View Full Version : Creative Assembly Missile fire and morale
How exactly does the -2 morale penalty for missile fire work? Does it last through the entire battle? Is it cumulative with other units' missile fire?
Taking a couple units of skirmishers might actually be worth it if the morale penalty is long-lasting and/or cumulative....
The units that r bein shot @ Get a -2 .. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
It is working as long as you see the red icon on your unit with arrows on them... Can't get more simple than that.
But what I really want to know is if friendly fire counts... If not the n it can actually pay off to fire into the melee.
I have heard rumors about this and that would explain why the AI fires so much into the melee.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Hakonarson
10-29-2002, 05:40
Hmm...well the red "under fire" icon doesn't care whether the arows are "friendly" or not - why woudl the men care whether htye were beign skewered by friendly arrows or enemy ones??
Hopefully under fire applies regardless of who is shooting at you!
I would suspect it is equal, but some people have posted indications of otherwise, and I would like to know if it is true. That would make archers much more valuable as they could fire into melee with no regard to friendly losses.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Kraxis, are you certain about this? The under fire icon only flashes for a moment, so what you're saying is that the morale penalty essentially disappears instantly?
If that is the case, then the penalty is barely relevant at all....
Hakonarson
10-29-2002, 07:33
The "under fire" icon flashes for a couple of seconds each time the unit takes a casualty from archery - if it's only flashing every now and then then you're not taking casualties very often (which may or may not mean you're not taking many casualties!!)
I noticed it in the historical campaign as the French 100 yrs war - Loire Valley battle - the castle towers only inflict casualties intermittantly at long range.
I made a little test that verifies what Kraxis and Hakonarson are saying. The red arrow icon illuminates when you take one or more casualties and gives -2 morale to the unit while it's lit. The icon stays lit for 8 seconds.
In WE/MI, the -2 morale effect did not increase if a unit came under fire from two or more units. However, you would be taking more casualties and that has both a dynamic and a cumulative effect on morale.
[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 10-29-2002).]
ShaiHulud
10-29-2002, 08:40
Hey, Puzz! Wow! You must have done something special to earn so distinctive a icon. The rest of us have these military things, while you get to sport a whiskey flask! (heheheh)
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O stranger, Go tell the Spartans that we lie here, obedient to their will.....
Quote Originally posted by Dorkus:
Kraxis, are you certain about this? The under fire icon only flashes for a moment, so what you're saying is that the morale penalty essentially disappears instantly?
If that is the case, then the penalty is barely relevant at all.... [/QUOTE]
Yes, that is why you have to keep up the pressure on a certain unit.
In STW you only had to have a single archer to force the penalty onto a unit, I guess they desided it was unfair.
Those 8 seconds are enough to let the archers hit one more time. So if they kill one man in each volley it will be enough to keep the penalty up.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Hi ShaiHulud.
Nice to see you back in Total War land. I hope you're finding MTW enjoyable. Wait for the upcoming patch before trying online play, but I know you're mostly into SP which should also be getting some nice improvements.
My icon is for being daimyo of my clan. All the clan leaders get that icon. The Pi is the result of a recommendation by Kurando for the extensive testing and analysis I did on unit balance in STW and WE/MI.
MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~
longjohn2
10-31-2002, 03:20
I changed the way this works for MTW
Now you get the morale penalty for being shot at only if you take a casualty. The same applies for the extra penalty for being shot by guns or artillery. Unlike STW the penalty applies whether or not the firing unit intended to shoot its victim, so friendly fire victims get do get the penalty. Shooting into a melee with artillery or naphtha bombers is a chancy business.
The penalty lasts for time that varies with the rate of fire of the firing unit. The idea being that it doesn't go away until it's clear that the firer has stopped shooting at it, or is no longer shooting effectively.
Richard the Slayer
10-31-2002, 03:27
Quote Originally posted by longjohn2:
I changed the way this works for MTW
Now you get the morale penalty for being shot at only if you take a casualty. The same applies for the extra penalty for being shot by guns or artillery. Unlike STW the penalty applies whether or not the firing unit intended to shoot its victim, so friendly fire victims get do get the penalty. Shooting into a melee with artillery or naphtha bombers is a chancy business.
The penalty lasts for time that varies with the rate of fire of the firing unit. The idea being that it doesn't go away until it's clear that the firer has stopped shooting at it, or is no longer shooting effectively.[/QUOTE]
Wow God himself has spoken! *bowing down* "i'm not worthy, i'm not worthy!"
Richard the Slayer
10-31-2002, 03:33
Quote Originally posted by longjohn2:
I changed the way this works for MTW
Now you get the morale penalty for being shot at only if you take a casualty. The same applies for the extra penalty for being shot by guns or artillery. Unlike STW the penalty applies whether or not the firing unit intended to shoot its victim, so friendly fire victims get do get the penalty. Shooting into a melee with artillery or naphtha bombers is a chancy business.
The penalty lasts for time that varies with the rate of fire of the firing unit. The idea being that it doesn't go away until it's clear that the firer has stopped shooting at it, or is no longer shooting effectively.[/QUOTE]
This should improves things significantly for shooting at friendly units in melee. Previously players said what the heck and fired at their own troops almsot every time. Edward III at Falkirk was considered the exception to the rule - firing into a melee on your own troops wasnt always the greatest idea. Hopefully the -2 to your own troops will make players think twice about firing on their own men. Very well done, very well done indeed.
Quote Originally posted by longjohn2:
I changed the way this works for MTW
Now you get the morale penalty for being shot at only if you take a casualty. The same applies for the extra penalty for being shot by guns or artillery. Unlike STW the penalty applies whether or not the firing unit intended to shoot its victim, so friendly fire victims get do get the penalty. Shooting into a melee with artillery or naphtha bombers is a chancy business.
The penalty lasts for time that varies with the rate of fire of the firing unit. The idea being that it doesn't go away until it's clear that the firer has stopped shooting at it, or is no longer shooting effectively.[/QUOTE]
Thanks longjohn! Appreciate it.
Quote Originally posted by longjohn2:
Unlike STW the penalty applies whether or not the firing unit intended to shoot its victim, so friendly fire victims get do get the penalty.[/QUOTE]
Thank you. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
That settled a lot of things.... Though it diminished the archers a bit (but I hardly ever fire into melee anyway).
Then one has to wonder why the AI does it so much, especially if my troops are supperior and will take the penalty that much better.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
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