why did this happen?

[ludwag]

how did they get gold ranks? I can not be their temple, becouse I had just sacked that city and destroyed all the buildings. Thats how they spawned :dizzy2:
https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2231/wtfwv1.jpg

[Foot]

when rebel units spawn they are given upgrades automatically. Thats how that happened.

Foot

[Aemilius Paulus]

https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2231/wtfwv1.jpg

Holy Crap! Have fun destroying that force!!!

EDIT: Who are you playing as?

[bovi]

It's easy. They've got lousy lethality.

[Aemilius Paulus]

It's easy. They've got lousy lethality.

I don't know. If the freed Slaves truly have two gold chevrons, as it seems to me, than they are going to be some pain, especially with those AP rocks that they throw. The base attack may be low, but with the upgrades... I've heard people saying that one gold chevron Apeleutheroi are pretty devastating, but the worst I've fought were one silver chevron slaves, which I easily slaughtered with unupgraded Akontistai & Pantodapoi. Who knows? However you're right in some degree as 0.06 lethality is pretty bad.

[Cbvani]

I don't know. If the freed Slaves truly have two gold chevrons, as it seems to me, than they are going to be some pain, especially with those AP rocks that they throw. The base attack may be low, but with the upgrades... I've heard people saying that one gold chevron Apeleutheroi are pretty devastating, but the worst I've fought were one silver chevron slaves, which I easily slaughtered with unupgraded Akontistai & Pantodapoi. Who knows? However you're right in some degree as 0.06 lethality is pretty bad.

Their lethality is laughable. Just about any dedicated infantry can do it, and they are extremely weak against arrows. I like fighting slaves because they are easy experience.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Their lethality is laughable. Just about any dedicated infantry can do it, and they are extremely weak against arrows. I like fighting slaves because they are easy experience.

Is it? All right, I'll take your word for it. However, have you ever fought 2 gold chevron Apeleutheroi? I myself never did but I remember reading in some AAR that fighting 2 gold chevron Freed Slaves was pretty difficult. But who knows, maybe that person was wrong.

[MerlinusCDXX]

Heh, those guys are what horse archers and heavy cavalry are for. They tend to rout at about 20% casualties, if you get them down quick. That's why I like charging them with Heavy cav. (one charge usually insta-routs them.) or playing "horse archer ping-pong" with them (good horse archers will annihilate them very quickly, mediocre horse archers will insta-rout them).

If you get rid of them with HAs or HC, you still have time to use those HAs or HC to fight their real units.

[ludwag]

when rebel units spawn they are given upgrades automatically. Thats how that happened.

Foot
I have seen rebels spawn many times. But why did these get gold chevrons?

[Aemilius Paulus]

Heh, those guys are what horse archers and heavy cavalry are for. They tend to rout at about 20% casualties, if you get them down quick. That's why I like charging them with Heavy cav. (one charge usually insta-routs them.) or playing "horse archer ping-pong" with them (good horse archers will annihilate them very quickly, mediocre horse archers will insta-rout them).

If you get rid of them with HAs or HC, you still have time to use those HAs or HC to fight their real units.

Yeah you are right. I remember having fun with the Apeleutheroi and my heavy cavalry. Then again, I can win just about any battle against an all non-spear armed infantry army with no more than 1:4 balance of power and an all-cavalry army. But I was asking if anyone knows how well an average infantry unit with 10-12 sword attack (or 13-15 spear attack) and 20-25 defence would do against 2 gold chevron Freed Slaves. Does anyone know?

[Foot]

I have seen rebels spawn many times. But why did these get gold chevrons?

Its random.

Foot

[Aemilius Paulus]

I have seen rebels spawn many times. But why did these get gold chevrons?

Because it is 1: random scripting and/or 2: look at the governor's building and the regional MIC. They all give experience bonus to Apeleutheroi. That was made to encourage the AI to build regional MICs even when it does not enable any new units.

EDIT: Wait, is it really all random as Foot says? I though the city size and MIC level had some influence.

[duncan.gill]

I have fought an army of similar composition in Arabia - they are absolutely devastating. I would strongly suggest NOT sending heavy infantry against them as you will be chopped to bits in melee. Using missle units or phalanxes is the only way to go as they stop them from being able to get in close.

[Aemilius Paulus]

I have fought an army of similar composition in Arabia - they are absolutely devastating. I would strongly suggest NOT sending heavy infantry against them as you will be chopped to bits in melee. Using missle units or phalanxes is the only way to go as they stop them from being able to get in close.

Thanks! That's just what I wanted to know!

[Celtic_Punk]

like I stated somewhere before in another thread. No problem for my Spartan Field army. Though I've used these slaves in defence of a newly rebelled citystate before. They are good for plugging the hole in the wall till you can get some better men down there. Quite frankly the best strategy to use them in that kind of situation is holding the enemy inside the walls, then moving your slingers along the walls to decimate the enemy from behind. If you hit your own troops, its in the face, therefore less deaths, and the ones that die, who cares?

[Intranetusa]

Hmmm, does anyone have a link to the unit cards?

I want to check out the recruitment cost/upkeep/unit stats of these slaves.
I have several regional MICs in my campaign with the ability to train slaves, but I have no idea if they would make a decent militia garrison or not.

[Hax]

EDIT: Who are you playing as?

Kart-Hadast.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Hmmm, does anyone have a link to the unit cards?

I want to check out the recruitment cost/upkeep/unit stats of these slaves.
I have several regional MICs in my campaign with the ability to train slaves, but I have no idea if they would make a decent militia garrison or not.
I don't think there has been an update of the unit cards since the slave unit was added.

Even though the slave unit appears in your MICs, government buildings, etc. they aren't actually available for recruitment. Their sole purpose is to lessen the chance of crashes.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Hmmm, does anyone have a link to the unit cards?

I want to check out the recruitment cost/upkeep/unit stats of these slaves.


The Unit Compare and the EB Unit Cards are all outdated, since they are a relic of EB v0.8. Use EDU instead. (export_desc_units that's in the EB Data folder) That's the only place where you will find accurate stats, although it is not as user-friendly and visually/aesthetically appealing as Unit Cards/Unit Compare.

[Intranetusa]

Darn...but the unit cards were soo cool too. >_<

[The_Brittunculi]

Freed slaves are the #1 funnest unit to kill in the game IMO. They rout so easily and can't hurt a fly - a unit of some chariots could rout and destroy a unit of gold chevron freed slaves in VH difficulty, at least in my experience.

Have fun killing them all.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Darn...but the unit cards were soo cool too. >_<

Yeah, they were. I was thinking on working on them myself at certain times. If I or someone else could get hold of Arkatreides (the creator of the unit cards; his profile can be found here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=2091) and ask him to post his Unit Cards in their original editable state (with the template), then I could probably finish them. Funny how pretty much the only thing he is lacking on those Unit Cards are like half of the Romani units (~:eek::skull::sad3:!!!). Those will definitely have to be completed. I could edit the stats on those cards without the template, but that will be slightly more messy and definitely more time-consuming. I also wanted to improve on those cards as well, which would be very difficult without the template, an needlessly so.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Freed slaves are the #1 funnest unit to kill in the game IMO. They rout so easily and can't hurt a fly

Yeah, but have you fought the two gold-chevron Apeleutheroi? There is a big difference, or at least in my opinion. Although their melee lethality is low, think of those AP rocks they throw. With two gold chevrons, those rocks can have an AP attack of as high as 9 (with two gold chevrons), and with a high ammo (for a missile thrown before charge) of 8. That AP attack, btw is going to take off 50% of your unit's armour. Think sligers and then about three/four times worse.

[bovi]

I have fought an army of similar composition in Arabia - they are absolutely devastating. I would strongly suggest NOT sending heavy infantry against them as you will be chopped to bits in melee. Using missle units or phalanxes is the only way to go as they stop them from being able to get in close.
Perhaps you fought them in 1.0 before their nerfing. They were given a 0.9 lethality by mistake, probably intended value was 0.09 (an increase from their initial 0.04).


Yeah, but have you fought the two gold-chevron Apeleutheroi? There is a big difference, or at least in my opinion. Although their melee lethality is low, think of those AP rocks they throw. With two gold chevrons, those rocks can have an AP attack of as high as 9 (with two gold chevrons), and with a high ammo (for a missile thrown before charge) of 8. That AP attack, btw is going to take off 50% of your unit's armour. Think sligers and then about three/four times worse.
Actually my testing of slingers show that unit experience does not make any significant difference to missiles. By giving them 3 levels of weapon upgrades they became utterly devastating (about 60% more kills), but 9 levels of experience didn't make any perceivable difference to a non-experienced unit, at best it was a 4% increase in kills.

[^RaGe^]

...
I've fought quite a few apaleutheroi with gold chevrons and they fall like flies. Even light cavarly can beat them.

[IrishHitman]

I don't know. If the freed Slaves truly have two gold chevrons, as it seems to me, than they are going to be some pain, especially with those AP rocks that they throw. The base attack may be low, but with the upgrades... I've heard people saying that one gold chevron Apeleutheroi are pretty devastating, but the worst I've fought were one silver chevron slaves, which I easily slaughtered with unupgraded Akontistai & Pantodapoi. Who knows? However you're right in some degree as 0.06 lethality is pretty bad.

Roll them with Cav....

[Aemilius Paulus]

Yeah, they were. I was thinking on working on them myself at certain times. If I or someone else could get hold of Arkatreides (the creator of the unit cards; his profile can be found here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=2091) and ask him to post his Unit Cards in their original editable state (with the template), then I could probably finish them. Funny how pretty much the only thing he is lacking on those Unit Cards are like half of the Romani units (~:eek::skull::sad3:!!!). Those will definitely have to be completed. I could edit the stats on those cards without the template, but that will be slightly more messy and definitely more time-consuming. I also wanted to improve on those cards as well, which would be very difficult without the template, an needlessly so.

What do you guys think of this?

[Celtic_Punk]

You guys are forgetting unit sizes play a huge role in all this. cavalry can be butchered by skirmish units on huge unitsizes because they get bogged down and totally outnumbered. this is the slaves' only advantage... 200 men vs 100 cavalry? 2-1 = ouch time.

think of agincourt only instead of mud, slaves.

[IrishHitman]

You guys are forgetting unit sizes play a huge role in all this. cavalry can be butchered by skirmish units on huge unitsizes because they get bogged down and totally outnumbered. this is the slaves' only advantage... 200 men vs 100 cavalry? 2-1 = ouch time.

think of agincourt only instead of mud, slaves.

Use Norman battle pulses and wide formations.
Charge, small melee, retreat, repeat.

You'll have the poor bastards running in no time from casualties and morale.

[bovi]

Apeleutheroi have a high penalty to combat against cavalry. Just mow them down.

[Intranetusa]

Using cavalry in cities is almost worthless when you play on huge. The cavalry can't get through the streets half the time, and their charge never seems to work properly due to their large numbers and the confined space.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Using cavalry in cities is almost worthless when you play on huge. The cavalry can't get through the streets half the time, and their charge never seems to work properly due to their large numbers and the confined space.

I play on large unit scale and my cavalry can't charge inside a settlement either, since they keep reforming on the streets, even though the streets are often times sufficiently wide enough (like in barbarian settlements and in Large/Huge Cities). No problems with navigation and pathfinding though.

[Celtic_Punk]

mmm especially if you set em up just right, and get your cavalry to drop their spears on time ect.