View Full Version : mount/dismout
a lot of people feel like spears are too powerful, and heavy cav unpowered.
One alternative way to redress the balance is to expand the mount/dismount system (I've never seen it mentioned much, so it' a fair bet it not widely used). Why not be able to dismount DURING THE GAME (with impossibility to remount during the game, though).
If you face large amounts of spears, just dismount and chew them up. It would rebalance a bit the anti spear spectrum of possibilities, with the rock scisor sytem.
What would the downside be for doing this during a battle? What would happen to the mounts? Interesting idea though.
Historically, does anyone know if units would ever dismount during a battle, then remount or whatever?
[This message has been edited by sbreden (edited 10-30-2002).]
either the mounts disapear, either we see 20 or 40 stallions run to the closest edge of the map.
I don't know if it's been seen at all historically either.
Cardinal
10-30-2002, 21:42
Quote Originally posted by sbreden:
Historically, does anyone know if units would ever dismount during a battle, then remount or whatever?[/QUOTE]
The french tried it in the 100 year war, after Crecy, I think. After experiencing what a head on charge on English achers could do to mounted knights, and the obstacles left in the way for the next charge, (lots of big dead horses) the french though it wiser to charge on foot.
This reminds me of a friend I had at university who's contact-lense became loose. He took it out to readjust it, but the wind caught it and blew it away. He then decided to take out his second contact-lense and let the wind take it to see where it landed, and then find his first contact lense in the same spot where the second landed. Well, it might have seemed a good idea at the time, but was about as successful as charging, in full armour, English achers on foot.
Knights often had remounts though, incase their horses got killed or injured. Is this somthing for MTW??
[This message has been edited by Cardinal (edited 10-30-2002).]
It certainly happened historically but whether in the context of an MTW battle I'm not so sure.
Cavalry regularly dismounted to preserve their horses and to reduce their casualties from missile fire.
If they were required to fight on foot then typically, one man in three would be designated as a horse holder which reduces the fighting strength of the unit.
However, presumably knights would have a huge army of servants etc to look after their horses so that may not apply.
In the Bernard Cornwell novels the English Longbowmen all rode horses only dismounting to fight. Sort of mounted infantry but I don't know how well researched that fact is.
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Didz
Fortis balore et armis
Pachinko
10-30-2002, 21:52
Quote In the Bernard Cornwell novels the English Longbowmen all rode horses only dismounting to fight. Sort of mounted infantry but I don't know how well researched that fact is.[/QUOTE]
HAA! Looks like a Mechanised Battailion. or a Panzergrenadier. Hehe!
P.
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Crush your enemies, see them driven before you on the field of battle, and hear the lamentation of their women.
Dev quote>>Sigh, ye of little faith. Don't assume everything is a bug.
[This message has been edited by Pachinko (edited 10-30-2002).]
chunkynut
10-30-2002, 22:05
Happened loads historicly.
The french would dismount to make a sheild wall v longbowmen.
The Crusaders dismounted v turk horse archers.
Reasons: Horses were not (often) well armoured, they caught arrows more and so rather than lose your horse (or worse have a mad thrashing one) you would dismount.
de la Valette
10-30-2002, 22:17
I tended to dismount all kinghts obtained from crusades earlier in the game as they kill so damn quick. Now i have adjusted the movement speed of all armoured foot units its just not worth it as they crawl along (as it should be).
As a side note heavy cav are much more useful with adjusted movement speeds as flanks tend to be much more exposed due to the time taken to reposition troops.
Quote Originally posted by Didz:
It certainly happened historically but whether in the context of an MTW battle I'm not so sure.
Cavalry regularly dismounted to preserve their horses and to reduce their casualties from missile fire.
If they were required to fight on foot then typically, one man in three would be designated as a horse holder which reduces the fighting strength of the unit.
However, presumably knights would have a huge army of servants etc to look after their horses so that may not apply.
In the Bernard Cornwell novels the English Longbowmen all rode horses only dismounting to fight. Sort of mounted infantry but I don't know how well researched that fact is.
[/QUOTE]
What if the mounts were a unit purchased separate from the unit that used them. There could be different categories of horses as you move through the tech tree. you can then assign appropriate units to use the horses in particular battles. The unit would have to be "mount capable" to utilize the horse unit. The horse unit would take calsualties individually as well. So, potentially there might not be enough mounts to go around. Included in the horse unit could be the servants that cared for and tended to them.
...I just started that Cornwell novel, looks promising. I did think that was a bit odd when the book mentioned that "modern" longbowmen were mounted when on the march.
Quote Originally posted by sbreden:
What if the mounts were a unit purchased separate from the unit that used them. There could be different categories of horses as you move through the tech tree. you can then assign appropriate units to use the horses in particular battles. The unit would have to be "mount capable" to utilize the horse unit. The horse unit would take calsualties individually as well. So, potentially there might not be enough mounts to go around. Included in the horse unit could be the servants that cared for and tended to them.
...I just started that Cornwell novel, looks promising. I did think that was a bit odd when the book mentioned that "modern" longbowmen were mounted when on the march.
[/QUOTE]
It 's a good idea on paper but I think it would quickly become a nightmare to micromanager. I already have units of 6 arcjers or 13 militias running around, scattered remains of full units after nasty fights, and to merge them or resupply them is already a pain in the b***, so with horses...
chunkynut
10-31-2002, 18:25
To all the people who dont believe that knights dismounted, im sorry but can most horses jump walls of 3 feet with a knight riding it?? no.
Obsticals on the battle field wern't just numerous, they were mandatory for the defender in a fight. Pot holes, stakes the use of unnatural boundaries ie field walls, buildings etc. All these were the cause of many failures in assualts so the knights chose to fight on foot so the problems that arise with horses thrashing about etc were overcome.
Sakurai, Saionji
10-31-2002, 19:06
Make it work similiar to a siege weapon, if they dismount they can leave the horses, but make it so that the horses by themselves are very low morale units and if the enemy manages to place a few wellaimed shots into the little group of horses they will run off the map like a fleeing unit but will be unrallyable, maybe they can be rallied some other way, but just clicking rhe rally button is unrealistic hehe.
vexatious
11-01-2002, 02:37
also, if the horses rout, the dismounted knights suffer a loss of morale.
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