View Full Version : 3D Units and Faction Info Over At the Official Empire Site
Sir Beane
10-25-2008, 14:55
Just bringing this to people's attention. The official Empire site has brought back the old 3D unit and faction feature info that they used to promote Rome. Go to http://www.sega.co.uk/empire/gameinfo/news.php to check out a 3D view and some info on the Grenadier unit and the Sloop, and a faction Summary for France. There is also info on the technology Platoon firing and the building University.
For those of us who are too lazy to click I've listed the info below. If people like I will keep this post updated with new stuff as and when it becomes available. Here is the info:
Faction
France
France has had fifty years of military and administrative excellence under Louis XIV, the Sun King and his servants. They achieved this in spite of a backdrop of strife and rebellion sparked by France’s involvement in the Thirty Years War. Louis and his able ministers, Cardinals Richelieu and Mazarin, were able to steer France away from the feudal struggles that hampered growth, and they created a centralised government where the King’s power is absolute.
In 1700, France is the pre-eminent power in Western Europe, with an unrivalled army, vast colonies and a King who is respected and feared by all, both at home and abroad. Few nations pose any real threat to his well-equipped armies and heavily fortified borders.
The French Bourbon dynasty is strong, even though Louis XIV is aging. There are sons and relations aplenty, with legitimate claims to many titles. To the south, the lack of a Hapsburg heir in Spain – and the feeble-mindedness of Charles II – means that a Bourbon could one day rule in Madrid. A course of action that brings this about has much to recommend it. Of course, not all offshoots of the Hapsburg line are weak as their Spanish cousins. The Austrian Habsburgs, and other European nations, may not be entirely willing to see a Frenchman or French nominee as King of Spain. No matter.
France is surrounded by possibilities, and beyond Europe there are other continents to conquer and colonise: New France in North America, and the riches of India. The untrustworthy British may have to be swept aside or crushed, but what is wrong with that?
Sweden
Sweden dominates Scandinavia and the Baltic, a Northern European empire that is the legacy of the incomparable warrior-king, Gustavus II Adolphus. Even though he died in battle at Luetzen in 1632, the army that he created helped Sweden profit from the seemingly endless religious struggles of the Thirty Years War. The nation emerged from that conflict immeasurably stronger in military terms, and able to invade its Baltic neighbours at will. This military power did, however, cost money and Swedish lives. Neither of these commodities is available in abundance, and the prudent stewardship has been necessary too. Charles XI, however, has left an impressive arsenal in place for his son, should he wish to take up the sword; and Charles XII has an obsessive interest in soldiering.
As the new century dawns, Sweden is a strong, aggressive state, surrounded by jealous rivals from whom she has taken territory in the last hundred years. To the east, the Russians would like unhindered access to the Baltic, and therefore Western Europe beyond. To the south, Poland-Lithuania wants its lost lands back. To the west, the other Scandinavian nations want independence or an end to Swedish domination of the Baltic.
In all these potential threats, however, lurk opportunities for those bold enough to seize the chance. Individually, Sweden’s rivals are not quite as threatening as they might appear: Russia is huge, that much is true, but incredibly backwards. There is no reason why the Baltic, as a Swedish “Mare Nostrum”, cannot become the basis of a new Northern, Protestant empire. Sweden’s armies are the equal of any in Europe, and her navy is not without resources and skill. With a home empire secured, who is to say that an overseas empire cannot be taken and held too?
The Ottoman Empire
The history of Europe over the last centuries can be seen as the history of the Ottoman Empire and a few annoying, small nations that thwarted Ottoman ambitions. Ottoman power is unmatched in its extent and grandeur, straddling the traditional trade route between Europe and Asia. The Ottomans also have power over the whole of the Mediterranean coast of North Africa.
This Turkish, Islamic empire supplanted the Orthodox Byzantine Empire in the 15th Century and since then it has had a continuing, if not always whole-hearted, ambition to expand further westwards into the heart of Europe. In living memory Turkish armies have reached the gates of Vienna, Austria, only to be turned back by the steadfast defenders. Turkish expansionism has always been a part of palace politics: when a Sultan has felt secure at home he has attacked Europe; when a Sultan has felt threatened by his Janissary military commanders, he has sent them to attack.
The Ottomans face challenges but within these are great opportunities. The army and navy look old fashioned compared to those of some states, but the soldiers of the Sultan are numerous indeed. Strategically, the Empire is in a potentially strong position: the Balkans are a natural bastion to defend Istanbul, and a possible springboard for conquest into central Europe. There may even be valuable allies to be found among Austria’s rivals: the authority of the Pope to stop his European flock making treaties with infidels is all but gone. Control of the Mediterranean would allow a Sultan to do as he please with the smaller European powers. And to the east, the route to India offers the chance of riches.
Great Britain
Great Britain is not a natural creation, but the marriage of separate kingdoms and peoples. The new nation has been through a century of unparalleled turbulence: an unwelcome joining of Scotland and England; religious strife; civil wars; an executed king; military dictatorship; a populist monarch restored; and the overthrow of a second king. Less than 15 years ago, the hated Catholic James II was forced into exile in the Glorious Revolution and a Protestant monarchy restored. A short, vicious war in Ireland put paid to any chance of a Catholic Stuart restoration. Nonetheless, the exiled James Stuart has sympathisers, the Jacobites, throughout Britain. Despite – or perhaps because of – this turbulent history, Britain is an engine driving the scientific and cultural advancement of northern Europe: turmoil fuels creativity.
As an island nation, Britons have always looked to, as Shakespeare puts it:
“…the silver sea, Which serves it in the office of a wall, as a moat defensive to a house…”
Britain’s strength lies at sea, but in trade and colonisation as much as naval power. Trade taxes pay for the navy; the navy allows unhindered trade. The English Channel keeps the French at bay and, to a lesser extent, the Dutch. With Dutchman William III on the British throne, there is ambivalence in the traditional rivalry with the Netherlands!
The English and Scots like to think that they can sleep safe, that no foreign invader or tyranny need worry them. They are partly right, but only as long as there is no centralised Continental power. A nation that can unite the resources of Europe will surely crush the dream of Albion. This, then, is the fundamental aim of Britain: to side with the weak in Europe against the strong – and steal as many overseas possessions as possible while doing it!
United Provinces
The United Provinces are a Protestant stronghold in North-western Europe, a place where science, trade and freedom of thought have flourished since the Spanish were driven out in the last century. Having tamed their land and held back the sea, the Dutch have also embraced the sea and become the foremost naval power in the world. A mere generation ago, the Dutch navy sailed into the Thames and burned the English fleet at anchor: this kind of bravado and expertise is not quickly forgotten.
Dutch merchantmen range across the world’s oceans, and the wealth of the world passes through Dutch ports. Dutchmen can be found trading in the Indies, where they give the locals a run for their money, and the Caribbean. They are everywhere, in fact, where there is a profit to be made. Spanish claims to the New World and its trade are cheerfully ignored, as are Spanish threats. The Dutch have learned to live with Hapsburg threats hanging over their heads. Having beaten off brutal attempts to bring them to heel, the Dutch now have little love for Hapsburg-ruled Spain or Austria. A distant Catholic emperor holds no appeal for them. An expansionist France, on the other hand, does bear watching, and guarding against.
Other rivals close at hand are now less of a threat than they used to be. The British have been… tamed is too strong a word… brought to their senses by having a good, honest Dutchman on their throne. William III of Orange was an acceptable Protestant ruler for the British when they needed one. His presence has done much to calm relations, especially as the equally-mercantile British have designs on world trade that should rightfully be Dutch!
For the future, the Dutch have much to be hopeful about. They have a strong navy, and a tradition of victory. There is wealth aplenty in every corner of the world, if only the Dutch have the will to go and take it!
Russia
“Muscovy”, as its rulers have previously called it, is a sleeping giant, with age-old traditions and ways of doing things. Here, the feudal way of life has become so entrenched that the serfs are as tied to the land as cattle, and with almost as few rights. It is a vast, deeply conservative and religious country: Mother Russia and the Orthodox Church are the two pillars of national belief. The Tsar may be the father of his people, but by tradition and practice he is a stern parent. Ivan the Terrible was well named, and he has not been the only ruler with an iron will. Russia needs a strong hand controlling the “Third Rome”, the true home of Christianity (according to the Orthodox Church) after the fall of Byzantium.
Now, however, Russia is changing, awakening. It is beginning to look outwards, towards the best that the rest of the world has to offer in terms of ideas, culture and might. These things must be introduced carefully, to avoid the ills of free-thinking that beset some Western nations. When Russia does fully realise its strength, however, it will be formidable indeed. It has boundless resources to draw upon, and the steadfast courage of its people to bolster its armies. It can be a formidable foe, and a difficult one for an enemy to attack. One thing that Russia does have is endless space, and the lack of apparently defensible frontiers actually becomes a defence in itself. Invaders can be lured deep into the steppes, and left to the mercies of “General Winter” and Russia’s endless, empty lands.
To the west lies the wealth of Europe and access to the wider world through a port on the Baltic. That the troublesome Swedes are in the way is a bonus, for they will have to be crushed! To the south, there are fellow Slavs and Orthodox Christians in the Balkans to be incorporated into a Greater Russian empire. The infidel Turks have lands and wealth aplenty too, but possibly the strength to defend them.
And beyond, there is a wider world awaiting conquest by the sons of the Mother Russia.
Spain
The Spanish have a long been conquerors and colonisers in distant parts. Indeed, the Spanish and Portuguese signed a treaty in 1494 that neatly divided the world between themselves. The Spanish went conquering “for God, Spain and to get rich”. They succeeded, to a great degree, in all three aims.
Spain is a staunchly Catholic country, and the Church and the fearsome Spanish Inquisition still have their hold over men’s hearts. This partly explains why, for all its wealth, Spain is economically backward: the Church sees usury (money lending) as sinful. This may be so, but this lack of credit does not help the merchant classes. Economic growth is also not helped when it is beneath the dignity of any hidalgo gentleman to earn money or work. But a gentleman’s honour is worth defending and a nation’s glory is worth winning, so courage is not in short supply. Indeed, Spain is blessed with courageous men on both land and sea.
That Spain will need defending, and soon, is self-evident to many. Charles II, “El Hechizado” or “the Bewitched” is a feeble-minded and pathetic figure, a shadow of his Hapsburg ancestors, and childless. Spain has suffered from his weakness of mind and government, but Charles cannot live forever. When he dies, what forces will shape the destiny of the Empire? Will Spain once again face its Protestant rivals down? Will new there be a new generation of conquistadores to plant the Spanish flag on distant shores? His successor will have much to ponder, but a brave nation to lead back to greatness!
Prussia
Prussia itself has only been “German” since the 13th Century, when the Teutonic Knights carved out a new Christian state on the Baltic coast. The present Kingdom of Prussia is a new state, the result of a union between the duchies of Brandenburg and Prussia, and it is a Kingdom only because the current ruler, Elector Frederick III has decided to improve his status to that of King! In doing so, however, he has been careful not to offend the Holy Roman Emperor, the Archduke of Austria, and calls himself the King “in” Prussia, not the King “of” Prussia. The form of words is a fig leaf: Frederick is King. And he is the king of a potentially powerful and influential Protestant nation, a centre of gravity within “the Germanies” for all those who would look elsewhere for a lead than Catholic Austria.
The Prussians believe – not without reason – that their virtues as a people can carry them through any trouble: martial discipline, sacrifice, a sense of order, but this sense of duty should not be confused with ignorance or intolerance, no matter what others may say. Prussians have always had to fight, but that has made them competent, not bloodthirsty. They have the potential to become a great continental power thanks to their martial traditions, many of which can be traced back to the Teutonic Knights. These could form the basis of a truly world-beating army. Under the right guidance, they could unite the German-speaking peoples into a single entity, dominate the Baltic and, perhaps, extend their reach far beyond the confines of Central Europe.
Poland-Lithuania
Poland is an old idea, and an old kingdom. Like anything old, it has old enmities and problems.
The problems, and enmities, are those of any state surrounded by ambitious rivals, all of whom are looking to become stronger at someone else’s expense. Sweden’s ambitions to create an empire around the Baltic; Tsar Peter’s desires to make Russia a great European power to rival the style of Bourbon France; the Austrians and Prussians each seeking to define a greater Germany and secure their borders; even the distant Ottomans have to be considered, should they ever launch a new assault on Christian Europe. And in the middle of all of this, a Polish-Lithuanian state that is not under the control of a single, strong ruler, a man who can impose his will to defend his people. Instead, Poland is something altogether stranger: a land where the people have a say in government.
That the country has survived at all is a tribute to the spirit of its people.
And yet, these rivalries could be turned to advantage. A Polish leader who picked his alliances carefully, and his wars equally so, could do much to make his country great. The Russians have no divine right to dominate the steppes, or the Swedes to control the Baltic. The various Germans states need allies, the same as other nations, and cannot expect to take anything they want without a struggle. A clever Polish leader could make much of this situation, if he can manage the hopes, expectations and fears of his people at home.
Austria
The history of Austria is one of warfare against invaders from the east, and the infidel Turks in particular. The originally Duchy was the eastern marches of the Holy Roman Empire (the Ostmark), and the defensive importance of Austria to the rest of Europe is immense. For nearly 250 years, the Ottoman Turks have hurled themselves against the bastion of Austria, reaching the gates of Vienna on more than one occasion. The last time was in 1683. Austrian bravery has kept them at bay, every time.
After the bloodletting of the last century – the Thirty Years War – within the Holy Roman Empire, Austria is a leading power among “the Germanies”. Leopold I, the ruling Hapsburg, has brought peace and prosperity, and maintained a first-class military machine (in particular, the Austrians have mastered the tactics using light, irregular troops). This gives the Austrians the potential to become a truly great power, either within the borders of the old Empire, to the south in Italy, or to the east. This latter scheme requires the Turks to be persuaded – at sword point – that their destiny lies outside Europe. The Austrians also have much to be proud of in the arts, music and culture.
Beyond their immediate borders, there are other matters for the Hapsburgs to consider. The Spanish branch of the family is now close to extinction, as Charles II has failed to produce an heir, among his other problems. Perhaps Spain should remain a part of Hapsburg domains, but this might lead to confrontation with France. And then, of course, there are the pan-Slavic, Christian Orthodox ambitions of the Russian Tsar to consider…
Marathas
The Maratha Empire or Confederacy was born in violence, as the result of the successful overthrow of Mughal rule less than a generation ago. Raja (king) Shivaji managed to gain control of the Pune region, and from then Mughal power was no longer invincible. As might be expected, the Mughals and the Marathas still nurse a dislike for each other.
Unlike the foreign (in origin) Mughals, the Maratha rulers are Indian princes and kings. They know the value of the Indian way of doing things, of the age-old strength of their lands. Their armies may look old fashioned, possibly quaint, to foreign eyes but that makes them no less effective. The empire exists solely because it has the military strength to withstand the Mughal threat.
Perhaps now, though, it is time to think of expansion. It may no longer be enough to hold off the Mughals; perhaps they should be driven from India altogether, and a new empire with Indian rulers established. Perhaps only Indians truly have the ability to withstand the Europeans who are starting to demand much of India. For now, the Europeans want only money and trade, but soon they will be after concessions, a little piece of land here, another piece there, until all is ruled by foreigners from across the sea. Unless a strong hand guides India, it is possible that the rule of Mughal outsiders will be replaced by the lordship of European outsiders.
And perhaps, one day, a Maratha could demand concessions from a European, in his lands…
United States of America
The United States of America is a nation forged in the fires of revolution and rebellion against a British monarch seen as distant, foreign and tyrannical.
After the French and Indian Wars, the British government took an entirely unreasonable line: the American colonists should pay taxes to contribute to the navy and army that helped defend them. After all, those colonial fellows enjoyed the benefits of peace, protected by Britain’s expensive soldiers and sailors. The colonists had other views. The British responded with political stupidity and military ineptitude.
Aided, once they had rebelled, by the French Bourbons (who, for reasons of their own, had every wish to see Britain pre-occupied with war and then humiliated by seditious rebels), the Americans faced down Britain. The struggle split counties, cities, towns, even families, but it united the nation.
In its wake, the revolution left a new kind of nation, a republic where men choose their own destinies, and are not subject to the whims of kings. This spirit of independence is a source of strength: it is an idea worth defending! It is also a source of weakness, for Americans cherish the right to do as they think best. This is not necessarily a good thing in an army.
America now has a future of boundless possibilities. A continent stretches away to the West, and no one is entirely sure what is to be found there. The Atlantic swell washes against the eastern seaboard, and beckons American seamen onwards: trade and adventure lie that way too. There may still be scores to settle with the British in Canada, or ambitious nations from Europe to discourage. There is much to do, if this newest and boldest of nations is to survive and prosper!
Buildings
University
Education is vital for those who wish to enter the professions, or make their way in government using talent alone. A good, well-trained brain is an excellent substitute for birth and social connections. A young gentleman’s studies can be wide ranging, and need not be tied to any particular faculty or subject area – an awarded degree or doctorate is proof enough of intellectual achievement.
Historically, in Europe at least, the established church controlled most universities, either through paying for them or by laws requiring the tutors to take holy orders. Sir Isaac Newton was very unusual in that he didn’t take orders when he was appointed Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge (a post currently held by Stephen Hawking), arguing that the post required the holder to spend time on science, not the Anglican Church. However, the requirement for teachers to accept Church doctrine did mean that universities had a socially conservative outlook. While scholarships were available, students had to have money to attend, reinforcing this conservatism. While wild, threatening ideas about the world and the way it worked did emerge from universities, the institutions were rarely radical or revolutionary breeding grounds.
Trading Port
Shipping goods of any kind by land is difficult and expensive. Any item that has to travel more than a few miles goes by ship wherever possible.
Most roads are simply terrible, and bulk cargoes (such as coal) must go by ship anyway: it is the only way of moving goods cheaply and relatively quickly. It also makes the whole world a marketplace, even if the customers are not sure what to make of the goods they are being sent (British merchants insisted on exporting heavy woollen cloth to India for years, even though there was no obvious market for it).
Coastal trade can also be very profitable. For example, a “cheese fleet” did nothing but shuttle back and forth between London and the northwest of England, bringing Cheshire cheeses to the London market. By a happy accident of geology, Cheshire had rock salt mines that provided a preservative for the local cheese to make the sea journey to London. Although salty, this was undoubtedly healthier than most food on a gentleman’s table in the 18th Century!
European-style tenanted farms
Tenanted farms can only generate so much income from rents. With an increase in town size, and an increased demand from industry for agricultural products, it is more profitable to have herds of animals, not a gaggle of tenants. Meat and wool demand increases rapidly as towns grow. Apart from any other considerations, moving people off land also creates large areas where landowners can indulge a passion for hunting. While this generates little income, it does give social status.
The “Highland Clearances” are probably the most famous example of a forced change to land usage on a large scale. Contrary to popular belief, Highland clan leaders carried out most of the Scottish clearances, driving their own kinsmen and clans into exile. The chieftains needed to pay for the sophisticated life that they could have in Edinburgh and London by reinventing themselves as Scottish gentry. Sheep simply earned more money than the crofters did.
Star Fort
The basic concept of a star fort is that at least one, and preferably many, field of fire should cover every part of the defence and the approaches to the fort. These killing zones can be extended and made even more deadly by, at the very least, a long sloping glacis around the fort for the attackers to scale. The glacis need not be very steep at all, but the attackers face an uphill struggle with no cover at all, under murderous fire ever step of the way. The glacis also acts as a passive defence, a sloping armoured earthwork for the fort proper. Beyond the glacis a hidden counterscarp awaits: a retaining wall (sometimes with firing positions for the defenders) that drops down deep ditch that must be crossed before the actual approaches to the fort are even reached!
All of these defences are before the military architects add additional ravelins (detached triangular bastions or gun positions) in front of the fort’s own walls and hornworks and crownworks (both elaborations on the basic bastion design). The whole effect, when viewed in plan form, is baroque in its complexity, each projection of the central star giving the defence another firing position towards any attacking force. Wall length is limited to that which can be covered by flanking musket fire, as experience showed that a fort with only cannons in its defence could be taken when the cannons were knocked out.
Technology
Platoon Firing
This firing plan for musketry ensures an infantry unit keeps up a continual barrage of shots against an enemy.
Nearly all line infantry carry smoothbore, muzzle-loading muskets. These take considerable time to reload after firing: anything up to a minute for poorly trained or nervous troops. During that time, the enemy can close or return fire unmolested. In the time it takes to reload, a unit can be cut down, its half-loaded weapons useless in the face of an aggressive foe. It is sensible to make sure that not everyone in an infantry unit is reloading at the same moment; this, in turn, means that not everyone should be firing at the same time.
Platoon fire is a way of dividing a unit into smaller groups that each fire, reload and fire again in turn. The result is a “rippling fire” down a line formation and, as the last platoon fires its muskets, the first is ready to fire again. A unit can always give some fire to the enemy at all times, even if this is less than a complete volley. When more than one unit is involved all the troops in every first platoon fire, followed by all the second platoons, and so on, creating several rippling barrages down the battle line.
The word “platoon” in this context does not have the modern meaning of being a sub-unit of a military company. Platoon assignment to what was a “fire group” was made on an ad hoc or informal basis, and could mean a whole regiment being assigned to a “platoon”.
Square Formation
A defensive posture for musket-armed infantry units, creating an impassable wall of steel to fend off cavalry attacks.
As the name suggests, this is four two- or three-rank lines of infantry arranged as a hollow square, with everyone facing outwards. It is a version of the obsolete pike “hedgehog”, making any cavalry charge a suicidal exercise. Bayonets are fixed to muskets when appropriate and possible.
Forming a square requires good order in the ranks. The outer companies of an infantry unit in line have to “fold back” to form the sides and back of the square, without losing cohesion in the process. The unit colours take up station in the centre, a final rallying point should the square be broken. It is also possible to form larger squares with more than one unit.
The square is, of course, a tempting target for enemy artillery. Whether it is better to form square in the face of cavalry and risk an artillery barrage, or stay in line to mitigate artillery fire and risk a cavalry charge can be a tactical conundrum!
Theoreticians argued infantry could defeat a cavalry charge by firepower alone. Brigadier General Richard Kane (later Military Governor of Gibraltar) remarked, “If a body of Foot have but Resolution and keep their Order, there is no Body of Horse dare venture within their Fire…” but for him that fire was to be delivered from a square, not a line. He was arguing for discipline as the key to success.
Fougasse
This defensive weapon is a landmine constructed by military engineers and fired by the defenders lighting a fuse.
A fougasse consists of a pit, sometimes dug at an angle, with gunpowder packed into the bottom and suitably wrapped to keep it dry. The hole is then backfilled with rubble and stones, taking care not to break the fuse, creating a huge “canister shot” weapon. Any enemies caught by the explosion are blown to smithereens by the blast. Damp, of course, will cause the fougasse to misfire, like any other gunpowder weapon.
Historically, a later and nastier, refinement used a flintlock mechanism to fire the charge. As well as making the explosion more reliable, this allowed military engineers to turn the fougasse into a booby trap. A piece of twine tied to the trigger acted as a tripwire: an unfortunate booby then stumbled and fired the device into himself and his nearby comrades.
During the 20th Century, the fougasse was refined into a flamethrower by burying oil drums on top of the explosives. And at the time of writing, the fougasse remains in use, as only one of the IEDs (improvised explosive device) used by insurgents against occupying forces in Iraq.
Units
Grenadier
Grenadiers are large, strong men, armed with muskets and carrying bags of bombs to hurl at the enemy’s ranks.
Explosive grenades are one of the oldest types of gunpowder weapon, and one of the most dangerous to use. Grenades are a simple cast iron ball, with a fuse sticking out of the top. Fuses are notoriously unreliable, and grenadiers can die as their own bombs explode prematurely. Yet no matter how terrifying grenades are for the throwers, they are infinitely worse for the targets! Grenadiers see themselves as elite, and occupy the place of honour at the right of the line on parade. They have good reason: only large, brave men become grenadiers, because it takes a big chap to throw one properly. Even their uniform makes them look bigger thanks to the pointed grenadier’s cap; a tricorne gets in the way of a good throw.
Historically, grenadier regiments and battalions began as ad hoc assault forces. All line infantry regiments had grenadier companies; collecting these sub-units gave commanders a useful group of heavily armed, aggressive and skilful soldiers. Grenadier companies remained in line infantry regiments after the creation of grenadier regiments, but they abandoned grenades. Instead, each grenadier company became a “heavy mob” of the biggest and strongest soldiers in a regiment.
Mamluks
Mamluks are fearless light horsemen, deadly when deployed against a broken or unsupported enemy.
Mounted on tireless light horses and armed with scimitars, they are commonly employed to harass an enemy force, restricting its space to manoeuvre easily. Once battle is fully joined, they will often time their charges to coincide with those of a supporting infantry unit, seeking to break the enemy quickly then wreaking havoc amongst them as they flee.
Mamluks were traditionally slave soldiers of the various caliphs and sultans of the Middle Ages, captured as children and raised in the Islamic faith to provide their master with a force of men unconnected to any other part of the hierarchy. Over time, the Mamluks accrued power of their own and even went as far as seizing control of Egypt; they founded a Mamluk Sultanate in 1250. Though the Mamluks’ strength enabled the Sultanate to repel several invasions by Christian crusaders and Mongols, it was eventually overpowered by the Ottoman Empire in 1517. The Mamluks so came into the service of the Sublime Porte.
24-pounder Howitzer Foot Artillery
Howitzers send shells plunging into enemy formations and over defences, making cover irrelevant.
Howitzers fall somewhere between guns and mortars, the other main artillery types. They have a limited mobility, like guns. Like mortars, they do not fire straight at the target, but send shots high into the air to plunge down on a target (and over anything in the way). By angling the barrel and changing the propellant charge used, howitzers have an impressive flexibility in shell trajectories. Experienced crews can lob explosive shells and incendiary rounds with great accuracy into a “beaten zone”, making life utterly miserable and very short for anyone within it. In close action, they can fire canister rounds directly into enemy formations, like giant sawn-off shotguns.
The term foot artillery applies because the gunners walk into battle alongside the draft animals. Like all artillery, the weight rating of these howitzers refers to the size of shot fired; a 24-pounder is worthy of respect!
Historically, howitzers – like many artillery pieces – were far from standardised weapons in the 18th Century. Shells and spare parts from in one foundry did not always fit another foundry’s pieces, even if the calibre was nominally identical. It took a good deal of effort and argument to get foundries to standardise barrels and ancillary equipment, even in one country.
Clansmen
These fierce Highland warriors intimidate all enemies with their wild skirling attacks and barbarous apparel.
Highland clans are the last tribal society in Western Europe. Men fight for their chieftains because they are expected to defend their clans’ honour and lands. They fight for these in the same way that they have done for centuries: with the broadsword and buckler, pistol, and Lochaber axe. There is little that regular line troops find as disturbing as the sight of a clan bearing down on them, screaming their hate and defiance. Highland Scots are brave, hard men.
Historically, the clans were destroyed as a military force at Culloden in 1746, by both British regulars and other, loyalist clansmen. The romance of the clans died on the field, along with a great many men who hurled themselves into a storm of lead and cannonballs armed with nothing more than swords. The clansmen were then repeatedly betrayed and used by their own chiefs, and then eventually driven off the land when sheep became more profitable. Highlanders were forced to scatter across the world, taking their fighting traditions with them.
Elite Light Infantry
Light infantry forces form a skirmish line to slow the enemy advance and keep their own line unmolested by enemy skirmishers.
Whether they are called light infantry, jaegers, tirailleurs or chasseurs à pied, it is the job of these men to screen the main battle line, harass the enemy and, if possible, pick off important men in the enemy’s ranks. Unlike their fellows in the line infantry, light infantrymen are trained to think for themselves, use the ground and cover intelligently, and not fight in rigid lines. Instead, they form a loose skirmish line and fire independently at their own designated targets. The effect is a constant, low-level barrage rather than the crashing thunder of a volley but the effect is quite deadly as officers and sergeants are picked off and removed from the fight. Against cavalry, however, their best defence is to withdraw to their own battle line.
Historically, the Austrians were widely regarded as producing the finest light infantry forces in Europe. Other nations did catch up, but in the case of Britain and France it was their experiences in fighting in North America that persuaded them of the wisdom of light troops. Battle lines were simply impossible to manage in the dense woodlands, and largely pointless against the native tribes!
Naval Units
Sloop
A sloop of war is usually ketch-rigged with two masts. These small vessels handle well in restricted waters.
The ability to navigate in exceptionally shallow or dangerous waters makes sloops very useful in such seas as the reef-strewn waters of the Caribbean. They can also operate without the need for extensive onshore naval facilities nearby. They are also extremely useful as fleet auxiliaries, carrying out communications tasks and vital inshore scouting work, and can hunt down smaller prey such as privateers and small enemy cargo vessels. A sloop-of-war (sometimes a corvette in French service) is a different vessel from a civilian, merchant sloop, having a flush deck, two square-rigged masts, guns, and a larger crew.
Historically, a post captain would rarely command a ship this small. The commanding officer was the “master and commander” (this is the origin of the modern naval rank of commander), and held the formal rank of lieutenant. Captain Cook RN commanded HMS Resolution, a sloop converted from a collier (coal ship), on his epic Pacific voyages and was highly satisfied with its performance. Sloop captains could be aggressive: before his promotion to post captain, Thomas Cochrane commanded the 14-gun HMS Speedy and managed to capture “El Gamo”, a Spanish xebec of 32 guns with a crew six times larger than his own!
Fifth Rate
Frigates are single-deck warships, used for a variety of tasks thanks to a combination of good handling, firepower and endurance at sea.
“Fifth rate” is a Royal Navy term for the largest of the single-deck frigates, square-rigged ships that carry some 44 guns, usually no heavier than 12-pounders. Originally a French design – but quickly adopted by the other European powers – the frigate is used for pursuit, convoy protection, commerce raiding and reconnaissance work. The design’s excellent sailing characteristics and good handling, especially in inshore waters, make it a useful addition to any blockading fleet. The frigate’s ability to operate far away from a home port also makes them it a useful cruiser, carrying the fight to the enemy in unexpected waters.
Frigates can have the advantage over larger, two-deck ships in rough waters. A frigate captain rarely has to worry about his gun deck taking on water, and can therefore fight in conditions that leave bigger ships at a disadvantage. However, fifth rates are not powerful enough to face battleships. They have the speed and handling to stay out of trouble; they do not have the strength of construction to survive a pounding! Against sloops, brigs and merchantmen, however, they are deadly. This makes them excellent postings for officers hungry for prize money and glory.
Frigates captains made splendid role models for fictional heroes: Thomas, Lord Cochrane earned a fortune in prize money, gained the nickname “le loup des mers” (sea-wolf) and was the inspiration for fictional heroes Horatio Hornblower and Jack Aubrey.
Razee
A razee is a robust frigate, created by cutting the top deck off a larger ship of the line.
Frigates are a vital part of any balanced sea-going fleet. They are cruisers that can operate independently and are swift enough to hunt down enemy merchantmen. the chance for prize money makes them popular postings among officers and men alike!
One way of creating a large, powerful frigate is to take a two-deck ship of the line and, in effect, saw off the top deck creating a single-deck frigate. The first result is that a 64-gun ship can now only carry 44 guns, but the ones that remain are the heavier than those normally found on a frigate, typically 32- or 24-pounders rather than the expected 18s! The second result is that the razee retains the strong timbers of the original 64, making it a robust ship in combat. Thirdly, having lost its upper works, the new ship generally handles rather well under sail. All this work takes time and valuable dock space, of course.
Historically, one of the most successful razees was HMS Indefatigable, commanded by Edward Pellew. In the company of another frigate, Pellew took on - and defeated - the Droits de l'Homme, a French 74, in 1797. During the next year or so, Pellew and the Indefatigable went on to take a further nine vessels.
First Rate
The first rate is the largest type of “ship of the line of battle”, intended to be the centre of any fleet. These are very expensive and powerful vessels.
While these warships are among the most powerful vessels afloat, they are poor sailors, being both slow and unresponsive. This is not a serious shortcoming because, armed with around 100 cannons firing 32-, 24- and 18-pounder balls on their three decks, they can fire a terrible and destructive broadside. They carry a crew of over 800 sailors, gunners and marines and have more artillery than most land armies. Their cost, however, is a drawback and few navies can afford to build or maintain more than a handful of them.
Historically, first rates were never common, and hardly ever sent to overseas stations. They existed purely to fight in set-piece battles, and were not used for mundane duties such as protecting merchantmen, policing the seas and hunting down privateers.
System Requirements
Here are the minimum specs for Empire: Total War:
2.4Ghz single core processor
256MB Gfx card (DX9 compaitble)
1GB RAM (For XP, 2GB if using Vista)
All info copied and pasted from the official site. If you want to see the pictures you've got to clicky the link. Hope this is helpful. :2thumbsup:
The_Doctor
10-25-2008, 16:00
White text on a black background, what did we do to deserve this?:furious3:
Sir Beane
10-25-2008, 17:01
White text on a black background, what did we do to deserve this?:furious3:
Ha! You are right. It isn't easy on the yes is it? That's one of the reasons I copied it all into this thread. We don't want everyone to go blind before Empire comes out. :laugh4:
BananaBob
10-26-2008, 04:17
I neeeed more information! I am almost insane with anticipation!
Megas Methuselah
10-26-2008, 06:19
At least you're not pissing yourself. Right?
Anyways, yeah, I'm right beside ya. I need WAAAAAY more information. Like the next video, perhaps? :wink3:
Discoman
10-26-2008, 19:37
I'm mainly looking forward to the technology tree the most. I really want to see all the neat things research can do when it comes to the battlefield.
Mailman653
10-31-2008, 18:37
24-pounder Howitzer Foot Artillery (http://www.sega.com/empire/units/?t=EnglishUSA)
Polemists
11-03-2008, 15:02
all offshoots of the Hapsburg line are weak as their Spanish cousins. The Austrian Habsburgs, and other European nations, may not be entirely willing to see a Frenchman or French nominee as King of Spain. No matter.
That right, I'm coming for you France (plans ot play Austria) :sharky:
In other news, why grenadiers? They are in every game ever. I'm sure they are a historical unit and all but couldn't we have some unique name.
University is cool, unforunately I think making my people smart would cause them to uprise....:wall:
Sol Invictus
11-03-2008, 15:53
Sweden just made the offical cut, though there is currently no info for the faction.
In other news, why grenadiers? They are in every game ever. I'm sure they are a historical unit and all but couldn't we have some unique name.
Because they are the generic unit that everyone will have. Like town militia in Medieval 2. A unique name would be a unique unit in this period.
Sweden just made the offical cut, though there is currently no info for the faction.
Marvelous. :2thumbsup:
EDIT: Here's the link (http://www.sega.co.uk/empire/gameinfo/factions.php?id=16), by the way.
Sweden
Sweden dominates Scandinavia and the Baltic, a Northern European empire that is the legacy of the incomparable warrior-king, Gustavus II Adolphus. Even though he died in battle at Luetzen in 1632, the army that he created helped Sweden profit from the seemingly endless religious struggles of the Thirty Years War. The nation emerged from that conflict immeasurably stronger in military terms, and able to invade its Baltic neighbours at will. This military power did, however, cost money and Swedish lives. Neither of these commodities is available in abundance, and the prudent stewardship has been necessary too. Charles XI, however, has left an impressive arsenal in place for his son, should he wish to take up the sword; and Charles XII has an obsessive interest in soldiering.
As the new century dawns, Sweden is a strong, aggressive state, surrounded by jealous rivals from whom she has taken territory in the last hundred years. To the east, the Russians would like unhindered access to the Baltic, and therefore Western Europe beyond. To the south, Poland-Lithuania wants its lost lands back. To the west, the other Scandinavian nations want independence or an end to Swedish domination of the Baltic.
In all these potential threats, however, lurk opportunities for those bold enough to seize the chance. Individually, Sweden’s rivals are not quite as threatening as they might appear: Russia is huge, that much is true, but incredibly backwards. There is no reason why the Baltic, as a Swedish “Mare Nostrum”, cannot become the basis of a new Northern, Protestant empire. Sweden’s armies are the equal of any in Europe, and her navy is not without resources and skill. With a home empire secured, who is to say that an overseas empire cannot be taken and held too?
Gustav II Adolf
11-03-2008, 19:03
Im a happy man! :balloon2::balloon2::balloon2:
First time for Sweden in the series.
Link:
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/39019/t/Sweden-Faction-Feature.html
G
It is indeed a grand thing. :2thumbsup:
Threads merged.
Gustav II Adolf
11-03-2008, 19:37
Oops. didnt see it was posted allready.
G
Sir Beane
11-03-2008, 21:29
I've added the new info into the OP. Eventually this thread should be a pretty reliable source of info for all of the playable factions plus a lot of units and technologies.
Fantastic! My swedish soldiers will conquer the world and everyone shall fear my name! Bwahahaaha! (I might just settle with conquering those english bastards) :inquisitive:
Not if the Dutch soldiers stop you :whip:
I hope they'll release info about the Dutch sson :beam:
Sheogorath
11-04-2008, 00:41
Fantastic! My swedish soldiers will conquer the world and everyone shall fear my name! Bwahahaaha! (I might just settle with conquering those english bastards) :inquisitive:
Not if the Dutch soldiers stop you :whip:
I hope they'll release info about the Dutch sson :beam:
You'll both be Russian colonies if I have anything to say about it! :laugh4:
You'll both be Russian colonies if I have anything to say about it! :laugh4:
Yes, and in the first five minutes I will have unlocked Saxony and all their pink factioned glory and force you silly Russians to wear the uniform you deserve while being my cannon fodder :evilgrin:
Sheogorath
11-04-2008, 04:51
Yes, and in the first five minutes I will have taken over Saxony and all their pink factioned glory and force you silly Russians to wear the uniform you deserve while being my cannon fodder :evilgrin:
Fix'd ;)
Fix'd ;)
LOL, :laugh4::laugh4:
I really wasn't expecting that! Thanks for the laugh :bow:
Sir Beane
11-04-2008, 15:43
A new naval unit. http://www.sega.co.uk/empire/units/?id=2
Fifth Rate
Frigates are single-deck warships, used for a variety of tasks thanks to a combination of good handling, firepower and endurance at sea.
“Fifth rate” is a Royal Navy term for the largest of the single-deck frigates, square-rigged ships that carry some 44 guns, usually no heavier than 12-pounders. Originally a French design – but quickly adopted by the other European powers – the frigate is used for pursuit, convoy protection, commerce raiding and reconnaissance work. The design’s excellent sailing characteristics and good handling, especially in inshore waters, make it a useful addition to any blockading fleet. The frigate’s ability to operate far away from a home port also makes them it a useful cruiser, carrying the fight to the enemy in unexpected waters.
Frigates can have the advantage over larger, two-deck ships in rough waters. A frigate captain rarely has to worry about his gun deck taking on water, and can therefore fight in conditions that leave bigger ships at a disadvantage. However, fifth rates are not powerful enough to face battleships. They have the speed and handling to stay out of trouble; they do not have the strength of construction to survive a pounding! Against sloops, brigs and merchantmen, however, they are deadly. This makes them excellent postings for officers hungry for prize money and glory.
Frigates captains made splendid role models for fictional heroes: Thomas, Lord Cochrane earned a fortune in prize money, gained the nickname “le loup des mers” (sea-wolf) and was the inspiration for fictional heroes Horatio Hornblower and Jack Aubrey.
Nice. I wonder, though, how many players will name at least one of their Fifth Rates the "Surprise"? ~D
Sheogorath
11-04-2008, 18:47
LOL, :laugh4::laugh4:
I really wasn't expecting that! Thanks for the laugh :bow:
That's what you get when you tangle with the Prince of Madness ;)
ANYWAY
They seem to be avoiding giving out anything particularly interesting just yet...I mean, everything thus far we could've expected to be in the game from the start. Except maybe 24-pound howitzers, which I always thought were generally confined to siege trains...
