View Full Version : Ever been crushed?
Moosemanmoo
09-17-2008, 17:23
I was just curious to know if anyone has ever had their faction wiped out, I've been forced out of territories by strong invading armies:surrender2: but my kingdom has always endured
Given that I usually play on hard/medium I'm sure others have faced bigger threats
So, whats the worst the AI has ever done to you?
I've played a few Saba and Hai games in the older versions which led to me giving up or starting over, (countless rows of pikes and steel, across the deserts and mountains, the horror!)
but the only time I've been eliminated was an older game as the Casse. I foolishly disbanded most of my troops on turn 1 and was beseiged by a stack of Caledonians, after three, desperate, brutal fights, my chariots lay in ruin. Look out when you play the Casse, its smooth sailing after those first few turns though.
Tristrem
09-17-2008, 19:11
i've been crushed many times...
starting with the pathians crushing my sarmations in 1.0
the AS killed the dream of a Hay empire in 1.0
goofing around i got wasted by the maks playing the KH in 1.1
I gave up as the after losing pella the the epiros the second turn and losing kornothos by the 4th turn.
But then again I usually do not take things seriously when i play, i really don't mind losing sometimes.
By the way i play on vh campiagn/m battles
Dubius Cato
09-17-2008, 19:30
As Parthia. The Saka has their sights on me, and I just couldn't overcome them. Archers (foot archers too) are simply the killers in this game. And if you use them yourself, you can't lose (except against an archer faction with armored HA).
I've never actually been beaten, but I tend to not play campaigns out to the end in the case of the smaller factions when it gets to the point where I'll just lose a war of attrition after fifty turns of three battles per turn.
Though I think that for all intents and purposes factions like say Carthage, Rome, Arche Seleukeia can't be killed period if the player is playing them, and that intrinsically takes a little bit away from the campaign in terms of 'fun factor'. I think a major goal of all mods, including EB, possibly for EB2 should simply the concept that the bigger factions can actually be conquered if the player doesn't play well.
Admittedly that's probably next to impossible.
Centurion Crastinus
09-18-2008, 00:08
What happens if your faction is conquered? Is there just a message, does it say game over?
Aemilius Paulus
09-18-2008, 00:24
What happens if your faction is conquered? Is there just a message, does it say game over?
Yeah, you get pretty much the same unique EB "faction destroyed" message with a different description.
EDIT: Not that I have actually been crushed, just check my sig, I haven't played very challenging factions:embarassed:. I have just read a mini-AAR where a guy got destroyed as Pahlava when he lost all of his family members in a single battle.
I got owned by about 20 stacks of Seleucid war machine as saba. I waited too long, didn't attack and traded with them. as I was killing off the egytians, it was killing off everyone around it. when we finally declared war, it brought 20 stacks toward me :( and they weren't marching separately, so I had no chance :( won 4 heroic victories with my 4 veteran stacks then I got steam rolled as I could not produce fast enough to cope with the remaining 10 stacks + more incoming. I resigned.
Aemilius Paulus
09-18-2008, 01:28
20 Stacks!!! Wow!:dizzy2:
Still, why do people seem to quit so easily? I would simply migrate by ship if faced with such an enemy as the Seleukids for instance. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't even try to resist the Arche Seleukia. It's the fight or flight response, and both in computer games as well as real life I would choose the latter. Fighting is fine when you actually have a chance of winning, but 20 stacks?!?! Definitely run. Why didn't you just migrate to India via ships, crazii?
BTW, what kind of troops were in those 20 stacks, that is if you still remember?
Migrating like that isn't exactly a great option. For one there is such a thing as 'AOR', meaning even if he did run away as the Saba he'd still have pretty much 0 soldiers that he could recruit in India, as well as the fact that he'd probably fail just trying to take those Indian cities, since he's kind of faced with overwhelming odds in the first place, he either loses or stacks trying to defend himself or hopes he can pay for and maintain and recruit four different fleets to transport his men to distant India, and then hold onto his core provinces for the few years it would take to sail to India.
If at any point you are no longer the faction you started out as, its probably time to quit. In this instance, he would've been the 'Indo-Sabans', which probably would've sucked.
Aemilius Paulus
09-18-2008, 04:20
Hmm, I see. Sometimes factions can get very good regional units, and the Saba actually have access to elephants, infantry guild warriors, indian longbowmen, parthian spearmen, persian archers as well as some minor units but I guess you're right, it's not as much fun. However, the migration can be temporary and since the forts are free in EB, you can build up all of the chokepoints with redundant forts and garrison them with a minuscule force of one understrength, cheap levy. The AI will usually take at least three turns to take each fort. This could be the delay that will buy a player time to assemble a fleet. Assembling fleet isn't that hard though. There are numerous types of one-turn training, one naval MIC fleets that you can recruit, quickly ferry the units and then disband.
Just look at Chris's Ludicrous migration. His was permanent and compared to Iberia, Arabia is right next door to India, which it actually is. The Saba migration needs to be only permanent. Also, when abandoning Arabia, one can tear down all of the happiness buildings to cause the settlement to immediately revolt back to you, creating a cycle that would soon wear out the Grey Death.
penguinking
09-18-2008, 04:39
As Casse.
The great Casse Empire was annihilated by five units of Caledonian Skirmishers.
That's what happens if you disband too many units at first.
most of those stacks are like 1/3 elite infantry(could be the phalanx silver shields or those 3 types of heavy assault infantry that Seleucid have on their roster). 1/4 skimisher + heavy elite archer. the rest are mostly medium phalanx + 1 or 2 general + 1 or 2 medium to heavy cavalry. I didn't quit because 20 stacks of light infantry :( I simply got owned by the quality of those stacks. saba has a very weak roster. if I start over again, I would probably get trade with egyptians, then start fighting the seleucids as soon as I am able. I think it was the money coming from the trade between us that enabled seleucid to kill those 4 small nations north of it. that was why it was able to concentrate all of it's army stacks toward me afterward. lesson learned right?
softiron
09-18-2008, 08:21
As Casse.
The great Casse Empire was annihilated by five units of Caledonian Skirmishers.
That's what happens if you disband too many units at first.
If it was only 5 units than it wasn't a great Empire, was it?
:)
Mithridates VI Eupator
09-18-2008, 15:34
Never been anihalated.
Have come to the point where the situation seems so hopless, I've just restarted the campaign, though.
(Almost got beaten as lusotannan once, when the Arevacii eleutheroi unexpectedly besieged my capital.)
Dutchhoplite
09-18-2008, 17:05
I'm being crushed at the moment :(
Bactria (me) vs Saka...
Celtic_Punk
09-18-2008, 21:35
well as baktria you can hold them off in the NE valley. good choke point. Sadly theres not many good choke points on the Battlemaps... thermoplay should be on the battlemap.
Ive been wiped out as Rome... i didn't attack carthage, allowed them expand, they took over all of africa and then eventually they declared war on me, steam rolled me at 220BC through sicily
dont like rome anymore... since i could have won if i just had Greek troops instead of these poor romans.
White_eyes:D
09-18-2008, 21:47
well as baktria you can hold them off in the NE valley. good choke point. Sadly theres not many good choke points on the Battlemaps... thermoplay should be on the battlemap.
Ive been wiped out as Rome... i didn't attack carthage, allowed them expand, they took over all of africa and then eventually they declared war on me, steam rolled me at 220BC through sicily
dont like rome anymore... since i could have won if i just had Greek troops instead of these poor romans.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: you died as the ROMANI????
*Dies laughing* but still though I lost once as the Saba against the Yellow fever in 1.0 ......:skull: they were nice enough to use only phalanxes against me....
Aemilius Paulus
09-18-2008, 22:25
(Almost got beaten as lusotannan once, when the Arevacii eleutheroi unexpectedly besieged my capital.)
Wow. I have never had the Eleutheroi besiege any of my cities. As a matter of fact, I have never had Eleutheroi attack me except that time I was passing by Eburonum as the Romani (by a full stack of silver chevron Celtic elites and slingers:skull:; had to reload the game and hire mercenaries so my army would not be annihilated before I pressed "End Turn" and fought the battle again). Is it normal for the Eleutheroi to be so aggressive?
Shadowwalker
09-18-2008, 22:54
At "hard" or "very hard" it happens quite often, at easy or even medium I never saw it. ~:)
At topic - got owned by the AS a couple of months ago. Played Hayasdan for the first time. :laugh4:
Celtic_Punk
09-18-2008, 23:00
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: you died as the ROMANI????
