North Korea to close land border

[Mikeus Caesar]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7723729.stm



North Korea has announced that it will close the land border with South Korea from 1 December.

North Korea's army has told the South "to strictly restrict and cut off all the overland passages through the Military Demarcation Line", it said.

The decision had been taken because "reckless confrontation" from South Korea was "beyond the danger level", according to the agency.

Last month North Korea threatened to reduce the South to rubble unless it stopped activists sending anti-Pyongyang leaflets attached to balloons into the communist state.


The damn commies are getting a bit restless and uppity.

There's obviously something going on. The most likely answer is that the Dear Leader is incapacitated, and now the army has free reign to do as they please, and follow their paranoid dreams. And with a million artillery pieces pointed at Seoul, and a country that has fallen apart to the point where existence is futile, it wouldn't surprise me if at some point in the near future North Korea goes full retard and follows through on their promise to reduce the South to rubble.

[CountArach]

I'd say that army is prearing for something in case South Korea gets uppity with the Dear Leader incapacitated. I would say this won't lead to anything, just more muscle flexing.

[Shaka_Khan]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7723729.stm
And with a million artillery pieces pointed at Seoul,
I think you confused artillery with soldiers. North Korea does have a lot of artillery pieces (hidden underground) pointed at Seoul, but the million is referred to the number of soldiers.

[Mikeus Caesar]

I think you confused artillery with soldiers. North Korea does have a lot of artillery pieces (hidden underground) pointed at Seoul, but the million is referred to the number of soldiers.

I was using 'million' as a euphemism for 'a :daisy: lot'. I think i read somewhere that their artillery numbers are around 8-10,000. Ultimately, regardless of how many they have, they can quite easily flatten Seoul within hours in a first-strike attack. But then, you also have to take into consideration that this is North Korea, and wonder just how much working shells they actually have. After all, you can stockpile a billion shells for 50 years, but they won't all necessarily be working when you finally use them.

[InsaneApache]

I doubt that the North Korans could mount an effective fight. The economies in one hell of a state.

My moneys on the Dear Leader being tucked up in his death bed.

I could do a better photoshop piccy than they did and I'm crap at it. :laugh4:

[edyzmedieval]

I know I am going to be criticised and attacked for this, but I will say it - I am looking forward to this war, or more likely, the aftermath of this war.

I would actually want North Korea to declare war so they will get their :daisy: kicked, and from there, we shall mourn the dead, but we will save future generations. The North will finally come into the normal world, and they will stop with their communist ********. The price that will be paid for the unfortunate who will die in such a war will be worth it for the future.

[LittleGrizzly]

*criticises and attacks edyz's character*

Doesn't seem that bad a thing to say, i suppose in an ideal world we'd be rooting for kim to die (as much as i don't wish death on anyone he isn't going to give up power, and he's crazy, so death is only option) and that his sucessor will see the light and bring N Korea into the civilised world

Out of interest does kim have a natural hier or will it be one of the top generals getting it via a power grab...

What's the theory's on NK's artillery capacity... we now they have a lot of artillery pieces... but whats the matinence on artillery pieces like... are they likely to mostly still work or do they require alot of attention ?

And this million man army, i assume its fairly poorly trained and equipped... but what are the levels of loyalty like among the solidiers, can we expect mass surrender or a fight to the death mentality ?

Edit: All that said i don't expect the north to launch an attack anytime soon, im assuming whoever does take over will be competent enough to realise a war is unwinnable

[Banquo's Ghost]

The price that will be paid for the unfortunate who will die in such a war will be worth it for the future.

Excellent. Gentlemen, we have our first volunteer.

:wall:

[LittleGrizzly]

I think thats being a bit harsh, without being idealistic what are the chances of NK joining the rest of the world anytime soon ?

The fact is with the level of starvation and poverty in NK they would probably make up thier losses in not too long of a time, edyz is just taking the long term view of the situation....

Though i think SK's losses would be considerable and they aren't going to be able to make up the deaths as easily...

[Banquo's Ghost]

Wishing for war, and arguing that some future outcome will be "worth" the death of the "unfortunates" is a reprehensible position.

If edyz is planning to be the first to sacrifice himself for this possible future, then fair enough - though even then such a war is going to involve many people dying, who may not be quite so keen. If other people are going to die, then I rather think they have more say in whether it will be "worth it".

There are some times when war is unavoidable. One should never wish it.

[Mikeus Caesar]

*criticises and attacks edyz's character*

Doesn't seem that bad a thing to say, i suppose in an ideal world we'd be rooting for kim to die (as much as i don't wish death on anyone he isn't going to give up power, and he's crazy, so death is only option) and that his sucessor will see the light and bring N Korea into the civilised world

Out of interest does kim have a natural hier or will it be one of the top generals getting it via a power grab...

What's the theory's on NK's artillery capacity... we now they have a lot of artillery pieces... but whats the matinence on artillery pieces like... are they likely to mostly still work or do they require alot of attention ?

And this million man army, i assume its fairly poorly trained and equipped... but what are the levels of loyalty like among the solidiers, can we expect mass surrender or a fight to the death mentality ?

Edit: All that said i don't expect the north to launch an attack anytime soon, im assuming whoever does take over will be competent enough to realise a war is unwinnable

1) The Dear Leader isn't crazy, actually. He's quite smart, his problem is that he's a lazy, arrogant and conceited :daisy:, who cares more about his own personal comfort than the wellbeing of his people. Hence the reason the combination of his leadership and the failure of global communism has brought DPRK to such a position right now.

2) That's why his having a possible stroke is a big deal - he's not set out an heir. Dear Leader was selected by his father, Kim Il Sung, many years, if not decades before his death. Kim Jong Il on the other hand, has done no such thing.

3) Artillery capacity is xbox hueg. Most of their strategy lies around pounding the crap out of everything South of the border. The question about their condition also couples in with the quality of their famed million man army. In the 90's, with things gradually getting worse for the country, the 'Army first' policy was implemented. The entire country puts all its resources towards the army first. Soldiers are better fed than civilians, and presumably vehicles and weapons maintained. Although, in recent years this seems to be faltering. More and more DPRK soldiers are reported as looking like famine victims dragged out of Africa, with sunken cheeks. If that's what it's like for the army, can only imagine the hell the civvies are going through. Lends credence to the rumours of grass-eating and cannibalism. As for the mentality of their army - the entire country is brainwashed. As far as they know, they really are the best country in the world. The rest of the world is hell, a million times worse than us. Combined with the massive pervading cult of personality built around the nepotical dictatorship, they will happily fight till the last man.

Ultimately, if things were to detoriorate for some reason (i.e some muppet on either side accidentally fires off a mortar into the other side), then the next big horrific modern war with giant casualties won't come out of the Balkans, or any of the usual places (*cough* Western Europe). It'll be Korea. It's highly unlikely it would spread, as no one, not even China, would be willing to back up North Korea in their final blaze of glory, but the civilian casualties and destruction would be massive, especially on the Southern side.

As for edyz...you should be ashamed of yourself, making such comments just after Remembrance Day. Hell, you should be ashamed of yourself just for suggesting such things. No war is ever worth it for the future. Tell the millions who suffered through the Great War that it was worth it. Tell my Great Uncle that his death in some muddy little field in Belgium was for a better future. A future that didn't result in another world consuming war, and the use of the most horrific weapon mankind has ever created. You just think about that.

And on a lighter note, for your entertainment purposes, the official website of the People's Democratic Republic of Korea.

http://www.korea-dpr.com/

Yes, they truly are mad when it comes to the propaganda.



Only few people in the world know that Korea is divided by a big concrete wall in the Parallel 38 that was built by the United States of America when the Korean War finished.This wall is hundreds of times bigger than the one that existed in Germany and is separating the Korean families, brothers, parents... the nation is divided because the U.S.A. is dominating the southern part and keeps an army of more than 40.000 soldiers to avoid the union of the Korean people.

Korea is an independent and sovereign state, but the South is still controlled by the
imperialist interests and the U.S. troops .If any South Korean citizen tries to visit North Korea crossing the big concrete wall, he'll be killed by the american soldiers. The 'Security Law' in South Korea forbides to any South Korean citizen to talk or read about the North or else he'll be punished with jail or even death penalty.


This is what communists actually believe, to paraquote South Park.

[Jolt]

Well, considering the current state of the World Economy, should NK quickly obliterate SK as they should, and the USA intervening on behalf of SK (That would certainly boost Obama's position greatly as a defender of freedom and liberty), I wouldn't be too surprised if China decided to finally show themselves as a true power to the world by helping NK, in contrast with the faltering economy and declining power of the USA. If they did that, then the unification would certainly be decided in favour of NK. In any case, top chance is that NK's nukes won't hit anything, considering the only two possible targets NK would have for them: 1. They'd have reduced Seoul to rubble in a forthcoming attack, so nothing would be gained from it. 2. Attacking Japan/Tokyo could be stupid since Japan has one of the most advanced NMD's around. Attacking the USA mainland is impossible since I'm sure from the beginning of the war the USA would have 100 satelites all over NK spotting whether a missile would be launched or no.

With one million troops, and an economy completely converted to militarism, a NK preemptive strike would destroy Seoul in their first artillery barrages, take the rubbled capital in the first day, at most, and conquer the peninsula in a week at most.

[LittleGrizzly]

I fail to see whats so reprehensible about wishing for a war when you think it will be better in the long term for the country, if you truely think it is in the countrys best interest then i fail to see it as a bad thing, of course you could say you are wishing the deaths of the thousands that would be lost to the war, but couldn't a similar remark be made about those not hoping for a war, as in you are wishing people to starve and die in poverty in the long run rather than taking the short term pain for the long term gain...

Mikeus, the korean war edyz envisioned is a far more useful war than ww1, ww1 was basically senseless slaughter over our leaders empire building, edyz korean war is one to free the people of North Korea

2) That's why his having a possible stroke is a big deal - he's not set out an heir. Dear Leader was selected by his father, Kim Il Sung, many years, if not decades before his death. Kim Jong Il on the other hand, has done no such thing.

Is there a natural successor... such as a son or a top general... or could there be a few top guys who will compete for the position ?

More and more DPRK soldiers are reported as looking like famine victims dragged out of Africa, with sunken cheeks. If that's what it's like for the army, can only imagine the hell the civvies are going through.

I remember watching video footage smuggled out of NK and there where just dead people on the street, literally just died from poverty (disease or starvation) in the middle of the street and people were just walking past completely unfazed... as if it was an everyday occurence...... from what i have seen and know cannabilism isn't too much of a strech of the imagination

The rest of the world is hell, a million times worse than us. Combined with the massive pervading cult of personality built around the nepotical dictatorship, they will happily fight till the last man.

I suspected so... so would we see similar resistance to the japanese in ww2, or perhaps even worse...

It's highly unlikely it would spread, as no one, not even China, would be willing to back up North Korea in their final blaze of glory, but the civilian casualties and destruction would be massive, especially on the Southern side.

I think China just has too much of a vested interest in the world economy to back such an attack..

[edyzmedieval]

*criticises and attacks edyz's character*

Doesn't seem that bad a thing to say, i suppose in an ideal world we'd be rooting for kim to die (as much as i don't wish death on anyone he isn't going to give up power, and he's crazy, so death is only option) and that his sucessor will see the light and bring N Korea into the civilised world

Out of interest does kim have a natural hier or will it be one of the top generals getting it via a power grab...

What's the theory's on NK's artillery capacity... we now they have a lot of artillery pieces... but whats the matinence on artillery pieces like... are they likely to mostly still work or do they require alot of attention ?

And this million man army, i assume its fairly poorly trained and equipped... but what are the levels of loyalty like among the solidiers, can we expect mass surrender or a fight to the death mentality ?

Edit: All that said i don't expect the north to launch an attack anytime soon, im assuming whoever does take over will be competent enough to realise a war is unwinnable

Kim does have 3 sons, which one of them will take power. I hope it will be the second oldest of them, as he studied in Switzerland, so we can hope for a more democratic and liberal mind.

I firmly believe that Kim is on his death bed, or at least very ill at this very moment. It is a time for change and I think a complete overthrow and overhaul of North Korea is needed. The army isn't very loyal to them, it's only loyal enough for Kim to rely on their support. In the case Kim and the army leaders die, it's goodbye. They would stop fighting. The army is poorly fed, trained and equipped - it's North Korea man, what do you expect? They have around 1 million men active, with a huge number of reserves too.

In case of war, unfortunately, a LOT of people will die. Plus even after the war is over things will be even worse in the first 1-2 years, so people will die even after the war.
I'm not saying that I wish war deliberately, it is just that if war happens now it will be much better for the future generations, it's just something that will happen sooner or later unfortunately. It was bound to happen, the North leaders are absolutely ballistic. Imagine if there is a coup and they overthrow Kim and his family, and some maniac army chief takes over and decides to attack Korea.

[KrooK]

Its very good that they closed borders. Now rest of the world can stop deliverin them food and feeding that regine. Trust me - best way to broke tyrany is show people under tyrany that;
1. they have no food
2. into democracy they would have food
3. they can reach democracy if they broke regime
4. broken regime = food.
Simply, easy and ... cheap.

I would not be afraid of North Korea invading south. North might have bigger army but south have few times better. Some years ago there were sea battle beetwen light units of these countries and modern southern ships crushed northern. Same will happen with land units.

[CountArach]

I don't know KrooK, I'm going to guess North Korea has a :daisy: load of rice.

[edyzmedieval]

About the war issue, we have the following alternatives:

- no war, we try to make peace, succeeds - seems highly unlikely now, plus they won't change to democracy and capitalism
- no war, we try to make peace, doesn't succeed, next generations are lost - looks like it's gonna be that way
- war, North Korea is defeated, the entire peninsula is united under a democratic rule - future generations are saved, however many lives are lost due to the intense fighting
- war, North Korea defeats South Korea, with Chinese help (this should be taken into account) - if USA and China fight, we have the third World War - I DO NOT WANT THIS AT ALL

So what's your take of the pie? Lives now for lives later or lives later for even later lives? Diplomacy might fail, war might fail too. It's a very risky business.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

My bet would be that they're simply doing their version of a peaceful transfer of power.

In my country, we broadcast the whole thing and the world gets to watch as one President sits there and becomes an ex-pres while the new person takes all the power and perks. We'll get to see another rendition (assuming that word isn't outlawed) on 20 January.

NK's last was Father-to-son and occurred with lots of clamp downs to keep everybody in line. This time, there is no obvious father-son setup so.... I'd say they're just upping the crowd control while discussing who gets to be the new fragrant leader.

Remember, the first rule of thumb for analyzing dictatorships is to assume its for INTERNAL reasons that they're doing X -- foreign aggression isn't the first likely explanation.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Wishing for war, and arguing that some future outcome will be "worth" the death of the "unfortunates" is a reprehensible position.I myself would not be...erm...'opposed' to war.

Some time ago I saw a documentary about North Korea's gulag. I see quite a few documentaries and have ploughed my way through Goldhagen's shocking accounts of WWII. But this one...oh my. :embarassed:

The drawings, the eyewitness accounts, the smuggled videos...it was shocking. Amongst the very worst I've ever seen. I couldn't eat again that day. :shame:

It is horrific. A harrowing thought to think that it is happening right now. The Congo is too complicated to solve with foreign intervention. North Korea, I think, is the best candidate were a simple regime change will have a tremendous impact on human rights improvement.


Quite apart from the Gulag, one can wonder whether North Korea hasn't been turned into one big concentration camp in the first place.


North Korea has a lot of riceThree million people died of starvation a few years ago. Hunger, in fact, is one of North Korea's means of total control, in the camps and outside of the camps.

[CountArach]

Three million people died of starvation a few years ago. Hunger, in fact, is one of North Korea's means of total control, in the camps and outside of the camps.
Really? I didn't know that.

[King Henry V]

And on a lighter note, for your entertainment purposes, the official website of the People's Democratic Republic of Korea.

http://www.korea-dpr.com/


I say! They even have a forum! Does anybody fancy having a bit of sport and wreaking some havoc? I think I'll register as Comrade Dimitri...

[KrooK]

Lol Louis
How could you said something like that. Now - I have to tell that
we have same point of view. Luckily I said long time ago that North Korea is criminal country
and its people should have been saved long time ago.

And as you said - North Korea has practically no agriculture. Practically all food is human support from red cross and similar.Its funny because they yell that we are so bad capitalists and we feed them since about 1990.

[CountArach]

I say! They even have a forum! Does anybody fancy having a bit of sport and wreaking some havoc? I think I'll register as Comrade Dimitri...
I am right behind you Comrade!

Signed,
Comrade Trotsky

Yaaaargh :pirate:

[Louis VI the Fat]

Edyz and Krook, I guess it shows that the two of you are from former communist countries. More acutely aware of the depths of the crimes committed by totalitarian regimes.
I have no tolerance for communist regimes either.



More than five years of severe food shortages and a near-total breakdown in the public health system have led to devastating malnutrition in North Korea and probably left an entire generation of children physically and mentally impaired, a new study by international aid groups has found.

The study, the first scientific nutritional survey in North Korea, confirms the disturbing reports of international aid workers, who in the last year have gained increasing access to the population of the highly isolated and secretive country.

Among other findings, researchers from the World Food Program, Unicef and the European Union found that, because of long-term food shortages, a staggering 62 percent of children under 7 years old suffer from stunted growth. The shocking thing? This study is from ten years (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9B04E4DF103AF933A25751C1A96E958260) ago.

Since that time, two million people died of starvation. As we speak, mass starvation looms again. The food (http://www.americablog.com/2008/10/un-warns-of-mass-starvation-in-north.html)supplies ran out in last month.

'Around 2.7 million people on North Korea's west coast will run out of food in October, the World Food Program said in a report released on Tuesday.

The food shortage warning comes as the North has ratcheted up its hostile rhetoric against South Korea and its president amid fraying ties.'

I said in my previous post that NK uses starvation as an instrument against its population. This is true in the camps. After reading up a bit more, it is not true outside of them I think. I think the regime really doesn't have the situation under control and are using it in foreign policy. Are they currently trying to extort South Korea, Japan, the US and Europe again to supply food?
The diabolical truth is, that the NK regime knows that we care about Korean deaths, and they do not. And they blackmail us with it.

[King Henry V]

I am right behind you Comrade!

Signed,
Comrade Trotsky

Yaaaargh :pirate:

I hope they accept my application as Dimitri Suckmeoff. I gave my address as 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, so I will be watching the News of the Weird closely for "Suspected North Korean Mole Inside White House!!!!"

[CountArach]

I hope they accept my application as Dimitri Suckmeoff. I gave my address as 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, so I will be watching the News of the Weird closely for "Suspected North Korean Mole Inside White House!!!!"
I've decided I'm going to sign up as Comrade Colbert and post a thread asking: "George Bush: Great President or The Greatest President". Should be worth a lol or two.

[LittleGrizzly]

That forum is literally insane... next time someone starts calling people crazy communist or other such names i shall give them a link to real crazy communists !

BTW they seem to be talking about a different North Korea to us....

[spmetla]

They're forum is really funny. As if people actually sign up with their real names. The posts are frickin' hilarious, here's a sample:
I arrived in the DPRK on Tuesday 7th after having travelled to Beijing first from London..This was my 6th visit to the DPRK
On board the AIR KORYO plane to the DPRK the stewardess announced that this was the flight to Pyongyang the capital of Socialist Korea where the great leader President Kim Il Sung lays in state and the great leader comrade Kim Jong Il resides.Later she referred to the blood of Korean revolutionaries being split on the anti Japanese battlefields which the plane was passing over and finally as the plane glided towards Pyongyang she announced that we were arriving in the capital of Juche Korea.

On arriving I could see that the DPRK was in autumn and
that rice harvesting was under way. I stayed at the Koryo Hotel which is conveniently situated in the centre of Pyongyang.I
visited the Kumusan Memorial Palace where the great leader Generalissmo Kim Il Sung, the sun of Juche and eternal president of the DPRK rests.Reflecting on the achievements
of great comrade Kim Il Sung the ever victorious iron willed brilliant commander who defeated 2 imperialisms in one generation and built socialist Korea on the ruins of war
I felt awe struck and emotional.I was also able to visit his birthplace at scenic Mangyondae.
Here you can see the original straw thatch house where President Kim Il Sung was born into a poor farming family whose life was hard.I also visited the Mangyondae Revolutionary Museum for the first time.


The DPRK is upholding education in the revolutionary traditions and unlike the modern revisionists and reformists believes in respecting the forerunners of the revolution.The DPRK also maintains strong anti imperialist education and class education.I witnessed this at the Sinchon ri Museum,the caputured "USS Pueblo" and also was told at the magnificent Changgwang Kindergarten that they have a room for class education against the imperialists and class enemies like landlords and capitalists.
Visiting the "USS Pueblo" proved to an experience as it was the first time I set foot on a captured US spy ship.The 'Pueblo' in fact as well as having masses of electronic spying equipment also had 2 heavy machine guns mounted on it and stocks of rifles and grenades.In 2004 the US imperialists also inflitrated an unmanned mini submarine
which was captured and is on display.The foolhardiness and stupidity of the US is evident here as there was no way they could not have been captured.7 DPRK sailors
were able to overpower a crew of 80 Americans.The "Pueblo" is anchored at the spot were the great grandfather of the great leader comrade Kim Il Sung Kim Ung U
led the people of Pyongyang to sink the US imperialist pirate ship the "General Sherman".

I visited for the 2nd time the Sinchon Ri museum.35,383 people one quarter of the population of Sinchon county was barbarically massacared by the US imperialists. Their
atrocities at Sinchon were far worse than the Nazis.Members of the WPK and also teachers and civil servants were targetted by the US imperialists. People were murdered in the most brutal and sickening fashion.I saw the air raid shelter where the Americans had poured petrol through a ventilation hole and then set fire to people.You still see the blackened
human oils stuck to the ceiling.It was like Auschwitz or Belsen.A lot of children were starved or burnt to death.3 children managed to escape and 2 of them became guides to
the Museum.I observed a silence for the victims of the massacare.Here one can see that there cannot be compromise or co existence with the US imperialists and that the American way of life is based on violence

The trip to Sinchon Ri and the return journey at which we stopped at Sariwon City afforded a good opportunity to see the DPRK countryside at first hand.Rice was being harvested
and also maize plus apples and persimmons.I realised once and for all that the stories spread by the imperialists about "starvation" and "famine" in the DPRK are complete
nonsense with no foundation in reality.There was no sign of any crop failure and in fact there is a bumper harvest of rice as well as a record catch of cuttle fish in the West sea
of Korea.There were lots of people on the road and lots of people working in the fields,no sign of anyone starving though of course rice harvesting is hard work.I travelled back
by train to Sinuiji and saw many rural villages and rice paddies.Again the situation looked good.The scenery of the DPRK in autumn is beautiful.
I was able to walk with my guides along the bank of the Taedong river from the Okryu bridge to the Taedong bridge.People were relaxing and enjoying themselves.Some boating, some fishing and some drawing pictures or just sitting down and talking.Again no sign of starvation and no sign of the beggars or homeless that we have in London.In Pyongyang there are residential blocks of flats for working people in the centre of Pyongyang including
scenic areas like the Taedong riverside and the Monument to Party Foundation.

I was able to enjoy a barbeque with some workers from the beer factory and also coal miners who were visiting Mt Myohang.They had plenty of food(and drink) plus a portable
gas stove,cameras and camcorder.I sang the "Red Flag" with them which is sang both by Korean and British workers(it used to be sang at Labour Party conferences before
the anti Christ Tony Blair took over the Labour Party)as well the "Internationale" and some Korean songs I knew.
The DPRK follows people orientated policies.Housing is free of charge,staple food is sold at a low price.Education from nursery to university is free of charge.University students
not only do not have to pay tuition fees but get free uniforms and stay in dormitories free of charge(unlike the high rents for students in London).Health care is also free of
charge.I recieved treatment at the Namsan hospital and was given medicine free that would have cost me £21(about 35 $US dollar or 25 Euro).
I visited the excellent Changgwang kinderation which has 10 floors and includes an indoor swimming pool.Everything here including food(5 meals a day including 120g of rice) is gratis as well.
http://www.korea-dpr.com/cgi-bin/simpleforum.cgi/simpleforum.cgi?fid=04&topic_id=1224789707

[Louis VI the Fat]

Their forum is really funny. As if people actually sign up with their real names. The posts are frickin' hilarious, here's a sample:


I visited for the 2nd time the Sinchon Ri museum.35,383 people one quarter of the population of Sinchon county was barbarically massacared by the US imperialists. Their atrocities at Sinchon were far worse than the Nazis.Hey, I didn't know they linked to the .org. :smash:

[Shaka_Khan]

Lol Louis
Its funny because they yell that we are so bad capitalists and we feed them since about 1990.
North Koreans would rebel against their government if they knew the truth. The NK leader doesn't want that. That government wants to put the populace under constant fear of invasion from outside in order to control them more easily.


I hope they accept my application as Dimitri Suckmeoff. I gave my address as 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, so I will be watching the News of the Weird closely for "Suspected North Korean Mole Inside White House!!!!"
Their registration process asked for your address? :laugh4: Hmm.

[spmetla]

I saw the air raid shelter where the Americans had poured petrol through a ventilation hole and then set fire to people.You still see the blackened human oils stuck to the ceiling.

Guess the North Koreans have copies of "The Dirty Dozen" as well.

[Shaka_Khan]

Guess the North Koreans have copies of "The Dirty Dozen" as well.
They're following an old saying that goes something like, "if you keep telling the same lies, people will believe you."

[LittleGrizzly]

Yeah i read that, infact i have been reading almost all the crap they have on offer... its like a journey into the minds of completely delusional apologetic crazy people...

http://www.korea-dpr.com/cgi-bin/simpleforum.cgi?fid=01&topic_id=1180432758

This is a good one...


Can I ask, why North Korea do not have electricity at night? You can see it clearly from the satteltit's images. It looks like black spot in the World map. Even in Sachara is the light. (think he means sahara)

well I can assure you that on my 5 visits to the DPRK there was indeed electricity at night and also during the day.I would suggest that the
satellite images have been manipaulated or distorted in some way

The electirx in DPRK are some of best in world!
even when light come out, maybe in storm orvery heavy sun, people of DPRK still have the light of the general to follow them , comrade! DPRK has have the electrix more than 20 years! propaganda of rich peoples the lies about hard situation in tyhe DPRK. special sityuation, yes. some ardor, yes, but life like give on TV here in Djibouti of poor or people no food...this Somalia, not DPRK!

(anyone thinking batrix ?)


Well, even if they were correct photos,it must had been a black-out because of some military and security reasons.


I think this next guy realised how obviously everyone was lying... so with a bit of adjustment we have an anti-west rant instead

Another important thing to remember is that there are countries with adequate electricity, but many people can't afford the cost and these countries do nothing to help these people because electricity is yet another thing for some private company to make more and more money off of the people.

I heard about a woman in New Zealand recently who relied on a breathing machine to live and couldn't afford to pay her electric bill. The electric company knew she required electricity to operate her breathing machine for her survival, but they shut off her electricity anyway over an overdue bill and she died. This wasn't due to any shortage. It was due to sheer greed which breeds like a virus in capitalist societies.

In the DPRK, this shameful act would never happen because of the care that Leader Kim Jong Il and the people have for each other. The Juche based socialist system in the DPRK would never permit something as atrocious as this to happen. It is simply unimaginable. Even if there was a shortage at any particular time the people would do everything in their power to make sure that everyone had what they needed for survival.

A satellite image means absolutely nothing. One can look at an image of many major cities in the US for example and find tremendous amounts of light, but a satellite doesn't show you the homeless and hungry people living on the streets or those struggling to pay the rent each month who can't afford to pay for the electricity that the wealthy have an abundance of.

Seriously these people are crazy, they don't even have the excuse of being brainwashed in korea, they are from spain, canada, uk and america...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

https://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6924/sparta3fw0.jpg

[Banquo's Ghost]

I myself would not be...erm...'opposed' to war.

Some time ago I saw a documentary about North Korea's gulag. I see quite a few documentaries and have ploughed my way through Goldhagen's shocking accounts of WWII. But this one...oh my. :embarassed:

The drawings, the eyewitness accounts, the smuggled videos...it was shocking. Amongst the very worst I've ever seen. I couldn't eat again that day. :shame:

It is horrific. A harrowing thought to think that it is happening right now. The Congo is too complicated to solve with foreign intervention. North Korea, I think, is the best candidate were a simple regime change will have a tremendous impact on human rights improvement.


Quite apart from the Gulag, one can wonder whether North Korea hasn't been turned into one big concentration camp in the first place.

Three million people died of starvation a few years ago. Hunger, in fact, is one of North Korea's means of total control, in the camps and outside of the camps.

I don't disagree that change in North Korea would be desirable.

What I object to is the wish that this would be through the agency of a war, in which many South Koreans - as well as ordinary North Koreans - would die. The "volunteering" of these people for death in some greater cause is reprehensible when advocated by people like us, safely cosseted many miles away.

Regime change is always messy, and rarely successful when imposed from outside. (I'm trying to think of a relevant recent example, but somehow it eludes me :stupido2:). If the North Korean people are going to change their destiny, it is up to them. If they choose to make that sacrifice, they will value the result more and maybe it will last. I would hope (without much faith) that if such a revolution happens, it will not involve death and destruction in South Korea at the same time.

If I have a wish however, it would be that there is a peaceful transition through a new and quietly enlightened leader supported by a wise Western policy. There is recent precedent for that, too.

[Meneldil]

I think successive north korean leaders trully did a good job at making Orwell's 1984 come true.

I also watched some documentaries about this country. It's so crazy it's unbelievable. Some of what I heard might have been propaganda, because I can't see anything like that happening in the real world.

Among other things, working camps (nothing short of death camps actually), starvation, human flesh sold on markets, the army selling humanitarian food to civilians rather than giving it away, and the most disturbing, this huge Champs-Elysee-like street in Pyongyang, with like, 2 cars on it.

And I'm pretty sure North Koreans think they live in some sort of socialist heaven and that the outside world is filled with baby-eating barbarians fighting eachothers. Trully 1984-ish.

[Vladimir]

Wishing for war:

I’m thinking of Banquo’s comments opposing armed intervention in North Korea and comparing them to those who advocated liberation or destruction of the Nazi death camps. Many prominent individuals went so far as to advocate bombing the camps to kill the inhabitants to end their suffering.

In a war, millions of Koreans may die. Currently, in peace, millions of Koreans are dieing. The fundamental difference being that as a result of a war, the suffering will eventually end. Currently in peace, there is no end in sight.

Who has the crueler intentions: Those who work to end the suffering or those who allow it to continue? Those who favor the status quo can cover the suffering with hope and sense of moral righteousness.

Of course, like most situations, the answer lies somewhere in between. However it lies much further to the right.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

In a war, millions of Koreans may die. Currently, in peace, millions of Koreans are dieing. The fundamental difference being that as a result of a war, the suffering will eventually end. Currently in peace, there is no end in sight.

On the other hand, if DPRK manages to win, they get to spread their successful strategies throughout the whole of the Peninsula.

[Tribesman]

In a war, millions of Koreans may die. Currently, in peace, millions of Koreans are dieing. The fundamental difference being that as a result of a war, the suffering will eventually end. Currently in peace, there is no end in sight.

Slight problem there , currently North and South Korea are still at war so what is this peace you talk of ?
Nowadays of course its a very quiet war , no big battles and such , thats because when they was having a very loud war it wasn't achieving much .
So perhaps those who think going back to a loud war to solve the problems is a good idea can answer a little question ....how can you completely defeat the North Koreans without sparking Chinese intervention ?

[spmetla]

A war would kill the South Korean economy. Even if the South Koreans won without much damage to themselves (very very very unlikely), they'd have to deal with a flood of refugees from the North, feeding essentially a doubled population as well rebuilding and in a lot of case just plain building infrastructure. Just think of some of the problems of German reunification and make it 10 times worse.

The threat of the PRC's entry is also too big a factor to ignore. Though China might find it prudent to let North Korea finally disappear there are undoubtedly some old guard hardliners that would push for Chinese intervention.

[Kralizec]

We should immediately start an airlift to bring food, medicines and other supplies to South Korea. We cannot allow those commies to isolate their neighbours and abandon them to starvation like this :no:

[Vladimir]

On the other hand, if DPRK manages to win, they get to spread their successful strategies throughout the whole of the Peninsula.

Win? Sometimes it's hard to say if one side has won a war. Quite often there is only the worst looser. I really don't think they'll win if they invade, but it will be hell in the meantime.

South Korea would recover in time. Remember the longer the north stays the way it is, the harder the recovery. Currently no one is giving Korea the attention needed for a peaceful unification; it's very sad. Only something incredibly stupid like an invasion of the south may cause China to abandon support for their puppets.