BNP Membership List Leaked [Archive]

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Papewaio

11-20-2008, 03:55

Heat rises over UK's web map of fascists (http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/web/heat-rises-over-uks-web-map-of-bnp-members/2008/11/20/1226770602625.html)

Right-wing extremists across Britain are bracing for violent repercussions after the British National Party's entire membership list was leaked on the internet.

And tech-savvy web users plotted members' addresses in red on a Google Map.

BNP leader Nick Griffin says the leak was an act of treachery by a disgruntled former BNP official, who may face jail time.

Ironically, the BNP is relying on Britain's Human Rights Act, which it opposes, to protect the privacy of its members.

The list, which is freely available on BitTorrent sites such as thepiratebay.org despite a court injunction, includes names, phone numbers, ages and home and email addresses of more than 10,000 BNP members, including children.

And the police response:

UK police forces and the prison service are scouring the list for serving officers, vowing to sack any they find, the Guardian reported.

LOL

So do fascist deserve privacy?

Lord Winter

11-20-2008, 03:59

As much as I love the idea of Karma I think it may end up turning into a inquestion instead. Afterall there is such a thing as due process rights for everyone, and as long as they havn't commit any major crimes or aren't bigoted racist I don't think they should lose there Jobs or whatever.

Evil_Maniac From Mars

11-20-2008, 04:05

Politics are totally irrelevant to the jobs these individuals hold. I don't like the BNP, but as a legitimate political party, they have the same rights as every other party - and members of the BNP certainly have a right to privacy, unless their privacy is somehow forfeited after due process of the law.

At the same time, however...

https://img140.imageshack.us/img140/650/lolgriffin9ar0.jpg

https://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2586/610xuq2.jpg

https://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9498/griffin5uh0.jpg

https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1996/griffin7qr1.jpg

Tribesman

11-20-2008, 05:03

This is funny , the list is published on the web by some BNP people who objected to Griffin not getting rid of the BNP people who had posted a list of anti-BNP people and their names and addresses on the web .

naut

11-20-2008, 07:46

Oh crap there's so many BNP members near where I used to live.... :no:

Fragony

11-20-2008, 09:20

So do fascist deserve privacy?

Of course they do.

Police response isn't funny it's scary. 1984 just called you forgot your lunch.

JR-

11-20-2008, 10:38

Oh crap there's so many BNP members near where I used to live.... :no:
haha, there are 10 in a town of no more than a 1000 near my parents.

Fragony

11-20-2008, 10:53

naut

11-20-2008, 11:37

To arms, and doubt shall have no dominion, believing is not enough you must know that there is only one culture and it's multi, the snobby elite from 100% white neighbourhoods demands it.
Funny that the majority of the BNP members come from "snobby elite [...] 100% white neighbourhoods". :book2:

Although they deserve privacy, policemen and certain elements of the civil service shouldn't be allowed to be BNP members, so I'm fine with policemen, etc on said list being sacked.

Yeah, Furunculu5, scary stuff thinking that people you may have known or met were/are secretly BNP members, there are 22 near the school I went to. ~:eek:

Scurvy

11-20-2008, 11:54

Ronin

11-20-2008, 11:59

it´s the great fascist hunt of 08!!! :2thumbsup::laugh4:

naut

11-20-2008, 12:23

I don't see why BNP members shouldnt be in the police force, or any other occupation, as long as they make sure it doesnt interfere with their job (they don't discriminate etc.)

everyone should be able to support + affiliate with a (legal) policitical party if they choose to, and do so in privacy if they want (I mean, should we ban police officers from voting for the BNP?)
I also have no problem with them voting for who ever they want. However, the problem with letting them join a secret political party is two fold, since firstly it may comeback to bite the government or police force in the :daisy: due to bad press and secondly most people can't separate their political feelings from their professional life, myself included. If they are a member of the BNP and either the police force or civil service they should have to make it known to their employers first, since it can directly influence their work ethic/attitude, etc.

Edit: Any other job, they can keep it hush-hush if they want.

JR-

11-20-2008, 12:24

Funny that the majority of the BNP members come from "snobby elite [...] 100% white neighbourhoods". :book2:

i would say that is a very inaccurate characterisation of typical BNP membership.

JR-

11-20-2008, 12:26

I also have no problem with them voting for who ever they want. However, the problem with letting them join a secret political party is two fold,
do labour/cons openly publish membership lists?

InsaneApache

11-20-2008, 12:27

Perhaps the government could root out all the members of the Labour Party working in local and national government. Then they could sack them for belonging to a legitimate political party.

It reminds me of the 'poison dwarf' Blears carping on t'other week about political bloggers. The one in which she effectively said that freedom of speech is essential but only as long as you agree with me!

If you are to live in a liberal democracy then, no matter how appalling you see others views, legitimate political parties should all be treated equally.

naut

11-20-2008, 12:32

do labour/cons openly publish membership lists?
Maybe they should? I mean if your a enough of an political advocate to bother joining a party what's with all the hush-hush, "no I didn't, I'm not part of it... honest", business?

Perhaps the government could root out all the members of the Labour Party working in local and national government. Then they could sack them for belonging to a legitimate political party.
That doesn't sound like a half bad idea. Then we can sack all the Tories next and start all over again. :wink2:

Edit:
i would say that is a very inaccurate characterisation of typical BNP membership.
Woops. Sorry, I was just making a guess off what they stand for and the areas I looked on BNPnearme.com. I should probably pay more attention to UK politics, be voting in, um, er, something...?

Fragony

11-20-2008, 12:50

Funny that the majority of the BNP members come from "snobby elite [...] 100% white neighbourhoods". :book2:

Ya. But of course.

Scurvy

11-20-2008, 13:55

Maybe they should? I mean if your a enough of an political advocate to bother joining a party what's with all the hush-hush, "no I didn't, I'm not part of it... honest", business?

I think in the case of parties like the BNP people feel they might be assaulted/endangered if it become public, although it does seem odd, especially as actually doing something for the party (as opposed to turning up for the free drinks) would involve disclosing your name/allegience anyway (by either actively campaigning, or declaring financial gifts)

:2thumbsup:

HoreTore

11-20-2008, 14:39

This tickles me in that special way :smash:

All political party lists should be open to the public. I see that as just as important as being able to vote in secret. Don't got the balls to stand for your beliefs? Boo-hoo, go wet your pants, sissy. Secrecy in politics is a big no-no.

To arms, and doubt shall have no dominion, believing is not enough you must know that there is only one culture and it's multi, the snobby elite from 100% white neighbourhoods demands it. When things have changed for the worse the politicians allowing it will have other jobs.

Oh give it a rest, Frags. It's getting boring.

Tribesman

11-20-2008, 14:54

do labour/cons openly publish membership lists?
In a way yes . Parties have to submit membership lists to the electoral commision , the electoral commision has that freedom of info thing so you can ask for its lists , and since that info would be in the public domain anyone could publish it .
Since groups like the anti-nazi league already publish the lists of BNP members and list all their upcoming events what is Griffin moaning about this time ?
Oh I get it he is moaning because the people who did it this time left his fan club and are now race traitors :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
BNP what a bunch of idiots .

LittleGrizzly

11-20-2008, 15:42

How is this any better than the Mccarthy witchhunts ?

I guess the one thing you can say for it is the american communist party (either party or just american communists) is it wasn't specifically racist

I would rather those that are now known to be bnp members get tested on whether thier racist beliefs affect thier policing (tested by undercover officers / hidden camera's)

Though on the other hand any racism in the police force spells big trouble, and the documentary i watched a few years back (some journalist posed as a potential policeman and went to the training centre) contained some bnp members with very racist views, one even put a pillow cover over his head (white kkk style) and acted out stabbing muslims...

So maybe it is best to assume that bnp voters are racist, rather than give them the benefit of the doubt that they may just be idiots

Considering the problems that a racist police force can lead to im starting to come around to the idea that they should be kicked out of the police force, better to have some idiots out of the police force than have minoritys picked on by racists in authority...

Out of interest though... by extension would it be ok to....

Kick members of a cannabis legalisation political party out of the police force ?

rory_20_uk

11-20-2008, 16:03

What one thinks or believes in shouldn't be, no - isn't a crime.

~:smoking:

naut

11-20-2008, 16:15

What one thinks or believes in shouldn't be, no - isn't a crime.
I'll play devils advocate here. What if I hypothetically decided to become a member of the KKK and claimed that all blacks and Jews were sub-human? Is my belief a crime or is the action of propagating that belief a crime?

My humble opinion, privately believing whatever you like is fine. But, when you start propagating such beliefs, that is when it crosses the line.

Tribesman

11-20-2008, 16:29

How is this any better than the Mccarthy witchhunts ?
How is it anything like the witchhunts ?
This is just the very regular repeat of British racists forming a political party , having an arguement amongst themselves and then turning on each other .

What one thinks or believes in shouldn't be, no - isn't a crime.

Who said it was a crime ?
However certain public jobs should not be held by people whose views are likely to colour their approach to members of the public who they are supposed to serve without prejudice .
Now I suppose some might argue that the BNP doesn't belong on the list of racist groups which the police/prison service don't like , perhaps they might say that the BPP NF NNF BM B&H and C18 are different from the BNP . But when the BNP has at its core the idea that everything is the fault of them bloody foriegners it does seem to fit on the list of racist gobshites doesn't it , and when you add that all the groups have the same origins and at various times the same membership/leadership it fits right on the list .

LittleGrizzly

11-20-2008, 16:42

How is it anything like the witchhunts ?

Well i was more reffering to the removal of people from thier jobs due to thier political persuasion...

I did convince myself further on in my post that it was acceptable.. i don't think the individuals should be punished further than losing thier public jobs, they should be allowed to work in the private sector, though they may have trouble getting work there if an interviewer realises why they left thier last job or just recognises the name...

rory_20_uk

11-20-2008, 17:17

So, people are allowed to be anti-abortion and alter their working practice to conform to this, yet to think something means they shouldn't have a job?

