Moral bonus at temples + sword vs spear infantry

[Conan]

Hi all,

Just a couple of questions -

1. Currently deciding which temples to build and just want to know if the troop moral boost offered by certain temples is worth the investment? I would construct these in my main cities of recruitment such as Pella (playing a Mac campaign) if the moral boost really does make a difference on the field of battle to make my elite units have even more staying power on the field.

2. I've read in different posts that sword infantry have bonus vs spear infantry. Does this apply to ALL sword armed infantry be they heavy skirmishers with gladius style sword or celtic heavy infantry with huge longswords... also does this bonus apply to axes also and the large curved blades the flaxs?

Thanks in advance

[^RaGe^]

1. Yes, unless it's a very unstable city and you need every public order bonus.

2. Perhaps someone who knows more about the units can answer this question.

[Foot]

Morale bonuses are a difficult thing. If they do work, and some people don't think they do, then they only work when your soldiers are fighting in that province (or settlement).

Foot

[Conan]

Morale bonuses are a difficult thing. If they do work, and some people don't think they do, then they only work when your soldiers are fighting in that province (or settlement).

Hhhmmmm.... Doesn't sound too great then really best stick to good old reliable law bonuses me's thinks.

Anyone got info regarding the sword vs spear question.

Thanks for the feed back so far

[Chris1959]

Morale does make a difference to all units, but it is hidden on the unit cards in game so unless you look at the wonderful cards that have been done for EB you won't know what it is.
I've asked the question about the morale bonus for certain temples and the consesus seemed to be it doesn't work or if it does it only applies to units in that province i.e. a wonderous temple of Mars in Rome will only give the bonus to units when in the province of Rome. Now I may be wrong but I believe the only way it can be checked would be to find the morale for all the individual units involved a Herculean task no one has attempted.
Buildings that convey an experience bonus work and can be seen on the extra chevrons those units have when raised or re-trained.

Of course there are traits associated with Temples and FM's as well, so if you have Temples of War etc your FM's seem more likely to pick up military traits and ancillaries. I think the whole area has developed a wonderful life of it's own and even senior members aren't 100% sure what you will get from a temple or combination of buildings, two supposedly identical FM's in a settlement will develop totally different personalities!!! Kinda scary yet brilliant.

[Grriffon]

I don't think sword armed infantry get a bonus to spear units. However, spear units get a -4 attack penalty to infantry. Also, swords usually have a higher lethality than spears, meaning when they do score a hit, they are more likely to kill than simply knock down. I think.

[Aemilius Paulus]

look at the wonderful cards that have been done for EB

Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic, but where would one find those splendid cards you were talking about? I know the data is probably outdated on those cards, since new EB I versions came out since the making of the cards, but I would still love to download and edit them.

[konny]

They are part of the recruitement viewer that came with your download of EB.


Of course there are traits associated with Temples and FM's as well, so if you have Temples of War etc your FM's seem more likely to pick up military traits and ancillaries. I think the whole area has developed a wonderful life of it's own and even senior members aren't 100% sure what you will get from a temple or combination of buildings, two supposedly identical FM's in a settlement will develop totally different personalities!!! Kinda scary yet brilliant.

The working of the military traits are no secret, so to speak. They are triggered by the trait file and usually have a random percentage; that's why you can never be sure how your FMs are developing.

Moral (and any bonus) is hard to measure; in particular because its recorded nowhere, affected by a dozend things and changing constantly during a battle. It is communis opinio that the moral bonus of buildings doesn't do a thing, or doesn't work as intented - but there is no proof for or against it.

[XSamatan]

They are part of the recruitement viewer that came with your download of EB


not with v1.1

XSamatan

[Chris1959]

Amelius Paulus I have the cards saved in my docs don't know if I could forward in a personal mail folder is 115MB and I ain't to good at the tech stuff!

[Grriffon]

Amelius Paulus I have the cards saved in my docs don't know if I could forward in a personal mail folder is 115MB and I ain't to good at the tech stuff!

updated 1.1 cards?

[Chris1959]

Not 1.1 but 1.0, but I think the info is good for at least 85%+ of units, and I've always taken morale to be very important.

[Ca Putt]

i did not have the cards in my RV until today, when i downloaded it again :D,

a bit OT: what about cavalary(like equites, hippies...)? i've heard it's good to change weapons against infantry after charging, to swords but what when fighting cavalary?

[ziegenpeter]

To stay OT: How can I change weapons? Is it also possible with infantry like Herthaganautoz

EDIT: here are some answers for our Qs

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95033&highlight=change+weapon

[konny]

Not 1.1 but 1.0, but I think the info is good for at least 85%+ of units, and I've always taken morale to be very important.

Unit costs, and also sometimes unit size, has changed in most cases form 1.0 to 1.1. Stats stayed more or less the same.

Moral is important, yes, but here again (like with all stats) EB does not use any extreme values. So, you don't have units with "1" moral and neither any with "36" moral. It usualy ranges from "8" to "14" (16 for bodyguards, 22 for Gaesatae and some other exceptions). You can neither expect peasant units to instantly rout after a few seconds of fighting nor expect elites to fight to the last man in good order when outnumbered, very fast reduced by missle fire and outflanked, all at the same time.