man, the AI is annoying!!

[Iliketodropbombs]

Why would a piddling little neighbor, with whom I have never been in conflict before, send a tiny stack of 1 cavalry and 2 men-at-arms, to siege a huge city?

My garrison is over 2x as large, and I have a full stack army 1 turn's march away. The AI does some really dumb stuff, and it kinda ruins the fun of the game sometimes...

[PBI]

Yep, that's the AI. It seems very fond of such suicidal attacks using token forces against massively defended targets. Doubly so if you happen to be allied. The very best one I ever had is when my ally England bypassed the lightly defended and vastly rich cities of the Low countries which were held by its enemy to attack Copenhagen by sea, the only city I had in the region, and which was defended by a huge stack of grizzled Crusader troops who I had just taken it with.

I believe the AI is programmed to attack the player regardless of how insane it is in order to keep the challenge up in the late game, since the rational thing for the AI to do when you control half the map would be to avoid war with you at all costs and if you are at war, to desperately beg for peace every turn (which might take some of the fun out of ruthlessly crushing them).

[Ibn-Khaldun]

... if you are at war, to desperately beg for peace every turn (which might take some of the fun out of ruthlessly crushing them).

The AI does that too...
They can beg for peace but once you accept it then they.. attack you again and the whole thing starts again:wall:

[Quintus.JC]

They tend to do that. On my campaign as Spain, while most of my forces were in Africa (after unifying the Iberian penisular). The French, who were my allies, besieged Pampalona with such a puny forces of peasant archers and sergent spearmen. Then were beaten easily but I didn't want to advance beyond the Iberian penisular into Europe yet, after a while the French came for a cease-fire, when I countered it said very generous, so I asked them to gave Toulouse and they agreed. After a while they besieged Toulouse again, beaten back and asked for a ceasefire, this time I asked for Bordeux and they gave me it again. The AI really does bizzare stuff at times. :sweatdrop:

[woad&fangs]

The AI does that too...
They can beg for peace but once you accept it then they.. attack you again and the whole thing starts again:wall:

As I understand it, the individual enemy stacks still have one of your cities as a target. Military and diplomatic AI isn't linked so they will continue on to their target regardless of whether or not you are at war. If you exit the game and then load it back up again the AIs forgets what it's targets were so you have a better chance at peace.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

As I understand it, the individual enemy stacks still have one of your cities as a target. Military and diplomatic AI isn't linked so they will continue on to their target regardless of whether or not you are at war. If you exit the game and then load it back up again the AIs forgets what it's targets were so you have a better chance at peace.

I never thought about that and never noticed that the AI don't make the attack-peace thing after I loaded the game again.

[Sheogorath]

I still say the classic 'Danish fleet sails into the Mediterranean to blockade Alexandria for one turn' is the best.

[Wraith94]

As I understand it, the individual enemy stacks still have one of your cities as a target. Military and diplomatic AI isn't linked so they will continue on to their target regardless of whether or not you are at war. If you exit the game and then load it back up again the AIs forgets what it's targets were so you have a better chance at peace.

I think you're right, because the Mongols/Timurids always go for a certain cit(ies) designated as "horde_target," which are Antioch, Jerusalem, Kiev, etc.

That's why I never make alliance with the Hordes anymore when I have these cities >_>

[yogol]

I think you're right, because the Mongols/Timurids always go for a certain cit(ies) designated as "horde_target," which are Antioch, Jerusalem, Kiev, etc.

That's why I never make alliance with the Hordes anymore when I have these cities >_>

What other cities are horde targets ?

[FactionHeir]

descr_regions.txt

[A Nerd]

Too bad you can't program some 'sense of pride' into the AI so that it would feel kind of dumb to attack with puny forces and/or be utterly destroyed by your tactial prowess...with which the current AI...even I can put them away quite handilly...or mabey give it something to gain...a reward perhaps...obviously I am technically challenged...watch too much star wars I guess...

[Yoyoma1910]

Too bad you can't program some 'sense of pride' into the AI so that it would feel kind of dumb to attack with puny forces and/or be utterly destroyed by your tactial prowess


I imagine that would only make them attack more. An overwhelming sense of pride has caused many smaller nations to take on larger nations throughout history. A prime example is the 1959 invasion of the U.S. by The Duchy of Grand Fenwick.


















