View Full Version : Creative Assembly Idea for Warlord Edition...???
shokaku76
10-26-2002, 20:09
It got me thinking... Perhaps the best thing about TW was the fact that emphasis was sorely on Japan. How about for Warlord edition, maybe have option for smaller campaigns based on say... England, France, or Germany and focuse on those nations. I know, I know, that would require seversl new Maps, but it woun't be too difficult, would it be? Think of the possibilities? Along witht eh overall campaign, smaller, more focused smaller National campaigns. With England, then Scots could truly be one of the major factions, or the Wales, etc... Perhaps, France would be included in the campaign as well.
I would love to hear from the dev teams on this idea...
Coeur De Lion
10-26-2002, 20:33
ermm na i have a feeling they wont make a new add on to medieval i hope they start on there next sequal like Roman Totalwar (gets on knees and prays) but if they did you idea would be good but what do you mean campagins like an enlgand campagin which only focus on britsh isles that would be a good idea but i dont think they would ever do that.
shokaku76,
I think that's the way to go, and make the turns seasonal or even monthly. You wouldn't have to limit these geographically smaller campaigns exclusively to western Europe. You would have fewer factions involved (unless CA can build in better cooperation between allies) in these unification or invasion campaigns and less progression up the tech tree, but they would be more realistically scaled in time and space to historical events. How can CA leave the game as it is and move on to a different era without people being able to play out the great nation building struggles? Lots of people want to be a certain character and play out that character's struggle. For instance, Robert the Bruce vs Edward I. That would be a decent sized campaign game right there if you had monthly turns.
[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 10-26-2002).]
Richard the Slayer
10-27-2002, 00:14
Quote Originally posted by shokaku76:
It got me thinking... Perhaps the best thing about TW was the fact that emphasis was sorely on Japan. How about for Warlord edition, maybe have option for smaller campaigns based on say... England, France, or Germany and focuse on those nations. I know, I know, that would require seversl new Maps, but it woun't be too difficult, would it be? Think of the possibilities? Along witht eh overall campaign, smaller, more focused smaller National campaigns. With England, then Scots could truly be one of the major factions, or the Wales, etc... Perhaps, France would be included in the campaign as well.
I would love to hear from the dev teams on this idea...[/QUOTE]
I agree totally. England should have been the medieval total war map, perhaps with normandy, france at the bottom of map. Factions include - Anglo Saxons, Normans, Welsh, Scots, Irish, and Vikings. The problem with the present europe map is its much too broad. Having players with the objective of becoming king of england by taking 2/3 of Britain is not far fetched. In fact, the scale is quite consistent with Shogun so the gameplay is a little more realistic. I felt killing off roughly 300 scots and welsh in their respective regions and wiping out the french by the year 1150 was a sorry game. An English map will allow players to immerse themsleves in true Medieval experience (lets leave out the almohods and egyptians, the games getting out of control here).
They will make an expansion. What that will be is total speculation.
Wouldn't that have to include totally new campaign maps? This is not what the MI expansion did, and I believe it would be too close to the scope of an entirely new game, instead of it being just an expansion. I am not saying that it's not a great idea (I loved Defender of the crown http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif ), but maybe that this could be a bit too much to expect.
The Scourge
10-27-2002, 03:17
Tis a fine idea.
Kraellin
10-27-2002, 04:42
ok. i like the idea of the more intensified faction wars, but why not make it a bit more inclusive and simply make the expansion pack the Medieval: Total War Construction Set? being one of those that follows along in the mod's forum, i see guys doing this and that mod and begging for scraps of information on how to do this or that and mod this and that, and testing this and that ad infinitum.
CA has opened up the files in a BIG way. some of you may not even know that you can edit the campaign map. yup. you can completely change it, land, water, land bridges, the whole ball of wax. it's a bit of work, but it's possible. now, what if we had a FULL blown editor that would do this, along with several example maps of say, england, france, germany, spain and so on, in which you could divide up a single country into much smaller units. then add in a full blown unit editor for altering english whatever units from scottish whatever units and so on. put in options for seasonal game play, or even monthly game play and there ya go.
this would even allow for fantasy regions/countries and just setting up completely new games and completely new factions. by using a single country and breaking up the thing into very small counties, or whatever, you wouldnt own, necessarily, entire provinces. you might just own several counties within that province. things like roads might actually show up on such a scaled map, thus giving 'travel routes' where armies wouldnt just 'jump' simultaneously to each other's adjoining counties, but rather meet on the roads. maps could actually be done for each county, instead of a few for each province.
so, let's not just limit it to asking for a few countries like this. let's get the editor that allows us to do them all, or even the make-believe. this is much more appealing to me.
