tell me about skirmishers

[ludwag]

I often use them. Mostly to take down cavalry or elphants, or for garrison. But i have never been like "oooh i got to have skirmishers! I need more skirmishers, man". I often thinks that about other units.

Skirmishers have not much ammo, and can not throw very long range. They are not as good in melee as infantry that throws javelins.

I need to know what makes them important, and what makes them a factor to gain i victory, like other kinds of units use to be, and in what kind of battles they are.

[duncan.gill]

I have found them useful for:

-garrisoning (having a stack of skirmishers following your main army allows you to take a town and stock it with cheap troops whilst your main army moves off to the next target).

-cannon fodder - sometimes you may need some troops just to receive fire/charge.

- circling around behind the the enemy battle line and throwing spears at their unprotected backs (you will often get a lot of nice casualties this way)

[Cullhwch]

Some skirmishers can make great makeshift file troops. Thracian Peltasts and Dacian Komatai carry AP falxes and can stand up against much heavier infantry or slice enemy armored units (like phalanxes and generals) to bloody chunks.

You can also press standard Greek Peltasts and Sweboz Jugunthiz into service as adequate light infantry, but you can't expect miracles from them.

All other skirmisher units are more or less garbage in melee.

[konny]

Save for Akontistai and the like, most skirmishers make good light infantry with lots of ammo and the ability to keep away from the enemy, if needed. Units like Velites or Peltastai can take on many kinds of enemies, in particular if they had been able to throw their javelins before contact. Others have spears and are able to fight off light to medium cavalry on their own.

The most devasting effect they make when getting behind the enemy on the climax of the battle to throw javelins on fighting enemies that are already shaken and tired. That might cause instant mass routes as if you have attacked with hundreds of Kataphrakts.

And yes, sometimes you know that the first unit to get in range of the enemy will suffer terrible casualties. You better have a unit of skirmishers for that job than your expensive elites.

[Valion]

I always have skirmishers with my armies some 2-4 units. I like to use them as bait and/or as cannon fodder. Also the AI always charges my skirmishers while my main army stays put and fresh while the enemy is already winded or tired from chasing my skirmishers. plus i like to use them as enemy cavalry absorbers, the AI's cavalry charges them while my own cavalry charges afterwards^_^ we must all exploit the AI's stupidity Lol.

[QuintusSertorius]

Peltastai are brilliant. Not only do they have some useful javelins that make them elephant killers, but they're fast, have good stamina and perform well as medium infantry too. They make great aggressive flankers - put them out wide and have them envelop the enemy. Often have the stamina to chase down routers after holding them for a while, too.

[bobbin]

A tactic i like to use is to send them in behind a cavalry charge. Thracian peltasts are the best for this as they'll gut anything they touch.

[TunaMaker]

I used to not give skirmishers much credit (except for the Thracian Peltasts), but have recently been using them to great effect in my Lusotannan campaign. I always have 3-4 units in my army now and use them to thin the enemy's ranks and engage the flanks or rear after the main enemy line has committed to battle. They are also effective at chasing down routers. I especially like the northern iberian skirmisher, which is surprisingly tough in melee for a lower level unit.

TM

[Outlaw Ralph]

I dont know if slingers count as skirmishers but, in my Casse campaign I disbanded all my army and boats after sending my diplomat to get trade routes. Then I waited a few years till I had about 8 or 9k in the treasury. Then I decided to make a bunch of slingers and see if I could conquer Britain.:clown: With a single full stack of slingers and my generals chariots I pacified the whole place in about ten years. They do pretty well in close combat after gaining some exp.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Yeah, I love slingers too and it is true that they do not count as skirmishers. By skirmishers ludwag meant all purely missile units who throw javelins.

[Grriffon]

I'm not a huge fan of skirmishers, but I do use them from time to time. When I have other units that also throw javelins, like Lusotannan bodyguards, javelin cavalry, etc. I like them better, because they provide that extra missile fire, and can make line troops or cannon fodder in a pinch. If I'm not using other javelin troops though, I normally prefer not to use them.

[Decimus Attius Arbiter]

In a Getai army they spread the enemy's line all over the place so drapnai, slingers, and archers can kill them. Oh yeah, they carry swords so they can join in the fun too. That skirmish mode is useful without javelins.

In a greco-roman style army they are missile fodder. They are better at this than slingers or archers who have low unit sizes and are just as unarmored. They are also cheaper per man than slingers or archers. I don't like to use them to wear down the enemy by standing around unless the enemy unit is already depleted down to the last man. Armored Peltast units are better at that. Also with Peltast as opposed to Akontistai type skirmishers I place them with the akontistai in the beginning with fire at will off just as missile shields. Then I move them to the flanks and fire javelins till those are gone. If I really need to, I'll use the akontistai to fire at the flanks and rear, but otherwise I set them to fire at will and forget about them.

I'm playing as Macedonia right now and experimenting with using only skirmishers or a mix of skirmishers and missile units. The missile units will be used solely for defending the flanks and rear.

[Carthaginian General]

I love skirmishers. Besides what's already been said here, I use them for guard mode duty. This can work to keep your main fighting force relatively intact, since they won't take much casualties from flank and rear charging a tired enemy. Skirmishers are also a very good unit to get veterancy on. Two silver chevrons with a weapon and armour upgrade will for example, turn the Thraikioi Peltastai into murder machines, as they can decimate unarmoured or lightly armoured units from range and destroy armoured units in melee much more efficiently now.