*Dies laughing* but still though I lost once as the Saba against the Yellow fever in 1.0 ......:skull: they were nice enough to use only phalanxes against me....
asshole, I was on VH/M and I only had Gaul. slow expansion, only FM leading armies, and only proper consular armies. They had Spain All of africa and all but messana on sicily. Romani are not invincible
Aemilius Paulus
09-19-2008, 00:18
asshole, I was on VH/M and I only had Gaul. slow expansion, only FM leading armies, and only proper consular armies. They had Spain All of africa and all but messana on sicily. Romani are not invincible
Why didn't you migrate? I've heard it's no fun without the factional troops, but the Romani can recruit quite a bit of regionals all around the Mediterranean. Did Carthage actually follow you all the way to Gaul, or did you you quit when losing most of your Italian cities?
I would actually like to play your savegame, since I like migration and taking-back-your-homeland type of challenges (not to mention that my Romani game was ridiculously easy, despite playing on H/M - it was my first EB campaign and despite the easiness it was very enjoyable) but alas, I am pretty sure that that savegame no longer exists.
I defeated Carthage in 265 BC and I have never seen it expand significantly in either my campaigns nor on the AI progression thread. It's strange that the Qarthadastim acted so aggressively. What version of EB were you playing when they steamrolled you?
Nachtmeister
09-19-2008, 01:01
Yep, last campaign with KH started out great, took Kydonia by means of spy and starting army in the first turn, brought army and general over to Sparte and disbanded the fleet, even started the siege on Korinthos and took it in the second turn, Chalkis third... And then I decided to try consolidating instead of blitzing Demetrias and Thermon.
(KH only have generals, skirmishers, slingers and levy-hoplites - oh, and peltasts but even they are too expensive to recruit at turns 3-20 unless you destroy stuff like the olympic games to get cash or loot your own cities)
After 3 turns, that full stack of phalangites, heavy hoplites, generals and peltasts returned from dealing with Epeiros' little invasion force... I couldn't look on as my dreams of empire were steamrolled out of existance by a black death so I re-started the campaign instead (don't like just re-loading in unfavorable situations although I suppose starting the campaign over is basically the same thing).
Now I hold the Balkan peninsula in an iron grip against the Epeirote remnant in Italy and Dacia.:hmg:
White_eyes:D
09-19-2008, 04:52
asshole, I was on VH/M and I only had Gaul. slow expansion, only FM leading armies, and only proper consular armies. They had Spain All of africa and all but messana on sicily. Romani are not invincible
*wipes tears from eyes* Yes, I can see how you got beat but I use FM leading for ALL campaigns VH/M as well with consular armies(not always proper I hire mercs sometimes:juggle2:). I think you just made it too hard on yourself:inquisitive: only WAY in the late game do I lose as the romani, can't stand HA's so I give up my take over the world plot.....:shame:
sanitarium
09-19-2008, 06:05
The Macedonians really have it in for me in my current campaign. It was becoming a hassle to fight off endless full stacks of Germans and Macedonians, so I decided I would invade Britain and set up a stronghold that Germany and Macedonia couldn't attack. Here's what the world looked like in 205 BC:
https://img84.imageshack.us/img84/432/empireoi7.jpg
Now, in 171 BC:
https://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2291/newempirehy2.jpg
Keep in mind, I'm Rome. I really didn't expect Macedonia to work as quickly as they did; it took them less than 20 years to conquer all of that territory. I'm not out of it yet though, I've got this guy garrisoned in Rome with an elite legion:
https://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8206/augustus2ct9.jpg
Best general I've ever had. I've already got a plan worked out to recapture southern Italy and Sicily. Then I'm going to jump across the Adriatic and go for the throat: aka Pella.
I have to admit thats kind of a weird plan you have there, haha. But its certainly an interesting set of maps to look at. I assume you got the Marian reforms?
sanitarium
09-19-2008, 06:27
I have to admit thats kind of a weird plan you have there, haha. But its certainly an interesting set of maps to look at. I assume you got the Marian reforms?
Actually, I'm up to the Augustan reforms now. My plan to ignore everything north of Rome and go straight to the heart of Macedonia may seem weird, but it'll make sense when you see this pic:
https://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5264/holymolyox5.th.jpg (https://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=holymolyox5.jpg)
Yeah, I'm not going anywhere near there.
Timoleon
09-19-2008, 07:59
Well, this must be the most strange campaign I've ever seen! It is alternative history but too...alternative. You must have a lot of fun. What are you difficulty settings?
Connacht
09-19-2008, 11:21
Oh-my-God.
Returning IT, once banally with Baktra by sending all troops to Kophen while an eleutheroi full stack army sieged my capital with just one garrison.
I should try to play again with Baktrians, they must be indeedly fun.
https://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5264/holymolyox5.th.jpg (https://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=holymolyox5.jpg)
Yeah, I'm not going anywhere near there.
