NSFW area?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Since the tavern is shut down due to negativity and such (which i think is such bull) can someone create a NSFW forum with a disclaimer to seperate the EB team from some peoples opinions?

[Hooahguy]

i dont know, but i dont think i can come back to these forums in my right mind anymore....
see ya'll, its been fun....

[Che Roriniho]

I agree with both of you, comrades. Hooahguy, do you want help taking the barrels out, and removing that pilum that was thrown at the wall, and we have since been using to prop Appo up with?

Boo. Hiss.

I would certainly agree with a NSFW area.

[abou]

What do you mean it's bull? This is the EB forum, not your playhouse. There is a Backroom on the ORG for your meanderings. That is what it is there for. The EB forum is for the discussion of the mod and history.

[Hax]

I'm with abou here, for once.

For all your offtopic stuff, here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=106828). I liked the Tavern, but Foot was right in closing it.

[Bellum]

Check your link. :P

[a completely inoffensive name]

What do you mean it's bull? This is the EB forum, not your playhouse. There is a Backroom on the ORG for your meanderings. That is what it is there for. The EB forum is for the discussion of the mod and history.

I hate it when the reason things get shut down is "well people have been very rude to others and that makes us look bad so we have to close this down" why? those people are idiots. if you get insulted because you said something stupid maybe you should stop saying stupid things not just blame the EB team for being "a bunch of douches and very mean people".

[Che Roriniho]

What do you mean it's bull? This is the EB forum, not your playhouse. There is a Backroom on the ORG for your meanderings. That is what it is there for. The EB forum is for the discussion of the mod and history.

It is 100% Beef, because the entire reason the Tavern was set up was to keep the crappy questions/random crap out of the main forum. A filter, if you will. As to the accusations of us being insulting to new members, I say this:

Lulwut?

Where exactly was this insulting? If anything, it was the most welcoming of the forum, as it had a real atmosphere. Hooahguy was a fantastic Barkeep, and kept everyone in order.

Yes there was random crap in there, but that was kinda what it was for. The Backroom doesn't have the same atmosphere, nor is it EB only, unlike the Tavern, which results in the regulars becoming knowledgable in the inner workings and the faces of EB, which is something the Backroom could never do.

[Che Roriniho]

I hate it when the reason things get shut down is "well people have been very rude to others and that makes us look bad so we have to close this down" why? those people are idiots. if you get insulted because you said something stupid maybe you should stop saying stupid things not just blame the EB team for being "a bunch of douches and very mean people".

Ave, brother. This forum has become something of a second hme for me, mainly because of the subtle black humour of th Tav.

[abou]

The Tavern shouldn't have been there to begin with. It was a mistake to allow it in the first place, it was a mistake to reopen it, and it was a mistake to leave it going as long as we did.

[Bellum]

I hate it when the reason things get shut down is "well people have been very rude to others and that makes us look bad so we have to close this down" why? those people are idiots. if you get insulted because you said something stupid maybe you should stop saying stupid things not just blame the EB team for being "a bunch of douches and very mean people".

Seems to be a problem with your attitude. There is no reason to be rude to anyone, no matter your opinion of them.

[Che Roriniho]

The Tavern shouldn't have been there to begin with. It was a mistake to allow it in the first place, it was a mistake to reopen it, and it was a mistake to leave it going as long as we did.

Well, we're sorry for not conforming to your utopia of the EB forum being a second branch of the British Library: Full of history and wonderful things, but fundamentally dull and quiet.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Seems to be a problem with your attitude. There is no reason to be rude to anyone, no matter your opinion of them.

I don't see anything wrong with my attitude, and I disagree about being rude to people, the first thing I did when I came to the EB forums was read the FAQ and frequent issues, that is common courtesy towards everyone that posts here. If you cant show basic courtesy towards people by reading for 15 friggen minutes before opening your mouth then yes you deserve to be pelted by rude and sarcastic remarks.

[Che Roriniho]

I don't see anything wrong with my attitude, and I disagree about being rude to people, the first thing I did when I came to the EB forums was read the FAQ and frequent issues, that is common courtesy towards everyone that posts here. If you cant show basic courtesy towards people by reading for 15 friggen minutes before opening your mouth then yes you deserve to be pelted by rude and sarcastic remarks.

Or just generally showing basic courtesy in general. Reading is not needed.

[Bellum]

I don't see anything wrong with my attitude, and I disagree about being rude to people, the first thing I did when I came to the EB forums was read the FAQ and frequent issues, that is common courtesy towards everyone that posts here. If you cant show basic courtesy towards people by reading for 15 friggen minutes before opening your mouth then yes you deserve to be pelted by rude and sarcastic remarks.

So courtesy only counts toward yourself? You don't have to show anyone any courtesy to anyone else?

That's a very immature point of view, and if that was the norm in the tavern, it's no wonder it was shut down. A community needs to promote courtesy for it to be embraced. You can tell someone they are doing something wrong without being an ass.

[satalexton]

ahh the fall of the republic condensed into a modern day forum...Tiberius trying for another go at tribune, and the senate trying to keep their land-grabbing rights...