:beam:

[Old Geezer]

If the stupid AI annoys you, try a mod. The IQ of the AI is about doubled - from 40 to 80. I have been playing a Sicilian LTC campaign in which Milan, Moors, Venice, and Hungary have all been attacking with strong forces in a way that should be the way the Mongols go after you - relentlessly until they are destroyed.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I wish every AI faction was designed to relentlessly attack you with competently assembled stacks, sent in a coordinated and never-ending assault, until you expired or conquered the map.

Then I'd up the Mongol invasion by about 10 times their invasion force, and change the game files so that every settlement in the game is a horde target.

Call it Askthepizzaguy mode. Anyone willing to make this mod for me? :charge:

[CavalryCmdr]

I can do that :) I already have a 'kill the human' mode AI set up so it would be rather easy. The only question is how you would want the map set up at the start?
1. I can set it up so you could play as any faction but you'd have to give them 6 turns or so to aquire rebel lands and get themselves set up,
2. I could set it up so you would have to be a specific faction and have the others attack you right from turn 1.

Option 2 would obviously give you the most challange, but I can pretty much assure you option 1 would be satisfactory and have more re-play value, all you'd have to do is hit end-turn 5 or 6 times before you did anything.

Also, what turn would you want the Mongol and Timurid invasions to occur?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can do that :) I already have a 'kill the human' mode AI set up so it would be rather easy. The only question is how you would want the map set up at the start?
1. I can set it up so you could play as any faction but you'd have to give them 6 turns or so to aquire rebel lands and get themselves set up,
2. I could set it up so you would have to be a specific faction and have the others attack you right from turn 1.

Option 2 would obviously give you the most challange, but I can pretty much assure you option 1 would be satisfactory and have more re-play value, all you'd have to do is hit end-turn 5 or 6 times before you did anything.

Also, what turn would you want the Mongol and Timurid invasions to occur?


1. I want the map to be the same M2TW vanilla map.

2. I want the AI as hard and as aggressive as you can make them, barring infinite money or other lame cheap ways of doing that.

3. I don't want to be forced to pick a certain faction. And I want the AI to be normal (aggressive but no extra money) except for the Mongol invasion. IF POSSIBLE.

4. I would like the Mongol invasions to begin at turns 1, 5, and 10... and the Timurid invasions to begin at turns 50, 55, and 60.

I would like each invasion horde to be 10 stacks of troops, once every 5 turns, until all 30 stacks exist on the board.

-alternatively-

1. I want the same map as the M2TW map.

2. I want the AI as evil as you can make them, barring infinite money. If you're giving them a florin boost, tell me how much.

3. I want the hordes to arrive on turn 1, 5, and 10 Mongols, and turn 50, 55, and 60 Timurids.
Normal sized horde.

___________________________

Askthepizzaguy mode: Begin

[Lancome]

That has happened to me before. Once the Mongols just sat infront of my Starting City (Russia)... for a good decade when They actually decided to move to Asia Minor... I was like WTF :furious3: I raised an army for nothing

[Askthepizzaguy]

My feeling about the horde, and my largest single complaint about the game...

You butcher the enemy, you conquer the idiot AI fools, you smash every foe and hold every territory. Then you face the most demonic army ever to rise against you... and it just sits there.






Triple the size, and tell them to CRUSH ME!!!!

[CavalryCmdr]

Ok, vanilla map and starting forces except they will be moved around for AI performance benefit. It is also necassary to increase movement rate, to counter some pathfinding issues. Those 2 changes are necassary to make exceptable AI, I'm sure this will benefit yourself as well.

The AI will only recive a one-time bonus of 5k (on turn 3, to allow them to get thier own financial building built.)

They will recive a refund of 1/2 all they spend on agents (spies, assasins, generals just the general himself, NOT the bodyguard upkeep cost, princesses, diplomats, priests and admirals.) This is because the AI will spam agents and spawn generals in a manner that is uncontrolable, they also tend to use less then 1/2 of them in any reasonable manner. I cant give you a total bonus recived because it is not a set number, it is 1/2 what they spend on these agents. While I can make it without this bonus if you want, you will quickly notice the larger (and therefore more fun to kill) AI factions get bogged down, even as thier armies die they will be unable to recruit more.