24pdr howitzer would IIRC be the 5.5 inch version and that has same caliber as a 24pdr gun. Of course a shell would weigh less, maybe 18 pounds.
The Russian 1/2 pud Licorne fired a 20 pound shell.
Such weapons were meant for the heavy foot batteries and worked in the 12 pdr field gun batteries.
CBR
i saw this already, been there 4 a while i think still nice info....
Megas Methuselah
11-04-2008, 21:27
Nice. I wonder, though, how many players will name at least one of their Fifth Rates the "Surprise"? :biggrin:
Wait, wait, wait! You can give units and ships names? :wacko:
At the very least I would hope the ships will have names randomly selected from a list, like family members.
Wait, wait, wait! You can give units and ships names? :wacko:
I don't remember now if it was at TWC or the official forums, but I know at one point CA hinted we might be able to change a ship's default name, yes. While I caution that this has yet to be officially confirmed, it did sound like it was a real possibility. ~:)
Megas Methuselah
11-05-2008, 02:50
Too bad we couldn't do the same with land units, too. That'd be sweet, to sort of see how far a unit came from when it was first trained... :beam:
Too bad we couldn't do the same with land units, too. That'd be sweet, to sort of see how far a unit came from when it was first trained... :beam:
I'm still slightly keeping my fingers crossed on this, though since they haven't announced that this feature will be in, I suppose we should assume it won't be.
Then again, there will be the "special" units in the limited edition which could work something like this, but presumably they will simply be separate unit types rather than named versions of regular units.
Polemists
11-05-2008, 13:37
I am plesantly surprised. When MTW2 was gearing up all we got were the factions everyone basically *Knew* for information. Byzantine Empire, France, Holy Roman Empire, Papacy (who you couldn't even play).
This time I was sure they'd roll out the France, England, Germany, 13 colonies band wagon.
While I have no intention to play Sweden my first time, I do plan at some point to play them. I am glad to see they have a nice history, and backround. I can only hope they are more fleshed out then poor Hungary of MTW2 (Oh my militia is in horrible uniforms, that's how I know they are hungarian, and we have battlefield assassins who are useless).
With all this info I wonder what they will do in early jan when the videos are done and most of factions listed?
Maybe they will just hope everyone will focus on christmas until late Jan and a demo comes out haha.
Hang on a moment. The article on the Fifth-Rate describes it as a single-decked ship (and makes much of how this is a big advantage in heavy weather), but the ship in the picture appears to have two gun decks. Huh?
Sir Beane
11-05-2008, 14:32
Hang on a moment. The article on the Fifth-Rate describes it as a single-decked ship (and makes much of how this is a big advantage in heavy weather), but the ship in the picture appears to have two gun decks. Huh?
That's a very good point. I though something on the Frigate model looked off. Maybe they uploaded the wrong one?
One concern I have at the moment is that all the ships are going to look too similar, so far none of the ships in the screenshots have stood out paticularly. I'd like to see somevariation in paintjobs and decoration between ships.
Polemists
11-05-2008, 14:49
I agree. I mean if they can do unit randomization why not boat randomization.
You know like 4-5 ship designs and just have it repeat throughout the unit. Like mtw2 did with land units.
Fisherking
11-05-2008, 19:39
Generally, a frigate is described as a 3-masted vessel, with square sails on all masts, and carrying guns on at least one covered gun deck.
The key here gentlemen is a covered gun deck. Frigates carried between 24 and 44 cannon but this didn’t count carronade. So I think the American 44s actually had about 52 prices on board.
The explanation was just a bit too brief but the picture is correct
Sir Beane
11-11-2008, 20:11
Looks like we have another update, this time a building.
Trading Port
Shipping goods of any kind by land is difficult and expensive. Any item that has to travel more than a few miles goes by ship wherever possible.
Most roads are simply terrible, and bulk cargoes (such as coal) must go by ship anyway: it is the only way of moving goods cheaply and relatively quickly. It also makes the whole world a marketplace, even if the customers are not sure what to make of the goods they are being sent (British merchants insisted on exporting heavy woollen cloth to India for years, even though there was no obvious market for it).
Coastal trade can also be very profitable. For example, a “cheese fleet” did nothing but shuttle back and forth between London and the northwest of England, bringing Cheshire cheeses to the London market. By a happy accident of geology, Cheshire had rock salt mines that provided a preservative for the local cheese to make the sea journey to London. Although salty, this was undoubtedly healthier than most food on a gentleman’s table in the 18th Century!
Sol Invictus
11-11-2008, 21:45
This is like Chinese water torture. The drip-drip of info is driving me crazy.:dizzy2:
Majd il-Romani
11-12-2008, 02:35
Soon the Ottomans will rule all :sultan:
Polemists
11-12-2008, 05:48
So my plan is clear, I must find a way to commandeer the infamous cheese fleet. :laugh4:
We've got a new faction featured: The Ottoman Empire (http://www.sega.co.uk/empire/gameinfo/factions.php?id=17)!
The Ottoman Empire
The history of Europe over the last centuries can be seen as the history of the Ottoman Empire and a few annoying, small nations that thwarted Ottoman ambitions. Ottoman power is unmatched in its extent and grandeur, straddling the traditional trade route between Europe and Asia. The Ottomans also have power over the whole of the Mediterranean coast of North Africa.
This Turkish, Islamic empire supplanted the Orthodox Byzantine Empire in the 15th Century and since then it has had a continuing, if not always whole-hearted, ambition to expand further westwards into the heart of Europe. In living memory Turkish armies have reached the gates of Vienna, Austria, only to be turned back by the steadfast defenders. Turkish expansionism has always been a part of palace politics: when a Sultan has felt secure at home he has attacked Europe; when a Sultan has felt threatened by his Janissary military commanders, he has sent them to attack.
The Ottomans face challenges but within these are great opportunities. The army and navy look old fashioned compared to those of some states, but the soldiers of the Sultan are numerous indeed. Strategically, the Empire is in a potentially strong position: the Balkans are a natural bastion to defend Istanbul, and a possible springboard for conquest into central Europe. There may even be valuable allies to be found among Austria’s rivals: the authority of the Pope to stop his European flock making treaties with infidels is all but gone. Control of the Mediterranean would allow a Sultan to do as he please with the smaller European powers. And to the east, the route to India offers the chance of riches.
Sheogorath
11-13-2008, 02:39
Russia and Austria are 'small' nations? :laugh4:
Polemists
11-15-2008, 05:46
If they wants a piece of Austria bring it on :whip:
Sir Beane
11-18-2008, 19:36
Here's a new technology that everyone knew would be in the game anyway. CA don't seem keen to release new info.
Square Formation
A defensive posture for musket-armed infantry units, creating an impassable wall of steel to fend off cavalry attacks.
As the name suggests, this is four two- or three-rank lines of infantry arranged as a hollow square, with everyone facing outwards. It is a version of the obsolete pike “hedgehog”, making any cavalry charge a suicidal exercise. Bayonets are fixed to muskets when appropriate and possible.
Forming a square requires good order in the ranks. The outer companies of an infantry unit in line have to “fold back” to form the sides and back of the square, without losing cohesion in the process. The unit colours take up station in the centre, a final rallying point should the square be broken. It is also possible to form larger squares with more than one unit.
The square is, of course, a tempting target for enemy artillery. Whether it is better to form square in the face of cavalry and risk an artillery barrage, or stay in line to mitigate artillery fire and risk a cavalry charge can be a tactical conundrum!
Theoreticians argued infantry could defeat a cavalry charge by firepower alone. Brigadier General Richard Kane (later Military Governor of Gibraltar) remarked, “If a body of Foot have but Resolution and keep their Order, there is no Body of Horse dare venture within their Fire…” but for him that fire was to be delivered from a square, not a line. He was arguing for discipline as the key to success.
Alexander the Pretty Good
11-18-2008, 19:55
For the history buffs: wouldn't the square be useless without bayonets? Or at least not more effective than a line?
For the history buffs: wouldn't the square be useless without bayonets? Or at least not more effective than a line?
IMO it would still work as the cavalry do not have an open flank to attack. So the infantry will still feel safe in such a formation and the cavalry will still have to deal with a salvo.
CBR
Mailman653
11-18-2008, 20:09
For the history buffs: wouldn't the square be useless without bayonets? Or at least not more effective than a line?
I think the first row or two would be keeled with bayonets facing out while the people behind them would be standing providing a constant rate of fire so no matter what part of the square thee attacking cavalry is facing it would meet cold steel or a bullet.
Sir Beane
11-19-2008, 16:04
There is a new faction up at the Official Site. To be honest I was completely shocked when I saw it. Great Britain has been confirmed as a playable faction! That's right! Great Britain! I love it when CA throws us a few big suprises. Honestly, who saw this coming?
Great Britain
Great Britain is not a natural creation, but the marriage of separate kingdoms and peoples. The new nation has been through a century of unparalleled turbulence: an unwelcome joining of Scotland and England; religious strife; civil wars; an executed king; military dictatorship; a populist monarch restored; and the overthrow of a second king. Less than 15 years ago, the hated Catholic James II was forced into exile in the Glorious Revolution and a Protestant monarchy restored. A short, vicious war in Ireland put paid to any chance of a Catholic Stuart restoration. Nonetheless, the exiled James Stuart has sympathisers, the Jacobites, throughout Britain. Despite – or perhaps because of – this turbulent history, Britain is an engine driving the scientific and cultural advancement of northern Europe: turmoil fuels creativity.
As an island nation, Britons have always looked to, as Shakespeare puts it:
“…the silver sea, Which serves it in the office of a wall, as a moat defensive to a house…”
Britain’s strength lies at sea, but in trade and colonisation as much as naval power. Trade taxes pay for the navy; the navy allows unhindered trade. The English Channel keeps the French at bay and, to a lesser extent, the Dutch. With Dutchman William III on the British throne, there is ambivalence in the traditional rivalry with the Netherlands!
The English and Scots like to think that they can sleep safe, that no foreign invader or tyranny need worry them. They are partly right, but only as long as there is no centralised Continental power. A nation that can unite the resources of Europe will surely crush the dream of Albion. This, then, is the fundamental aim of Britain: to side with the weak in Europe against the strong – and steal as many overseas possessions as possible while doing it!
There is a new faction up at the Official Site. To be honest I was completely shocked when I saw it. Great Britain has been confirmed as a playable faction! That's right! Great Britain! I love it when CA throws us a few big suprises. Honestly, who saw this coming?
:laugh4:
While I expected that one of the more well-known nations like Spain or Brandenberg/Prussia would be the next faction to be revealed, I will admit I didn't think Britain would be confirmed until farther down the line. I'd thought that CA would first want to torture their UK fans for a while longer.... ~D
Polemists
11-20-2008, 05:29
ah yes a company who lives in England and has put a Brittish faction in every game except shogun, who would have thunk it :laugh4:
This a very useful link tho, hopefully the first page of this thread keeps getting updated.
So since i am unfamiliar with british history, I take it during this time frame Ireland is not part of Great Britain ?
So since i am unfamiliar with british history, I take it during this time frame Ireland is not part of Great Britain ?
:inquisitive:
Ireland had long been under English/British rule by 1700.
Strictly speaking Ireland was never part of Great Britain. The term "Great Britain" refers to the main island of the British Isles, consisting of England, Wales and Scotland; the official name of the UK is the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". The term "Britain", meanwhile, refers only to England and Wales. If it seems confusing, don't worry, many British people get it wrong too, using the terms "UK", "Great Britain", "Britain" interchangeably even though they are all technically different entities. Occasionally people do even simply use "England" as a catch-all term to refer to the whole of the UK, which really winds up the Scots and Welsh.
I believe at the time the game starts Ireland was essentially a British colony like any other, rather than an integral part of the UK; Ireland only became officially part of the UK due to the Act of Union in 1801 and remained part of the Union until Irish independance in 1922. I'm not sure if and how the Acts of Union with Ireland and Scotland will be portrayed in game; the Scottish Act of Union was in 1707, just after the game starts, so I imagine it will be in in some form.
I do wonder, actually, whether there will be any distinction between land that is part of your actual nation and colonies/conquered territory? It would be a bit odd if the population of India were able to vote in British elections, for example (not that most of the population of Britain were able to vote at this point either). Would it be possible for me to pass an Act of Union with the American colonies, for example, forestalling an outright revolution and granting the colonists representation in Parliament in return? I am very interested to see how government and ministers will work in Empire.
Polemists
11-22-2008, 09:35
Would it be possible for me to pass an Act of Union with the American colonies, for example, forestalling an outright revolution and granting the colonists representation in Parliament in return?
That sounds very interesting, while I don't think CA will add that much detail I'd like to see some mention of the Acts of Union, they sound rather integral part of the timeframe.
Sorry I don't know my Ireland, Britain, UK stuff. It's all very confusing to those of us not born there.
Wonder if Australia will play any part. Since Australia is not on the map I was curious if it'd have any financial influence.
Wikipedia says it was founded as a penal colony in 1770 which is kind of smack dab in middle of this time frame. Who knows, maybe British will have option to send prisoners there after they quell revolts :laugh4:
Wonder if Australia will play any part. Since Australia is not on the map I was curious if it'd have any financial influence.
Wikipedia says it was founded as a penal colony in 1770 which is kind of smack dab in middle of this time frame. Who knows, maybe British will have option to send prisoners there after they quell revolts
Heh, maybe the Special Forces Edition will have "Kangaroo Gunners" or something...
What? It's no more crazy than Incendiary Pigs! =P
Antagonist
11-22-2008, 14:41
Woah. Who saw that one coming? :dizzy2:
Ireland had long been under English/British rule by 1700.
Strictly speaking Ireland was an independent Kingdom up until 1801, but since the King of Ireland was also the King of Great Britain, and the Irish Parliament was effectively subordinate to the British one (and was grossly unrepresentative anyway) this was largely a matter of form. It was technically independent, but as it had little power (and particularly no foreign policy or military) of its own it makes sense to depict it as controlled by Britain. It'd be nice if the description mentioned this though.
What's interesting about the Ireland issue is that questions about it here (http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/39399/t/Great-Britain-Faction-Feature.html) prompted CA to confirm that:
Ireland is an 'emergent nation' that will only appear if there is a successful rebellion in the region Ireland (successful meaning the rebel army captures the region capital, Dublin). If so, Ireland establishes itself as a faction.
...which is interesting. One wonders how many such potential emergent factions there will be. I assume the United States will be one of them, but no doubt there will be others too... Belgium? Norway? Greece?
Antagonist
Alexander the Pretty Good
11-22-2008, 19:36
I wonder/hope you can finance them, too.
Fisherking
11-22-2008, 19:42
Interesting! I guess since the Jacobites are mentioned this also holds true for them.
I wonder if GB’s overseas passions then try to invade or if they change over to the new King?
Just as a side light, Ben Franklin held talks with the Stuarts just in case the Colonies wanted a king. I wonder how that would play out?
Strictly speaking Ireland was an independent Kingdom up until 1801, but since the King of Ireland was also the King of Great Britain, and the Irish Parliament was effectively subordinate to the British one (and was grossly unrepresentative anyway) this was largely a matter of form. It was technically independent, but as it had little power (and particularly no foreign policy or military) of its own it makes sense to depict it as controlled by Britain. It'd be nice if the description mentioned this though.
Yeah, I meant that for all practical purposes they were under English/British control. I tend to overlook technicalities. ~D
One wonders how many such potential emergent factions there will be. I assume the United States will be one of them, but no doubt there will be others too... Belgium? Norway? Greece?
Antagonist
That is indeed an interesting question. Aside from the U.S., the Jacobites, and now Ireland, none have yet been confirmed.
Certainly Norway and Greece are two possibilities; Serbia is another. I'll also be curious to see whether any of Spain's colonies in the Americas might break away.
I wonder/hope you can finance them, too.
That's been another oft-stated request. I'd like to see this as well, but there's been no word on whether or not it's in the game.
That is indeed an interesting question. Aside from the U.S., the Jacobites, and now Ireland, none have yet been confirmed.
Certainly Norway and Greece are two possibilities; Serbia is another. I'll also be curious to see whether any of Spain's colonies in the Americas might break away.
A number of the most notable people to play a part in history at that time period were so because they played a part in a civil war or a disputed claim. There's every chance there'll be a lot of 'emergent' factions therefore. That's both good and bad - I never liked 'emergents' in the last 2 total war games because the game rather doesn't like you playing them (e.g., Mongols, Romano-british etc). And often they're different enough to warrant being a playable. Hopefully they'd simply engineer the campaign so you start later if you played an unlocked 'emergent'. That, or some mod does the job for me (I'm the type of guy who would put Macedon from 'unplayable' to 'playable' in RTW just for that one unit that they get that Greece didn't get, and for the different colourscheme =P )
If there are a lot of 'emergents', I reckon Britain will be a lot more fun to play than England ever was in M2 - there'll be someone to fight back home to keep you on your toes (since the homeland's probably basically going to be invulnerable to attack from an AI-controlled mainland Europe).
I wonder how conquest will be done in this one. Historically, there wasn't a lot of actual conquering or border redrawing going on at this stage in history. People shot eachother up a bit and then the status quo resumed. Plus, the map's too big for cities to be marched into, RTW/M2 style. Unless, of course, you have like twelve cities per continent, which would kind of suck. And I sure don't want to be able to take over a whole country á la RISK.
So, while I am psyched about this game and want to know EVERYTHING about it...I am a tad skeptical.
Megas Methuselah
11-23-2008, 06:03
I keep hearing word on emergent factions: You get the option to play as them once they emerge. Let Martok confirm this.
Oh, Martok! You owe me a cake, btw. :yes:
Polemists
11-23-2008, 07:09
Yes,
My basic understanding about emergent factions, is that once they arise you can choose to stick with current faction or join them.
The only true example we have is 13 colonies, where if they rebel you can either join/choose to play as the 13 colonies, or remain as England. I would assume it would be the same for Ireland and the other factions.
Emergent factions are usually quite unique and I'm sure there are enough people who may enjoy playing them to be curious. For instance, if the Spainish area of North America rebelled during the same time frame the Brittish one does, it would be interesting to see a New Spain v 13 Colonies, even New France v 13 Colonies would be amusing.
You are technically right the map dosn't drastically change but CA is careful to point out that was a historic choice. The pieces are in place that the map *can* change drastically. I mean this is the time of England booming, now yes everyone grabbed all the land before the 18th century, no doubt. There is the possibility though for any nation to rise, and CA has pointed out there is more then one way to *win* this time.
As for
since the homeland's probably basically going to be invulnerable to attack from an AI-controlled mainland Europe).
I doubt that, while I don't think the AI has improved drastically I'm pretty sure there will be europe v europe at some point.
Sheogorath
11-23-2008, 08:48
I doubt that, while I don't think the AI has improved drastically I'm pretty sure there will be europe v europe at some point.
You mean the AI won't be the Godlike all-knowing, telepathic, superprocessing, alpha-and-omega, awesomeness based off the cloned brains of Napoleon, Suvurov, and Nelson? It won't be able to predict the future, solve world hunger, end war, and invent a newer, safer, more reliable wheel?
We've been LIED too! :thumbsdown:
Shame, CA. Shame. :shame:
In all seriousness, it's good to know, at the very least, that the good ol', "Errant captain leading an army consisting of a single pox-ridden peasant, armed with a stick and missing an arm, who feels like it's time to show you the what-for besieging one of your cities" shtick has been dealt with.
Funny how it took them two games to deal with that >_>
Still, it'd be nice to see some unique units in this little list they've got going. Next up will be 'musketeers' or something. Give us something interesting, ya slobs! :whip:
Fisherking
11-23-2008, 10:55
Ya!
:wall: One might think that with only 70 something days left and some 50 factions, be they playable or not, assortments of land units, ships of all kinds, technologies, and buildings, they could be releasing something every day and still have things to surprise you with when you load up the game.:whip:
I keep hearing word on emergent factions: You get the option to play as them once they emerge. Let Martok confirm this.
