THE BARBARIANS OF EUROPE.... [Archive]

Pontius Pilate

11-01-2008, 01:03

well, here it goes....

I have noticed that alot of the barbarian units in EB (gauls, sweboz) are, well, nude and if not than they are wearing very light clothing. I never thought about it until recently, so my question is: since the barbarians come from cold places like gaul and germania why don't they wear thicker clothes. Seriously, don't these guys get cold? How is it possible for some of them to run around in the near nude and not get hypothermia and freeze to death, even the guys that are wearing clothes are wearing short sleeves but no thick furs or jacket-like clothing. Also, is the fact that they were stronger than other mediterranean peoples have to due with the cold and harsh enviroment they live in?

artavazd

11-01-2008, 01:29

usualy people who live in cold enviroments, and mountainous regions tend to have a wider frame,a "solid" look to them. I guess it is to keep the body heat in.

Yeah about the barbarians in EB ive been wondering the same thing. They look a little underdressed.

Lovejoy

11-01-2008, 01:36

Fighting only took place during summer I think. So they wouldn't freeze to death :P

Some barbarians fought naked as a act of courage. Others, I guess, didnt afford or had much cloths. Furs and capes was probably more common: Most barbarians in EB have capes, and furs was probably too clumsy to fight in. (I am only guessing)

EDIT: But many barbarians, such as gauls, probably had cloths, but prefer d not to fight in them, since they could get spoiled.

Foot

11-01-2008, 01:57

They would probably fight in the nude or bare-chested, but wouldn't come to the battle so under-dressed. They would wear a warm cloak to keep out the cold, but as the fight was to begin they would discard their cloaks and stand as men before their enemy showing their fearlessness.

EDIT: Also as far as I know there are only four nude units (two celts, one sweboz and one galatian), and I would call it a 50-50 split on wearing shirts and going bare-chested. Hardly a clear majority.

Foot

cmacq

11-01-2008, 02:04

I have developed a theory about this very subject.

CmacQ

SwissBarbar

11-01-2008, 02:07

even the last barbarously hillbillyisch barbarian could not tramp on snow without clothing. i think they wore clothes made out of fur, because it keeps warm better that cloths. Can't imagine that even the most pigheaded and bloody-minded Gaesatae fought bare naked in winter, facing the enemy shaking and shivering from cold, with shrunken genitals and crumping teeth. The intimidating effect on the enemy would disappear... au contraire, they rather laught themselves to death...

would be the reason why as Lovejoy said, winter was not the time of war

Power2the1

11-01-2008, 02:25

Some possibilities:

The application of oil over yourself after you strip down for battle helps to cut down on the chilliness and cold. I've never read specifics of Celts in the Iron Age doing this but it wouldn't have been some major secret and this could have helped with everything cold.

As already mentioned, the nude aspect was thought to be a sign of bravery, faith in one's own God and his/her protection in battle, plus the psychological edge that facing hundred/thousands of nude warriors could do you if they were your enemy. Now once the battle was over, head collected, and the adrenaline rush and battle lust wore off, you betcha they got cold and would likely hreturn to base and warm up around a warm fire again ~:)

Aemilius Paulus

11-01-2008, 02:45

Jeez you guys, I don't want to sound like an obnoxious know-it-all, but practically no one fought during the winter, or at least in the Northern parts of Europe. All of your theories are needless as almost no major military operations were held during wintertime, or early spring for that matter. Logistics were the major impediment. Even the Romans with their legendary logistics system knew better than to fight during the winter, and barbarian fighters, who lived off the land more than off the supply wagons would starve during the winter. The Sweboz could have made isolated raids during winter, but all the major undertakings were mostly for summer and autumn, especially when you had a sizable army.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but for perhaps a few isolated cases, I doubt any force of over 15-20 thousand men was foolish enough to campaign during the months of snowfall.

Tellos Athenaios

11-01-2008, 02:47

Sufficient physical or mental occupation keeps the chill away.

Gleemonex

11-01-2008, 10:54

I could have sworn there were some fellow Canadians (and a few Scandinavians) around here. Has nobody here ever made a snowman?

It takes surprisingly slight exercise to raise one's body temperature in the cold, when the body's major heat-dissipating devices (sweating, radiation, panting, fanning) are completely shut down [1]. I've been comfortably down to snow pants and a t-shirt in temperatures down to about -8 during moderate exercise (snowball fight, making a snowman, leisurely cross-country skiing...). Notice the scant clothing of professional skiers, or the near-complete lack of winter-style jackets among lumberjacks, among others.

Combat generates far more heat than building a snowman.

All this besides the fact that winter campaigns were rare, as AP pointed out.

-Glee

-----------------------
[1] doubly so with proper footwear and headwear

Ibn-Khaldun

11-01-2008, 13:35

Being outside only with T-shirt on during winter is actually nothing. You just have to keep moving and you can't stand still.
I have been in the forest and worked as a woodcutter(I was helping my grandfather..) and it was about -20 - -25 Celsius all that time. Sometimes even colder. The thing is that if you work hard then you don't feel cold. And I didn't wear almost anything special.
Anyway, I doubt that anyone would fight during winter in snow when it's freezing like hell outside!
But wearing nothing when it's just -5 - -10 Celsius isn't that insane. But you do need a nice day without a wind, though. :beam:

Lovejoy

11-01-2008, 14:44

Yes. A little wind and you can literary freeze to death in minutes. The most important thing is that you wear shoes and cloves. Otherwise you wont stay warm no matter what you do :P

Gleemonex

11-01-2008, 16:39

Being outside only with T-shirt on during winter is actually nothing. You just have to keep moving and you can't stand still.

It's not a contest ;) But yes, wearing a t-shirt in winter is not only possible, sometimes it's sensible, as sweaty clothing in cold weather is a temperature hazard.

(lumberjack is another term for woodcutter, btw)

But you do need a nice day without a wind, though. :beam:

Yes. A little wind and you can literary freeze to death in minutes. The most important thing is that you wear shoes and cloves. Otherwise you wont stay warm no matter what you do :P

Wind chill on bare flesh is quite dangerous. But in the context of nude-fighting barbarians, they would likely have boots, headgear and shields. As concerns wind chill, there's a big difference between having those three pieces of kit and being truly naked!

This, of course, beyond the fact that they didn't fight in the dead of winter in the first place.

-Glee

Anastasios Helios

11-01-2008, 16:56

I'm from Mississippi...I helped my dad work outside one day during the winter (it was 25 degrees F) and I thought that I was going to freeze to death...

It all depends on where you live and how often your body has to put up with the cold. I'm not accustomed to it, so I suffer immensely in cold weather...I have Mexican friends who complain about 50 degree weather (even I laugh then.) I'm sure that someone from Russia, Canada, or Scandinavia is laughing at me now. :)

artavazd

11-01-2008, 17:08

Gleemonex

11-01-2008, 17:15

It all depends on where you live and how often your body has to put up with the cold.

True. Since moving to Asia, my comfort zone has gone up from 18-22C to 25-28C!

But again, in the context of nude-fighting barbarians, the weather would be fairly homogeneous geographically. Moreso than the difference between Canada and Mississippi at least.

-Glee

Anastasios Helios

11-01-2008, 17:39

I went to Michigan for a week in early July. I left 100F weather and crazy humidity behind in Mississippi and once I was in Michigan...I needed to wear a jacket because it was so cold. If I wore a jacket in Mississippi in early July...you're guaranteed to have a heat stroke.

I have heard before that people in colder climates are perfectly comfortable wearing t-shirts when it is 32F (0 C)...that's crazy...

Wausser

11-01-2008, 17:49

I've experianced it too, when I went to Ethiopia it was 20 degrees Celsius, that good weather in the Netherlands, so we wore a T-shirt. But all the Ethiopians wore thick sweaters :dizzy2:

General Appo

11-01-2008, 18:25

I wouldn´t say it´s common practice for me to prance around half-naked in -10C but I´ve definitely done it without any difficulty. Of course you´d freeze if you were just standing still, but you´d have to be pretty stupid to do that.

Btw, Swedish here.

Carthaginian General

11-01-2008, 20:45

We Scandinavians may be somewhat used to cold, but we don't like it any more than you do. And it's not that cold here. But yes, to the guy above, I was chuckling at you. T-shirt in 0 degrees? No problem, but I wouldn't really enjoy it. Hell I've bathed in a few degrees + which probably sounds like a suicide attempt to you :P.

Ibn-Khaldun

11-01-2008, 20:51

(lumberjack is another term for woodcutter, btw)

My excuse for not realizing that earlier is that English is not my native language. :beam:

Megas Methuselah

11-01-2008, 22:08

That's a good excuse. :beam:

Anyways, coming from a Canadian, I can't help but laugh at some of you guys complaining about the cold. :clown: But if it's of any comfort, I'll let you in on a secret: at around 20-30 degrees celcius(eh, approx. 65-90 farenheit'ed) last summer, I was completely losing it. I would walk around the house with nothing but a light towel draped around my thighs, occasionally punching the couch in frustration over the very hot temperature. Out in public, we'd just hide in the shades, and take numerous breaks at the well-air conditioned malls. Ugly times, summer. Fall is the best.

desert

11-01-2008, 22:24

Being near the ocean, New York has a very mild climate. It never gets to 16 F except in the deepest, darkest, winters. Although I once saw it get to 106 in the summer, it usually stays in the high 80s.

I don't know about other demographics, but many kids walk around in a T-shirt even in 50 degree weather.

Although the fact that they only need to walk for 5 minutes to get to the nearest subway station might have something to do with it.

Carthaginian General

11-01-2008, 23:03

Ugly times, summer. Fall is the best.

I agree, it gets way too hot here. Up to 30-35 degrees at worst :/

Gleemonex

11-02-2008, 04:09

My excuse for not realizing that earlier is that English is not my native language. :beam:

No worries -- your English is (waaaaaay) better than my Estonian! And thanks for confirming my lumberjack example :grin:

-Glee

Sarcasm

11-02-2008, 04:25

Screw the rain, the wind and the snow. Give me the sun, a hot breeze, the sound of the surf, sand between my toes and semi-naked women....any day. ~:cool:

desert

11-02-2008, 04:28

Fecal bacteria often concentrates in coastal sand, so having it between your toes is probably the last thing you would want.

Sarcasm

11-02-2008, 05:17

Tell you what, you can depress all you want in the snow and rain, I'll take my chances with the fecal matter that's 5 minutes down the road from me.

desert

11-02-2008, 05:53

Beaches experience rain as well.:laugh4:

I live near a beach with gravel for sand, so...

Conqueror

11-02-2008, 10:37

Who needs a beach when you can have a nice hole in the ice of a frozen lake (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpjv7SW0PRA)?

Apgad

11-02-2008, 10:43

I've closely checked out the "equipment" of Gasaetae during summer and winter battles, and can't see any obvious difference...

cmacq

11-02-2008, 16:26

I have a theory about this, but don't want to post it here.

Majd il-Romani

11-02-2008, 16:30

I guess it all depends on where you are from. Like me, I live in southern Kalifornion (California, I guess that would be the EB-way of saying it) and sometimes Aigyptos and Sriye. So naturally I'm used to the heat. This one time I went to visit relatives in Canada and one day they were watching the weather and were like "wow! its going to be 70 F, its going to be HOT!!" and I laugh at them, but also when they visit here and we say "its going to be 60F, wear a jacket before you feeze!" they laugh

Lysimachos

11-02-2008, 16:36

I have developed a theory about this very subject.

CmacQ

I have a theory about this, but I don't want to post it here.

Thank you very much for informing us about this.

cmacq

11-02-2008, 17:01

You must be relatively new here and do not fully appreciate the derisive history of postings concerning this subject. If Pontius Pilate wants, he could PM me, and I will share it with him.

CmacQ

blitzkrieg80

11-02-2008, 17:57

"i'm only happy when it rains"

Celtic_Punk

11-02-2008, 18:59

I love to laugh at all you clowns who are afraid of a little cold! Give me a pair of boots and I'm fine down to -30 C :canada:

OT- fighting for your life in the thick of battle generates enough heat that youd be sweating buckets. The problem you'd face is supply.

Sarcasm

11-03-2008, 01:54

MerlinusCDXX

11-03-2008, 02:36

Celtic_Punk

11-03-2008, 03:40

Us clowns who prefer heat over cold (prefer doesn't mean can't stand btw), can always dress up for the occasion, so to speak. Question is, what does a bona fide polar bear like yourself do when there's 35ºC in the shade?

I take my shirt off and start drinkin water, I'm a native irishman, but i got hardy'd in Canada, I can stand rain, snow, sleet, blackice, -50 C but when teh heat really turns on, my only sanctuary is drinking lots of water and my pool LOL

Lusitani

11-03-2008, 04:05

Celtic_Punk

11-03-2008, 04:38

Anyone here done the polar dip? i've done it for 8 years now.

cmacq

11-03-2008, 05:48

"i'm only happy when it rains"

sounds very trashy, or something like it?

CmacQ

The Celtic Viking

11-03-2008, 10:54

Us clowns who prefer heat over cold (prefer doesn't mean can't stand btw), can always dress up for the occasion, so to speak. Question is, what does a bona fide polar bear like yourself do when there's 35ºC in the shade?

Enjoy it? That's sure as hell what I did, seeing as I had to go abroad to experience that in the first place. Still prefer the cold weather up here, though.

Anyone here done the polar dip? i've done it for 8 years now.

Guilty as charged, though I'm admittedly not a serial dipper like you. :sweatdrop:

gamerdude873

11-04-2008, 06:23

My biggest problem with hot weather is that i get sunburned easily. I know that you can get sunburned anywhere you go no matter the climate, but the temp out here in Califronia drives me nuts sometimes. I think the first chance i get i'll hightail it up to alaska or someplace tolerable, or at least to a place where people don't look at me funny for wearing shorts all winter.

and wow, this thread has really gone off topic, like my thread about Curoas.

Celtic_Punk

11-04-2008, 09:37

Guilty as charged, though I'm admittedly not a serial dipper like you. :sweatdrop:

Atta-boy! Only real men can survive! I've been the last one out for 5 years now, first one out the first 3. On my fourth year i realized. Its all in yer head. Freezing and Hypothermia are just your mind's way of telling your body "I CANNOT DEAL WITH THE COLD!" Your mind is THE MOST POWERFUL thing in the universe. If you convince yourself you're in a sauna, or that there is no cold at all, You can sit in there all day like a Walrus or something. Thats what shaolin monks have figured out. Thats why it appears that they have magical powers. Its just mind over matter. Thats what the best warriors of ancient would have figured out.

bovi

11-04-2008, 13:43

There are quite a couple of people who in a alcohol haze have decided that it's pretty warm in the snow and it would be a good idea to lay down and have a rest. Their minds typically don't win against reality.