RuSheS

[TheDarkDwarf]

i try to do these 'rushes' but, i cant, for some reasoon, its like the enermy see it coming, i usually end up tell ing my whole army to kill taisho, lol, never works though :P what is the secret about rushes ? ? ? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

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Never underestimate the power of Dwarfs..

[Karhu]

The great thing about STW is that rushes don't work http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif .

[theforce]

They work if the attacker has 16 melle units(most time monks and nd) and it's a flat map eg.Totomi. And if your projectile units aint working thee are dead. Try making a plan of attack. There are some times though than you mustt rush the defender this is done though mainly in many players games http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://darksideclan.fateback.com
Enter the Darkside...

[RageFury]

um...rushes....do we mean chargin here...i.e.. after all ur ammo is spent u charge the enemy with monks no dachi and yari whilst trying to flank..blah blah...

or do we mean when we get all our units click on the enemy and hope for the best??

I really wanna know wot people define as a rush


-Fury

[theforce]

A rush is a mindless-selectall, make em all attack one unit!

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://darksideclan.fateback.com
Enter the Darkside...

[Puzz3D]

Fury,
To me 'rush' means to close the gap between you and the enemy quickly usually with just about everything you've got in the hopes of giving the enemy commander too much to handle.

TheDarkDwarf,
You have to do some good unit micromanagement for the rush to work well. Because fatigue is a factor, you want to try and get some individual flank attacks to tip the balance back in your favor. Targeting a single enemy unit with all of your units will cause your units to bunch up. That's not a good thing because you take away your flanking options, your bunch can be flanked by the enemy and you can't get good unit-to-unit matchups.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[Obake]

The key to a successful Monk rush is praying that your opponent has set up at the front edge of his deployment zone and having that wish granted! It also takes a fair amount of micromanagement skill.

In my mind there are only a handful of skilled rushers out there and for them, it is just another tool in their bag of tricks.

In particular I associate AMP with the rush. Although he rarely (if ever) uses it any more, my first couple of games against AMP I was slaughtered by his monk rush tactic. As a result, I learned very quickly to set up no closer than the mid point in my deployment zone. Elmark also used to be a good rusher.

There are those who use the mindless select all and charge, but they are no more troublesome than a mosquito. A true rusher manipulates his troops like a choreographer and his dancers. You are swarmed, flanked, and out of the game before you can even respond.

As much as most people despise the rush, when done correctly it is truley awe-inspiring artistry in action.

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Obake

I warned you, but did you listen? Ohh, no...it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?

[shingenmitch2]

Oh, Rush ... gotcha ... I thought we were talking about the 70s/80s band from Canada with that Geddy Lee guy...

FURY -- rush ... we mean like, what you do ... you know, click on the enemy and hope for the best. (grin)

[Kraellin]

it's always interesting to me that some tactics in games like this tend to get a bad odor associated with them. rushing and camping seem to be the ones in this game that are 'odiferous'.

stw is quite interesting in its nature in that unlike the empire building games where you build up your forces and then attack or defend, stw gives you your entire force for the game right at the start and in equal amounts of resources. there is no 'rush' advantage unlike some of the other games out there. in a game like total annihilation (TA), folks would complain about 'rushers' and those were defined as someone who doesnt bother building up his forces before attacking, he just starts attacking right away with anything and everything he could make quickly, including his main unit, the commander unit.

in stw there is no such advantage and complaining about 'rushers' is the same as saying, 'i dont know how to defend myself even though i have absolutely the exact same starting resources all on the field'. so, rushing in this game has no great advantage or disadvantage, which is quite nice. so it really boils down to tactical play...how good are you. even the infamous 'monk rush' can be countered pretty easily in the hands of an inept player, whereas a good player can, like someone else said, seem like poetry in motion.

camping also seems to be one of those bad words in this game, but that also seems to be complaints of 'i dont know how to beat this'. a 'camper' seems to be someone who is smart enough to utilize the high ground and that doesnt respond to the taunts of an enemy to 'come down here, give up your advantage, and fight me'.

this game is one of the few i've ever seen that is pretty darn fair. except for terrain given at the start there are no advantages or disadvantages given to any one side. and if you want to eliminate terrain then simply play on Green.

as to the original question of how to rush...heh....practice, practice, practice ;)

K.

[shingenmitch2]

KREAL -- I agree totally. The monk rush is stupid tactical play, and becomes troublesome only in high Koku battles. But it is a viable play option.

People getting upset about camping kills me. The point of being on defense is to pick your ground. Now camping might be stupid if you have allies who need your help, but it is the PREROGATIVE of the Defender to camp. If you don't like defenders who camp, don't attack.

The attacker's PREROGATIVE is the weather.

The Host's prerogative is the map.

Simple as that.

The ONLY time I would complain about a camper is if he started the game as the ATTACKER. Attackers MUST attack. If you didn't want to attack, then don't join a game as such.

[This message has been edited by shingenmitch2 (edited 05-08-2001).]

[BanzaiZAP]

Camper/Rusher arguments is one reason I don't do much online play. I agree that the defender has every right to dig in wherever they choose. To balance this, the attacker should get more koku. In most situations, the attacker will only attack when they think the enemy will be outclassed. 3000/5000 is a pretty good ratio if you intend on playing like that, but finding people willing to either attack up hill, or take a big koku-loss is apparently very tough. Does the honor-system even take that kind of thing into account? Personally, I like bridge battles, either attacking OR defending, and the different-koku-conditions make these more playable for both side. With equal koku armies, the defender should almost always win, and what's the fun of a foregone conclusion?

-- B)

[Krasturak]

Krast thinks of 'rushing' differently.

A 'rush' is a select-all and quick march command used to close the range with melee troops. When it is done properly, the units move onto the enemy army in a useful formation, and the individual attacking units are given attack orders as desired once the action at the line of contact becomes clear.

Krast's Evil Army quakes in fear when attacks of this type are approaching.

An attack consisting of select-all, double-click on enemy Taisho results in a mish-mash of converging units that are easily flanked, difficult to re-direct and control, and a general failure to exploit the capabilities of the units involved.

Krast enjoys cutting the heads off those who try this type of attack.

When attacker/defender/camping arguments are raised, Krast rarely sees anyone mention the advantage that accrues to the attacker when the defending force immoiblizes itself by clinging to a prominent terrain feature.

Krast enjoys cutting the heads off players who give up mobility/flexibility in exchange for a lump of dirt.

[TheDarkDwarf]

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif wow, the most replys ive had in any topic :P keep em coming, im going for a record

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Never underestimate the power of Dwarfs..

[Dunhill]

I thought I'd heard from one post that a rush could be accomplished by a select all and charge to a point behind the opponent.

I can't say I've tried it yet though.

[Puzz3D]

Dunhill,

You can do that and your units won't converge, but unless you have a clear cut advantage it may not work too well. This tends to slam your reserve units into the line wherever they happen to be and they won't be available to meet developing threats. You can also end up with units going too far behind the enemy if you get busy and forget them. If you have your main line as a separate group, then it makes sense to move it forward and engage as a group, but even then I would not click much beyond the enemy front line.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan takiyama ~~~

[ShadowKill]

hmmm. rushes i like rushes but let me tell some of you.. which do not understand it it does take alot of skill to perfect this sort of army.

now some do they grab 16 monks and run in clicking on one unit to attack i agree that is not skill. but when you take other unit IE muskets/archers and combine them with a strong rush army you have to click fast and select carfully your units to attack you don't want your men to get all togther. no kris crossing,yari rush cav,monk rush monk,ND rush yari it is all about picking your target and getting there in a timely fashion. WHAT EVER YOU DO NEVER LOOK BACK http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Clan Shades
come by and give us a visit (http://www.geocities.com/shadesofshogun/index.html)
ShadeLord Shiba a member of clan shades

[Dunhill]

I thik the tactic is probaly best suited for specialised groups. I seem to think this is what is normally done with the monk rushes. The monks are selected as a group and rushed through the muskets in front. The result is a full line of monks charging across a wide front at the same time, and is very effective when combined with muskets.

These are, in effect, the reserve troops which have been sitting behind the muskets.

I don't often charge groups, but move as groups and then micor manage as I engage, which can slow me down a bit. I thik this tactic just increases unit cohesion and keeps the attack coordinated.

[TheDarkDwarf]

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

[Vanya]

He he he...

I once played a 3v3 with some other folks... and one of my teammates got himself 16 ashigarus. One of the opponents got themselves 16 monks. And, oddly enough, they were positioned opposite each other. So, the monk man charges his men at the rabble. What a sight it was -- seeing 960 monks screaming bloody Buddha was a site that would scare the bejeezus out of any peasant. But these rabble chaps must have been legionnaires of the Cross, for they were not impacted by the Buddhist army's jihad against them. Instead, the ashigaru responsed with a mass charge of their own -- they charged the monks with a yari in one hand and what looked like a book in the other! When the two armed masses collided, there was some confusion as they proceeded to butcher each other in the name of their respective religions. In the end, the peasants won, for they had been blessed with celestial honor. But only a dirty dozen or so remained of their original contingent of 960. Funny thing was, more monks ran off the field than there were ashigaru that survived. So, there they stood, praising themselves for delivering their message of universal love to the heretics as their allies had to fight each other now. But, did they come to help us deliver their message to our foes? Nooooo! They were content to let us pagan heretic upper-crust samurai bastards kill each other off while they bathed in the blood of their own victims!

[Steeleye]

Vanya - I'm sure my Peoples' Army of Span which I sometimes field would appreciate the wisdom of the books you saw - my bamboo/cudgel-wielding comrades have rather an inconsistent record against the oppressive bushidists of the shogunate...

Power to the rice paddy collective!

Kyodaispan

[Dunhill]

Yesterday I met a rush variant. The all no rush. We still haven't had much wisdom on how to defend against such a full frontal rush.

My army got caught in a shift before I realised all his units were NDs and they were charging right across the few hundred metres left between us.

I didn't have much time to go for the flank as the other half of my army crumbled and fled.

I don't want to rely on too many guns or monks to defeat this army, but I'm sure I'll meet him again until I figure out a good tactic.

Any real tactical advice on this one guys? I've been thinking entrapment would be best. Lure him into a keyhle and smash him, because this guy doesn't wait around for long.

Lets here some good mon and musk minimal strategies.

Cheers,

[Magyar Khan]

shadowkill used to be a masterrusher once, he could help u.

nowadays i like anthrox8 rush army

[Tachikaze]

How to face a rush?

If the rush is coming from one direction, in a mass, meet it with handful of naginata or yaris a bit in front of your line of battle. Use the highest-honor troops you have. Spread out the units only three-deep to make a thin wall. These poor fellows will stop the charge long enough to allow the rest of your army to encircle the enemy melee units.

While your opponents are slowed down, hit the enemy melee with all the missiles you have. Place the teppo directly in front, so if they run, they won't pass through your own force, and the melee units will chase, splitting the enemy force.

Place the archers to the sides so they won't be in the way of any of your units that route (the first units you used to stop the rush will route, if any are alive). Once they have spent their arrows, the archers can chase routing enemy or join the melee on the flanks.

If you time everything right, the enemy melee will ultimately be completely surrounded and in disarray. You will lose a lot of troops, but you will probably win the fight.

If your enemy is smart enough to rush in multiple waves, or with flanking units, this tactic won't work.

[Vanya]

Rush the rusher! He will be confused by your hostile blitz. Just run straight at his rushing army, give 'em a big ole wedgie, and kiss 'em goodbye!

[Tachikaze]

I wonder if bombers (the Korean type, not airplanes) will be a good anti-rush unit.

[TheDarkDwarf]

lol, vanya

[Kraellin]

funniest rush i ever saw was a fellow who started his whole army at his opponent in a full run. apparently he clicked on some point behind his opponent as his end point. as the fellow approached his enemy, the enemy army suddenly split apart, leaving a wide gap in its middle. the rusher, not really understanding what was happening kept rushing and entered that gap. the opponent then simply closed in on the rusher and crushed him from both sides...end of rush ;)

K.