Another beautiful day in hillbilly racist land...

[HoreTore]

Or is this another case of people just being "anti-immigration"?

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2681277.ece

Things like this makes me ashamed to call myself norwegian. The most disturbing thing about this IMO though, is that the bishop actually accommodated these racists. I expect better from such people.

[Koga No Goshi]

Or is this another case of people just being "anti-immigration"?

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2681277.ece

Things like this makes me ashamed to call myself norwegian. The most disturbing thing about this IMO though, is that the bishop actually accommodated these racists. I expect better from such people.

Expected better from the religious establishment? Over here we have pastors telling people how to vote and saying that people who voted for Kerry are going to hell. Religious establishment does NOT have a good record, AT ALL, of coming down on the right side of what would later be called serious historical injustices. (See: WWII, Crusades, et. al.)

[Ronin]

now...what would Jesus do?

have these racist morons been informed that their savior wasn´t white either?......

or better still...can I be there when they are told that? :D

[Fragony]

These people don't quite get it, this is ugly.

[Koga No Goshi]

now...what would Jesus do?

have these racist morons been informed that their savior wasn´t white either?......

or better still...can I be there when they are told that? :D

Lies! Everyone knows Jesus was Nordic, just look a the paintings!

[Vladimir]

Expected better from the religious establishment? Over here we have pastors telling people how to vote and saying that people who voted for Kerry are going to hell. Religious establishment does NOT have a good record, AT ALL, of coming down on the right side of what would later be called serious historical injustices. (See: WWII, Crusades, et. al.)

Read the article, dude.

That guy deserves a medal, not harassment.

[Koga No Goshi]

Read the article, dude.

That guy deserves a medal, not harassment.

You misunderstood me. What i meant was the religious establishment going along with sorta hiding this guy or not backing him up when people make racist requests. Some fringe groups aside it is not my opinion that religious establishments in general have a good track record of taking a stand on the right side of social issues, until maybe long after the fact. (Some counter examples in the U.S. would be the Quakers, opposing slavery, being consistently anti-war, etc.)

[HoreTore]

You misunderstood me. What i meant was the religious establishment going along with sorta hiding this guy or not backing him up when people make racist requests. Some fringe groups aside it is not my opinion that religious establishments in general have a good track record of taking a stand on the right side of social issues, until maybe long after the fact. (Some counter examples in the U.S. would be the Quakers, opposing slavery, being consistently anti-war, etc.)

After the 70's or so, the state church has a pretty good track record, actually.... Hence why I expect better of them ~;)

[Banquo's Ghost]

It's not just Norway where country folk can behave strangely (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/an-unusual-story-of-country-folk-940321.html) to newcomers.


In the past two weeks, Leicestershire police have been called out three times by "concerned locals" to investigate reports of a man stealing crops from six acres of fields. Each time the 42-year-old farmer had to explain that he was doing nothing more criminal than harvesting his own corn.

I won't even begin to post some of the religious and racial bigotry I've seen down here when an African priest gets to visit. :embarassed: All one can say is that things are way better than they were and this thinking is now challenged rather than mainstream.

[Koga No Goshi]

It's not just Norway where country folk can behave strangely (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/an-unusual-story-of-country-folk-940321.html) to newcomers.


In the past two weeks, Leicestershire police have been called out three times by "concerned locals" to investigate reports of a man stealing crops from six acres of fields. Each time the 42-year-old farmer had to explain that he was doing nothing more criminal than harvesting his own corn.

I won't even begin to post some of the religious and racial bigotry I've seen down here when an African priest gets to visit. :embarassed: All one can say is that things are way better than they were and this thinking is now challenged rather than mainstream.

I can relate to this story, I had neighbors call the police on me, TWICE, for climbing in my bedroom window when I locked myself out of my apartment. I lived there for six years. It's like, how could you NOT have seen me being the one always coming in and out of that apartment? Most people just have a don't know-,don't care- attitude.