Just don't use them against heavy infantry like Triarii and you'll be fine. Although, after gaining veterancy, you'll be deadly against stuff like Triarii as well if you're firing from the rear.

[hoom]

Peltastai are represented in EB as medium infantry rather than the light skirmisher of earlier times.

I used to not use them at all, then I started using one or two to absorb enemy charges/fire & noticed that they actually wound up doing most of the fighting.
So I tried using them as line infantry & never considered them 'light' since.

Using them as cannon fodder is a terrible abuse of a flexible & quality unit.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Cheap skirmishers are brilliant - so useful when fighting enemies like the Gauls and Germans who have tons of missile armed units. And they're good garrison troops too.

[Chris_]

Whenever I'm in the area, I'll get some Mercenary Thracian Peltasts. Those guys are amazing. Javelins and Falx gives them great versatility, as mentioned by several others above. They can basically hold a line on their own.

[||Lz3||]

I don't like to flank my enemies... at least not to fill them with arrows, stones or javs...

I feel like cheating... <.< that's why I only use skirmishers for roleplay, If I were aiming for efficacy I would get 2 skirmishers units and the rest heavy infantry , but that isn't fun :P

[Ibrahim]

I prefer slingers to do the skirmishing-good range, ap, perfect for downing those pesky cavalrymen. but I use archers more often-to barage the enemy in battle. I've killed many enemy generals with a stray arrow rather than hand to hand.

[Kromulan]

It really depends on who (what faction) you're playing. . .
As Saka or Sarmatia or Parthia, foot skirmishers probably won't play much of a role (javcav either for me)
As any of the Geek factions, you need peltasts to protect your stick-wielding dolts from sword-swingers. They're the only ones who know what a proper melee weapon looks like. Also, your basic archer is so crappy you'll need lots of Akontista to soak up enemy missiles while the archers are trying to get in range.
As the Romans, they're a bit redundant. . . I use Hastati for that role. (usually)
Getai and Lusitan get such excellent skirmishers, you just can't NOT recruit them.
Dunno about the Gauls or Carthage. I haven't played them much.
As the Saba, they're pretty much all you've got. I've sent Akontista to front phalanxes because they're cheaper and more readily available than anything else I had.
Krom: "Hey, you! Go throw your sticks at those dolts over there! Then gut 'em with your knife!"
Akies: "Won't they skewer us with those huge spears?"
Krom: "You have a knife, kid! All he's got is that silly long stick. Don't worry so much."

[Aemilius Paulus]

I prefer slingers to do the skirmishing-good range, ap, perfect for downing those pesky cavalrymen. but I use archers more often-to barage the enemy in battle. I've killed many enemy generals with a stray arrow rather than hand to hand.

I love slingers too, but believe it or not, slingers actually get a -2 penalty against cavalry. That could possibly apply to archers as well, but I have yet to verify that.

What's interesting about this is that in general, horseman seem to die so much easier when under slinger fire.

[tls5669]

It really depends on who (what faction) you're playing. . .
As Saka or Sarmatia or Parthia, foot skirmishers probably won't play much of a role (javcav either for me)
As any of the Geek factions, you need peltasts to protect your stick-wielding dolts from sword-swingers. They're the only ones who know what a proper melee weapon looks like. Also, your basic archer is so crappy you'll need lots of Akontista to soak up enemy missiles while the archers are trying to get in range.
As the Romans, they're a bit redundant. . . I use Hastati for that role. (usually)
Getai and Lusitan get such excellent skirmishers, you just can't NOT recruit them.
Dunno about the Gauls or Carthage. I haven't played them much.
As the Saba, they're pretty much all you've got. I've sent Akontista to front phalanxes because they're cheaper and more readily available than anything else I had.
Krom: "Hey, you! Go throw your sticks at those dolts over there! Then gut 'em with your knife!"
Akies: "Won't they skewer us with those huge spears?"
Krom: "You have a knife, kid! All he's got is that silly long stick. Don't worry so much."

Carthage has Numidian skirmishers, theyre suppose to be one of the better skirmisher units, but theyre cannon fodder for me. In Iberia they get Iberian Skirmishers, which are a bit better and can last longer. Carthage doesnt get a Peltasti unit unless they hire mercs.

[Ibrahim]

I love slingers too, but believe it or not, slingers actually get a -2 penalty against cavalry. That could possibly apply to archers as well, but I have yet to verify that.

What's interesting about this is that in general, horseman seem to die so much easier when under slinger fire.

that's why i use them, inspite of the penalties-the ap quality more than negates the loss, hence killing them more quickly-that's for the slingers.

but you did click something in my head: just what IS the penalty of arrows vs cavalry?(if any)

[Vincent Butler]

For anybody who reads these old posts, the phalanx fell out of use because it seemed ineffective due to improper/lack of use of the peltasts. Pyrrhos (I am sure I misspelled that) was one of the last effective phalanx generals, and he still had the proper use of the skirmishers. Kind of bad, though, when a Pyrrhic victory is named after you. The main role of skirmishers was to break up enemy infantry, counter their skirmishers, or deal with chariots and elephants, hence the bonus in the game. Alexander used them to great effect against Darius's chariots at Gaugemela. I either have my skirmishers out in front of my army and pull them back when the enemy gets too close (better to do it manually than rely on skirmisher mode, I don't know how many times I have had skirmishers in skirmisher mode not pull back and get hit by enemy infantry), ditto for slingers, or I will station them behind my battle line (not the slingers unless on a hill). They work great at a bridge behind a phalanx. Skirmishers (or infantry who throw missiles) behind, archers/slingers to the sides.