[Che Roriniho]

ahh the fall of the republic condensed into a modern day forum...Tiberius trying for another go at tribune, and the senate trying to keep their land-grabbing rights...

Exactly. Except I would similarie it more with the fall of Emperor Zhu Di. (Read 1421, NAO!)

@Bellum
I think you might have misread Mike's post. Mind you I had to read it a few times. But anyway, what he's saying is that you reap what you sow. If you charge headlong into our phalanx, there can be only one outcome.

[a completely inoffensive name]

So courtesy only counts toward yourself? You don't have to show anyone any courtesy to anyone else?

That's a very immature point of view, and if that was the norm in the tavern, it's no wonder it was shut down. A community needs to promote courtesy for it to be embraced. You can tell someone they are doing something wrong without being an ass.

I am not saying courtesy only counts towards myself, I am trying to show courtesy to you by not swearing like a madman but my point is how can you have a productive forum if all new people have absolutely no idea what the rules are. If you are gonna post, you need to read up on the FAQ at least before posting. Its like the EB forums have become a factory where all the new workers are breaking the machines and the higher management lets it all slide because they dont want a fight to break out among the workers or something. (where did i come up with this metaphor lol?)

[russia almighty]

Hey, how do you get into the back room anyway?

[Che Roriniho]

(where did i come up with this metaphor lol?)

The Luddite Rebellion.

But anyway. I can't see anyplausable reason against what Mike is suggesting. All it would require would be a seperate Sub-Forum, call it The Tavern, have a rules sticky, make Hoohaguy mod of that forum, and there is no other problems.

And RA, that's another reason for the Taven. The Backroom is inexpicably closed.

[russia almighty]

Could always set up an offsite board.

It'd take like 5 minutes just to set up a simple forum with one board if you don't care about colors.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Hey, how do you get into the back room anyway?

Go to "The Guild" main page, down to the misc. section, at the bottom of it should be "tavern" and then the 3rd subsection in that is "backroom".

[Hax]

¨
Hey, how do you get into the back room anyway?

PM one of the moderators there.

==============

Of course, the link I meant to give is here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=12).

==============

Also, if I may quote Foot:


¨

This is the ORG board. These are private sub-forums; and the EB team has been granted to moderate these forums as it sees fit so long it remains within the ORG forums.

Henceforth, the EB Team will seriously consider at least temporarily banning repeating offenders for spamming or confrontational language. We also feel at liberty to delete posts which we find to be SPAM or confrontational. Furthermore, we are closing down the EB Tavern and any similar threads as they foster the type of behavior that we want to prevent from happening this board.

And threads like these seriously don't help.

[russia almighty]

I see nothing when I click on it.

[Bellum]

I think you might have misread Mike's post. Mind you I had to read it a few times. But anyway, what he's saying is that you reap what you sow. If you charge headlong into our phalanx, there can be only one outcome.

No, I understood that message perfectly well, and he's absolutely right. For every action there are consequences. For instance, if a thread is created that seems to promote rude behavior, a mod might come and lock it for going against the forums interests.



I am not saying courtesy only counts towards myself, I am trying to show courtesy to you by not swearing like a madman but my point is how can you have a productive forum if all new people have absolutely no idea what the rules are. If you are gonna post, you need to read up on the FAQ at least before posting. Its like the EB forums have become a factory where all the new workers are breaking the machines and the higher management lets it all slide because they dont want a fight to break out among the workers or something. (where did i come up with this metaphor lol?)

It actually works quite well. In every forum I've ever been a member. It can be annoying, sure, but there will always be people who either don't know to read the rules or don't know where to find them. Being rude, name calling, general bad will and attitudes, it only multiplies the problem.

[Che Roriniho]

Go to "The Guild" main page, down to the misc. section, at the bottom of it should be "tavern" and then the 3rd subsection in that is "backroom".

I couldn't get in. Besides, as I already said, it's like moving a real pub. All the faces have gone, you don't know anyone, and the atmosphere goes.

[satalexton]

...now all we need is a Ivlivs Caesar and a Cato to match...

how bout we start a different forum, and mark it as a 'EB-fans forum'?

[a completely inoffensive name]

It actually works quite well. In every forum I've ever been a member. It can be annoying, sure, but there will always be people who either don't know to read the rules or don't know where to find them. Being rude, name calling, general bad will and attitudes, it only multiplies the problem.

So it seems to me, that your opinion on the best solution for this problem is to not do anything?

[Megas Methuselah]

I see nothing when I click on it.

Yeah, me too. I couldn't make a new thread because I was denied access to it. So how are we to use the backroom?
:inquisitive:

[Bellum]

The best solution is, as always, to be polite, and treat everyone like human beings as they deserve.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Well I fail to see how I have a responsibility to be nice to everyone and point everyone new in the right direction towards the FAQ when the FAQ should be the first thing that catches your eye when you enter.
Maybe instead of having 19 stickies with the FAQ hidden in the middle of them we could limit to idk maybe 8 at the very most, because honestly, its pointless to have things like the old preview topic, when the EB is moving onto EB2 and releasing the faction previews for that. Same goes with the development art. Oh and the screenshot competitions as well because those are so popular i doubt those are gonna get pushed to page 4.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well this issue isn't like "we don't like the Tavern any more; we close it now."