Otherwise the only changes will be in behaviour. In the beginning 5 turns any faction you border (including the rebels to an extent) will attack you immediate while any you dont will attack the rebel faction to gain land. After turn 5 they will all attack you mercilessly, they will not attack each-other, nor except peace (actually they may say they except peace in the diplomacy screen, but it wont mean anything.)

The mongol and Timmurid invasions are a bit more complicated, as it is immposible to exert much influence over them while they are in 'horde' mode. I can only set it so they attack you after they have settled one region. I will attempt narrow thier target to a single region, so they will hopefully v-line it for that region and settle, then attack you. I'm not too familliar with the scripting there so I cannot guarntee when the first wave will hit, but the second and third wave will hit 5 and 10 turns after the first, each as powerfull as the entire mongol (and timurid) invasions in Vanilla.

If thats all exceptable I should be able to upload it in about 28 hours.

Oh, I dont have Kingdoms so it will be M2TW 1.2, it should be compatible with 1.3, but not the Kingdoms.exe

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thank you very much, I look forward to cutting my teeth on a stronger opponent.

When I have chewed them up and spit them out, I will give my compliments to the chef.

[andrewt]

It's a problem with game philosophy, imo. Compare it with the Civ line of games or even Warcraft 3. Firaxis, in Civ 4, decided that they didn't want the end game to drag on in an unfun way. They introduced vassalage so that once you've beaten an enemy, you don't have to hunt for every hidden city they had. You could simply make them your vassal and they count as defeated. Similarly, in Warcraft 3, Blizzard made enemies' units and buildings auto-reveal to their opponents 1 minute after they have no town hall left. It was made to keep players from delaying victories by hiding farms.

CA, on the other hand, decided to make finishing a game as annoying as possible. Once you've hit 100k florins, your generals start getting all sorts of nasty vices and decreases in virtues. Once you've conquered enough land, your allies start backstabbing you even though they have no good reason to do so. In Civ, barbarians become less of a problem as the game goes on. In Total War, bandits get worse, especially once your empire becomes very big.

Some of the dumb decisions done by the AI are basically a function of the "all factions turn against the player in the end" game code. It's pretty annoying and one of the reasons some people in the Org find it hard to actually finish games.

[CavalryCmdr]

Askthepizzaguy_mode.zip @ http://hosted.filefront.com/JakeCavCom/

That's about as good as it gets within the limitations of the Vanilla map/startup. Questions or comments PM please, if you like it give it a thread of it's own, it's got little to do with this thread topic.

--------------------------

I figure I should make at least one post regarding the thread topic:

Most of the annoying AI features here can be fixed in various mods. Actually most of them are easy to fix, problem is finding a balance.


I believe the AI is programmed to attack the player regardless of how insane it is in order to keep the challenge up in the late game, since the rational thing for the AI to do when you control half the map would be to avoid war with you at all costs and if you are at war, to desperately beg for peace every turn (which might take some of the fun out of ruthlessly crushing them).
It is, It's based on how long youve been at peace, probably the single most annoying feature of the AI really, as it is the cause of most of the 'anoying' features described so far. Except hordes which are entirely thier own messed up ai format.

I have to say the most annoying thing I've seen the AI do is quite the opposite, it besiged 2 weakly defended towns with 3 almost full stack armies! For about 20 seconds I was all "Yay! the AI did something intelegent!" then, the next turn, they left...

[Askthepizzaguy]

How do I install it?

EDIT: Nevermind I read the readme file! I hope it works! THANK YOU!

[Askthepizzaguy]

CavalryCmdr:

Installed as instructed, but does not work.

Clicking on Play Askthepizzaguy Mode.bat Only brings up a box briefly which then disappears before I can even read it.

I have windows Vista and Kingdoms Gold, if that matters.

EDIT: Tried reinstalling, now it works. When at first you don't succeed...

OK no more thread hijacking. All other posts should be done in a separate thread or via PM.