an editor for the campaign map, an editor for the tactical maps (which we already have), a faction editor, and a unit editor...i think that would cover it, at least for single player.
for mp, ah, the mp boys are gonna cry on this one. but, i've come to realize that what the mp game is, is really already a mini-construction set. there are no provinces to base armies on, no incomes, no continuous conquests or anything else. each game is, here's your money, build your army from scratch. so, why not do this up exactly that way? you buy your basic men, with or without valor. you buy your basic training for your men. you buy them armor, if wanted, and weapons, and there you go, instant quaker army. it's a construction set. stick a faction/color label on them and off you go. you're the king; command your armories and smithies and stable masters to do it however you say it shld be done. but then, allow for these armies sets to be saved and loaded for each game, as long as they conform to the florin limits, then they work.
some of you keep arguing for 'historical accuracy' yet rail against options which would give you more accuracy. yes, the Almohads might not have the equivalent of swiss pikes and yes, it might not be a 'pure' game. so what? you can still make armies that ARE 'pure'. it's just a construction set. make it however you want it. and could we please get away from this 4 unit overcharge and the weird costs of upgrades? a sword is a sword. it takes X amount to manufacture. this manufacturing cost is NOT dependent on the unit that is going to use it! it's NOT! same with armor! when did chain mail become more expensive because it's being used by knights as opposed to peasants? that one still bugs me :)
so, what you get is that every basic man you buy is first off an untrained peasant. you want to find brave peasants, so you pay a little more. now you train them, you get peasants who are now no longer peasants. they are trained soldiers, trained in whatever, but they are no longer peasants. then you pay for equipment, armor, weapons, horses, etc. you could even add in armor for the horses as an item you buy, or for faster horses, or horses with more stamina.
now, all that sounds a bit complex for setting up a nice, fast, mp game, but, you also have pre-sets. that's what we're using now, pre-sets. the units are already made and ready to buy 'off the shelf'. that's fine. that's workable, for the most part. you could even do a mix and match with pre-sets and customs. you also allow for customs to be loaded from disk. you could even streamline this some more. allow for the making of custom units offline and saved to disk and loaded in for an mp or even an sp game.
think big, guys. think options. this is the way to go.
K.
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http://home.domaindlx.com/takiyama/kraellin/icons-1.gif
Words of wisdom Kraellin!
This game needs a user friendly Editor--and this is not a gripe! The game is just so well done that it innevitably puts one in a what if state of mind.
Personally, I would like to be able to play small to large campaigns, historical, mythical and hypothetical.
For example Arthur ala Geoffrey of Monmouth where he consolidates England/ Nordic countries, moves on to France and eventually fights the Roman (Byzantine) emperor. Maybe this would be 2 or 3 seperate campaigns but the flexibility to do it would have me hold up with my computer for weeks (while business, relationships etc. go to hell).
So I'll start a new business and get a new girlfriend!- *quickly look over shoulder to see if she's watching*.
I've had no problems with crashes etc. so instead of going on about the Patch (sorry) I should start a "Give us an Editor Now!" thread.
Excellent idea, Kraellin!
I really like the concept about not using presets, but rather having a basic "man" for which you have option to upgrade training (valour), and some sort of item creation set for the equipment. For example, you have "points" or slidebars with a maximum value to allocate in different aspect of the equipment, or the entire soldier (training, speed, endurance, etc.). It would be kinda like the ship designer set in the space empire sims, or item/character creation kit in rpgs. Of course, this may turn towards more fantasy setting, but it could as well turn to more "historically realistic" setting. It would just depend on what you want to do with your game. Of course, there could be presets for MP, or more casual players that don't want to be bothered with the micromanagement of this sort, but also complete customization of everything for those that do want to do all the work. Overall, a fantastic idea, if not for the expansion, then for the future incarnations of the series. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by hrvojej (edited 10-27-2002).]
They intentionally used the whole of Europe so that the game would attract people from the whole of Europe.
If it was only England/Great-Britain, then most Europeans wouldn't give a toss.
I wanna see better siege weapons like towers, battering rams, saps and ladders...
Maybe bigger units? (yes I run on max unit size and its still not big enough for me) or double the max number of units to 32?
el_slapper
10-27-2002, 13:56
slightly off-topic, but there are modders for Jagged Alliance 2. Some germans, called "Lords of the bytes", did create their own tools to mod the game. Chris Camfield, a developper of the game, did admit Sir-Tech didn't have such an efficient tool to create the game.....
So, back to MTW, small hypothesis : maybe isn't there a public editor because there is no editor at all. CA has focused on other directions, made a wonderful game, realistic up to pain(end of games), but couldn't handle EVERYTHING we could have phantasmed on..... I am myself a developper(in banking, I'm not an artist http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif ) and I know how hard is to manage such a number of things.
Anyways, playing on other maps would be ultimate. Whatever the map, England, Japan, the world, Manhattan or the Middle Earth...
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War is not about who is right, only about who is left
Orda Khan
10-27-2002, 23:29
Why is everyone making suggestions about the add on or the next in the Total War series??
They haven't yet addressed the awful problems in MTW. To think about another Total War game while MTW is almost unplayable is just a pipe dream.
Sorry guys but I think the series will end here. MTW has proved to be a shadow of all the hype we had to swallow before its launch.
Ideas are great when you can put them into practice but in MTW we can see that they can't.
.......Orda
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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."
Sjakihata
10-27-2002, 23:41
The expansion will be just as MI, you get to play as mongols http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Well, Orda, maybe because a lot of people don't share your opinion? And we're talking about the game potential, which by definition means that we're looking past the tech problems etc.. But it's all in the hands of the Gods of Market anyway, I guess. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
deejayvee
10-28-2002, 06:08
I like it Kraelin! It does seem like a logical next step.
Richard the Slayer
10-28-2002, 07:43
nice thinking Kraelin. Personally I'd be in heaven if I could refight battles in England Scots vs Egnlish on a huge map of England, and having it as multiplayer. BTW you guys know the expansion WILL include multiplayer campaign - however the campaigns prob wont include battles for obvious time purposes. All I can say is this game is a patch or expasion away from being one of the best strat games of all time.
shakespeare_101
10-28-2002, 07:55
Wonderful idea Kraelin...Give yourself a Dr. Pepper and a Butterfinger..Heck..take the rest of the day off http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Rosacrux
10-28-2002, 15:41
Kraelin, if you weren't a guy (you are a guy, aren't you?) I would fall in love with you.
That is such a marvelous idea... just imagine the potential... the new stuff coming out... Brilliant!!!
CA, we want the editor expansion. We'll promise to pay for it (go tell Activision) and we promise to even pay for it big bucks. But consider it, this is the single greatest idea there is.
I love the idea of points or slidebar...
and the editor tool is... is... oops, I think I have an erection...
didn't happen since 78...
Rosacrux
10-28-2002, 17:01
...1878? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
GilJaysmith
10-28-2002, 17:12
Quote Originally posted by Rosacrux:
CA, we want the editor expansion. We'll promise to pay for it (go tell Activision) and we promise to even pay for it big bucks. But consider it, this is the single greatest idea there is.[/QUOTE]
I don't think we're going to be producing any tools. We may be releasing the historical battle editor; that's it.
Quote Originally posted by GilJaysmith:
I don't think we're going to be producing any tools. We may be releasing the historical battle editor; that's it.[/QUOTE]
nasty Gil, you killed my erection...
Rosacrux
10-28-2002, 17:17
...there goes our dream...
[silly mode on]maybe... maybe... In the next TW game? ok, this might be 2-3 years away, but wouldn't that be something to hope for? [/silly mode off]
el_slapper
10-28-2002, 19:09
arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh. I wanna play on bizarre strat maps!!!!!
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War is not about who is right, only about who is left
Swoosh So
10-28-2002, 21:33
Lol guys it would be nice to have all these things but it also means we could make our own expansions instead of theirs http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif , I dont mind im looking forward to the exp (is there going to be 1? oh totalwar 3 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif ok now im getting carried away hmm ok ill settle for a patch for now if just to make the place a happy one again
[This message has been edited by Swoosh So (edited 10-28-2002).]
But we WANT it!!! and we want it NOW!!!
I picked this technique up from my nieces and nephews and it usually works. Keep your fingers crossed.
Kraellin
10-29-2002, 20:37
well, one of these days i'll tell ya how i figured out how to do a multi campaign and make it work.
in the meantime, it might be possible to make our own editors with something like VB6. surely a campaign map editor could be done using something like this.
K.
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http://home.domaindlx.com/takiyama/kraellin/icons-1.gif
For someone who knows what a VB6 is.
If someone...ahem...who knew what they were doing (hypothetically) were to take this on I hereby volunteer to be a drudge/lackey under their direction.Probably wouldn't be a damn bit of use but the spirit is willing.
"Hit any key" "Where's the Anykey"?
Richard the Slayer
10-30-2002, 08:25
Quote Originally posted by GilJaysmith:
I don't think we're going to be producing any tools. We may be releasing the historical battle editor; that's it.[/QUOTE]
I'm all for a historical battle editor, sounds like a much needed implement.
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