PDA

View Full Version : Is Kim Jong-Ill?



Banquo's Ghost
09-09-2008, 20:06
Reports are circulating that the Dear Leader may be gravely ill (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/missing-kim-jongil-may-have-had-stroke-924230.html) - or perhaps even already dead - since he has been missing for the last three weeks or so. Most tellingly, he did not attend the huge military parade marking the 60th anniversary of the establishment of the Workers' Paradise on Earth.

Odd things tend to happen to states entirely dependent on the cult of personality when said personality dies. What do we think may happen in North Korea in the coming days and months?

Missing Kim Jong-il 'may have had stroke'

By Andrew Buncombe, Asia Correspondent
Tuesday, 9 September 2008

Speculation is mounting that Kim Jong-Il, the leader of the hermit nation North Korea, has suffered a stroke and is gravely ill.

A US intelligence official today told reporters it appeared that the secretive North Korean leader has suffered a stroke, though she did not reveal her evidence. The speculation intensified after the man known as the Dear Leader failed to appear at an important national celebration yesterday that he would normally have been expected to attend.

"It does appear that Kim Jong-il has suffered a health setback, potentially a stroke," the official said in Washington, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Reports from South Korea suggested that the 66-year-old was taken ill late last month and that he was still too ill to appear in public. Quoting another unidentified official, this time one based in Beijing, one report suggested this was put as the reason for his absence from North Korea's 60th anniversary parade, which instead featured a scaled down celebration featuring a civil defence unit and ordinary citizens.

In sharp contrast, the ruler - who succeeded his father, Kim Il-sung following his death in 1994 - attended both the elaborate 50th and 55th anniversaries which featured a display of military hardware. "It's unclear what but something unusual seems to be transpiring," said an announcer on South Korea's MBC channel.

In the absence of Mr Kim, those who participated in yesterday celebrations had to make do by offering a statement of loyalty to him. In a joint statement, the country's main ruling bodies including the Workers' Party, the cabinet and the military said he had built a "powerful war deterrent that can safeguard the nation's survival."

It added: "If the American imperialists dare ignite the flames of war, we will mobilise all our powerful potentials to mercilessly punish the invaders and win decisively in our great showdown against the United States."

It is not surprising that the condition of Mr Kim, said to suffer from diabetes and a chronic heart condition, should be the focus of such intense speculation around the world. If he really is in failing health - and last night there was no confirmation of the US's claims - it could add further uncertainty to the relationship with one of the world's most isolated and unpredictable regimes.

The claims about Mr Kim's health come as relations between North Korea and the West have entered something a stalemate. Last November, in what was seen as a major diplomatic coup for the Bush administration, the North Korean regime agreed to abandon its nuclear weapons programmes in return for economic and political rewards from the United States and its allies.

North Korea promptly began disabling its Soviet-era nuclear plant in Yongbyon, north of the capital, Pyongyang. But last month the dismantling process stopped as North Korea complained that Washington had still not removed it from its official terrorism blacklist. It was said that the decision to halt the close-down of the plant was taken by the country's powerful military establishment, which had always opposed the deal brokered with the US, Russia, Japan, South Korea and China. When North Korean diplomats notified their US counterparts of the suspension, they did so in a note that explained the move was being taken "due to pressure from the relevant agencies".

Yesterday in Washington, the US official who claimed that the North Korean may be seriously ill, added: "What we do know is that he was not at the military parade. That is quite unusual and reinforces a lot of what we've been hearing."

Gregoshi
09-09-2008, 20:20
It added: "If the American imperialists dare ignite the flames of war, we will mobilise all our powerful potentials to mercilessly punish the invaders and win decisively in our great showdown against the United States."
A friend of mine used almost that exact some line playing D&D some years ago...

HoreTore
09-09-2008, 20:57
Well, nothing happened when his father died, so....

drone
09-09-2008, 21:02
I think that's because Kim Jong-Il was already set in place as a successor. I don't believe the current Kim has placed any of his sons on that pedestal yet.

ICantSpellDawg
09-09-2008, 22:08
I don't usually buy into conspiracy theories, but I'm inclined to believe the extreme accusation by a few Japanese intelligence guys that Kim is in fact dead and has been impersonated by look-alikes to avoid the cataclysm that might result from such a reality. They claim that voice recognition has been unable to confirm that Kim's speaking voice has come from the same person over the past 5 years.

KarlXII
09-09-2008, 23:24
I also wonder the status of Osama with the coming of 9/11/08

Mikeus Caesar
09-10-2008, 08:52
I also wonder the status of Osama with the coming of 9/11/08

Osama is most likely alive. He's had his 15 minutes of fame and has retired to a quiet cottage somewhere in the mountains of Pakistan.

On the other hand, when the insane leader of the most bizarre country on Earth, and potential nuclear power, is missing, presumed duplicated, then there is definitely cause for concern.

ShadesPanther
09-10-2008, 14:45
It's going to be like Father in Equilibrium!

Martok
09-10-2008, 20:32
First off, I just have to say that I think the guy has been "ill" for a long time. Certainly, there's always been something about the man that gives one the impression that his phaser banks ain't exactly "fully charged", if you know what I mean. He reminds me of a spoiled brat kid who never learned that it's cruel to pull the legs off of a frog that's still alive. :no:



I think that's because Kim Jong-Il was already set in place as a successor. I don't believe the current Kim has placed any of his sons on that pedestal yet.
Exactly. At no point has there been any real indication that one of his sons -- or anyone else, for that matter -- is the heir-apparent. If Jong-Ill is in fact dead, then North Korea is almost certainly facing a great deal of turmoil.

Devastatin Dave
09-10-2008, 22:21
I love the thread title!!!:laugh4:

Didn't one of his sons run to Japan?

Sarmatian
09-11-2008, 01:12
Odd things tend to happen to states entirely dependent on the cult of personality when said personality dies. What do we think may happen in North Korea in the coming days and months?


Well, coming from a country we all not what happened with when said personality died, I may offer some insight.

It entirely depends on what was that personality's position. In a case of Yugoslavia, Tito was holding different nationalities and ethnic groups together. In case of North Korea it's ideology. Apart from misery, they have no other reason to cling to that ideology. So unless some other equally strong person shows up to control instruments of force (police and army) that will probably be the end of that ideology. It's a question of successor.

rory_20_uk
09-11-2008, 15:06
Assuming he's dead / incapacitated:

He "rules" for a few more years whilst those nearest and dearest fight for power. When one gets enough of it the dear leader then makes him successor and dies peacefully some time after that.

We in the rest of the world leave them to it, as the death spasms of the regime if if did implode would probably destroy swathes of South Korea first.

~:smoking:

Carlos Matthews
09-12-2008, 00:13
Yeah the lookalike will keep it up a bit longer. I wonder if he is on Kim's salary?

KarlXII
09-12-2008, 01:31
We could compare this to Castro, in a way. Once this becomes confirmed by N. Korean and other sources, Kim will appoint a successor and life goes on....

KrooK
09-12-2008, 15:30
Its quite possible
Have you seen "Equilibrum". Noth Korea is very similar to that movie.

Meneldil
09-13-2008, 00:04
Call me crazy, but actually, I think N. Korea is more similar to USSR under Stalin's rule than to a half-arsed Sci-fi movie were people fight using Katana and Jedi-like superpower.


Btw, the thread title makes me laugh each time I read it. :2thumbsup:

Sarmatian
09-13-2008, 00:33
We could compare this to Castro, in a way. Once this becomes confirmed by N. Korean and other sources, Kim will appoint a successor and life goes on....

Depends. It's not just a matter of appointing successor. That successor has to have intelligence, strong personality and charisma. All dictatorships are based somewhat on a cult of personality. If the person is not good enough, there is a decent chance he or she won't be able to control everything...