New Eurogamer preview!!

[Martok]

Link (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=242108)


Another excellent preview! :2thumbsup: This one also has quit a bit of new information. Here's what I found to be among the more choice tidbits....


On rebellions & revolutions:

there will be a choice of joining either the loyalists or the revolutionaries
Good to hear this officially confirmed. I cannot wait to fight my first civil war! :jumping: Only question is, which side will I pick? ~D


And of course, the subject nearest & dearest to my heart:

The broadest is the AI, which has become one entity rather than be split into a campaign-brain and a battle-brain. The effect is opposing battle generals acting according to an overarching campaign goal, which can be as subtle as not wasting effort on a strategically unimportant area, or as drastic as drawing players into dummy battles; distracting them from the real threat or forcing them to divide their attention. The battle AI itself has also been completely rewritten, and now reacts in a plan-based rather than state-based way, which prevents predicting that the computer will do A if attacked with B. Plus, these decisions adapt to suit the overall battle plan, which in turn is bossed by the overarching campaign plan. Even the generals have unique personalities that set them apart. The combined result is an AI that feels eerily human, and one that sparks battles with the element of surprise and unpredictability.
Gods, please let this be true. The rational part of my brain keeps telling me it's too much to hope for, but I can't help but get excited at the prospect. :jumping:



Cavalry also no longer flattens infantry, and the effect is hefty blurring of the paper, scissors, stone unit hierarchy. Empire, it's fair to say, presents an ideal more akin to paper, scissors, stone, tree, bird, apple and bucket.
This is a little worrisome, if only because I worry (despite my previous comment) about how well the AI will deal with a more complex rock-paper-scissors system. It makes me think of MTW and how the AI couldn't handle hybrid (melee/archer) units very well. Hopefully the AI will be up to the task.



In total there are 12 playable factions at launch
:thumbsup:

No word yet on whether the other factions will be unlockable (although what I've read so far gives me the impression that they won't unless you mod/edit them). Still, I'm at least glad to see the number of playable factions seems to be 12 now instead of just 10. :yes:



More exciting is the extensive streamlining done to cut-down micro-management and enormously time-consuming turns. So, tax and trade are handled by a tab and split into theatres (Europe, Indies, Americas), as is diplomacy.
Mock me if you will, but I geek out over stuff like UI streamlining. To be able to handle everything from a couple of tabs sounds delicious! :beam:


Here's another issue of concern to many:

And, surprisingly, the minimum system requirements will be fairly low; a decent machine from two years ago should do the trick. And the engine is scalable for those that can handle the extra effects.
So at least I know my own PC should be able to run ETW without any problems. ~;p Also, a big kudos to CA for creating the engine so that it can scale to beefier rigs. :2thumbsup:

[Monk]

there will be a choice of joining either the loyalists or the revolutionaries

Oh happy day! I've missed civil wars so very much since the MTW days, and I will indeed love the option of choosing sides, just as everyone else in the empire will be doing! That's a great step in the right direction CA! :2thumbsup:


The combined result is an AI that feels eerily human, and one that sparks battles with the element of surprise and unpredictability.

I will have to remain the cynic that I always am, but I am allowing (in special marked areas) allowing my black heart to hold candle light vigils in the hope that this is indeed true. Please, let this AI kick my :daisy: !


This is a little worrisome, if only because I worry (despite my previous comment) about how well the AI will deal with a more complex rock-paper-scissors system. It makes me think of MTW and how the AI couldn't handle hybrid (melee/archer) units very well. Hopefully the AI will be up to the task.

Agreed, whenever you make changes to the tried and true formula you have you have an AI who can understand the changes and take advantage of them. With any luck the AI's unit recognition is spot on with other parts of its development.


And, surprisingly, the minimum system requirements will be fairly low; a decent machine from two years ago should do the trick. And the engine is scalable for those that can handle the extra effects.

With all respect to CA, i'll believe it when I see it. :beam:

[Zenicetus]

Well, it will be a major leap in strategy game AI if the description is accurate. Feints by the AI? I'd love it! I'll believe it when I see it. But what the heck are they talking about here?:


Flotillas must be varied and made of fast and small as well as big and large ships, just as an army needs varied troops on the ground.

That's not how classic battles were fought in the days of sailing ships. It sounds like they're trying to mimic cavalry flanking tactics from land battles or something. You cannot fight like that at sea, due to very restricted sailing angles caused by the wind direction. Unless they're allowing "sailing" directly into the wind (please, please, don't do this).

If a fleet was mixed between large and small ships, it was only due to limitations of logistics or economics. It wasn't an intentional mix for tactical purposes. That's just nuts. Every admiral would much rather have ships of the line in battle. It may not be as "fun" as mimicing land battles with flanking and skirmishing by smaller/faster ships, but the fact is that battles were won by big warships with the heaviest firepower (not to mention capacity for the largest complement of marines in case of boarding).

From Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_the_line):


A ship-of-the-line was a type of naval warship constructed from the 17th century through the mid-19th century, to take part in the the naval tactic known as the line of battle, in which two columns of opposing warships would manoeuvre to bring the greatest weight of broadside guns to bear. Since these engagements were almost invariably won by the heaviest ships carrying the most powerful guns, the natural progression was to build sailing vessels that were the largest and most powerful of their time.


So, what is the CA dev team (or their marketing department) talking about here? Will naval combat in Empire be an arcade game? Or will it be at least semi-historical like the land combat?
:captain:

[rajpoot]

Perhaps Empire will finally gift the Total War series with an online campaign map mode. We certainly hope so. If it does, then there is so much both at first glance and second that Empire may do what no other in the series has: earn 10/10.

Caught my eye this did.............10/10??!! I'll give it 20/10!! It's going to break all sales records there are, if this turns out to be real!

[Monk]

Caught my eye this did.............10/10??!! I'll give it 20/10!! It's going to break all sales records there are, if this turns out to be real!

It is just speculation on Eurogamer's part. Reading the article I didn't see any mention of that aside from the end where they started to guess about the new MP modes that CA hasn't announced. Would it be fun? Sure. But Hotseats are fun too so if those stay in then I could live with no MP campaign. :beam:

[Sheogorath]

Caught my eye this did.............10/10??!! I'll give it 20/10!! It's going to break all sales records there are, if this turns out to be real!

That last bit is key.
Spore, anybody? :P

[Jack Lusted]

Agreed, whenever you make changes to the tried and true formula you have you have an AI who can understand the changes and take advantage of them. With any luck the AI's unit recognition is spot on with other parts of its development.

The AI has been coded for Empire with a lot of knowledge about how each unit type should be used(we also have a lot more unit types defined in the code instead of the old cavalry, infantry, spearmen, missiles) so it will know to use lancers differently compared to heavy cavalry for instance.


If a fleet was mixed between large and small ships, it was only due to limitations of logistics or economics. It wasn't an intentional mix for tactical purposes. That's just nuts. Every admiral would much rather have ships of the line in battle. It may not be as "fun" as mimicing land battles with flanking and skirmishing by smaller/faster ships, but the fact is that battles were won by big warships with the heaviest firepower (not to mention capacity for the largest complement of marines in case of boarding).

I think you're rather forgetting Nelsons famous quote on the matter of frigates:

"Was I to die at this moment, want of frigates would be found stamped on my heart"

Of course in a stand up fight they're no match for ships of the line, but there is a good reason to have frigates in your fleet in Empire, and it's for similar reasons for why they were wanted in real life.

[Matt_Lane]

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[Matt_Lane]

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[Matt_Lane]

Every admiral would much rather have ships of the line in battle. It may not be as "fun" as mimicing land battles with flanking and skirmishing by smaller/faster ships, but the fact is that battles were won by big warships with the heaviest firepower (not to mention capacity for the largest complement of marines in case of boarding).

I agree that the largest, heaviest fire power ships are best when fighting line to line however frigates were an important part of an Admirals fleet. They supported the ships of the line in much the same way that light cavalry sported infantry in the age of the musket. They would have been the eyes of the fleet scouting ahead and getting out of danger quickly. They would have acted as close in pickets, shielding the main battle fleet and a 'chain' of frigates could carry information from scouts our outposts back to the flag ship.

The other main use for frigates was to project power into far flung oceans (as per Master & Commander) where the admiralty would not want to risk an expensive ship of the line. The war of 1812 between Britain and America was conducted at sea mainly by frigates.

I can therefore see that the majority of naval actions, blockades, defending and attacking trade routes and coastal raiding will be undertaken by frigates, leaving the ships of the line to slug it out in set piece battles.

[Zenicetus]

I can therefore see that the majority of naval actions, blockades, defending and attacking trade routes and coastal raiding will be undertaken by frigates, leaving the ships of the line to slug it out in set piece battles.

I don't have a problem with that, unless chasing "pirates" becomes the kind of strategically meaningless busy work it was in RTW and M2TW. I think most of us would prefer a larger percentage of major, set piece battles on both sea and land.

What I have a problem with, is this:


Flotillas must be varied and made of fast and small as well as big and large ships, just as an army needs varied troops on the ground.

Maybe the use of the word "must" there is just advertising hyperbole. If not, do we really want smaller/faster ships to be a requirement in the fleet, to the extent that major battles can't be won with just the heavies?

Also I'm worried about the assumption that smaller = faster. A smaller ship with something like a lateen rig might point further into the wind than a square rigger, but nothing will outrun a ship of the line with the wind at her back. Larger = faster with some rigs, and some points of sail. There is also a relation of maximum speed to hull length for displacement hulls, although I'm not certain how much this was a factor with beamy, heavy ships of the line. Basically, the longer a hull is, the faster you can push it before it tries to climb up over the bow wave and plane.

Heck, just read the first book in O'Brian's Aubrey-Maturin series, where Aubrey gets command of the sloop-of-war HMS Sophie. He's constantly having to deal with the fact that bigger ships, with more sail area, can outrun and out-maneuver him. Of course the fun of the series is in reading about the challenges of fighting against the odds, and that should be available in the Empire game too... but on the same level of realism. I just hope the game doesn't adopt some silly arcade conventions like sailing directly against the wind, or the equation that smaller always equals faster and more maneuverable. Because it just won't feel like sailing ship combat. Not to me, anyway.

I'm sure they'll make it look real pretty though... and maybe that's all they have to do to make a profit.

[Monk]

The AI has been coded for Empire with a lot of knowledge about how each unit type should be used(we also have a lot more unit types defined in the code instead of the old cavalry, infantry, spearmen, missiles) so it will know to use lancers differently compared to heavy cavalry for instance.

Wow thanks for the response Lusted, that's great news indeed!

Honestly the more I hear the more excited I get. :2thumbsup:

[hellenes]

Link (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=242108)




No word yet on whether the other factions will be unlockable (although what I've read so far gives me the impression that they won't unless you mod/edit them). Still, I'm at least glad to see the number of playable factions seems to be 12 now instead of just 10. :yes:





Dont worry even if there were 0 playable factions and all of them were editable I wouldnt care....

[Matt_Lane]

nothing will outrun a ship of the line with the wind at her back. Larger = faster with some rigs, and some points of sail. There is also a relation of maximum speed to hull length for displacement hulls, although I'm not certain how much this was a factor with beamy, heavy ships of the line. Basically, the longer a hull is, the faster you can push it before it tries to climb up over the bow wave and plane.

The ships of the line were large wide gun platforms that could take punishment but were slow and unmaneuverable. Speed required a long and narrow hull with plenty of sail such as that of the frigate or schooner.

If all of the games naval battles are in blue water then I can see first rates ruling supreme. If however we can fight in the Great Lakes or coastal waters where maneuverability is more important then smaller ships will also have a place in the line.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Well, fleets were supposed to have an intercept rating that enable them to engage nearby fleets, IIRC.

I assume that frigates increase the likelihood of a successful intercept whereas a fleet with only SOL runs the risk of enemies running in their zone of control ganking merchantmen undetected. It's no good having big guns if you can't find the enemy.

[hoom]

Even commands are streamlined so that orders are issued and then moves made, and thus speeding up turn time.This seems to be saying that on the turn, you make 'move here' commands but the units only move when you click the End Turn button? I think that would be a good improvement.
The whole 'move instantly' bit is kind of annoying.
Also this may allow for a bit of strategic maneuvre/counter-maneuvre gameplay which is currently mostly impossible.

[Martok]

This seems to be saying that on the turn, you make 'move here' commands but the units only move when you click the End Turn button? I think that would be a good improvement.

Yeah, that's how I read it too. I agree that's a better setup than in RTW/M2TW -- I never did like that armies and fleets moved instantly.



Also this may allow for a bit of strategic maneuvre/counter-maneuvre gameplay which is currently mostly impossible.
Exactly. It could also lead to some interesting (and semi-humorous) situations; i.e., two enemy armies/fleets move towards each other, only to find next turn that they've passed each other and are now both in the other's rear.

[Intrepid Sidekick]

Elmar and a few othjers are getting the point.

Smaller ships have more use than just duking it out on the battlefield (? Battlewater? Battleocean? Sea of battle? Contested seas?).

They enable you to "see" further and react to movements across a greater area of ocean.

God help a sloop that gets caught in a 1st rate's broadside though.:oops::skull:

[CBR]

Hmm. That movement system does open up for a proper MP campaign...


CBR

[Sol Invictus]

Thanks for the info Intrepid Sidekick. So it sounds like Frigates will be used as they were historicly; the eyes and ears of the fleet. I wonder if Frigates have the chance to run a blockade?

[Rhyfelwyr]

We were told Empire would be the "most moddable" instalment in the series when we asked if there would be a toolset shipped with the game, and there would be "more modes of [online] play" than ever before - some inspired by fans, others to attract newcomers.

Anyone else interested in that modding point?

A campaign map editor will do nicely. :clown:

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I was disheartened by the modding comment. It's closer to a "no" than a "yes" answer for the question.