Good lord. GOOD LORD.
Whoa.
Freakin' sweet.
sanitarium
09-19-2008, 14:50
Well, this must be the most strange campaign I've ever seen! It is alternative history but too...alternative. You must have a lot of fun. What are you difficulty settings?
This campaign is VH/M. Normally in my Roman campaigns, I follow historical expansion, but I got a little tired of repeating the same pattern every time I play as Rome. Now I get to take on an inconceivably strong Macedonian Empire. I am NOT looking forward to clearing that mess out of Cisalpine Gaul.
This campaign is VH/M. Normally in my Roman campaigns, I follow historical expansion, but I got a little tired of repeating the same pattern every time I play as Rome. Now I get to take on an inconceivably strong Macedonian Empire. I am NOT looking forward to clearing that mess out of Cisalpine Gaul.
Might I suggest the following: Fabian Tactics. Starve 'em to death, take settlements, scorch that Earth. Leave 'em penniless and for the love of everything bring in Egypt to fight as well.
facupay123
09-20-2008, 00:11
You should make the mother of all coallitions and make the Ptolies, Sweboz, Carthies and Dacians to attack Makedonia while the giants are busy fighting you have the chance to retake northern Gaul and if you can Corsica, who knows when will you need an island/stronghold in the mediterranean?.
back to the topic. Once while playing the Arverni got defeated by the Aedui, it was about 268 and I had managed to make almost a full stack of good units with the faction leader and I attacked the full stack of the Aedui near Gergovia. the battle was normal until I forgot about the Faction leader:oops: and it got killed... massive rout, lost 7/8 of the army and the Aedui took Gergovia wich had one or two units. I was in totall bankrupt, about -45000 minai because of my ex-main army and my two last settlements had small levy armies but I could still hold and their army was really weakened and I knew with a couple of heroic sieges I could retake Gergovia but then another massive Aedui army came from Mediolanum, I gave up:thumbsdown:.
sanitarium
09-20-2008, 00:17
Might I suggest the following: Fabian Tactics. Starve 'em to death, take settlements, scorch that Earth. Leave 'em penniless and for the love of everything bring in Egypt to fight as well.
Macedonia and Egypt are allies right now. My only hope is to start hitting their Greek cities in an effort to draw some of those full stack armies away from Italy. Luckily most of Macedonia's power is concentrated in western Europe, so my legion is going for the Balkans where it should be unimpeded.
Just got crushed as the Seleucid empire at RTR. Oh well. I tried to get crushed.
Aemilius Paulus
09-20-2008, 11:44
the battle was normal until I forgot about the Faction leader:oops: and it got killed... massive rout, lost 7/8 of the army and the Aedui took Gergovia wich had one or two units.
Why didn't you just reload? I now some people consider that cheating, but that's the fate of the whole campaign you're talking about here, not just another battle.
Lucio Domicio Aureliano
09-21-2008, 00:19
Even so, reload is never ever right. EB is all about history, can you reload in real life?
Aemilius Paulus
09-21-2008, 00:41
I understand you perfectly. I know that quite a bit of EB players do not reload when something goes wrong. But this is an entire campaign that were are talking about. Would you not reload the battle, if that battle, in which your general accidentally died in a charge in the back of an enemy unit, and that would cause you to lose your entire campaign?
Just think of all of those pleasant memories, incredible heroic battles you have won, the superb generals that you had all lost. If I suddenly for some reason lost my current Romani campaign, which would probably due to a corrupt save or a CTD, since I already own half of the world, I would probably fall into a depression. All of those hours lost for nothing?!? I would entirely quit EB if that happened to me.
horses do die when they charge fully into the pointy back end of a 5 foot pike! don't reload, takes the danger + fun out of the game.
Aemilius Paulus
09-21-2008, 04:56
Do you mean one should not reload even if not reloading means losing the campaign? If so, than maybe your name is rather accurate in describing you:laugh4:!
Do you mean one should not reload even if not reloading means losing the campaign? If so, than maybe your name is rather accurate in describing you:laugh4:!
Keep it civil, please.
Lucio Domicio Aureliano
09-21-2008, 14:39
Aemilius, i understand what you´re saying but i believe you should never reload, even if is going to cost a campaing ( it´s hard for one battle cost you an entire campaing, unless you´re in the beginning). It will be even more fun to try save a losing position.
Connacht
09-22-2008, 12:50
I think that, after all, EB is only a videogame, and one is free to play it in the way he prefers.
Men, don't do too many mental trips, just enjoy the game as you want to do - by reloading if you want, by not reloading if you don't.
Aemilius Paulus
09-22-2008, 12:59
It will be even more fun to try save a losing position.
Definitely so. I like challenges. However, what if that battle simply lost you the entire campaign, not just made it more difficult?
How would you lose the entire campaign from that one battle. If it was a battle on which the campaign did ride (for example defense of your last settlement) then I would say that there isn't any hope anyway. A story is successful regardless of whether I win or lose. In death there is still glory.
Foot
Dutchhoplite
09-22-2008, 16:03
My Hayasdan campaign isn't going well either ;)
In short this happened:
Took Kotais => Lost Kotais to Sauromatae => Took Mtskheta => Lost Arvamir to Seleucids (faction leader killed) => remaining troops marching to retake Arvamir (it's 260 BC).
Wish me luck ;)
Space_Ed
09-22-2008, 16:04
I nearly gave up on my first EB campaign as the Romani. I steamed north into Gaul, Germany and Iberia because I wanted to take on the new troops. Oh boy. I was at war with a united spain (lusotannans- they kept taking and retaking Massalia), a united Gaul (Aedui), a united Germany and Carthage. I had very little money and faced 4 great nations. Boy it was tough but I managed it by sending a sneaky force into southern spain and somehow managed to campaign north into Iberia whilst holding off the barbarians in Cisalpine Gaul. If I hadn't reloaded failed battles though I definately would have been annhilated....
h/h
matulafloris
09-22-2008, 19:11
Sanitarium, I would be really pleased if you could post that save of yours... I simply have to see it more closely
And again if anyone knew that does the military situation on the campaign map at the beginning of EU depend on who you're playing with/difficulty?
thanks
Nachtmeister
09-23-2008, 03:12
Sanitarium, I would be really pleased if you could post that save of yours... I simply have to see it more closely
And again if anyone knew that does the military situation on the campaign map at the beginning of EU depend on who you're playing with/difficulty?
thanks
Yes, the military situation is always changed to the disadvantage of the faction you are playing - two examples: If you play as Romani, Epeiros has a MIC in Taras and a half-stack army in there.
If you play as Epeiros, you have something like three units of levies in Taras and no MIC while the Romani have an army of 1 Triarii, 1 Principes, 1 Hastati and a FM right next to Taras with which they set siege to you immediately after you click "end turn" (in addition to the probably bolstered starting army in the Roman settlement north of Taras, Arpi I think).
The Koinon Hellenon have, among other things I don't remember precisely, 3 units of classical hoplites in Athenai at gamestart - however, if you play them you have only 1 unit of c. hoplites, and you can't recruit them for at least 4 years even if you manage to always have the cash left to upgrade the MIC in Athenai asap. Otherwise the KH would die in the first year of the game when played by the AI - levy hoplites are no match for phalangites on autocalc.
Factions would probably not even faintly resemble their historical strength if this were not so...
But I think they only have 2 outfits: one for human player and one for AI control. Makedonia seemed to have the same starting units both when I played Epeiros and when I played Koinon Hellenon.
Difficulty level I'm not sure about as I only played on VH campaign difficulty so far but I think I read somewhere in this forum that campaign difficulty mainly alters Eleutheroi starting garrisons and respawn rates... And general AI aggressiveness towards the human player probably.
Celtic_Punk
09-23-2008, 03:16
sorry man that save is looong gone. I got pissed off since it was only 200BC i only had polybians and worked hard to get Gaul. Once they took everything south of Rome they steamed Spain and gaul and were working on getting through the Western pass. Rome fell, and the grip closed in. I had no allies no trade rights anymore and only the valley north of italy. in the end i was surrounded by hundreds of fullstacks of crack commandos. my regiments were outnumbered by family members and the last battle took place outside segesta.I routed fullstack armies but was outlasted by the last 2 fullstack reinforcements.
this was 1.1
I made a vow... never play as the Romani again. In other news they are my best buds in my Spartan campaign. ~D
And about that Black Makedonian death... Hooooly crap. dont even bother trying to retake italy yet. Cut n run for pella do as much damage as possible there. expect eventual defeat. Sack a few settlements to bring their economy down and set them back a couple dozen turns. Consolidate in the Isles for a decade atleast make a few raids into france. Invade Normandy and Brittany with several stacks. Perhaps take Norway and Sweden. Gotland would be a decent investment aswell. from there you would beable to attack the Makedonians from anywhere along their entire northern flank.
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