Surely, that would defeat the purpose of trying with your original faction? If I wanted to, for example, play as the Thirteen Colonies, I would surely not waste time making Britain strong, especially in the Americas. I'd probably just disband the entire military over there to make my life a lot easier when I became the Colonies...
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I just see it as being a tad abusable.
Polemists
11-23-2008, 11:39
You could do that, though disbanding would just put more money in your packet and why AI takes over they will spend, spend, spend.
I mean yes you could, but it's my understanding only two ways to play as 13 colonies is to either play the 13 colonies road to freedom campaign, or play as british and then choose 13 colonies as emergent faction when they revolt.
Which means to my knowledge only way you can play as Ireland is either mod or to start as England.
I keep hearing word on emergent factions: You get the option to play as them once they emerge. Let Martok confirm this.
Actually, aside from the 13 Colonies, I've not heard anything about being able to play emergent factions. It would be great if we could, of course, but thus far CA hasn't said anything about whether or not we can play as them.
Oh, Martok! You owe me a cake, btw. :yes:
What -- do you have a death wish?? Because I guarantee food poisoning would be in your future if I were to make you a cake. ~;p
Surely, that would defeat the purpose of trying with your original faction? If I wanted to, for example, play as the Thirteen Colonies, I would surely not waste time making Britain strong, especially in the Americas. I'd probably just disband the entire military over there to make my life a lot easier when I became the Colonies...
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I just see it as being a tad abusable.
Well the caveat is that emergent factions only *might* show up -- and then only under the right circumstances/conditions. So if you're playing as Britain and you deliberately sabotage yourself in an effort to get the U.S. or the Irish to emerge....but then that faction fails to appear, you'll have done a great deal of damage to your own faction for no gain.
In any case, I think we're jumping the gun on this issue. As I just said, there's been absolutely no indication from CA that these emergent factions will even be playable (except for the U.S.).
Actually, aside from the 13 Colonies, I've not heard anything about being able to play emergent factions. It would be great if we could, of course, but thus far CA hasn't said anything about whether or not we can play as them.
What -- do you have a death wish?? Because I guarantee food poisoning would be in your future if I were to make you a cake. ~;p
Well the caveat is that emergent factions only *might* show up -- and then only under the right circumstances/conditions. So if you're playing as Britain and you deliberately sabotage yourself in an effort to get the U.S. or the Irish to emerge....but then that faction fails to appear, you'll have done a great deal of damage to your own faction for no gain.
In any case, I think we're jumping the gun on this issue. As I just said, there's been absolutely no indication from CA that these emergent factions will even be playable (except for the U.S.).
What could you possibly gain from letting the United States emerge if you are playing as GB?
Megas Methuselah
11-24-2008, 01:11
Actually, aside from the 13 Colonies, I've not heard anything about being able to play emergent factions. It would be great if we could, of course, but thus far CA hasn't said anything about whether or not we can play as them.
... No... Way. I've been hearing so much about civil wars and political uprisings in this forum (i.e. This (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108117)) that it would be an utter dissapointment from not being able to play as emergent factions. Sure, maybe we won't be able to play as an Irish emergent faction or something, but we HAVE to be able to be given the option to pick sides in a political uprising that determine your faction's form of government!
~:mecry:
I am also in the opinion of Martok gifting me a cake, no matter the consequence.
What could you possibly gain from letting the United States emerge if you are playing as GB?
Well I imagine folks who want to play as the U.S., if nothing else....
... No... Way. I've been hearing so much about civil wars and political uprisings in this forum (i.e. This (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=108117)) that it would be an utter dissapointment from not being able to play as emergent factions. Sure, maybe we won't be able to play as an Irish emergent faction or something, but we HAVE to be able to be given the option to pick sides in a political uprising that determine your faction's form of government!
~:mecry:
I am also in the opinion of Martok gifting me a cake, no matter the consequence.
I think we're suffering from a miscommunication here:
When I talk about emergent factions, I'm referring to those that can become their own separate country (U.S., Ireland, Scotland, etc.). It is *those* factions that -- with the aforementioned exception of the United States -- I have doubts as to whether or not they'll be playable.
If your faction has a civil war or revolution, however, then yes we'll get to choose which side we want to play as. That's not changed. ~:)
Polemists
11-24-2008, 05:38
You'd think with it pratically being December and there game coming out early early Feburary we could at least get some confirmation on game features.
I mean come next monday it's 6 days and 2 months and the game releases.
I mean for a while it was great with screenshots, and dev diaries and what not, but then it all kinda died.
I mean yes, knowing we can build a trade house is fascinating but how about confirming game features :P
Megas Methuselah
11-24-2008, 07:14
If your faction has a civil war or revolution, however, then yes we'll get to choose which side we want to play as. That's not changed.
:jumping::jumping::jumping:
(:cake:)
You'd think with it pratically being December and there game coming out early early Feburary we could at least get some confirmation on game features.
I mean come next monday it's 6 days and 2 months and the game releases.
I mean for a while it was great with screenshots, and dev diaries and what not, but then it all kinda died.
I mean yes, knowing we can build a trade house is fascinating but how about confirming game features :P
I'm not sure how much stock to put in it, but one of the administrators over at the official forums said CA is supposed to be releasing the 4th gameplay movie next Friday. Apparently, it's going to focus on the new diplomatic system.
If this is indeed the case, then I will be very much looking forward to it. :jumping:
Polemists
11-24-2008, 08:19
So are we talking Friday Nov 28 or Dec 5 friday?
That sounds AWESOME.
Hopefully that will answer most of my remaining questions.
I'm also hoping Dev Diary 5, cause i think we only get 5 will cover Governments, Rebellions, etc.
official forums said
Maybe, but I still think our forums beat the official forums anyday of the week :P
I mean for a while it was great with screenshots, and dev diaries and what not, but then it all kinda died.
I smell release push-backs...
Polemists
11-24-2008, 09:30
I dunno, I don't think CA has been to bad on release date delays in the past.
Did shogun have a delay? or some other total war game?
To my knowledge I can't remeber any significant release delays.
So are we talking Friday Nov 28 or Dec 5 friday?
Nov. 28, apparently. I'll still believe it when I see it, but I remain cautiously optimistic. ~:)
Polemists
11-24-2008, 12:23
woot time to do the Empire total war dance of joy :)
Megas Methuselah
11-24-2008, 22:21
I dunno, I don't think CA has been to bad on release date delays in the past.
Did shogun have a delay? or some other total war game?
To my knowledge I can't remeber any significant release delays.
If they feel the game needs to be delayed, then so be it. I'd rather have a playable game than a rushed, buggy one.
I dunno, I don't think CA has been to bad on release date delays in the past.
Did shogun have a delay? or some other total war game?
To my knowledge I can't remeber any significant release delays.
Apparently, Rome was delayed a full year. It was supposedly originally slated for 2003, but CA requested more time (which Activision granted).
And I second Methuselah: I'd rather CA took their time and I wait another 6 months, if that meant the game would be reasonably bug-free. :yes:
Mailman653
11-25-2008, 03:50
I'll take the buggy game and a day one patch :laugh4: Every game has bugs, some are worse than others.
Polemists
11-25-2008, 06:17
yea, as much as I want a good game, I do want a game. Sometmes developers over do it with the whole release date delay thing.
Well in one article I remeber it was predicted Empire Total War was coming out Mar 08, so I guess you could say they delayed this a year to lol, though they did say that article was wrong.
The game looks plenty playable so i'm not to worried.
I'll take the buggy game and a day one patch :laugh4:
You wouldn't necessarily say that, depending on how buggy a game actually is. Also, CA has never released a day-one patch for a Total War title -- it usually takes them several weeks (if not months) to do so -- so I would be awfully surprised if they had a release-day patch for Empire.
Given that, I would *much* rather they take their time and get it right. :yes:
The game looks plenty playable so i'm not to worried.
Unfortunately, that's not a good barometer by which to measure things: Just because it *looks* playable, doesn't mean that it actually is. Rome looked very playable in 2003, yet it was still buggy when it was released a year later. Many would say the same about Medieval 2.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm still looking forward to ETW. But there's a good reason why I won't purchase it until at least the first patch is released. (Indeed, that's pretty much my policy for all the games I buy now.)
Polemists
11-25-2008, 08:08
Well I think that depends who you are. This community is very critical, in a good way, so they see the flaws in a game and write e-mails, and patch.
The large part of casual gamers though don't do much with games (they don't mod them, they don't apply mods, and they only patch if it's a online process, aka game pops up telling you there is a newer version and to patch.)
I thought RTW and MTW2 were both playable and just fine, I never thought they had almost any bugs, and recieved very high reviews and very few mentions of bugs by reviewers.
I'm sure there will be bugs when it releases, there's always some, you can't stop that. If the game is playable though, and fun, it's probably just fine by me, for those of you who will wait until a patch, your not even getting it on release day so it hardly matters the condition they release it in since you'll wait until they fix it. My thoughts.
Oh and what's up with the Empire Total War newsletter, I don't think i've got any of them in the past couple months, are they just not coming?
Sheogorath
11-25-2008, 20:47
Fortunately, CA doesn't seem to be the sort of company that releases unplayably glitched/broken games. While, given, they tend to have balance issues and some annoying bugs, they're usually good enough to entertain without crashing every ten minutes.
I, myself, was quite pleased with MTW2 on day one.
Sir Beane
12-04-2008, 02:34
The Dutch have been confirmed, and added to the OP. Also I threw in the minimum system specs for good measure.
United Provinces
The United Provinces are a Protestant stronghold in North-western Europe, a place where science, trade and freedom of thought have flourished since the Spanish were driven out in the last century. Having tamed their land and held back the sea, the Dutch have also embraced the sea and become the foremost naval power in the world. A mere generation ago, the Dutch navy sailed into the Thames and burned the English fleet at anchor: this kind of bravado and expertise is not quickly forgotten.
Dutch merchantmen range across the world’s oceans, and the wealth of the world passes through Dutch ports. Dutchmen can be found trading in the Indies, where they give the locals a run for their money, and the Caribbean. They are everywhere, in fact, where there is a profit to be made. Spanish claims to the New World and its trade are cheerfully ignored, as are Spanish threats. The Dutch have learned to live with Hapsburg threats hanging over their heads. Having beaten off brutal attempts to bring them to heel, the Dutch now have little love for Hapsburg-ruled Spain or Austria. A distant Catholic emperor holds no appeal for them. An expansionist France, on the other hand, does bear watching, and guarding against.
Other rivals close at hand are now less of a threat than they used to be. The British have been… tamed is too strong a word… brought to their senses by having a good, honest Dutchman on their throne. William III of Orange was an acceptable Protestant ruler for the British when they needed one. His presence has done much to calm relations, especially as the equally-mercantile British have designs on world trade that should rightfully be Dutch!
For the future, the Dutch have much to be hopeful about. They have a strong navy, and a tradition of victory. There is wealth aplenty in every corner of the world, if only the Dutch have the will to go and take it!
Here are the minimum specs for Empire: Total War:
2.4Ghz single core processor
256MB Gfx card (DX9 compaitble)
1GB RAM (For XP, 2GB if using Vista)
Sir Beane
12-10-2008, 12:40
Russia has been confirmed! Rejoice all you Russophiles. :beam: This should make Monk happy.
Russia
“Muscovy”, as its rulers have previously called it, is a sleeping giant, with age-old traditions and ways of doing things. Here, the feudal way of life has become so entrenched that the serfs are as tied to the land as cattle, and with almost as few rights. It is a vast, deeply conservative and religious country: Mother Russia and the Orthodox Church are the two pillars of national belief. The Tsar may be the father of his people, but by tradition and practice he is a stern parent. Ivan the Terrible was well named, and he has not been the only ruler with an iron will. Russia needs a strong hand controlling the “Third Rome”, the true home of Christianity (according to the Orthodox Church) after the fall of Byzantium.
Now, however, Russia is changing, awakening. It is beginning to look outwards, towards the best that the rest of the world has to offer in terms of ideas, culture and might. These things must be introduced carefully, to avoid the ills of free-thinking that beset some Western nations. When Russia does fully realise its strength, however, it will be formidable indeed. It has boundless resources to draw upon, and the steadfast courage of its people to bolster its armies. It can be a formidable foe, and a difficult one for an enemy to attack. One thing that Russia does have is endless space, and the lack of apparently defensible frontiers actually becomes a defence in itself. Invaders can be lured deep into the steppes, and left to the mercies of “General Winter” and Russia’s endless, empty lands.
To the west lies the wealth of Europe and access to the wider world through a port on the Baltic. That the troublesome Swedes are in the way is a bonus, for they will have to be crushed! To the south, there are fellow Slavs and Orthodox Christians in the Balkans to be incorporated into a Greater Russian empire. The infidel Turks have lands and wealth aplenty too, but possibly the strength to defend them.
And beyond, there is a wider world awaiting conquest by the sons of the Mother Russia.
Sir Beane
12-10-2008, 12:43
Ack no! A double post! But it seems it can't be helped.
After a drought of new info CA have released some another 3D unit over at the Official Site. Ladies and gentlemen I present to you:
Mamluks
Mamluks are fearless light horsemen, deadly when deployed against a broken or unsupported enemy.
Mounted on tireless light horses and armed with scimitars, they are commonly employed to harass an enemy force, restricting its space to manoeuvre easily. Once battle is fully joined, they will often time their charges to coincide with those of a supporting infantry unit, seeking to break the enemy quickly then wreaking havoc amongst them as they flee.
Mamluks were traditionally slave soldiers of the various caliphs and sultans of the Middle Ages, captured as children and raised in the Islamic faith to provide their master with a force of men unconnected to any other part of the hierarchy. Over time, the Mamluks accrued power of their own and even went as far as seizing control of Egypt; they founded a Mamluk Sultanate in 1250. Though the Mamluks’ strength enabled the Sultanate to repel several invasions by Christian crusaders and Mongols, it was eventually overpowered by the Ottoman Empire in 1517. The Mamluks so came into the service of the Sublime Porte.
And we also have a new Russian faction feature!
Russia
“Muscovy”, as its rulers have previously called it, is a sleeping giant, with age-old traditions and ways of doing things. Here, the feudal way of life has become so entrenched that the serfs are as tied to the land as cattle, and with almost as few rights. It is a vast, deeply conservative and religious country: Mother Russia and the Orthodox Church are the two pillars of national belief. The Tsar may be the father of his people, but by tradition and practice he is a stern parent. Ivan the Terrible was well named, and he has not been the only ruler with an iron will. Russia needs a strong hand controlling the “Third Rome”, the true home of Christianity (according to the Orthodox Church) after the fall of Byzantium.
Now, however, Russia is changing, awakening. It is beginning to look outwards, towards the best that the rest of the world has to offer in terms of ideas, culture and might. These things must be introduced carefully, to avoid the ills of free-thinking that beset some Western nations. When Russia does fully realise its strength, however, it will be formidable indeed. It has boundless resources to draw upon, and the steadfast courage of its people to bolster its armies. It can be a formidable foe, and a difficult one for an enemy to attack. One thing that Russia does have is endless space, and the lack of apparently defensible frontiers actually becomes a defence in itself. Invaders can be lured deep into the steppes, and left to the mercies of “General Winter” and Russia’s endless, empty lands.
To the west lies the wealth of Europe and access to the wider world through a port on the Baltic. That the troublesome Swedes are in the way is a bonus, for they will have to be crushed! To the south, there are fellow Slavs and Orthodox Christians in the Balkans to be incorporated into a Greater Russian empire. The infidel Turks have lands and wealth aplenty too, but possibly the strength to defend them.
And beyond, there is a wider world awaiting conquest by the sons of the Mother Russia.
Six down and six two go! Who will make the cut? Will it be the sleeping giant Wales? The ever popular and powerful Falkand Islands? Or maybe a suprise comeback by the old favourite The Republic of Easter Island and Other Places Named After Holidays?
I'm so excited!
Mailman653
12-10-2008, 15:38
"General winter"......does that mean weather will actualy play a big role in planning a campaign? There is a huge difference between invading Russia in the spring than the winter.
Sir Beane
12-10-2008, 16:06
"General winter"......does that mean weather will actualy play a big role in planning a campaign? There is a huge difference between invading Russia in the spring than the winter.
Maybe it does mean weather will play a bigger role, however it's just as likely that it's a throwaway comment to add flavour to the faction feature. Since weather has never previously been much of a factor, and since no preview or interview so far has mentioned it, I wouldn't get your hopes up.
Sheogorath
12-10-2008, 16:25
Huzzah!
I do hope they don't go overboard with 'General Winter', if that is an actual in-game effect.
But I also don't want to end up in another argument about it. :|
Sheogorath
12-10-2008, 16:29
"General winter"......does that mean weather will actualy play a big role in planning a campaign? There is a huge difference between invading Russia in the spring than the winter.
Quite.
In the spring you have torrential downpours and calf-deep mud. ;)
As I've said in other places, General Winter is typically a poor sideshow to Generals Overconfidence and Underestimation.
He just wears a fancier uniform than those two.
Mailman653
12-10-2008, 16:42
I thought Sargent Pepper had the fancier uniform?
Megas Methuselah
12-10-2008, 22:05
I wonder if their uniforms are going to be green or (ugh) brown... :dizzy2:
Noncommunist
12-10-2008, 22:10
Huzzah!
I do hope they don't go overboard with 'General Winter', if that is an actual in-game effect.
But I also don't want to end up in another argument about it. :|
How would they even do it as an actual in game effect? Would it simply involve destruction of large parts of armies that wander into Russia during winter?
Sol Invictus
12-10-2008, 22:39
Russia should be a fun faction. I hope that CA includes some sort of attrition effect for all armies and to a greater degree in Russia.
The_Doctor
12-10-2008, 22:44
I do hope they don't go overboard with 'General Winter', if that is an actual in-game effect.
I hope there is a button you press and it starts snowing and then the snow forms together into a giant Russian(General Winter) that starts attacking the enemy army.:laugh4:
Wow, I'm surprised Monk hasn't already shown up drunk, singing Russian! Ah well, once he sobers up I'm sure he'll properly celebrate. ~D
I do hope that the season plays a larger factor this time around. Russia could probably use winter's help....
Merged thread with "3D Units and Faction Info" thread.
sassbarman
12-11-2008, 00:13
How would they even do it as an actual in game effect? Would it simply involve destruction of large parts of armies that wander into Russia during winter?
movement and moral.
Sheogorath
12-11-2008, 00:42
I thought Sargent Pepper had the fancier uniform?
General Winter gets all the credit, so he gets all the medals :P
I wonder if their uniforms are going to be green or (ugh) brown... :dizzy2:
Ugh indeed. I hope CA doesn't give the Russians brown uniforms. That would be the equivalent of making the British wear orange or something.
How would they even do it as an actual in game effect? Would it simply involve destruction of large parts of armies that wander into Russia during winter?
Attrition amoung units, morale lowering, speed slowing...but then, you'd have to do that for spring too (for the rain and mud). And lower morale and cause attrition during Summer too (for the heat).
I hope there is a button you press and it starts snowing and then the snow forms together into a giant Russian(General Winter) that starts attacking the enemy army.:laugh4:
It would be even better if the Japanese were represented and could attack with giant samurai robots that transform into hot air balloons :P
They can all fight the Indians elephants and the thirteen colonies cowboys.
Polemists
12-13-2008, 07:04
Ugh indeed. I hope CA doesn't give the Russians brown uniforms. That would be the equivalent of making the British wear orange or something.
Yea i mean that would be like a Parthian Army dressed in entirely purple, crazy. That would never happen. :laugh4:
Sheogorath
12-13-2008, 08:15
Yea i mean that would be like a Parthian Army dressed in entirely purple, crazy. That would never happen. :laugh4:
They looked pretty FABULOUS for all that, though :laugh4:
Megas Methuselah
12-13-2008, 22:21
But brown doesn't carry purple's liveliness. Brown is just... depressing.
Polemists
12-14-2008, 06:43
Wasn 't the axe wielding german faction of Rome in brown? I don't recall anyone complaining then :laugh4:
Wasn 't the axe wielding german faction of Rome in brown? I don't recall anyone complaining then :laugh4:
No, they were an interesting dark shade of Red :laugh4:
Polemists
12-14-2008, 12:21
Hey i'm just hoping not to have forests of banner flags in my army this time around.
As for colors, there are 12 factions, the color spectrum isn't that big. Somebody's got to get a sucky color :P
Megas Methuselah
12-14-2008, 22:38
You may be right, but Russia, historically, has green uniforms. Give brown to the Sardinians or something. You can't rob Russia of their trademark colour.
Sheogorath
12-14-2008, 22:42
A rather snazzy green/red combination, until they adopted Prussian-style uniforms. Christmasy ;)
But yeah, give brown to a minor faction. As one of the Big Five, Russia hardly deserves a second-rate uniform color.
Mailman653
12-15-2008, 19:14
New ship is on the website, the Razee (http://www.sega.com/empire/units/?id=2)
Sir Beane
12-15-2008, 21:47
Just like Mailman said:
Razee
A razee is a robust frigate, created by cutting the top deck off a larger ship of the line.
Frigates are a vital part of any balanced sea-going fleet. They are cruisers that can operate independently and are swift enough to hunt down enemy merchantmen. the chance for prize money makes them popular postings among officers and men alike!
One way of creating a large, powerful frigate is to take a two-deck ship of the line and, in effect, saw off the top deck creating a single-deck frigate. The first result is that a 64-gun ship can now only carry 44 guns, but the ones that remain are the heavier than those normally found on a frigate, typically 32- or 24-pounders rather than the expected 18s! The second result is that the razee retains the strong timbers of the original 64, making it a robust ship in combat. Thirdly, having lost its upper works, the new ship generally handles rather well under sail. All this work takes time and valuable dock space, of course.
Historically, one of the most successful razees was HMS Indefatigable, commanded by Edward Pellew. In the company of another frigate, Pellew took on - and defeated - the Droits de l'Homme, a French 74, in 1797. During the next year or so, Pellew and the Indefatigable went on to take a further nine vessels.
Aemilius Paulus
12-16-2008, 05:22
Historically, grenadier regiments and battalions began as ad hoc assault forces. All line infantry regiments had grenadier companies; collecting these sub-units gave commanders a useful group of heavily armed, aggressive and skilful soldiers. Grenadier companies remained in line infantry regiments after the creation of grenadier regiments, but they abandoned grenades. Instead, each grenadier company became a “heavy mob” of the biggest and strongest soldiers in a regiment.
Wow, I'm impressed with CA's sudden shift to historical accuracy. Looks like they're really staying true to the promise. For gameplay reasons, it could have been much more feasible to just let the grenadiers throw grenades, however inaccurate it may have been for late to middle 1700s.
Sheogorath
12-16-2008, 07:17
Wow, I'm impressed with CA's sudden shift to historical accuracy. Looks like they're really staying true to the promise. For gameplay reasons, it could have been much more feasible to just let the grenadiers throw grenades, however inaccurate it may have been for late to middle 1700s.
I always hated that in games set in the 17/1800's. 'Grenadiers' ALWAYS throw grenades. They did it in Civilization, and pretty much every one of those 'stone age->future' RTS'.
I hate grenades. Give me badass hats and awesome 'staches and the ability to watch my men gut lesser soldiers like fishes.
And furthermore, GIVE US SOME MORE INFO ON LAND UNITS, GUYS. C'MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON.
And furthermore, GIVE US SOME MORE INFO ON LAND UNITS, GUYS. C'MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON.
What I hope is that I can stare at NTW2's unit roster and not need to look at Info at the site to know whats in ETW. Then I'll know it will be a good game :2thumbsup:
Megas Methuselah
12-16-2008, 07:30
:idea2:
I wonder if, as a Native American faction, I can capture a lone Razee with a stack of canoes or something and incorporate the technology into my own, thus enabling me to eventually build up an impressive fleet...
Give me badass hats and awesome 'staches and the ability to watch my men gut lesser soldiers like fishes.
:yes:
If nothing else, this should be the era of awesome facial hair.
I wonder if, alongside all the machine guns, ironclads and repeating rifles, one of the key military technologies it will be possible to develop ahead of time given sufficient resources will be the sideburn?
:disguise:
Sir Beane
12-16-2008, 18:58
:idea2:
I wonder if, as a Native American faction, I can capture a lone Razee with a stack of canoes or something and incorporate the technology into my own, thus enabling me to eventually build up an impressive fleet...
I hope so. I really really hope so. Imagine the situation. Out of nowhere the pride of the British fleet is swarmed by stack after stack of lowly Native war canoes. Eventually the crew succumb to fatigue and numbers and the ship falls.
A year or so later and the European powers have been driven from the North American continent. The mighty Iroquois navy with its top of the ling first rate, 100 gun war canoes is threatening shipping in the Indies.
Five years after that the first of the Native American armies lands on the coast of France. The french buckle from this suprise attack on their homeland.
Thirty years after the first ship fell all Europe bows before the mighty Warchief, buffalo roam freely across the countryside of Prussia. The age of empires never happens and the world lives in a golden age where mankind lives in harmony with nature.
Or something like that :laugh4:
I hope so. I really really hope so. Imagine the situation. Out of nowhere the pride of the British fleet is swarmed by stack after stack of lowly Native war canoes. Eventually the crew succumb to fatigue and numbers and the ship falls.
A year or so later and the European powers have been driven from the North American continent. The mighty Iroquois navy with its top of the ling first rate, 100 gun war canoes is threatening shipping in the Indies.
Five years after that the first of the Native American armies lands on the coast of France. The french buckle from this suprise attack on their homeland.
Thirty years after the first ship fell all Europe bows before the mighty Warchief, buffalo roam freely across the countryside of Prussia. The age of empires never happens and the world lives in a golden age where mankind lives in harmony with nature.
Or something like that :laugh4:
I actually did just that. I Conquered the entire world except the natives in America, then I gave the world to them except for Great Brittain. Just to see what would happen. It seems that it was a tactical error (duh) because even though they were happy to have been given the world, they apparently saw little meaning in my existence and exterminated me a few rounds later.
Sir Beane
12-16-2008, 19:13
I actually did just that. I Conquered the entire world except the natives in America, then I gave the world to them except for Great Brittain. Just to see what would happen. It seems that it was a tactical error (duh) because even though they were happy to have been given the world, they apparently saw little meaning in my existence and exterminated me a few rounds later.
Some people just don't know how to show gratitude. :laugh4: Maybe all the new found power went to their heads?
Mailman653
12-19-2008, 18:35
Spain (http://www.sega.com/empire/gameinfo/factions.php?id=21)
Fisherking
12-19-2008, 20:16
One could get the impression that this game is lacking in depth, with only three ships, three land units, two buildings, and two technologies to divide up among these seven listed factions.:dizzy2:
Of course the unspecified March date could easily slide to April Fools’ Day too…:smash:
Megas Methuselah
12-19-2008, 21:19
Oh nice, Spain! Thanks, Mailman (heh heh, your username suits you well).
The Spanish have a long been conquerors and colonisers in distant parts. Indeed, the Spanish and Portuguese signed a treaty in 1494 that neatly divided the world between themselves. The Spanish went conquering “for God, Spain and to get rich”. They succeeded, to a great degree, in all three aims.
Spain is a staunchly Catholic country, and the Church and the fearsome Spanish Inquisition still have their hold over men’s hearts. This partly explains why, for all its wealth, Spain is economically backward: the Church sees usury (money lending) as sinful. This may be so, but this lack of credit does not help the merchant classes. Economic growth is also not helped when it is beneath the dignity of any hidalgo gentleman to earn money or work. But a gentleman’s honour is worth defending and a nation’s glory is worth winning, so courage is not in short supply. Indeed, Spain is blessed with courageous men on both land and sea.
That Spain will need defending, and soon, is self-evident to many. Charles II, “El Hechizado” or “the Bewitched” is a feeble-minded and pathetic figure, a shadow of his Hapsburg ancestors, and childless. Spain has suffered from his weakness of mind and government, but Charles cannot live forever. When he dies, what forces will shape the destiny of the Empire? Will Spain once again face its Protestant rivals down? Will new there be a new generation of conquistadores to plant the Spanish flag on distant shores? His successor will have much to ponder, but a brave nation to lead back to greatness!
Well, this is pretty cool. It's nice hearing about the handicapped king, too. :yes:
Of course the unspecified March date could easily slide to April Fools’ Day too… :smash:
Yeah, and the'll say the April release was an April Fools' Day joke and delay it 'till May. :clown:
I wouldn't mind. May ain't so bad...
Sir Beane
12-19-2008, 21:54
Nooo! Every time I spend a day away from the PC CA go and update the info, thus leading to someone else having to update my thread for me.
I apologise for making Mailman do all the work.
Megas Methuselah
12-19-2008, 22:05
I apologise for making Mailman do all the work.
What about me? I quoted the damned thing. :clown:
Sir Beane
12-19-2008, 22:08
What about me? I quoted the damned thing. :clown:
My apologies. You make a strong case. Your medal is in the mail. In the unlikely event that it doesn't arrive I would like you to know that it was big, gold, wondefully shiny with pretty ribbon to top it off and a big red stone in the middle. :laugh4:
Megas Methuselah
12-19-2008, 22:09
My apologies. You make a strong case. Your medal is in the mail. In the unlikely event that it doesn't arrive I would like you to know that it was big, gold, wondefully shiny with pretty ribbon to top it off and a big red stone in the middle. :laugh4:
*oblivious to obvious sarcasm*
As it should be. :snobby:
Sir Beane
12-19-2008, 22:15
Sarcasm? You wound me sir, I'm deadly serious.
On a side note I wonder if CA will throw us a complete curveball and announce someone out of the blue as a playable faction.
I have my fingers crossed for the Khanate of the Crimea, or The Empire of Fez and Morocco, or even the mighty Empire of the Rock of Gibraltar and other Rocks the British Own and the Spaniards Want.
Of course the next one will probably be Mughal India or the Austria.
Sheogorath
12-20-2008, 02:21
Gibraltar was still Spanish in 1700 ;)
Brits gotta wait until 1713 to take it :P
Fisherking
12-20-2008, 10:24
St. Petersburg wasn’t there either but I am pretty sure it starts off as a Provencal Capital. A Swedish one to boot.:laugh4:
Sir Beane
12-20-2008, 13:14
Gibraltar was still Spanish in 1700 ;)
Brits gotta wait until 1713 to take it :P
Well damn. I should have thought about that. I know what I'm doing when I first play the game as the English now. That' assuming of course thet Gibraltar is in the game, which is sadly unlikely.
Sheogorath
12-20-2008, 16:31
St. Petersburg wasn’t there either but I am pretty sure it starts off as a Provencal Capital. A Swedish one to boot.:laugh4:
St. Petersburg didn't even EXIST. Sort of like Washington DC, it's built on a spot that is definitely NOT ideal for citybuilding. It's basically a swamp. Or was, rather. Now it's mostly city :P
Regardless, it was entirely built on the whim of Peter.
But, if my theory is correct, we're going to start out with Muscovy (AKA: Brown Russia), which will turn into Imperial Russia (AKA: Green Russia) in 1721. Or something like that. I hope. It'd be cool, anyway :P
However, I think the area was under Russian occupation by that point. I guess it depends on whether or not Russia and Sweden start out at war.
Well damn. I should have thought about that. I know what I'm doing when I first play the game as the English now. That' assuming of course thet Gibraltar is in the game, which is sadly unlikely.
You could still invade Spain :P
St. Petersburg didn't even EXIST. Sort of like Washington DC, it's built on a spot that is definitely NOT ideal for citybuilding. It's basically a swamp. Or was, rather. Now it's mostly city :P
Regardless, it was entirely built on the whim of Peter.
But, if my theory is correct, we're going to start out with Muscovy (AKA: Brown Russia), which will turn into Imperial Russia (AKA: Green Russia) in 1721. Or something like that. I hope. It'd be cool, anyway :P
However, I think the area was under Russian occupation by that point. I guess it depends on whether or not Russia and Sweden start out at war.
You could still invade Spain :P
Interesting theory. Do you think it would be more related to the current government you choose to utilize as Russia? Do you think there is enough historical uniform changes that would justify other factions having this neat ability? And it's a small hope, but I hope that my units colors do not change instantaneously when it hits 1721 (or you switch government types) and that I can have brown troops and green ones on the field :beam:.
Sir Beane
12-20-2008, 21:10
Interesting theory. Do you think it would be more related to the current government you choose to utilize as Russia? Do you think there is enough historical uniform changes that would justify other factions having this neat ability? And it's a small hope, but I hope that my units colors do not change instantaneously when it hits 1721 (or you switch government types) and that I can have brown troops and green ones on the field :beam:.
We may see this in relation to a faction changing from Monarchy to Constitutional Monarchy to a full Republic. Uniform shifts could represent a change away from 'Royal' units to 'Republican' ones, or the other way around of course.
For instance if during the course of the game the US somehow manages to become a Monarchy, you would expect to see the uniform change a little to reflect the new flag and government. At least I hope so.
New uniforms may also be part of the tech tree. Fancier hats to boost morale!
@ Sheo
Oh, I'm sure Spain will be getting a visit from me. And France. And Austria. And Russia, Italy, Turkey, Prussia, India... you get the idea :P
Sir Beane
12-25-2008, 19:21
Damn, double post again :( This wouldn't happen if people were replying :whip::laugh4:.
On the plus side I actually managed to post something first this time.
There's a fancy festive wallpaper over at the Official Site. Go check it out, christmas cheer guranteed. :beam:
Megas Methuselah
12-25-2008, 20:39
About the uniform changed, didn't the French uniforms change from white/grey to blue during La Revolution?
Sheogorath
12-25-2008, 22:55
Well, not EXACTLY in 1721, obviously. I guess it really depends on their system.
But certainly a uniform change would be warranted, as, entering the 18th century, Russia still had a lot of old Streltsy (essentially equivalent to the Ottoman Janissary Corps) units. Peter really didn't like these guys and there were some significant purges.
The big difference, in this case, is that Peter's regiments wore Western-style uniforms, whereas the Streltsy had traditional Slavic uniforms.
But, hopefully, there will be a mechanism to switch from Muscovy to Imperial Russia. Since the change was quite significant, even if it mostly happened prior to the actual official shift
Furthermore, you should be able to recruit Steltsy and Western-style regiments at the same time initially, although, historically, the Streltsy were no match at all for Peter's modern, western, regiments.
Sir Beane
12-26-2008, 12:45
Well, not EXACTLY in 1721, obviously. I guess it really depends on their system.
But certainly a uniform change would be warranted, as, entering the 18th century, Russia still had a lot of old Streltsy (essentially equivalent to the Ottoman Janissary Corps) units. Peter really didn't like these guys and there were some significant purges.
The big difference, in this case, is that Peter's regiments wore Western-style uniforms, whereas the Streltsy had traditional Slavic uniforms.
But, hopefully, there will be a mechanism to switch from Muscovy to Imperial Russia. Since the change was quite significant, even if it mostly happened prior to the actual official shift
Furthermore, you should be able to recruit Steltsy and Western-style regiments at the same time initially, although, historically, the Streltsy were no match at all for Peter's modern, western, regiments.
I would love to see the kind of subtle change and overlap between old and new regimes that your post describes!
I'm really worried that the shift between government styles will be far too abrupt, sort of like Lithunaia converting to christianity in Medieval 2. We shouldn't just be able to click our fingers and go 'sorry guys, no more monarchy for you, I won the war and we're a Republic now' and have all the old Royal buildings, units and uniforms just suddenly disappear.
It would be nice to see veteran units wearing old uniforms or bits of old uniform on the battle map, as a sign of their experienced status :2thumbsup:
Also I'm a bit foggy on the subject but didn't Western rulers at the time have a tendancy to have a new uniform for each new campaign they started? It would be nice to see my units get a change of clothes every once in a while based on game time or my prestige increasing.
Sheogorath
12-26-2008, 17:08
I would love to see the kind of subtle change and overlap between old and new regimes that your post describes!
I'm really worried that the shift between government styles will be far too abrupt, sort of like Lithunaia converting to christianity in Medieval 2. We shouldn't just be able to click our fingers and go 'sorry guys, no more monarchy for you, I won the war and we're a Republic now' and have all the old Royal buildings, units and uniforms just suddenly disappear.
It would be nice to see veteran units wearing old uniforms or bits of old uniform on the battle map, as a sign of their experienced status :2thumbsup:
Also I'm a bit foggy on the subject but didn't Western rulers at the time have a tendancy to have a new uniform for each new campaign they started? It would be nice to see my units get a change of clothes every once in a while based on game time or my prestige increasing.
Well, as Terry Pratchett has noted, buildings do instantly change over to new purposes after a successful revolt.
I mean, it really doesn't take that much effort to turn the former royal palace into the Grand Peoples Monument to the Glory of the Worker. All you do is slap some banners on it ;)
People tended to base their uniforms on whoever was most successful in the era...or whoever the liked. I know Tsar Paul, for instance, was a Prussophile and did his very best to turn the Russian army into the Prussian one...or what he thought the Prussian one was, which included uniforms and wigs.
After the Napoleonic Wars, several nations adopted Russian uniforms, though, since back then nobody but the British cared about Waterloo :P
Mailman653
01-06-2009, 23:32
New tech, the Fougasse
(http://www.sega.com/empire/units/?id=4)
Sir Beane
01-07-2009, 00:59
How on Earth are you so quick at finding these things Mailman? :laugh4:
I refresh the page, notice a new tech, rush to the thread to post it and you've already beaten me to it. It's like you have insider knowledge or something :P
Fougasse
This defensive weapon is a landmine constructed by military engineers and fired by the defenders lighting a fuse.
A fougasse consists of a pit, sometimes dug at an angle, with gunpowder packed into the bottom and suitably wrapped to keep it dry. The hole is then backfilled with rubble and stones, taking care not to break the fuse, creating a huge “canister shot” weapon. Any enemies caught by the explosion are blown to smithereens by the blast. Damp, of course, will cause the fougasse to misfire, like any other gunpowder weapon.
Historically, a later and nastier, refinement used a flintlock mechanism to fire the charge. As well as making the explosion more reliable, this allowed military engineers to turn the fougasse into a booby trap. A piece of twine tied to the trigger acted as a tripwire: an unfortunate booby then stumbled and fired the device into himself and his nearby comrades.
During the 20th Century, the fougasse was refined into a flamethrower by burying oil drums on top of the explosives. And at the time of writing, the fougasse remains in use, as only one of the IEDs (improvised explosive device) used by insurgents against occupying forces in Iraq.
So there we have it people, landmines I remember this being quite a controvertial topic when these were first revealed in a preview. What are people's thoughts on them now? Personally I think they will make a very interesting addition to preparing a strong defensive position.
Lets just hope it isn't overused.
Haxorsist
01-07-2009, 18:52
Prussia's confirmed now. I won't do the copy paste because that's Sir Bean's job.
Sheogorath
01-07-2009, 19:08
Landmines :hairpin2:
While certainly used on occasion, the text seems to imply that these things were commonly used. I personally dont recall the French being shredded by flying rubble and buried explosives while charging the Great Redoubt at Borodino (of course, that may simply have been because the Ruskies didn't have enough powder to waste on burying it.)
But, overall, it seems like a silly thing to do, born more of desperation than anything.
Now, if it were limited to poor factions (13 colonies, for example), who couldn't normally afford cannons...that might be realistic, since, to judge from the little snippet, their role is, apparently, to replace grapeshot.
Sir Beane
01-07-2009, 19:43
Heeeere's Prussia. I would have got this to you just seconds after CA updated, it it hadn't been for the fact the Org wasn't working for me :(. There's no real suprise with Prussia, they've been pretty much a dead certain from the start.
Prussia
Prussia itself has only been “German” since the 13th Century, when the Teutonic Knights carved out a new Christian state on the Baltic coast. The present Kingdom of Prussia is a new state, the result of a union between the duchies of Brandenburg and Prussia, and it is a Kingdom only because the current ruler, Elector Frederick III has decided to improve his status to that of King! In doing so, however, he has been careful not to offend the Holy Roman Emperor, the Archduke of Austria, and calls himself the King “in” Prussia, not the King “of” Prussia. The form of words is a fig leaf: Frederick is King. And he is the king of a potentially powerful and influential Protestant nation, a centre of gravity within “the Germanies” for all those who would look elsewhere for a lead than Catholic Austria.
The Prussians believe – not without reason – that their virtues as a people can carry them through any trouble: martial discipline, sacrifice, a sense of order, but this sense of duty should not be confused with ignorance or intolerance, no matter what others may say. Prussians have always had to fight, but that has made them competent, not bloodthirsty. They have the potential to become a great continental power thanks to their martial traditions, many of which can be traced back to the Teutonic Knights. These could form the basis of a truly world-beating army. Under the right guidance, they could unite the German-speaking peoples into a single entity, dominate the Baltic and, perhaps, extend their reach far beyond the confines of Central Europe.
Sol Invictus
01-07-2009, 20:41
YAY! Prussia! After racing through the RTI tutorial Campaign; only to shore up my good American republican bonafides;:elephant: I will change masks to take on the persona of the autocratic, militaristic, and sausage/beer swilling Prussians.~:cheers: Went with the beer because there is no suasage smiley. We really need a sausage smiley.
As for this Fougasse silliness; it smacks of the obligatory KEWL:hippie: tech/unit that CA just can't seem to resist.:thumbsdown: If it were restricted to deployment during a fortification assault that the defender could place in very limited numbers, then I would be completely on board. But of course we will be able to liberally place them in field battles and thus the silliness will ensue.:clown: I will most likely mod them out; along with steamships; as soon as I install the game.:tnt:
Sir Beane
01-07-2009, 20:44
I think landmines are an ok idea providing we are limited to only a few, and only in very specific circumstances. It'sa nice addition for defenders, because it wil let a defending force deny certain areas of the map to the attacking force.
Area denial warfare and channeling your opponent is osmething that has so far been very difficult to pull of in Total War. With artillery that can target the ground, and tricks like landmines and garrisonning buildings, it should be much easier for a defender to set up some really nasty situations.
Sol Invictus
01-07-2009, 20:47
HAA! I knew it! I always pegged Sir Beane as a Fougasse kind of guy.~:pimp:
pdoyle007
01-07-2009, 22:13
Can attacking artillery also target the ground? Could you 'remote detonate' a landmine with cannonfire?
Otherwise the Forlorn Hope is getting called for :help:
Sir Beane
01-07-2009, 22:25
HAA! I knew it! I always pegged Sir Beane as a Fougasse kind of guy.~:pimp:
I'm... I'm really not sure how to take that :laugh4::sweatdrop:
Although I do prefer to fight defensively, and landmines are pretty useful defenses, so I guess I'm more of a landmine guy than say, cavalry, or horse archers. :P
And I think I have read in an article somewhere that cannons and other artillery will be able to target an area of the map as well as individual units, no sure about remote detonation though.
Fisherking
01-07-2009, 22:40
Just quickly, I have not read everything yet but, what I got from the site earlier to day was that little blurb about your ENGINEERS can place them!!!
Did you get that…Sappers, Pioneers, Combat Engineers emplace Fougasse, and indeed the emplacements are still used.
It sounds like FOO-Gas and usually they use napalm.
Sir Beane
01-07-2009, 22:47
Fougasse are indeed still used, and to be totally accurate they aren't actually 'landmines' because they are no pressure activated.
I'm worried that the engineers comment is just a throwaway line, rather than an indication engineers are in game.
Personally I think an unit of specialist combat engineers, sappers, etc.. would be a fantastic way of ensuring fougasse aren't overused. If you could only place them with a sapper unit in your army it would mean you have to sacrifice that slot for an engineer rather than for a more combat effective unit. It means we might have to think more about the content of our armies.
Sheogorath
01-08-2009, 00:37
My impression of combat engineers in this period is that they were basically the guys who were too short/ugly/foreign to get into the grenadiers, and, hence, tended to be a lot meaner :P
Besides, you'd have to be crazy to handle explosives and bombs in that era. I wouldn't want to mess with them.
My impression of combat engineers in this period is that they were basically the guys who were too short/ugly/foreign to get into the grenadiers, and, hence, tended to be a lot meaner :P
Besides, you'd have to be crazy to handle explosives and bombs in that era. I wouldn't want to mess with them.
So that means Napoleon was a combat engineer? My knowledge on the era is not what it should be, although I do hope to educate myself more upon it
Sir Beane
01-08-2009, 00:57
So that means Napoleon was a combat engineer? My knowledge on the era is not what it should be, although I do hope to educate myself more upon it
Napoleon was actually artillery officer, before he became Emperor of France, King of Italy, Protector of the Confederation of the Rhine etc...
Military and political history in this period is fascinating. Mostly because of nationalism and the rise of education and technology, large scale multi-national alliances and Empires. This is certainly the first period in history where warfare reached a truly global scale, it's also probably the first time where the descriptor Total War isn't an exaggeration. :laugh4:
Napoleon was actually artillery officer, before he became Emperor of France, King of Italy, Protector of the Confederation of the Rhine etc...
Military and political history in this period is fascinating. Mostly because of nationalism and the rise of education and technology, large scale multi-national alliances and Empires. This is certainly the first period in history where warfare reached a truly global scale, it's also probably the first time where the descriptor Total War isn't an exaggeration. :laugh4:
True, so thus it is Artillery Officers and Combat Engineers who were too short/ugly/foreign to get into the grenadiers and are meaner, gotcha.
Yes, I would agree, the term Total War does finally reach true usage by this era, especially during the ACW and during both World Wars, countries tended to mobilize all their assets into the war. I believe though it wasn't until the ACW, and by General Sherman himself, that Total War was used as a planned and active strategy.
Sheogorath
01-08-2009, 02:54
Hey, Napoleon was average height for his era :tongueg:
I recall that he did get a lot of flack in school for his funny accent, though.
It should also be mentioned that artillery crews were regarded as quite highly trained in close combat, after all, you gotta defend your piece :gring:
Haxorsist
01-08-2009, 04:05
I think someone from CA said that you could only you use the fougasse when you were defending and had time to prepare your defenses. So maybe only during a siege, and it's kinda like the defensive version of the ram, ladders etc?
Sol Invictus
01-08-2009, 04:31
I think someone from CA said that you could only you use the fougasse when you were defending and had time to prepare your defenses. So maybe only during a siege, and it's kinda like the defensive version of the ram, ladders etc?
I hope it is only placeable when the defender is in a fortress, not in a field battle. In either case, they better be very limited.
Sheogorath
01-08-2009, 04:40
I think someone from CA said that you could only you use the fougasse when you were defending and had time to prepare your defenses. So maybe only during a siege, and it's kinda like the defensive version of the ram, ladders etc?
More of a poor man's cannon. One use, you cant aim it, and it's got a good chance of not working.
Megas Methuselah
01-08-2009, 06:40
I believe though it wasn't until the ACW, and by General Sherman himself, that Total War was used as a planned and active strategy.
Don't forget Napoleonic France's levee-en-masse.
Sir Beane
01-08-2009, 19:49
Don't forget Napoleonic France's levee-en-masse.
I think this was discussed in another, earlier thread but do we know if/how levee-en-masse will be implemented/referenced in game? It would be nice if France got some sort of option for a similar system (or if everyone got the option) maybe as a researchable tech.
Sol Invictus
01-08-2009, 22:32
Maybe levee-en-masse will be a special Tech that Republican governments can research and use only as long as they remain Republican. I really hope that each government type has several special advantages and disadvantages over the other types. The Player's decision on government type should be a very important and difficult one.
I know I'm a little late in responding, but:
Hurrah for Prussia! Can't wait to see what I can do with their army. ~D
The Duke of Brandenbourg and Prussia ... was not King in 1700, but perhaps I should not brizzle to much because of 18 days. :beam:
Prussia was no more autocratic and militaristic and beer drinking in 1700 than most of the other European states. ~;) Perhaps you can alter history and create a non-militaristic Prussia. But I doubt it because the country was so vulnerable and had had so bad experience with aggressive neighbours. Becoming a militaristic state (or a military with a state) might have been inevitable (of course inevitable only if you have a similar eagerness for power as other states)
Sir Beane
01-09-2009, 13:14
Prussia may not have been more militiristic, but CA needs to pick out certain features to make the factions more unique and playable.
It's like an artist drawing a cartoon of a famous person. You exaggerate the well known features in order to make a caricature. CA does the same with factions.
So Prussia becomes very typically 'German' with sausage and beer and military precision, the Dutch become cunning and greedy businessmen out for a good deal, the English become proud and Imperialistic and boat obsessed.
None of these are too far from the truth, and they let CA give the factions a little bit of personality. :2thumbsup:
@ Martok
We don't excuse lateness in this thread. Twenty lines saying you won't do it again! :laugh4:
@ Martok
We don't excuse lateness in this thread. Twenty lines saying you won't do it again! :laugh4:
And where are your 40 lines for being late twice over :wink:?
Seriously though, I bet at least one of these Factions will floor us..one of them...totally unexpected...because, you know, it would be nice to be surprised.
Sir Beane
01-09-2009, 18:19
And where are your 40 lines for being late twice over :wink:?
Seriously though, I bet at least one of these Factions will floor us..one of them...totally unexpected...because, you know, it would be nice to be surprised.
No lines for me :P It's my thread, so I'm exempt... because. :laugh4:
It would be great if the 12th faction revealed was something completely out of nowhere. A Native American Faction, or a South American Faction, or one of the small European states.
Or even better, pirates! I personally would enjoy setting up a pirate nation with its base in the Caribbean. It's not exactly accurate sure, but it would be a lot of frun to truly be playing the bad guy.
No lines for me :P It's my thread, so I'm exempt... because. :laugh4:
It would be great if the 12th faction revealed was something completely out of nowhere. A Native American Faction, or a South American Faction, or one of the small European states.
Or even better, pirates! I personally would enjoy setting up a pirate nation with its base in the Caribbean. It's not exactly accurate sure, but it would be a lot of frun to truly be playing the bad guy.
No one is exempt from the law, not even a threads ruler! Down the the OP, up the revolution!
Speaking of which, when are they truly going to reveal anything about how the government system works? As the keystone of the diplomacy and management system, plus it being totally new, you'd think...they would be able to tell us something about it...
Sir Beane
01-09-2009, 18:32
No one is exempt from the law, not even a threads ruler! Down the the OP, up the revolution!
Speaking of which, when are they truly going to reveal anything about how the government system works? As the keystone of the diplomacy and management system, plus it being totally new, you'd think...they would be able to tell us something about it...
Oh no! I taxed the plebs too hard and abused my power! If I make this thread tax exempt will you all go back to toiling quietly under my rule? I have more important things to do, like taking over the Org sub-forum by sub-forum. :laugh4:
The lack of info about the way government works can mean several things.
1. It doesn't actually work yet.
2. CA don't consider it interesting or mainstream enough to devote preview time to.
3. CA hate politicians as much as I do, and refuse to talk about them. :laugh4:
4. It isn't a very well fleshed out feature, so they don't want people to find out about it until they have bought the game.
5. They simply haven't got around to talking about it yet.
Hopefully we will get some more info in the future.
The fact that only 2 of those options indicate a good and complete game scares me :sweatdrop:
Sir Beane
01-09-2009, 19:15
The fact that only 2 of those options indicate a good and complete game scares me :sweatdrop:
You should be more scared about the soldiers I have heading for your door, revolutionary cur! :laugh4:
I wouldn't worry too much about it, it isn't like I have insider knowledge on how CA works or anything so there could be loads of reasons why we haven't that I don't know about.
Personally I would say number 2 or number 5 are the most likely reasons. Sadly politics and government isn't what attracts new gamers. Big bangs and flashy graphics are what brings new playes in, so thats what CA tends to focus on marketing.
Players come for the epic battles and stay for the campaign map gampelay. (I know thats how I got into the series).
I guess it's because I have been with Total War from the start I am expecting to see such things as diplomacy and Nation management. I'd love to be able to totally reform a government, and to finally make serious executive decisions - Not that I am a politician, but I think the possibilities would be intriguing.
Sir Beane
01-09-2009, 19:50
I guess it's because I have been with Total War from the start I am expecting to see such things as diplomacy and Nation management. I'd love to be able to totally reform a government, and to finally make serious executive decisions - Not that I am a politician, but I think the possibilities would be intriguing.
They would indeed. I'm in the same boat as you. Despite buying Medieval (and then quickly Shogun) for the battles I found myself more interested in the grand campaign than anything else.
That's why when a new game is being released I tend to home in on info about stuff casual fans don't care about. I like to know about the number of provinces, which factions are in, and small touches like naming units or how many units or buildings a city can build per turn.
What with there being three kinds of government this time around I really hope CA make a good job of making them different and unique, each with its own bonuses and challenges. If the only difference between a Monarchy and a Republic is a couple of units and different public order I will be very disappointed.
(On a side note it appears we have apparently taken over the thread between us, hooray for us!)
They would indeed. I'm in the same boat as you. Despite buying Medieval (and then quickly Shogun) for the battles I found myself more interested in the grand campaign than anything else.
That's why when a new game is being released I tend to home in on info about stuff casual fans don't care about. I like to know about the number of provinces, which factions are in, and small touches like naming units or how many units or buildings a city can build per turn.
What with there being three kinds of government this time around I really hope CA make a good job of making them different and unique, each with its own bonuses and challenges. If the only difference between a Monarchy and a Republic is a couple of units and different public order I will be very disappointed.
(On a side note it appears we have apparently taken over the thread between us, hooray for us!)
Exactly - I wonder right now what the hardcoded limits are though, and if there are any :beam:! if not, imagine the possibilities finally! Thinsg modder had to spend hours scripting could be done in the blink of an eye, and I'll be the first one to start grabbing mods for ETW, even if ETW itself is good, because it's the new functionality of the system and game mechanics that I'd love to explore.
And I will win control of this thread! Down with the oppressors! Rise up common people, you have nothing to loose except your chains (and maybe your account privileges if you get to out of hand)!
Sir Beane
01-09-2009, 20:29
Exactly - I wonder right now what the hardcoded limits are though, and if there are any :beam:! if not, imagine the possibilities finally! Thinsg modder had to spend hours scripting could be done in the blink of an eye, and I'll be the first one to start grabbing mods for ETW, even if ETW itself is good, because it's the new functionality of the system and game mechanics that I'd love to explore.
And I will win control of this thread! Down with the oppressors! Rise up common people, you have nothing to loose except your chains (and maybe your account privileges if you get to out of hand)!
We know for a fact that there are now no hardcoded limits on the number of provinces so perhaps we can take that as an indication that other hardcoded limits have been removed? Even with hardcoded limits we still have a huge number of faction slots open for use by mods.
The mod I am most looking forwards to is a Regions and Provinces style mod for Empire. With atleast 50 available faction slots and unlimited provinces, plus multiple cities per province, it gives modders the ability to make a truly huge campaign map.
It will be possible to have a mod focusing on Europe which actually manages to include all of the tiny little factions which previously got ignored or declared as 'rebels'. Each German province can actually be it's own faction!
You'll never gain the support of the commoners! They aren't active enough for organised rebellion :laugh4:
GMaximus
01-09-2009, 21:43
One thing that I dream of all the time is EB for ETW. Just thinking about it can make your head explode from the sheer win-tasticness.
*Insert organized rebellion here*
:clown:
Polemists
01-10-2009, 06:15
Hmmm a few comments.
First not sure exactly the factions will greatly deviate from the known factions. While we all think i'd be nice to see "Random surprise insert faction" so far the list has matched what almost eveyrone guessed early on. As we now have quite a few of the 12 factions the list grows shorter by the week.
The bigger debate I think is still whether the 13 colonies does or does not count as one of the 12 playable factions, which could possibly allow for one more faction then previously thought (if they are not.)
I think there was originally supposed to be a diplomacy, govt, agents dev diary for 4/5, however judging by marketing they probably scrapped that one to do the Road to Independence one, so they could show more cannons, soliders and famous people in a cinematic setting. How knows what the 5th one will be.
I am eager for a demo at this point, hoping for it in Feb sometime with any luck. Of course i'd only be battles but at this point after all this reading it would be nice to actually have something to tool around with. The demo may not come till March of course if they are trying to make it a naval demo but I'd be just as happy with a land battle demo :2thumbsup:
Sheogorath
01-10-2009, 17:37
Each German province can actually be it's own faction!
The problem there might be that in order to map the German states the poor modder would have to sacrifice his sanity to the Outer Gods in order to get all those little teensy states in :tongueg:
On the plus side, you would be able to credit Cthulu as having helped with your mod.
Sir Beane
01-10-2009, 18:00
The problem there might be that in order to map the German states the poor modder would have to sacrifice his sanity to the Outer Gods in order to get all those little teensy states in :tongueg:
On the plus side, you would be able to credit Cthulu as having helped with your mod.
One or two modders ending up in an asylum is a risk I'm willing to take :P
Another period which would benefit is the Roman period. All of the celtic and germanic tribes could be properly represented. No more generic 'Gauls' or 'Britons'.
Thinking about it this has to be one of the most exciting things about Empire.
Just wondering, is everybody aware that Prussia has been officially confirmed? http://www.sega.com/empire/gameinfo/news.php
pdoyle007
01-13-2009, 11:53
From the website today:
European-style tenanted farms
Tenanted farms can only generate so much income from rents. With an increase in town size, and an increased demand from industry for agricultural products, it is more profitable to have herds of animals, not a gaggle of tenants. Meat and wool demand increases rapidly as towns grow. Apart from any other considerations, moving people off land also creates large areas where landowners can indulge a passion for hunting. While this generates little income, it does give social status.
The “Highland Clearances” are probably the most famous example of a forced change to land usage on a large scale. Contrary to popular belief, Highland clan leaders carried out most of the Scottish clearances, driving their own kinsmen and clans into exile. The chieftains needed to pay for the sophisticated life that they could have in Edinburgh and London by reinventing themselves as Scottish gentry. Sheep simply earned more money than the crofters did.
Will there be a '?-style farms' for elsewhere in the world?
Micromanaging settlements from having vast herds (meat, wool, leather production high) or areas left rural for hunting (less resources, highly local prestige?). If you have hunting preserves in an area can you tax the rich more - as you can tax social groups separately?
Ok then, I'll just announce it. Prussia has been confirmed by CA. There we go.
Discoman
01-13-2009, 12:42
Prussia was already announced when it was found out on the 9th of January.
Polemists
01-13-2009, 14:32
I believe the player was indicating that the front page of this thread is meant to be a accurate updated list of units, factions and info over on the official site.
As stands Prussia has still not been added to the list in the first post.
Sir Beane
01-13-2009, 15:17
I believe the player was indicating that the front page of this thread is meant to be a accurate updated list of units, factions and info over on the official site.
As stands Prussia has still not been added to the list in the first post.
Woooops. Sorry about that. It's up there now, always has been and none of you can ever prove otherwise!
Also I added the Tennant Farming to the list. For those of you who missed the copy pasta on the last page let me add it to the new page.
European-style tenanted farms
Tenanted farms can only generate so much income from rents. With an increase in town size, and an increased demand from industry for agricultural products, it is more profitable to have herds of animals, not a gaggle of tenants. Meat and wool demand increases rapidly as towns grow. Apart from any other considerations, moving people off land also creates large areas where landowners can indulge a passion for hunting. While this generates little income, it does give social status.
The “Highland Clearances” are probably the most famous example of a forced change to land usage on a large scale. Contrary to popular belief, Highland clan leaders carried out most of the Scottish clearances, driving their own kinsmen and clans into exile. The chieftains needed to pay for the sophisticated life that they could have in Edinburgh and London by reinventing themselves as Scottish gentry. Sheep simply earned more money than the crofters did.
Nothing too new or interesting here, unless there is someone out there who was convinced that farming wouldn't be in the game. :laugh4:
I've resigned myself to never being the first person to find anything at the Official Site anymore. I'm clearly fated to forever be late with updates :shame:
Megas Methuselah
01-14-2009, 08:09
You could at least give us a link. :laugh4:
Fisherking
01-14-2009, 12:18
You’r joking, right! :jester:
I know that you know there is a link in the second line of the first post.:laugh4:
:clown:
Megas Methuselah
01-15-2009, 04:49
It is a disgrace for little peasants to make a noble such as myself do so much work. :laugh4:
Sir Beane
01-15-2009, 05:19
It is a disgrace for little peasants to make a noble such as myself do so much work. :laugh4:
Forgive us Lord! I've tried whipping them, but they refuse to work any faster. May I suggest we execute a few as examples? That Fisherking chap looks shifty, he'll be the first to go. :laugh4:
It is a disgrace for little peasants to make a noble such as myself do so much work. :laugh4:
Careful whom you call peasant, Meth.
In any case, The Laughing Knight has done us a great service to begin with, and we should thank him enough for that at least. Knights must patrol the realm after all, he can't always hover over the ETW site 24/7...
Sir Beane
01-15-2009, 06:35
Careful whom you call peasant, Meth.
In any case, The Laughing Knight has done us a great service to begin with, and we should thank him enough for that at least. Knights must patrol the realm after all, he can't always hover over the ETW site 24/7...
I try, I really do... but pesky things like sleeping and eating just keep getting in the way of the important stuff :laugh4:
Sir Beane
01-20-2009, 15:23
Hey there folks, I apologise for the double post but we have a new unit! This time no one beat me to it :beam:
http://www.sega.co.uk/empire/units/?id=1
Clansmen
These fierce Highland warriors intimidate all enemies with their wild skirling attacks and barbarous apparel.
Highland clans are the last tribal society in Western Europe. Men fight for their chieftains because they are expected to defend their clans’ honour and lands. They fight for these in the same way that they have done for centuries: with the broadsword and buckler, pistol, and Lochaber axe. There is little that regular line troops find as disturbing as the sight of a clan bearing down on them, screaming their hate and defiance. Highland Scots are brave, hard men.
Historically, the clans were destroyed as a military force at Culloden in 1746, by both British regulars and other, loyalist clansmen. The romance of the clans died on the field, along with a great many men who hurled themselves into a storm of lead and cannonballs armed with nothing more than swords. The clansmen were then repeatedly betrayed and used by their own chiefs, and then eventually driven off the land when sheep became more profitable. Highlanders were forced to scatter across the world, taking their fighting traditions with them.
I guess these guys will be part of the Jacobite forces.
Fisherking
01-20-2009, 15:33
This is a tough one!
The Highlanders were noted for getting the English to fire and duck to ground and come up charging!
If that trick is not available, and I am guessing it is not, then it handicaps their ability as fighter and the fear they caused…
Sir Beane
01-20-2009, 15:41
This is a tough one!
The Highlanders were noted for getting the English to fire and duck to ground and come up charging!
If that trick is not available, and I am guessing it is not, then it handicaps their ability as fighter and the fear they caused…
I'm willing to bet their advantage will lie in extremely high melee attack stats and probably some kind of 'lowers enemy morale' trait. They will probably be the perfect unit for attacking from ambush, or from cover, and charging the enemy before they can deliver a volley.
In melee their claymore and shield would give them a huge advantage over a man with a musket. At range however they have no protection against a musket volley and no means of returning fire.
I can see them being used like this:
Keep them behind a line of musket equipped infantry, or behind some kind of cover (a wall, building, hill, street corner). Once the musket unit has exchanged fire with the enemy the highlanders can charge out of cover and break the weakened enemy line.
They will probably also be very useful for urban combat and assaulting walls and garrisoned buildings.
Polemists
01-20-2009, 15:46
and no means of returning fire.
with the broadsword and buckler, pistol, and Lochaber axe
Not quite true, they do have a pistol, which while hardly a musket or rifle does mean they can fire a shot or two before they charge. I doubt it would do much, but they do have a mean of returning fire if they are pinned. For instance in a building and across the way is a enemy garrison in another building.
At long range though you are correct as a pistol does little.
Sir Beane
01-20-2009, 15:50
Not quite true, they do have a pistol, which while hardly a musket or rifle does mean they can fire a shot or two before they charge. I doubt it would do much, but they do have a mean of returning fire if they are pinned. For instance in a building and across the way is a enemy garrison in another building.
At long range though you are correct as a pistol does little.
I missed that! In that case it does extend their range of uses a little, and gives them a means to do a little damage to a unit at range. :2thumbsup:
I'm still sure that their strength will lie in morale penalties and strong melee however, especially if there is a highlander unit which uses the lochaber axe!
I wonder if there will be one generic highlander unit, or several variations (such as a claymore unit, lochaber axe unit etc.)
On a different note this is good news for modders. I've heard many people complain about there being 'no sword units in game'. Now we know their is a unit that uses a sword and shield and that this will allow for mods set in other time periods.
Megas Methuselah
01-20-2009, 22:19
Lol, Scots...
Fisherking
01-21-2009, 09:32
Lol, Scots...
:creep:Be very careful!:quiet:
The Nova Scotians are coming for YOU! :scared:
:laugh4:
:clock:
Sir Beane
01-21-2009, 12:08
Personally I am pleased to see Scotland appear in game with at least one highland style unit. Scotland's warrior clans are fascinating, especially because they survived for so long in what was otherwise 'civilized' Western Europe.
Modding the game to play as the Scottish and then rampaging across Europe with my clans should show the coffee-drinking, wig-wearing nancy boy gentlemen what REAL warfare is about.
Lots of tough blokes with big swords, shields, and no trousers running each other through with a blade and then going on to pillage a village, topple a town, or conquer a city.
I hope the Scottish get a 'warcry' ability.
"Ye ken tek oor lives but ye ken nev'r tek oor freeeeeeeeeedddooooooooooooooom!" :charge:
It would be worth all the complaints from people who want historical accuracy just to hear a Scottish general yell that and then lead a thundering charge at a the British red line. (Only to be cut down seconds later by cannon fire probably.) :laugh4:
Polemists
01-21-2009, 12:29
Ye ken tek oor lives but ye ken nev'r tek oor freeeeeeeeeedddooooooooooooooom!"
It would be worth all the complaints from people who want historical accuracy just to hear a Scottish general yell that and then lead a thundering charge at a the British red line. (Only to be cut down seconds later by cannon fire probably.)
__________________
Seconded :laugh4:
Fisherking
01-21-2009, 13:33
These and Galloglass were my favorite troops in MTW. (both are actually Scottish by the way, at least in origin)
M2TW nerfed the Scots and the whole foul up with pikemen didn’t help…Also the lack of gunpowder units was a mistake on CAs part, I feel.
In this era a Scotland in rebellion or as its own faction should have a strong industrial base. Look at where the ships, guns, and cannon were manufactured.
Without the brains from Edinburgh and the muscle from Glasgow the British Empire would have been stillborn.
Sheogorath
01-21-2009, 14:29
Personally I am pleased to see Scotland appear in game with at least one highland style unit. Scotland's warrior clans are fascinating, especially because they survived for so long in what was otherwise 'civilized' Western Europe.
Modding the game to play as the Scottish and then rampaging across Europe with my clans should show the coffee-drinking, wig-wearing nancy boy gentlemen what REAL warfare is about.
Lots of tough blokes with big swords, shields, and no trousers running each other through with a blade and then going on to pillage a village, topple a town, or conquer a city.
I hope the Scottish get a 'warcry' ability.
"Ye ken tek oor lives but ye ken nev'r tek oor freeeeeeeeeedddooooooooooooooom!" :charge:
It would be worth all the complaints from people who want historical accuracy just to hear a Scottish general yell that and then lead a thundering charge at a the British red line. (Only to be cut down seconds later by cannon fire probably.) :laugh4:
Fortunately, kilts and claymores have actually been invented in ETW's time period :P
Sir Beane
01-21-2009, 14:42
Fortunately, kilts and claymores have actually been invented in ETW's time period :P
Indeed they were, which gives the Jacobites an added advantage of dodging most of the critiscism about accuracy that Scotland recieved in Medieval 2. Although technically kilts had been invented before, just not the tartan variety. :P
CA however might get some critiscism for using the wrong tartan on the units. Scottish clans are very protective of their own individual tartans. For them it would be like dressing the English in blue. :laugh4:
Sheogorath
01-21-2009, 15:39
Indeed they were, which gives the Jacobites an added advantage of dodging most of the critiscism about accuracy that Scotland recieved in Medieval 2. Although technically kilts had been invented before, just not the tartan variety. :P
CA however might get some critiscism for using the wrong tartan on the units. Scottish clans are very protective of their own individual tartans. For them it would be like dressing the English in blue. :laugh4:
If the Cossacks can just be 'Cossacks' then the Scotts can just be 'Scotts', I think :tongueg:
And no right and honorable Englishman would wear blue! They'd commit seppuku before such dishonor.
Of course, by 'seppuku' I mean 'a nice cup of tea and a brisk jog in the park'.
Fisherking
01-21-2009, 15:49
If the Cossacks can just be 'Cossacks' then the Scotts can just be 'Scotts', I think :tongueg:
And no right and honorable Englishman would wear blue! They'd commit seppuku before such dishonor.
Of course, by 'seppuku' I mean 'a nice cup of tea and a brisk jog in the park'.
Your wrong Sheogorath the English would ware blue, so long as it was a nice Harris Tweed.
Oh, we were talking uniforms weren‘t we…
Never mind…
:clown:
Sir Beane
01-21-2009, 15:54
Your wrong Sheogorath the English would ware blue, so long as it was a nice Harris Tweed.
Oh, we were talking uniforms weren‘t we…
Never mind…
:clown:
At this point we've probably alienated and confused half ot the Org with our historical nitpicking :laugh4:
Personally I think that the Coassacks should get just as much accuracy and diversity as the various clans that make up 'the Scotts'. It will never happen though. CA don't have the time, and the majority of fans don't care about this sort of thing. Most of them they probably think of Scotland as it was portrayed in Braveheart and Highlander. :laugh4:
Speaking as an Englishman, blue isn't so bad. I would rather have a blue uniform than end up with one of the lovely neon colours CA probably have lined up for the less well-known factions. :laugh4:
Polemists
01-21-2009, 15:55
If the Cossacks can just be 'Cossacks' then the Scotts can just be 'Scotts', I think
That'd be as crazy as a Russian commander with a scottish accent............curse you mtw2 voice acting :P
I hope every faction has thier own voice this time and we don't have italian and spainish having the EXACT same voice over.
Sir Beane
01-21-2009, 15:58
That'd be as crazy as a Russian commander with a scottish accent............curse you mtw2 voice acting :P
I hope every faction has thier own voice this time and we don't have italian and spainish having the EXACT same voice over.
I hope they keep the wonderful steretypically german accent for the German states though. I crack up every time I hear my men bark out 'Heil mein kaizer!'. :laugh4:
I wouldn't worry too much. CA have said that each faction will have commands and things issued in its own language this time around. If they went to that much effort then we can probably expect them to have decent voice acting. (I hope).
Fisherking
01-21-2009, 18:16
The last unit we see thus far is the Highlander.
I would like to share with you what was said at the time of their early recruitment into the British army.
It is rather long but I am sure you can get through it. It should be enlightening.
Scottish Regiments
Military Character of the Highlanders
Hitherto the account of the military exploits of the Highlanders has been limited to their own clan feuds and to the exertions which, for a century, they made in behalf of the unfortunate Stuarts. We are now to notice their operations on a more extended field of action, by giving a condensed sketch of their services in the cause of the country; services which have acquired for them a reputation as deserved as it has been unsurpassed. From moral as well as from physical causes, the Highlanders were well fitted to attain this pre-eminence.
"In forming his military character, the Highlander was not more favoured by nature than by the social system under which he lived. Nursed in poverty, he acquired a hardihood which enabled him to sustain severe privations. As the simplicity of his life gave vigour to his body, so it fortified his mind. Possessing a frame and constitution thus hardened, he was taught to consider courage as the most honourable virtue, cowardice the most disgraceful failing; to venerate and obey his chief, and to devote himself for his native country and clan; and thus prepared to be a soldier, he was ready to follow wherever honour and duty called him. With such principles, and regarding any disgrace he might bring on his clan and district as the most cruel misfortune, the Highland private soldier had a peculiar motive to exertion. The common soldier of many other countries has scarcely any other stimulus to the performance of his duty than the fear of chastisement, or the habit of mechanical obedience to command, produced by the discipline in which he has been trained. With a Highland soldier it is otherwise. When in a national or district corps, he is surrounded by the companions of his youth and the rivals of his early achievements; he feels the impulse of emulation strengthened by the consciousness that every proof which he displays, either of bravery or cowardice, will find its way to his native home. He thus learns to appreciate the value of a good name; and it is thus, that in a Highland regiment, consisting of men from the same country, whose kindred and connexions are mutually known, every individual feels that his conduct is the subject of observation, and that, independently of his duty as a member of a systematic whole, he has to sustain a separate and individual reputation, which will be reflected on his family, and district or glen. Hence he requires no artificial excitements. He acts from motives within himself; his point is fixed, and his aim must terminate either in victory or death. The German soldier considers himself as a part of the military machine, and duly marked out in the orders of the day. He moves onward to his destination with a well-trained pace, and with as phlegmatic indifference to the result as a labourer who works for his daily hire. The courage of the French soldier is supported in the hour of trial by his high notions of the point of honour; but this display of spirit is not always steady. A Highland soldier faces his enemy, whether in front, rear, or flank; and if he has confidence in his commander, it may be predicted with certainty that he will be victorious or die on the ground which he maintains. He goes into the field resolved not to disgrace his name. A striking characteristic of the Highlander is, that all his actions seem to flow from sentiment. His endurance of privation and fatigue,—his resistance of hostile opposition,—his solicitude for the good opinion of his superiors,—all originate in this source, whence also proceeds his obedience, which is always most conspicuous when exhibited under kind treatment. Hence arises the difference observable between the conduct of one regiment of Highlanders and that of another, and frequently even of the same regiment at different times, and under different management. A Highland regiment, to be orderly and well disciplined, ought to be commanded by men who are capable of appreciating their character, directing their passions and prejudices, and acquiring their entire confidence and affection. The officer to whom the command of Highlanders is intrusted must endeavour to acquire their confidence and good opinion. With this view, he must watch over the propriety of his own conduct. He must observe the strictest justice and fidelity in his promises to his men, conciliate them by an attention to their dispositions and prejudices, and, at the same time, by preserving a firm and steady authority, without which he will not be respected.
"Officers who are accustomed to command Highland soldiers find it easy to guide and control them when their full confidence has been obtained; but when distrust prevails severity ensues, with a consequent neglect of duty, and by a continuance of this unhappy misunderstanding, the men become stubborn, disobedient, and in the end mutinous. The spirit of a Highland soldier revolts at any unnecessary severity; though he may be led to the mouth of a cannon if properly directed, will rather die than be unfaithful to his trust. But if, instead of leading, his officers attempt to drive him, he may fail in the discharge of the most common duties."
A learned and ingenious author, who, though himself a Lowlander, had ample opportunity, while serving in many campaigns with Highland regiments, of becoming intimately acquainted with their character, thus writes of them:-
"The limbs of the Highlander are strong and sinewy, the frame hardy, and of great physical power, in proportion to size. He endures cold, hunger, and fatigue with patience; in other words, he has an elasticity or pride of mind which does not feel, or which refuses to complain of hardship. The air of the gentleman is ordinarily majestic; the air and gait of the gilly is not graceful. He walks with a bended knee, and does not walk with grace, but his movement has energy; and between walking and trotting, and by an interchange of pace, he performs long journeys with facility, particularly on broken and irregular ground, such as he has been accustomed to traverse in his native country.
"The Highlanders of Scotland, born and reared under the circumstances stated, marshalled for action by clans, according to ancient usage, led into action by chiefs who possess confidence from an opinion of knowledge, and love from the influence of blood, may be calculated upon as returning victorious, or dying in the grasp of the enemy.
"Scotch Highlanders have a courage devoted to honour; but they have an impetuosity which, if not well understood, and skillfully directed, is liable to error. The Scotch fight individually as if the cause were their own, not as if it were the cause of a commander only,—and they fight impassioned. Whether training and discipline may bring them in time to the apathy of German soldiers, further experience will determine; but the Highlanders are even now impetuous; and, if they fail to accomplish their object, they cannot be withdrawn from it like those who fight a battle by the job. The object stands in their own view; the eye is fixed upon it; they rush towards it, seize it, and proclaim victory with exultation.
"The Highlander, upon the whole, is a soldier of the first quality; but, as already said, he requires to see his object fully, and to come into contact with it in all its extent. He then feels the impression of his duty through a channel which he understands, and he acts consistently in consequence of the impression, that is, in consequence of the impulse of his own internal sentiment, rather than the external impulse of the command of another; for it is often verified in experience that, where the enemy is before the Highlander and nearly in contact with him, the authority of the officer is in a measure null; the duty is notwithstanding done, and well done, by the impulses of natural instinct.
"Their conduct in the year 1745 proves very distinctly that they are neither a ferocious nor a cruel people. No troops ever, perhaps, traversed a country which might be deemed hostile leaving so few traces of outrage behind them as were left by the Highlanders in the year 1745. They are better known at the present time than they were then, and they are known to be eminent for honesty and fidelity, where confidence is given them. They possess exalted notions of honour, warm friendships, and much national pride."
Of the disinclination from peaceful employment, and propensity for war here spoken of, Dr Jackson elsewhere affords us a striking illustration. While passing through the Isle of Skye ("The Isle of Skye has, within the last forty years, furnished for the public service, twenty-one lieutenant-generals and major-generals, forty-five lieutenant-colonels; six hundred majors, captains, lieutenants, and subalterns; ten thousand foot soldiers; one hundred and twenty pipers ; four governors of British colonies; one governor-general; one adjutant-general; one chief-baron of England; and one judge of the Supreme Court of Scotland. The generals may be classed thus :—eight Macdonalds, six Macleods, two Macallisters, two Macaskills, one Mackinnon, one Elder, and one Macqueen. The Isle of Skye is forty-five miles long, and about fifteen in mean breadth. Truly the inhabitants are a wonderous people. It may be mentioned that this island is the birth-place of Cuthullin, the celebrated hero mentioned in Ossian’s Poems. "—Inverness Journal). in the autumn of 1783, he met a man of great age whose shoulder had, through a recent fall, been dislocated. This condition was speedily rectified by our traveller. "As there seemed to be something rather uncommon about the old man, I asked if he had lived all his life in the Highlands? No :—he said he made one of the FORTY-SECOND when they were first raised; then had gone with them to Germany; but when he had heard that his Prince was landed in the North, he purchased, or had made such interest that he procured his discharge; came home, and enlisted under his banner. He fought at Culloden, and was wounded. After everything was settled, he returned to his old regiment, and served with it till he received another wound that rendered him unfit for service. He now, he said, lived the best way he could, on his pension."
Dr Jackson also strongly advocates the desirability of forming national and district regiments, and of keeping them free from any foreign intermixture. Such a policy seems to be getting more and more into favour among modern military authorities; and we believe that at the present time it is seldom, and only with reluctance, that any but Scotchmen are admitted into Scotch, and especially into Highland regiments, at least this is the case with regard to privates. Indeed, it is well known that in our own country there is even now an attempt among those who manage such matters, to connect particular regiments with certain districts. Not only does such a plan tend to keep up the morale respectability and esprit de corps of each regiment, but is well calculated to keep up the numbers, by establishing a connection between the various regiments and the militia of the districts with which they are connected. Originally each Highland regiment was connected and raised from a well defined district, and military men who are conversant in such matters think that it would be advisable to restore these regiments to their old footing in this respect.
On this subject, we again quote the shrewd remarks of Dr Jackson:—
"If military materials be thrown together promiscuously—that is, arranged by no other rule except that of size or quantity of matter, as it is admitted that the individual parts possess different propensities and different powers of action, it is plain that the instrument composed of these different and independent parts has a tendency to act differently; the parts are constrained to act on one object by stimulation or coercion only.
"Military excellence consists, as often hinted, in every part of the instrument acting with full force—acting from one principle and for one purpose; and hence it is evident that in a mixed fabric, composed of parts of unequal power and different temper, disunion is a consequence, if all act to the full extent of their power; or if disunion be not a consequence, the combined act must necessarily be shackled, and, as such, inferior, the strong being restrained from exertion for the sake of preserving union with the weak.
"The imperfection now stated necessarily attaches to regiments composed of different nations mixed promiscuously. It even attaches, in some degree, to regiments which are formed indiscriminately from the population of all the districts or counties of an extensive kingdom. This assumption, anticipated by reasoning, is confirmed by experience in the military history of semi-barbarous tribes, which are often observed, without the aid of tactic, as taught in modern schools, to stick together in danger and to achieve acts of heroism beyond the comprehension of those who have no knowledge of man but as part of a mechanical instrument of war. The fact has numerous proofs in the history of nations; but it has not a more decisive one than that which occurred in the late SEVENTY-FIRST REGIMENT in the revolutionary war of America. In the summer of the year 1779, a party of the Seventy-first Regiment, consisting of fifty-six men and five officers, was detached from a redoubt at Stoneferry, in South Carolina, for the purpose of reconnoitring the enemy, which was supposed to be advancing in force to attack the post. The instructions given to the officer who commanded went no further than to reconnoitre and retire upon the redoubt. The troops were new troops,—ardent as Highlanders usually are. They fell in with a strong column of the enemy (upwards of two thousand) within a short distance of the post; and, instead of retiring according to instruction, they thought proper to attack, with an instinctive view, it was supposed, to retard progress, and thereby to give time to those who were in the redoubt to make better preparations for defence. This they did; but they were themselves nearly destroyed. All the officers and non-commissioned officers were killed or wounded, and seven of the privates only remained on their legs at the end of the combat. The commanding officer fell, and, in falling, desired the few who still resisted to make the best of their way to the redoubt. They did not obey. The national sympathies were warm. National honours did not permit them to leave their officers in the field; and they actually persisted in covering their fallen comrades until a reinforcement arrived from headquarters.
In the narratives which follow, we have confined ourselves strictly to those regiments which are at the present day officially recognised as Highland. Many existing regiments were originally Highland, which, as our readers will see, had ultimately to be changed into ordinary line regiments, from the difficulty of finding Highlanders willing to enlist; the history of such regiments we have followed only so long as they were recognised as Highland, and in the event of their again becoming Highland regiments—as in the case of the 73rd and 75th—their history is resumed at that point. In this way the existing strictly Highland regiments are reduced to eleven— The Black Watch or 42nd, the 71st, 72nd, 73rd, 74th, 75th, 77th, 78th, 79th, 91st, 92nd, 93rd.
Mailman653
01-21-2009, 18:45
Poland-Lithuania (http://www.sega.com/empire/gameinfo/factions.php?id=23)
Fisherking
01-21-2009, 20:04
OMG! Still no Austria???
Only three factions left and at least one is Indian!
Already there are too few factions, I see.
I am sure we will manage to open them but it will be more than unlocking as they are nonplayable in the standard game. It may also be hoped that some ambitious and industrious soul could flesh them out in a more proper manner than just generic units.
Sir Beane
01-21-2009, 20:31
Nice find Mailman!
Poland-Lithuania
Poland is an old idea, and an old kingdom. Like anything old, it has old enmities and problems.
The problems, and enmities, are those of any state surrounded by ambitious rivals, all of whom are looking to become stronger at someone else’s expense. Sweden’s ambitions to create an empire around the Baltic; Tsar Peter’s desires to make Russia a great European power to rival the style of Bourbon France; the Austrians and Prussians each seeking to define a greater Germany and secure their borders; even the distant Ottomans have to be considered, should they ever launch a new assault on Christian Europe. And in the middle of all of this, a Polish-Lithuanian state that is not under the control of a single, strong ruler, a man who can impose his will to defend his people. Instead, Poland is something altogether stranger: a land where the people have a say in government.
That the country has survived at all is a tribute to the spirit of its people.
And yet, these rivalries could be turned to advantage. A Polish leader who picked his alliances carefully, and his wars equally so, could do much to make his country great. The Russians have no divine right to dominate the steppes, or the Swedes to control the Baltic. The various Germans states need allies, the same as other nations, and cannot expect to take anything they want without a struggle. A clever Polish leader could make much of this situation, if he can manage the hopes, expectations and fears of his people at home.
OMG! Still no Austria???
Only three factions left and at least one is Indian!
Already there are too few factions, I see.
I am sure we will manage to open them but it will be more than unlocking as they are nonplayable in the standard game. It may also be hoped that some ambitious and industrious soul could flesh them out in a more proper manner than just generic units.
I wouldn't get worried just yet. I'm confident that Austria are a playable faction, they just haven't been revealed yet.
There are still three factions left, one is an Indian faction and one is either the US or Portugal. That still leaves a slot for Austria to be on the list. I can't think of any other faction who are more deserving or more likely.
Notice that all of the factions mentioned as Polish rivals above have been confirmed playable except Austria. Since Austria is included with all those other factions we can take that as evidence it will be playable.
Patience my friend. Austria will be confirmed soon enough. :beam:
Fondor_Yards
01-21-2009, 21:44
OMG! Still no Austria???
Only three factions left and at least one is Indian!
Hm I'm not sure they could leave it out, considering it's huge importance in basicly everything that happened during this time period. So like Beane said, the last 3 are probably Austria, Mughals/Marthians, and the USA.
Sir Beane
01-21-2009, 22:09
I think I may have found decent evidence of Austria being in the game Fisherking. I have a screenshot taken from trailer 3/5 showing Vienna. The menu has Austria's flag in the bottom right where it shows the flag of the nation you are playing as.
Check out the image below.
https://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2360/37110473os7.png (https://imageshack.us)
By BeanetheOrange (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/BeanetheOrange)
Haxorsist
01-21-2009, 23:00
The clansmen had cool jackets. I want one of those. ^^
Polemists
01-22-2009, 05:35
okay hmm in that austria shot anyone know why that one army, the one over by dresden, has a bunch of little bars next to the unit and the other's dont?
Is that movement? Unit strength?
Sol Invictus
01-22-2009, 06:08
okay hmm in that austria shot anyone know why that one army, the one over by dresden, has a bunch of little bars next to the unit and the other's dont?
Is that movement? Unit strength?
That would be Army strength.
Poland-Lithuania confirmed. This is most excellent news. :2thumbsup:
I confess I'm rather curious to give them a try. I suspect that -- as in MTW -- they'll prove to be a good faction to play as if one is looking for a particularly good challenge. ~:)
As for Austria, I'm not too worried about them anymore. Aside from CA's hinting in P-L's faction description that it would be playable (and kudos to Sir Beane for picking up on that clue :bow:), it simply played too large a role in European affairs for it to not be included.
Of course, I'd have said the same thing about Portugal, and we're not sure she'll be playable. :shrug:
Megas Methuselah
01-22-2009, 09:21
What's our best guesses for the remaining factions, then? I sure hope Portugal will make it... :sad:
Fisherking
01-22-2009, 09:39
As for Austria, I'm not too worried about them anymore. Aside from CA's hinting in P-L's faction description that it would be playable (and kudos to Sir Beane for picking up on that clue :bow:), it simply played too large a role in European affairs for it to not be included.
Of course, I'd have said the same thing about Portugal, and we're not sure she'll be playable. :shrug:
That is why I said we have too few factions!
Portugal had many strong colonies but they are all off the map unless the Azores are there.
Denmark had a few colonies but small. In the game however, they have Norway and possibly Iceland..I think it is there…
This might make the difference in deciding who gets the player status.
Portugal played a critical part in the Peninsular War, where as Denmark was just there as a whipping boy.
But who gets the nod?
There are no others that I see that top those two, but then CA may toss in an Italian faction instead…
Bavaria and Savoy don’t seem strong enough to include when I seriously think about it…not from only 12!
Sir Beane
01-22-2009, 10:12
What's our best guesses for the remaining factions, then? I sure hope Portugal will make it... :sad:
The remaining ones are: (in order of how certain I am).
Mughal/Maratha
Austria
US/Portugal.
We have decent evidience for both of the Indian factions. We know the US is playable, but that might mean onl in the road to Independance since they aren't on the map when the game begins.
@Polemists
The other guys in the shot don't have bars next to them because they are not armies. I think they are the 'Gentleman' agent we have heard so much about. The bar is almost certainly unit strength.
Fisherking
01-22-2009, 11:23
Sir Beane‘s post from another thread.
The Black Watch
Floowing that they were stationed in Flanders. In 1745 they took part in the Battle of Fontenoy, where they apparently surpised the French and their own commanders with their ferocity in battle.
They were known to have 'their own way of fighting'. When recieving a French musket volley their commanding officer Colonel Robert Munro ordered them to 'clap to the ground.' Their soldiers dived to the ground, allowing the bullets to pass over their heads, then got up and returned fire at the suprised Frenchmen. This echoes military tactics used succesfully much later (cover, fire, cover, fire etc.).
Once they were close enough the the enemy they took cover for a final time, then rose to their feet and charged the French line, driving them back.
They were using Highland Tactics…something I hope they give the Highlander units.
Sol Invictus
01-22-2009, 15:45
The last three factions appear to be Austria, Mughals, and Maratha Confederacy. I personally would swap out one of the Indian factions and replace them with Portugal. The Thirteen Colonies will not be a Faction for the Grand Campaign starting in 1700. If you want to play the Thirteen Colonies through 1799, you will have to play the Road to Independence Campaign.
Fisherking
01-22-2009, 16:11
The last three factions appear to be Austria, Mughals, and Maratha Confederacy. I personally would swap out one of the Indian factions and replace them with Portugal. The Thirteen Colonies will not be a Faction for the Grand Campaign starting in 1700. If you want to play the Thirteen Colonies through 1799, you will have to play the Road to Independence Campaign.
Is this your best guess or do you have more information than the rest of us?
Sir Beane
01-22-2009, 16:13
Is this your best guess or do you have more information than the rest of us?
He's making an informed guess based on the available information.
I'm reluctant to conclude that two Indian factions will be playable however. I would rather we had only one and that Portugal were in the game.
Megas Methuselah
01-22-2009, 17:45
I'm reluctant to conclude that two Indian factions will be playable however. I would rather we had only one and that Portugal were in the game.
Likewise. Anyways, so it turns out the US may not be playable in the grand campaign? I thought they were going to be put in as some playable emergent faction...
Sir Beane
01-22-2009, 17:55
Likewise. Anyways, so it turns out the US may not be playable in the grand campaign? I thought they were going to be put in as some playable emergent faction...
No one is really sure. They certainly don't seem to be present on the Grand campaign map at the start of the game, which will make playing as them difficult. It could be that they are only playable in the Road to Independance campaign and that is where all the info saying they are playable came from.
The emergent faction theory was created to explain how they could be playable and not present, but that was before the revelation of the Road to Independance campaign.
I also think most people are hoping it is Portugal and not the US that takes the last of the 12 playable faction slots.
It's all speculation really, until CA release more info.
Megas Methuselah
01-22-2009, 18:11
Ah yes, speculation...
Sol Invictus
01-22-2009, 23:20
Is this your best guess or do you have more information than the rest of us?
That's just my take on it.
Fisherking
01-23-2009, 10:30
Than you most kindly Sol Invictus for your reply.
I did not mean it to sound accusatory, though it may have…my apologies if it did!
Very Gentlemanly of you sir!
:bow:
Polemists
01-24-2009, 05:38
Assuming there are 3 factions and that the 13 colonies are not one of them i would say Austria is probably in. As others have said, there have been enough hints about Austria, the hapsburg faction, and german dualism in other faction's histories that they should be playable.
India has a faction that is probably a definite. As we get closer we will soon see. Of course once they release all the factions then they are really out of information to toss us :laugh4:
Time for demo :P
pdoyle007
01-28-2009, 16:27
New update:
Naval First Rate: Was hoping for something a bit different but beggars and demo-free-ers can't be choosers:
First Rate
The first rate is the largest type of “ship of the line of battle”, intended to be the centre of any fleet. These are very expensive and powerful vessels.
While these warships are among the most powerful vessels afloat, they are poor sailors, being both slow and unresponsive. This is not a serious shortcoming because, armed with around 100 cannons firing 32-, 24- and 18-pounder balls on their three decks, they can fire a terrible and destructive broadside. They carry a crew of over 800 sailors, gunners and marines and have more artillery than most land armies. Their cost, however, is a drawback and few navies can afford to build or maintain more than a handful of them.
Historically, first rates were never common, and hardly ever sent to overseas stations. They existed purely to fight in set-piece battles, and were not used for mundane duties such as protecting merchantmen, policing the seas and hunting down privateers.
Sir Beane
01-28-2009, 16:33
Thanks pdoyle007. The OP has been updated.
I to was hoping for a more intenresting ship than this, but anything is better than nothing. :2thumbsup:
Sol Invictus
01-29-2009, 00:03
Than you most kindly Sol Invictus for your reply.
I did not mean it to sound accusatory, though it may have…my apologies if it did!
Very Gentlemanly of you sir!
:bow:
No worries Fish. I am not that emotionally fragile.~:cheers:
Polemists
01-29-2009, 05:35
The ship was nice but it does little to appease my inner demo desires.
DEMO
pdoyle007
02-03-2009, 16:39
Austria Confirmed, does this leave one more? What price that the last faction is featured in the DEMO????
Austria
The history of Austria is one of warfare against invaders from the east, and the infidel Turks in particular. The originally Duchy was the eastern marches of the Holy Roman Empire (the Ostmark), and the defensive importance of Austria to the rest of Europe is immense. For nearly 250 years, the Ottoman Turks have hurled themselves against the bastion of Austria, reaching the gates of Vienna on more than one occasion. The last time was in 1683. Austrian bravery has kept them at bay, every time.
After the bloodletting of the last century – the Thirty Years War – within the Holy Roman Empire, Austria is a leading power among “the Germanies”. Leopold I, the ruling Hapsburg, has brought peace and prosperity, and maintained a first-class military machine (in particular, the Austrians have mastered the tactics using light, irregular troops). This gives the Austrians the potential to become a truly great power, either within the borders of the old Empire, to the south in Italy, or to the east. This latter scheme requires the Turks to be persuaded – at sword point – that their destiny lies outside Europe. The Austrians also have much to be proud of in the arts, music and culture.
Beyond their immediate borders, there are other matters for the Hapsburgs to consider. The Spanish branch of the family is now close to extinction, as Charles II has failed to produce an heir, among his other problems. Perhaps Spain should remain a part of Hapsburg domains, but this might lead to confrontation with France. And then, of course, there are the pan-Slavic, Christian Orthodox ambitions of the Russian Tsar to consider…
Sir Beane
02-03-2009, 16:44
Ooooh Austria. Fisherking will be pleased. :laugh4:
Two factions left, who will they be? Tension is mounting, and the cries for a demo are reaching fever pitch...
pdoyle007
02-03-2009, 16:49
Hasn't there been a confirmation of an Indian faction?
If the DEMO is them fighting Portugal all questions are answered (other than where the fight is taking place?)
I get the feeling the DEMO might be the first 'Road to Independence' bit and a Naval battle.
Sir Beane
02-03-2009, 16:51
Hasn't there been a confirmation of an Indian faction?
If the DEMO is them fighting Portugal all questions are answered (other than where the fight is taking place?)
I get the feeling the DEMO might be the first 'Road to Independence' bit and a Naval battle.
There has been, but we don't know yet which Indian faction it will be. Its a tossup between the Maratha and the Mughal Empire.
Both factions could have come into contact with Portugal as they hada colony in India. :2thumbsup:
Fisherking
02-03-2009, 18:33
Austria Confirmed!
http://www.totalwar.com/empire/gameinfo/news.php
:laugh4:
get on it Sir Beane!
Sir Beane
02-03-2009, 18:37
Austria Confirmed!
http://www.totalwar.com/empire/gameinfo/news.php
:laugh4:
get on it Sir Beane!
Already beaten you to it :tongue: Check a few posts up. :2thumbsup:
Polemists
02-03-2009, 19:18
Very clever Sega,
Clearly I am so important that you have focused on my demo assaults, you have read the polls and knew that I planned to play Austria, and only Prussia if Austria was not available.
Do not think such small things shall appease the demo gods CA.
It is but a small gesture, and the doom is coming...
unless we get
a
DEMO
Fisherking
02-03-2009, 19:33
Already beaten you to it :tongue: Check a few posts up. :2thumbsup::oops:
:embarassed:
Sir Beane
02-03-2009, 19:43
:oops:
:embarassed:
Just be pleased that Austria in in game as a playable faction! :2thumbsup: I can understand your excitement lol.
Now let us all pray for poor Portugal. :shame:
Polemists
02-04-2009, 05:16
While Portugal may or may not be in what are we at now, 10 of the 12 playable factions?
I'd assume next week you'll probably get Mughals.
Then it's all a question of whether or not they consider the 13 colonies a "playable faction" or not.
pdoyle007
02-04-2009, 09:54
I think the 13 colonies might become an unlockable faction once you have completed the 'Road To Independence'. It would give you a tangible reason to go through it, rather than just plow straight in with your usual favourite factions.
A demo would be nice
Polemists
02-04-2009, 11:32
It would give you a tangible reason to go through it, rather than just plow straight in with your usual favourite factions.
It sounds plausabile,
as does
a
DEMO
Sir Beane
02-04-2009, 12:14
I don't know about the unlockable part. Because even if you unlocked them as a playable faction in the Grand Campaign they don't actually have any lands or citiies at the start of the game. CA would have to find a way around that problem first.
Wheras Portugal has a base in Europe and territories in India and America. They seem a much more logical choice for playable faction than a fledgeling nation that didn't exist at the time and was not a superpower even when it did form.
pdoyle007
02-04-2009, 13:29
How about if there is a single rebel faction in Northern America, however once you have completed RoI this then turns into the US and you have the option to play as it?
However on the grand campaign for say Britain this is simple a rebel faction. Basically a placeholder with designated land?
Or (and less likely) the 'US horde' that attacks with no cities but stacks of rocket elephants........
pevergreen
02-04-2009, 14:14
I think that once you complete the Road to Independance, you can simply start at the end of the 3rd chapter, playing as the US. It gives a proper way to play the US, with a story behind it, yet leaves the other countires in the grand campaign at historical starting points.
Mailman653
02-04-2009, 15:31
That does make sense albeit a bit boring in the sense that all your campaigns will be the same, founding, colony, rebellion. Then you'll have about 19 years of game play that won't be scripted, I doubt it will be possible to start having ideas of empire like having possessions in India, Africa, or even Europe; the best you might be able to do is grab the Caribbean. Although since you just got through a long war with the English, is it really wise to start picking a new fight with someone else?
Thats just speculation on my part.
Polemists
02-04-2009, 15:48
That does make sense albeit a bit boring in the sense that all your campaigns will be the same, founding, colony, rebellion. Then you'll have about 19 years of game play that won't be scripted, I doubt it will be possible to start having ideas of empire like having possessions in India, Africa, or even Europe; the best you might be able to do is grab the Caribbean. Although since you just got through a long war with the English, is it really wise to start picking a new fight with someone else?
Thats just speculation on my part.
My thoughts, is however unhistoric you may get to play the 13 colonies as a faction but you will pay taxes to england, basically you'll be playing as protectorate. The more you build up a military, the more they tax, and eventually this leads to unhappiness, which leads to a revoultion.
Otherwise, players are going to only have 40 turns of gameplay after the RTI campaign, or maybe slightly more if they start as England and go that route.
Either way, in a 188 turn game, it seems kind of silly that your major advertisment faction would be unplayable except in scripted campaign.
You could be right though.
The best way to know of course
is with
a
DEMO
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