all, thanks for the birthday wishes. :beam:

[_Tristan_]

Good to see you guy's finally posting at the Summit.

I just had to sharpen my tongue before posting anything...:devil:

I won't go down without a fight....:boxing:

[Ramses II CP]

Okay, unless there is actually some reason why I cannot do so, I intend to land Vissa and his little army on the island of Nicosia and disrupt the Summit. I know that's OOC inconvenient, but in character I cannot imagine V doing anything else. The Summit is common knowledge, the location is far and away the best opportunity V will have to actually confront the Emperor, and IMHO the game needs a little spark to make this civil war business serious.

I'm announcing it here ahead of actually doing it to give whomever needs it all the time they need to figure out what the consequences of that action are beforehand. Don't tell me what they'll be, just figure 'em out and punch me when he hits the ground. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[Ignoramus]

If you wish to fight 10,000 Varangian Guardsmen, they go right ahead.

[Ramses II CP]

Do you have reciepts for those? :laugh4:

As I said, I am going to do it... in fact, let me go do it now. I'll leave Theo with the ships.

:egypt:

[TinCow]

For the record, there will be no alterations to the game due to anyone landing any army on Cyprus. While I understand that IC the place is supposed to be guarded by Varangians, that is simply something that some of you have made up to make the plot more interesting. That army does not exist in the game, nor is there any kind of Event in progress that would allow for such an army to be created. If you do not want someone to land an army on Cyprus, it can be dealt with in two ways. First, modify the IC storyline to explain it away. Second, sail an army of your own over to Cyprus and destroy the person causing the problem.

[Ramses II CP]

So the way I see it you guys can accept that Vissa is going to burst into the Summit and present his views on things, or you can have left the island ahead of him and resumed the Summit elsewhere. Since none of it is, in any practical sense, 'real' I'm happy to let you decide which or propose other options of course, but I didn't want to get into a situation where OOC threats about guards changed what seemed like the logical IC decision.

:egypt:

[Ituralde]

This is quite an interesting intermingling of game mechanics and story mechanics. We can not threaten Vissa with our invisible army, while he can't really threaten our invisible avatars with his real army. Since AussieGiant is the head of the meeting I leave it to him how to deal with this situation.

I think for this to even remotely work though, both parties involved should agree on some common ground, to what parts of the story mechanics are real for the purpose of the IC involvement and what parts of the game mechanics are real for the purpose of this IC involvement.

For example I could imagine the following for bringing the story and actual savegame into concurrency: The members of the Summit just pretend like their part of the island is guarded by Varangians and that's why Vissa can't access the meeting, nor attack the avatars involved in it. Since the avatars of the members of the Summit are not on the island this is supported by the game mechanic, since Vissa has no way of attacking Ioannis or Methodios in the current situation. Also this wouldn't nullify anything AG has written as part of the story about the Summit.

Of course this still is a very interesting IC situation, where one Senator threatens the security of the peace negotiations. We can then deal with that situation IC on a common understanding in what situation our avatars are.

[AussieGiant]

This is interesting.

I think we have a choice to make.

We either agree that the IC and OOC aspects are real or not.

What I mean by that is what Ituralde said;

The Avatars are not actually there in the real game, so if we accept that they are in order to let Vissa interact and interrupt proceedings, then I would also need agreement that there is just a massive number of Varangian Guardsmen there also.

If things came to blows then we would move to an actual battle either Online or via the mechanics we are familiar with in the last game.

What I can't see plausible is Vissa landing with his army and being able to use his "real" army against "unreal" avatars, without acceptance that the "unreal" avatars have a very sizeable "unreal" security force on the island for just these reasons.

While TC has said there is going to be no change to the actual game, I can see him accepting a PvP battle being set up to simulate the "real" and "unreal" aspects of the situation.

If this can not be agreed then I can simply warp the meeting away and Vissa is therefore tragically too late to interrupt things.

How does that sound?

[TinCow]

While TC has said there is going to be no change to the actual game, I can see him accepting a PvP battle being set up to simulate the "real" and "unreal" aspects of the situation.

If both sides agree, I will allow a PvP battle in the following format:

I will determine the size and composition of the Varangian army. All avatars participating in the Summit will be considered to be on the island for the purposes of determining the results. All avatars at the Summit will have the option of joining either side or sitting out. All of these avatars will be vulnerable to death or capture if the victorious Senator decides to kill or capture them, even if they choose not to participate in the battle. Regardless of whether the Varangian army is victorious or not, it will never be manifested inside the game itself. It will only be created for the purposes of fighting the battle.

