Things you learned from playing vanilla RTW

[Majd il-Romani]

I learned that the Gauls, Ibeians, Germans, and Britons were all unified states
I learned that no matter what nation, Rome is the most important city in the world and must be taken to "win"
I learned that Egypt kicked out the Greek rulers the second they took over

[Ravenic]

Even more tellingly I found out that in 270 BC the Romans were deeply divided into three different mini-empires led by one of three ruling families who lived in fear of the Senate and their invincible armies.

What was an even bigger revelation however was that the Parthians fought in pink pajamas.

[Dumbass]

lol, nice thread.
I learnt that throwing heads was actually quite a lethal business

[facupay123]

I learned that all mercenaries no matter if they were from Egypt or from Gaul wore green clothes and that most of the Seleucid empire had been taken by the Parthians in 270 but the Parthians could not control those conquered lands becaise they were too far away from Rome.

Also I learned that 68 berserkers could kill 1500 enemys and that the Britons had a colony in Gaul.

[Terraforce]

I learned that all Calvary are gods.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Weeeelll, I have learned that all of the Egyptians were touched by King Midas.
I have learned that the Japanese were not the ones who invented ninjas.
I have learned that the Gladiators were actually the front-line soldiers and the true legionaries of Rome.
I have learned that chariot riding Amazons and huge elephants resided in modern-day Russia, my homeland.
I have learned that the Roman Empire was forged in 50 years.
I have learned that all soldiers in the Ancient World were cowards who routed in seconds
I have learned that cavalry was more important and stronger in the Roman Army than the infantry.
I have learned that the police and fire-fighting force of the city of Rome was the most elite and the best unit in the whole wide world.
I have learned that the tiny weaklings called Seleucids invented the legionaries and lorica segmentata way before the Romans even came up with their Marian units.
I have learned that the Goths appeared in Germania even before Rome conquered the Gauls and that the Germans had phalanxes wielding sarissas just like the Makedonians, who by the way stole the Spartan mascot.

[Zeibek]

I learnt that the Germans and Celts fought without shirts even during the winter.

Aemilius Paulus: "I have learned that the Germans had phalanxes wielding sarissas just like the Makedonians, who by the way stole the Spartan mascot."

I think that there's actually some historical fact behind that; even EB has got a Germanic pike unit.

[Hax]

I learnt that the Germans and Celts fought without shirts even during the winter.

Gaesatae.

[Zeibek]

Gaesatae.

Hmm... Good point.

I learnt that the Romans used burning pigs in the heat of battle to scare elephants and that war dogs were a common sight on the battlefield.

[Dumbass]

Hmm... Good point.

I learnt that the Romans used burning pigs in the heat of battle to scare elephants and that war dogs were a common sight on the battlefield.

Burning pigs could have been used historically - it was mentioned on QI, any accuracy behind this?

[Aemilius Paulus]

Burning pigs were actually a common sight in elephant battles. Wardogs were used as well, although rarely, and definitely not to the extent that they were trained by the AI in RTW.

As for the German pikeman unit, they were reasonably dissimilar in comparison to the Makedonian phalanx. That is probably one reason why they do not have the option to form a phalanx in EB. I always thought that the German pikemen were underrated in EB though. Their pikes are very weak because any unit can get through them, which is definitely not the same with the seemingly impenetrable Hellenic pike phalanx.

As for the bare chest, that was pretty common with the barbarian tribes. It was a sign of bravery that was used not only limited by the Gaesatae and Uirodusios. Just look at the Celtic and Germanic units in EB - most of them are bare-chested.

[gamegeek2]

- I learned that the Scythians were a major power in 270 BC, and that the Alans were subjugated by them.
- I learned that Iberians fought naked or with bull horns on their helmets.
- I learned that the Germanic tribes spoke Modern german.
- I learned that Celts gave their towns Latin names.

[Skandinav]

We do not know anything about the phalanx of the germanic peoples other than it is described by Caesar when he was in Alsace fighting Ariovistus as "their ( the germanic tribes ) usual phalanx", which sounds as if it was widely used and could be interpreted as if they had a style of their own, but it must have shared a lot of characteristics with the hellenistic phalanx for him to label without further ado.

[Aemilius Paulus]

We all know that Rome: Total War was an inaccurate game, but guys, you have to admit it was pretty awesome. No other game could compare with it when it was released. The sheer awesomeness of RTW made EB possible, which had then taken the title of the best computer game from RTW. I still have many good memories left from my RTW days.

[Centurion Crastinus]

The good old Sith like katana wielding arcani.

[Ludens]

We do not know anything about the phalanx of the germanic peoples other than it is described by Caesar when he was in Alsace fighting Ariovistus as "their ( the germanic tribes ) usual phalanx", which sounds as if it was widely used and could be interpreted as if they had a style of their own, but it must have shared a lot of characteristics with the hellenistic phalanx for him to label without further ado.

I am not sure about that, since the term phalanx could be used for any reasonably-ordered formation. The specific term for the Hellenistic pike phalanx was IIRC syntagmata, not phalanx.


We all know that Rome: Total War was an inaccurate game, but guys, you have to admit it was pretty awesome. No other game could compare with it when it was released. The sheer awesomeness of RTW made EB possible, which had then taken the title of the best computer game from RTW. I still have many good memories left from my RTW days.
:yes:

[General Appo]

I´ve learned that if the Egyptians had conquered Ireland, thousands of Nubians would immediately have moved there to be recruited as Nubian Spearmen.

I´ve learned that the Pharaonic age of Ramses II never ended in Egypt, and that the Egyptians fought in the same way as thousands of years before, albeit with ultra über killing machines known as Pharao´s Bowmen.

I´ve learned that the Roman Senate would often demand powerful generals to commit suicide, less they decide that the Senate was bad and turned against it. For some strange reason this seldom worked.

I´ve learned that Spanish warriors often worshipped the Bull and this gave them magical powers to carry a golden plate between the horns of their helmet without the plate actually touching the horns.

I´ve learned that Naked Fanatics weren´t actually naked. And not really all that fanatic either.

I´ve learned that there was only 1 Consul, 1 Praetor, 1 Aedile, 1 Censor and 1 Quaestor in Rome.

[Hax]

I´ve learned that if the Egyptians had conquered Ireland, thousands of Nubians would immediately have moved there to be recruited as Nubian Spearmen.

Really? I just thought they magically moved the weather with them...funny.

[Zeibek]

Burning pigs could have been used historically - it was mentioned on QI, any accuracy behind this?

IIRC it was just at the siege of Megara that that was used, nowhere else, and certainly not by the Romans.

[Aemilius Paulus]

IIRC it was just at the siege of Megara that that was used, nowhere else, and certainly not by the Romans.

Pigs were a common weapon against elephants, and some were probably smart enough to guess that if you combine the elephant's biggest fears: smell of pigs, squeal of pigs and fire (fear that all animal share) yo will get better results. Even if the ancient generals weren't that smart, you, acting as the player, could change the history a bit. After all, aren't the Total War games all about creating alternative history? (however not in the sense of Arcani and gladiators, which were grossly inaccurate)

[Skandinav]

I am not sure about that, since the term phalanx could be used for any reasonably-ordered formation. The specific term for the Hellenistic pike phalanx was IIRC syntagmata, not phalanx.

True, it is only a phalanx-like body of soldiers in close formation that is described and not the hellenistic phalanx specifically but the characteristics I referred to was rather their long pikes and shield-wall together with this, both of which of course weren´t a rare sight on the ancient battle-field in this regard. But Caesar only uses the word twice or so perhaps deliberately meaning that it differed somehow from the other formations used by the celtic and germanic tribes, which are mostly described only as hosts and such, but some of which may have similarly been in tight formation and also, as we know it as a common weapon in those parts, used spears which often prompts a tight formation but without Caesar dubbing them the latin form of the greek word aswell, if that is, these two accounts are not the only occasions where he faced men using this tactic.

[Zeibek]

Pigs were a common weapon against elephants, and some were probably smart enough to guess that if you combine the elephant's biggest fears: smell of pigs, squeal of pigs and fire (fear that all animal share) yo will get better results. Even if the ancient generals weren't that smart, you, acting as the player, could change the history a bit. After all, aren't the Total War games all about creating alternative history? (however not in the sense of Arcani and gladiators, which were grossly inaccurate)

Umm... like I said they never were common. Possible maybe but not common, and possible does not equate to historically accurate. By that logic the gladiators would be just as historic!

If pigs (specifially burning ones) were so useful, why weren't they used all the time? Burning ones were used AFAIK only at Megara, normal ones used to frighten Pyrhus' elephants but they didn't really do the trick and readapted infantry formations were the key factor, not the use of pigs like some classical writers would have it.

Anyway, point is: all of the things I mentioned referred to the fact that they seemed very commonplace even though they were merely historical anomalies. Not all of the Celts and Germans fought bareshirt like in vanilla, where all but the few elites wore only trousers.


We all know that Rome: Total War was an inaccurate game, but guys, you have to admit it was pretty awesome. No other game could compare with it when it was released. The sheer awesomeness of RTW made EB possible, which had then taken the title of the best computer game from RTW. I still have many good memories left from my RTW days.

And here I totally agree with you. RTW for me was the best game ever until I discovered EB.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Umm... like I said they never were common. Possible maybe but not common, and possible does not equate to historically accurate. By that logic the gladiators would be just as historic!


To set the pigs on fire instead of just using them as they were would be a minor change. To introduce an entirely new unit, especially one as unreliable as gladiators would be a major change. Pigs were already used. Gladiators weren't and for excellent reasons. They were slaves, criminals, and prisoners of war. They would turn against their roman overlords as soon as they got the chance and they have already been know for rebelling. They had little discipline and had no place in a legion. They also usually spoke various different languages, making commanding more difficult. As you can see, introducing them would not be feasible or historic.

[Apgad]

I learnt that the Spartans actually fought wearing red nighties and golden flower pots on their heads.
I learnt that German women can get their men to fight harder by screeching at them. This worked just as well in ancient times as it does now...

[Aemilius Paulus]

I learnt that the Spartans actually fought wearing red nighties and golden flower pots on their heads.
I learnt that German women can get their men to fight harder by screeching at them. This worked just as well in ancient times as it does now...

The red nighties are pretty inaccurate (the Spartans wore red capes and armour), but the Spartan helmets are the same in EB as they are in RTW.

The screeching women are actually somewhat accurate, since the women actually followed the Germanic warriors both during the campaign and battles. The women would stay right behind the men in a battle, and whenever the men would rout or retreat, the women would taunt them, usually succeeding in rallying the men. I am not so sure if the women actually "screeched" or taunted/encouraged during the other parts of the battle though. Chances are they did, at least once in a while. Acting as CA, it would be more accurate to give the screeching women a version of the "Rally" ability.

Despite this, turning the Germanic women into a Total War unit is taking it pretty far, although not necessarily ahistorical.

[General Appo]

Well, you gotta admit that turning them all into hot french maids with meat clevers might have been taking it a step to far.

[Valion]

I learned that being hit by a fire arrow burns you to the point you'r charcoal
I learned that the all mercenaries in the ancient world had a color coded uniform of green>.>
I learned that biological warfare was already used in ancient times.
I learned that Gaul once conquered the whole medeterranian o.O

[Mediolanicus]

1. I learned that biological warfare was already used in ancient times.
2. I learned that Gaul once conquered the whole medeterranian o.O

1. In the book Persian Fire by Tom Holland, the writer talks about a treaty between two city states in which they promise not to poison each other's water supplies (I'd have to take a look to get the details).
Anyway, biological warfare did exist in ancient times!
Albeit not with spies spreading the black death...

2. Well, that's the point of RTW, isn't it? Imean, what do you want to accomplish when you play the Aedui or Arverni in EB?

[Connacht]

I learnt that any general in the ancient world was a ultra-dumb asshole unable to perform just a little skilled tactical movement (that's the reason for I think that RTW is a lot overrated, too stupid AI).
I learnt that the Carthaginians spoke like stereotypal Arabs.
I learnt that eastern factions like Parthians or Pontus were sons of the desert and praised it like stereotypal beduins - although they still could gather thousands and thousands of footmen in the sands.
I learnt that beduins were very common mercenaries.
I learnt that in today's Poland there was a German settlement named "home sweet home" in Latin. XD
I learnt that any hoplite was in a Macedonian phalanx.
I learnt that even if wearing not so martial clothes, the Spartans were so cool, but so cool, that they could face the mighty of any huge enemy army and still exit victorious from the battle with few casualties, high morale and without fatigue.
I learnt that Cretan archers garrisoning the island before the Roman conquest were skilled as samurai in handling their swords.
I learnt that the Mediterranean sea was full of invincible pirates that forced the naval powers of the time (Carthage, Rome, Greeks) to take a lot of kicks in their asses from them, even with many triremes against a little boat.
I learnt that the Iberians were skilled shipcraftsmen.
I learnt that the Romans were so advanced, but so advanced, that the other people felt the need to copy their soldiers even before they actually become available to the Romans themselves.
I learnt that in every battle is necessary to say that the Roman gods are watching and blah blah blah.
I learnt that Germania was a Nubian colony and Nubia a German colony.
I learnt that ancient kingdoms, even if incredibly small and surrounded by overwhelming ultra-powerful empires, were costantly in full suicidal war, until everybody but one will die ("There can be only one").

Now let's talk about Barbarian Invasions:

I learnt that the Franks had their Paladins even in the V century. Now I want a Charlemagne unit!
I learnt that the Orthodox church existed centuries before the schism.
I learnt that Spain was already fool *ehm* full of Moors.
I learnt that the Huns invaded central Europe and Italy before the V century.
I learnt that the Sarmatians that with the figure of Artorius Cassus inspired the legend of king Arthur and above all the movie King Arthur were really the bulk of Roman and especially Romano-British armies!
I learnt that the Germans called themselves with Latin or English names depending on how they woke up that morning.
I learnt that Berbers were already Muslims.
I learnt that Slavs invaded Europe just a little after the Huns and the Germans.
I learnt that German settlements were called in honour of Roman tribunes, or perhaps resembling today's English word "tribe" in a sort of Latinorum.
I learnt that Goths and Vandal were Mongolic nomads.

[Recoil]

well i learned that

-gaul was always unified
-iberian infantry<roman hastati (hold on, somethin ain't right)
-spanish navy. nuff said
-nobody travelled further east than the caspian sea and the seleukids covered so little land the game designers decided to kill em off

[Zeibek]

From BI I learnt that the Sarmatians employed a huge number of female virgins in their army.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Mmmm... Virgins.. :2thumbsup:

:clown:

[ludwag]

It looks like you dont like vanilla rome. Not in this thread only, but everywhere. I really looks like you all really hate it. Yes i know it is very bad historicaly, but remember it is just a game. And it is good someone make a mod like this. But it is the best game in the world, i think. Even if it is very much historicly inaccurate. I really bellieved that gaul was a unified country, and so was germania and all others. I believed that for long time, but i found out, and got very intrested in history. You act like you hate it, but dont forget that noone else would make a game like that.

[Ibrahim]

I learnt that the Carthaginians spoke like stereotypal Arabs

@Connacht: no they don't. they sound like those B-movie actors trying to imitate stareotypical Arabs speaking english:laugh4:

I agree with Ludwag: its just a game. but whose to say we can't pick on it? I even have a series of diatribes against every mod I have:shame:

no I won't read them.

[Eduorius]

I learned a lot of stuff from Rome Total War and was very important for me to get interested in military history.

I learned stuff like:
- There was a King named Pyrrhus that tryed to invade Italy before Hannibal.
- That Parthians used armored cavalry before the Medieval timeframe.
- I learned there was a hairstyle known as the Swebian knot.


Rome Total War and all the Total War series are excellent games because they teach you more about history than most documentaries. For example, you at least know that there were units known as Hastati, Principes, and Triarii and not only Hollywood legionaries. If it would be for some documentaries, I would believe that Hannibal fought Lorica Segmentata legionaries.

[Aemilius Paulus]

I learned a lot of stuff from Rome Total War and was very important for me to get interested in military history.

I learned stuff like:
- There was a King named Pyrrhus that tryed to invade Italy before Hannibal.
- That Parthians used armored cavalry before the Medieval timeframe.
- I learned there was a hairstyle known as the Swebian knot.


Rome Total War and all the Total War series are excellent games because they teach you more about history than most documentaries. For example, you at least know that there were units known as Hastati, Principes, and Triarii and not only Hollywood legionaries. If it would be for some documentaries, I would believe that Hannibal fought Lorica Segmentata legionaries.

Yeah, despite the fact that RTW had *numerous* historical inaccuracies, it still taught people some stuff. A lot of stuff, if you consider some people's level of history proficiency. It is simply horrifying. Quite a bit of people have virtually no idea what happened 100 years ago. Especially considering the kind of people I met here, in America. It seems that no one around here knows any history, or geography for that matter.

Is this normal for European countries? Kids in Russia seemed much smarter. Europe is better than US in geography, but then any country is. What about history though? How much better are Europeans in history? I have traveled to almost very European country, but it is very difficult to tell how smart the people are in a certain country just after spending week in there. BTW, according to the stuff I read in the Economist as well as Time magazines, British students were just as bad as the American ones. Continental Europe was much better and Asian countries such as China, Japan and South Korea were the best, of course.

[Eduorius]

I am from Latin America is very few what is teached about ancient history or any history at all. Mostly is about the discover of America and their independence from Spain.

[General Appo]

I learned a lot of stuff from Rome Total War and was very important for me to get interested in military history.

I learned stuff like:
- There was a King named Pyrrhus that tryed to invade Italy before Hannibal.





Ummm... Pyrrhus wasn´t in RTW Vanilla, right?

But yeah, RTW really helped me get interested in ancient history.

[Recoil]

Is this normal for European countries? Kids in Russia seemed much smarter. Europe is better than US in geography, but then any country is. What about history though? How much better are Europeans in history? I have traveled to almost very European country, but it is very difficult to tell how smart the people are in a certain country just after spending week in there. BTW, according to the stuff I read in the Economist as well as Time magazines, British students were just as bad as the American ones. Continental Europe was much better and Asian countries such as China, Japan and South Korea were the best, of course.

People here in the UK just seem to be getting dumber. One example is that 3/4 of the students in my year have no idea where Austria is ("your family are from where?") and another example is that, on finding out that one of my friends was Polish someone asked if he could speak "Poland." :skull:

[General Appo]

Let´s just say that were I to ask anyone in my class who Hannibal was they´d think I was talking about the cannibal. One or two might after a while realise that there is someone else known as Hannibal, but it´s doubtful.

I´d say Julius Ceasar is the only Roman who´s name most would recognise, unless they´ve just watched Gladiator, in which case they might recognise at most 2 or 3 more names.
The Seleukids, Parthians, Ptolemy´s, Carthaginians... all totally unheard of. Alexander the Great is only known as "that gay guy who conquered a lot of shit", and knowledge about ancient Gaul, Germania or Britain is completely unexistant.
Well, some might recognise that Asterix and Obelix were Gauls and lived in France, but that´s about it.

[gamegeek2]

Yeah, ur right. I found this game because I was interested in military history, found a peer, and showed me the Total War series. I got rome, thought it was awesome, and then thought, "y'know, those lances are too short," etc. When I saw a YouTube video made with EB, I went around for an hour trying to find the mod, and found it. And I'm glad as hell that I did.

[Eduorius]

Ummm... Pyrrhus wasn´t in RTW Vanilla, right?

But yeah, RTW really helped me get interested in ancient history.

He was in the Historical Battles section in The Battle of Ausculum and the Siege of Sparta.

[bobbin]

I learned the only form of population control was revolt followed by massacre.
I learned that all the people in a nation wore the same coloured clothes.
I learned that all romans were in fact very bad american voice actors.
I learned that walls, farms and granaries are indestructable.

[Maksimus]

I learned how to finish my campaign in 10 turns :yes:

[Moosemanmoo]

I learnt that the average 18 year old would die of old age whilst marching from Germany to Italy
I also learnt spring and autumn are modern inventions

[Majd il-Romani]

I learned that the RTW team got their inspiration for Egypt from the Mummy Returns
I learned that, so long as you have conquered a province, in 5 seconds people from your homeland will be there waiting to be trained.
I learned that the Roman generals had a modern sense of humor.
I learned that all of the Greek City-states were united, even in Syracuse.
I learned that, by 242 BC (or whenever the game starts) Parthia is already at its full extent
I learned that, when Alexander the Great died, the Seleucids got all of the crappy weapons, armor, and units, Egypt was practically untouched from the days of Ramesses II, and Macedon started worshipping Sparta

[Narhon]

Lorica segmentata
http://www.imperivm.org/img/articulos/027_lorica-segmentata_001.jpg

[Hax]

I learned that the world was flat 2000 years ago.

[Mithridates VI Eupator]

Let´s just say that were I to ask anyone in my class who Hannibal was they´d think I was talking about the cannibal. One or two might after a while realise that there is someone else known as Hannibal, but it´s doubtful.

I´d say Julius Ceasar is the only Roman who´s name most would recognise, unless they´ve just watched Gladiator, in which case they might recognise at most 2 or 3 more names.
The Seleukids, Parthians, Ptolemy´s, Carthaginians... all totally unheard of. Alexander the Great is only known as "that gay guy who conquered a lot of shit", and knowledge about ancient Gaul, Germania or Britain is completely unexistant.
Well, some might recognise that Asterix and Obelix were Gauls and lived in France, but that´s about it.

Thats just so on the spot!!!

Sometimes, you marvel at the historical ignorance of some people...

Having been passionately facinated by ancient history for more than a decade, I always assumed that people knew, at least to some extent, who Hannibal or Attila was. So when in High School, upon discussing ancient Rome, I made a reference to the former's crossing of the alps, people basicly asked in which of the movies that was...

Or when, upon discussing the death of king Charles XII, (Swedish king, killed at Halden, Norway, in 1718, alledgedly shot with a uniform's button by a friendly soldier), someone asked why they didn't use a DNA-swab to expose the murderer...:dizzy2:

Really, I think its sad that some people so completely lack knowledge of large parts of the history of the world, as this, in many ways, still influence the world today.

[Zradha Pahlavan]

I learned that parthians loved the color purple.
And that when a group of horsemen charged a group of spearmen, many spearmen go flying across the battlefield.
I also learned that flaming missiles launched from primitive catapults could make walls explode.

