Is EA killing gaming and the public market.

[Veho Nex]

Following up on Martok's Spore DRM thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2010655#post2010655) I've been wondering if it's just that EA is trying to kill the industry. There used to be a thread from a long while back about EA buying the rights to some games and then making an absolutely horrid expansion or part two. And now they plan to implement all their games with SecuRom and the like. It's funny if you think about it, take a look at the numbers, after reading the amazon customer reviews I went and took a look for my self at the amount of people pirating it, 5000 odd seeders with over 56,000 people downloading it? and from the the comments it seems that the pirated version will save you money and time in the end(NOTE DO NOT PIRATE ITS BAD!!) But it seems now that if I happen to uninstall spore to open up some space on my computer two more times, I'm stuck with either paying 30-50$ again or god forbid pirate it.

Now on to my main subject, Look at the past and look at the future does EA want to kill PC gaming and focus in on one market, or do you think they will change their minds and release a public statement apologizing for their screwy anti pirate schemes(Which failed horribly, yes I'm talking to you EA if you ever want my money again and what looks like most other people who feel the same way) then you will want to ask people to contact you so you can replace all of their games for free, with out your idea of a Secure, we won't get pirated program.

heres a picture from my scans of the internet.(Cannot link because of rules)

http://us3kids.com/cblog/uploads/kittens.jpg

Now from what I've read it seems that over 300,000 people have finished downloading spore, now multiply all that by 50 and you get $15,000,000 lost in just the first week of release... now EA please cut your losses and stop killing

Ehhh hopefully no rules were violated in this thread

[Mailman653]

I agree that pirating is bad and companies need to do something about how they protect their software or investments, but that kind of tech is not the solution. From personal experience I have games that I've installed five or six times or more over the years, MAFIA being one example, must of installed and uninstalled that game ten times in the X # of years that I own the game.

I would be highly disappointed as I'm sure many of those Spore customers are if I couldn't install a game that I purchased as many times as I want because other people seek to make an illegal profit. And that other kind of protection is no good either, the kind that requires an internet connection which checks your game every few days to make sure its legit, otherwise it won't work.

Too be frank, I think piracy will never go away, as long as their is a demand and a profit to be made, someone out there is going to find a way to crack a game open and although I'm not saying that nothing should be done about it, I don't think that the consumer should have to pay for companies absurd attempts at trying to solve the situation because obviously fro the image above, it's not working.

I would offer suggestions on how to fix the problem instead only pointing out the problem, but I have no clue how to protect the companies and consumer from piracy, this is something that both the music and movie industry have been trying to deal with for decades and still can't get it done. At least they don't limit the times you can listen to a CD or watch a DVD which was purchased legally.

[Navaros]

A pirated download is not always equivalent to a lost sale so you can't accurately equate the revenue lost on a formulaic basis like that.

However, with crap like '3 install limit', indeed EA is killing gaming the public market and inspiring those who would normally buy games to pirate download them instead .

It's is very ironic how publishers of PC games often 'blame piracy' for PC gaming being pretty much dead, yet if they didn't kill it in the first place with their 'anti-piracy' DRM horse manure that doesn't even work anyways and just serves to prevent legitmate purchases, then it wouldn't have died.

[CountArach]

Is EA killing gaming and the public market.
Short Answer: Yes
Long Answer: Yes, and I hate them for it.

[pevergreen]

A pirated download is not always equivalent to a lost sale so you can't accurately equate the revenue lost on a formulaic basis like that.
Agreed, I have a...*cough* friend *cough* that go M2TW torrented when it came out. He was annoying at the lack of disks and reinstall ease etc, so he went out and bought the game and kingdoms.




Short Answer: Yes
Long Answer: Yes, and I hate them for it.

QFT. My opinion as well.

[Kekvit Irae]

Screenshots are dangerously close to violating the No Links rule, as anyone with half a brain will figure out where they were from (and I can identify all three). I have no problems with discussions about piracy (so long as it does not promote it), but I'd rather not see anyone unintentionally tip-toeing the line.

[rajpoot]

It's not right you know, piracy is not, but neither are the copy protection measures these guys are using..........I mean just three times!! And $ 50 for that?! They've got to be kidding! I've got a small HDD, I install and uninstall games every other day, put in some old game, take out some new one, put the new one back in and so on...............I'm just glad I didn't pre-order this game.
And come on EA, the consumers are buying your games, that is why you are still in business, if everyone becomes a pirate what'll you do?! Furthermore, most people know that to make the most of the game one needs to buy it. Online play comes only after purchase, and without it many a games are not half as fun as they can be.

[Husar]

Awww, what a cute scan you made a picture of there.
I should try piracy if it's that cute. :tomato:

But uhm, basically you think that EA's management is full of people who lost a son to computer games and came up with an evil scheme to earn millions by running a successful computer games publisher and ruining the industry by releasing bad games which everyone buys...
That's pretty clever, hadn't thought of that one before. :mellow:

[doc_bean]

No, they just have the same (kind of) people in their boards as most major record companies do.

[Big_John]

this thread needs more kittens.

[Lemur]

this thread needs more kittens.
Your wish, my command, etc.:


https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/funny-pictures-zombie-kitten-cat.jpg

As for EA, I can't really believe their incompetence. I liked the tone of this article: EA Ignored The Warnings; Now Getting Slammed For Spore's DRM. (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080909/0318592211.shtml)

[Veho Nex]

Bravo lemur just what i needed to read.

[rajpoot]

What does that last picture symbolic of? Us sitting on the publisher's head or the DRMs sitting on ours? :laugh4:

[Gregoshi]

What does that last picture symbolic of? Us sitting on the publisher's head or the DRMs sitting on ours? :laugh4:
That depends whether or not the cat has only 3 lives...


Of course, you could pray to God to authorize an extra life if the cat needs it.

[Praxil]

How about those bigger cats, those animals after us humans on the top of the food chain?

Anyway, no EA is biggest publisher in the industry, not in quality but in quantity. As far as I'm concerned, they're just maximizing profit. At least trying to do so.

[Martok]

Well certainly I'm of the mindset that EA -- along with any other major publisher who includes DRM with their games -- is seriously damaging the PC game market. Granted, it was piracy that started events into motion, but it's the publishers' foolhardy response to it with draconian & invasive copy protection software that turned the whole thing into a vicious cycle.

At this point, our biggest hope is that they eventually see the light and follow Stardock's model: To *not* treat customers like criminals, and remove DRM from their games. To provide long-term post-release support -- not just in the form of patches, but meaningful updates/additions to their games (which incidentally, pirates won't be able to get because only owners of a legitimate copy can download said patches & updates). Releasing games that are actually complete, and not rushed out the door riddled with bugs.


I understand that EA wants to cut their losses from piracy, but the reality is that for all intents and purposes, it's impossible to do so. Copy protection software *doesn't work* -- really -- so it's time for them to try something else.



That depends whether or not the cat has only 3 lives...


Of course, you could pray to God to authorize an extra life if the cat needs it.

LOL. :laugh4:

Brilliant, Gregoshi! That's one of your best ones yet. :bow:

[Veho Nex]

EA is getting a lot of bad press now. All we need to sink the shot is a news report on CNN about one of the worlds largest going down in the PC realm cause of their thick headed anti pirate schemes.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/09/09/ea-gives-customers-middle-finger-with-lenient-red-alert-3-drm

[rajpoot]

EA is getting a lot of bad press now. All we need to sink the shot is a news report on CNN about one of the worlds largest going down in the PC realm cause of their thick headed anti pirate schemes.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/09/09/ea-gives-customers-middle-finger-with-lenient-red-alert-3-drm


Wow, they've upped it to five insted of three!!!!! That'll make the day for the gamers it will!!!!! :laugh4:

What are these people trying to do??!!! Someone shake them and wake them up!!! I checked the EA forum thread,
http://forums.ea.com/mboards/thread.jspa?threadID=430797&start=0&tstart=0
the link was in the article linked by Veho Nex..........the guys behind the show have themselves posted there, they seem to think they've made life so much better for their coustomers! lol, I wanted to quote stuff out of the pages, but they are worth reading, just so one knows how thick the EA are being.

[Caius]

Ea games should be sold at 1$ per copy and you will see how many pirates won't be bothered to do pirates games.

EA should also have GAMERS at their ranks. Not businessman. That's why we are getting the games we are getting.

[Abokasee]

EA never understood what we they where bombing amazon ratings for, I mean, we where moaning about DRM alltogether! :furious3:

[naut]

Won't be getting Red Alert 3 either then. Saves me AUS$80-90. :2thumbsup:

[Veho Nex]

Here's a white paper on DRM The cure or disease of PC gaming (http://www.byteshield.net/byteshield_whitepaper_0005.pdf)

[ArtistofWarfare]

Short Answer: Yes
Long Answer: Yes, and I hate them for it.

Just my 2 pennies:

EA, before it was a mega-giant in the industry was fantastic. Look at the early 90's Madden titles. It was far, far ahead of it's time.

As soon as some success started rolling in, things changed. Nothing shocking here...unfortunately this is the way of business in our capitalist society today. Money brings power and power brings a false sense of entitlement. EA developed this in the mid-late 90's.

At this point? EA is arguably (doesn't take much of an argument either) the most negative influence on the gaming industry that there is today. The stronghold they have on some of the most successful or highly anticipated titles there are, combined with their low quality, rushed releases, and worst customer service on earth in any industry, leaves us with little option but to watch the quality of gaming as a whole fall off the table.

In fairness, Sega isn't much better. Basically, just like "mom and pop" businesses being driven out all across the United States and replaced with large corporations and foreign investors etc, large corporations driving the smaller developers out (or under their wing) in the gaming industry destroys the intimate and personal relationship that businesses once had with the customer.

I understand bottom line profit increases are the #1 goal of any business. That said, there is a large gray area called "doing the right thing". Not for monetary gains or for a positive "image"...but simply for the purpose of "doing the right thing". I think businesses today who feel that the consumer base is so overly critical and demanding fail to realize that they've created this. If they're going to have linear goals as a company, the customer is going to have linear desires. I firmly believe that a company who is famously known for doing the right thing and standing shoulder to shoulder with the consumer (meeting them halfway), would be judged with a far more open minded and accepting eye. I mean after all - they would deserve it.

Unfortunately, I believe it will be a very cold and snowy day in hell before we see a reverse in the policies of large corporations today. In the gaming industry, in the medical industry - in any industry.

[Veho Nex]

After reading that I could only think of one company and I hope they become a leader like EA but on the white side not the dark... Stardock games.

[Decker]

A good sign of EA's hoarding should've been noted when it chickened out and bought the rights to the NFL to keep the Sega series (which I loved) from gaining popularity. They then went on and did the same for other areas of the genre. They pulled a Microsoft imho. And from now on since then, and their MOH series, I try and not to buy their products if I can help it. It's rather sad and pathetic that they did this. We can only hope that companies make their products less accessible pre-release in some way rather than taxing us with accusations that are unfounded. And yes they maybe a large part of why the PC Gaming industry is on hard times. But should they be blamed for a large part of it? I don't think so. Certainly their adoption of the DRM is a BIG no-no, but I find the fact that games are constantly getting better and better with graphics forcing many to upgrade their computers almost 2-3 times a year JUST to keep up. While the console industry only has to make a new system every 4 years maybe and have the games tailored to them. Now I'm seeing the Xbox being able to have downloadable content, almost like a computer! And when I look at computer games, and such, and go into the local gaming stores, I find myself left wanting. I have a 4-5 year old comp. and a PS 2 with almost no games being made for one while the other got left behind a year after I bought the thing. It's now to the point that I can't even play demos. I'm sure many can play, but with consoles getting some big blockbuster type games and not having to worry about the dang DRM, I'm not surprised that it's doing much better than the PC gaming industry.

I hope that wasn't toooo confusing

[Abokasee]

Lets look at this way:

EA = Mircrosoft

When it started, it made everyone else look old and dusty, then It got a bit up its self, then it got ****** royally (Anyone who knows bout the Broswer wars will know about that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft) court case)

Of course, theres little different, EA isnt 100% supreme like Mircosoft was, but its dam big, and its also abusing its power, I pray that other Publishers will not follow.

(Probably not as good as the "House on the lock analogy")
House on the lock analogy here

I was browsing the Spore forum threads this morning, just to see how angry the user base was and what EA is or isn't doing to address the problem. Anyway, I ran across a brilliant post that deserves reprinting. After a user compared the DRM to a lock on a house, a user responded (http://forums.ea.com/mboards/thread.jspa?threadID=432446&tstart=30):


Since you obviously like the "locking your house" analogy let's take it further.

Consider that when you buy your house you are forced by someone to use a super high tech lock to that house. It has eye scanners and finger print scanners and requires a key to use also. You've bought this house like say 100 000 others. out of those 100 000 there's a certain percentage that will not be able to enter their house because of faulty locks. Will that be you?

The lock is also integrated into the house so that should it ever have a hiccup you will be ejected from the house.

Should you in the future ever have to move to another house you are obligated to take the lock with you, but you will not be allowed to move more than 3 times. If you do the lock will stop working and you will be locked out of your house. Should the house ever burn down the lock will miraculously survive and this will count as if you moved once.

Should you have to move more than 3 times you will have to contact the company that built your house to activate more moves. This is an extensive process that can take weeks, and during that time you are locked out of your house.

Meanwhile, there are some people who move into houses and have locksmiths successfully remove the locks so that they will not be affected by any of the above procedures. It's quite easy even for you to do the same and it doesn't cost anything.

The only problem with the above description really is that the house is both representing your computer and the game itself.

Is this the way you would want your house to work? Then DRM is perfect for you.