Question on charging

[tls5669]

Ive been playing EB for a while now. I dont use regular cavalry much except to chase routers, HA's or missile troops. I do occasionally charge, I know how to do that, ive had plenty practice on custom battles. My question is how do you charge THROUGH units, click on them or behind them?

Like say I wanted to charge some principles in an open field battle using the Wedge formation, do I just click on the units? When I do this it usually just seems to stop and fight then I pull back and do it again. I want to go through them, basically making a hole in the line, so fast moving infantry can run in the hole.

Is this possible?

[SwissBarbar]

you can pull back a thinner line of the enemy with superior force of yourself by clicking constantly behind them, but if you do that, do it with infantery. Cav is not made for crashing in the frontline of enemy heavy infantery and try to get trough, you would suffer lots of casualties in melee. at least this is my experience with it

[Aemilius Paulus]

Check this: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=103172 thread out if you haven't read it already. It is a superb, detailed and illustrated guide to using cavalry.

Some tips: Don't use the wedge. It is the biggest mistake you can make and I have actually seen quite a few use it on Multiplayer. The only benefit of that formation is that your units get slaughtered faster, and that is a benefit to your enemy. Line up your horsemen in a rectangle with the depth of three men. That will maximize their charge as in the wedge, only something like the first three horsemen actually charge and once they come in contact, the entire unit terminates the charge and slowly inches forward for the melee.

Never try to run through a unit after charging it. Especially if that unit is in a rather deep formation. Cavalry is most susceptible when simply running through a unit. You will suffer huge losses if you do. Charge the enemy unit and pull out in the direction you charged from immediately after the charge. That way the horsemen do not become entangled. Repeat this until the enemy unit routs. Forget about the charge bonus, all you need is the initial impact. Forget about the hole in the line too. There are elephants and scythed chariots for that in EB/RTW. Only in real life can cavalry make a whole by running through a unit and only in real life is the wedge formation effective. One needs to understand that what is true in real life is not necessarily so in a computer game.

Remember that if the enemy unit is counter-charging you, your charge will not inflict any casualties. Same goes for a unit that is running away from your horsemen. A missile unit of say, Akontistai, in the default skirmish mode, will almost always run away from your charging mounties. When this happens, the cavalry abandons the charge and starts pursuing the unit, which is not effective at all when compared to a charge. Cavalry needs sufficient distance to make a successful charge. Too little, and the cavalry spears/lances will not be lowered/couched and the charge will not inflict any casualties. When tired, very tired, or exhausted, the charges become very weak. Downhill charges are devastating and so are charges in the back of the unit, obviously. Believe it or not, charging a spear unit head-on (just don't charge a pike phalanx!) actually makes sense, especially if the unit hasn't stopped moving into their new position yet (this called bracing - when a unit has stopped moving, got into a formation, set the shield so it covers the front of the body and pointed the spear right at the enemy, not in the air). Even a Greek phalanx will suffer greatly from a frontal cavalry charge when not braced and not only this, but in some cases, I have even seen braced hoplites get mauled by a charge of a heavy mounted unit.

I don't understand why you want those "holes" so badly. "Holes' had only historical significance and as I have stated earlier, history/real life is different from a computer game. I understand you might be roleplaying, but those "holes" aren't going to work very well in game with RTW engine. Try the simple tactic of tying down the enemy with infantry and then taking your cavalry on the wings, send it around the enemy flanks and finally crashing it into their backs.

Cavalry is arguably the strongest unit type in RTW. You can win battles against seemingly all odds with an all-cavalry force. Just look at some of the nomadic AARs featuring Sauromatae, Pahlava, and Saka Rauka. Heroic victories are the norm, much more common than clear victories. All of those victories feature either all-cavalry armies; mixes of melee cavalry/HAs; or the previous two puls some foot archers. I have won numerous battles with cavalry that I would never even dream of winning with infantry. I am an infantry fan and yet I recognize that one could do so much more with cavalry. I've won battles against 2,500 men Lusotannan armies with only three cavalry units: two general's bodyguards and one light cavalry mercenary. You are really missing out on a lot of stuff by neglecting melee cavalry.

[tls5669]

Ya I know, Ive had Heroic victories all over the place using HA's. I know how to use melee cav, I just wanted to know if they can be used like a chariot, people say chariots suck, the Pontic chariots rock for doing this same thing.

Get some fast moving Inf like the Pontic swordsmen have them run behind the chariot, when the chariot smashes through the line, the swordsmen fill in the hole. Viola instant flanks, 2 of them. The AI is usually to dumb to fill the hole.



============================ <-----enemy line

^
C <-----Chariot Followed by Inf
II
II
II
II
II
II


C
======II II================== <--------Line is broken
IIII <--------Inf fills the gaps
II
II


I I II
======II III==================== <---------Inf now has 2 flanks in the middle of the line
II I II


So If Im playing a faction that doesnt have chariots or elephants for that matter, can this be done with heavy cav?

[tls5669]

Bah didnt come out like I wanted it too, but you get the idea

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Four units of heavy horse converging on a single target and impacting in rapid succession will usually break a unit (or kill a general), this will create a whole, so will cataphracts. While such strikes are devastating they should only be used when greatly outnumbered, there were less risky tactics historically and so too in RTW.

[Woreczko]

Check this: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=103172 thread out if you haven't read it already. It is a superb, detailed and illustrated guide to using cavalry.

Never try to run through a unit after charging it. Especially if that unit is in a rather deep formation. Cavalry is most susceptible when simply running through a unit. You will suffer huge losses if you do. Charge the enemy unit and pull out in the direction you charged from immediately after the charge. That way the horsemen do not become entangled. Repeat this until the enemy unit routs. Forget about the charge bonus, all you need is the initial impact. Forget about the hole in the line too. There are elephants and scythed chariots for that in EB/RTW. Only in real life can cavalry make a whole by running through a unit and only in real life is the wedge formation effective. One needs to understand that what is true in real life is not necessarily so in a computer game.

Heavy cavalry, like cataphracts or hetairoi can usually charge and then get through the infantry unit without getting big loses. The trick is to have a follow-up unit of cavalry (not necessarily heavy), which will charge just after the 1st cav makes it through and before enemy infantry forms it`s ranks again. Footmen, who are not "ready" suffer a lot if charged, and they will get a morale penalty for not being in formation and having enemies (1st cavalry unit) behind their backs. If footmen still won`t rout, you may charge again with 1st cavalry and sandwich the poor footmen - that should be enough.
Of course any reserves on enemy`s part will probably screw up such attack.