I think I can speak for the team in saying nobody particularly liked the Tavern itself. As far as I can see most of us including myself, used not to mind it either. Just one of those threads you know. At time one might even commit to actually reading it or posting there.

But we've had rather [massive] outbreaks of SPAM, trolling, rudeness and general bad behaviour in this forum on multiple occasions. One such occasion saw the Tavern shut down; rudeness saw a page or two of the Tavern being wiped from these boards; and we've had another such occasion not too long ago.

The thing with a threat made in the Tavern to flood another mod's subfora with SPAM made us decide to do something that was pending for a long time. Much of the reasoning as outlined in the posts by Foot refer more to previous misbehaviour than to the last incident in the Tavern.

We do have a strong feeling that a lot of the misbehaviour elsewhere on these fora is fostered or incited at the Tavern; hence why it had to go first.

[Che Roriniho]

The best solution is, as always, to be polite, and treat everyone like human beings as they deserve.

That's kind of what the Tavern did. We only snapped when we were poked (see phalanx formation analogy).

Satalexton, that would be good, but it would just die a slow death, as no-one wuld know about it. I'm sorry to say, but our only option is the English one: Complain loudly, politely, but with more wit than any nomal man could ever muster.

And the general response to the closing of the Tav from the EB team, I have to say, is pretty poor. They're telling us to go somewhere we can't, accusing us of things we didn't, and effectively snubbing us.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The thing with a threat made in the Tavern to flood another mod's subfora with SPAM made us decide to do something that was pending for a long time. Much of the reasoning as outlined in the posts by Foot refer more to previous misbehaviour than to the last incident in the Tavern.

We do have a strong feeling that a lot of the misbehaviour elsewhere on these fora is fostered or incited at the Tavern; hence why it had to go first.

Or, you could have banned the guy who made the treat post in the first place? :inquisitive:

Honestly, if you expect me to hear you say that because a few said some things, everyone must pay and not complain about it, then you have made a huge mistake.

[Moros]

There is still the frontroom, a better place for general off topic chat (The backroom is for politics and stuff). Perhaps you could use it as a place to continue your daily chatting. The forum is meant for it and has enough moderators (with more time) to keep everything in check. I've been a regular over there for 3 years, and I can tell you it's a fun community.
The tavern also has a gameroom, where different forumgames (Mainly Mafia) are played which can count for hours of fun. You learn to know more people and can chat about more different things. And it also being a TW subforum, people don't differ that much from here.

[Che Roriniho]

The whole reason most people, Hooahguy, and Appo, for example visited these forums was the the unnique atmosphere in the EB forum. These 2 have now gone, and with them, the soul of the Forum has gone.

Cheers Foot.

[satalexton]

then i suggest we all just end this all ruckus...unless you want the team to postpone eb2 indefinatly.....not everybody is an augustus, but i'm certainly seeing a lot of tiberius-wannabes..

[a completely inoffensive name]

There is still the frontroom, a better place for general off topic chat (The backroom is for politics and stuff). Perhaps you could use it as a place to continue your daily chatting. The forum is meant for it and has enough moderators (with more time) to keep everything in check. I've been a regular over there for 3 years, and I can tell you it's a fun community.
The tavern also has a gameroom, where different forumgames (Mainly Mafia) are played which can count for hours of fun. You learn to know more people and can chat about more different things. And it also being a TW subforum, people don't differ that much from here.

But it is not the same. Period. Don't give me swiss when I asked cheddar and say "well its cheese, its practically the same!"

[Tellos Athenaios]

And the general response to the closing of the Tav from the EB team, I have to say, is pretty poor. They're telling us to go somewhere we can't, accusing us of things we didn't, and effectively snubbing us.

'We' never did anything yet I recall a thread being made once by someone outside the team who got pretty angry over how low the general code of conduct appeared to have sunk. And 'we' never had done a thing back then either. Yeah. Had 'we'?

It is likely true that some individuals who are generally likeable and polite fellows now find themselves without one of their favourite threads now all of a sudden. I think I know at least one such member. Yes, that isn't really fair to them; they don't cause 'any' of the grief.

But there are others that do. And the Tavern didn't exactly help them mending their ways.

[Che Roriniho]

Well this issue isn't like "we don't like the Tavern any more; we close it now."

I think I can speak for the team in saying nobody particularly liked the Tavern itself. As far as I can see most of us including myself, used not to mind it either. Just one of those threads you know. At time one might even commit to actually reading it or posting there.

But we've had rather [massive] outbreaks of SPAM, trolling, rudeness and general bad behaviour in this forum on multiple occasions. One such occasion saw the Tavern shut down; rudeness saw a page or two of the Tavern being wiped from these boards; and we've had another such occasion not too long ago.

The thing with a threat made in the Tavern to flood another mod's subfora with SPAM made us decide to do something that was pending for a long time. Much of the reasoning as outlined in the posts by Foot refer more to previous misbehaviour than to the last incident in the Tavern.