You are also managing to jump to the assumption that all are dyed in teh wool racists and should be treated as such. No trial or jury - just punishment.

~:smoking:

LittleGrizzly

11-20-2008, 17:33

I see this as a choice between two evils

evil number 1, we remove people from public service because of thier political views

evil number 2, we allow bnp members to remain in the police force and potentially have hundreds of individual cases of non whites being unfairy prosecuted and more harshly prosecuted by a force that is supposed to treat them eqaully regardless of colour

and i am of the opinion that evil number 2 is the worse evil, these people can get other jobs, but a non white resident of the uk doesn't have a choice but to deal with a racist police officer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Damilola_Taylor

extract

6) During the post mortem of the victim vital evidence emerged that was withheld from the media in order to test the accuracy of stories told by witnesses. The statement of a key witness was subsequently made invalid when evidence was leaked and reported to the media before it could be heard in court. A subsequent police report was unable to reject the possibility that the story was leaked by a member of the police force

If just one member of the police force can wreck an investigation into the murder of a minority anonymously, then imagine what a few hundred racists in the police force could do...

rory_20_uk

11-20-2008, 17:40

Evil 2 is illegal.

Since we're stopping people based on other areas. I propose the following:

All Christians - especially Catholics are removed from working an Obstetrics or Gynacology lest they allow their views to interfere with their work
All religious police workers, doctors and public lawyers be sacked in case they bias against agnostics / atheists.
All atheist police workers, doctors and public lawyers be sacked in case they bias against religious people.
I'm sure there are others with views we should sack:

Ah

All conservatives should be sacked from government jobs as they believe in small governments and also we have a labour government so are possibly trying to undermine the country.

Surely there are others who obviously should be sacked in case of a theoretically possible greater evil...

~:smoking:

InsaneApache

11-20-2008, 17:55

Wow, I'm gobsmacked.

Some of the lefty-liberals on here seem to be showing their true colours. Sack the bastards because they espouse an ideology different to mine. Talk about doing the fascists job for them. You should hang your heads in shame.

Until the BNP becomes a proscribed political organisation then their members should be allowed to get on with their lives without fear of sackings or other discaplinary proceedures.

As for the nonsense comment about BNP police officers prosecuting blacks....where the hell did you get the idea that the police prosecute anyone? Ever heard of the CPS?

I'll tell you a little story.

When I was an LGO I often had to implement policy that I fundamentally disagreed with. Why did I implement it? First off, it was my job. Secondly, the orders were delivered down from upon high by the democratically elected council. The clue here is democratically elected. I have more respect for democracy than to work to undermine it. After all, next time it might be 'my lot' that get in next time.

I suggest some of you liberals look to yourselves. Outrageous. :shame:

LittleGrizzly

11-20-2008, 18:17

Evil 2 is illegal.

yes it is, i fail to see why that would stop racist police officers, we have all kinds of racist things go on which are illegal...

All Christians - especially Catholics are removed from working an Obstetrics or Gynacology lest they allow their views to interfere with their work

I fail to see how a christian gynacologist would have thier work affected... if it was as simple as they refuse to serve women who have sex before marriage then they probably deserve the boot (depending how complicated it would be to work around this view)

If on the other hand the christian gynacologist was part of a group that chants death to sluts and would then not work to the same standard (or sabotage) thier work because it was a woman who had sex before marriage then sure give them the boot!

All religious police workers, doctors and public lawyers be sacked in case they bias against agnostics / atheists.
All atheist police workers, doctors and public lawyers be sacked in case they bias against religious people.

If they were part of groups that wants death to all christians or death to all non christians and hates the christians or non christians then yeah we probably should sack them... if however they don't hate the other group and aren't part of a group that wants death to the group they dislike then the example is completely different...

Sack the bastards because they espouse an ideology different to mine.

Incorrect, otherwise we would be calling for UKIP members to be fired as well, UKIP is a political party with strong anti immigration views... BNP is a political party that is racist, racists cannot be trusted in positions where they can negatively influence minoritys because of thier twisted views

As for the nonsense comment about BNP police officers prosecuting blacks....where the hell did you get the idea that the police prosecute anyone? Ever heard of the CPS?

I have been given cautions by police officers, my friends have recieved fines from police officers, if a police officer wanted to make any minority citizens life a misery there are 101 ways he can do it...

Also they can sabotage investigations (see extract from link earlier with y little piece)

When I was an LGO I often had to implement policy that I fundamentally disagreed with. Why did I implement it? First off, it was my job. Secondly, the orders were delivered down from upon high by the democratically elected council. The clue here is democratically elected.

Im struggling to see a point or a connection to what we are discussing ?

No one is talking about removing BNP councillours or mp's.... ?

After all, next time it might be 'my lot' that get in next time.

:rolleyes:

JR-

11-20-2008, 18:21

I see this as a choice between two evils

evil number 1, we remove people from public service because of thier political views

evil number 2, we allow bnp members to remain in the police force and potentially have hundreds of individual cases of non whites being unfairy prosecuted and more harshly prosecuted by a force that is supposed to treat them eqaully regardless of colour

and i am of the opinion that evil number 2 is the worse evil, these people can get other jobs, but a non white resident of the uk doesn't have a choice but to deal with a racist police officer

it is already totally unpermissable for a police officer to act in way other than professianally with due reference to the laws of the land and their code of conduct.

what does banning all BNP members add, against what it subtracts, i.e. discrimation for membership of a legal British political party?

agreed with Rory and IA

Tribesman

11-20-2008, 18:22

You are also managing to jump to the assumption that all are dyed in teh wool racists
Good point , perhaps they joined a group that is racist because they are not racists .:idea2:
So lets see how do you join such a party ?
Do you go to their website and read their policies of foriegners foriegners foriegners foriegners and decide to fill out the form to join ? maybe you go to one of their meetings and hear them talk about foriegners foriegners foriegners foriegners and join up there , hey maybe some could even go to Griffins red white and blue festival of patriotism and after hearing all the speeches about the white race and watching the headline band singing Combat 18 is calling you you might decide to sign up there as it don't seem much like the party consists of a bunch of racist nutjobs does it and anyone would be glad to join such a nice group .

LittleGrizzly

11-20-2008, 18:42

it is already totally unpermissable for a police officer to act in way other than professianally with due reference to the laws of the land and their code of conduct.

people don't follow rules when it doesn't suit them, i can't believe this point is even an argument ?

Its completely illegal for me to buy and smoke weed... yet i do daily, so maybe we should be on the look out for rule breakers ?

police have alot of personal say in who gets charged with what, i now from personal experience from 3 times police caught me with weed

1. given a caution

2. fingerprinted and photographed and a caution

3. nothing, even kept the weed

so we now know that coppers don't follow the rules always, and that thier personal say can make a huge difference to the outcome of a situation, im just very lucky im not a minority and the officer that caught me wasn't bnp...

also its not complete fantasy to suggest police would plant evidence and lie, especially if they hate the people thier setting up as much as the BNP do, hell if i though minoritys were the downfall of society and i was a police officer i probably would be harsher on them...

Fragony

11-20-2008, 18:44

Oh give it a rest, Frags. It's getting boring.

As relevant as ever, especially now that the multicult has spread out and is starting to effect vital organs such as the police, so it has come to that ideological cleaning in the land of fear and desire.

JR-

11-20-2008, 18:47

LittleGrizzly

11-20-2008, 18:57

rory gave you lots of good examples of where an obsession with attempting to legislate away 'evil' will get you. it doesn't work and it isn't the answer.

and i clearly showed they were false examples!

as stated... if an atheist was part of a christian hating group which had leaders chanting kills the christians and i wouldn't want these guys in any kind of power either

basically if you are part of an organisation that actively discriminates against and has leaders that call for the death of any groups of people they cannot be allowed to potenially be in a position of power over that group...

How would you like it if you were being attacking by a white hating muslim and hook (forgotten his name) came along as the police officer to settle the dispute, you would have no problem with this i assume ? as of course the man is perfectly entitled to his political views, who are we to deny him a job as a police officer simply because he would give preferenntail treatment to certain groups ?

Or are we only allowed officers that discriminate in favour of whites ?

especially now that the multicult has spread out and is starting to effect vital organs such as the police

It seems multicult means removing racists from power ?

in that case then yes mutlicult will march on and leave no hiding place for those who would try to use thier powerful positions to negatively affect minoritys, racists have had thier day where they could discriminate freely now they shall be removed from any position with power, anyone who actively hates and calls for the deaths of minoritys in the uk doesn't deserve to be even near any real power, let alone walking the street with a badge using the powers we the people have invested in him to further his own heinous minority hating agenda

rory_20_uk

11-20-2008, 19:01

Good point , perhaps they joined a group that is racist because they are not racists .:idea2:
So lets see how do you join such a party ?
Do you go to their website and read their policies of foriegners foriegners foriegners foriegners and decide to fill out the form to join ? maybe you go to one of their meetings and hear them talk about foriegners foriegners foriegners foriegners and join up there , hey maybe some could even go to Griffins red white and blue festival of patriotism and after hearing all the speeches about the white race and watching the headline band singing Combat 18 is calling you you might decide to sign up there as it don't seem much like the party consists of a bunch of racist nutjobs does it and anyone would be glad to join such a nice group .

You are a clever person. Perhaps you don't meet the lazy, ignorant morons that is called the general public.

More likely they're pissed off about having to work and someone gives you the sop that it's someone else's fault.
Others are not keen on immigration - some are second generation immigrants themselves.
You have a friend or friends who are members

Odd that if you slash tyres / attack people / break the law we hear rehabilitation / society's fault. Get on a list on the internet? You're fired, scum.

