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Banquo's Ghost

11-05-2008, 05:05

So there it is.

President-elect Obama.

I've read this reflection several times, but it bears repeating.

It is an extraordinary tribute to the American Revolution's ability to reinvent itself in every generation, that the 44th President could have been owned as a piece of property by the first 16.

The United States are truly the most astonishing, wonderful country in this world. God Bless her, and all her citizens.

:bow:

KukriKhan

11-05-2008, 05:05

I can't even believe it. We have a hapa President.

Edit: I think of him as hapa, rather than "black." Lemur at least will get it. ;)

hapahaolie.

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 05:06

"Hapa" is a Hawaiian term used to describe a person of mixed Asian or Pacific Islander racial/ethnic heritage

That's the usual connotation as there are so many mixes of Polynesian-Asian-white in Hawaii, but hapa is really any mixed race person.

KarlXII

11-05-2008, 05:09

Tonight, gentlemen, history has been made.

USA Today- Obama with 324 votes. (http://www.usatoday.com/)

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 05:10

Tonight, gentlemen, history has been made.

How'd you vote on Prop 8, Fish?

KukriKhan

11-05-2008, 05:11

Tonight, gentlemen, history has been made.

USA Today- Obama with 324 votes. (http://www.usatoday.com/)

With respect: Nah... one citizen got picked to replace another citizen as Top Citizen. We do it every four years. No biggie. :)

Strike For The South

11-05-2008, 05:12

I just read a facebook status that says and I quote

s leaving the country. Preferably Italy
:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:

seireikhaan

11-05-2008, 05:12

According to Fox, Wicker has held on to his seat in Mississippi, apparently making it highly, highly unlikely that the Democrats will attain a filibuster-proof majority.

JAG

11-05-2008, 05:13

With respect: Nah... one citizen got picked to replace another citizen as Top Citizen. We do it every four years. No biggie. :)

I think you are wrong on that Kukri, it is very much historic and most honourable. Quite brilliant.

Divinus Arma

11-05-2008, 05:13

Ugh. Listening to the commentators. "Black" this and "black" that. Its fricken black history year. Civil rights blah blah blah. What a crock. Get over it. I hate how these **** just keep seperating us on race. I hate it.

I just don't want to hear it. And I voted for the guy.

KarlXII

11-05-2008, 05:14

How'd you vote on Prop 8, Fish?

Should be obvious, but I voted No.

Strike For The South

11-05-2008, 05:14

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 05:14

I think you are wrong on that Kukri, it is very much historic and most honourable. Quite brilliant.

Most if not all American non-whites probably feel this is a very big deal. :)

Edit: Give me a freakin break guys! This is history. This is stuff minorities in this country have wanted and hoped for for three centuries. Getting a President of your race is no big deal if you're a white guy. Let people enjoy it. ;)

KukriKhan

11-05-2008, 05:15

I just read a facebook status that says and I quote

leaving the country. Preferably Italy

:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:

Tell 'im: "Ciao, ya'll".

PBI

11-05-2008, 05:16

Congratulations to President-elect Obama and to America. I hope your choice proves to be the correct one.

As it is 4am here, I bid you all goodnight.:beam:

seireikhaan

11-05-2008, 05:16

Also, congratulations to Obama. I hope he fulfills his promise to work with whomever it takes to make the country a better place. I'd rather not see him and the Dems fall into the same trap that Bush and the Republicans did. A vote is NOT an absolute mandate.

Strike For The South

11-05-2008, 05:17

Tell 'im: "Ciao, ya'll".

its an 'er and I doubt 'er brand of social Protestant conservatism will be welcomed there. Some people Kukri:smash:

CountArach

11-05-2008, 05:18

McCain about to concede.

Divinus Arma

11-05-2008, 05:20

agreed. You voted for him?

Its time to repair our image abroad. We can always go back to bombing everyone in another four years if Obama doesnt do a good job.

woad&fangs

11-05-2008, 05:21

:jester::grin::daisy::toff::bow:~;p:elephant:~:wave::medievalcheers::7teacher::balloon3::balloon3::b alloon3::balloon3::balloon3::balloon3::balloon3::balloon3::balloon3::balloon3::balloon3:
I turn 18 on January 21st. I'm glad I get to start off my "adult" years under Obama. Goodnight everyone:bow:

Strike For The South

11-05-2008, 05:22

Its time to repair our image abroad. We can always go back to bombing everyone in another four years if Obama doesnt do a good job.

Eh its not the time to debate but I must disagree my friend

Divinus Arma

11-05-2008, 05:22

And I dont want hear one more damn word about race from anyone ever again. Especially uneducated idiots in trailer parks or in the ghetto.

This is a postracial generation!

Divinus Arma

11-05-2008, 05:24

Eh its not the time to debate but I must disagree my friend

Plus I'm a union man. I'm sick of seeing the fat cats walk away with millions while the average guy watches his pension and 401k sink with the company he slaved for.

Its time for the pendulum to swing back to the little man!

KukriKhan

11-05-2008, 05:26

I think you are wrong on that Kukri, it is very much historic and most honourable. Quite brilliant.

I take your point, and appreciate your enthusiasm. After all these years, do you not recognize american understatement? I know you haven't seen it very much here in the backroom, but believe me, it is prevalent in all communities here: black, white, brown; rich, poor; privileged, oppressed: it's just not polite to brag too hard.

Unless you're Texan. :wink :

Strike For The South

11-05-2008, 05:28

Plus I'm a union man. I'm sick of seeing the fat cats walk away with millions while the average guy watches his pension and 401k sink with the company he slaved for.

Its time for the pendulum to swing back to the little man!

100% agreed. We should've let them rot with there companies Well considering Im probably going to end up teaching chances are I may end up being in a union but I hate them. They are an old archaic institution. What happened on your sabbactial man? Views changE?

KukriKhan

11-05-2008, 05:28

And I dont want hear one more damn word about race from anyone ever again. Especially uneducated idiots in trailer parks or in the ghetto.

This is a postracial generation!

Hey, I represent that incineration!

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 05:30

Especially uneducated idiots in trailer parks or in the ghetto.

I was gonna say, why are you talking about my 100% white cousins in Ohio?!

Banquo's Ghost

11-05-2008, 05:31

Very dignified and gracious concession speech by Senator McCain.

:bow:

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 05:32

Very dignified and gracious concession speech by Senator McCain.

:bow:

My inner English nazi gave him +++ for saying "an historic campaign."

m52nickerson

11-05-2008, 05:32

I hope Obama offers McCain a cabinet position.

TinCow

11-05-2008, 05:33

Having watched McCain's concession speech, I cannot help but feel great regret that he had to be the one to lose to Obama. I wish it could have been someone else. McCain is a great man and I hope he realizes that his loss was not a repudiation of his person. It will be a dark day when he retires from leading our country.

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 05:34

CountArach

11-05-2008, 05:34

Very dignified and gracious concession speech by Senator McCain.

:bow:
My brother insisted on talking to me during the speech so I didn't hear it :angry:

JAG

11-05-2008, 05:35

McCain's speech was a very good one, a slight shame some people in the crowd couldn't also be sensible about the situation. It is a shame McCain didn't stick to his centrist heart during the campaign, but still - a very good concession speech.

I take your point, and appreciate your enthusiasm. After all these years, do you not recognize american understatement? I know you haven't seen it very much here in the backroom, but believe me, it is prevalent in all communities here: black, white, brown; rich, poor; privileged, oppressed: it's just not polite to brag too hard.

:bow:

seireikhaan

11-05-2008, 05:36

My brother insisted on talking to me during the speech so I didn't hear it :angry:
I can second Banquo's analysis. It was very gracious, very well done. Its moments like that which make me wonder how much the RNC hijacked the McCain campaign.

Seamus Fermanagh

11-05-2008, 05:38

President-elect Obama has altered the political future of the United States.

He and his team have run a wonderfully effective campaign, smoothly transitioning from "We're doing this to season him, through challenger, to gritty combatant to frontrunner to leader of (arguably) the most powerful nation on earth. What I predicted would be his close victory is not -- it is a major victory and may well finish as a landslide.

He, even more than the vast majority of his own party, understood that the moment of change was not 2040, when our demographics will have shifted, but now. The white males, whose vote told all in presidential elections from 1792 to 2004 are no longer the key vote. Crafting an entirely new coalition from under 25s, blacks and hispanics -- augmented by our traditional "left" -- Barack Obama is effecting a sea-change in U.S. politics.

He will not be a one-term President, his charisma and intelligence and the sense of power he is even now conveying to groups of people who have long considered themselves outsiders in American politics (but never will again) will ensure this. His party will be fractious at first -- too many seeking vengeance and sweeping alterations -- but over time will come closer and closer to his leadership because, unlike the consumate politician Bill Clinton, Obama has a vision for a new America. Moreover, since that vision ties closely to the vision many of our newest citizens and will-be citizens seek, it will develop deeper and more lasting roots than any political agenda since FDR.

We will hear the usual voices in chorus tomorrow, asserting that this was not Obama's victory as much as George Bush's defeat, and some of the traditional leftists will even say the same. This is not so. Nobody wins such a compelling victory across so many states -- many of them formerly staunch components of the "victory map" of the other party, by being the alternative. Barack Obama is the chosen leader of the American people.

Over the next year, we will come to understand how he intends to govern. Disputes will be had, and arguments will ensue. He has won, however, a precious gift -- the chance to stamp his imprint on the future of a nation, and because of that nation's influence, on the direction of a world. Let us hope and pray he discharges this duty well.

CountArach

11-05-2008, 05:42

It looks like California is going to ban gay marriage.

seireikhaan

11-05-2008, 05:43

It looks like Claifornia is going to ban gay marriage.
Wow, didn't see that coming.

CountArach

11-05-2008, 05:44

Wow, didn't see that coming.
Obama winning early on probably dampened turnout amongst liberals, whereas the Christian Right was more mobilised in supporting the ban.

EDIT: That said, these are only preliminary results and it could well change once the urban vote comes in more. Either way its going to be close.

Tribesman

11-05-2008, 05:47

Well I must say after watching McCain do his speech ....where was that man during the election and who was the muppet campaigning in his identity ?

JAG

11-05-2008, 05:47

wow, didn't see California going that way.

Seamus Fermanagh

11-05-2008, 05:49

Well I must say after watching McCain do his speech ....where was that man during the election and who was the muppet campaigning in his identity ?

True of all of them, both parties (and your side of the pond too?). They finally get to say what they really feel since they don't need to be so bloody concerned about not saying the wrong thing. Result = actual passion.

JAG

11-05-2008, 05:49

Well I must say after watching McCain do his speech ....where was that man during the election and who was the muppet campaigning in his identity ?

:yes:

And it is what most pundits are saying - he decided early in Bush's term that if he was going to be the next GOP nominee he was going to have to be that kind of candidate. He then went further in the campaign and was forced - or misguided - into going for Palin over Lieberman... It would have been so much closer if he ditched the radical right wing agenda.

Gregoshi

11-05-2008, 05:52

And so it begins...

Congratulations to Barack Obama. Just seeing the reaction here at the Org, around the US and elsewhere is very encouraging. President-elect Obama will have a lot of good will in his corner when he starts his presidency. May he use it wisely.

Seamus Fermanagh

11-05-2008, 05:53

:yes:

And it is what most pundits are saying - he decided early in Bush's term that if he was going to be the next GOP nominee he was going to have to be that kind of candidate. He then went further in the campaign and was forced - or misguided - into going for Palin over Lieberman... It would have been so much closer if he ditched the radical right wing agenda.

Not so. With Leiberman and without Palin too many of the GOP social conservatives would have stayed home. There was no changing this result -- Obama won it on his own merits, not on McCain's limitations or even the limitations imposed on McCain by his party.

CountArach

11-05-2008, 05:53

The exit polls say that the gay marriage ban will fail 52/48, but the exit polls aren't all that accurate and it is still within the MoE:
http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1

Divinus Arma

11-05-2008, 05:53

The white males, whose vote told all in presidential elections from 1792 to 2004 are no longer the key vote.

Without a significant portion of the white male vote, he wouldn't have won. Don't go counting your illegal aliens until they've hatched.

Divinus Arma

11-05-2008, 05:55

How long before Bin Laden Slaps us?

JAG

11-05-2008, 05:56

Without a significant portion of the white male vote, he wouldn't have won. Don't go counting your illegal aliens until they've hatched.

Agreed, he won a lot more of the White vote than Kerry 4 years ago, it went a long way to getting him elected.

Not so. With Leiberman and without Palin too many of the GOP social conservatives would have stayed home. There was no changing this result -- Obama won it on his own merits, not on McCain's limitations or even the limitations imposed on McCain by his party.

Well, I disagree. :) But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter too much! :balloon2:

GeneralHankerchief

11-05-2008, 05:57

Okay, switching to the Senate, CNN has it right now 56-40 for the Dems. There are four states that still haven't been called yet: Alaska, Georgia, Oregon, and Minnesota.

Alaska: No results as of yet, but I'm assuming that Begich will defeat the recently-convicted Ted Stevens. Dem pickup.
Georgia: Chambliss is up 52-44% on Martin. Looks like a Republican hold.
Oregon: With 31% reporting, Merkley (D) has a 2-point lead over Smith. Assuming trends hold, Dem pickup.
Minnesota: The closest race, currently tied 42-42 with Coleman up by 2,000 votes.

So, with Minnesota in the balance, it looks like the Democrats will hold 58 or 59 Senate seats. I predict Coleman will beat Franken by the skin of his teeth, so it looks like 58. Maybe if Lieberman gets thrown out, 57. But there won't be 60.

Gregoshi

11-05-2008, 05:58

Well I must say after watching McCain do his speech ....where was that man during the election and who was the muppet campaigning in his identity ?
Yes. The campaign was not worthy of the man. However, I don't think the reaction to a McCain win would have been quite is positive as that of Obama.

Obama is about to speak...

JAG

11-05-2008, 05:59

Lets see what he has to say - I reckon it will be a good 'un.

KukriKhan

11-05-2008, 06:04

Moderators will be doing the "shut up" job here. Thanks.

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 06:08

How long before Bin Laden Slaps us?

Did you vote for the guy or not?

CountArach

11-05-2008, 06:16

The speech was alright - it picked up a bit towards the end.

JAG

11-05-2008, 06:17

Yep, was a good 'un.

Lemur

11-05-2008, 06:17

Martok

11-05-2008, 06:29

WOOT!!!

That is all. ~:)

Lemur

11-05-2008, 06:35

ICantSpellDawg

11-05-2008, 06:40

A final pre-bed thought: I know the odds were always low that the Dems would achieve the magic 60 in the Senate, but still I'm glad they didn't get it. That would have been too much temptation for any party. Which is not to say that they may not already have too much temptation, what with holding both houses of Congress and the Executive. But I have some degree of faith that President-elect Obama will whip his unruly party into line and get them doing something productive.

Forcing the Dems to move their party headquarters to Chicago was a masterstroke.

Part of me hopes that the Dems screw this country to the wall for this. The reasonable pragmatist in me hopes that the Democrats fix what they can and then get crushed in 4 or 8 years.

Obama is a real talent. I just hope that talent falls flat on abortion and translates beyond words. The success that he has had with his fabricated message of "crossing the isle" might stick since it has worked so well for him. Hopefully hey buys his own narrative.

Sasaki Kojiro

11-05-2008, 06:41

Obama speech started out good but I don't see how "yes we can" is a timeless creed.

Obama/biden certainly exceeded expectations. My optimistic prediction in late september was Obama: 329 McCain:209. Passed that already.

CountArach

11-05-2008, 06:44

The reasonable pragmatist in me hopes that the Democrats fix what they can and then get crushed in 4 or 8 years.
No party can fix things and not get re-elected. Even in America.

Sasaki Kojiro

11-05-2008, 06:47

It'll be interesting. George Bush messed things up and still got reelected. Obama won't have trouble. He runs too good a campaign to be blamed for the economic woes that we will still be experiencing.

deguerra

11-05-2008, 06:52

Obama speech started out good but I don't see how "yes we can" is a timeless creed.

Granted, the phrase itself may not be, but the idea behind it surely is.

It is the shaping impulse of America that neither fate nor nature nor the irresistible tides of history, but the work of our own hands, matched to reason and principle, that will determine our destiny.

Don Corleone

11-05-2008, 06:53

So I watched President-elect Obama's acceptance speech tonight and I was touched. He was focused, on point, gracious, and truly seemed to be making an effort to reach out tonight. Mrs. Corleone sat me down tonight and suggested perhaps I'd been drinking too much of the Kool-Aid in these past few days. I suspect, as always, she may have been right.

I do predict that taxes will go up for everyone who's household clears 70k or more, but now that the rational side of my brain has been restored to me, I can say that it's not really mine, I owe it to the next generation to leave a functioning economy to them and I do believe my new president will do his best to make that happen. If I lose my house, well, God provides.

I apologize for getting a little too full of piss down the stretch. I will not edit my prior post, as I don't want to pretend I didn't say what I said, but I will say I do not actually expect the worst. I will do my best to see that my new President's promises come true and I will not be partisan, I will work to fulfill America's promise. 2012 will be here soon enough.

CountArach

11-05-2008, 06:56

JAG

11-05-2008, 07:00

Gonna be damn interesting the next few weeks / months, to see who is in his administration.

OverKnight

11-05-2008, 07:03

So, less than 1500 days to the next Presidential Election!!!!! Who does everyone see as the front runners?

Just kidding. While I'm glad that Obama won, I'm relieved that we get a break from campaigning for a few years. A part of me envies the much shorter campaign season of Parliamentary systems.

So what's the over under on how many fillibusters we're going to see in the next year?

Meneldil

11-05-2008, 07:03

Maybe that's because I've been quite disapointed by politics, but I found the speech rather boring. Nothing but catch-sentences ("We can !", already tired by this one) and the usual lies served by any elected guy. I can't understand why people were looking at him as he was some kind of god.

But he at least had a good point. America shown us a great lesson of 'democracy' by electing an african-american.
European snobish and arrogant intellectual elites might think twice before criticizing the US for all and nothing now.

Divinus Arma

11-05-2008, 07:09

Ever heard the term "Magical Negro"?

Hollywood's embracement of the magical negro is what paved the way for Obama. Not the civil rights movement.

Mother Abagail in The Stand
John Coffey in The Green Mile
Bagger Vance in The Legend of Bagger Vance
God (Morgan Freeman) in Evan Almighty
Morpheus in The Matrix
Lamont in American History X
Chubbs in Happy Gilmore

I'm sure there is a lot more.

Anyway. America now has a wise and all-powerful Magical Negro to help lift up the poor lost white man from his current predicament.

I know now that America will be safe and prosperous, a moral leader of the free world once again! :2thumbsup:

My prediction: Obama will be Prez for 8 years and go on to to lead the UN and oversee its rise to power. Then he will declare himself God before demanding we all tattoo ourselves.

Just kidding about the second part. But I do think he will go on to lead the UN as Secretary General and oversee its growth.

Incongruous

11-05-2008, 07:46

Although increadibly tasteless and perhaps borderline racist, I found that increadibly funny.:help:

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 07:47

perhaps borderline racist

Perhaps? ;)

Heinrich VI

11-05-2008, 07:47

THANK YOU AMERICA!

and off to bed - it's 7:30am here...

Incongruous

11-05-2008, 07:50

Perhaps? ;)

Ok, it was racist, but tbh I am not sure whether or not he is being serious:dizzy2:

PanzerJaeger

11-05-2008, 08:04

JAG

11-05-2008, 08:11

PJ - if you think Obama is a 'Carter' you have underestimated him.

SO, as Indiana is called for Obama by 1% - damn I said he would win by 2 at the start of all this - I am going to go to bed.

7.15 am up all night, well worth it.

Woot, woot.

:bow: to the USA!

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 08:13

I will say that it will be nice to be off the defensive. It's always easier to complain and criticize than to have to try and get things done. I predict the honeymoon won't even last 100 days... Carter anyone?

Anyone thought Obama was walking into a honeymoon? In seriousness Panzer, this whole "he thinks he's Messiah and his supporters do too" thing was pure pundit/Fox koolaid. Obama has never said anything would be easy or quick nor do I think Dems in general think "woohoo the country is now our playdough fun factory." This was like inheriting someone's mansion, with the caveat that the yard is full of radioactive waste and you have to clean it up yourself.

PJ - if you think Obama is a 'Carter' you are have underestimated him.

Don't you mean misunderestimated? :)

LittleGrizzly

11-05-2008, 08:57

He, even more than the vast majority of his own party, understood that the moment of change was not 2040, when our demographics will have shifted, but now. The white males, whose vote told all in presidential elections from 1792 to 2004 are no longer the key vote. Crafting an entirely new coalition from under 25s, blacks and hispanics -- augmented by our traditional "left" -- Barack Obama is effecting a sea-change in U.S. politics.

This is what i was referring to with my reegan comment, not the margin of victory... which is highly impressive, but a sea change in american politics... and about damn time

McCain's speech was great! so gracious in defeat, i gained alot of respect for him off that speech and his silencing off the boo's, I too am deeply upset that it had to be mccain that was defeated by obama, almost any other member of the gop and really wouldn't give a damn, but mccain despite his campaign is something a bit different...

I really really hope Obama can include him in his goverment, mccain deserves nothing less

Don im glad the kool aid has worn off slightly... Ill admit i cant now this, but do you really think obama will make the middle classes (im thinking around your income) homeless ? even if there where some greater idealogical goal driving him the simple bad politics of such a move, will mean he will not... Redleg's post in the old election thread probably summed the situation up quite well..

A great day for american politics!

Im about to write a very long post on all the reasons this is so great.... the anticipation is killing you already ?

Crazed Rabbit

11-05-2008, 08:58

Well, let's hope he's a good president.

And I still hope Rossi is elected. Oh, please give me at least that.

CR
Edit: xkcd brings us inside the homes of CA and Lemur:
https://img393.imageshack.us/img393/558/electionwh0.png

LittleGrizzly

11-05-2008, 09:07

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

CountArach

11-05-2008, 09:36

TBH... that's entirely true.

CountArach

11-05-2008, 09:44

I have to say it.

HOW IN THE HELL IS SENATOR TUBES STEVENS STILL WINNING!?!?!

Kagemusha

11-05-2008, 09:47

Congratulations to US for getting a new president. Hopefully all the neocons and their unilateralistic policies will be thrown in the garbage and the new US government will turn the country back to US into the US, which the rest of the world has become used to know and love. Hopefully this change will also remedy the trans atlantic relations so US and EU can work together to fight off the world wide depression and any other threats glooming in the horizon. Hopefully this will mean real change.:yes:

naut

11-05-2008, 09:54

I have to say it.

HOW IN THE HELL IS SENATOR TUBES STEVENS STILL WINNING!?!?!
Well, despite the charges against him he's still a respected figure there. Plus the "Palin effect" probably has something to do with it.

Andres

11-05-2008, 09:59

Okay, this is really petty, but the theological/grammatical side of me is really pleased when a politician uses the correct formulation: "May God continue to bless the United States of America," as opposed to "God bless America." You're not pretending to know God's will, you're just saying that you hope God will look favorably on your nation.

A minor quibble, but it drives me nuts when politicos get it wrong.

-edit-

Just to make it crystal clear: the inclusion of the word "may" is what sets the correct version apart from the idiot version.

But when he uses "May God continue to bless...", he also pretends to know God's will, namely God's will in the past, since by using "continue to bless", he implies that God is blessing America now and has been blessing it in the past.

I think the correct version should be "May God bless the United States of America".

:coffeenews:

Xiahou

11-05-2008, 10:00

I have to say it.

HOW IN THE HELL IS SENATOR TUBES STEVENS STILL WINNING!?!?!
Well, were I in Alaska, I'd probably vote for him with the knowledge/hope that once he goes to jail and resigns, Palin will get to appoint his replacement. :beam:

CountArach

11-05-2008, 10:03

I just... am so amazed that anyone could vote for a man who is a convicted felon... I mean... seriously... it boggles my mind...

Ronin

11-05-2008, 10:10

Congrats to America on your new president..

and a deep thank you for keeping that woman out of the oval office....you can actually hear the world give a sigh of relief.

Pannonian

11-05-2008, 10:50

CountArach

11-05-2008, 11:28

Can you explain to a Brit?
Washington is full of people who have distinct ideas about how to win an election and about how things should be done. Chicago on the other hand, is underutilised by campaigns as it has a lot of very highly educated professionals (lawyers, etc) who can give a fresh perspective on things. Plus it borders on Indiana, which apparently helped.

OverKnight

11-05-2008, 11:31

If Stevens wins and then resigns, Palin could appoint herself as his replacement, correct?

Whilly stunningly Machiavellian, I could see it happening.

As for electing convicted felons: I give you a local Massachusetts folk hero:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Michael_Curley

He served in various municipal offices and one term in the Massachusetts House of Representatives (1902-1903). He is noted for having been elected to the Board of Aldermen in 1904 while in prison, having been convicted of fraud. Curley and an associate, Thomas Curley (no relation) took the civil service exams for postmen for two men in their district to help them get the jobs with the federal government. Though the incident gave him a dark reputation in respectable circles, it aided his image in working class or poor circles because they saw him as a man willing to stick his neck out to help a poor man.

. . .Curley's popularity within Boston remained high – despite even a felony indictment in 1943 for influence peddling, which stemmed from his involvement with a consulting firm seeking to secure defense contracts. On the slogan "Curley Gets Things Done" he won an unprecedented fourth term as mayor of Boston in 1945. A federal jury then found him guilty of the felony charges, but he remained mayor even after he entered a federal penitentiary in 1947, serving until 1949.

In 1947, during his last mayoral term, he was convicted for a second time on federal charges of official misconduct, including mail fraud. He spent five months in jail during this term, but still retained a considerable degree of popularity with the working classes. Out of political expediency and because of pressure from the Massachusetts congressional delegation, President Harry Truman pardoned him, enabling his release.

He was a corrupt politician, but he was their corrupt politician. I'm sure the same thinking applies in Alaska.

Beirut

11-05-2008, 11:48

Yeah baby! :sunny:

God bless the United States of America!
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/horsesass/Americanflag.jpg

Hosakawa Tito

11-05-2008, 11:50

Can you explain to a Brit?

The "magic 60" refers to a filibuster-proof majority of 60 Senate seats and would virtually prevent the minority opposition party from blocking legislation on the Senate floor.

Definition of filibuster: The legislative tactic of delaying a vote on a controversial matter through protracted debate. A tool occasionally used by the minority party in the US Senate where unlimited debate can be ended only by a successful cloture vote.

Not putting words into Lemur's mouth, but what he means is that he'd rather not see the Democratic Party majority have unopposed power to ramrod their agenda through the House & Senate without having to "reach across the aisle" to the Republican Party minority. Legislate by consensus and deference, not by fiat.

I agree with Lem. This kind of legislative dominance really brings out the dark side of political human nature and partisanship.

GLAD TO SEE YOU BEIRUT!!!

Beirut

11-05-2008, 12:07

You too, Hosa. :sunny:

Couldn't pass the day without a hello to my American friends on this incredible day.

Excelsior! I think the whole world is happy today. :balloon3:

InsaneApache

11-05-2008, 12:18

Yeah baby! :sunny:

God bless the United States of America!
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/horsesass/Americanflag.jpg

I concur. Congratulations to the Democrats, commiserations to the GOP. Fascinating to follow from the 'right' side of the pond. :disguise:

BTW. Nice to see you around Beirut. You've been missed.

CountArach

11-05-2008, 12:47

BTW. Nice to see you around Beirut. You've been missed.
Yeah IA said it. I hope your life is shaping up as you have wanted.

LittleGrizzly

11-05-2008, 12:55

Ahh my favourite middle eastern place, your wit and intelligence has been greatly missed!

Hooahguy

11-05-2008, 13:12

well, obama is our new president.
now i wonder if ill keep my job.......
(the buisness i work for is one of those "big" small buisnesses that obama promised to raise taxes on.
but now, IMO, obama built himself up so high and promised so much, i dont think half of what he said will be carried out.
anyhow, obamaran a great campaign and i congradulate him and his supporters. may the next 4 years be prosperous for everyone.

Banquo's Ghost

11-05-2008, 14:15

Hey Beirut, wonderful to see you popping by. You have been hugely missed. :bow:

PBI

11-05-2008, 14:33

seireikhaan

11-05-2008, 14:43

Nice to see the friendly, neighborhood lumberjack. Welcome back Beirut, even if only for a moment! :sunny:

Ice

11-05-2008, 14:47

Lemur

11-05-2008, 14:53

An interesting take over at Beliefnet (http://blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2008/11/the-poetic-symmetry-of-history.html):

The modern conservative movement began with the crushing defeat of Arizona Sen. Barry Goldwater in the 1964 presidential race. The modern conservative movement ends with the crushing defeat of Arizona Sen. John McCain -- who took Goldwater's Senate seat upon his retirement -- in the 2008 presidential race.
Modern liberalism began its implosion with riots in Chicago's Grant Park at the 1968 Democratic Convention. Tonight, modern liberalism is reborn at Chicago's Grant Park, where a black Chicago Democrat will celebrate winning the presidency.

Sasaki Kojiro

11-05-2008, 14:59

At least the election is over. Now I won't be harassed daily by Obama people asking me if I have voted or who i am voting for on the way to work.

Oh yeah, glad the marijuana thing passed in Michigan. One more state thumbing their noses at the Feds.

Well, they aren't thumbing their nose at the feds anymore :balloon2:

Interesting tidbits:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581

* The Obama campaign was provided with reports from the Secret Service showing a sharp and disturbing increase in threats to Obama in September and early October, at the same time that many crowds at Palin rallies became more frenzied. Michelle Obama was shaken by the vituperative crowds and the hot rhetoric from the GOP candidates. "Why would they try to make people hate us?" Michelle asked a top campaign aide.
* On the Sunday night before the last debate, McCain's core group of advisers—Steve Schmidt, Rick Davis, adman Fred Davis, strategist Greg Strimple, pollster Bill McInturff and strategy director Sarah Simmons—met to decide whether to tell McCain that the race was effectively over, that he no longer had a chance to win. The consensus in the room was no, not yet, not while he still had "a pulse."
* The Obama campaign's New Media experts created a computer program that would allow a "flusher"—the term for a volunteer who rounds up nonvoters on Election Day—to know exactly who had, and had not, voted in real time. They dubbed it Project Houdini, because of the way names disappear off the list instantly once people are identified as they wait in line at their local polling station.
* Palin launched her attack on Obama's association with William Ayers, the former Weather Underground bomber, before the campaign had finalized a plan to raise the issue. McCain's advisers were working on a strategy that they hoped to unveil the following week, but McCain had not signed off on it, and top adviser Mark Salter was resisting.
* McCain also was reluctant to use Obama's incendiary pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, as a campaign issue. The Republican had set firm boundaries: no Jeremiah Wright; no attacking Michelle Obama; no attacking Obama for not serving in the military. McCain balked at an ad using images of children that suggested that Obama might not protect them from terrorism. Schmidt vetoed ads suggesting that Obama was soft on crime (no Willie Hortons). And before word even got to McCain, Schmidt and Salter scuttled a "celebrity" ad of Obama dancing with talk-show host Ellen DeGeneres (the sight of a black man dancing with a lesbian was deemed too provocative).
* Obama was never inclined to choose Sen. Hillary Clinton as his running mate, not so much because she had been his sometime bitter rival on the campaign trail, but because of her husband. Still, as Hillary's name came up in veep discussions, and Obama's advisers gave all the reasons why she should be kept off the ticket, Obama would stop and ask, "Are we sure?" He needed to be convinced one more time that the Clintons would do more harm than good. McCain, on the other hand, was relieved to face Sen. Joe Biden as the veep choice, and not Hillary Clinton, whom the McCain camp had truly feared.
* McCain was dumbfounded when Congressman John Lewis, a civil-rights hero, issued a press release comparing the GOP nominee with former Alabama governor George Wallace, a segregationist infamous for stirring racial fears. McCain had devoted a chapter to Lewis in one of his books, "Why Courage Matters," and had so admired Lewis that he had once taken his children to meet him.
* On the night she officially lost the Democratic nomination, Hillary Clinton enjoyed a long and friendly phone conversation with McCain. Clinton was actually on better terms with McCain than she was with Obama. Clinton and McCain had downed shots together on Senate junkets; they regarded each other as grizzled veterans of the political wars and shared a certain disdain for Obama as flashy and callow.
* At the GOP convention in St. Paul, Palin was completely unfazed by the boys' club fraternity she had just joined. One night, Steve Schmidt and Mark Salter went to her hotel room to brief her. After a minute, Palin sailed into the room wearing nothing but a towel, with another on her wet hair. She told them to chat with her laconic husband, Todd. "I'll be just a minute," she said.
* The debates unnerved both candidates. When he was preparing for them during the Democratic primaries, Obama was recorded saying, "I don't consider this to be a good format for me, which makes me more cautious. I often find myself trapped by the questions and thinking to myself, 'You know, this is a stupid question, but let me … answer it.' So when Brian Williams is asking me about what's a personal thing that you've done [that's green], and I say, you know, 'Well, I planted a bunch of trees.' And he says, 'I'm talking about personal.' What I'm thinking in my head is, 'Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I -------- changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective'."

The computer systems of both the Obama and McCain campaigns were victims of a sophisticated cyberattack by an unknown "foreign entity," prompting a federal investigation, NEWSWEEK reports today.

At the Obama headquarters in midsummer, technology experts detected what they initially thought was a computer virus—a case of "phishing," a form of hacking often employed to steal passwords or credit-card numbers. But by the next day, both the FBI and the Secret Service came to the campaign with an ominous warning: "You have a problem way bigger than what you understand," an agent told Obama's team. "You have been compromised, and a serious amount of files have been loaded off your system." The following day, Obama campaign chief David Plouffe heard from White House chief of staff Josh Bolten, to the same effect: "You have a real problem ... and you have to deal with it." The Feds told Obama's aides in late August that the McCain campaign's computer system had been similarly compromised. A top McCain official confirmed to NEWSWEEK that the campaign's computer system had been hacked and that the FBI had become involved.

Officials at the FBI and the White House told the Obama campaign that they believed a foreign entity or organization sought to gather information on the evolution of both camps' policy positions—information that might be useful in negotiations with a future administration. The Feds assured the Obama team that it had not been hacked by its political opponents. (Obama technical experts later speculated that the hackers were Russian or Chinese.) A security firm retained by the Obama campaign took steps to secure its computer system and end the intrusion. White House and FBI officials had no comment earlier this week.

NEWSWEEK has also learned that Palin's shopping spree at high-end department stores was more extensive than previously reported. While publicly supporting Palin, McCain's top advisers privately fumed at what they regarded as her outrageous profligacy. One senior aide said that Nicolle Wallace had told Palin to buy three suits for the convention and hire a stylist. But instead, the vice presidential nominee began buying for herself and her family—clothes and accessories from top stores such as Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus. According to two knowledgeable sources, a vast majority of the clothes were bought by a wealthy donor, who was shocked when he got the bill. Palin also used low-level staffers to buy some of the clothes on their credit cards. The McCain campaign found out last week when the aides sought reimbursement. One aide estimated that she spent "tens of thousands" more than the reported $150,000, and that $20,000 to $40,000 went to buy clothes for her husband. Some articles of clothing have apparently been lost. An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as "Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast," and said the truth will eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books.

A Palin aide said: "Governor Palin was not directing staffers to put anything on their personal credit cards, and anything that staffers put on their credit cards has been reimbursed, like an expense. Nasty and false accusations following a defeat say more about the person who made them than they do about Governor Palin."

McCain himself rarely spoke to Palin during the campaign, and aides kept him in the dark about the details of her spending on clothes because they were sure he would be offended. Palin asked to speak along with McCain at his Arizona concession speech Tuesday night, but campaign strategist Steve Schmidt vetoed the request.

Andres

11-05-2008, 15:00

Good to see you again, Beirut :sunny:

Seamus Fermanagh

11-05-2008, 15:05

So I was wondering, what exactly happens next? Am I right in thinking that although the election is over, Obama will not actually be in power until he is sworn in in January, so the next two months all he will be doing is to decide what he will do once he does take power?

I.e., if there is a big crisis in the next month, it will still be Bush's job to deal with it, not Obama's?

Apologies if these are silly questions, it's just that in the UK power changes hands quite quickly after an election so it seems a bit odd that in the US there is a two-month delay; I wasn't sure whether this is purely a ceremonial thing and Obama, although not technically President yet, has actual control between now and January.

And as others have said, it is great to see you again Beirut.:beam:

Nice to hear from you tree-killer!

PBI, you are correct to wonder. Technically, President-Elect Obama was not elected last night. US citizens chose a massive slate of electors who are committed to vote for Obama in the College of Electors. This College will meet in December and cast the actual votes that will name Barack H. Obama President of the USA. However, that vote will not be certified until 6 January 2009 as -- mandated by the Constitution -- the first item of business for the new Congress. Only then will Obama have been elected President. In practice, however, it is a done deal and he will take a week off to recover and then begin his transition to power.

President Bush will continue to exercise all of the Presidency]s executive powers until Noon on 20 January 2009. He will then, in that moment, have no powers other than those possessed by any other ordinary citizen. In practice, however, the "lame duck" President wields very limited influence and carries little weight in any role aside from Commander in Chief. He can still sign executive orders and issue sweeping pardons, but the incumbent's ability to influence the agenda of events is very limited. The outgoing President usually works with the President-elect to promote a smooth transition, but not always. I would predict that George Bush will be very supportive and helpful to Obama -- though the Obama team may prefer to thank him for that effort but do things a different way.

The President-elects influence over things begins immediately -- he will be consulted in all things -- but his power to make decisions etc. will not begin until January. No appointment he makes, no directive he issues, no order he signs is valid as a Presidential order until his innauguration. However, the informal power he wields as the up-and-coming leader and his influence over his party's agenda and the decisions made in Congress in the "lame duck" session start immediately.

Be happy, though. In the old days, the innauguration was on 4 March!

PBI

11-05-2008, 15:12

Thanks for the concise yet complete answer Seamus. :bow:

Lemur

11-05-2008, 15:19

Wow, if you want to see the textbook definition of "bitter," just spend some time reading the NRO's reactions (http://corner.nationalreview.com/) today.

I extend my congratulations mainly in the same sense that elderly British veterans of my acquaintance like to express their admiration of the marvelously innovative ways their Japanese captors found to torture them. The President-elect ran rings round our side, and found many novel ways to torture us.

Prince Cobra

11-05-2008, 15:20

For me the struggle for the President post was over before it began. It was quite obvious Obama will win (mainly because of the financial chaos in USA)... As far as Bush failure in the foreign policy, his reelection made me think most of the Amercians vote not for foreign policy but for better internal policy... McCain could not persuade most of the voters in better future with the Republicans(how could he in this crisis??) so I think it was quite clear who would win... I do not expect wonders but I am inquisitive what the first steps of the new US President will be.

Fragony

11-05-2008, 15:40

I am inquisitive what the first steps of the new US President will be.

Won't be long before he is tested, Russia, missile shield, probably hot talk in the Kremlin as I write this :yes:

Anyway congrats america a black president that is quite something. I hope it will be for the best and not kick back with a desillusioned vengeance.

BigTex

11-05-2008, 15:43

So apparently it only takes 1 billion devalued U.S. peso's to buy the presidency. Much lower then I had expected, was hopping it'd be sold for at least 3. Being the one of the largest contributors to the democratic campaign is quite possibly one of the only intelligent investments fannie may and freddie mac have made in recent years.

Hooahguy

11-05-2008, 16:08

ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88

11-05-2008, 16:09

Obama Won... Jesus.... Help us all :sweatdrop:

LittleGrizzly

11-05-2008, 16:14

Obama won jesus ?!

hell, what other cool perks does the president get ?

Hooahguy

11-05-2008, 16:17

Obama Won... Jesus.... Help us all :sweatdrop:
welcome, Comrade, to the United Soviet Socialist States of America.....
he, jk.
:daisy:

ICantSpellDawg

11-05-2008, 16:24

http://www.laughatliberals.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/obama-emporer.jpg

Godspeed You Black Emperor

I'm glad that you Euro fellas are happy with this outcome. It must be hard year after year to be utterly ruled by a president whose election you have no sway in, eh? Maybe this will take away the sting.

If Obama stays to the right where he has positioned himself during the election and doesn't sign that FOCA, I may warm to him. He is easily likable and as long as prop 8 passes and Foca stays off the table I wont writhe in agony all that much.

Ronin

11-05-2008, 16:25

hell, what other cool perks does the president get ?

Whenever he orders mexican, the president gets free guacamole

Crazed Rabbit

11-05-2008, 16:44

I-1000 (Doctor assisted suicide, opposed by the American Medical Association and requiring falsification of death certificates) passed up here in WA,
as did I-1209, a big gimme to unions that couldn't even pass in our legislature,
And it looks like Rossi is losing, because of crowds of morons in Seattle.

At least Darcy Burner, idiot extraordinaire, is losing.

CR

Big_John

11-05-2008, 17:01

Tellos Athenaios

11-05-2008, 17:20

I'm glad that you Euro fellas are happy with this outcome. It must be hard year after year to be utterly ruled by a president whose election you have no sway in, eh? Maybe this will take away the sting.

I'll be glad when Obama shows sufficiently more practical, common, political sense than Bush -- in office. The fact that America & its media are voluntarily almost isolated from the rest of the world (missile shield, almost sounds like Bush was even detached from the 'real' American world) is telling.

Ah well, if the (ironically, US American) futurologists get it right this will be the Century of China anyways -- so we need not worry about USA as much; then we can all (US Americans more than anyone, 'cause it's Chinese money the US Americans are living off) be happy when the 'right one' next Chinese Communist Party President gets voted to power.

Caius

11-05-2008, 17:45

America has chosen McObama. The Game is over for Ocain. If he could help the rest of the world...

BTW, welcome back Beirut!

Hooahguy

11-05-2008, 18:20

I'll be glad when Obama shows sufficiently more practical, common, political sense than Bush -- in office. The fact that America & its media are voluntarily almost isolated from the rest of the world (missile shield, almost sounds like Bush was even detached from the 'real' American world) is telling.

Ah well, if the (ironically, US American) futurologists get it right this will be the Century of China anyways -- so we need not worry about USA as much; then we can all (US Americans more than anyone, 'cause it's Chinese money the US Americans are living off) be happy when the 'right one' next Chinese Communist Party President gets voted to power.
well, we dont know if he will show better practical, common, political sense than Bush....
not until he gets into office.

so "when" isnt correct here, but "if," IMO.

Dutch_guy

11-05-2008, 18:24

I'm glad that you Euro fellas are happy with this outcome. It must be hard year after year to be utterly ruled by a president whose election you have no sway in, eh?

The hardest part was seeing such a powerful nation being represented by that anti-president Bush. So yes, we're all pretty happy with this. :beam:

:balloon2:

Tellos Athenaios

11-05-2008, 18:26

well, we dont know if he will show better practical, common, political sense than Bush....
not until he gets into office.

so "when" isnt correct here, but "if," IMO.

Yes. You are right: Obama isn't in office yet.

Hooahguy

11-05-2008, 18:28

no, the point was that you were talking about obama as if his success in the white house was guaranteed. nothing in this world is guaranteed, not even for a "messiah" like obama.

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 18:37

He is easily likable and as long as prop 8 passes and Foca stays off the table I wont writhe in agony all that much.

Even if (no on) 8 passes why would that be a black mark against Obama? He had nothing to do with it. It's a state issue.

Lemur

11-05-2008, 18:37

Best comment on the election so far, courtesy of Slashdot (http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/05/134208&from=rss):

"I think Washington D.C. will become a radioactive wasteland and the survivors will spend their waking hours hunting mutant ants in collapsed subways. Oh, wait. My copy of Fallout 3 arrived yesterday and that's all I can think about."

Hooahguy

11-05-2008, 18:44

good Conservative/Libritarian summary of the election, by Neal Boortz:
here (http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html)

Lemur

11-05-2008, 18:48

Wow, bitter, party of one?

Tellos Athenaios

11-05-2008, 18:49

no, the point was that you were talking about obama as if his success in the white house was guaranteed. nothing in this world is guaranteed, not even for a "messiah" like obama.

Begging your pardon, but no I wasn't really. Unless in America "I'll be glad if" means something completely different from what it seems to mean in the rest of the world. In which case my apologies for the misunderstanding, I was intending to convey the notion that I'm not happy on account of Obama's election just yet, but provided that he shows sufficiently more practical, common, political sense than Bush did, while in office then I'll be glad. Hope it's better this way?

Tellos Athenaios

11-05-2008, 18:53

Wow, bitter, party of one?

It's quite funny in a very sad way, though. Compare it [Boortz' article] to The Onion article posted by you in the Weird News thread. http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nation_finally_shitty_enough_to?utm_source=onion_rss_daily

That just makes your day doesn't it? Especially when you read the disclaimer about Hate Speech and realise...
I can see that Fairness Doctrine getting somewhere like that.

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 19:08

It's quite funny in a very sad way, though. Compare it [Boortz' article] to The Onion article posted by you in the Weird News thread. http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nation_finally_shitty_enough_to?utm_source=onion_rss_daily

That just makes your day doesn't it? Especially when you read the disclaimer about Hate Speech and realise...
I can see that Fairness Doctrine getting somewhere like that.

"After enduring eight years of near constant trauma, the United States is, at long last, ready for equality."

That line was great.

I can understand partisans being bitter about yesterday. What really perplexed me was when partisan Republicans were sore winners in 2000 and 2004. If we (Dems) were Republicans, I suppose right about now we'd be discussing which sub-basements we're going to force the Republican minority subcommittees to go have their meetings in and not let them have use of any meeting facilities.

Louis VI the Fat

11-05-2008, 19:51

Congratulations to Obama.
I'll celebrate if and when Obama shows sufficiently more practical, common, political sense than Bush - in office.

I just heard McCain's speech. Absolutely beautiful. America can be proud that a man like McCain has wished to serve it.

~+~+~+<-(^)->+~+~+~

I couldn't help but notice...everywhere I went today, I saw smiling Black faces. They walked prouder, more upright, laughed harder. Our Black security officer wore his tie straight, he stood upright most of the day, projecting welcome to our guests, instead of just sitting behind his desk.

There was nothing truly unusual about it, just a sense like...it reminded me of when France won the World Cup. You just notice it.

~+~+~+<-(^)->+~+~+~

Maybe that's because I've been quite disapointed by politics, but I found the speech rather boring. Nothing but catch-sentences ("We can !", already tired by this one) and the usual lies served by any elected guy. I can't understand why people were looking at him as he was some kind of god.

But he at least had a good point. America shown us a great lesson of 'democracy' by electing an african-american.
European snobish and arrogant intellectual elites might think twice before criticizing the US for all and nothing now.I couldn't agree more.

~+~+~+<-(^)->+~+~+~

Now if only I was that guy that staked his reputation in 2004 on the then unthinkable prediction that - before the end of the decade! - America would be the hippest thing on the planet.

Wait...I am him. :beam:

Spino

11-05-2008, 19:59

Wow, bitter, party of one?

One good election deserves another. As I recall liberals were incredibly bitter about their losses in 2000 and especially in 2004 when Dubya managed to defy the odds and beat Kerry. I was working at CBS on election night during the Bush/Gore race and as the results streamed in the sheer panic that gripped my co-workers was borderline psychotic. Nervous body language, agitated expressions, lashing out. I remember one young, decidedly gay attorney talking on the phone in the office near my desk... "Zomg, look at all those red states!!! How can this be happening?!? I can't believe this!!!"

Spino

11-05-2008, 20:06

good Conservative/Libritarian summary of the election, by Neal Boortz:
here (http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html)

Great piece. He gets a little looney with his far flung projections but I loved this part...

Several times in the last few day's I've mentioned the concept of "The Tipping Point." I'm using that term in the context of voting and taxpaying. Right now we are at the point where about 43% of American income earners pay absolutely NO income tax. I've been saying for years that if the Democrats ever gain absolute control in Washington we're going to see that percentage climb ... climb to over 50%. That's the tipping point. Imagine a political campaign where the majority of voters do not pay income taxes. Imagine a campaign where the majority of voters actually get a check from the government instead of writing a check to the government. Can you hear the Democrat campaign themes then? "Vote for the Republicans and they're going to make you pay income taxes."

This article makes the pic posted by TuffStuffMcGruff even more poignant. After all, wasn't it Caesar's appeals and promises to the mob that ensured his success?

Dontcha just love Michael Ramirez's work?

https://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6638/toon110508qk6.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

TinCow

11-05-2008, 20:46

A good article by George Wallace's daughter:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/03/wallace.kennedy.obama/index.html

Don Corleone

11-05-2008, 20:59

A good article by George Wallace's daughter:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/03/wallace.kennedy.obama/index.html

I'm not certain I understand the rant by Peggy Wallace Kennedy, or your intention in posting it. That people that disagree with the Democratic Party platform are the bigoted cultural heirs of George Wallace?

And now a new call to arms has sounded as Americans face another assault on freedom. For if the stand in the schoolhouse door was a defining moment for George Wallace, then surely the aftermath of Katrina and the invasion of Iraq will be the same for George W. Bush.

The trampling of individual freedoms and his blatant contempt for the rights of the average American may not have been as obvious as an ax-handle-wielding governor, but Bush's insidiousness and piety have made him much more dangerous.

Hooahguy

11-05-2008, 21:10

Begging your pardon, but no I wasn't really. Unless in America "I'll be glad if" means something completely different from what it seems to mean in the rest of the world. In which case my apologies for the misunderstanding, I was intending to convey the notion that I'm not happy on account of Obama's election just yet, but provided that he shows sufficiently more practical, common, political sense than Bush did, while in office then I'll be glad. Hope it's better this way?
ah, ok. i understand. no hard feelings? :beam:

TinCow

11-05-2008, 21:26

I'm not certain I understand the rant by Peggy Wallace Kennedy, or your intention in posting it. That people that disagree with the Democratic Party platform are the bigoted cultural heirs of George Wallace?

I posted it because I thought it was interesting and well-written. I thought that under the current circumstances the opinion of the daughter of the last person to run a major Presidential campaign on a platform of segregation would be interesting to a few posters. I am not quite sure why you are offended by it it being posted.

Tellos Athenaios

11-05-2008, 21:58

ah, ok. i understand. no hard feelings? :beam:

Sure.

Crazed Rabbit

11-05-2008, 22:27

At least Darcy Burner, darling of the netroots and koskids, is losing! (very narrowly, and maybe because of her moronic claim that she got a degree in economics from Harvard, when she didn't, and had to deal with the fallout from that in the closing week).

CR

Hooahguy

11-05-2008, 22:31

Sure.
he. i still remember last time we engaged in politics....
*shudders and thinks about when the EB tavern was temporarily closed b/c of political flame wars*

CountArach

11-05-2008, 22:38

Kralizec

11-05-2008, 22:40

I've been sceptical of Obama ever since he started being competitive, and I still am (albeit slightly less). The first few months after his inauguration should be interesting and I'll follow it closely.

Even though I didn't like the tone and some of the themes of his campaign, I feel sorry for McCain. On the other hand I seriously hope that Palin will go back to Alaska and won't come back.

Marshal Murat

11-05-2008, 22:41

As the election has ended, I think the preponderance of anti-Obama rhetoric went up significantly, probably in a response to the (in my mind) disgustingly unsportsmanlike response by the victors. While I don't have a problem with saying "Obama won", or anything as such; there are some examples that I witnessed today that were...disturbingly confrontational.

This isn't my first election folks, but I've never been on the losing side before, so I guess this is how it feels, but even when Kerry or Gore lost it wasn't this bad. There has been alot of racist confrontations today between blacks and whites in my town, and I don't want it to continue.
The fear-mongering that has occurred (black students telling white ones that the whites are "gonna be slaves") is disturbing to hear, and it makes all the whites very confrontational. While I might not comprehend the "historicity" of this event, it doesn't help when all the Obama supporters are shouting from the rooftops that they won, as if it was ever in doubt, and rubbing everyone's face in it?
I was surprised there wasn't more violence between the Obama supporters and McCain supporters. It's not because the McCain supporters were picking on Obama supporters as Communists, Socialists, or anything like that. I was quite willing to forget there was ever an election until the Obama supporters began their tirade. What happened to viewing content of character over skin color, and getting on with our lives? Tomorrow it'll be better though.

It's also interesting that everyone is calling for unity behind the President, when Bush didn't get unity in 2000 until a major U.S. disaster?

Local elections were fine, except the race between two candidates (A black republican and female democrat) was so close they've had to call in manual counts.

We also banned gay marriage!

Don Corleone

11-05-2008, 22:41

I posted it because I thought it was interesting and well-written. I thought that under the current circumstances the opinion of the daughter of the last person to run a major Presidential campaign on a platform of segregation would be interesting to a few posters. I am not quite sure why you are offended by it it being posted.

I guess I'd like to hear from you why you think the Republican party under George W. Bush has been segregationist? The author is making a direct comparison between her father (before he sang Kumbaya and reformed himself) and Geroge W. Bush in 2008 in the particular, and by extension the GOP in 2008 at large. You appear to be applauding her comparison. I'd like to hear some justification for that.

CountArach

11-05-2008, 22:44

It's also interesting that everyone is calling for unity behind the President, when Bush didn't get unity in 2000 until a major U.S. disaster?
The situation now is different to what it was in 2000. There is a financial disaster and two wars. Bush did not face those same obstacles.

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 22:57

It's also interesting that everyone is calling for unity behind the President, when Bush didn't get unity in 2000 until a major U.S. disaster?

What CA said, and, 2000 was a very hotly contested election which was ultimately decided by the Supreme Court, not the voters. And yet Al Gore called for people to support the decision. The circumstances were very different, there is no real question about legitimacy about last night's end result.

Strike For The South

11-05-2008, 22:58

I was 10 in 2000.

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 23:00

I was 10 in 2000.

*Pats Strike and gives him a Power Ranger doll* Hehe

Strike For The South

11-05-2008, 23:03

*Pats Strike and gives him a Power Ranger doll* Hehe

I liked football

Koga No Goshi

11-05-2008, 23:09

I liked football

Bratty little hyper kid, breaking the windows.

Anyhow, the point is, 2000 had a lot of bitterness because it was not decided in a clear voice from the voters. It came down to one state which the Supreme Court halted vote counting on and simply called it for Bush. Of course people felt bitter. Weaker democracies (or perhaps democracies with more alert and attentive citizens) would have seen violence over that.

drone

11-05-2008, 23:31

TinCow

11-06-2008, 00:03

I guess I'd like to hear from you why you think the Republican party under George W. Bush has been segregationist? The author is making a direct comparison between her father (before he sang Kumbaya and reformed himself) and Geroge W. Bush in 2008 in the particular, and by extension the GOP in 2008 at large. You appear to be applauding her comparison. I'd like to hear some justification for that.

Did you even read that article? It makes no claims at all that Bush was segregationist. It compares the impact of Wallace's stance on segregation and the resulting national about-face to Bush's policies in handling issues like Iraq and domestic spying and the subsequent rejection of the Republican party in yesterday's election. There is nothing in there about Bush or the current Republicans being segregationists. It compares the turnabouts, not the issues which caused them.

Seamus Fermanagh

11-06-2008, 00:07

What CA said, and, 2000 was a very hotly contested election which was ultimately decided by the Supreme Court, not the voters. And yet Al Gore called for people to support the decision. The circumstances were very different, there is no real question about legitimacy about last night's end result.

Koga:

You're smarter than that. The Supremes decided that is was inappropriate to recount part of, but not all of, the Florida vote. Given our knowledge of how certain locales break for certain candidates, it is NOT unreasonable to suggest that ANY partial recount is a form of favoritism.

Gore lost in 2k because: 1) 90k Floridians were deranged enough to throw away their votes on the Green Party because GORE wasn't being eco-centric enough when 2k of those 90k in Gore's column would have ended the Bush presidencey before it began, & 2) Gore couldn't win his home state.

Subsequently, several recounts were conducted, sponsored by newspapers who had endorsed Gore, and none of these "recounts" altered the results.

Decry the electoral college system that made the minority popular vote sufficient to elect Bush if you will. Decry what Bush did in office subsequently if you will. The voting results were correct.

Al Gore and Nixon both did the correct thing after narrow defeats.

Seamus Fermanagh

11-06-2008, 00:09

No super-majority, thank god. All those Republicans complaining about the Gang of 14 should be thanking their lucky stars that reason prevailed there. Will W and Cheney spend the rest of their days dropping claims of executive power like they were live ferrets?

No prob. Bush pardons Cheney for the whole shebang 1998 to present, then resigns 19 Jan 09. Cheney then returns the favor. Both skip the innauguration and hunt quail.

Koga No Goshi

11-06-2008, 00:14

Koga:

You're smarter than that. The Supremes decided that is was inappropriate to recount part of, but not all of, the Florida vote. Given our knowledge of how certain locales break for certain candidates, it is NOT unreasonable to suggest that ANY partial recount is a form of favoritism.

Gore lost in 2k because: 1) 90k Floridians were deranged enough to throw away their votes on the Green Party because GORE wasn't being eco-centric enough when 2k of those 90k in Gore's column would have ended the Bush presidencey before it began, & 2) Gore couldn't win his home state.

Subsequently, several recounts were conducted, sponsored by newspapers who had endorsed Gore, and none of these "recounts" altered the results.

Decry the electoral college system that made the minority popular vote sufficient to elect Bush if you will. Decry what Bush did in office subsequently if you will. The voting results were correct.

Al Gore and Nixon both did the correct thing after narrow defeats.

None of this was relevant to people staying up late at night on Nov 4 2000, Seamus. All that stuff was established record long afterwards. On the night in question everyone was up saying that the count looked like it was going to Gore and that it was later stopped. There was a lot of confusion and frustration and pretending like no one had any reasonable cause to feel bitter after 2000 is revisionism. It is absolutely no comparison whatsoever to last night, and it's ridiculous for anyone to do so and expect credibility.

Decry the electoral college system that made the minority popular vote sufficient to elect Bush if you will. Decry what Bush did in office subsequently if you will. The voting results were correct.

Al Gore and Nixon both did the correct thing after narrow defeats.

None of this really changes what I said, Seamus. I said people were frustrated because the vote came down to one hotly contested state, and the recounting was stopped. If that wouldn't make voters feel aggravated, regardless of what the whole story looks like in retrospect, I don't know what would. Saying "it turns out the counts were correct" after the fact doesn't change how people felt when they were told that the recount was being stopped by order of the court, on procedural considerations the electorate in general neither knew about nor were fully informed about at the time.

Dutch_guy

11-06-2008, 00:20

Both skip the innauguration and hunt quail.

I believe that last time Cheney took up his gun to hunt quail he nearly killed his hunting buddy.

I'd stay home if I were Bush.

:balloon2:

Hooahguy

11-06-2008, 00:21

I believe that last time Cheney took up his gun to hunt quail he nearly killed his hunting buddy.

I'd stay home if I were Bush.

:balloon2:
maybe well get lucky....
:laugh4:

Don Corleone

11-06-2008, 01:43

Did you even read that article? It makes no claims at all that Bush was segregationist. It compares the impact of Wallace's stance on segregation and the resulting national about-face to Bush's policies in handling issues like Iraq and domestic spying and the subsequent rejection of the Republican party in yesterday's election. There is nothing in there about Bush or the current Republicans being segregationists. It compares the turnabouts, not the issues which caused them.

Of course I read the article. Despite being a bigot and an anti-intellectual, I am literate. As for where the comparison to segreationist policies came from, I quoted where she drew a parallel earlier in the thread. Here's where you do the same:

I posted it because I thought it was interesting and well-written. I thought that under the current circumstances the opinion of the daughter of the last person to run a major Presidential campaign on a platform of segregation would be interesting to a few posters.

This can be taken one of two ways. 1) Wallace was the last segregationist as in the final one but you somehow see an association to the current administration or 2) was the last as in the most recent prior to the current. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant the first, but I still don't understand how the daughter of a segregationist comparing her father's campaign of hatred and terror against blacks comparing her father, who evolved past his sins to Bush who hasnt' (according to her) is relevant to a discussion on last night's results. I still don't know exactly what you're trying to say with the original post and how you found it enlightening that an Alabama Democrat party hack thinks Bush was worse than her race-baiting segregationist father. She at least can claim to be repairing her father's legacy. I am very curious about your motivations, about what exactly you were trying to say.

Marshal Murat

11-06-2008, 02:32

The Election *Bad Language* (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/89154)

The new American states.

Crazed Rabbit

11-06-2008, 05:29

Coleman won - thank goodness, how could people vote for Franken?

And there's been a lot more votes counted, and Darcy Burner is losing by a slightly larger margin (http://vote.wa.gov/Elections/WEI/Results.aspx?ElectionID=26&JurisdictionTypeID=3&JurisdictionID=154&ViewMode=Results) (almost 2000 votes, up from 600 votes).

And a great piece by the Onion on what obsessive supporters do after he's won. (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive)

CR

Lemur

11-06-2008, 05:38

And a great piece by the Onion on what obsessive supporters do after he's won. (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive)
Man, The Onion is on fire lately. Great stuff!

CountArach

11-06-2008, 06:20

Merkeley won in Oregon.

Most of the votes left to count in WA-08 (Burner) are from Democratic Counties.

Crazed Rabbit

11-06-2008, 06:43

Martok

11-06-2008, 08:09

Coleman won - thank goodness, how could people vote for Franken?
I could ask the same thing about those who voted for Coleman.

In any case, be careful about counting your eggs before they're hatched. We've first gotta do a recount before anything's official, as Coleman's supposed margin of victory was along the lines of 475 votes (out of roughly 2.9 million cast). It's probably going to be a few weeks before we know the results for certain.

Martok

11-06-2008, 08:10

Man, The Onion is on fire lately. Great stuff!

Black Man Given Nation's Worst Job (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/black_man_given_nations) :laugh4:

ICantSpellDawg

11-06-2008, 08:41

Does anybody have the tally of pro-life deomocrats elected this year to the House and Senate?

Bobby Bright - House
Kathy DahlKemper - House
Steve Driehaus - House

Any others? What does that put the total House and Senate Democratic pro-lifers at?

Usually when there is a Republican Pro-life candidate vs a Democratic pro-life candidate I root for the Democrat just to get them in there.

CountArach

11-06-2008, 12:14

Yeah, the Burner race will be close. But that woman represents all the worst bits of dailykos koolaid drinkers, and I really don't want her in Congress.

But even King County is just barely going for Burner right now - and the first batch of votes they counted was 57% for Burner, and these later votes will be after the whole degree stupidity she put herself in. If she loses King, she's done for, and it could be that way.

CR
What are the worst parts of DailyKos she represents? As one who only gets my news about that race from the Kos and wherever they link to I get a one-eyed view. What is it that is so bad about her?

Just interested.

Also an update on Tubes' race in Alaska:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/6/32739/8296/558/655425
Tom Begich (Brother of the Democrat and a man highly placed in the campaign team) says the following:

Last precincts in - Mark won them, new numbers are: Begich 103,337 (47%) to Stevens 106,594 (48%) 100% in. Estimate is 60 - 75 thousand yet to count. We are told 15% are from Juneau which I am trying to confirm. We won 64% of the vote in Juneau.

TinCow

11-06-2008, 13:09

I still don't understand how the daughter of a segregationist comparing her father's campaign of hatred and terror against blacks comparing her father, who evolved past his sins to Bush who hasnt' (according to her) is relevant to a discussion on last night's results. I still don't know exactly what you're trying to say with the original post and how you found it enlightening that an Alabama Democrat party hack thinks Bush was worse than her race-baiting segregationist father. She at least can claim to be repairing her father's legacy. I am very curious about your motivations, about what exactly you were trying to say.

We just elected the first black President of the United States. I personally thought that her views on her own father were interesting under the circumstances because of the monumental important of the event in the history of civil rights. I was primarily concerned with the comments she made about her own father, which I found particularly interesting because I had no idea that his views had changed in later life. I found her comments on Bush to be entirely peripheral to what was really interesting about it. It was thus topical and interesting to me and thus I think I was more than justified in calling it a "good" article, which is all I did.

You are entirely incorrect that I was even trying to say anything at all. I was simply posting something that I found interesting. Surely that is understandable, is it not?

Lemur

11-06-2008, 14:16

For once I'm not gonna provide a link, 'cause that would just be wrong. BUt here you go, evidence that the Westboro Baptist Church hasn't gone away:

WBC to picket the funeral of Madelyn Payne Dunham, - pursuant to the picketing laws of Hawaii or Kansas or, etc., wherever burial occurs, - in religious protest and warning to the living; to wit:

"Prepare to meet thy God." Amos 4:11.

Yes. Dying time is truth time, and reflection time, and time for meditating on the weighty issues of life: getting right with God, life, death, Heaven, Hell, sin, righteousness, judgment to come, etc. Obama says his grandmother Dunham raised him, and, her "influence on his manner and the way he viewed the world was substantial." If so, then she has much to answer for as she stands before the Lord. Obama says he will use the White House as a Bully Pulpit to advance the cause of murdering more babies and same-sex marriage. "God hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by Christ." Acts 17:31.

Don Corleone

11-06-2008, 14:28

We just elected the first black President of the United States. I personally thought that her views on her own father were interesting under the circumstances because of the monumental important of the event in the history of civil rights. I was primarily concerned with the comments she made about her own father, which I found particularly interesting because I had no idea that his views had changed in later life. I found her comments on Bush to be entirely peripheral to what was really interesting about it. It was thus topical and interesting to me and thus I think I was more than justified in calling it a "good" article, which is all I did.

You are entirely incorrect that I was even trying to say anything at all. I was simply posting something that I found interesting. Surely that is understandable, is it not?

I see. So by posting a story in which George McGovern's daughter compares her father's race-baiting, abusive, bullying illegal reign as governor to George Bush's administration and finds her father superior and Bush wanting, you were really trying to lead us all in a chorus of Kumbaya. My mistake, how foolish of me, it's patently obvious now that you explain it to me.

drone

11-06-2008, 16:58

Anyone know how Illinois fills Obama's Senate seat?

GeneralHankerchief

11-06-2008, 17:10

Blagojevich (or however you spell it) appoints someone to fill the remainder of the seat. I don't think there's a special election involved. So far the rumors are that it'll be Jesse Jackson, Jr., but I don't think that'll happen because it means that there will just be another House seat to fill then.

He's also going to have to fill Rahm's seat too.

These are going to be two pretty important picks for him, being embattled and up for re-election in 2010.

Spino

11-06-2008, 19:47

So much for the bilious hype regarding this so-called revolutionary and unprecedented election. The only variable that stands out about this election was the fact that you had a 1/2 black candidate n the race which broke the standard Northern European vs. Northern European formula. For all the hoopla surrounding voter registration and the early voting bruhaha the actual difference between this election and the previous one? 1% increase in voter turnout...

http://domino.american.edu/AU/media/mediarel.nsf/b0af33083b8462d085256a1d00572a4b/48b5a9566919ef58852574f9005fb459?OpenDocument

Much-hyped Turnout Record Fails to Materialize: Convenience Voting Fails to Boost Balloting

Contact: Curtis Gans, 202-885-6295, 703-304-1283, 540-822-5292, gans@american.edu, csnag@eols.com
Jon Hussey, AU Media Relations, 202-885-5935 or hussey@american.edu

WASHINGTON, D.C. (November 6, 2008)—Despite lofty predictions by some academics,
pundits, and practitioners that voter turnout would reach levels not seen since the turn of the last century, the percentage of eligible citizens casting ballots in the 2008 presidential election stayed at virtually the same relatively high level as it reached in the polarized election of 2004.

According to a report and turnout projection released today by American University’s Center for the Study of the American Electorate (CSAE) and based, in part, on nearly final but unofficial vote tabulations as compiled by the Associated Press as of 7 p.m. Wednesday, November 5, the percentage of Americans who cast ballots for president in this year’s presidential election will reach between 126.5 million and 128.5 million when all votes have been counted by early next month.

If this prediction proves accurate, turnout would be at either exactly the same level as in 2004 or, at most, one percentage point higher (or between 60.7 percent and 61.7 percent). If the rate of voting exceeds 61.0 percent of eligibles, turnout will have been the highest since 1964. This projection is based on the 121.5 million tabulated votes compiled by the Associated Press plus some estimate—partially based on experience with post-election vote counting in previous elections and partially based on factors specific to this election, most notably the spread of balloting prior to Election Day—on how many ballots are still to be counted.

A downturn in the number and percentage of Republican voters going to the polls seemed to be the primary explanation for the lower than predicted turnout. The percentage of eligible citizens voting Republican declined to 28.7 percent down 1.3 percentage points from 2004. Democratic turnout increased by 2.6 percentage points from 28.7 percent of eligibles to 31.3 percent. It was the seventh straight increase in the Democratic share of the eligible vote since the party’s share dropped to 22.7 percent of eligibles in 1980.

Of the 47 states and the District of Columbia included in this report, turnout was up in only 22 states and D.C. (Because of the extensive uncounted no excuse absentee balloting in Alaska and California and all-mail voting in Oregon and most of the state of Washington, those states are not included in this report.)

“Many people were fooled (including this student of politics although less so than many others) by this year’s increase in registration (more than 10 million added to the rolls), citizens’ willingness to stand for hours even in inclement weather to vote early, the likely rise in youth and African American voting, and the extensive grassroots organizing network of the Obama campaign into believing that turnout would be substantially higher than in 2004,” said Curtis Gans, CSAE’s director. “But we failed to realize that the registration increase was driven by Democratic and independent registration and that the long lines at the polls were mostly populated by Democrats.”

Gans attributed the GOP downturn to three factors: 1) John McCain’s efforts to unite the differing factions in the Republican Party by the nomination of Governor Sarah Palin as vice-presidential nominee was a singular failure. By election time many culturally conservative Republicans still did not see him as one of their own and stayed home, while moderate Republicans saw the nomination of Palin reckless and worried about McCain’s steadiness. 2) As events moved towards Election Day, there was a growing perception of a Democratic landslide, discouraging GOP voters. 3) The 2008 election was a mirror image of the 2004 election. In the 2004 election, the enthusiasm level was on the Republican side. By Election Day, Democratic voters were not motivated by their candidate but rather by opposition to President Bush, while Republican voters had a much greater liking for their standard bearer. In 2008 and according to polls from several sources, by at least 20 percentage points, Obama enjoyed stronger allegiance than McCain. Even the best get-out-the-vote activities tend to be as successful as the affirmative emotional context in which they are working. In 2004, that context favored the GOP. In 2008, it favored the Democrats.

“In the end, this election was driven by deep economic concerns and the prevailing emotional climate,” Gans said. “While there probably has not been, since 1932, the confluence of factors that underlay this election—90 percent of the American people seeing the nation on the wrong track, 75 percent disapproving of the president’s performance, more than 80 percent perceiving a recession and feeling that things will get worse, and the reality of growing economic distress—on one level this election was typical. When economic conditions go bad, the party in the White House gets blamed and they lose.”

This is a summary report with basic highlights, commentary, summary charts, and notes. The complete report including statistical charts for overall and partisan turnout for all races covered in this report is available in a downloadable copy at http://www.american.edu/media/electionexperts.

Convenience Voting Didn’t Help

During the past several years, and in the belief that turnout would be enhanced, many states have moved to various forms of what has been called convenience voting. The most extreme form is the all-mail balloting in Oregon, and more recently, in most of the state of Washington. Other forms include no-excuse absentee voting (whereby citizens can get absentee ballots without stating a reason and cast them for a period in advance of the election), early voting (whereby at certain polling places established by election officials in convenient locations, citizens can, in person, cast ballots for a specified period before an election) and Election Day registration (where a citizen can both register and vote on Election Day).

The evidence from the 2008 election is that if the mission of these electoral devices is turnout enhancement, the mission has been a failure.

Of the 14 states which had the largest turnout increases in 2008, only six had implemented one form or another of convenience voting. Of the 13 states which had the largest turnout decreases, all but one had one form or another of convenience voting. (See chart 3.)

“It has always been abundantly clear that, after four decades of making it easier to vote and having turnout decline (among most groups) except for elections driven by fear and anger,” Gans said, “the central issue governing turnout is not procedure but motivation. These new procedures, except for Election Day registration for some states, don’t help turnout and pose some discrete dangers for American democracy.”

Some Statistical Highlights:

Of the states included in this report, Democratic turnout increased in all but seven states, led by Indiana (up 8.32 percentage points), North Carolina (8.3), Hawaii (6.4), Delaware (6.1), Georgia (6.1), North Dakota (6.0), Nevada (5.9), Montana (5.4), New Mexico (.1), and Virginia (5.0)—all except Hawaii, new areas of potential Democratic strength. Republican turnout increased in only eight of 47 states and the District of Columbia included in this report.

The greatest increase in overall turnout was in North Carolina, where turnout increased by 9.4 percentage points to a record high. Georgia also had a record high turnout, increasing by 6.7 percentage points, as did South Carolina with a 6.0 percentage point increase. Others setting new records included Alabama, Virginia, Mississippi, and the District of Columbia.

As usual the highest turnout was recorded in Minnesota (75.9 percent of eligible), followed by Wisconsin (70.9), Iowa (68.9) Missoouri (67.4), Michigan (66.7), South Dakota (66.7), and North Carolina (66.3).

Commentary (Two Shorts for Longer Future Analysis):

1. The opportunity for long-term realignment: The Democratic victory was not only large in margin and sweeping in scope, it also was a continuation of their gains in share of the eligible vote, which began after the 1980 election and many of their largest gains in 2008 came in states where the Democrats had not previously had a foothold—in the post-Voting Rights Act south and in the mountain west and southwest. While this election did not in itself realign American politics after 28-years of Republican dominance, it presented the opportunity for such a realignment to take place. But that realignment can only occur if President-elect Obama is a successful president. If he restores political trust, economic stability, international respect, and broad citizen approval, the Democrats could be in power everywhere for a very long time. But that is a tall order which may not be, given the severity of current conditions, an accomplishable task. However, the GOP would be wise not to play politics in the manner they utilized during the Clinton Administration—a manner that was largely obstructionist and nay-saying. If they pursue that strategy in the face of Obama’s call to cooperation in dealing with crisis, the GOP could be in the political wilderness for a very, very, long time.

2. Convenience Voting: This election showed what many previous elections have shown—that the types of innovations adopted in the past several years—particularly early voting, no-excuse absentee voting and mail voting—do not enhance and may hurt turnout. They pose other dangers—the most significant is the danger that something may occur on the last few days of the electoral season, such as, the present context, the capture of Osama Bin Laden, a domestic terrorist act, or an elderly candidate having a heart attack—after 35 million citizens have cast an irrevocable vote. With the exception of those who physically can’t get to the polls or those who for business reasons can’t be at the polls on a given election day, the nation would be safer if everyone voted on the same day. Mail voting and no-excuse absentee voting also offer the greatest opportunity for voting fraud and intimidation of any aspect of the electoral system. This is because these forms of voting provide for the elimination by any individual of their right to a secret ballot and thus, their vote could be (and has been on a few occasions) bought, or someone delivering an open ballot filled out the “wrong” way could discard it, or one could be pressured at ballot signing parties among one’s peers, pressure easy to resist behind a voting curtain, not so easy to resist at the home of a friend. It is why the United States adopted the Australian (secret) ballot in the first place around the turn of the last century.

But in a larger sense, convenience voting is addressing a real problem with the wrong solutions. The participation problem is, at heart, not procedural but motivational. In a variety of ways, events, politics, leadership, education, communications, and values have damped the religion of civic engagement and responsibility. We will not get that back by treating would-be voters as spoiled children. We need to demand more of our citizenry rather than less. The Democrats liked convenience voting this time because it benefitted them. The Republicans liked it in 2004 because it benefitted them. But democracy was not benefitted. These devices are extremely popular, but popularity is not the same as wisdom and in this case, it is antithetical. It’s time to consider rolling them back.

“Many people were fooled (including this student of politics although less so than many others) by this year’s increase in registration (more than 10 million added to the rolls), citizens’ willingness to stand for hours even in inclement weather to vote early, the likely rise in youth and African American voting, and the extensive grassroots organizing network of the Obama campaign into believing that turnout would be substantially higher than in 2004,” said Curtis Gans, CSAE’s director. “But we failed to realize that the registration increase was driven by Democratic and independent registration and that the long lines at the polls were mostly populated by Democrats.”

Gans attributed the GOP downturn to three factors: 1) John McCain’s efforts to unite the differing factions in the Republican Party by the nomination of Governor Sarah Palin as vice-presidential nominee was a singular failure. By election time many culturally conservative Republicans still did not see him as one of their own and stayed home, while moderate Republicans saw the nomination of Palin reckless and worried about McCain’s steadiness. 2) As events moved towards Election Day, there was a growing perception of a Democratic landslide, discouraging GOP voters. 3) The 2008 election was a mirror image of the 2004 election. In the 2004 election, the enthusiasm level was on the Republican side. By Election Day, Democratic voters were not motivated by their candidate but rather by opposition to President Bush, while Republican voters had a much greater liking for their standard bearer. In 2008 and according to polls from several sources, by at least 20 percentage points, Obama enjoyed stronger allegiance than McCain. Even the best get-out-the-vote activities tend to be as successful as the affirmative emotional context in which they are working. In 2004, that context favored the GOP. In 2008, it favored the Democrats.

“In the end, this election was driven by deep economic concerns and the prevailing emotional climate,” Gans said. “While there probably has not been, since 1932, the confluence of factors that underlay this election—90 percent of the American people seeing the nation on the wrong track, 75 percent disapproving of the president’s performance, more than 80 percent perceiving a recession and feeling that things will get worse, and the reality of growing economic distress—on one level this election was typical. When economic conditions go bad, the party in the White House gets blamed and they lose.”

So this revolutionary new direction the country is taking? This liberal mandate handed up from the divinely inspired sheeple masses? It's so much BS. McCain completely failed to energize the Republican base. Had McCain been more appealing to conservatives his chances of winning would have improved dramatically (although given the economic conditions a victory still might have been out of reach). Selecting Palin as his VP to appeal to conservatives, blue collar voters & disgruntled Hillary supporters didn't help his cause. It is now painfully apparent that Romney should have been the Republican's main man this year... or in the very least McCain's running mate. On the other hand Romney can now enter the 2012 election with a clean slate, having maintained his distance from a losing candidate who was so closely associated with GW Bush on the campaign trail.

So the likelihood that the mob will run back into the arms of a GOP candidate in 2012 is quite good.

Based on the stats we're throwing about here at CNN the one factor that stood out about this election is that of the people who turned out to vote it was minorities that clinched it for Obama. As with most elections since the end of the Vietnam war more white people voted for the Republican than the Democrat. In fairness Obama did receive the highest percentage of white voters since Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton (43-46%). It was the Black & Latino vote that killed McCain. Given that GW Bush managed to get a more sizeable percentage of Latin voters in 2004 (44%) means that this voting bloc is still not out of reach. In 2012 the Republicans will need to select a much more charismatic candidate in order to sway those lost Latino votes back into their camp.

Divinus Arma

11-06-2008, 20:05

Congrats to America on your new president..

and a deep thank you for keeping that woman out of the oval office....you can actually hear the world give a sigh of relief.

And America breathes a collective sigh in solidarity. Hillary is the anti-christ.

Spino

11-06-2008, 20:29

And America breathes a collective sigh in solidarity. Hillary is the anti-christ.

No way. I'll take Hillary over Obama. I hate the woman but she's a known variable who is not nearly as far to the left as Obama. Furthermore Hillary would be much easier to beat in 2012. So that's four years of doom and gloom versus a possible eight. You see even if Obama's administration and the Democrat controlled Congress screw the pooch six ways to Sunday the media will still love him and treat him with kid gloves. It is entirely reasonable to believe that no matter what terrible turn(s) of events occur during his administration come 2011 Obama will gear up that hype machine and enter into the 2012 election as teflon coated as he was in 2008. Obama proved he is one of the greatest purveyors of snake oil our country has ever seen, even more effective than the previous record holder... Bill Clinton.

So yeah, I'll take Billary over the Obamination any day.

seireikhaan

11-06-2008, 20:46

Spino- Why so hateful? Obama will not have a chance of being successful in your eyes, simply because you do not allow him. The election is over. Breathe. The slate is clean. Lets see what happens.

Hooahguy

11-06-2008, 21:32

Spino- Why so hateful? Obama will not have a chance of being successful in your eyes, simply because you do not allow him. The election is over. Breathe. The slate is clean. Lets see what happens.
seriously, spino. if you keep hating him nothing will come out of it. i threw away my hate and while i may not like his policies, he is still my president and deserves the respect. why people couldnt show some respect to GWB, even after all him horrible policies and such is beyond me.

yesdachi

11-06-2008, 21:41

I was on a plane when they announced the winner of the election and the Australian couple next to me said “it sounds like you have a new president” I replied with a little less than excited “ I guess so” and the ladies response was “change is as good as a holiday… and you get this one for 4 years” :laugh4:

Koga No Goshi

11-06-2008, 22:33

seriously, spino. if you keep hating him nothing will come out of it. i threw away my hate and while i may not like his policies, he is still my president and deserves the respect. why people couldnt show some respect to GWB, even after all him horrible policies and such is beyond me.

Deciding Obama cannot possibly do a single thing right before he has even taken the oath =/= people fed up with 8 years of incredibly poor administration under Bush.

No one can say people are judging Bush with no record to base it off. Right now, the right is responding to Obama as if they've already suffered under 8 years of super liberal madness and the verdict is in.

Crazed Rabbit

11-06-2008, 22:34

What are the worst parts of DailyKos she represents? As one who only gets my news about that race from the Kos and wherever they link to I get a one-eyed view. What is it that is so bad about her?

Just interested.

She's the embodiment of partisanship - what doesn't matter is how good an idea is, it matters if the democratic party supports it. She's an ideologue who places ideologies above results. She lies and exaggerates easily checked facts. She doesn't think, (http://soundpolitics.com/archives/011519.html) she parrots the dailykos agenda, a divisive, us-vs-everybody who doesn't fully agree with us attitude.

And more votes have been counted, and she's not getting any closer.

For once I'm not gonna provide a link, 'cause that would just be wrong. BUt here you go, evidence that the Westboro Baptist Church hasn't gone away:

Good grief, I have the most un-Christian thoughts whenever I read about them.

CR

Seamus Fermanagh

11-06-2008, 22:44

I repeat, from an earlier post,

A candidate does not win that many states, nor upset so many "safe" states for the other party, simply by being the "he's not from them" candidate. A clear majority of our electorate actively CHOSE Senator Obama as our next President. This was not a 2000 -- where Bush won in Florida because too many Dems opted out by voting Green; this was not 1976, where any nominee who was from the party that wasn't the party of Nixon had a clear route to victory. Obama won, W-O-N.

Over the next year, we will begin to learn his agenda and the direction he will take us. To actively oppose for the sole purpose of opposing is the kind of partisan obstructionism the GOP so decried from 2000 through 2006. Let us oppose his policies where they can be demonstrated to do harm to the USA and our interests, but opposing soley to say "we don't like what you are" is rather pointless.

Banquo's Ghost

11-06-2008, 22:47

One suspects that if the GOP reflected the views of men like Seamus more consistently, they would be in power for a thousand years. :bow:

Crazed Rabbit

11-06-2008, 22:50

One suspects that if the GOP reflected the views of men like Seamus more consistently, they would be in power for a thousand years. :bow:

Yes. Alas, we have morons like Don Young in party leadership.

CR

Seamus Fermanagh

11-06-2008, 22:53

Yes. Alas, we have morons like Don Young in party leadership.

CR

:wall:

I think I may have to actually become a card-carrying GOPer and start remaking the party from my county on up. The current crew has made a hash of it, I certainly can't :daisy: it up any worse.

Don Corleone

11-06-2008, 23:40

:wall:

I think I may have to actually become a card-carrying GOPer and start remaking the party from my county on up. The current crew has made a hash of it, I certainly can't :daisy: it up any worse.

Funny, I'm changing my official party identification to the big "I", as I've abandoned ship on the Republicans. I've never been a very good party loyalist, and I feel really bad that the party has been reduced to what it currently is. I've heard screeds and read essays in which John McCain, an honest to goodness American hero is being pilloried by his party for blowing the election on purpose, for not being "Republican" enough, and for betraying the party's ideals.

Maybe there is a need for a party for social conservatives and religious zealots. Maybe there's a need for a party dedicated to supporting the interests of big business and seeing that they receive regular checks from the federal government. The first is theocratic, the second is mercantilist, and I am neither. If that's what the so-called party faithful declare their party to be about, then I clearly don't belong there. And I am disgusted with the treatment McCain and Palin are receiving from the "faithful". And I'm really, really ashamed of the "impeach Obama now" movement. I want no parts of any organization that has anything to do with any of this. American patriots, regardless of their personal political philosophies, rally behind their leader in times of trouble and support him as best as they can, even if they disagree. They don't cry and moan and bitch that it's not their personal view. Not everyone that fought in WWI thought we should have, but they said their piece, then they went and died. I want to be that kind of American.

CountArach

11-07-2008, 00:16

She's the embodiment of partisanship - what doesn't matter is how good an idea is, it matters if the democratic party supports it. She's an ideologue who places ideologies above results. She lies and exaggerates easily checked facts. She doesn't think, (http://soundpolitics.com/archives/011519.html) she parrots the dailykos agenda, a divisive, us-vs-everybody who doesn't fully agree with us attitude.
I don't see any specifics there. Besides, she didn't support the FISA legislation and the party leadership in both houses did. That's just one I can think of off the top of my head.

ICantSpellDawg

11-07-2008, 01:27

:wall:

I think I may have to actually become a card-carrying GOPer and start remaking the party from my county on up. The current crew has made a hash of it, I certainly can't :daisy: it up any worse.

Me too. I plan on changing my affiliation to Republican. There is a big opportunity to re-shape the party when the power beasts are abandoning the party. More chances to be the captain when the entire crew is abandoning ship.

Crazed Rabbit

11-07-2008, 02:11

I don't see any specifics there. Besides, she didn't support the FISA legislation and the party leadership in both houses did. That's just one I can think of off the top of my head.
Corrected:

She's the embodiment of partisanship - what doesn't matter is how good an idea is, it matters if the democratic party dailykos crowd supports it.

A couple specifics: her lie about her degree, her exaggeration about her work at Microsoft, and ho here whole 2006 platform was George Bush is evil!.

CR

CountArach

11-07-2008, 02:35

A politician embellishing the truth :jawdrop:

Seamus Fermanagh

11-07-2008, 03:36

Me too. I plan on changing my affiliation to Republican. There is a big opportunity to re-shape the party when the power beasts are abandoning the party. More chances to be the captain when the entire crew is abandoning ship.

I'm not interested in being the leader of a confederacy of dunces. I'm talking aobut grass roots work to rebuild and re-direct. Real conservatism and a party that stands for something.

Smaller Government. Government at the most local possible level. Fiscal responsibility. A less "free form" approach to the Constitution.

That's it.

My church is for my faith, my government need not, and quite probably should not, be. Legislating morality is nearly as effective as converting by the sword. As in, it ain't.

I will continue to oppose abortion "rights" as I believe that the unborn is a soul and human to be with rights of its own. Most of the other stuff is not really any of my business.

Marshal Murat

11-07-2008, 04:08

Evidently the Unicorns and bunnies are waiting for Spring...

Stock Tumble, Again (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081106/wall_street.html)

Wall Street plunged for a second day, triggered by computer gear maker Cisco Systems warning of slumping demand and retailers reporting weak sales for October. Concerns about widespread economic weakness sent the major stock indexes down more than 4 percent Thursday, including the Dow Jones industrial average, which tumbled more than 440 points.

WORLD WAR 3 YAAAR! (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1083501/Day-One-Obama-faces-Cold-War-threat-warning-Israel.html)

Barack Obama was confronting a looming international crisis just hours after his White House election triumph.

The U.S. President-elect faced a triple threat with Russia, Israel and Afghanistan all threatening to test his mettle.

'We live in a neighbourhood in which dialogue - in a situation where you have brought sanctions and you then shift to dialogue - is liable to be interpreted as weakness,' said Israeli foreign minister Tzipi Livni.

Asked if she supported any U.S. talks with Iran, she quickly said: 'The answer is no.'
Suprised?

In Afghanistan, President Hamid Karzai demanded that Mr Obama 'put an end to civilian casualties' by changing U.S. military tactics to avoid airstrikes in the war on the Taliban.
(This one I actually wish Obama would change)

It seems that whole thing about McCain dying in office vs. Obama facing WW3 in the first 100 days might not be too far off. But I guess I'm just a Cold War dinosaur who enjoys fear-mongering and making babies cry.

KukriKhan

11-07-2008, 05:02

turnout would be at either exactly the same level as in 2004 or, at most, one percentage point higher (or between 60.7 percent and 61.7 percent).

This makes Kukri sad.

Again.

Seamus for POTUS in '12!

Ya'll look out in 32 years when Jacob the grandson runs and wins the 52nd POTUS appointment. He'll make you want to vote. I promise.

CountArach

11-07-2008, 05:43

First look at the 2012 election polling:
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/marist_matchups_for_the_2012_p.php

JAG

11-07-2008, 05:46

First look at the 2012 election polling:
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/marist_matchups_for_the_2012_p.php

hahah, before I read it I was gonna call you a MONSTER, CA! ahah :balloon2:

Crazed Rabbit

11-07-2008, 08:44

A politician embellishing the truth

It's not the lying so much as being an idiot when you do it, lying on easily verified facts, like what degrees you have, or heavily embellishing your job (ie. saying middle management is an 'executive' position).

In a way making such thickheaded mistakes is worse than the actual lying.

Oh, and Burner is losing in King County (stronghold and fortress of democrats here in Washington)!
(http://vote.wa.gov/Elections/WEI/ResultsByCounty.aspx?ElectionID=26&RaceID=12&CountyCode=%20&JurisdictionTypeID=3&RaceTypeCode=O&ViewMode=Results)
Losing! In King County! And behind by 5000 votes in Pierce County!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Burner has lost! She's done for! Even with Obama she's lost! There's still hope for Washington!

That made my day.

Crazed Rabbit

CountArach

11-07-2008, 09:33

On the other hand Franken has closed to 236 votes (http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/20081104/ElecRslts.asp?M=S&R=all&P=A&Races=%27%27)

Ronin

11-07-2008, 10:06

Xiahou

11-07-2008, 10:36

The Daily show - Now you tell us this about Palin?? (http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=209420)

when the race is over...the really juicy things come out :laugh4:

man...we didn´t dodge a bullet there....more like a cannon ball.You know, I was seriously weighing some of the things that bitter McCain aids had been accusing her of. But really, she didn't know Africa was a continent or that Canada and Mexico are part of the North America? They overplayed it a little bit I'm afraid. What's next? She couldn't figure out how to tie her shoes?

Let's be serious, you couldn't get elected dog catcher, let alone mayor or governor with out at least some level of intelligence. The accusations flying around now would have you think she's legally retarded. Like I said, the audaciousness of these later claims makes me doubt the credibility of all of them.

*Hmm, on second thought, I wouldn't be surprised if she couldn't name all the countries in North America- I can't either. But apparently, there's 23 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_america#Countries_and_territories) of them.

CountArach

11-07-2008, 10:50

You know, I was seriously weighing some of the things that bitter McCain aids had been accusing her of. But really, she didn't know Africa was a continent or that Canada and Mexico are part of the North America? They overplayed it a little bit I'm afraid. What's next? She couldn't figure out how to tie her shoes?

Let's be serious, you couldn't get elected dog catcher, let alone mayor or governor with out at least some level of intelligence. The accusations flying around now would have you think she's legally retarded. Like I said, the audaciousness of these later claims makes me doubt the credibility of all of them.

*Hmm, on second thought, I wouldn't be surprised if she couldn't name all the countries in North America- I can't either. But apparently, there's 23 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_america#Countries_and_territories) of them.
NAFTA only covers 3 countries - US, Canada, Mexico.

Xiahou

11-07-2008, 11:07

NAFTA only covers 3 countries - US, Canada, Mexico.
Yup, I know that. :yes:
They accused her of not being able to name all the countries in North America- did you watch the clip? Incidentally, I guess that was a big swing and a miss by Stewart- apparently he's as dumb as Palin. :oops:

Here (https://www.youtube.com/v/l1KvgwTrpQE) is the entire segment from FNC- they mention NAFTA there, but I was responding to the Daily Show clip.

CountArach

11-07-2008, 11:09

Koga No Goshi

11-07-2008, 11:13

Yup, I know that. :yes:
They accused her of not being able to name all the countries in North America- did you watch the clip? Incidentally, I guess that was a big swing and a miss by Stewart. :oops:

Here (https://www.youtube.com/v/l1KvgwTrpQE) is the entire segment from FNC- they mention NAFTA there, but I was responding to the Daily Show clip.

We don't even need to get into the anonymous-sourced stories circulating around the net about how poorly informed she showed herself behind the scenes to McCain preppers and vetters. If she can't answer multiple questions from naming a Supreme Court case other than Roe v. Wade to what the Bush doctrine is, that a 29 year old with a bachelor's degree (not in history or polysci) who does not serve in any public office can answer, she has no business being vice president of the country.

Maybe surviving a round of "Are you smarter than a Fifth Grader" should be a prerequisite before selection for VP.

Ronin

11-07-2008, 11:50

*Hmm, on second thought, I wouldn't be surprised if she couldn't name all the countries in North America- I can't either. But apparently, there's 23 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_america#Countries_and_territories) of them.

if you give a link you should read it completely.

on "Usage":

"In English, North America is often used to refer to the United States and Canada exclusively.[21] Alternatively, usage may include Mexico[22] (as with North American Free Trade Agreement) and other entities.[23]"

we can settle this and agree that it's kind of a trick question....because there is no real 100% correct answer.

but come on.....is Africa a continent? and the correct powers of the US VP shouldn't be big questions for someone running for the job.

she might be the nº1 reason McCain lost this election....and it's easy to understand why.....she makes Dubya look like he's got it together.

Don Corleone

11-07-2008, 12:36

Mrs. Corleone informed me this morning that she had Jillian's video baby monitor fed through the VCR, actually recording my reaction (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhxpohzZHbc)to the results coming in Tuesday night.

Banquo's Ghost

11-07-2008, 12:52

Don Corleone

11-07-2008, 14:35

In the spirit of "let's all move beyond the divide and try to come together" spirit that President-elect Obama has called for and I have tried to embrace, Senator Harry Reid took Senator Joseph Lieberman out to the woodshed yesterday (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081107/D949OCKO0.html).

Now, before Koga gets frothing at the mouth, yes, the Republicans treated Jim Jeffords very similarly. I do not argue that this is how politics is conducted, and there is always a price to be paid down the road for betraying your party. That being said, in light of the current economic situation, if you were Harry Reid, would YOU have made this your FIRST order of business? Committee chairmanships are going to get redistributed in 2 months anyway. Wouldn't it have been better to quietly let Joe ride the last 2 months out, tell him quietly he was out in the desert, and then publicly claim a bipartisan, mature attitude?

This just strikes me as incredibly petty, an indication that Reid is putting party loyalty ahead of all other issues, and not what I personally am signed on for.

Sasaki Kojiro

11-07-2008, 18:17

ICantSpellDawg

11-07-2008, 18:24

I'm not interested in being the leader of a confederacy of dunces. I'm talking aobut grass roots work to rebuild and re-direct. Real conservatism and a party that stands for something.

Smaller Government. Government at the most local possible level. Fiscal responsibility. A less "free form" approach to the Constitution.

That's it.

My church is for my faith, my government need not, and quite probably should not, be. Legislating morality is nearly as effective as converting by the sword. As in, it ain't.

I will continue to oppose abortion "rights" as I believe that the unborn is a soul and human to be with rights of its own. Most of the other stuff is not really any of my business.

I'm sorry, I forgot that I am one of those moronic Conservatives that will try to make the party worse. I don't think that our opinions are all that different. I'll give Obama the benefit of the doubt on everything EXCEPT the abortion issue. If gay marriage proponents win in a legitimate way through legislation, I will be frustrated, but I'll move on. I will never move on from the abortion issue until there is a tremendous change in opinion and the level of callousness.

Louis VI the Fat

11-07-2008, 18:49

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
British are stupid (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=w_mkwB9ayK4&feature=related)
French (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=fwQt1zsL1f8&feature=related)
Germans (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=ONCrE4IoSsY&feature=iv&annotation_id=event_742978)

CrossLOPER

11-07-2008, 19:04

British are stupid (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=w_mkwB9ayK4&feature=related)
French (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=fwQt1zsL1f8&feature=related)
Germans (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=ONCrE4IoSsY&feature=iv&annotation_id=event_742978)
KILL THE HUMAN FOOD.

Spino

11-07-2008, 19:05

LittleGrizzly

11-07-2008, 20:03

Theres incrediblely stupid people everywhere!!

The only problem is when one of them is a potentially powerful person, and people warm to that based on similar intellectual skills....

I have to say the british one seemed a little unfair, pounds and euros are irish currency, depending which bit you mean, the place in a race question does trick a lot of people, i like to think myself clever but i fell for it first time i heard it... (in fairness i was about 12-14) he seems to pick young and old people... not that i am defending british intelligence... there are plenty as bad as in the video sasaki posted... just he seemed to use trick questions and young people rather than making the effort to find stupidity..

Did anyone else struggle to name a british car maker, i now theres some uk company that makes kit cars, don't now thier name, whatever company makes noble m 12's (noble possibly ?) and ford's a common misconception... i used to think it was british...

Seamus Fermanagh

11-07-2008, 21:04

I'm sorry, I forgot that I am one of those moronic Conservatives that will try to make the party worse. I don't think that our opinions are all that different. I'll give Obama the benefit of the doubt on everything EXCEPT the abortion issue. If gay marriage proponents win in a legitimate way through legislation, I will be frustrated, but I'll move on. I will never move on from the abortion issue until there is a tremendous change in opinion and the level of callousness.

No, I did not say that of you -- nor imply it. You suggested you might like to take a leadership role now, since there were no competent hands at the helm. I was commenting that I would not want a leadership role -- at least as currently formulated -- because the current thrust and framework of things is off base. I do not think you part of the problem and do not reject your support for the GOP. If I caused you to believe that there was ANY personal aspersion attached to my comment, then I apologize for the lack of clarity in what I wrote. Any anger I feel is towards the poor performance of a political party that should have, collectively, known better.

You and I are, most probably, fairly closely aligned in social viewpoints. You are, perhaps, a tad more ready to legislate same. That's about it.

ICantSpellDawg

11-07-2008, 21:36

No, I did not say that of you -- nor imply it. You suggested you might like to take a leadership role now, since there were no competent hands at the helm. I was commenting that I would not want a leadership role -- at least as currently formulated -- because the current thrust and framework of things is off base. I do not think you part of the problem and do not reject your support for the GOP. If I caused you to believe that there was ANY personal aspersion attached to my comment, then I apologize for the lack of clarity in what I wrote. Any anger I feel is towards the poor performance of a political party that should have, collectively, known better.

You and I are, most probably, fairly closely aligned in social viewpoints. You are, perhaps, a tad more ready to legislate same. That's about it.

Okay, sorry I got the wrong idea.

m52nickerson

11-07-2008, 22:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
That made my brain hurt.

CountArach

11-07-2008, 22:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
Hehe those guys are great. Here's another one:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=SpK6RipZkMs

Crazed Rabbit

11-08-2008, 09:16

It's official, Darcy Burner has lost (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008365718_web8thwinner07m.html), by more votes than last time (http://vote.wa.gov/Elections/WEI/ResultsByCounty.aspx?ElectionID=26&RaceID=12&CountyCode=%20&JurisdictionTypeID=3&RaceTypeCode=O&ViewMode=Results).

Aww, she's a bit grumpy:

Burner did not call Reichert to concede tonight and could not be reached for comment. In a statement, she said: "It is likely at this point that Congressman Reichert has won re-election, and while we will certainly ensure that every valid vote is counted, we accept the decision of the voters.

:laugh4:

CR

Banquo's Ghost

11-08-2008, 10:11

This article from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/us_elections_2008/7717034.stm) amused me, less for the coverage of Obama's news conference (which I watched and agree that it went well) but for the acronym.

The president-elect's first news conference since his powerful victory speech contained no major new message on the economy - indeed you got the impression that the event had been called not because Mr Obama had anything new to say, but because there was such hunger to hear him say something.

Mr Obama was ringed by his 17-strong Transition Economic Advisory Team, and he underlined the core messages of his campaign - about the depth of the economic crisis, the pain facing families losing jobs and homes, and his determination to put together a stimulus package to help.

So, DevDave has been right all along. There really will be a government TEAT. :bounce:

AlexanderSextus

11-08-2008, 11:07

:wall::wall::wall:

Those "_________ are not stupid" videos made me want to break my computer screen, and track down those people, so i could beat the dookie out of them while screaming the answers.

Americans
"*BAM!* We LOST the Vietnam war! *BAM!* They use POUNDS in England!

British

"*WHAM!* Ford is made in AMERICA! *WHAM!* Peugeots are made in FRANCE *WHAM!* JAGUAR is a british car!

:furious3::furious3: :wall::wall::wall:

Banquo's Ghost

11-08-2008, 14:06

British

"*WHAM!* Ford is made in AMERICA! *WHAM!* Peugeots are made in FRANCE *WHAM!* JAGUAR is a british car!

:furious3::furious3: :wall::wall::wall:

Well, many Fords have been assembled in the UK (and other places than the States) since 1911. Jaguar was recently owned by Ford, who sold it to Tata, so Jaguar is really Indian.

Not quite so easy, is it?

Lemur

11-08-2008, 15:06

Bill Ayers, the centerpiece of the McCain campaign, speaks (http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/4028/what_a_long_strange_trip_its_been). For the most part he sounds like any hippie professor, but this one bit stands out:

Obama has continually been asked to defend something that ought to be at democracy’s heart: the importance of talking to as many people as possible in this complicated and wildly diverse society, of listening with the possibility of learning something new, and of speaking with the possibility of persuading or influencing others.

The McCain-Palin attacks not only involved guilt by association, they also assumed that one must apply a political litmus test to begin a conversation.

CountArach

11-08-2008, 22:16

It's official, Darcy Burner has lost (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008365718_web8thwinner07m.html), by more votes than last time (http://vote.wa.gov/Elections/WEI/ResultsByCounty.aspx?ElectionID=26&RaceID=12&CountyCode=%20&JurisdictionTypeID=3&RaceTypeCode=O&ViewMode=Results).
She didn't comment to the Seattle Times because they were the ones who looked at her degree (I didn't see the Article, so I'm not going to argue about the veracity of their claims). She did, however, Email her supporters/donators (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/7/235124/567/726/657275).

Lemur

11-09-2008, 19:20

Wow, I guess calling for Obama's impeachment (http://www.obamaimpeachment.org/) before he has even served a day in office wasn't sufficient. Now the recession is his fault too (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-onthemedia9-2008nov09,0,800478.story). I'm struggling to find the logic that makes that possible, but maybe I shouldn't try too hard.

"The Obama recession is in full swing, ladies and gentlemen," Limbaugh told his radio audience of 15 million to 20 million on Thursday. "Stocks are dying, which is a precursor of things to come. This is an Obama recession. Might turn into a depression."

Apparently the tanking of the real estate market, record losses in the auto industry, and massive failures in the banking and investment industry have very little to do with our problems. The economic system is collapsing, Rush wants us to know, because it anticipates the tax increases Obama has pledged on capital gains and for the highest income earners.

But maybe that shouldn't be so surprising, because radio's Biggest Big Man also assures us that the Democrat welcomes "economic chaos" because it gives him "greater opportunity for expanded government." In a time when the nation calls out for cool leadership and rational discussion, Limbaugh stirs the caldron, a tendency he proved in a particularly grotesque way last week when he accused Obama's party of plotting a government takeover of 401(k) retirement plans.

"They're going to take your 401(k), put it in the Social Security trust fund, whatever the hell that is," Limbaugh woofed. "Trust fund, my rear end."

A slight problem with Limbaugh's report: Obama and the Democrats have proposed no such thing.

The proposal, in fact, emanated from a single economist, one of many experts testifying to a congressional committee.

The president-elect has thus far shown as much interest in taking over your 401(k) as he has in moving the capital to Nairobi. (If you look hard, you might find that one somewhere out there in the blogosphere, too.)

To broadcast such a report -- so drained of context as to constitute a lie -- would be a shameless act at any time. But Limbaugh needlessly stirred the fears of the millions he holds in his thrall -- making the 401(k) thievery sound like nearly a done deal.

Shaka_Khan

11-09-2008, 19:39

McCain said that he made some mistakes. I'm sure we all know at least one of his mistakes.

Hooahguy

11-09-2008, 21:42

CountArach

11-09-2008, 21:45

McCain said that he made some mistakes. I'm sure we all know at least one of his mistakes.
Running?

Hooahguy

11-09-2008, 21:50

Running?
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
true, very true.

Marshal Murat

11-10-2008, 02:39

But maybe that shouldn't be so surprising, because radio's Biggest Big Man also assures us that the Democrat welcomes "economic chaos" because it gives him "greater opportunity for expanded government." In a time when the nation calls out for cool leadership and rational discussion, Limbaugh stirs the caldron, a tendency he proved in a particularly grotesque way last week when he accused Obama's party of plotting a government takeover of 401(k) retirement plans.

"They're going to take your 401(k), put it in the Social Security trust fund, whatever the hell that is," Limbaugh woofed. "Trust fund, my rear end."

Now, I do take offense at the seemingly political spin the reporter puts on Rush Limbaugh. The "stirs the caldron" makes him sound like he's Hecate, planning to destroy Democracy and Freedom, which I doubt he is. Besides, it's not like another hour of news reports will sway Limbaugh's supporters. Aren't they the most educated in current affairs of all media listeners?

Rush Limbaugh is, however, making a point about...
Replacing the tax credit on 401(k)s (http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=20179546&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8)
Source 2 (http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/25/83/58.php)

House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller, D-California, and Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Washington, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee’s Subcommittee on Income Security and Family Support, are looking at redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute....
She has been in contact with Miller and McDermott about her plan, and they are interested in pursuing it, she said....
However, most political observers believe that Democrats are poised to gain seats in both the House and the Senate, so comments made by the mostly Democratic members who attended the hearing could be a harbinger of things to come.

I would also like to point out that the economy runs on perceptions and it also runs in cycles. Bush caught the downside of the wave. The executive and legislative branches failed to act effectively, failing to respond to the recession we are currently going through. So when the 'change' candidate fails to effectively rectify it (even though he really can't change it) and the economy slumps after he is elected, it can't be Bush's fault. I think it's pretty ridiculous for anything swift to happen. Obama and Bush both recognize that the stimulus will work in the long-term, we just have to wait until it kicks in. I just want to see how the media treats Obama's "wait it out" versus Bush's "wait it out".

Seamus Fermanagh

11-10-2008, 02:51

Limbaugh is capable of incisive analysis. However, he has a vested interest in "stirring the pot."

In this latest kefluffle, he has conflated two trial balloons: the current one floated by a single Dem economist about 401ks and the other the 1993 Clinton Admin balloon about a one-time tax on 401ks to assist social security. Neither trial balloon met with a lot of support -- even within the Democrat party.

Limbaugh is carefully "spinning" this so that his listeners construe these actions along the lines of:
"This is what we really want to do when we have the power to do so." There are, no doubt, some few Dems who would love to do just that. However, there are also a few GOP types who want us to first strike Iran and NK using nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. Neither leadership cadre is that far removed from reality so as to support the REALLY whackoid fringers on their own team.

Limbaugh is still less of a GOP rubber stamp than Hannity, but he is an ENTERTAINER and not responsible for governing. When and if he runs, THEN he can do more than stir the pot. At his best, he brings an incisive edge to conservatism and energizes people in their beliefs.

ICantSpellDawg

11-10-2008, 03:01

Uesugi Kenshin

11-10-2008, 20:40

Hannity has always struck me as an aggressive rubber stamp, too. Limbaugh is bright enough and has interesting ideas, but incendiary. Coulter is funny but embodies a similar flippancy that I find revolting in Democratic leaning political comedians. - why would I accept it from the right?

Because you are right?

I feel like people generally tolerate pundits smearing the opposition more they they tolerate their foes smearing people they agree with.

I think we're all probably guilty of that to some degree, but I try to keep that to a minimum.

Hooahguy

11-10-2008, 21:41

now we know how obama won pennsylvania....
man votes twice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuHXF0016qE)
:laugh4:

naut

11-11-2008, 06:01

I love Leunig.

https://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9100/leunigyi9.jpg

CountArach

11-11-2008, 06:13

I love Leunig.

https://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9100/leunigyi9.jpg
:laugh4: Genius!

Louis VI the Fat

11-11-2008, 16:23

Maps? I love maps! (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/)

We are all familiar with the state-by-state result. Here's the result map at county level. With the exception of New England, the central and upper Midwest and areas in the Southwest, the two America's are, it seems, for all the theories that are devoted to it, on the most basic level simply the difference between rural and urban America.

https://img236.imageshack.us/img236/1932/countymapredbluer512lb5.png

Louis VI the Fat

11-11-2008, 16:46

'Maps? I love maps!' Part II

One for the connaisseur. Lovely Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?docId=1000261611&tag=omnivoracious-20) feature.

Tell us what you order on Amazon and we tell you what you vote! Great tool. The whole of America's political divides on a concise map.

One can even tell the difference between the different kinds of Democrats and Republicans:
California - Naomi Klein.
New York - Dreams from my Father by Obama

Talk Radio Republicanism
Alabama - Bill O'Reilly
Mississippi - Bill O'Reilly

More highbrow Republicanism
Virginia - Boykin. Never Surrender: A Soldier's Journey to the Crossroads of Faith and Freedom
North Carolina - Boykin. Never Surrender: A Soldier's Journey to the Crossroads of Faith and Freedom

Texas, Texas. Oh dear. :no:
Blue Texas - Alinsky, Rules for Radicals.
Red Texas - Fleeced: How Barack Obama, Media Mockery of Terrorist Threats, Liberals Who Want to Kill Talk Radio, the Do-Nothing Congress, Companies That Help Iran, and Washington Lobbyists for Foreign Governments Are Scamming Us ... and What to Do About It.

And the favourite political literature of Palinland is...

https://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7017/208363674aj5.jpg

'Megarockstar, Deerslayer, Patriot, and Bestselling Author'

Yep. Really. Alaska's best selling political work. :beam:

Lemur

11-11-2008, 17:52

Oh, so you wanna play with maps? I gotcher maps right here (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/).

The most interesting one, by my count:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/countymappurpler512.png

Strike For The South

11-11-2008, 19:24

'
Texas, Texas. Oh dear. :no:
Blue Texas - Alinsky, Rules for Radicals.
Red Texas - Fleeced: How Barack Obama, Media Mockery of Terrorist Threats, Liberals Who Want to Kill Talk Radio, the Do-Nothing Congress, Companies That Help Iran, and Washington Lobbyists for Foreign Governments Are Scamming Us ... and What to Do About It.

We're thinking outside the box!

Yoyoma1910

11-11-2008, 19:40

Louis VI the Fat

11-11-2008, 20:46

It would seem by this map, that Obama is most popular with people who live along rivers.Where there's water, there is an influx of strangers, of new goods, of new ideas. Cities and empires on waters are more open, more liberal, more progressive than land based cities. You see the same pattern in Europe.
Compare Athens with Sparta. The Greek island states with Persia. Russia and England. Catalonia and Castillia. It is a universal pattern, as old as civilization.

We're thinking outside the box! Hah! I bet you've actually read my new all-time favourite book: 'Fleeced: How Barack Obama, Media Mockery of Terrorist Threats, Liberals Who Want to Kill Talk Radio, the Do-Nothing Congress, Companies That Help Iran, and Washington Lobbyists for Foreign Governments Are Scamming Us ... and What to Do About It.'

CountArach

11-12-2008, 00:06

Oh, so you wanna play with maps? I gotcher maps right here (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/).
I love cartograms :laugh4:

ICantSpellDawg

11-12-2008, 01:49

Oh, so you wanna play with maps? I gotcher maps right here (http://www-personal.umich.edu/%7Emejn/election/2008/).

The most interesting one, by my count:

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/countymappurpler512.png

I was looking for this map.

Ironside

11-12-2008, 18:32

Lemur

11-12-2008, 19:02

I it just me, or is the weakest blue states feeling red when looking on that map?
Could you re-phrase that sentence? 'Cause I've read it five times now, and I can't figure out what you mean ...

Ronin

11-12-2008, 19:27

Could you re-phrase that sentence? 'Cause I've read it five times now, and I can't figure out what you mean ...

I think he means that states that were won by slim margins by the democrats show up as mostly red on the map.

that is because the democrats won many states by winning the urban counties that are more heavily populated against the rural counties carried by the GOP.....so in some states by just winning 2 or 3 major cities you can win the state.....even if most of the state shows up as "RED"

Ironside

11-12-2008, 20:33

Could you re-phrase that sentence? 'Cause I've read it five times now, and I can't figure out what you mean ...

The purple that's a weak blue state makes it look like a red state, even when it's blue. Compare this map to the simple red-blue one in the link. This one feels way more red.

Edit:

Gah, I'm not about rural vs cities (I got that part a long time ago, last election or something), it's about them choosing a poor colour to represent counties (I've been sloppy there, calling them states), that went something like 51% blue. They still look like they're red by looking on that map.

CountArach

11-12-2008, 21:31

The purple that's a weak blue state makes it look like a red state, even when it's blue. Compare this map to the simple red-blue one in the link. This one feels way more red.
Rural counties vote overwhelmingly Republican and they make up the majority of the country. The Purple counties are more likely to be either ones with large towns and some rural areas, or some usually Republican Suburban areas where McCain couldn't quite connect. The deepest blue areas are almost entirely Urban, often inner-city counties.

Seamus Fermanagh

11-12-2008, 22:08

The best "map" would be adjusted to depict counties not only by color (percentage of vote) but by relevant population of county (size). It would be much more blued then.