We do have a strong feeling that a lot of the misbehaviour elsewhere on these fora is fostered or incited at the Tavern; hence why it had to go first.

Before this thread is locked, as it inevatably will be, as seems to be the case when someone says something the mods don't like, I need to explain, and retort these points. First of all, as I said in my above post, THE WHOLE REASON MANY PEOPLE CAME TO THE FORUM WAS THE TAVERN. Appo, Hooahguy, and I'm sure there's many more, also, just look at the views and posts. over 2,000 posts, that's the most on the forum, so saying no-one like it, is equivalent to saying no-one like the Sex Pistols because they couldn't lay to save their lives.

People have always made the Tav a home, whether or not the team understood this is neither here nor there, and the very fact that people have LEFT the forums, says something of the lack of forethopugh in this dicision.

That threat was out of loyalty, and no-one was really going to, partly because Hax told us not to, and us being decent individuals, we wouldn't trash someone elses work. This thing called jokes, you see.

Once again, Cheers EB.

[a completely inoffensive name]

'We' never did anything yet I recall a thread being made once by someone outside the team who got pretty angry over how low the general code of conduct appeared to have sunk. And 'we' never had done a thing back then either. Yeah. Had 'we'?

It is likely true that some individuals who are generally likeable and polite fellows now find themselves without one of their favourite threads now all of a sudden. I think I know at least one such member. Yes, that isn't really fair to them; they don't cause 'any' of the grief.

But there are others that do. And the Tavern didn't exactly help them mending their ways.

One person's opinion should not make an impact on everyone else. I guess I could have complained a month ago about how low the conduct was here because no one here is using "sir" or "mam" and the travern would have been shut down then huh?

[Che Roriniho]

It is likely true that some individuals who are generally likeable and polite fellows now find themselves without one of their favourite threads now all of a sudden. I think I know at least one such member. Yes, that isn't really fair to them; they don't cause 'any' of the grief.

But there are others that do. And the Tavern didn't exactly help them mending their ways.


Th grief from the Tavern was, the majority of the time, caused by newbies, who, as Mike said, didn't show common courtesy to the rest of the members. Again, see my Phalanx analogy. The Tav was a self-regulating place. Yes, standards were lower, but that certainly did not spill out into the wider forae.

[satalexton]

dude, just let it off and let the world run itself will ya? history has long proved that speaking the truth from your heart is the quickest way to get you killed...or in this case, banned.

now let's get back to talking about greek governments and roman tactics VS celtic arms shall we? =]

[Senshi]

Just wanted to express that I totally agree with the moderators' decision on locking the discussion down.

I loved the concept of tavern and though I'm a poor poster and more of a lurker in this forum, I liked reading it. That is, until at once the level of humour and discussion crashed to deep sea and got highly insulting and non-rational.

Serious discussions about serious Real Life matters in my opinion should never take place in public forums, it is almost inevitable that sooner or later the whole discussion turns into a mudpool.

As stated:

The Tavern shouldn't have been there to begin with. It was a mistake to allow it in the first place, it was a mistake to reopen it, and it was a mistake to leave it going as long as we did.
I totally second that!

In the forums I'm active in well-conduct and a great atmosphere is kept by a simple and effective rule:
"No politics, no religion!"
The strict enforcement of this includes deletion and closing every once in a time, but the majority agrees with the rule and most of the times even the "bad poster" agrees afterwards, as most of the times they don't intend creating a messy mudpool...

Hold up the level of behaviour EB-team though you might meet heavy opposition with some guys here, I'm pretty sure many others (who not necessarily are guys who post that often but prefer reading and learning) love the cultured and educated level of discussion in this forum (as I myself do).:yes:

[Hax]

Before this thread is locked, as it inevatably will be, as seems to be the case when someone says something the mods don't like, I need to explain, and retort these points. First of all, as I said in my above post, THE WHOLE REASON MANY PEOPLE CAME TO THE FORUM WAS THE TAVERN. Appo, Hooahguy, and I'm sure there's many more, also, just look at the views and posts. over 2,000 posts, that's the most on the forum, so saying no-one like it, is equivalent to saying no-one like the Sex Pistols because they couldn't lay to save their lives.

People have always made the Tav a home, whether or not the team understood this is neither here nor there, and the very fact that people have LEFT the forums, says something of the lack of forethopugh in this dicision.

That threat was out of loyalty, and no-one was really going to, partly because Hax told us not to, and us being decent individuals, we wouldn't trash someone elses work. This thing called jokes, you see.

Once again, Cheers EB.

Miscommunication. Comments like that, whether jokingly or not, are bound to have severe consequences. Jokes are hard to really get over the internet, so this was indeed a problem. I had feared that the threat in the Tavern would close it again, but after a good two pages, I thought that it wouldn't.

In that case, nobody except for me, is to blame for the closing of the Tavern. I personally liked the atmosphere around it, but things like that..discussing politics [in a nasty way], flames towards other mods, general swearing..it did help in the end.

A shame, as I said, but necessary. I completely understand the EB team's opinion on this matter and I respect it as well. I hope everyone does.

[Che Roriniho]

dude, just let it off and let the world run itself will ya? history has long proved that speaking the truth from your heart is the quickest way to get you killed...or in this case, banned.

now let's get back to talking about greek governments and roman tactics VS celtic arms shall we? =]

So abou's dream then? Sucking every ounce of soul from these forums, and then forgetting nothing happened. For remember, people who speak th truth and die, start revolutions.




CHE RORINIHO

[a completely inoffensive name]

dude, just let it off and let the world run itself will ya? history has long proved that speaking the truth from your heart is the quickest way to get you killed...or in this case, banned.

I highly doubt they will ban me because then that would be fair towards everyone. Just like how "someone made a threat in the tavern" they wont do anything except lock this down and punish everyone. If anyone bans me for this, then kudos to him or her because at least they are doing thier job right and not just cutting off the discussion entirely like a power hungry dictator.

[russia almighty]

So, who is cool with some creating a half assed off site board and call it the EB fan tavern?


It could be the den of evil everyone is looking for.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Th grief from the Tavern was, the majority of the time, caused by newbies, who, as Mike said, didn't show common courtesy to the rest of the members. Again, see my Phalanx analogy. The Tav was a self-regulating place. Yes, standards were lower, but that certainly did not spill out into the wider forae.

That view isn't shared by either the ORG moderator we've had contact with or the EB team. The simple fact that Moros was met with blank disbelief when he told people that the ORG actually has rules and that these applied to the Tavern too; is telling me enough.

If you want a Tavern there is the Frontroom. If you want politics there is the Backroom. If you want to talk about AARs, Historical questions, Remodding EB or anything else which is actually related to EB -- then you should be here.

Once upon a time there wasn't a Tavern yet in these foras. And yet people did come here and did enjoy themselves here. Why don't you read many of the other threads on these fora first, before complaining that without the Tavern all will be darkness and no joy will be found here anymore?

[satalexton]

@ russia
I am, cuz I simply don't like the sight of Tiberius Gracchus clones being pwned by the Scipo.

If you start one, I'll help you run it.

[Che Roriniho]

Miscommunication. Comments like that, whether jokingly or not, are bound to have severe consequences. Jokes are hard to really get over the internet, so this was indeed a problem. I had feared that the threat in the Tavern would close it again, but after a good two pages, I thought that it wouldn't.

In that case, nobody except for me, is to blame for the closing of the Tavern. I personally liked the atmosphere around it, but things like that..discussing politics [in a nasty way], flames towards other mods, general swearing..it did help in the end.

A shame, as I said, but necessary. I completely understand the EB team's opinion on this matter and I respect it as well. I hope everyone does.

It is not your fault, it is the fault of the complete idiots who insulted various people inside the Tav. I take full and unreserved responsiblity for that anti-israel post, but bear in mind, I do have family reasons to dislike the Zionists, and I was containing about 6 bottles of Dutch beer at the time, but that is still no excuse.
Peopple say things they regret in all paths of life. Live and let live.
And Senshi, by lurking, you've missed the point of the Tavern. it's like going to a real pub, sitting in a corner with a blanket over your head, then complaining no-one talks to you. It's something you have to partake in, not watch. At least, it was.

[abou]

So abou's dream then? Sucking every ounce of soul from these forums, and then forgetting nothing happened. For remember, people who speak th truth and die, start revolutions.My dream? Thanks for that. You may have come to the EB forum like a few others simply for the Tavern, but that was never the purpose of the forum itself.

[a completely inoffensive name]

That view isn't shared by either the ORG moderator we've had contact with or the EB team. The simple fact that Moros was met with blank disbelief when he told people that the ORG actually has rules and that these applied to the Tavern too; is telling me enough.

If you want a Tavern there is the Frontroom. If you want politics there is the Backroom. If you want to talk about AARs, Historical questions, Remodding EB or anything else which is actually related to EB -- then you should be here.

Once upon a time there wasn't a Tavern yet in these foras. And yet people did come here and did enjoy themselves here. Why don't you read many of the other threads on these fora first, before complaining that without the Tavern all will be darkness and no joy will be found here anymore?

I do read many of the other threads, but you can only talk about the game so much. The Tavern was an area where EB fans could talk to other EB fans about things other then EB and in my opinion it makes people feel more involved in the community. Now that you have shut it down, it makes me think: "Will anyone that joins who makes an off topic thread be shut down out of concerns of another out of control tavern?" It was a stupid mistake to shut it down, because the smart thing to do as a mod is to get rid of those causing trouble not just closing the friggen topic down!

[Bellum]

Well I fail to see how I have a responsibility to be nice to everyone and point everyone new in the right direction

Which is, as I said, an immature point of view. It's a bad attitude that hurts everyone.

Another example:



Honestly, if you expect me to hear you say that because a few said some things, everyone must pay and not complain about it, then you have made a huge mistake.

This is a rude and hostile attack against the mods. If everyone would explain their reasoning logically and without hostility, it would be much easier to reach a conclusion. These insistent attacks and demands won't lead to any productive end. The mods will likely lock this thread, and you will have gained nothing. Perhaps the mods and some other people will have lost some respect for you because of your inability to act coolly.

[Che Roriniho]

That view isn't shared by either the ORG moderator we've had contact with or the EB team. The simple fact that Moros was met with blank disbelief when he told people that the ORG actually has rules and that these applied to the Tavern too; is telling me enough.

If you want a Tavern there is the Frontroom. If you want politics there is the Backroom. If you want to talk about AARs, Historical questions, Remodding EB or anything else which is actually related to EB -- then you should be here.

Once upon a time there wasn't a Tavern yet in these foras. And yet people did come here and did enjoy themselves here. Why don't you read many of the other threads on these fora first, before complaining that without the Tavern all will be darkness and no joy will be found here anymore?


You don't get it. We don't want the Backroom, bexcause that's not the Tavern.

[Warmaster Horus]

I didn't think I'd post here, because I side entirely with the EB team on this, and I think there's enough of them to make a point. That said, I don't disagree with some of the points made by the "taverners", notably the idea of a community.
But...

things other then EB
... don't have anything to do with EB, right? Then, logically, they don't have a reason to be in this sub-forum. As has already been said, the EB forum isn't all there is to the Org. If you want off-topic, then you go to the Frontroom.
If you're 'desperate' for an EB community to have an off-topic thread, then make an EB Tavern in the Frontroom, where that kind of stuff belongs.

[Bellum]

You don't get it. We don't want the Backroom, bexcause that's not the Tavern.

It's ok, Jimmy. You can make new friends! :clown:

[Che Roriniho]

My dream? Thanks for that. You may have come to the EB forum like a few others simply for the Tavern, but that was never the purpose of the forum itself.

I camehere because of th game. I started the Unofficial Manual Project fo one, so it's hardly joining just for the Tavern, but this was 'base' for me. And Mike is right, there is only so much EB you want to talk about, but you still want to talk to the people. This was the Tavern.

[a completely inoffensive name]

This is a rude and hostile attack against the mods. If everyone would explain their reasoning logically and without hostility, it would be much easier to reach a conclusion. These insistent attacks and demands won't lead to any productive end. The mods will likely lock this thread, and you will have gained nothing. Perhaps the mods and some other people will have lost some respect for you because of your inability to act coolly.

If you actually read my posts in this thread you would realize that have made many good points and yet no reply from the mods themselves. I ask them why just ban whoever is making the threats or swearing etc..instead of shutting down the thread entirely. And yet no answer.

Also, you should seriously take a look at yourself because it seems to me as if you revere the mods as some infallable people that everyone should look up to. If they dont like my opinions thats fine, I dont care, I made my point and if they refuse to respond because of "a loss of respect" then thats thier own stubbornness and arrogance. Now very politely I am going to ask:

Dear mods, why not just crackdown on the guys who are causing the trouble instead of closing the thread which many more, non-trouble causing people are using?
-Mike

[The Persian Cataphract]

Well, we're sorry for not conforming to your utopia of the EB forum being a second branch of the British Library: Full of history and wonderful things, but fundamentally dull and quiet.

So? This is still not a sandbox for your enjoyment. This is not Orkut.

Also, I resent your tasteless remark on Abou's character. This was a decision rather unanimously taken by the team, and even I who despise censorship more than any of your sorry asses, couldn't bear myself to defend the Tavern. In an especially notorious case, a board-invasion was incited. Guess what, we didn't ruin anything. You guys did that perfectly well on your own.

If Mike Hunt thinks our decision was "bullshit", tough luck for him. We are not obliged to cater, we do this in our spare time, and the fact that the hand of offering was voraciously devoured along with the arm to which the hand was attached, is greeted by insolent protests, just begs to ask just how audacious one can get.

[Che Roriniho]

It's ok, Jimmy. You can make new friends! :clown:

we're fine with the one's we've got had.

[Bellum]

If you actually read my posts in this thread you would realize that have made many good points and yet no reply from the mods themselves. I ask them why just ban whoever is making the threats or swearing etc..instead of shutting down the thread entirely. And yet no answer.

You did make some interesting points, so why wasn't there a response?

Because from the very beginning you were rude. You said with your attitude that you were entitled to any of your demands, even if you didn't realize it.


Also, you should seriously take a look at yourself because it seems to me as if you revere the mods as some infallable people that everyone should look up to.

No, I look at them as human beings who happen to be the voice of authority on these forums.



we're fine with the one's we've got had.

Sure, but things change whether you want them to or not.

[Tellos Athenaios]

You don't get it. We don't want the Backroom, bexcause that's not the Tavern.

Yes I got that bit. What you seem to have completely and utterly overlooked is the fact that 'we' are not alone on these forums; much less that these forums are dedicated to 'we'. What do you think to achieve with acting as a little child that has just been told it can't have x but is allowed y; yet it persists in replying "but I don't want y; I want x!" ?

There is a reason why the EB devs haver their own private subforum for having whatever conversation they want; yet the Tavern never was made an official EB subforum. There is a reason why, I think, such a request would never have been granted either, had it been made.

We do not own these fora. We have been granted to use parts of it so long we remain within the ORG rules. We therefore are responisble for mainting some sort of 'public order' in correspondance with the ORG rules. We notice that we fail to do so. We also notice that a particular point of failure is in fact the Tavern. Do you want me to continue, or do you see where this leads to?

The following is directed a Mike Hunt mostly:
For a comparison it's not like the Tavern is the only thread that has been locked; much less that it is the only thread with bad behaviour taking over the discussion. Those threads were eventually locked too. Still who would argue that it was a bad thing to lock those threads and only people who had actually comitted acts of misbehaviour would have to suffer? Locking is a preventing mechanism it has got nothing to do with punishing. Bans are for punishing. If the warning hasn't been clear enough yet and some people persist; then these will eventually find themselves banned.

Also: I'm awaiting that little line of Madness.

[a completely inoffensive name]

So? This is still not a sandbox for your enjoyment. This is not Orkut.

Also, I resent your tasteless remark on Abou's character. This was a decision rather unanimously taken by the team, and even I who despise censorship more than any of your sorry asses, couldn't bear myself to defend the Tavern. In an especially notorious case, a board-invasion was incited. Guess what, we didn't ruin anything. You guys did that perfectly well on your own.

If Mike Hunt thinks our decision was "bullshit", tough luck for him. We are not obliged to cater, we do this in our spare time, and the fact that the hand of offering was voraciously devoured along with the arm to which the hand was attached, is greeted by insolent protests, just begs to ask just how audacious one can get.

Yes, you are not obliged to cater to the whims of your fans, but you are obliged to exercise the power you have over these forums wisely. The decision to close the tavern was not a wise choice, the wiser choice which I have stated many times would be to ban/punish only those spouting off such offencive things.

My main problem with this is NOT that the tavern was shut down in the first place, but for your bull**** reasoning behind it.

[Tellos Athenaios]

If you actually read my posts in this thread you would realize that have made many good points and yet no reply from the mods themselves. I ask them why just ban whoever is making the threats or swearing etc..instead of shutting down the thread entirely. And yet no answer.

Well haven't I for one, TPC and abou for another two, made many good points as well? And haven't we addressed most if not all of your concerns? Rephrasing the same, by now old, hat many times getting each time you do so more worked up and verging on the point of getting colourful too... it just doesn't help. I refer you to my analogy of the child.

[Che Roriniho]

So? This is still not a sandbox for your enjoyment. This is not Orkut.

Also, I resent your tasteless remark on Abou's character. This was a decision rather unanimously taken by the team, and even I who despise censorship more than any of your sorry asses, couldn't bear myself to defend the Tavern. In an especially notorious case, a board-invasion was incited. Guess what, we didn't ruin anything. You guys did that perfectly well on your own.

If Mike Hunt thinks our decision was "bullshit", tough luck for him. We are not obliged to cater, we do this in our spare time, and the fact that the hand of offering was voraciously devoured along with the arm to which the hand was attached, is greeted by insolent protests, just begs to ask just how audacious one can get.

No, but see my above comment. The Tavern was where you could chat with the EB guys, but not about EB.

What WAS the tavern for then? An experiment in Social Engineering? See what happens when we close something we like?

That Bourd invasion 'incitement' was a joke. In bad taste, I admit, but a joke nonetheless. This isn't the Chans. Board invasions aren't opur style. We simply mutter to ourselves about 'Th downfall of society', or whatever. I say again, nothing serious!

Also, what remark on Abou's character?

[Tellos Athenaios]

My main problem with this is NOT that the tavern was shut down in the first place, but for your bull**** reasoning behind it.

Were this the case on other boards I visited; such reasoning would not just have led to the Tavern being closed down it would have led to many of the participants getting a shiny new point on their "infraction" counter. Count up to 3 or so and you get a temp ban.

Guess what; these forums are still pretty relaxed, open minded and free.

[Tellos Athenaios]

No, but see my above comment. The Tavern was where you could chat with the EB guys, but not about EB.

What WAS the tavern for then? An experiment in Social Engineering? See what happens when we close something we like?

That Bourd invasion 'incitement' was a joke. In bad taste, I admit, but a joke nonetheless. This isn't the Chans. Board invasions aren't opur style. We simply mutter to ourselves about 'Th downfall of society', or whatever. I say again, nothing serious!

Also, what remark on Abou's character?

Something about Utopia, I guess; something which also could very well be reversed and with a little adaptations apply to you, I guess.

EDIT: Or wasn't it this one...



So abou's dream then? Sucking every ounce of soul from these forums, and then forgetting nothing happened. For remember, people who speak th truth and die, start revolutions.

[Che Roriniho]

Sure, but things change whether you want them to or not.

Not friends.

I'm starting to agree with TA here. I do want a NSFW sub forum for EB though. I WANTSES!

As far as I can see, this thread is closed, but it's truly a bad day for EB. 2 of our best members have left, and has resulted in forae with noticably less soul.

Sh*t Happens though.

Valete

[Sarcasm]

This was a decision rather unanimously taken by the team, and even I who despise censorship more than any of your sorry asses, couldn't bear myself to defend the Tavern. In an especially notorious case, a board-invasion was incited. Guess what, we didn't ruin anything. You guys did that perfectly well on your own.

If Mike Hunt thinks our decision was "bullshit", tough luck for him. We are not obliged to cater, we do this in our spare time, and the fact that the hand of offering was voraciously devoured along with the arm to which the hand was attached, is greeted by insolent protests, just begs to ask just how audacious one can get.

I wouldn't say unanimously...I for one fought nail and tooth to get the tavern back on the first time it got closed, I certainly don't agree that it was a mistake to have a Tavern in the first place nor was it easy for me to not defend the tavern this time around. I did ultimately chose not to though.

Like TPC here, I absolutely despise censorship and was sort of shocked and revolted by the first closure despite having an extremely low opinion of the place and most of its patrons. This time around this was a long time in the making and it's entirely your own fault. In the lesbian thread I alluded to the danger of having off-tavern spam posts (at this time closing the tavern began to be seriously discussed) and I was still met with indifference and with several "In before lock" comments by several patrons of the tavern and regular members appearing after my warning.

To tell you the truth, like some situations in reality, you might not deserve the place nor the internal protection of certain key EB-members, and failed to see what a real privilege it was to have a place within the .org without strict rules of conduct. You ultimately failed to police yourselves - something the EB-team is unwilling to do for you.

Good luck.

[Che Roriniho]

@TA
That last quote was mostly the result of bad grammar. There should have been a new paragraph in there somewhere.

But, hell, I take full responsibility for everything I have posted.

Again,

Valete.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Yes I got that bit. What you seem to have completely and utterly overlooked is the fact that 'we' are not alone on these forums; much less that these forums are dedicated to 'we'. What do you think to achieve with acting as a little child that has just been told it can't have x but is allowed y; yet it persists in replying "but I don't want y; I want x!" ?

There is a reason why the EB devs haver their own private subforum for having whatever conversation they want; yet the Tavern never was made an official EB subforum. There is a reason why, I think, such a request would never have been granted either, had it been made.

We do not own these fora. We have been granted to use parts of it so long we remain within the ORG rules. We therefore are responisble for mainting some sort of 'public order' in correspondance with the ORG rules. We notice that we fail to do so. We also notice that a particular point of failure is in fact the Tavern. Do you want me to continue, or do you see where this leads to?

The following is directed a Mike Hunt mostly:
For a comparison it's not like the Tavern is the only thread that has been locked; much less that it is the only thread with bad behaviour taking over the discussion. Those threads were eventually locked too. Still who would argue that it was a bad thing to lock those threads and only people who had actually comitted acts of misbehaviour would have to suffer? Locking is a preventing mechanism it has got nothing to do with punishing. Bans are for punishing. If the warning hasn't been clear enough yet and some people persist; then these will eventually find themselves banned.

Also: I'm awaiting that little line of Madness.

I have to say that I believe that locking a thread is reserved for only troll/spam posts, and not for misbehavior. The "preventive" measures in a mods power is a temporary ban and then a perminant one if bad behavior continues.

I think this whole situation could be solved if a new Tavern was made, and instead of waiting until all hell breaks loose and then shutting down the entire thread, there should be constant supervision where only those who cause trouble get a warning from the mod, then a temporary ban based on the mods own judgement and then a perminant ban for a third offence. K?

Oh and here is that line of madness I have holding in... (WARNING: swearing ahead!):

lol I will edit that last part out if anyone finds that distasteful.


There are rules against swearing. Do not do it. - Foot

[Hax]

Yes.

This is indeed distasteful, and against the rules as well. I'm not trying to police you in any way [since the closing of the tavern was also in part thanks to me], but this isn't helping.

[Foot]

I know that many people loved the Tavern, and so I know that any discussion between those who locked it and those who loved it will always be unresolved. I have no intention of turning this into a discussion.

If any of you have troubles posting in the Backroom or the Frontroom you need to contact a moderator in the appropriate forum. These are the two forums on this board that are suitable for off-topic conversation and I suggest that you continue there. If you do not want to continue the EB Tavern there, then you do not need to post there.

The EB forum is for EB. If you do not want to talk about EB then you will need a different forum. We understand that the EB forum cannot be a constant home for people because talking about EB a lot can get quite annoying. If you have questions about EB, suggestions for EB, etc. then you can post them here. If you just want to chat with some mates over the internet then you can go to the Frontroom or Backroom.

I will now close this thread. I hope that you Tavern people can find a new home elsewhere that is more suited to its nature and topics.

Foot

[Sarcasm]

...

Very helpful. I'm sure the guys defending the tavern are glad you're on their side.

[Che Roriniho]

Yes.

This is indeed distasteful, and against the rules as well. I'm not trying to police you in any way [since the closing of the tavern was also in part thanks to me], but this isn't helping.

IT WASN'T YOUR FAULT! You got kicked from WotD, and, we under false pretences of being Loyal, joked around.

I said my fair share of crap, as well, but no-ones to blame.

Also, Mike, calm down. we have listened to you, and you re (I believe) right on some points, but not all. This quiestioning is called discussion. It happens on forums. Calm down.