[_Tristan_]

The way I see it is that Vissa has such a large fleet that he can practically enforce an OOC/IC blockade of Nicosia. So until in game Ioannis has a fleet large enough to defeat Vissa's, he is a prisoner on that island.

Even considering that the avatars are not physically present on the island at all times, they have to come and go, somcthing which Vissa's fleet could very well prevent.

The Varangians might prevent Vissa from making a landing and threatening the avatars' life but they are powerless to break the blockade, IMHO.

Just my :2cents:

[TinCow]

I would perhaps permit a siege to occur to allow both sides to summon in-game armies as reinforcements (assuming they can get them to the island). I will only allow this if both sides first agree to the terms I listed above. If they do, I will consider the siege option and if I decide to allow it, I will leave the decision as to whether to engage in it or not up to Ramses.

[Ituralde]

If both sides want to push for a PVP battle I won't mind it. Of course as a first step we should all agree that Vissa landed on the island with an army. I don't know about the others but I know that Pavlos will have some IC reaction should this occur.

Concerning your example Tristan:
The problem is that in that case our avatars would have used ships to get there. Even in the game it is possible for one ship to carry avatars to the next shore. Were those avatars physically on the island the Megas Logothetes could hire mercenaries for them to boost their numbers of Mercenary Ships to let them sail off the island or weaken Vissas fleet enough with throw-away mercenaries to make an escape.

Like I said before this isn't an easy matter and it is a combination of story and game mechanics. I think we should keep all of them in mind and not focus on the story side or the game mechanic side alone.

[TinCow]

Ituralde is correct in his comments. If the above terms are agreed to, I would allow all avatars on the island a 50% chance of fleeing the island if they do it alone and on the first turn after this situation begins. Anyone who escapes will have their avatar teleported alone to a spot along the coastline north or east of Cypress. The exact spot will be determined randomly, but it will be at a spot close to Cypress. On an IC basis, the avatars will have been smuggled out on a tiny fishing boat.

[Ramses II CP]

Vissa is on the island and spoiling for a fight of some kind, verbal or otherwise. He's just south of the castle, where he could be 'in siege' (If the Summit was in the castle) or just combing around the island.

If you guys want a PvP battle don't warn me about the hordes of Vars; I'd much rather just have it happen. The decision has already been made as far as V is concerned. Besides, we all know the real odds are the number of avatars, and the other troops are just there to slow them down.

I'll agree to almost anything to keep V from dying of old age still trying to convince the Order to make an offensive move. :laugh4:

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

I'm a little leery about anyone outlining what is and isn't real given I've requested this event occur.

Hell I could back date a series of counter measure for just this type of action that would make all this irrelevant. And that's my perogetive given this is an "out of game" event.

Please note I don't want to do this, but I will insist on a complete 5 way agreement before anything discussed here should occur to peoples avatars.

There is certainly an opportunity to do something IC, but the simply fact is, if I date the summit in the thread as the year 1165, then it's all happening before Vissa gets to the island. This event, is at best a couple of weeks on an island with 5 avatars. Getting in and out in a year seems feasible.

When I hear from OverKnight, and Igno then we can proceed based on their thoughts, keeping in mind this will potentially slow the game down even further.

What I would like to do is get the 5 of us to agree on some parameters and then let TC create the final framework to umpire this.

Only then can we move forward with the debate in which Vissa is allowed to get involved in. We can continue negotiations right now, and I think we should, but simply hold off on Vissa getting involved until we settle this.

Thoughts?

[TinCow]

Yes, agreement by all is mandatory if this is to be dealt with in any way other than IC storytelling. I will not place someone's avatar in jeapordy against their will when that situation has not resulted from in-game movements.

[AussieGiant]

Alrighty then.

OK, Igno, get yourselves orjanised.

[ULC]

May I add something? Nikolaos is heading for Durazzo to take care of Michial. If this indeed did happen during 1165, then the Basileus's statements about Michial would look...awkward, at best, especially if Nikolaos kills Michial.

[Ituralde]

On a general note I will not take back the save until further notice, i.e: the whole Summit on Nicosia situation is resolved.

