View Full Version : Min/max charge distance
Redllama
11-01-2002, 04:22
I searched the forums and couldn't find if anyone had answered this question, so I thought I'd ask. I was wondering if there was a minimum distance that your unit had to charge before it got the charge bonus? Or if there was a maximum distance they could run before the charge bonus 'wore' off so to speak..
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Power to the people? They wouldn't know what to do with it.
Hi !
Generally MP games tend to get heated up to the point where u see all the men charging most of the time. Armies (units) usually only walk to the enemy and then go charging about most of the time till the battle is over. there seems to be a geanral rush to get it over with http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I think that wen your unit status goes into "attacking" mode then they begin charging. Reckon they need to do be in the charging mode for about 3-5 secs (depending on terrain, season, fatigue which affects their speed) to inflict maximun damage on impact. The distance they cover in this time is the minimum distance.
Conversely, should you begin your charge let's say 45 seconds away from the enemy unit, your charge will be reduced. So it's a good idea to charge when reasonablly close to the enemy and walk all the way up to him. I think you should not charge, unless desperate, when the enemy is further than 8 seconds away.
Dionysus9
11-01-2002, 05:38
I havent done any testing on this, but its something im interested in. I think the "charge bonus" applies on an individual basis. So sometimes some of your men are charging and others are still marching when they contact the enemy (for example if you didnt have much time to order the doubleclick-attack).
As for a 3-5 second window, my experience has shown otherwise, but like I said I've never tested it. As far as I've seen, if you have time to get the front line of a unit up to charging speed before they hit the enemy, you get the charge bonus. This doesn't take long (maybe 1 second?).
Just my 2 cents.
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Bacchus
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In the end times, there will be rumors of a patch-- but none shall come. And there shall be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth across the lands. And still no patch shall come. And the poor suckers will start eating their children out of frustrated desperation. And yet-- no patch shall come. Alas the end of days shall be dark and horrible.
As long as the unit is Marching Quickly it will charge when it gets to the right distance. So you can easily double-click from far away, but that will just make the troops more tired.
Even men in turning units can get a charge.
I had walked up to a unit of Peasants with a high Valour Byz Inf unit (had been elsewhere directing), but it so was that the Peasants were hit at an angle and the formation swung in. The men at the far end of the formation charged in, as they carved a path through the Peasants, where the guys in the main fight were only making slow progress.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
anymapkoku
11-01-2002, 08:32
So if I single click attack a unit, my unit isn't going to charge? I thought if it said "attacking" then it was going to get a charge bonus?
I never really pay any attention to the charge anyways because the real meat of the unit is in it's attack/defend values. Of course I could be missing something here, but charge is too small to matter.
solypsist
11-01-2002, 10:01
this may sound like a dumb question, but what exactly happens when two units charge (both double clicked) into each other - nevermind terrain advantages etc.
anymapkoku
11-01-2002, 11:35
I'm sure if two units charge eachother then they both get charge bonus. Having said that I'm sure I'll end up being wrong.
MizuKokami
11-01-2002, 11:42
nope...you are correct
NinjaKilla
11-01-2002, 16:07
But which one has first attack phase?
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
NinjaKilla
11-01-2002, 16:09
... and how long does the charge bonus stay in effect for?
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
chunkynut
11-01-2002, 16:29
Thats a good point about the attack phase, i have seen a wuick back and forth movment when 2 units charge.
I would assume (vague tho) that the one who has charged the most optimum(not to long of short http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif (at the hieght of their charge)) gets the first attack.
Not sure on the length of bonus tho (and would like to know!).
[This message has been edited by chunkynut (edited 11-01-2002).]
First attack phase? The short answer-- both.
The long answer-- combat is handled on a man-by-man basis. In a dead head-on man to man matchup I would imagine the first strike is basically random. So statistically the first-strike apportionment should be pretty even over a series of trials.
You see-- don't overthink it. The system is simple but effective.
Del
favedave
11-01-2002, 17:47
According to the strat guide:
A unit that has been ordered to attack another unit (SINGLE click) will automatically charge when it approaches the target unit.
A soldier builds up MOMENTUM when charging. Each time he fights, a little momentum is lost. If he keeps killing and pushing back, he maintains momentum. When the momentum is lost, the charge is over, he loses the charge bonus.
A charging soldier (all this stuff is figured on an individual soldier basis) may not kill but instead PUSH BACK the enemy soldier. This gives the target big defensive penalties in subsequent rounds.
Being pushed back depends on the units, how many ranks, etc. A cav unit will ALWAYS push back any inf unit that is not FACING HIM with a spear, pike, or polearm.
So, it seems that both units get the charge bonus, but some will push back others, causing the others' charge bonus to dissipate(after the initial strike).
So if inf and cav charge each other, and the inf does NOT have spear, pike, or polearm, then they both get their charge bonus for the initial strike, then only the cav keeps it longer for subsequent strikes as it pushes back the inf.
All this is from the strategy guide.
BTW, combat is calculated approx once per second per individual man on the battlefield! That's a lot of number crunching going on, with all the factors being considered.
And when you have even odds, the chance to kill is only 1.9% ! If you have a 5 point advantage in striker vs target (including all terrain, position, armor, etc.) then the chance only increases to 4.73%.
All strikes are simultaneous, of course.
There is nothing in the guide about minimum charging distance. The only thing you can do is look at the fatigue bars of each unit. When you're totally exhausted, you can't charge, so I assume as long as you're not exhausted when you reach the target, you can run and charge all you want.
BTW, totally exhausted means -6 to your attack factor.
[This message has been edited by favedave (edited 11-01-2002).]
Michael the Great
11-01-2002, 18:20
If I could only reach you
If I could only make u smile(if I could only reach u)...
..That would really be a BREAKTHROU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think it's an issue with infantry to let them go from "marching" (single click) to "attacking" (charging) another infantry unit since the men seem to achieve top speed before contact even if the other unit is countercharging.
I don't think this is the case with cavalry. In WE/MI v102, the charge distance was increased from 1500 to 2000, but it's back to 1500 in MTW. Cav has a very large speed change to make going from "marching" to "attack" speed. I'm not sure they can fully achieve it within the 1500 distance, and I'm sure they cannot achieve it if they are being countercharged. The charge is relatively large for cav, and you want to take full advantage of it. I would say you want to double click on the target unit while the cav is still beyond its charge distance. Keep in mind that a unit only gets its charge bonus if it engages the target unit. If a charging unit collides with or is intercepted by an enemy unit other than the one it was charging, it looses its charge bonus. (This was the case in STW and WE/MI, and I don't think it's been changed)
There was a bug in STW and WE/MI whereby units would always charge at full attack speed even if exhausted or totally exhausted. That's been fixed in MTW.
When you backstab with a cav unit you get charge + attack + 7 bonus (at least), inflict a morale penalty on the target unit and get pushbacks which weaken enemy men on the next combat cycle. So, a cav unit can do a lot of damage when coming from behind.
Concerning first strike during combat: It doesn't matter. If the man who strikes first kills his opponent, his opponent still gets to strike back within the combat cycle. That's why you sometimes see two men kill each other.
Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
Concerning first strike during combat: It doesn't matter. If the man who strikes first kills his opponent, his opponent still gets to strike back within the combat cycle. That's why you sometimes see two men kill each other.[/QUOTE]
Hehehe.... I remember doing a test back in MI whre I sent two No-Dachis at each other... the whole front line of each unit died, except for the generals... that looked hilarious. Suddenly there was almost no cantact between the two units. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I guess it is the same for MTW when two unit charges each other.
Puzz, I think that units are moved directly to their charge speed. Try it with Kataphraktoi, they seem to go from their running speed (where they seem to be running in place) to chargespeed (where the animation fits the movement) at once it seems.
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
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