[Vladimir]

You misunderstood me. What i meant was the religious establishment going along with sorta hiding this guy or not backing him up when people make racist requests. Some fringe groups aside it is not my opinion that religious establishments in general have a good track record of taking a stand on the right side of social issues, until maybe long after the fact. (Some counter examples in the U.S. would be the Quakers, opposing slavery, being consistently anti-war, etc.)

Understood, thanks for the clarification. :thumbsup:

I agree that he isn't being given the respect he deserves from his church. He's being hidden away like a child molester!

[Viking]

Things like this makes me ashamed to call myself norwegian.

Isn't the fact that people call onself just that one of the causes that this happens... ~;)

Yeah, I was a bit surprised when I first read this, I must admit.


country folk

It's easy to take a shot at a people as a whole; but one wonders, have you ever lived on the countryside? :juggle2:

I still am. :smash:

[Rhyfelwyr]

The family of the deceased should have their views respected (though it pains me to say it). It would be wrong to force them to have this Pastor attend their relatives funeral.

However, they should be told that if they wish to hold such views which are in opposition to the views of the church, then they must either leave or reconsider their position.

So ironic that this Pastor from Sierra Leone should be treated like this nowadays. A country founded by freed slaves, treated as racially inferior, trampled upon by their Christian brethren, they looked from freedom, even naming their capital 'Freetown'. :no:

Shame on this racist family, may they think clearer after this troubling time for them has passed.

[Banquo's Ghost]

It's easy to take a shot at a people as a whole; but one wonders, have you ever lived on the countryside? :juggle2:

I still am. :smash:

Not only do I live in it, I own a considerable part of it. :wink:

And I take your point, but rural racism has some special characteristics of its own, and can often be challenged less within a community than in urban settings, precisely because of the strength of community and the concurrent wariness of all strangers.

[Big_John]

you call that "hillbilly"? welcome to appalachia, my friend.

WARNING: Not Safe for Work. Contains vulgarities and "colorful" language.

http://break.com/index/redneck-woman-rails-on-obama.html

[Koga No Goshi]

The family of the deceased should have their views respected (though it pains me to say it). It would be wrong to force them to have this Pastor attend their relatives funeral.

No. It's one thing if a particular family "always went to Pastor so and so." Then of course respect the wishes if he's personally requested for a wedding or funeral, if possible. But if you just ask a church to provide a minister for a funeral, and then go "oh... but um... not THAT one please", that's wrong, and it shouldn't be respected. If I were in charge I would say "That is who we have available, he's quite competent. I'm very sorry but if he is not acceptable to you, you will have to go to another church."

He's a minister, not a damn showpiece. If they have a problem with him being black more then they have a problem with someone being dead then they're not very good Christians anyway.

[Tristuskhan]

So ironic that this Pastor from Sierra Leone should be treated like this nowadays. A country founded by freed slaves, treated as racially inferior, trampled upon by their Christian brethren, they looked from freedom, even naming their capital 'Freetown'. :no:

Hum, I guess you're talking about Liberia here.... but anyway, Sierra Leone is also a trampled place.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Hum, I guess you're talking about Liberia here.... but anyway, Sierra Leone is also a trampled place.

No I was definitely talking about Sierra Leone. When I said trampled I meant how they were treated as slaves before founding Freetown.

[Tristuskhan]

Whoops, my great mistake here, sorry man...

[Fragony]

The family of the deceased should have their views respected (though it pains me to say it). It would be wrong to force them to have this Pastor attend their relatives funeral.

However, they should be told that if they wish to hold such views which are in opposition to the views of the church, then they must either leave or reconsider their position.

So ironic that this Pastor from Sierra Leone should be treated like this nowadays. A country founded by freed slaves, treated as racially inferior, trampled upon by their Christian brethren, they looked from freedom, even naming their capital 'Freetown'. :no:

Shame on this racist family, may they think clearer after this troubling time for them has passed.

I agree to a certain degree, but the church shouldn't cater them, but they do. I have a very high tolerance for what many find disgusting but this is just vicious.

[Viking]

And I take your point, but rural racism has some special characteristics of its own, and can often be challenged less within a community than in urban settings, precisely because of the strength of community and the concurrent wariness of all strangers.

Well, yes, smaller communities does indeed tend to have these this village vs. the outer world; but where I live, adoptions are rather normal, and when you're exposed to people with different skin colour, but yet the same culture and exactly the same expectations to life, that's when racism becomes utterly meaningless.

Still, this doesn't not prevent certain thoughts to be thought when angry arabs are showed on television, rest assured. Of course, this doesn't apply just to the countryside, though.

[Koga No Goshi]

OP: Only marginally related to the original post, but I wasn't aware at all that terms like hillbilly, redneck, etc., were used outside of the U.S. very much. Is this usual, or just around international net/forum circles?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Norway still has white Christians?? ~:confused:

[Tristuskhan]

OP: Only marginally related to the original post, but I wasn't aware at all that terms like hillbilly, redneck, etc., were used outside of the U.S. very much. Is this usual, or just around international net/forum circles?

Well, it just seems relevant terms when most of your audience is from the other side of the Atlantic. Anyone with (a bit more than) basic knowledge of english understands them. Besides that, every country has it's own terms, in french it could be "ploucs", "pécores", "cul-terreux", "bouseux", and so on....

[Rhyfelwyr]

If they were complaining about having this Pastor at a wedding or baptism, I would hurl them out the church doors. But when it comes to a funeral, forcing them to accept a Pastor they are not happy with, no matter how absurd the reason, just seems wrong.

[HoreTore]

OP: Only marginally related to the original post, but I wasn't aware at all that terms like hillbilly, redneck, etc., were used outside of the U.S. very much. Is this usual, or just around international net/forum circles?

Not "redneck", but "hillbilly" is pretty much adopted here. We usually use norwegian terms of course, but we translate our terms(like "bondeknøl") into english terms like hillbilly.


Norway still has white Christians?? ~:confused:

No, he was black ~;)


Isn't the fact that people call onself just that one of the causes that this happens... ~;)

I call this guy a norwegian too ~;)

[Rhyfelwyr]

I call this guy a norwegian too ~;)

And if he was Swedish... :whip:

[Alexanderofmacedon]

So stupid. I am on the right side of the immigration spectrum, but this is no good that is a benefit to anyone. It's just simply stupid hillbilly racist as you put it. :no:

[Hosakawa Tito]

Racism is where one finds it and it's just as pernicious in the urban jungle as it is in the hills.

[PanzerJaeger]

I don't fault the church for trying to accommodate a grieving(if racist) family. A funeral is neither the time to take a social stance nor a teachable moment.

The church could have refused to switch pastors, but that isn't really their mission. Christian values dictate that you accept people as they are first, and try to show them the correct way as time progresses.

Just as society expects that a Christian church wouldn't turn an unwed mother away, it also should accept that some in the flock have backwards views towards race and realize that a funeral is not the place to try and change that. A sermon on Sunday is definitely in order, though...

[Koga No Goshi]

I don't fault the church for trying to accommodate a grieving(if racist) family. A funeral is neither the time to take a social stance nor a teachable moment.

The church could have refused to switch pastors, but that isn't really their mission. Christian values dictate that you accept people as they are first, and try to show them the correct way as time progresses.

Just as society expects that a Christian church wouldn't turn an unwed mother away, it also should accept that some in the flock have backwards views towards race and realize that a funeral is not the place to try and change that. A sermon on Sunday is definitely in order, though...

They asked for a trained minister; they got one and didn't like his skin color.

Plus, look at the other treatment this pastor has received. It doesn't sound to me like he's gone out there and tried to impose himself on others inappropriately or sought out controversy, it sounds like all of that has come to him on its own.

All in all, inexcusable behavior. It will have a negative social reaction and it deserves one, otherwise people like this are never going to change their ways. It may make them feel resentful but oh well; I'd rather them feel resentful because they're racist and unpopular than someone feel like they can't even live a normal life and do their job because of their skin color.

[HoreTore]

I don't fault the church for trying to accommodate a grieving(if racist) family. A funeral is neither the time to take a social stance nor a teachable moment.

If the grieving family doesn't want a black priest, then they are more than welcome to find some other arrangement. But doing that is not a job for the church. And fortunately, most of the church understands that.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Having spent half my life living in the country, i find that racism doesn't seem to be aimed at skin colour, the very large majority of the time. As was said earlier, if the culture and expectations of life are the same, then skin colour doesn't get looked at. You all end up good friends. It's when a culture that can be seen as 'alien' is brought into a community that racism begins. Country folk are just afraid of change, is all.

But then obviously there are communities like the one mentioned in the OP topic. This is just a case of people being vile, bigoted scum.

[KukriKhan]

I just wonder why avowed atheists, agnostics, and anti-religionists even give a hoot how or why some church somewhere does anything, or picks its clergy, or performs its rites.

OTOH, the guy's treatment outside of church bears law enforcement attention.

IMHO. :bow:

[HoreTore]

I just wonder why avowed atheists, agnostics, and anti-religionists even give a hoot how or why some church somewhere does anything, or picks its clergy, or performs its rites.

This particular church isn't just some random church, this is the state church. I don't care what the random churches are doing, but I care about what the state church is doing, because it's under state authority. Through democracy, I elect the leaders of this church.

[KukriKhan]

My bad, then. The whole concept of state churches is foreign to me. If you're paying for it, you have every right to have a say. Sorry. :bow:

[HoreTore]

My bad, then. The whole concept of state churches is foreign to me. If you're paying for it, you have every right to have a say. Sorry. :bow:

I wish it was for me too.......:wall:

Oh well, it'll be gone soon enough, the majority is against it now. Only two kinds of people still support it really; liberals who want to control the church, and xenophobes who see the church as some wall against muslim hegemony or something.

[KukriKhan]

We don't have a state-church, but we do allow exemption from taxes (http://www.irs.gov/charities/churches/index.html) for organizations defined as churches, which I believe we should do away with (not the churches, the tax-exemptions). So, we do have a kind of left-handed support of churches here, I must admit. And we (taxpayers/citizens) have no say whatever in how those places are run.

[HoreTore]

Yeah, well, I'm just talking about getting rid of the state control of the church and the higher status that church has. Here we give money to all religious groups based on the number of members(ie. x amount for each member). I'm fine with that. If only the money from those of us without any religious affiliation(like me) isn't automatically given to the state church.

[Koga No Goshi]

I just wonder why avowed atheists, agnostics, and anti-religionists even give a hoot how or why some church somewhere does anything, or picks its clergy, or performs its rites.

OTOH, the guy's treatment outside of church bears law enforcement attention.

IMHO. :bow:

Hypocrisy is always news, Kukri. ;) It really says something about people if someone is dead, a minister shows up, and your biggest problem at the moment is that he's black.

[Don Corleone]

Taxing a church is by definition double-taxation, correct?

Churches in the U.S. are completely funded by donation. If I go to work, earn some money, get half of it taxed, then give some of the half I was allowed to keep to a church, and the church gets taxed on that, how is that NOT double taxation?

If we're going to tax churches, I say we should do away with the concept of tax-exempt organizations all-together. Why should St. Francis's pay taxes on the donations it receives but a marxist one not?

[HoreTore]

Who stole my thread? :inquisitive:

:whip:

[Banquo's Ghost]

The discussion went off at a very interesting tangent so I have split the taxation discussion out into a new thread.

:bow: