Crusades a joke

[Teutonic Knight]

Has anyone ever actually sucessfuly launched a crusade captured the province and held it for the specified amount of time( on anything above easy mode) I found it practically impossible ( especially for the English) by the time my army got to Palestine or whatever, it was full of 18 units with 3 guys in it. Seriously is this realistic? surely Baldwing of Bolougne had an easier time than this in real life!

[Gringoleader]

It took me 4000 guys to take Constantinople. Antioch probably would have needed another 4000 on top of that. Apparently having a bunch of priests and inquisitors in tow keeps deserters to a minimum.

[Vanya]

GAH!

Vanya, in His eternal wisdom, managed to conquer the province He had set out to take once... with a crusade full of peasants with a haphazzard collection of lone horsemen riding shotgun.

Killed over 1200 of the enemy pig-dogs... (helps the bastid general was valor 7... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif )... but alas, 3 counterattacks later while I was laying siege... my valiant crusaders could not hold back the heathen tide...

Vanya's real objective, though, was to raze the province and cut heads off. In that respect, it was a glorious victory! Just never got the province fully "taken"... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

GAH!

[Lord TangMo]

Well, from Byz point of view, that is not my problem. But just wonder to see those crusaders tried, hopelessly, to get through my defense every year. At first it was 1:1 but eventually their army reduced to less than one hundred some years later, but still charging in to my more than thousand-strong army.

[Akadi]

Well I’ve been playing on hard mode ever since I got this game. Been a bit difficult changing my tactics from shogun. Well I’ve found crusades to be quite useful, but generally I’ve found its much better to have to claw through as few enemy or unfriendly, non-Christian provinces as possible, i.e. taking a province, two or three provinces into ‘enemy’ territory. That’s how I got Constantinople, and now Lithuania. I generally use crusades as a first attack into the enemies back, that’s how I took most of the Arab and Byzantine empire (I’m the Spanish). And using a hammer and anvil tactic squeezed both fronts. Took Lithuania, to finish of the Byzantines and take that non-Christian portion of the map

[Apeboy]

I actually built the citadel in Tripoli playing French GA mode on hard. Held it past 1200 with 1000s of men continually under attack from the Egyptians.

After about 20 years the Egyptians called for peace. I accepted, moved out half of my army a few years later as they are expensive to upkeep and I need some defense in the homelands. Ten years later the Egyptians attack, take Tripoli and I get to do it all over again as it gives you back your crusade cross freee of charge.

Oh yea, I find it best to move crusaders by sea, don't declare your crusade until you have built all the armies you are going to supplement the crusaders with.

Build your crusade and all accompanying armies, crusaders just aren't enough. Then declare you crusade, preferably in a seaport province. Add in extra troops and travel by sea.

[This message has been edited by Apeboy (edited 10-28-2002).]

[Whitey]

I've found crusades best used against excommed catholics - I put together a whole army of Order foot, knights and fanatics after wresting about 5 provinces of the enemy faction - and the pope doesn't mind at all http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Whitey (edited 10-28-2002).]

[Jo_Beare]

I use the a rolling crusade. First send a crusade to one of the enemy front line provinces. Once you take that province launch a crusade to the next province. When the second crusade marker gets to the first crusaded province, dump all of the extra units from the first crusade into the second crusade. After repeating that a few more times, you should be able to reach and take any province on the map.

JoBeare

[cart6566]

Get it full and send it by sea. If you are lucky the port won't get destroyed. If it does, then build the port first. That has been my method of success.

[Paladin]

If you like to see Crusades getting started closer to historically accurate, try the 1092 campaign.

You can download it from: http://home.pacbell.net/jpaladin/1092Early.zip

Check out this thread for more info about what else is included in this campaign:

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000601.html

[ToranagaSama]

YES! Normal, Venice to Constantinople.

[DojoRat]

I had an easy time with Spain. I was lucky enough to look ahead and put a zealous gov in Castile and used progressive crusades to push the elmo's out of Africa and the Egyptians out of the Levant. Other factions don't really have this option but the keys are still starting provinces zeal and how quickly (ie fleets) you can get there.

My big beef is that once you're there other catholic crusades arrive later when you're in complete controll and ask you to hand over your life's goal.

------------------
He moves, you move first.

[Odyssey of War]

I have played on both Normal and Hard levels and have had no problem using crusades successfully. Of course you have to supplement the crusade with some or I should say many of your own men.

Problem you may be having is that you are trying to travel too far and so end up losing more men than gaining. Make sure that you dont take too long to get to your goal and that you dont travel through provinces that have low zeal. A lower zeal province will make more deserters and a higher zeal province will add more forces to your crusade. And as said above, keep some inquisitors with you, both ahead and with your army to keep the desertions down if you have a long way to travel. Crusades can be an easy way to add many forces to an army, without actually having to pay for them.

[Teutonic Knight]

What is the 1092 mod and what does it do? Could you give me just a bit more information?

[Paladin]

Quote Originally posted by Teutonic Knight:
What is the 1092 mod and what does it do? Could you give me just a bit more information?[/QUOTE]


Yes, my pleasure. Here is the contents of the readme.txt file that is zipped along with the 1092 campaign.


- No more spies. (Spies used as tools for rebellions are far too powerful and unhistorical. If you want to see what's going on in other parts of the map, use the cheat code by typing in everything between the quotes, ".matteosartori." That will bring up what's going on all over the map. IMHO, it's a more enjoyable way to play the game. NOTE: Sometimes one or two of your ships will disappear while using this cheat. Just type in the same cheat code and it will restore your ships so that you can see them again.)

- Hungary, Novgorod, Sicilian, and Aragonese factions are now playable.

- Changed start date to 1092 A.D.

- The Turkish Faction has been given: Nicea, Trebizond, Rum, Georgia, Anatolia, Edessa, Armenia, Syria, Antioch, Tripoli, and Palestine.

- Added Fort in Nicaea.

- The Turkish Faction has the following troops in the respective provinces:

ANATOLIA - Horse Archers 40
ANATOLIA - Spearmen 100
NICAEA - Horse Archers 40
NICAEA - Spearmen 100
TREBIZOND - Spearmen 100
GEORGIA - Horse Archers 40
GEORGIA - Spearmen 100

- "Lesser Armenia" is rebel controlled with the following units:

Horse Archers 40
Spearmen 100

- Changed Libya (Cyrenacia) and Tunisia to rebel (Hammadids-Zirrids) controlled.

- Added the following units to Algeria:
Berber Camel 40
Desert Archers 60
Berber Camel 40

- Added Horse Guild, Cathedral, Monastery, Reliquary, Royal Palace, and Merchant to Constantinople. (Historically, St. Sofia had been around for hundreds of years and was the greatest cathedral of its' age. Not including it would be a huge breach of historical fact.)

- Upgraded Citadel to Fortress in Constantinople.

- Added the following units to Constantinople:
Spearmen 100
Spearmen 100
ByzantineInfantry 100
ByzantineInfantry 100
ByzantineInfantry 100
ByzantineInfantry 100
NapthaThrowers 12
NapthaThrowers 12
TrebizondArchers 60
TrebizondArchers 60
AlanMercenaryCavalry 40
Kataphraktoi 80
FireGalley 1
FireGalley 1 (The Byzantines had an extensive fleet which is not represented in the original "Early Period."

- Changed control of Crimea to Byzantines.

- Added Spearmen 100 to Crimea

- Added a port and castle to Crimea.

- Changed control of Serbia to Byzantines.

- Added the following units to Serbia:
Spearmen 100
ByzantineInfantry 100

- Added 20 Florins to production of Greece.

- Added castles to Crete, Rhodes, Cyprus, and Malta. (Historically, all four had castles and Malta's castle was very strong.)

- Added castle8 to Antioch. (In 1097, The Crusaders found a huge castle so big that they didn't have enough troops to surround the entire city. Also, the seige could easily have dragged on for a year.)

- Added castle8 to Jerusalem.

- Changed Portugal to Almohad ownership. (Historically, the Almohads controlled 3/4 of Portugal. However, Portugal is Catholic religion and culture.)

- Added the following units to Portugal:
Desert Archers 60
Berber Camel 40

- Added castle to Trebizond. (Historically, the Byzantines held on to the castle while the Turks held the province. There's no way that I know of to split up control so I opted to include a castle but give nominal control of the province to the Turks.)

- Changed Burgundy and Provence to Burgundinian (rebel) control. (Historically, Burgundy was a seperate nation for many years and wasn't consumed by the HRE until the mid-1200's)

- Added troops originally in Burgundy and Provence into Swabia and Tyrolia, respectively.

- Added a port in Wessex and Normandy (Both provinces had ports by that time.)

- Upgraded Fort to Castle in Wessex.

- Added a Shipwright in Wessex.

- Removed neighbor link between Wessex and Flanders. (It is far too easy for the French to move troops to England when historically the French only were able to mount raiding parties of the English coastline. So in the game, if the French want to invade England, first, they will have to build a fleet and fight it out with the English on the sea then on land.)

- Changed control of Anjou and Aquitaine to French control. (Again, historically, the French had control of these areas by 1092)

- Added Archers 60 and Spearmen 100 to Aquitaine.

- Added Peasants 100 and Archers 60 to Anjou.

- Added Chapter House to Ile de France so that Crusades can begin as historically launched.

- Changed Castle in Ile de France to Castle8

- "Improved Farmland" and "Horse Farmer" for Wessex.

- Moved all English units previously in Anjou and Aquitaine into Normandy.

- Added (2) Archers 60, Peasants 100, Spearmen 100, and a Barque to Wessex.

- Increased income of Normandy to 430

- Increased income of Wessex to 450

- Increased income of Mercia to 320

- Increased income of Northumbria to 290

- Changed control of "The Papal States" province to Italy while Rome remains in the Papist hands.

- Papist leader is moved to Rome.

- Moved units from "The Papal States" to Rome.

- Put Naples under Sicilian Rule.

- Add Spearmen 100 to Naples.

- Added (1) Galley to Venice.

Additionally, following are the changes in order to make it so that in the "Age of Feudalism", factions have the ability to actually build Feudal Knights right away as is historically correct. So instead of having to wait for many years until you have the funds and have gone through the
process of constructing all the various buildings, the Feudal Knights are now ready to be used by those factions that can build them:


- Added Castle, Armourers' Workshop, Royal Estate, and a Royal Palace to Poland.

- Added Castle, Armourers' Workshop, Royal Estate, Royal Palace, and a Spearmaker to Hungary.

- Added Horse Breeder, Armourers' Workshop, and Royal Estate to Rome.

- Added Castle, Royal Estate, Royal Palace, Armourers' Workshop, Spearmaker, and Horse Breeder to Sicily.

- Added Castle, Horse Breeder, Royal Estate, Armourers' Workshop, and Royal Palace to Bavaria.

- Added Castle, Horse Breeder, Armourers' Workshop, and Royal Estate to Venice.

- Added Castle, Horse Breeder, Spearmaker, Armourers' Workshop, and Royal Estate to Aragon.

- Added Castle, Horse Breeder, Royal Estate, and Armourers' Workshop to Castile.

- Added Castle, Horse Breeder, Royal Estate, Armourers' Workshop, and Spearmaker to Denmark.

- Added Royal Estate, and Armourers' workshop to Wessex.

- Added Castle, Royal Estate, Horse Breeder, and Armourers' Workshop to Ile de France.

Interesting historical note on Italy: There was no Italy until the 1800's. The faction

referred to as Italy in the game is historically merely a geographical region and nothing more. The area was controlled by a number of City-States with no central authority.

During the 11th century an elaborate pattern of communal government began to evolve under the leadership of a burgher class grown wealthy in trade, banking, and such industries as woolen textiles.

Many cities--especially FLORENCE, GENOA, PISA, MILAN, and VENICE--became powerful and independent City-States. Resisting the efforts of both the old landed nobles and the emperors to control them, these COMMUNES hastened the end of feudalism in northern Italy and spawned deeply rooted identification with the city as opposed to the larger region or country. The cities were often troubled by violent and divisive rivalries among their citizens, the most famous being the papal-imperial struggle--between the GUELPHS AND GHIBELLINES, the supporters respectively of the popes and the emperors.

So, really, Italy should not be a power at all but instead should be broken up into a number of City-States.

I fought the temptation to make the Italian player a one province empire with Venice as the sole playable province and then Genoa, Tuscany, Milan, Corsica, Sardinia, and the Papal States province, as all rebels.

But since that would obviously make playing the Italian player almost impossible, I left the Italian states as one empire. But if anyone would like me to split them up, please let me know.

Once again I ask, please check this early campaign out by downloading from http://home.pacbell.net/jpaladin/1092Early.zip and post your comments at http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000601.html . Thank you.