History is amazing, isn't it?

I'll willing to bet you guys money that you can't find a person [who isn't on this forum and who isn't a historian or archaeologist] who knows who Ashurbanipal was.

[Mithridates VI Eupator]

Assurbanipal: Neo-Assyrian king, ca. 668-626 b.C.
He finished the conquest of Egypt, and reinforced the empire's eastern borders, conquering the Elamites in 639, marking Assyrias greatest extent.
During his reign, culture flourished in Assyria, one example of which is that he had many Babylonian inscriptions copied, and brought to Nineveh, where they were made into the city's library. The capital also housed Assurbanipal's palace. Militarily, however, the empire was in decline, primarily due to increased pressure from the emerging Median empire. Egypt was also lost, and rebellions flared up, due to Assurbanipal's opressive ruling-style. After his death in 626 b.C, the empire rapidly declined, and was conquered in 612 b.C, and Nineveh sacked, by an alliance of Nabopolassar of Babylonia and Kyaxares(sp?) of Media.

But then again, I'm a forum user... :egypt:

[Tellos Athenaios]

I'll willing to bet you guys money that you can't find a person [who isn't on this forum and who isn't a historian or archaeologist] who knows who Ashurbanipal was.

Yes. He's that other guy from AoE. :clown:

[Hax]

Ashurbanipal is in the Axis of Evil?!

/me puts on his Bush-accent

Ladies and gentlemen, we need to invade Assyria.

[Onehandstan]

I learnt that two thousand years ago all the people in France were unites, had moustaches, only wore stripy pyjama bottoms and spoke english with a british accent.

[General Appo]

Ashurbanipal is in the Axis of Evil?!

/me puts on his Bush-accent

Ladies and gentlemen, we need to invade Assyria.


You mean Mexico! Ashurbanipal sounds kinda Mexican, right? *Dick nods and grins in evil fashion from a dark corner*

[theoldbelgian]

i am new here on the forum and english is not my first language so please forgive me
well here is what i learned from playing RTW
-once the mighty seqoia growed in the forests of germany
-we belgians were once britisch ,tally ho lad
-archers in the carthaginean army were solely trained to sit on the back of elephants
-i learned that you can rout any gaul by charging it in the front with equites
-that epeiros was a piece of cake to take by the start of the game this also goes up for those guys in segesta
-that sparta conquered all of greece before the romans started messing with them
-that scythians werent nomads at all, they lived in setlements wich could have walls
-i learned that the world was a whole lot bigger then
-i learned that the seleucids where a bunch of copycats without any originality

[Majd il-Romani]

I learned that the celts in Gaul, Britain, Spain, ans well as the Germans all looked, fought, spoke, and dressed almost exactly alike, with variation only in color and flag
that (in BI) the Berbers spoke Arabic, used the star-and-crescent-moon symbol of Islam, and had Islamic names about 300 years before muhammad was born
that the Romans came up with ninjas waaaaaaaaaay before Japan did
that druids were frontline soldiers and so were priests and other religious figures
that the Greek City-States used the Macedonian-style Phalanx and so did the Germans

[penguinking]

I learned that the Seleucid Empire fielded armies of militia hoplites in 272 BC. Their archenemies, the New Kingdom of Egypt, fielded armies of chariot archers and Pharaoh's bowmen.

[theoldbelgian]

I learned that the Seleucid Empire fielded armies of militia hoplites in 272 BC. Their archenemies, the New Kingdom of Egypt, fielded armies of chariot archers and Pharaoh's bowmen.

should't that be the old kingdom?:egypt:

[Zeibek]

Having been passionately facinated by ancient history for more than a decade, I always assumed that people knew, at least to some extent, who Hannibal or Attila was. So when in High School, upon discussing ancient Rome, I made a reference to the former's crossing of the alps, people basicly asked in which of the movies that was...

I'm in High School and we just finished our first history course (out of two, the other one focusing solely on Finnish history), which astoundingly dealt with everything from the rise of civilization to the beginning of the 18th century. Anyway, most people did know that Hannibal was a military leader who crossed the Alps in order to invade Italy, but when we got to the part that he was Punic everyone besides me asked in unison what on earth that meant. It's sort of disappointing, since I'm completeing the IB diplomma program in one of the most demanding schools in the country and even here people have only a rudimentary grasp of history. I know that the IB is natural sciences oriented but still, one would assume that Carthage is something everybody has heard of.

[Andronikos]

Is this normal for European countries? Kids in Russia seemed much smarter. Europe is better than US in geography, but then any country is. What about history though? How much better are Europeans in history? I have traveled to almost very European country, but it is very difficult to tell how smart the people are in a certain country just after spending week in there. BTW, according to the stuff I read in the Economist as well as Time magazines, British students were just as bad as the American ones. Continental Europe was much better and Asian countries such as China, Japan and South Korea were the best, of course.

It is normal that people in US don't know geography. Even some newspapers or televisions haven't realised thet Czechoslovakia splited 15 years ago or that Slovakia and Slovenia are two different states. But if you ask somebody in Europe about some US states, perhaps except for California, Florida, Alaska, Texas or Hawai, he will have no idea where the others are. The same goes for US history.
Especially in post-socialistic countries schools demand encyclopedic knowledge and so people know a lot of facts. If you search results for example from some international scielnce olympiads, you will discover that most successful are countries from eastern Asia and eastern Europe. Secondary schools are on higher level here, but it's much worse with universities.

And I learned a lot from playing RTW because thnks to it I disovered EB which taught me a lot.

I have an idea: let's prepare some questions from history (like who was Pyrrhus, what do you know about Seleucid empire, how do you imagine barbarian cultures...) and make a survey among people from our countries. Every forum member who will do this will post his results and we will have some kind of global ancient history knowledge study.

[Majd il-Romani]

I have an idea: let's prepare some questions from history (like who was Pyrrhus, what do you know about Seleucid empire, how do you imagine barbarian cultures...) and make a survey among people from our countries. Every forum member who will do this will post his results and we will have some kind of global ancient history knowledge study.

OK, first question: Who is Hannibal Barca?
What is Carthage?

and on topic, I lerned that Epirus wasn't in existance, and neither was Phyrrus

[Zeibek]

I just remembered something quite amusing that took place during our history lesson. Some of my classmates had done a presentation about Indian history from about 300 BC to 200 AD. When I asked them about the Indo-Greek kingdoms they just stared at me with a mixture of total disbelief and amazement and asked me if I just made up the question.

Second question: What do you think happened to Alexander the Great's empire after he died?

And on topic:

I learned that the Scythians were the major power in the Russian steppe around 280 BC and that the Goths looked like the Huns.

[Nachtmeister]

Maybe out of line regarding the intended direction of this thread, but this is how it is -
I learned to use the Total War Engine from playing RTW. The vanilla version. And it was good.

[General Appo]

Okay, so far we´ve got:

1. Who was Hannibal Barca?
2. What is Carthage?
3. What do you think happened to Alexander the Great's empire after he died?

Now lets see if I can come up with some:

4. Who was Pyrrhus of Epirus?
5. Name one general of Alexander the Great.
6. Before the Emperors, what was the highest political position in Rome?
7. What was Baktria?
8. What is Scipio Africanus famous for? ("taking africa?" isn´t enough)
9. In what century was Rome founded?
10: In what year was Ceasar murdered?
11: What was Augustus real name? (provided they know who Augustus was)

I know that´s a lot of Roman questions, but tbh, if I were to ask my classmates who was the second king of the Seleukid empire they´d ask me what the **** the Seleukid empire is, so I pretty much have to keep the questions Roman-related to make sure there is even the slightest chance they know the answer.

[Respenus]

It is normal that people in US don't know geography. Even some newspapers or televisions haven't realised that Czechoslovakia split 15 years ago or that Slovakia and Slovenia are two different states. But if you ask somebody in Europe about some US states, perhaps except for California, Florida, Alaska, Texas or Hawaii, he will have no idea where the others are. The same goes for US history.
Especially in post-socialistic countries schools demand encyclopaedic knowledge and so people know a lot of facts. If you search results for example from some international science Olympiads, you will discover that most successful are countries from eastern Asia and eastern Europe. Secondary schools are on higher level here, but it's much worse with universities.


In the name of every Slovenian out there, I thank you. Finally, someone who knows. Since you know Czechoslovakia split, I guess you can also point on the map, where both Slovenia and Slovakia is.

It is true, that we must learn of lot of facts. Yet professors try to make classes interesting. The problem is, that our youth doesn't really care for history. Combine that with the lack of discipline (failure of both the entire social system and maybe some professors, but not all of them) and my zealousness when it comes to work and especially history, it doesn't shock when I hear stupid things coming from certain people. As someone put it, "We must learn from history, never to repeat its mistakes", yet unfortunately during the same breath I must add what a different person said, "What history has though us is that we don't learn from history".

It's quite sad.

As for universities are concerned, come back in 6 months. I start first year in a couple of days, yet it's true, that we don't hear a lot of encouraging stuff from students. Maybe it's because they believe life is all fun and no work, yet that might just be me speaking again.

[theoldbelgian]

another question: who invented the principe of the legionaire and what were the three major infantrie classes of the romans before legionaries were used
it is sadly true that schools don't pay much atention to the history between alexander and the roman empire
the only thing i learned was that alexanders empire was split in diferent parts wich were only in decline and that only the ptolemoi could get a litle hold on there teritory (propably because they were the last of the succesor states to fall)
i did learn about hastati principes triari and equites though
and of course a litle bit about cesars conquest of the belgians and their ressistance(ambiorix)

[NeoSpartan]

RTW did a few good things for me:

1. I didn't know about the Seleucid empire.
2. I didn't know about Parthia.

....that gives you an idea about my lack of knowledge of ancient history outside of Rome and Greece up to Alexander.

Once I came across EB.... well that was a college class right there fellas :book:

[Moosemanmoo]

Lorica segmentata
http://www.imperivm.org/img/articulos/027_lorica-segmentata_001.jpg

Auugghhhgh its too much! Put it away! Put it away!

[-Praetor-]

If it would be for some documentaries, I would believe that Hannibal fought Lorica Segmentata legionaries.

Amen to that.

The fact is that vainilla RTW, aside from all it`s misconception, delivered much bigger quantities of accurate info than any documentary from The History Channel available. (Bloddy cheek from self-styling with such a name. That channel depicted a series of battles using RTW engine, showing it as the paramount of historical accuracy.)

Off course that when you compare vainilla RTW with EB or with other historical mods, you get the feeling that the former disfigured history with a malevolent purpose in mind. But you have to remember that to a largely uncultured public, showing historical Gasaetae or an accurate Republican Roman Army in the vainlilla release would have been shocking or boring, respectively.

If CA would thought that by selling history books they would have made more money, they wouldn`t have released RTW.

Cheers.

PS: If you had truly wanted to learn hardcore history, you wouldn`t have invested 30 dollars in RTW and you would instead have used that money to buy a Goldsworthy book, or would have buyed a hardcover edition of Cesar`s comentario de bello gallico.

[satalexton]

i got both >_> and still have enuf to spare for spore...

[General Appo]

Upperclass twit.

[Dumbass]

Frivolous loon.

[General Appo]

Dumbass.

[Ibrahim]

Dumbass.



:now, now, no need to insult the fellow...:clown:

[Aemilius Paulus]

i got both >_> and still have enuf to spare for spore...

What the heck does this mean anyway? Don't quite see what upsets people so much. I am not very good at understanding humor either, so please excuse me if i missed out something seemingly very obvious.

[Maeran]

Well, satalexton seems to be saying that he spent his money on a copy of RTW, and a copy of Goldsworthy (which book btw?) and a copy of Gallic War and still spent money on the game Spore, which came out earlier this month.

Everyone else seems to be irritated by his wealth. Or him buying Spore.

Like satalexton, I have bought all of the above (in Goldsworthy's case, it was The Complete Roman Army). Probably like satalexton, I didn't buy them all at once. Very possibly like satalexton, I bought Goldworthy, and Civil War because of EB (I've bought a great many books because of EB- my classical library blooms). I'm not rich, but I can save up.

As for Spore. It's quite fun.

[penguinking]

As for Spore. It's quite fun.

Isn't it awesome? I built a race of dragon people. It and Oblivion are the only games I consider anywhere near EB.

:focus:
While vanilla may have included several silly fantasy units, it is way ahead of most games. While it could have been so much more historically accurate, that's not really what the game was about.

[coalition]

I learnt that the Senate Army remained the same( Princepes, Hastati), even after the Marian Reforms.

[kekailoa]

I'm sorry, but all those questions that you guys came up with I don't think ten percent of the population anywhere in the world be able to answer those.

I think more basic questions like these would be more along the lines of answerable queries.

"What is your name?"
"How old are you?"
"Do you like ice cream?"


I kid. But I'm serious, some questions are extremely specific. The first two, about Hannibal and Carthage seem decent enough, but asking about Baktria and the development of Roman military tactics would be too much for people who don't even know where Iraq is.

I'm not even being a elitist snob.

Questions maybe like this could be acceptable:

Who were the Romans?
Who was murdered by his fellow senators, uttering the famous lines "Et tu, Brutus?"
Who were the Celts? Where did they live?
Who was Hannibal, and where did he come from?
Describe Pre-Dark Ages history of the British Isles.

[HunGeneral]

I have to admit that I myeslf never heard too much about the Seleucid Empire before I bought Rome :embarassed:
And I also learned a lot from it - I hadn't known about the kind of warfare the romans had before the Marian Reforms.
I had never heard of a Ptolemaic Dynasty before (actually only the name Cleoptar seeemd fermiliar).
I had hardly heard of Phyruss before (I guess EB depicts him more accuratly but Rome also mentioned him)
I also got some insight on how ancient warfare worked - before that I couldn't even Imagine it - movies were to predetermined for me:laugh4:

It was the spark which started my interest for Ancient history - till then I was only interested about the history of the 20. century.

And a few more guestions to the people:

Who was Attila??
Name atleast two theories about his death...:juggle2: (I'm not really expectig an answer)
Who was the first Emperor of the Rome Empire?
Which Roman emperor ordered the consturction of the Wall (or boder defense) in Northern England?
(and a funny one:laugh4:: Was the Seldjuk Empire the direct heir to the Seleucid empire?:laugh4::laugh4:

[Subedei]

I learned that pigs set on fire help fighting elephants! Invaluable knowledege, that is 4 sure!

[Onehandstan]

I learnt that worshipping certain gods makes you a better fighter or improves how sharp your sword is.

[Cambyses]

There are some funny comments on this thread :laugh4:

However, I have to say, Ancient History (however important WE might think it to be) is a very intricate and specialist period that is not studied (in detail or often at all) by the vast majority of people, even those who have received an excellent education. Instead all our societies have people that study this branch of knowledge in order for it to be kept alive for the rest of us. It really is not a necessary for the average person to know what and where Bactria was for example.

I will propose some alternative questions for those above to see if really we as a forum really know so much about other periods of history as our own. Obviously looking at wiki/google etc is cheating.

1. Name three tribes/clans conquered by Shaka Zulu.
2. Where in the world are the earliest cave paintings found?
3. Who lived in Tikal and why provide one recognised theory as to why the city fell?

ANyway, Im sorry if Ive offended anyone, but really IMO its unreasonable to expect "normal" people to know a great deal about ancient history. In the same way many of us might struggle to explain even the most basic concepts of quantum physics.

Its far more important for people to understand the basics of where their own nation/civilization came from and where is stands in the world today. And Im not even going to get into the whole social history vs factual history debate.

[Olaf Blackeyes]

As for Spore. It's quite fun.

Spore=SUCK i aint taking THAT kind of customer BS for a game that aint replayable. Sims was awesome, Spore sucked donkey bawlz.
As for what i learnd from RTW it learned pretty much the same as HunGeneral.

[WonkoTheSane]

Honestly, RTW has taught me a lot, more than the history lessons in school. By playing the game I started to get interested in ancient history. I guess it's because of the huge difference of reading a text about the Battle of the Trebia and playing it yourself...

[HunGeneral]

However, I have to say, Ancient History (however important WE might think it to be) is a very intricate and specialist period that is not studied (in detail or often at all) by the vast majority of people, even those who have received an excellent education. Instead all our societies have people that study this branch of knowledge in order for it to be kept alive for the rest of us. It really is not a necessary for the average person to know what and where Bactria was for example.

I agree ont that. Most people who know alot about a certain area of knowledge mostly do because there personal interest not necesserealy the need to know or because they can use it in Real Life.:yes:


Its far more important for people to understand the basics of where their own nation/civilization came from and where is stands in the world today.

Thats true. Most peoples should know where they come from.

Every Nation expects there citizens to have some basic knowledge about there past.(usually something others wouldn't care about)

Cambyses brought some quite good exampels:



1. Name three tribes/clans conquered by Shaka Zulu.
2. Where in the world are the earliest cave paintings found?
3. Who lived in Tikal and why provide one recognised theory as to why the city fell?