[GeneralHankerchief]

If PvP is involved I'll help out.

[OverKnight]

I'm agnostic about this whole thing. Tiv is there as a neutral party. . .so I'm not too invested. I'm cool with whatever occurs.

[AussieGiant]

I'm agnostic about this whole thing. Tiv is there as a neutral party. . .so I'm not too invested. I'm cool with whatever occurs.

Well that's overwhelming OK. :balloon2:

Just yanking your chain.

So Igno to go and then we can thrash something out.

[Marcus Agrippa]

Well to make it quite realisitc guys can the avaters and armies actualy travel to the island in the game turn. I'm thinking that if I wanted to distrupt the summit then I'd need to plan it and travel there. I couldn't very well just teleport. Even as a ooc summit it takes away the time involved to do this if in game moves are ignored. In history the outcome would be determined by what could really be done. So unless your settling this with courior of pigeon mail. I suggest a real journey be involved to make twists like this work.

[_Tristan_]

To make things clear, I'm all for resolving things through a PvP battle...

Either Methodios will end up with a crown upon his head or without a head...

[Ignoramus]

I don't know about a PvP battle, although I'd love to get this thing resolved. I'm actually regretting the civil war now. I declared it for mainly OOC reasons(to spice up the game), but in turn it's actually started to ruin the game for me. I've done nothing the entire Megas term. So I'm eager to get it resolved.

What would be involved in the PvP?

[TinCow]

I don't know about a PvP battle, although I'd love to get this thing resolved. I'm actually regretting the civil war now. I declared it for mainly OOC reasons(to spice up the game), but in turn it's actually started to ruin the game for me. I've done nothing the entire Megas term. So I'm eager to get it resolved.

What would be involved in the PvP?

As noted above, I would generate an army to simulate the 'Varangians' that are meant to be guarding the island. As this battle is the result of Vissa attacking his enemies, everyone who is at war with him will be placed in command of the Varangian army. Those who are not at war with Vissa can choose which army to join (if the commander of that army allows them to join) or try and flee. Fleeing will have a 50% chance of success and success will result in their avatar being teleported alone to a random spot along the mainland close close to Cypress, either to the north or east. This could be dangerous if there are people who have declared war against him in the area.

A PvP battle will then be done in accordance with Rule 5.4. As the battle takes place on an island, there is no where else to run to. The victor will be in complete control and will capture all avatars who fought against him in the battle and survived. He can execute any of these captives at will. The victor will also be allowed to capture any avatars who did not successfully flee the island, even if they didn't fight against him in the battle. He will not be allowed to execute those people unless they are at war with him, but he can keep them captive as long as he wants otherwise.

Regardless of the results, no units will ever be generated in the game to represent any survivors of the Varangian army. In contrast, Vissa's losses will be manifested in-game by disbanding units.

[deguerra]

so no three way duels on sad hill cemetary? :clown:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

This makes me think that Theo can also side with his Lord :yes:
He is on the ships and can join Vissa if necessary.

[Andres]

It would be a shame if you guys would solve all IC disputes before Savvas dies.

On the other hand, it would add to the tragedy :2thumbsup:

I'm so going to miss him ~:mecry:

[ULC]

It would be a shame if you guys would solve all IC disputes before Savvas dies.

On the other hand, it would add to the tragedy :2thumbsup:

I'm so going to miss him ~:mecry:

Such a waist of good men too :no:

:clown:

[AussieGiant]

Hate to disappoint you all but I'm hoping for a diplomatic resolution.

[Ramses II CP]

Theo would be welcome of course, but I figured since you had asked to retire to Aleppo that I'd leave you on the ships. I only went ahead and made my move to prevent OOC threats/considerations from changing my mind about what should be a purely IC decision.

For V there is no diplomatic resolution. He arrived at Nicosia intending to raid the Summit and confront the Emperor. If, through the magic of 'not really in game events' you guys aren't there or something else has prevented the confrontation I'm totally fine with that and I respect that desire, but if you're there... he's coming.

:egypt:

[Andres]

As noted above, I would generate an army to simulate the 'Varangians' that are meant to be guarding the island. As this battle is the result of Vissa attacking his enemies, everyone who is at war with him will be placed in command of the Varangian army. Those who are not at war with Vissa can choose which army to join (if the commander of that army allows them to join) or try and flee. Fleeing will have a 50% chance of success and success will result in their avatar being teleported alone to a random spot along the mainland close close to Cypress, either to the north or east. This could be dangerous if there are people who have declared war against him in the area.

A PvP battle will then be done in accordance with Rule 5.4. As the battle takes place on an island, there is no where else to run to. The victor will be in complete control and will capture all avatars who fought against him in the battle and survived. He can execute any of these captives at will. The victor will also be allowed to capture any avatars who did not successfully flee the island, even if they didn't fight against him in the battle. He will not be allowed to execute those people unless they are at war with him, but he can keep them captive as long as he wants otherwise.

Regardless of the results, no units will ever be generated in the game to represent any survivors of the Varangian army. In contrast, Vissa's losses will be manifested in-game by disbanding units.


I think this is an elegant solution.

[AussieGiant]

Well lets keep the OOC discussion about the IC intent to a minimum as I'd say we are about to have an agreement.

The four gentlemen in question have said they don't mind or are in favour of the situation being as TC described.

If that is the case and there are no last minute objections we can move to the IC situation.

Any last minute concerns guys?

[_Tristan_]

Nope

[AussieGiant]

Anyone else? :beam:

[OverKnight]

The one objection I have is that if I had known that by agreeing to take place in the summit Tiv ran the risk of being killed or dumped halfway across the Empire from his present location, I wouldn't have had him come.

[Ignoramus]

Also, the Basileus isn't too keen on getting murdered.

[AussieGiant]

@ OK and Igno.

Well that's my point. And I feel the same way. To be honest, unless there is the ability to commit 100% to what ever outcome there is from starting this "incident", then I think I will simply date the summit as taking place a few years ago and that will be the end of it.

Sorry to the rest of you, but that's the best way forward in my view.

[pevergreen]

I don't think thats fair though. We are playing this entire game IC, so IC Vissa could come and do this. Simply teleporting back in time to prevent something is just...bad sportsmanship IMO.

[TinCow]

It's not remotely unfair. The summit is nothing more than a story. It doesn't exist in the game and the avatars are not there. Subjecting them to possible death against their will simply based on the location of this story would be unfair. If you want to kill them, just march an army over to wherever they really are and do it.

[Ituralde]

Looks like Vissa came too late.

Well this seems to settle it. I will not be able to take back the save until tomorrow morning/noon. So you have until then to resolve the outstanding matters.

[Ramses II CP]

I wouldn't call it unfair either, not in the slightest, though 'unsporting' might suit just because it's now unlikely there will be any significant confrontation in the 'Civil War' before most of the subjects involved are dead of old age. I mean, here's V with a paltry few troops and just about every negative supply system trait in the game willing to attack an army of the elite troops of the Empire backed up by multiple noble's bodyguards. Frankly I think even if I somehow manage to gather enough of an army to sail to the center of the Empire everyone will probably just march around avoiding me until the reaper collects us. :laugh4:

That being said I accepted from the very start that this was a likely outcome; V will just have to tour the site of the Summit, curse the fates, and take Theo on to Aleppo. :yes:

:egypt:

[AussieGiant]

Ramses,

The concept was certainly a good one. I appreciate your flair for the dramatic and it's a great "option" to be presented with.

So as the Summit organiser I just want to say that I had no plan in mind to present the participants with any mortal threats to their avatars as part of the IC story.

Therefore if there are any reservations, which there are, I would like to officially proceed with out taking Ramses up on his option.

So, with that be said, can the two old farts get back into the negotiations and try not to die in the process? :balloon2:

[ULC]

Your not so young yourself ya know :clown:

[AussieGiant]

So true YLC:beam:

[ULC]

Is it me, or is their going to be a mass die off soon? I see about 10 people getting new avatars very soon...I hope that means this place will buzz with new life, and will be as active as it was in the beginning.

[Ituralde]

Sorry, I didn't want to let too much time pass for the Nicosia Summit. I will wait with my final report until tomorrow, so we can then open the next Diet Session. Hopefully the two parties will have reached an agreement by then. Either way what better place to announce the results of the negotiations than during a Senate Session!

I hope this is a good compromise between giving the negotiations a chance without halting up the game.

Cheers!

Ituralde

[AussieGiant]

I certainly hope the silence is due to deep thinking on the part of the protagonists.

I'd say we will have to break it off soonish if nothing can be resolved.

[_Tristan_]

I would have liked to have a bit more involved Basileus... I almost felt I was talking with myself...

[AussieGiant]

Igno seems to having some access issues.

The end of Ituralde's term means things will slow down some more so perhaps this will help.

[_Tristan_]

I goaded and prodded all I could with no result...

Frankly, there was no way Methodios would have led an assault on the other side of the Empire with a hostile Megas and half the Senators against him...

And though is considered the declarer, it is not his honour that is at stake in resolving this situation...

The Basileus is letting a slap to his face go unpunished as it stands

[Smowz]

Good job on the Megas term Iterulde, hardly the easiest of premises to take charge of the empire!!!

Sorry I have not been as active as I would have liked of late. I am afraid it is that same old excuse of work dragging all my spare time out of me.

I am have been watching the events transpire with intrigue. It is a shame that it did not work out in any real conflict, but it did test the loyalties of some of the senators in the empire. Is complete anarchy around the corner I wonder!!!

[woad&fangs]

ahh, bugger, I was hoping to get a settlement before the next Magnaura meeting. :wall:

[TinCow]

Other than Vissa's pagan magician, are there any other retinue changes that need to be made?

[Ituralde]

There's a Pagan Magician on Savvas ek Militou and I think the Duke of Belgrade is still on Aleksios ek Ikoniou and should go to Andreas Dermokaitis.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

the largest and most powerful Empire on this planet,

I thought that medieval people in that time thought about the Earth as a flat place and did not mentioned it as a planet? :inquisitive:
Or does Apionnas know something that we don't? :laugh4:

[Zim]

Magnentios first (admittedly dull) IC post and I'm reinstalling MTW2 right now. Zim is back. :beam:

[Cecil XIX]

I thought that medieval people in that time thought about the Earth as a flat place and did not mentioned it as a planet? :inquisitive:
Or does Apionnas know something that we don't? :laugh4:

I can't speak for the entire medieval world, but I believe educated nobles such as the Senators thought of the Earth as a spherical planet which other planets orbited.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I can't speak for the entire medieval world, but I believe educated nobles such as the Senators thought of the Earth as a spherical planet which other planets orbited.

And those educated nobles who cared about astronomy were rarity in medieval times.
But most of the times peoples who spoke about things like that were considered heretics.
Then again, I'm not so familiar how things were in Byzantium..

[ULC]

Yet didn't the enlightened Arabic scholars know better? And wasn't it a long held idea that the world was in fact round by Greek people? I know one could say people backslided a bit, but I am sure something like that would be kept, at least within naval and astronomical records...

[Alerion]

Maybe AG somehow met one of our prisoners of war who by chance was an enlightened arabic scholar who knew better and suddenly felt the urge to let AG's avatar in on the secret :laugh4:

[AussieGiant]

Gentlemen,

With a fine point of history and knowing that Apionnas was educated as a Arab the "planet" reference is accurate. Arguably at this time of history, Islamic knowledge far outstripped the Central and Western Realms.

So yes...he does know something more than the average bear.

:egypt: :egypt::egypt:

[Ituralde]

Sooo... shouldn't somebody get the next Diet Session started? Nudge @Protosaecrates :beam:

[Ramses II CP]

I hate to say it, but the Summit sort of needs to be concluded before the next Magnaura session. It's going to make a pretty big difference in the political lay of the land if there was a peace treaty signed a few years ago. Plus the Magnaura session, once begun, is on a timer and we could very easily wind up in a situation where the Summit outlasts the Magnaura.

I know time is a problem for us all, but I think for internal consistency we need some sort of finality on the peace talks.

:egypt:

[TinCow]

Sooo... shouldn't somebody get the next Diet Session started? Nudge @Protosaecrates :beam:


Sorry, was running wiring through walls yesterday and didn't have time to get online. Taking care of it now.

[AussieGiant]

And yes you're correct Ramses, the time shifting can only really work for so long.

As you can imagine Ap more than happy to tell both to $%%^ off back home and die while their at it. :beam:

[Alerion]

Ok so now we have the session opened and the summit still not concluded... how should people act now in the session? IC the summit is long over and the results known...

[Ituralde]

Well, I always saw the outburst of Apionnas to be the conclusion. Both parties couldn't agree on a result and the negotiator walked off. Looks like an inconclusive outcome to me.

[Alerion]

So that means "officially" the civil war is still going own during the session?

[AussieGiant]

I would say that is an accurate assessment Alerion. :beam:

[TinCow]

Sorry, but I dont particularly see a reason to delay the Senate session for the negotiations. They seem to be going very slowly, and at this rate it could take weeks to finish them. I'm not willing to put the game into a perpetual state of limbo for some IC chatting.

[AussieGiant]

TC,

Can you lock the Summit thread and unsticky it.

[Ignoramus]

Any takers for Rule Change 7.1?

[TinCow]

TC,

Can you lock the Summit thread and unsticky it.

:bow:

[Andres]

Just to make things clear OOC:

Nothing Savvas does now (and has done in the past) is to be taken personal OOC. The oath breaking by his Lord, Aleksios ek Ikoniou, was a huge dissappointment for him. Add to that his year long alcohol problem, which has made him an erratic and unstable personality and you get a very, very bitter man, who will blow up all bridges between him and his fellow Senators.

:bow:

[TinCow]

I think the question we all want to know is... what happens if Blacky wins the election?

[AussieGiant]

Just a law question.

This is an open election? Doesn't Igno have the right to take the position under rule 11 of his powers?

[rossahh]

Is that cancelled out by Ioannis Komnenos cannot assume to the post of Megas Logothetes... (or whatever the exact wording was) CA that was passed before Alexios died?

[AussieGiant]

ahh good catch rossahh. I did not see that in the current active CA's.

[rossahh]

Are there time limits to CAs, RCs or Edicts anyway?

[TinCow]

Are there time limits to CAs, RCs or Edicts anyway?

Edicts expire after 10 turns. (IC enforcement)
CAs are permanent until repealed/changed. (IC enforcement)
RCs are permanent until repealed/changed. (IC or OOC enforcement)

[ULC]

May I ask the proper format to propose a RC? It feels awkward trying to ask the other senators to accept an RC while IC.

[TinCow]

Just propose it in the Magnaura in the usual format:

Rule Change X.X: Text goes here.

Discuss it wherever is most appropriate. Some RCs are IC in nature and can be discussed in Magnaura, some are OOC in nature and can be discussed here. I think the dialog will naturally progress to the proper spot. Note that Rule Changes don't need to be seconded.

[Rowan]

Can I assume Senators have some kind of an immunity when attending Magnaura? I'd rather not have Bart open his mouth in Magnaura and be promptly arrested for treason...

[Ignoramus]

You can't be arrested - ever. Only if your in-game avatar happens to be next to the Basileus and you decide to bow to his supreme will and not put up a fight.

:clown:

[Rowan]

Bart will certainly bow, but not to the Basileus... One could say that he's bowing to the opposite direction... :clown:

[AussieGiant]

Fire away Rowan!! :beam:

[TinCow]

Can I assume Senators have some kind of an immunity when attending Magnaura? I'd rather not have Bart open his mouth in Magnaura and be promptly arrested for treason...

The worst that can happen is that you can be expelled from the Senate, which prevents you from speaking there and proposing legislation. That has no impact on your actual avatar though, and you can still vote even if it occurs. Plus, you can never be banned from the Hippodrome, so you can always go there to continue agitating.

[edit] At this point, I'm likely to extend the Senate Session. We're through 2 of the 3 days of debate and there have been a total of 18 posts. This is very disappointing, considering the situation. Also, I will be out of town for Thanksgiving holiday from Wednesday evening through Sunday evening. I will have internet access during that time, but won't be online much. I will also be away from Thursday, Dec 4th through Saturday, Dec 6th for a funeral.

[Rowan]

Rest assured, there's something happening behind the scenes (cue ominous music).

Also, I will be away from any net access between Nov 29th and Dec 5th.

[Ramses II CP]

Okay, I was going to stay quiet this session since V has basically all he wants/needs at the moment, but with activity low... well, I did my part to stir the pot.

:egypt:

[ULC]

Hmmm...The Tyrant, the Dog, or the Warmonger?

[Ramses II CP]

I hope everyone can keep the events that didn't happen at the Summit purely OOC. Theo might be aware that Vissa was hoping to attack the Emperor, but logically everyone else just saw him dock at Nicosia, core Order territory, and go ashore with his men. :yes:

:egypt: