Historical facts and the faction of Great Briton

[Fisherking]

At the start of the game period William III is King of England. Scotland is still in name independent but at least part of Holland is ruled by William.

Union with Scotland didn’t take place until 1707 and it was a near thing even with the bribes and threats of the Crown.

After the death of Queen Ann(of Denmark) and George I takes the throne of the now united Great Briton he also rules Hanover as do his decedents until 1837 or there abouts.

George I was such a likable guy that his eldest son (and the only one conceived in wedlock) was a Jacobite sympathizer. It was quipped that he could not have been that bad a fellow for in his whole life he never hated more than three people, his mother, his wife, and his son.
The only redeeming feature this man had so far as anyone in Briton could see was that he was a protestant. It was said that the only person who ever enjoyed his company was his mistress, and she was a simpleton.

Now the Jacobites were still about and Scotland and Ireland none too happy with the Union. Not only that but there were plenty of malcontents in England her self that wouldn’t mind a change in government. There were various revolts in the next 50 years both foreign backed and home grown.

(Had the Jacobites succeeded it would have made a political impact but not destroyed the kingdom.)

I just wonder how all of this will be handled in the game…or will it just be ignored or scripted in some fashion.

[Martok]

Well we already know that a Jacobite rebellion is possible, although like the American Revolution, it will only happen under the proper circumstances. I'm not sure how Irish & Scottish dissent will be handled, but from what CA has said, it does sound like it could definitely be a factor in managing British affairs.

[Fisherking]

It all leads to questions, questions, and more questions

Hanover may not be a playable faction, or will it become a British possession?

Are the Dutch automatically allied with the British? And do the Danes do the same?

If you play the French, Spanish, etc. can you spend money to aid and foment a Jacobite Rebellion?

Could the Jacobites be a whole separate faction…waiting to emerge under the right conditions?

What happens when the same person is ruler of more than one land? Though they may have two different sets of ministers…

[Mailman653]

Giving money to rebel factions sounds like a nifty idea. What better way to weaken my enemies than to give money to fund a revolution.

[Polemists]

I really do hope they fix rebel factions this time around.

If I have to bribe a handful of brigands again the wealth of a entire nation for 50 soliders I'm going to be miffed.

It would be nice if the rebel factions had a little more personality then just "Rebels"

[Martok]

Well going by what CA's said thus far, I think the term "rebels" are going to mean something very different this time around. When rebels appear in Empire, they won't be your garden variety mob of brigands you could easily squash with only your thumb. The odds are that if a rebel army shows up, you're going to have an actual battle on your hands. :sweatdrop:

Also, CA has stated there will be no rebel-controlled provinces in ETW. All regions will be owned by one faction or another.

[Polemists]

Also, CA has stated there will be no rebel-controlled provinces in ETW. All regions will be owned by one faction or another

Great, but I also couldn't bribe any other factions members in MTW2 either, I think the bribe button got broke.

12,000 florins for one unit of crossbowmen? Your insane milan :P

[Knight of the Rose]

What happens when the same person is ruler of more than one land? Though they may have two different sets of ministers…

Interesting thought. This is a period where nation states evolved. Formerly land was "owned" by a king, and the mere idea of a land as a "nation" was unknown. This changes, dramatically, during the time-frame.

But I think it we are safe to assume, that we do not control a dynasty, but a "nation". So you won't see rulers that control to different nations. In the case of the English-Dutch in the beginning of the games timeframe, they would be "allies". But I think that the game will start out as a 'tabula rasa' where you can make your enemies and alliances at your own discretion. So if you play as 'the dutch', you could probably declare England war in turn one.

/KotR

[batemonkey]

ANd what about the fact that along with George came the task of defending his ancestoral homeland, a number of times Britain was forced to do itself a diseervice to defend the Kings holdings in europe

[Martok]

@Polemists:


That's the other thing. I'm only speculating, but from what CA has said, I get the feeling that rebels can no longer be bribed.

Remember, in ETW there won't be emissaries wandering the map anymore; all diplomacy is going to be handled through a menu now. So except for rebels that appear in the diplomacy screen (and some, like the Americans, will), I don't think you'll be able to interact with them. And if rebels *do* appear as their own faction, I strongly doubt you'll be able to buy their armies from them -- they're going to need the manpower, after all. ~D

[Jolt]

Great Briton = Ireland + Scotland + Wales + Cornwall + Brittany?

[Martok]

Great Briton = Ireland + Scotland + Wales + Cornwall + Brittany?
Everything except Brittany. The mini-map in this screenshot (http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/958390/empire-total-war/images/empire-total-war-20081027025622205.html?page=mediaFull) shows it as being part of France, with the rest of the territories you mentioned flying the Union Jack.

[gardibolt]

It all leads to questions, questions, and more questions

Hanover may not be a playable faction, or will it become a British possession?





I was just reading The Rights of Man by Thomas Paine, and he talks about this a fair amount; from the perspective at the time, there was a notion that the Hanoverians considered Hanover to be their real home and were overtaxing the British subjects to support their lifestyle back home. In essence, that Britain was just a Hanoverian possession. Of course, that has completely been overwritten by subsequent history, but it's interesting that it was looked at that way. Since CA is a British company, I assume there will be no trace of that in the game.

[Freedom Onanist]

I was just reading The Rights of Man by Thomas Paine, and he talks about this a fair amount; from the perspective at the time, there was a notion that the Hanoverians considered Hanover to be their real home and were overtaxing the British subjects to support their lifestyle back home. In essence, that Britain was just a Hanoverian possession. Of course, that has completely been overwritten by subsequent history, but it's interesting that it was looked at that way. Since CA is a British company, I assume there will be no trace of that in the game.
An interesting counterpoint (from Wiki but there you go), I think it captures the slightly more complex situation than that portayed by the likes of T Paine.


Despite some unpopularity, the Protestant George I was seen by most of his subjects as a better alternative to the Roman Catholic Pretender James. William Makepeace Thackeray indicates such ambivalent feelings when he writes, "His heart was in Hanover. He was more than fifty-four years of age when he came amongst us: we took him because we wanted him, because he served our turn; we laughed at his uncouth German ways, and sneered at him ... I, for one, would have been on his side in those days. Cynical, and selfish, as he was, he was better than a King out of St Germains [James the Pretender] with a French King's orders in his pocket, and a swarm of Jesuits in his train."

Writers of the nineteenth century, such as Thackeray, Sir Walter Scott and Lord Mahon were reliant on biased first-hand accounts published in the previous century, such as Lord Hervey's memoirs, and looked back on the Jacobite cause with romantic, even sympathetic, eyes. They, in turn, influenced British authors of the first half of the twentieth century, such as G. K. Chesterton, who introduced further anti-German and anti-Protestant bias into the interpretation of George's reign. However, in the wake of World War II, continental European archives were opened to historians of the later twentieth century, and nationalistic anti-German feeling subsided. George's life and reign were re-explored by scholars, such as Beattie and Hatton, and his character, abilities and motives re-assessed in a more generous light.[83] As John H. Plumb noted, "Some historians have exaggerated the king's indifference to English affairs and made his ignorance of the English language seem more important than it was. He had little difficulty in communicating with his ministers in French, and his interest in all matters affecting both foreign policy and the court was profound."[84] Yet the character of George I remains elusive—he was in turn genial and affectionate in private letters to his daughter, and then dull and awkward in public. Perhaps his own mother summed him up when "explaining to those who regarded him as cold and overserious that he could be jolly, that he took things to heart, that he felt deeply and sincerely and was more sensitive than he cared to show."
The monarchy seen as distant German inbreds is a useful foil for the British establishment (the real one that had the power to offer a crown) and allowed it to establish the modern constitutional monarchy. A royal figurehead with little real power but all the trappings of state - much cheaper, safer and more accountability than a president...

[Rhyfelwyr]

Judging from the use of the Union Flag, Scotland will be part of Britain at the start of the game.

I really doubt CA would start making seperate family trees for Scotland and England when they were joined only seven years after the start date. There may be a message when it happens, maybe even a video, but I doubt it will be implemented into the gameplay in any way.

For this reason, I think many historical accuracy mods will start either in 1707, or perhaps 1688 if more time is needed, and depending on how suitable these dates are for the rest of Europe.

[Lord Winter]

Well William III is only alive for a little more then a year. So they'll probably just ignore that personal union and just keep the grand alliance. I'm curious how they'll handle the wars of succesion though. So many wars were fought to put a favorable canidate on your neighbors throne.