~:smoking:

Thermal

11-20-2008, 19:06

rory_20_uk

11-20-2008, 19:13

How would you like it if you were being attacking by a white hating muslim and hook (forgotten his name) came along as the police officer to settle the dispute, you would have no problem with this i assume ? as of course the man is perfectly entitled to his political views, who are we to deny him a job as a police officer simply because he would give preferenntail treatment to certain groups?

I assume you've managed to ignore the point that he's breaking several laws.

His beliefs aren't important - his actions are.
If hook acted in an appropriate manner then fine I don't care what he might think deep down.

As InsaneApache stated, you do your job. If you don't do that then you get sacked.

You appear to be acting in pre-emptive "self defence" - as the police can't be trusted, rather than address this sack all of them that are viewed as bieng unsuitable which basically means being on the BNP list of names which is of course far more exhaustive a check than a CRB or the independent complaints board....

I assume you think I should be sacked as a Doctor based on many of my views I've shared here? I bet if we met at work you'd have no idea as that's my job and I express the views I'm paid to.

~:smoking:

Fragony

11-20-2008, 19:19

body language is such a brilliant thing, you no the biggest sign of lieing is when you put your finger under your nose and i see politicians do it ALL the time, there all nitwits, and i think BNP is probably the best party if any because at least they propose to help are country and keep it united, no matter how controversial they are

Well they are scum, but the english police shows that a certain englishman was correct when he said the fascists of the future will call themselves anti-fascists

It seems multicult means removing racists from power ?

No such thing as law anymore, no parlement, no opposition, no constitution if the BNP is elected they are bound by the same rules they wouldn't be 'in power'. But that will never happen, but a vote for the BNP might shift the middle somewhat more to the right that is why I would vote for them if I was english. Vote for Wilders for the same reason.

Rhyfelwyr

11-20-2008, 19:38

body language is such a brilliant thing, you no the biggest sign of lieing is when you put your finger under your nose and i see politicians do it ALL the time, there all nitwits, and i think BNP is probably the best party if any because at least they propose to help are country and keep it united, no matter how controversial they are

The BNP may have some moderate members who are little more than Tories with populist leanings, however the nutballs in that party need to be kept from office (by the voters, not a government persecuting them based on party-affiliation).

Still, disillusionment with the mainstream parties, who are if we are honest may as well be one near-right party, will only fuel support for groups such as the BNP.

However, so long as the BNP a political party, I do not see how citizens can be persecuted for associating with them. Once we go down that road, where do you draw the line?

Strike For The South

11-20-2008, 20:03

Those dissenters must be crushed!!!!!!! How dare they have an unpopular opinion! How ignorant! The country will be better when this lot is gone I'll tell you that much.

JAG

11-20-2008, 20:06

Being a member of the BNP should absolutely mean getting the sack from jobs such as teaching and policing.

Do we allow pedophiles to teach in schools? No.. So there is already discrimination and a vetting process to it.

Do we allow convicted murderers to join the police force? No.. So there is already discrimination and vetting.

The BNP is not a political party such as the Labour or Tory party because by its own declarations if gaining power it would dismantle the system in which political parties operate. Calling Fascists, who are members of a party which wants to be the head of a dictatorial Nazi style state, a political party like any other is not only disingenious but idiotic and moreover - ignorantly dangerous.

So having said this, these people do not deserve the same rights of privacy in terms of it being a political party. Just like I wouldn't think it appropriate for an Islamic extremist to teach in a school of impressionable minds and mixed races, I dont think it is approriate for a fascist.

Call me naive, but I simply do not believe that a member of the BNP would put the same kind of effort in trying to teach a child of an immigrant who might struggle with English, as a white working class kid from 'pure' stock. Nor do I believe they would put the same effort when being called to help an immigrant facing problems. Simple as that. And actually I think those who believe this to be wrong are the naive ones, not the other way around.

As InsaneApache stated, you do your job. If you don't do that then you get sacked.

Absolute nonesense. We do NOT use this approach in a whole manner of areas, Apart from the ones I have already outlined - pedophiles in schools and murderers in the police force - there are literally hundreds of other examples where a line is drawn, and if you are on the wrong side you can't be a member of that profession. The police force don't allow people with asthma to join for instance... You may say that being simply a member of the BNP is not the same as a pedophile or murderer, because they have actually done a horrendus act - but my friend, joining the BNP itself is such an act.

I believe in human rights and traditional individual liberty more than anyone I know, but this is false liberty and false rights. Complete rubbish.

Fragony

11-20-2008, 20:12

I get the feeling that I am breathing in a plastic sack

edit, ok so we have just established that the BNP is a criminal organisation, what are the charges, some lynching I missed? Could be as the happen so frequently can't have them all. But there really aren't any charges are there you just don't like the idea.

Strike For The South

11-20-2008, 20:12

Comparing the BNP to murders, pedophiles, and rapists?. I find it odd JAG that you would support this. I mean it not like all the racists bigots and sexists are part of the BNP or are they? You are denying people something because of there political leanings!

Rhyfelwyr

11-20-2008, 20:18

It's the old conundrum of tolerating the intolerant. If you tolerate them, they stomp all over you (or in this case just some folk they see as racially inferior) and will end tolerance of any form. But if you don't tolerate them, well then you're defeating your own purpose.

While a paedophile is beyond doubt a sexual offender, we cannot similarly label members of the BNP as racist, or perhaps more specifically lawbreakers, in that we would accuse them of breaking the laws of the land in order to pursue their own beliefs. If we prove this in individual cases, then obviously that individual must be disciplined. But until we can, any punishment would be unjustified and basically political persecution.

InsaneApache

11-20-2008, 20:20

drone

11-20-2008, 20:24

Do we allow pedophiles to teach in schools? No.. So there is already discrimination and a vetting process to it.

Do we allow convicted murderers to join the police force? No.. So there is already discrimination and vetting.

Pedos aren't allowed to teach, and murderers can't be on the police force due to their actions AND subsequent trials by the justice system. Thoughtcrime, for the win, I guess.

InsaneApache is right. Who let all this riff-raff into the room?

JAG

11-20-2008, 20:38

Try this then.

Do you think that racist politicians should be removed from office?

If you do, then perhaps we should start with one who was unelected by anybody and bangs on about 'Britishness' (whatever that is), not to mention repeatedly chanting the slogan 'British jobs for British workers'.

Tell me that's not racist, 'cos it is. :idea:

Not racist, you would have a slightly better argument if you said xenophobic, but then again we both know that is rubbish. Plus British jobs for British workers - though I disagree with the sentiment and the postering - coming from the British Prime Minister ... Is not a terrible thing, surely? You would prefere if he said British jobs for American workers? And trying to label Gordon Brown racist, is like trying to label Thatcher a socialist. Just absurd.

And for all of you stating how it is 'thought police', it CANNOT be 'thought police' when you are judging and taking action against someone because they have JOINED an organisation. They have actually acted upon their thoughts and I don't care if people don't think members of the BNP are not racist, because they are - to be quite frank, if you think otherwise you are deluded. It is a facist, Nazi worshipping, anti democracy organisation and I do not think fascists should be appeased.

Joining a political party is an action it is a choice, just like a pedophile molesting a child and a murderer killing someone, a choice. No difference. For that choice, that action, you get judged and it means that you are not allowed to follow certain career paths, simple as that. If you want to be a policeman, it is quite simple - don't join the BNP. They know the rules, they break them they deserve to be sacked.

Comparing the BNP to murders, pedophiles, and rapists?.

I wasn't. It was an indirect comparison, if you read what I said. The fact you posted this comment shows you didn't read what I said. :book:

I mean it not like all the racists bigots and sexists are part of the BNP or are they? You are denying people something because of there political leanings!

No not all racists, bigots and sexists are members of the BNP, but do we let convicted pedophiles teach in schools because we havent caught all the pedophiles in the UK? It doesn't matter that there are fascists who are not members of the BNP or any known organisation, it doesn't mean we should allow those we DO know are fascists teach in schools and police our nation.

Plus I am sick of people saying 'you are denying them because of their political opinions!!!!!', RUBBISH. THEY are denying themselves the opportunity to work in schools and police the streets becuase of their bigoted fascist views. I don't MAKE them become fascists, THEY make themselves become fascists and THEY should take responsibility for their actions, not me.

Strike For The South

11-20-2008, 20:43

Plus I am sick of people saying 'you are denying them because of their political opinions!!!!!', RUBBISH. THEY are denying themselves the opportunity to work in schools and police the streets becuase of their bigoted fascist views. I don't MAKE them become communists, THEY make themselves become Communists and THEY should take responsibility for their actions, not me.

agreed

atheotes

11-20-2008, 20:46

JAG

11-20-2008, 20:47

Yep, those terrible ideals of equality, social justice and respect for all humans could really harm children and poison their minds as well as lead to ignorant and terrible police officiers.

.

Strike For The South

11-20-2008, 20:49

Yep, those terrible ideals of equality, social justice and respect for all humans could really harm children and poison their minds as well as lead to ignorant and terrible police officiers.

.

A hatred for the upper class? A hatred for people who make more money? An entitlement mindset?

Yes and teaching children to be proud of Britain and being scared of what unregulated immigration can do is so much

Anything can be spun cowboy. Police officers make assumptions everytime you see some one

drone

11-20-2008, 20:51

Joining a political party is an action it is a choice, just like a pedophile molesting a child and a murderer killing someone, a choice. No difference.

But is joining a political party an illegal action?

For that choice, that action, you get judged and it means that you are not allowed to follow certain career paths, simple as that. If you want to be a policeman, it is quite simple - don't join the BNP. They know the rules, they break them they deserve to be sacked.
Will they get judged? Will each police officer whose name appears on this list be properly sent in front of a court and judged fairly, or will some administrator just can them?

JAG

11-20-2008, 20:56

Murderers and pedophiles have committed crimes... being a member of BNP is not a crime :juggle2:... therein lies the distinction... if you can get the government to outlaw BNP then membership of BNP is probably enough to sack someone from a job... otherwise it is not democratic... :shrug:

I do not condone racism... I too hate racists but unless they act it out they are not breaking the law and cannot be prosecuted for simply holding a belief.... no?

The fact it is not a crime - and it shouldn't be - does not mean that the views I have put across are not valid. Is not having a driving liscence a crime? ... No. But unless you have one you can't be a trucker. Is having shares in multiple big business' a crime? No... But if the President of the US or any other world leader did, they would not be able to keep their job. It is downright idiotic to think that being a member of the BNP is a special case, it is exactly the same. Being a member of the Labour party, I can't do any jobs in the Tory party, do I cry foul? No, I realise that my action of joining the labour party CLEARLY means that that avenue for me is closed, just like BNP members should realise that being a member of the BNP closes off avenues for them. If they make the choice, they face the consequences - if they don't liek the consequences DONT MAKE THE CHOICE. Simple as that, take some damn responsibility and stop hiding behind well intentioned, stupid people and liberties they don't even believe in and clearly don't understand.

JAG

11-20-2008, 20:58

A hatred for the upper class? A hatred for people who make more money? An entitlement mindset?

Yes and teaching children to be proud of Britain and being scared of what unregulated immigration can do is so much

Anything can be spun cowboy. Police officers make assumptions everytime you see some one

You don't know any communists / socialists do you and clearly don't know any BNP people.

~:rolleyes:

caravel

11-20-2008, 20:59

Fragony

11-20-2008, 20:59

Strike For The South

11-20-2008, 21:01

You don't know any communists / socialists do you and clearly don't know any BNP people.

~:rolleyes:

No more than you know all BNP members. I am merely inverting all your comments and you disregard me saying I don't know any or how they really act. Kind of telling really.

JAG

11-20-2008, 21:04

But is joining a political party an illegal action?

Will they get judged? Will each police officer whose name appears on this list be properly sent in front of a court and judged fairly, or will some administrator just can them?

I think I have answered your first point in soem of my responses.

As to your second point, the whole idea of not allowing racists and fascists in the police force over here came from an incident a few years back now, where a black man was killed and inquiries after pointed to the police force being 'institutionally racist'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Lawrence

Since then and a whole number of commitees and inquiries, etc etc, they came up with new rules for the police force and the banning of BNP members and other far right party members from being police officiers was just one of the steps taken.

By the way when you join the police force over here you HAVE to state and sign a document which states 'I am not a membver of the BNP (and other far right parties). The fact that this document is broken means there is complete vindication for sacking members anyway, as they lied about this.... If I sign a contract of employment then break it, do I not deserve the sack? ... Or are we now gonna get the right wingers on here arguing against me on the rights of employers over employees? ahha, that would be a sight.

JAG

11-20-2008, 21:07

No more than you know all BNP members. I am merely inverting all your comments and you disregard me saying I don't know any or how they really act. Kind of telling really.

Not really, what you said - go back and read it - was purely naive and I think if you had met -any- socialists you would understand it is not a hate for the rich but a lust for equality which shapes the ideals.

atheotes

11-20-2008, 21:11

The fact it is not a crime - and it shouldn't be - does not mean that the views I have put across are not valid. Is not having a driving liscence a crime? ... No. But unless you have one you can't be a trucker. Is having shares in multiple big business' a crime? No... But if the President of the US or any other world leader did, they would not be able to keep their job. It is downright idiotic to think that being a member of the BNP is a special case, it is exactly the same. Being a member of the Labour party, I can't do any jobs in the Tory party, do I cry foul? No, I realise that my action of joining the labour party CLEARLY means that that avenue for me is closed, just like BNP members should realise that being a member of the BNP closes off avenues for them. If they make the choice, they face the consequences - if they don't liek the consequences DONT MAKE THE CHOICE. Simple as that, take some damn responsibility and stop hiding behind well intentioned, stupid people and liberties they don't even believe in and clearly don't understand.

I am not saying your views are not valid... all i am saying is it is not democratic... :juggle2:

JAG

11-20-2008, 21:13

Freedom of speech is essential and the more the BNP are forced underground the worse they will get. Sacking those people will martyr them and gain more publicity and support for the BNP. Sacking them would also be a typically cynical move from such organisations as the police that simply want to be seen to be doing the right thing, while attepting to throw off the "institutionally racist" label.

I believe in freedom of speech, but sacking them in no way means there is less freedom of speech. I would like you to show me how it is. The point is, they can say what they want, do what they want - within the law - but they cannot be teachers or police officiers. To think that is freedom of speech bashing or lessoning free speech, to me is mind boggling.

This will not 'force' the BNP underground, plus if it did it wouldn't get worse.If you think there is so much sympathy for the BNP that they would gain support from the sacking of their members from the police force, you are completely wrong - the reason? It has happened before. Not a thing. What does gain them support is this attitude of people that it is alrdight to be a fascist, that they hold views which are acceptable. They don't.

Sacking them from their jobs wouldn't be a cynical move - lemme think, hmm, kicking a proven racist out of the police force, hmm terrible move? Cynical? Not words the mind first thinks of.

Fragony

11-20-2008, 21:13

By the way when you join the police force over here you HAVE to state and sign a document which states 'I am not a membver of the BNP (and other far right parties).

I don't believe it that has to be a joke. Is this really true?

drone

11-20-2008, 21:15

As to your second point, the whole idea of not allowing racists and fascists in the police force over here came from an incident a few years back now, where a black man was killed and inquiries after pointed to the police force being 'institutionally racist'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Lawrence

Since then and a whole number of commitees and inquiries, etc etc, they came up with new rules for the police force and the banning of BNP members and other far right party members from being police officiers was just one of the steps taken.

By the way when you join the police force over here you HAVE to state and sign a document which states 'I am not a membver of the BNP (and other far right parties). The fact that this document is broken means there is complete vindication for sacking members anyway, as they lied about this.... If I sign a contract of employment then break it, do I not deserve the sack? ... Or are we now gonna get the right wingers on here arguing against me on the rights of employers over employees? ahha, that would be a sight.

I'm aware of the Lawrence investigation, I was living in the UK when the inquiry was completed. But you don't need a pro-nazi political party to have an institutionally racist police force, we have plenty of them over here.

You still did not answer my question:

Will they get judged? Will each police officer whose name appears on this list be properly sent in front of a court and judged fairly, or will some administrator just can them?

InsaneApache

11-20-2008, 21:20

JAG

11-20-2008, 21:27

I don't believe it that has to be a joke. Is this really true?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/nov/20/racism-bnp-far-right

it is the prison service which makes all applicants sign a declaration. But the police force have it in their national constitution that you can't be a member.

The prison service specified the BNP, the National Front and Combat 18 as groups falling within this category. Applicants for positions in the prison service must sign a declaration confirming: "I am not a member of any of the groups or organisations listed, nor any other with racist philosophy."

Some organisations and firms have dismissed members on the basis of BNP membership. In a leading case, Serco, which supplies transport services to public bodies, was told by the court of appeal it was entitled to dismiss a bus driver after he was elected a BNP councillor. The court said the employee "was treated less favourably not on the ground that he was white, but because of a particular non-racial characteristic shared by him with a tiny proportion of the white population, that is membership of and standing for election for a party like the BNP".

Drone, I think this pretty much answers your question.

JAG

11-20-2008, 21:28

Here it is, in a nutshell. Give that man a cigar. :smoking:

hahah, I love how you ignore all my posts and the rebuttals. Nevermind.

drone

11-20-2008, 21:32

Drone, I think this pretty much answers your question.

Nope. Try again. I want your own words.

Thermal

11-20-2008, 21:37

heh i seen on tele they said 'vote for whoever you want longs its not the BNP)

but what else do you suggest when Labours most useful policy is free bus passes for the elderly in exchange for higher taxes for Gordan's daily pie feast

BNP are no doubt too strict in there policy but at least overcrowding and suicide bombing will be down :inquisitive: at least in our country, they believe in bring immigrants home with incentives which is better than it may sound, they have changed in the last 10 years bringing there racism more or less cut down, i hate racism but the united kingdom is merely a small island, how no limits on our population can be implemented is beyond me, labour recently announcing clamps on the immigration policy is more or less garbage, there little they can do about those illegally living here under others accommodation, which no doubt is happening politicians can claim things that arent as always are never met, or about 50 years later than they 'predicted' and more nad more of the poorer will turn to there home roots, BNP as they run out of money, belive it or not the country is in poverty in various areas, with lesser population it would mean more jobs for our home population lessening the ordeal of unemployment and probably result in lower taxes, though with the credit crunch this could also lead to further closure of businesses....

To think that they ignored in every way in media doesnt really give us the chance to form a true judgment, its hard to knock anything if its never been done before, because change will be needed eventually, sooner rather than later, they also promise more prisons being built and longer sentences for wrongs, to some this may seem wrong, to me a murderer deserves a death sentence, though lesser crimes wouldn't necessarily vaily this behavior
We should stick with the bibles old testament if this is the case, the new testament is just a completely new edited religious text that is twisted for conveiance, it truely doesnt show how the world should work, law would be better, therefore the country would be run better, better more motivated police would be around saving the annoyance of these mixed up innocence where some have died or lost there lives through lack of police and communication efforts, which is unacceptable completely, and at least credit them with something, they tell more truth than any other, if they hold a threat, or hold a claim they'll say it and not try to avoid it like so many of these lieing politicians clearly do, though i believe many of the BNP party members are corrupt, there policies with better people would be more ideallic

JAG

11-20-2008, 21:39

Nope. Try again. I want your own words.

hmmmm? I dont understand.

rory_20_uk

11-20-2008, 21:40

Few are as resolutely as blinkered as Jag.

Just as no left winger can truely do anything that is bad, anything right wing is the worst sort of evil

~:smoking:

drone

11-20-2008, 21:45

hmmmm? I dont understand.

Will each police officer whose name appears on this list be properly sent in front of a court and judged fairly, or will some administrator just can them?

It's a simple question.

JAG

11-20-2008, 21:47

i hate racism but the united kingdom is merely a small island, how no limits on our population can be implemented is beyond me, labour recently announcing clamps on the immigration policy is more or less garbage, there little they can do about those illegally living here under others accommodation, which no doubt is happening politicians can claim things that arent as always are never met, or about 50 years later than they 'predicted' and more nad more of the poorer will turn to there home roots, BNP as they run out of money, belive it or not the country is in poverty in various areas, with lesser population it would mean more jobs for our home population lessening the ordeal of unemployment and probably result in lower taxes, though with the credit crunch this could also lead to further closure of businesses....

Nice, you hit fallacy #1 and #2 about immigration. Well played, you win the prizzzze.

#1 - Experts believe, just like they have been saying for the last, er... FOREVER - that in the comining years more people will be leaving the UK than arriving, because of the economic situation, just like any recession period. It is as cyclical as spinning tops... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/nov/20/immigration-credit-crunch-recession

#2 - Less immigration DOES NOT, mean less unemployment. Immigration and immigrants not only fill poisitions where we have NO desire to fulfill, such as fruit picking on farms - but because of their willingness to work hard long hours for little pay PRICES ARE KEPT DOWN. Meaning that everyone is better off. Lemme think, higher prices and worse supply - due to immigrants buggering off -.... what does that do to the economy... hmmm :idea2:

Not good.

Thermal

11-20-2008, 21:50

Nice, you hit fallacy #1 and #2 about immigration. Well played, you win the prizzzze.

#2 - Less immigration DOES NOT, mean less unemployment. Immigration and immigrants not only fill poisitions where we have NO appitite to fulfill, such as fruit picking on farms - but because of their willingness to work hard long hours for little pay PRICES ARE KEPT DOWN. Meaning that everyone is better off. Lemme think, higher prices and worse supply - due to immigrants buggering off -.... what does that do to the economy... hmmm :idea2:

Not good.

well theres no way our country can avoid the credit crunch un harmed, mose well contribuate too a countries bankuptcy :clown:

rory_20_uk

11-20-2008, 21:50

JAG

11-20-2008, 21:51

Will each police officer whose name appears on this list be properly sent in front of a court and judged fairly, or will some administrator just can them?

It's a simple question.

It doesn't matter? If they are taken to court and sacked, that is fine. If they are sacked without it, they can take their employers to court if they want. I don't understand the point and thrust of your question... Maybe I am missing something.

Few are as resolutely as blinkered as Jag.

Just as no left winger can truely do anything that is bad, anything right wing is the worst sort of evil

Not really. I just have views which I believe to be right and the best for all men, simple as that - just like you do and everybody does. But in this thread I see nothing that point by point goes against my points and nor can you, hence this statement.

Thermal

11-20-2008, 21:54

People don't do the jobs as benefits are generous. Reduce benefits (which Labour are finally slightly addressing) and people will then need to do the jobs to y'know pay for food etc etc.

Immigrants have been a boon in managing to not address the large number of people on long term benefits who turn up jobs that are hard and low paid as there's in essence no need.

~:smoking:

i dont blame immigrants, if they can get into a country which offers them work and a way out of there bad lives, and there willing to do jobs for less thats fine, but the government shouldnt let so many come in in the first place, notice france and germany and numerous other rich countries dont have this problem because there government actually have some sense, though those that our poor should turn to other richer countries instead of just the UK now, it can all be blamed on governments as most migrate because there leader is a psychopath i.e zimbabwe, beat up for voting for a certain person, thats if that party's members isnt murdered before election...

JAG

11-20-2008, 21:54

drone

11-20-2008, 22:12

It doesn't matter? If they are taken to court and sacked, that is fine. If they are sacked without it, they can take their employers to court if they want. I don't understand the point and thrust of your question... Maybe I am missing something.

From the article:

UK police forces and the prison service are scouring the list for serving officers, vowing to sack any they find, the Guardian reported.
My guess is that they will not be sacked in any case, and any that are should win their court battle to get their job back, or at least a tidy settlement.

What of the death threats people on the list have received? Are those going to be investigated? Surely the sources of those can be found, what with the huge surveillance society you guys have going. Assuming they are actually happening, death threats are the only crime I'm seeing in that article.

rory_20_uk

11-20-2008, 22:12

Other factors are globalisation and return on investment. It is odd that the wealth gap is always the fault of the wealthy. Possibly if wealth were capped at £200,000 this would improve the country. Hopefully even you can see that this would destroy the UK as we know it.

The other kind of thinking has helped form a massive underclass of unemployed people on benefits with no desire to learn or better themselves.

~:smoking:

JAG

11-20-2008, 22:23

From the article:

My guess is that they will not be sacked in any case, and any that are should win their court battle to get their job back, or at least a tidy settlement.

What of the death threats people on the list have received? Are those going to be investigated? Surely the sources of those can be found, what with the huge surveillance society you guys have going. Assuming they are actually happening, death threats are the only crime I'm seeing in that article.

As I posted before...

Some organisations and firms have dismissed members on the basis of BNP membership. In a leading case, Serco, which supplies transport services to public bodies, was told by the court of appeal it was entitled to dismiss a bus driver after he was elected a BNP councillor. The court said the employee "was treated less favourably not on the ground that he was white, but because of a particular non-racial characteristic shared by him with a tiny proportion of the white population, that is membership of and standing for election for a party like the BNP".

They will get sacked and they will not get anything in return, exactly what they deserve.

Rhyfelwyr

11-20-2008, 22:32

They will get sacked and they will not get anything in return, exactly what they deserve.

People deserve to be sacked for being members of a registered political party?

If you feel their supporters are a danger to the public and so should be kept from the civil service, how can you allow their politicians to sit in Parliament where they can influence the running of the country? Surely the party must be banned?

But then that would not be very democractic. This is the problem of the liberal left - it claims to be tolerant, while in reality its beliefs demand the total silencing of any opposing voice that does not have similar levels of toleration.

I know we are liberal democracies and not mob-rule pure democracies, but the liberal left demands a huge bias for the liberal element (if we presume liberty comes from laws), and almost totally removes the democratic element.

Strike For The South

11-20-2008, 22:34

Some organisations and firms have dismissed members on the basis of BNP membership. In a leading case, Serco, which supplies transport services to public bodies, was told by the court of appeal it was entitled to dismiss a bus driver after he was elected a BNP councillor. The court said the employee "was treated less favourably not on the ground that he was white, but because of a particular non-racial characteristic shared by him with a tiny proportion of the white population, that is membership of and standing for election for a party like the BNP".

Poet and playwright Langston Hughes was also quizzed by McCarthy's chief counsel, Roy Cohn.

Cohn: ``Put one more 'S' in the USA to make it Soviet. The USA, when we take control, will be USSA then.''

Hughes: Will you read me the whole poem?

Cohn: I do not have the whole poem. Do you claim these words are out of context?

Hughes: It is a portion of a poem.

Cohn: Do you claim that these words distort the meaning?

Hughes: That is a portion of a poem and a bar of music out of context does not give you the idea of the whole thing.

....

Cohn: Have you ever attended a Communist Party meeting? I ask this again because perjury is a very serious crime.

Hughes: Not to my knowledge.

If these men do there jobs I see no reason to fire them. This is a witch hunt of the highest order.

Thermal

11-20-2008, 22:41

BNP get attacked in every side i feel they just arent seen in a good light, if they were deemed angels by media many would change there views ( i written more if you look back a bit :yes: (i feel the need to say because its rare that i make long posts :yes: ( how many brackets am i using?(i'm getting confused :laugh4: ))))....)????

rory_20_uk

11-20-2008, 22:42

To be fair, I don't remember Jag ever claiming ot be liberal. He appears to be the iron cudgel of the left.

~:smoking:

JAG

11-20-2008, 22:50

To be fair, I don't remember Jag ever claiming ot be liberal. He appears to be the iron cudgel of the left.

rofl!!! I am incredibly liberal. I hate authoritarianism and curbs on liberty and consider liberty to be on an equal footing with equality as the defining quests government need to embrace. Indeed the biggest problems I have with the current Labour govt is not their positions on equality and their economic policy, but their authoritarian streak. I think I have been pretty consistent over all the years posting here on that. The fact you could get it so wrong shows how much attention you pay to posts by me.

If you feel their supporters are a danger to the public and so should be kept from the civil service, how can you allow their politicians to sit in Parliament where they can influence the running of the country? Surely the party must be banned?

No the party should not be banned, because they are allowed to express their views and the trouncing of their beliefs is exactly how you nullify them. Read what I have written in this thread, never have I said anything about ending the existence of the BNP, merely that if you are a member of the BNP you have to accept the concequences of it, such as not being able to be a police officer. just like if you are a member of a terrorist organisation you have to be prepared for the consequences of that. It is a perfectly coherent and simple position.

This is the problem of the liberal left - it claims to be tolerant, while in reality its beliefs demand the total silencing of any opposing voice that does not have similar levels of toleration.

You what? Complete lies and idiotic opinion on your behalf is not the same as fact. Liberals silencing opposing views... Oh dear, come on.

drone

11-20-2008, 23:02

As I posted before...

They will get sacked and they will not get anything in return, exactly what they deserve.

Over a list published on the Internet? Because we all know everything on the internet is true. This is about lives, careers, and due process. If the police forces do not do full investigations and adjudications on all employees listed and fired because of it, they will bankrupt councils. The smart thing to do would be to mark the names down, and observe. If they don't conform to proper police behavior when dealing with non-whites, sack them for these actions. It no longer becomes thoughtcrime at that point. Again, the death threats are the only crime I'm seeing at this point.

Idiots should be allowed to believe and say what they want. If they act to infringe on other people's civil liberties, they should get hammered accordingly.

JAG

11-20-2008, 23:12

Just watching the BBC latenight news and 1 police officer has now been suspended from the police for being on the list with a view to sacking him.

Good. Game.

:smash:

Ignoramus

11-20-2008, 23:27

rory_20_uk

11-21-2008, 00:13

Jag, liberal isn't having people sacked based on no evidence. This is about as "liberal" as Stalin.

Based on this you're hard left authoritarian.

Hell, even I'm more liberal than you!

~:smoking:

Rhyfelwyr

11-21-2008, 00:14

No the party should not be banned, because they are allowed to express their views and the trouncing of their beliefs is exactly how you nullify them. Read what I have written in this thread, never have I said anything about ending the existence of the BNP, merely that if you are a member of the BNP you have to accept the concequences of it, such as not being able to be a police officer. just like if you are a member of a terrorist organisation you have to be prepared for the consequences of that. It is a perfectly coherent and simple position.

If you are so heavy-handed with a political party then you may as well ban it outright. There's not a huge difference between terrorising and persecuting based purely on association with a political party, and banning that party altogether. These people have not committed a crime, therefore how can you justify persecuting them like this (because that's what is being done to them)?

As Drone said, at least the government could show a litle discretion and simply keep an eye on those on the list - if they keep their jobs now then they know they will be being watched. Arguably, even this is unfair discrimination, although it may be common sense under the circumstances.

You what? Complete lies and idiotic opinion on your behalf is not the same as fact. Liberals silencing opposing views... Oh dear, come on.

OK then, you let the people speak; however immediately afterwards they are driven out of their jobs and purged from the civil service for ever. That's true freedom isn't it. :dizzy2:

JR-

11-21-2008, 00:17

JR-

11-21-2008, 00:21

Being a member of the BNP should absolutely mean getting the sack from jobs such as teaching and policing.

Do we allow pedophiles to teach in schools? No.. So there is already discrimination and a vetting process to it.

Do we allow convicted murderers to join the police force? No.. So there is already discrimination and vetting.

The BNP is not a political party such as the Labour or Tory party because by its own declarations if gaining power it would dismantle the system in which political parties operate. Calling Fascists, who are members of a party which wants to be the head of a dictatorial Nazi style state, a political party like any other is not only disingenious but idiotic and moreover - ignorantly dangerous.

So having said this, these people do not deserve the same rights of privacy in terms of it being a political party. Just like I wouldn't think it appropriate for an Islamic extremist to teach in a school of impressionable minds and mixed races, I dont think it is approriate for a fascist.

Call me naive, but I simply do not believe that a member of the BNP would put the same kind of effort in trying to teach a child of an immigrant who might struggle with English, as a white working class kid from 'pure' stock. Nor do I believe they would put the same effort when being called to help an immigrant facing problems. Simple as that. And actually I think those who believe this to be wrong are the naive ones, not the other way around.

Absolute nonesense. We do NOT use this approach in a whole manner of areas, Apart from the ones I have already outlined - pedophiles in schools and murderers in the police force - there are literally hundreds of other examples where a line is drawn, and if you are on the wrong side you can't be a member of that profession. The police force don't allow people with asthma to join for instance... You may say that being simply a member of the BNP is not the same as a pedophile or murderer, because they have actually done a horrendus act - but my friend, joining the BNP itself is such an act.

I believe in human rights and traditional individual liberty more than anyone I know, but this is false liberty and false rights. Complete rubbish.
peadophiles are people whose fetish is against the law.
the BNP is xenophobic, and yes it attracts some people who have broken the law with racially motivated intimidation or violence.

but. there. is. nothing. illegal. about. being xenophobic. in. britain.

if you break the law then hopefully you will end up being busted by the law.

the BNP is a legally constituted political party, that is all there is to it.

JR-

11-21-2008, 00:32

rofl!!! I am incredibly liberal. I hate authoritarianism and curbs on liberty and consider liberty to be on an equal footing with equality as the defining quests government need to embrace. Indeed the biggest problems I have with the current Labour govt is not their positions on equality and their economic policy, but their authoritarian streak. I think I have been pretty consistent over all the years posting here on that. The fact you could get it so wrong shows how much attention you pay to posts by me.

except your liberalism doesn't extend to being a member of a legally constituted British political party.

this is as ridiculous as the argument over hunting with hounds:

a lords report confirmed that hunting with foxes is no more cruel than any other commonly used method, and yet the fox is still considered vermin but you can't kill it with hounds and men in red coats.

i point this out to many anti-hunting advocates, that the only rational argument is to remove foxes from the list of pests, and they say they don't care. as far as their concerned those rich toff's are getting what they deserve.

your argument is the same, it cares nothing for the rule of law, only emotion. if the BNP are acting in a manner that is illegal, then ban the party.

Tribesman

11-21-2008, 00:32

You have a friend or friends who are members

Well I wouldn't call them friends , scum that I have known over the years would be a more appropriate description , the sort of scum that ran with the headhunters ,f-troop and the 657 . Really nice fellas with a stunning selection of white power tatts . They may dress in suits now when they are campaigning for the BNP but they are still scum .

But anyway heres a simple question for those that are saying the police and prison service should not be allowed to say which legal political party its employees can belong to in case there is a possibility of their personal views conflicting with their job .
When Sinn Fein again became a legal political party in Britian back in '74 would you have objected if its members were working in the British policeforce or running the prisons ?

JR-

11-21-2008, 00:34

This will just increase support for the BNP. Just imagine the advertising they can get out of this. You can't fight ideology by arresting people, because it just creates "martyrs". If they want to stomp down on the BNP, they should just refute their arguments and wait for them to do something totally over the top which will alienate all their support.

you are quite right, fringe politics exists only because the electorate perceive that mainstream parties care nothing for what really matters to people on the ground.

JR-

11-21-2008, 00:38

Well I wouldn't call them friends , scum that I have known over the years would be a more appropriate description , the sort of scum that ran with the headhunters ,f-troop and the 657 . Really nice fellas with a stunning selection of white power tatts . They may dress in suits now when they are campaigning for the BNP but they are still scum .

But anyway heres a simple question for those that are saying the police and prison service should not be allowed to say which legal political party its employees can belong to in case there is a possibility of their personal views conflicting with their job .
When Sinn Fein again became a legal political party in Britian back in '74 would you have objected if its members were working in the British policeforce or running the prisons ?

being a member of sinn fein is not illegal, acting illegally by passing on information to a proscribed terrorist organisation should be punished to the maximum extent of the law.

Rhyfelwyr

11-21-2008, 00:40

When Sinn Fein again became a legal political party in Britian back in '74 would you have objected if its members were working in the British policeforce or running the prisons ?

I nearly mentioned them in my last post.

Again, unless a clear link could be found to the IRA or its splinter-groups, there would be no reason to discriminate against them.

However, I would keep a watchful eye. Nothing official since that would be discrimination, but you need to use a bit of discretion.

JR-

11-21-2008, 00:47

I nearly mentioned them in my last post.

Again, unless a clear link could be found to the IRA or its splinter-groups, there would be no reason to discriminate against them.

However, I would keep a watchful eye. Nothing official since that would be discrimination, but you need to use a bit of discretion.

this is why we have intelligence services. i'm sure the nuttier elements of the BNP are under watch from MI5, just as were sinn fein.

Thermal

11-21-2008, 01:00

i belive in most of there policies but still think the party members are corrupt, hell one of them is friends with a mafia leader in italy :hide:

caravel

11-21-2008, 01:03

And if this list had not got out we'd never know... just as we'll never know of all the supporters and voters that are not on that list (there are bound to be much more supporters and voters than there are members) and where they may be working.

Parties like this will always exist and draw their support from the ignorant. In the case of the BNP, they are not a serious fascist party and it is mainly tabloid rags that provide the fuel and create a niche for "immigrants are to blame for everything - thugs welcome" parties like the BNP. The government condemn them for exactly the same reason the police are doing - to look good.

InsaneApache

11-21-2008, 01:36

hahah, I love how you ignore all my posts and the rebuttals. Nevermind.

Rebuttals?

:laugh4:

KarlXII

11-21-2008, 01:43

LOL@ using the Human Rights Act that they oppose.

It makes me think of a man who opposes wooden boats in favor of paper boats. When this boat starts to sink, he's frantically calling out for wooden boats.

InsaneApache

11-21-2008, 01:45

Will each police officer whose name appears on this list be properly sent in front of a court and judged fairly, or will some administrator just can them?

It's a simple question.

You never did answer this question JAG

LittleGrizzly

11-21-2008, 04:20

For some of our foriegn members who may not know, the BNP are in fact a racist party, panaroma (i think it was) managed to get footage of one the head guys saying all i want to do is :daisy: kill pakistanis, and then the leader tells him yes but we won't get elected by doing this....

If you want crazy extreme immigration views and british nationalism you can join UKIP, if your a racist you can join BNP, its pretty simple really....

The bnp are a racist organisation, this is widely known by everyone...
UKIP are not a racist organisation but have strong anti immigration policys and bang on about patriotism like bnp
If you have those political views you join UKIP, if you are a racist you can join BNP... quite simple really...

His beliefs aren't important - his actions are.

Its pretty simple really... you don't let people have power over other people who have a prejudece against certain groups, this position is inevitably abused to advance thier racist views, see stephen lawrence as just one example..

I assume you think I should be sacked as a Doctor based on many of my views I've shared here?

and why the hell would i ?

Can you people seriously not see the difference between firing people from positions of power because you simply don't like thier views... and firing someone from a position of power who is a member of an organisation that wants to kill minoritys!!

If you join an organisation calling for the deaths of minoritys then obviously i would have severe reservations about you being a doctor, let alone someone in such a position of power like a police officer...

But that will never happen, but a vote for the BNP might shift the middle somewhat more to the right that is why I would vote for them if I was english. Vote for Wilders for the same reason.

A vote for the bnp is no different from a vote for the nazi party back in the 30's

The BNP may have some moderate members who are little more than Tories with populist leanings,

Any tories who thought the tory's policys werent extreme enough on immigration and the eu went to ukip, politicians join ukip, racists join bnp....

Those dissenters must be crushed!!!!!!!

:rolleyes: you clearly know nothing of the bnp, they are clearly a racist party, it is not even paticularly hidden, go look up some documentaries on the bnp

We have a party called ukip here in the uk which has similar views, the bnp leader even went so far to call them the 2nd best party in britian, so obviously me jag and all the other thought police would want any ukip members struck from the police and the like... ?

NO!!!

because the bnp are racists, ukip are a political party i strongly disagree with...

there is no difference between allowing a KKK member to be a police officer and a bnp member...

You are denying people something because of there political leanings!

NO! go read up on the bnp, and then read up on ukip if you dont believe me, we are denying people something because of thier racist views!!

I realise jag's paedophile example was flawed, as these bnp members haven't actually commited a crime, so i have constructed a better one...

There is a political group that advocates sex with children
There is a member of that group teaching at a school

Do you send your child to that school ?

Hell no, unfortunatly a minority citizen doesn't even have a choice when it comes to police officers, if a racist one decides to penalise him he is fairly powerless to stop it...

While a paedophile is beyond doubt a sexual offender, we cannot similarly label members of the BNP as racist, or perhaps more specifically lawbreakers, in that we would accuse them of breaking the laws of the land in order to pursue their own beliefs.

Well we charge people for looking at sexual pictures of children, this because they support paedophilia by just visiting it, they have proven themselves to have views that are dangerous to vunerable members of society

The ones that just view pictures aren't actually going out and abucting children, but we still do no allow them to work in schools, swimming pools and other places with children.

It is similar with members of the bnp, by joining the bnp they aren't actually unfairly treating minoritys in thier job, they are simply stating they think its ok to treat minoritys unfairly (like the paedo states its ok to think of children sexually by viewing pictures)

Do you think that racist politicians should be removed from office?

No, but then im not sure i would want to wait all the way until our very own krystanacht (terrible spelling i know) but for simply being a racist politician then no...

InsaneApache is right. Who let all this riff-raff into the room?

I have been wondering the same thing... :tongue:

Originally Posted by JAG https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/images/sdojo/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2067065#post2067065)
Plus I am sick of people saying 'you are denying them because of their political opinions!!!!!', RUBBISH. THEY are denying themselves the opportunity to work in schools and police the streets becuase of their bigoted fascist views. I don't MAKE them become communists, THEY make themselves become Communists and THEY should take responsibility for their actions, not me.

agreed

STFS, seriously read up, the problem with bnp is racism not thier type of goverment, i would happily allow non racist facists in the police force, same as communists...

Infact im sure in the UK police officers are allowed to be members of UKIP, which basically invalidates the idea that this is the thought police, we are going after racists not right wingers!

But is joining a political party an illegal action?

Being a racist should stop you from potentially having power over minoritys in the same way having sexual thoughts about children should stop you from being around them, simply thinking of children sexually is not a crime but im sure everyone would agree that anyone with that view should be a teacher, the same way that someone who views minority as somehow lesser or deserving of punishment should not be in a position to put thier views into practice

Yes and teaching children to be proud of Britain and being scared of what unregulated immigration can do is so much

Like i said... i have no problems with members of UKIP, who espouse these views, or i have a disagreement with them but they are allowed (and should be) to hold whatever position they want, racists who want to kill minoritys are an entirely different matter...

Sacking those people will martyr them and gain more publicity and support for the BNP.

I think gain from getting rid of racist police more than outwieghs any small gain bnp would make from this

No more than you know all BNP members. I am merely inverting all your comments and you disregard me saying I don't know any or how they really act. Kind of telling really.

being simply a communist a facist or a socialist isn't inherently wrong in itself, i would certainly never support firing a police officer for those reasons... being a racist is an entirely different matter, do you in america allow KKK members to join the police force ?

Few are as resolutely as blinkered as Jag.

At least he can debate without resorting to petty insults which is much more than i can say for you or some others debating with jag, play the ball not the man!

and as a side note i often find those who like to throw around accusations like that are often most guilty of it themselves... ahem....

Just as no left winger can truely do anything that is bad, anything right wing is the worst sort of evil

Im sorry are we reading different topics... i thought it was only BNP members being fired... when did we start firing members of right wing partys like UKIP and the torys ?

People deserve to be sacked for being members of a registered political party?

Racists cannot be given powers in our name (police force ect.) and private companies should be allowed to fire employees who are racist, maybe they should get some kind of settlement but you cannot blame a private company for not wanting racists in thier organisation, i certaintly would not want any racists tainting my business...

To be fair, I don't remember Jag ever claiming ot be liberal. He appears to be the iron cudgel of the left.

If you really can't argue jag's point then don't post rather than simply trolling because you are annoyed he's right...

you showed nothing, is all you showed was that you prefer the rule of emotion to the rule of law.

:rolleyes: you simply don't read my posts do you...

You would not have atheists who are members of a group that just wants to kill christians in a position where they could have power over christians

It is no more emotional than wanting people who have sex with children kept away from children... i would infact call it the hieght of logic whereas crys of 'thought police' are just pure emotion, if you have an argument to make then make it, by simply throwing out one liners calling my arguments emotional its makes you seem as if you have no argument.

peadophiles are people whose fetish is against the law.
the BNP is xenophobic, and yes it attracts some people who have broken the law with racially motivated intimidation or violence.

but. there. is. nothing. illegal. about. being xenophobic. in. britain.

like. there. is. nothing. illegal. about. thinking. sexually. about. children. but. you. still. would. fire. a. teacher. with. sexual. views. of. children.

Edit: wow! this has got to be the longest post i have ever made...

Evil_Maniac From Mars

11-21-2008, 04:33

LittleGrizzly

11-21-2008, 04:48

You don't allow a registered and convicted sex offender to teach children, but even a suspected sex offender is still innocent until proven guilty. If you can prove someone is a sex offender, they shouldn't be allowed to teach. Likewise, if you can prove someone should not be in the police force because they have committed a crime of some sort, fine.

Im not talking of a suspected sex offender, im talking about someone who is a member of an organisation that supports sex with children....

Its simple, either your principle holds so strong that you would send a known sex with children supporter into a school or you agree that it is right to remove someone who has views that make them unsuitable for that position...

But when it comes down to it, Churchill said it all. The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists. Everyone gets due process - I don't care if that person is a Stalinist, Nazi, Liberal, or Conservative, it doesn't matter. In a liberal democracy you cannot discriminate based on political views in this manner.

Errm, noones going to jail, racists are being removed positions where they can penalise minoritys..

though i think rather than make a point you simply wanted to call me and jag facists... :rolleyes: intellectual inferiority is no excuse for trolling....

Alexander the Pretty Good

11-21-2008, 05:01

The idea that in a democratic society, no anti-democratic party should be allowed is silly to me. Surely, if the majority favored abolishing the democracy, that makes it the correct choice, since the society is run along democratic principles?

If it wasn't clear that these people were BNP members before the list was leaked, weren't they being poor operatives for the BNP? The goal of a political party being to spread their ideas and positions among the general populace, if no one knows you're a BNP member, you're not doing a very job, no? :clown:

Evil_Maniac From Mars

11-21-2008, 05:17

Im not talking of a suspected sex offender, im talking about someone who is a member of an organisation that supports sex with children....

Being a member of the BNP, a political party, does not mean you should be discriminated against for it. A member of the BNP has the same right to exercise their democratic will in a liberal democracy as you do - without being penalized for it.

I wonder what the outcry would be if someone started refusing to hire Labour Party members?

Errm, noones going to jail

Didn't say they were.

racists are being removed positions where they can penalise minoritys..

How about we wait until they actually do penalize minorities before we remove them from the positions? :rolleyes:

intellectual inferiority is no excuse for trolling....

This is simply dripping with irony.

LittleGrizzly

11-21-2008, 05:19

The idea that in a democratic society, no anti-democratic party should be allowed is silly to me. Surely, if the majority favored abolishing the democracy, that makes it the correct choice, since the society is run along democratic principles?

I would agree, it is infact not the BNP political party that is being targetted or banned, it is individual members who are in positions of power which it is unacceptable for racists to hold...

seriously having a bnp copper is no different from having one from the kkk, sure they may not discriminate against minoritys in thier work, but it is highly unlikely, and no more of an acceptable risk than allowing someone who is part of a group that advocates sex with children (but has comitted no crime) to become a teacher as far as im concerned

If it wasn't clear that these people were BNP members before the list was leaked, weren't they being poor operatives for the BNP? The goal of a political party being to spread their ideas and positions among the general populace, if no one knows you're a BNP member, you're not doing a very job, no?

Jag mentioned it earlier, members of the police force and the like have to sign contracts stating they are not a member of racist partys and the like... im sure they found plenty of creative ways to be 'good bnp members' whilst in the force...

Seamus Fermanagh

11-21-2008, 05:22

It's been a long time since I read JAG in "full fig." :laugh4: JAG, you are a true believer in your cause, and your passion for your beliefs readily evident. :yes:

As to the list etc.:

Yes, acting on information from an internet list is chancy -- the internet is full of fabrications -- but it may be deemed legitimate cause to conduct a proper inquiry.

Assuming hiring contracts containing such "I am not a member of" clauses are themselves legal in the UK, than any corrections or police personnel who signed a hiring contract containing that clause and who are subsequently discovered to be members of such a group are subject to summary dismissal (and could, technically, be sued by their previous employers I believe [sorry, I'm a Virginian not a Brit, and though the VA code is based on English common law its not a 1-1 correspondence]).

In general, I believe membership in a political group should NOT be actionable, though it can serve as sufficient warrant for a different level of observation and supervision. The ACTIONS of any individual should be, and are, actionable. Here in the USA, I'm happy to know who's a member of the Aryan Nation or other such splinter groups. It lLets me know I can ignore them/not vote for them without wasting a lot of gray matter on it -- just like with the Greens.