(I really wonder if anyone knows the answers?)

I just remembered some myself:

1 Who did Saint Stephan (I.) "offer" his kingdom to after his son (and only heir) died in a hunting accident? - more a cultural than political effect.
2.Why do the Bells ring at noon? (If anyone can answer this please do:yes: - I'd really like to know if anyone here knows it:yes:)

[desert]

Name atleast two theories about his death::laugh4:

He banged a Goth chick too vigorously and drowned in his own blood.

Do we even need a second theory?

[Weakinator]

I learned that Berserkers existed 1000 years before the Vikings.
I learned that lines of succession were always simple and uncontested.
I learned that revolting peasants fought with nothing but small knives.
I learned that it's possible to "train" peasants, and yet after enlisted in the army they are still referred to as "peasants."
I learned that peasants always fight in a perfect circle.
I learned that a single trireme can hold an army of 2000, including 20 elephants, 160 horses, and 3 catapults.

[coalition]

Time for some Barbarian Invasion guys.

I learnt that Berbers were already Muslims even though Mohhamad (Spell?) was born 300 years after the game actually starts.
I learnt that Western Roman Empire governers sucked up 50% of the cities income.
I learnt that The Eastern Roman Empire had better copies of Cataphracts than their neighbours.
I learnt that it took only 3-6 turns to convert a city.

[coalition]

And for Alexander

I learned while garrisoning the town "Bactria", Alexander acquired the trait "Sober". I found it strange considering he was an alcoholic.

[Ibrahim]

I learned from BI vanilla that my ancestors were perfume wearing, silk cushioned pansies whose best troops can't even fight the lowest grade romans and sassanids, and had not the slightest hint of civilization (guess that's jahiliyyah):clown:. same for the amazighen*:no:

I learned that the romans in BI had crappy troops, with less armor and training of the days of Caesar.*(yeah, right-way more complex):clown:

I learned that the sassanids had exactly the same basic all cavalry cruddy infantry of the Parthians (In RTW Vanilla)*.:clown:


*I knew better.:laugh4:

this makes me wonder:

@TPC: Arabs in Sweden are telling ye that pre-Islamic north arabians (Arabs) had nothing? If so, there is a SERIOUS misunderstanding on there part:no:

[Uticensis]

1) I learned that Scipio,Scipionis was actually a second declension noun
2)I learned that the Romans had to build the Pantheon in order to learn how to construct the Covus
3)I learned that militia hoplites were so poor that they couldn't even afford shirts
4)I learned that Parthia was clearly the richest Empire at the time because all of them, even the peasants, could afford to dye all their clothes purple
5)I learned that nobody lived north of Hadrian's Wall. In fact, the only reason the Romans didn't expand north of their British provinces was because there was nothing there, it was literally the edge of the world.

[Hax]

Actually, it's where the term "Black hole" stems from.

[mikil100]

I learned that if you have two units of Praetorian units of Cavalry nothing can beat you, no matter the quality of your infantry.
I also learned that America was even more influenced by Romans than I previously thought, even our accents are similar!

[Skullheadhq]

I'm sorry, but all those questions that you guys came up with I don't think ten percent of the population anywhere in the world be able to answer those.

I think more basic questions like these would be more along the lines of answerable queries.

"What is your name?"
"How old are you?"
"Do you like ice cream?"


I kid. But I'm serious, some questions are extremely specific. The first two, about Hannibal and Carthage seem decent enough, but asking about Baktria and the development of Roman military tactics would be too much for people who don't even know where Iraq is.

I'm not even being a elitist snob.

Questions maybe like this could be acceptable:

Who were the Romans?
Who was murdered by his fellow senators, uttering the famous lines "Et tu, Brutus?"
Who were the Celts? Where did they live?
Who was Hannibal, and where did he come from?
Describe Pre-Dark Ages history of the British Isles.


If Caesar really spoke out these legendary words, It would be: Et tu Brute.
Vocative, Vocative!!

[Hax]

I always thought he said "και συ, τεκνον?"

[Wausser]

yeah some say he said it in greek....

[Ibrahim]

I always thought he said "και συ, τεκνον?"

either suetonius or Tacitus, just can't remember.:wall:

[General Appo]

I always thought he said "και συ, τεκνον?"

Actually Hax, that would be "καὶ σὺ τέκνον".
Diacritics, Diacritics!!

Which of course is far from "You too, Brutus?", more like "You too, my child?". Personally I prefer the version were Ceasar says "You too my son", not as a question, but in reference to a well-known Greek sentence "You too my son, will have a taste of power.", foreshadowing Brutus own violent (though slightly less involuntary) death.

Of course, most likely he didn´t say nothing, just like Plutarch and Suetonius reports.

[General Appo]

either suetonius or Tacitus, just can't remember.:wall:

Suetonius said that some people claimed Ceasar said "καὶ σὺ τέκνον" when he died, though Suetonius himself claims that Ceasar didn´t actually say anything at all.
IIRC, no ancient historian what so ever claims Ceasar said anything in Latin. Not sure who first used it in Latin, oldest I can find is in Richard Eedes' Latin play Caesar Interfectus, 1582, though it appears it might have been used before that.

[kekailoa]

If Caesar really spoke out these legendary words, It would be: Et tu Brute.
Vocative, Vocative!!


I apologize.

Latin has never been my strong suit. In fact, I know all my latin from this forum and EB.

That's pretty bad.

[Novellus]

I learned that:

The world is really flat

The Oliphaunt actually existed

Phalanxes settled disputes with dance-offs-- no actual fighting took place

An army of dogs led by a general could defeat an army of generals led by the AI

:idea2: