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Graymane
10-30-2002, 19:24
These are a few of the strategies that I use in my expert difficulty single player games.

1. The militia is your friend. I aim for a goal of around 12 militia units in each territory. Usually 2 cheap maintaince bow types and the rest in Urban Militia or Militia Sergeants. The reason for this is to simply save money and keep territories happy. That many militia can hold out quite well in a good castle until your real army gets there if needed. They also serve as your rebel invasion force described below.

2. Special units are fun. I aim for 2 bishops, 2 spies and 2 assassins in each territory for defensive purposes. I keep a pool of about 20 each in a central territory with a port. This allows me to stir up religious and/or peasant revolts in selected territories. This is a good way to take a territory without pissing off the pope or starting a war. The country you are taking from will get mad, however.

3. Build economy early. I try to take only territories that will give me positive cash flow early on (Sweden and not Norway, for example, if I am Denmark). I get to at least 1 merchant, a militia building (for militia of course), 20% farming and a port ASAP in each territory. After that, I work on a dock in 1-2 territories and start pumping boats. It is a really, really good idea to build that militia building first and start pumping troops if you can afford it to ward off early attacks by other armies.

4. Vultures are nice birds, really. My strategy for early conquest is always to take rebellious territories. You need a far reaching navy for this and a ready force of cheap troops to make it work. Territories that like to rebel are ones like portugal, ireland, wales, scotland, scandanavia and the like. I then invade with 2 bishops, 2 spies, 2 assassins (this is optional early on obiviously) and 6 units each of my militia force from 2-4 territories (depends on how strong the rebels are and what is around them). Sometimes I'll send a field army as well. If there is a particulary tough nut to crack, I'll send in 20 spies or 20 bishops and try to kick off a revolt.

5. Home territories are always building something as long as I have a positive cash flow. I generally aim for even distribution of buildings in tougher games. This means I climb the tech tree very slowly but that the loss of any one or few territories doesn't stop my war machine. This generally means I stop at the 3rd level of the tech tree and max out the build tree for that level in most territories. High cost, high maint units are not required to win the SP game at any level of difficulty. You need nothing more than FMAA, feudal sergeants and the like.

The exceptions to this rule are that I usually try to have 1 territory pumping spies and 1 boats. Assassins and bishops are part of the regular buildings in my normal build.

6. No revolutions. 2 spies, 2 assassins, 2 bishops and 12 militia units are generally all that is required to stop most revolutions from ever happening as long as the ruler is centrally located on a port. There are some territories that need more (some territorities in central turkey and russia, portugal, scotland, etc, but they are usually obvious).

7. It is all about the navy. Well, a lot of the game is, at any rate =) A strong navy means that you can dictate where and when attacks will occur. I aim for 2-3 boats in every water area on the map. You don't need the expensive boats either, numbers are really all that matters. If you own the seas, your enemy cannot attack you except via land, cannot trade and cannot send reinforcements while you still can.

8. You still need a few standing armies. The AI loves to mass 4-5 huge armies in certain places. These will roll over your defenses when the two front war happens (You are Spain, attack the Elmos and the French backstab you, for example). Keep the armies together on a port so you can respond with them as required.

I build my standing armies such that 25-40% of the troops are cheaply replaceable. Militia, for example. That usually means my more expensive troops last a lot longer. So each army is usually something like 1-2 heavy cav, 1-2 light cav, 3-4 or so spear units (usually sergeants), 2-3 shock troops and the rest cheap units (militia, xbow, etc). I then field 4-5 of these armies for each war front, usually in a mass, and follow them with militia armies to hold territorities.

9. Bring it all together in a process of momentum. In other words, once you start a war, finish it completely. Don't give the enemy time to build back up and regroup. Before the war or in the first few years of it, start building replacements for your armies. Have your field armies plow through territories a turn at a time and let the follow up militia armies worry about siege and holding the territories. Ensure you rule the seas so that you can continue to ship troops around. Your field armies should be aiming for the destruction of the enemy's army, so you will be hopping from territory to territory following him. When you get to a spot where you can be attacked by 3 territories at once, stop your field armies there and start to consolidate.

10. Dealing with the pope and excommunication. The strategy above works good for just about any scenario except catholic on catholic. In that case, you generally have 2 turns to finish a war before you get excommunicated. The cheesy way of dealing with this is to take out the pope, sell everything there is to sell in rome and leave the territory to rebel. Most likely, the pope will never again take back rome. The game is far too easy in this case though. (You can also use assassins for the same effect, but I generally don't have time to micromanage to that extend with everything else that is going on).

The other way to deal with this problem is to use your navy and spies to strike quickly. Send spies to start revolutions in their territories and then take them when they go neutral. If that doesn't work, find 2-3 territories that are lightly defended and attack them all, in 1 turn, by sea with overwhelming force (militia is usually enough for this). Do assaults on the next turn to take the castles and you are set. Make sure to kill as many of his boats as possible in two turns. Once you get the warning to stop hostilities. Stop them and build up your territories and start sueing for peace. If you don't think you can hold the territories, sell everything in the territory and hope it rebels.

Cardinal
10-30-2002, 21:22
Well, there you have it, the modern 10 commandments. What puzzles me is how you get all this done.

Firstly, I do not share your love for militia. I find them highly unreliable and too weak.....and 12 of them in each province??? How do you manage to build them all. I have conquered (as Spain) the Iberian Peninsula, North Africa, The Middle East and Anatolia, and am currently ringing in the Mediterranian, the cash is just rolling in, but I would have great trouble keeping up with your rate of production.

Still, good tips.....thanks!

TenkiSoratoti
10-30-2002, 21:29
Yeah nice tips now try multiplayer if you havnt already

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"The good fighters of the old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an oppurtunity to defeat the enemy."

Pachinko
10-30-2002, 22:03
Quote What puzzles me is how you get all this done.[/QUOTE]


Use the farm(very early) and the navy! Thats it. It works for me.


P.

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Crush your enemies, see them driven before you on the field of battle, and hear the lamentation of their women.

Dev quote>>Sigh, ye of little faith. Don't assume everything is a bug.

Graymane
10-30-2002, 23:18
Quote Originally posted by Cardinal:
Well, there you have it, the modern 10 commandments. What puzzles me is how you get all this done.

Firstly, I do not share your love for militia. I find them highly unreliable and too weak.....and 12 of them in each province??? How do you manage to build them all. I have conquered (as Spain) the Iberian Peninsula, North Africa, The Middle East and Anatolia, and am currently ringing in the Mediterranian, the cash is just rolling in, but I would have great trouble keeping up with your rate of production.

Still, good tips.....thanks![/QUOTE]

12 is very cheap in the long run since maint. costs are so low. In the earlier part of the game, it is more expensive to not build a holding force in each territory because if you get attacked or a rebellion occurs, you can lose a lot of money and turns worth of work on the territory you just built up. Of course, when you just start out, you can't build 12 of anything. At those times I just aim for smaller numbers like 5-6 or nothing at all if your Denmark =)

In my latest game with Denmark, I simply held Sweden and Denmark for the early game, just building up money and infrastructure and most importantly, a navy. France proceeded to take most of Europe including all of England except Ireland. I then took Ireland with nothing but militia. Then wales, scotland and the province right below scotland rebelled. I took wales and the territory below because scotland pretty much sucks. All that with nothing but militia. Next went Portugal and 2 territories in northern france. All to militia again. Now I have 8 territories and am finally building some field armies. If I lose those territories while building up, no big deal, it only cost me militia so far (around 12, give or take in each territory). That is 720 cost per territory taken. Maint is about 300 per turn (due to losses). The initial cost is usually made up just taking the territory and if it is a good territory (I only take good ones early on), the maint cost is made up by territory income. This then gives me the base to build my good armies back in Denmark/Sweden for further conquest. I took 2 territories each turn for 3 turns. I couldn't have done that with Denmark that early on without using militia. Now I have 8 territories and a good cash flow.

Once about half the map is conquered, then it isn't quite so critical to get them built to 12 until revolts start happening. You can focus on one side of the map and build tons of militia, then ship them over if required. A good example is conquering areas around Egypt and Turkey when you are Spain. If you don't send in the proper garrisons early on, you'll get tons of revolts.

I have the money to build them all because the net gain in money is almost always positive. Taking the territory gives you money and if you take it with militia, it is very cheap. To manage everything going on, I cycle through the build queues with the arrows and fill both building and troop queues when I have the money (usually when I start hitting the 50,000 mark and esp when I'm in the 100,000 range).

You are right, the militia are not great troops. But then, they aren't really being used as a field army, they are being used as a police force. When I do use them as an army, they are for taking lightly held areas or winning rebel areas that generally have peasants for troops. I build regular field armies for other uses described in the other post.

Since revolts seem to be based on the number of troops in a province as opposed to their quality, use the cheaper ones.

Maint costs for Spanish:
arb/xbow - 23
urban/serg militia - 30
peasants - 38
FMAA - 45
Spear - 50
F. Serg - 63

Satyr
10-30-2002, 23:22
Boy does that seem like overkill of what?

I don't think I ever have more than 6 companies in any territory ever, except maybe scotland or portugal, and I usually am fine with 2 or 3. I guess I play more of an ironman style because I hate using spies to do my work. Also, I like to use better troops, especially later on when the ai is fielding good troops too. This way I only need one stack to win most battles even when the ai has 3-4 stacks.

anymapkoku
10-31-2002, 06:38
I can't understand people's fascination with SP. Just build a billion crusades and use the order foots to run over the world. Get crusades/a billion fmma/chic sergeants, and youre done. Where is that strategy in that? I keep hearing about the almhohads being so great and everything, but they get raped by byz infantry alone, probably by 16 fmma/order/chivS as well. The computer is stupid. Period. End of story. It doesn't take brains to beat it. THe computer needs a replay save option so it is more challenging. The computer rolls over and dies even if you dont train/build non peasants units or mercs.

KukriKhan
10-31-2002, 11:15
I hear you anymapkoku, as a former MP-only Shogun player, I found STW SP an incredible bore.

However, when I loaded up MTW, and was trying out all the functions to make sure they worked, I found myself strangely drawn repeatedly to the campaign map - and after a month of going thru successive tougher campaigns, I have to say I'm hooked now.

For me it's the mental challange: jusy how many factors can I keep track of to achieve the world I envisioned when I started? (I could personally give a crap what level of world dom or glorious achievement the comp says I 'should' try for - I stare at the "Early" map when I've decided who to be, then imagine how I want to end up, and then start the campaign with that as my personal goal).

But I remember the yawny-ness of STW's campaigns (that some guys couldn't get enough of), compared to the seeemingly more=real, rough-and-tumble world of STW MP.

Some guys (me now included) just get into the mgt of men, resources, etc to achieve strat goals. But it ain't everybody's cup-o-tea. And the paper-rock-scissors troop selection thing only gets encoutered occasionally in SP (heck, I went more than 200 years as the French without a fight, working alliances, building resources, biding my time).

On the other hand, I'm sure I'll get slaughtered the first 100 times I go MTW MP, since I've neglected that part of my training. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif


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Taojah
10-31-2002, 11:40
Except for the spies and assassins, I follow this strategy also (on SP).

The only two extra points :
- Take every 3-resource coastal province (Flanders, Antioch, Sicily, Venice, Constantinople,...) and build big merchants there. Together with the boats they make ALOT of money.

- Take 3-4 iron provices ASAP (north Spain is the way to go), tech them all the way up until you have golden armour & weapons and exclusively build your main troops there.

starkhorn
10-31-2002, 16:10
Quote Originally posted by anymapkoku:
I can't understand people's fascination with SP. Just build a billion crusades and use the order foots to run over the world. Get crusades/a billion fmma/chic sergeants, and youre done. Where is that strategy in that? I keep hearing about the almhohads being so great and everything, but they get raped by byz infantry alone, probably by 16 fmma/order/chivS as well. The computer is stupid. Period. End of story. It doesn't take brains to beat it. THe computer needs a replay save option so it is more challenging. The computer rolls over and dies even if you dont train/build non peasants units or mercs.[/QUOTE]

Groan...not another interesting thread being hijacked by MP vs SP insults. Some people like SP (normally people like me who are without broadband connections), others like anymapkoku like MP. Why can't people just leave it at that ?

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"Let your manhood be seen by the push of your pike!" Owen Roe O'Neill at the Battle of Benburb 1646

Pellinor
10-31-2002, 16:26
I have to agree that half a dozen agents and 12 militia units seems like huge over-kill. I've been sticking a 4-acumen peasant in as duke of each province, with a temporary occupation force to drive loyalty up a bit. I've had one rebellion inside my borders in the last 50 years. I hardly use agents at all, except for scouting and some bribery

I started off using v.high tax with bigger garrisons, and I found that I was rowing against the tide - you need bigger and bigger garrisons to stay above 120%. If you go low tax to start with, and normal thereafter, 100 peasants will quite happily hold the place without a problem.

That leaves lots of troops for the borders, but I don't garrison more than 16 or 20 units - more than that only if I expect a big attack, which is only if I've just taken the place.

My cardinal rules would be, probably in this order:

- Keep your people happy;
- Keep your borders short;
- Attack one enemy at a time.

Graymane
10-31-2002, 18:06
Thanks for all the comments and replies. I will try some of the advice given and see what happens with my current Denmark game. I generally let the computer manage my tax rates because I am usually busy doing something else. I will also try some smaller garrisons of varying qualities and see how they hold up.

As far as multiplayer goes, I wasn't even aware that the campaign could be played online, I thought it was only the battles?

RJV
10-31-2002, 18:45
Graymayne,

No MP campaign I'm afraid. Not now. Not ever.

And don't let comp manage your taxes. It'll keep 'em as high as it can, doing it's best to leave each province over 100% loyalty. The result is yes, more cash, but more provinces forever on the edge of rebellion. Better to look after them yourself, and as someone said earlier, start off low, small garrison, and gradually build up (some provinces take longer to come round to your way of thinking, natch).

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There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers...

KukriKhan
10-31-2002, 18:49
Quote Originally posted by Graymane:
As far as multiplayer goes, I wasn't even aware that the campaign could be played online, I thought it was only the battles? [/QUOTE]

You're correct there. Sorry if I misled. CA gave serious thought to making the campaign multi-player, but nixed it as too-hard to implement this time 'round. Maybe for the next TotalWar game.



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sodoff
11-02-2002, 01:27
All this nonsense about a "holding force". What use is a holding force? What u need is a force great enough to keep the population in check, other than that you only need large standing forces in provinces that are threatened (i.e. may be attacked by other factions).

A solid navy and ports in all coastal provinces provide good mobility, so there should be little problems in shifting large forces to plug up any holes that may arise from successful attacks by the enemy.

The crucial thing in expert mode is a healthy economy. Some florins in reserve and a good income will get you further than x amount of arrow-fodder sitting around in your keeps and castles waiting for all hell to break loose.

AgentBif
11-02-2002, 01:59
Quote Originally posted by Graymane:
Since revolts seem to be based on the number of troops in a province as opposed to their quality, use the cheaper ones.

Maint costs for Spanish:
arb/xbow - 23
urban/serg militia - 30
peasants - 38
[/QUOTE]

If it's number of men that count, then peasants are cheaper: .38fpm (florins per man) per man rather than .50fpm

All of these units have the cheapest per-man cost and so I prefer them for garrison: peasants, crossbows, arbaleste, gallowglass, highlanders, kerns.

Of course, peasants aren't worth a damn in a fight while militia with a valor bonus (from higher level training buildings) are reasonably capable bulk troops (with armor piercing!) If I have peasants in an army, I often expend them to anchor an enemy unit while a shock squad smacks them upside the flank.

For important garrisons I usually use 2 spear, 2 xbow, 2 militia, maybe 2 peasants. For non-threatened provinces, I just use two cheap units. Overall, I rely on spies to keep the tax rate up (they have no maintenance cost and so are the cheapest garrison of all).

I have yet to finish my initial campaign and so I've yet to experience the full fury of expert mode. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif Perhaps my garrison policies are not suitable for the REAL game?

bif

AgentBif
11-02-2002, 02:03
Quote Originally posted by sodoff:
A solid navy and ports in all coastal provinces provide good mobility, so there should be little problems in shifting large forces to plug up any holes that may arise from successful attacks by the enemy.[/QUOTE]

I always worry about the ill-timed arrival of a single enemy fleet shutting down my sea transport lanes just when I need a mobile police army to quench a rebellion.

bif

Nelson
11-02-2002, 03:03
anymapkoku, you don't have to understand the campaign game's popularity but you should be grateful. Without SP there could be no MP. The SP guys make it all possible. Sales and business and profit and such.

So on behalf of the vast hoard of SP campaigners who are the harbingers of success for the Total War series, let me offer this heartfelt "You're welcome" .

anymapkoku
11-02-2002, 03:52
Assuming the MP even is a success, that's like saying without Italy there'd be no Pizza Hut around the corner from me on east Street.
"Thanks Wolf_Paolai."

[This message has been edited by anymapkoku (edited 11-01-2002).]

fenir
11-02-2002, 11:26
ROFLMAO

12 Units per province??? Are you mad?

I have one or two, and never have a revolt. And I get over 200% loyallty all the time.

You should have in every non frontier province,
1 Arbalester Cost 22 Florins support
English use Highlanders, Cheap and will kill most things. Cost 22 Florins

but use what ever unit from any faction. Total must be atleast 100 men.

Total cost per non frontier province 44 florins.

Also included as you get them, 1 Assinsin 4 Spys, and one bishop or cardinal perferred.

Always make sure you have happy buildings.

1187AD as the english, I have 26874Florins Revenue per year.
I have 4800 odd in Expenses. The rest is Profit.

Early period, Expert mode, and ALL province are on very High tax. From the first turn. I am still waiting for a rebellion. And I have won more times now than I can count, I now play more to a historical context, and mod the game where I can.
For a more complete understanding of how to really play the SP mode, please consult DD's Downloads and guides, they are more or less the best and complete.
www.fourbelowzero.com (http://www.fourbelowzero.com)

Using 12 militia units in a province (or 12 of anything) is an absolute waste, of man power and money.


This has been a public service announcement, brought to you by the society for the prevention of wasting time and money.

Richard the Slayer
11-02-2002, 14:00
Quote Originally posted by RJV:
Graymayne,

No MP campaign I'm afraid. Not now. Not ever.

And don't let comp manage your taxes. It'll keep 'em as high as it can, doing it's best to leave each province over 100% loyalty. The result is yes, more cash, but more provinces forever on the edge of rebellion. Better to look after them yourself, and as someone said earlier, start off low, small garrison, and gradually build up (some provinces take longer to come round to your way of thinking, natch).

[/QUOTE]

I think you underestimate CA's boldness. I can almost guarantee you 99% they weill have multiplayer campaign in the patch. Considering everyones request for it CA will make it a priority just like Civ3 did. Heres the catch - because the RTS battles go on during the campaign game, and because they occur in diff lengths, the multiplayer campaign online will not include battles, hence they will be auto-resolve. Seeing as many stratgey map games like Civ3 have multiplayer, it will be quite easy for CA to do this. Just remember, no RTS battles will be fought out if they make a campaign MP game (it would be a damn miracle if they could include the RTS battles as well, but that could be a sign of the apocolype as I dont know how the hell the could do it without you waiting half an hour for the end of the turn). So basically CA will satisy both MP needs, ppl who like the campaign and ppl who like the battles.

Richard the Slayer
11-02-2002, 14:02
Quote Originally posted by Richard the Slayer:
I think you underestimate CA's boldness. I can almost guarantee you 99% they weill have multiplayer campaign in the patch. Considering everyones request for it CA will make it a priority just like Civ3 did. Heres the catch - because the RTS battles go on during the campaign game, and because they occur in diff lengths, the multiplayer campaign online will not include battles, hence they will be auto-resolve. Seeing as many stratgey map games like Civ3 have multiplayer, it will be quite easy for CA to do this. Just remember, no RTS battles will be fought out if they make a campaign MP game (it would be a damn miracle if they could include the RTS battles as well, but that could be a sign of the apocolype as I dont know how the hell the could do it without you waiting half an hour for the end of the turn). So basically CA will satisy both MP needs, ppl who like the campaign and ppl who like the battles. [/QUOTE]

Whoops I said patch I meant expansion, perhaps wishful thinking?