View Full Version : Unit Sizes....
Current standard unit sizes are:
Spears 100
Missiles 60
Swords 60
Cavalry 40
Royalty/Bodyguards 20
Naptha throwers 12
What i propose is to kind of even them up a little, without completely removing this aspect. Take for example:
Spears 100
Missiles 75
Swords 75
Cavalry 50
Royalty 25
Naptha throwers 15
All siege units x1.5 men
I think that would result in a more balanced make up in relation to the 100 man units....no?
Discuss. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Juan Madsen
10-28-2002, 20:24
Yes, possibly the number of men per type of unit should be reconsidered.
As I have argued in other threads, from my point of view, the large difference in unit sizes could be one important reason of the poor behaviour of some units against others. The cavalry v. spearmen case has been widely discussed in this forum.
I agree with your proposition and suggest an even higher number of men for the cavalry units, as much as 60 in the standard configuration.
Increasing the number of missile troops would also help make them more useful relative to other units.
The same with siege engine troops, these units at the moment are rendered useless too easily because of the small number of operators. The Ai always merges siege units after a battle and as a result often ends up with a 20 man trebuchet unit and a 1 man trebuchet unit instead of 2 working units of 10 and 11 men.
Would you suggest 60 man cavalry (30 man bodyguards) instead of what i have of 50 (25)?
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Juan Madsen
10-28-2002, 23:06
Yes, I believe the main reason behind the weak calvary charges is that a charge of 40 men againts a 100 unit can do damage, but not enough. Particullarly if the 100 men unit is flanked by more 100 men units.
60 men in a standard size cavalry unit is certainly stronger and have certainly more chances of collapsing the defending infantry unit. Quality of men is very important, but numbers are important as well. With incresased size in cavalry units we would be able to perform those mighty knight charges that were characteristic of the medieval wars.
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men matter most
Hi,
I have changed Paladin's 1092 mod so that all units are 60, except for siege, naptha and assassins. This one change seems to accomplish what most want. Cav is to be feared and rules the field, unless you have many spears and archers. You must greatly outnumber cav with other arms to take them on and win. And you'll suffer serious losses doing so.
Ciao,
V'ger gone
DOC that is a good number of troops. And no, cav should stay at 50.
At first 75 seemed a bit stange for Archers, but when you think about it it fits perfectly for three ranks, but hardly any other.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
whatever it take 2 balance the game im up for it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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Quote Originally posted by +DOC+:
Current standard unit sizes are:
Spears 100
Missiles 60
Swords 60
Cavalry 40
Royalty/Bodyguards 20
Naptha throwers 12
What i propose is to kind of even them up a little, without completely removing this aspect. Take for example:
Spears 100
Missiles 75
Swords 75
Cavalry 50
Royalty 25
Naptha throwers 15
All siege units x1.5 men
I think that would result in a more balanced make up in relation to the 100 man units....no?
Discuss. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif[/QUOTE]
Did you change the cost per unit accordingly or you left it as it is?
No, so far, i've just left the costs as they are.
i haven't actually implemented all of these changes yet, i wanted to first open them for discussion and see what people made of them.
I've tried the siege units x1.5 men and the naptha thrower increase and believe these work very well.
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Dionysus9
10-29-2002, 12:48
I think you should be able to choose the unitsize and pay for it appropriately.
If you want a unit of 100 royal knights, well, then fork over the cash.
If you can only afford 87, well then, you should be able to buy 87.
I mean, you are the general, right? Shouldnt you be able to customize your unit size?
Or does that crackbrained king force me to have 40 men per cavalry unit because each one symbolizes a grape he had with lunch?
[This message has been edited by Dionysus9 (edited 10-29-2002).]
Which is the file that I can mod these changes?
Unit support costs will automatically increase if you increase the number in each unit.
So be prepared for expensive cavalry units should you increase their numbers.
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Juan Madsen
10-30-2002, 14:46
Yes, DOC,
is there an archive were I can go and make changes on units sizes on my own ?
Hi,
Yeah, I'll add to what +DOC+ said: a 60-man royal knight unit costs 187 per turn. (Ow, ow, my aching wallet.) However, to deal with other armies you almost have to have some if they do.
You know, I've seen another funny thing playing with 60-man units. I don't see the AI dithering in front of my arrows like I used to. Now, they just charge. Sometimes not right away, but nothing like the stooging they used to do.
My battles are much bloodier than they used to be, unless I have a bunch of horse archers/xbows. But even then, the butcher's bill is higher than it used to be.
Ciao,
V'ger gone
Are you guys not aware of the performance tab in the options screen???
There is where you can easily get large cavalry units (80)...
Of course, I guess the point is that you also get units of 200 Chivalric Sergeants to deal with...
To the question about file - the file to change is "crusader_unit_prod_11.txt" (or something close to that. It's in the MTW main directory.
Here all units are listed with size and all other attributes. Be prepared for a bit of work though.
Well... Royals should never go beyond 25... The reason Denmark don't expand that much is because they never have the forces to do it because the Royals cost too much. It would not help if they cost even more in upkeep. Then perhaps we would see other factions never expanding.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
the only way to help the Danes is to give them heaps more mulah... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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