Ultimately, I think that your political movement is pretty poorly set up if you have to hide your membership for fear of becoming a total social pariah -- that's not a good sign of "grass roots" support. However, if the BNP want to campaign on a platform of "put us in office and we'll end the whole shebang and set up a semi-totalitarian misoxenist paradise," and the UK voters are so insipid as to elect them, then enjoy the brave new world they enact. But come on, even USA voters aren't THAT ignorant -- your average brit isn't either.

LittleGrizzly

11-21-2008, 05:35

Being a member of the BNP, a political party, does not mean you should be discriminated against for it.

And being a member SKA, a political party that supports sex with children, should not mean you get discriminated against for jobs working with kids.... or should it... ?

what do you think ?

A member of the BNP has the same right to exercise their democratic will in a liberal democracy as you do - without being penalized for it.

Im not advocating taking away thier right to vote or be a member of the bnp, just they are unable to be a bnp member and a copper in the same away a ska member cannot also be a teacher

How about we wait until they actually do penalize minorities before we remove them from the positions?

How about we wait until each individual member of ska has sex with kids before we ban them from teaching positions ?

They are part of a racist organisation, the police protect and serve, how can we trust the police to protect and serve us all when they hate certain groups in our society..

You can hold whatever political views you like, but when you support the theory that certain sections of the population are lesser beings you simply cannot be trusted to protect and serve

If you views non whites as lesser beings why would you...

make all the effort you can to find someone who killed a non white
risk your life to save that of a non white
consider the safety of a white and a non white person to be of eqaul importance

imo we simply cannot trust them to be so impartial when they view entire sections of the populations as somehow lower beings...

This is simply dripping with irony.

Resorting to name calling in a debate is a far surer sign of a lack of intellect than spelling mistakes...

though i do apologise... im just sick of the constant trolling in this thread... yours wasn't even so bad i just mentally added it onto all the other comments and directed my anger at you...

Here in the USA, I'm happy to know who's a member of the Aryan Nation or other such splinter groups. It lLets me know I can ignore them/not vote for them without wasting a lot of gray matter on it -- just like with the Greens.

What would your opinion be on aryan nation members in the police force... ?

PBI

11-21-2008, 05:49

The idea that in a democratic society, no anti-democratic party should be allowed is silly to me. Surely, if the majority favored abolishing the democracy, that makes it the correct choice, since the society is run along democratic principles?

I strongly disagree. I would argue that abolishing democracy is the one thing a democratically elected government cannot (or should not be able to) receive a mandate from the electorate to do. However it is almost 5am here so I will not attempt to expand on this point.

However I was not aware that the BNP intend to abolish elections if elected. Though it would not surprise me if it were true, I was only aware that they were far-right racists. Could someone be so kind as to provide a link?

Alexander the Pretty Good

11-21-2008, 06:05

LittleGrizzly

11-21-2008, 06:11

It wouldn't suprise me but as far as im aware its not one of thier stated policys

actually quite the opposite is a stated policy
We favour more democracy, not less, not just at national but at regional and local level

http://bnp.org.uk/2008/02/bnp-policies/

the bottom one is about democracy...

as you can see from thier views they have some policys that would come into mine and jag's line of thinking, transport being the best example, or enviroment, it is not thier political line of thought that the problem is with, it is thier racism...

naut

11-21-2008, 08:25

No more than you know all BNP members.
"I've got it somewhere. Damn where did that list go..."

JR-

11-21-2008, 09:21

Parties like this will always exist and draw their support from the ignorant. In the case of the BNP, they are not a serious fascist party and it is mainly tabloid rags that provide the fuel and create a niche for "immigrants are to blame for everything - thugs welcome" parties like the BNP. The government condemn them for exactly the same reason the police are doing - to look good.

rubbish, fringe parties exists because the mainstream parties don't deal with problems felt by some sectors of society, like poor working class whites with few opportunities who find the communities flooded with immigrants, and the Gov't telling people their is no upper limit to a level of desirable immigration.

Fragony

11-21-2008, 09:42

as you can see from thier views they have some policys that would come into mine and jag's line of thinking, transport being the best example, or enviroment, it is not thier political line of thought that the problem is with, it is thier racism...

But really what's it to you why someone dislikes someone, and most of all what's it to the government. It's a party that works within the boundaries of the system you can't just 'mold' the system into a friendlist. Think of it, I hold a deep contempt for socialist and green party's, both are harmfull for our society, I really really dislike them. Racism is a petty emotion that leads to a lot of petty emotion with closet totalitarianists. That would be you and JAG you guys freak me out I simply can't believe how you can't see what road you are taking.

caravel

11-21-2008, 11:20

rubbish, fringe parties exists because the mainstream parties don't deal with problems felt by some sectors of society, like poor working class whites with few opportunities who find the communities flooded with immigrants, and the Gov't telling people their is no upper limit to a level of desirable immigration.

^^Yes as I was saying, tabloid rags... etc... :book2:

JR-

11-21-2008, 11:31

so those poor working class whites don't actually have a problem, they are just told they do by tabloids?

nice, the common man doesn't sound like he's responsible enough to be allowed a vote, maybe the electoral franchise should be retracted back to the property owning classes again.

Fragony

11-21-2008, 11:46

^^Yes as I was saying, tabloid rags... etc... :book2:

Standard (conditioned) response.

Tribesman

11-21-2008, 11:50

so those poor working class whites don't actually have a problem, they are just told they do by tabloids?
Well look back through this forum for a few months and see how many British tabloid stories have been posted as topics about immigrants or the threat to Britians culture by the current politicians , then see how many of those scare stories turn out to be bollox and you might get a fair gauge of the crap people are told and believe is true .
But I for one really like the BNP , I think their policy of making Ireland part of Britain is so much better than their old policy of deporting all the Irish :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

rasoforos

11-21-2008, 12:19

Lol

I found 5 people in the small village near Nottingham where I lived for a year. 1 of em living very close.

Its a bit puzzling because the place was 99,5% white english and the closest thing to racial tension was that the 'native' english polulation highly disliked the 'foreign' english population that moved from Newcastle in the 70's to work on the coal mine.

Its a place with no kebab takeaways, no mosques, no ethnic shops etc etc, and almost no non-english non-whites. However it is the roughest most unhospitable place I ever found in the whole of England and I ve lived in many places. Crime rates are through the roof, vandalism by underage youths is a constant occurence, 10 year olds boozing everywhere, old people having their glass panels smashed all the time etc etc. All in all not the place that you would want to live.

I would have thought that people who live in an almost 'all local' environments and can see that they are waaaayyy below average in living standards despite the fact that no foreigners 'steal their jobs', 'cause crime' 'mess the place up' or ' destroy the neighbourhood' should not really be inclined to join the BNP...but obviously this is not the case.

...Unless Jordies are to be kicked out of the country too under the BNP agenda :beam:

Fragony

11-21-2008, 12:24

then see how many of those scare stories turn out to be bollox

Not a single one?

Thermal

11-21-2008, 14:37

JAG

11-21-2008, 14:44

immigrants, illegal immigrants is a problem if tribesmen thinks it isn't then he must be mad, in the area i live in (no offense meant) it's spot the white man if you can kind of thing...... which i usually fail in doing :inquisitive:

lol.

Without even botheringto debate the dodgy thinking that must be held behind such statements, I will just say this:

So what?

rory_20_uk

11-21-2008, 14:52

immigrants, illegal immigrants is a problem if tribesmen thinks it isn't then he must be mad, in the area i live in (no offense meant) it's spot the white man if you can kind of thing...... which i usually fail in doing :inquisitive:
The colour of one's skin has nothing to do with being illegal or not. Many non whites are British and proud of that.

I am against illegal immigration - irrigardless of where the person is from; I am for economic legal immigration.

~:smoking:

Fragony

11-21-2008, 15:06

lol.

Without even botheringto debate the dodgy thinking that must be held behind such statements, I will just say this:

So what?

Dress up like an orthodox jew and see how far you will get, I give you about 5 minutes before you are attacked.

JR-

11-21-2008, 15:12

Well look back through this forum for a few months and see how many British tabloid stories have been posted as topics about immigrants or the threat to Britians culture by the current politicians , then see how many of those scare stories turn out to be bollox and you might get a fair gauge of the crap people are told and believe is true .
but its not about us, its about poor working class white people who live in place like preston, and they are the ones turning to the BNP.

But I for one really like the BNP , I think their policy of making Ireland part of Britain is so much better than their old policy of deporting all the Irish :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Why are you telling me this?

JR-

11-21-2008, 15:15

And being a member SKA, a political party that supports sex with children, should not mean you get discriminated against for jobs working with kids.... or should it... ?

what is this SKA?

Banquo's Ghost

11-21-2008, 15:47

Some recent statements are closing rapidly on the line that separates racism from opinion.

Please review posts very carefully before clicking the submit button - with the forum rules in mind.

Thank you kindly.

:bow:

Tribesman

11-21-2008, 15:52

Rasforos , that sounds just like Hungerford but with a coal mine:2thumbsup:

posted by Aries777777
~:rolleyes:

Not a single one?
I know you don't get it Frag , but no matter how often you repeatedly post the same crazy news stories it doesn't make them true . However when you repeatedly do it even after it has been shown that the stories you use again and again are untrue it does suggest that if you were in Britian you would be buying tickets for the patriotic red white and blue festival and dancing along to the cultured sounds of Avalon with all the other .

Why are you telling me this?
Ooooo I don't know . perhaps its a example of how British fascists are and always have been idiots who are always looking for someone to blame and coming up with idiotic policies . In the development of this current party they have so far blamed Jews ,catholics , muslims , irish , west indians , asians , africans , arabs , romanians , polish .....the FRENCH for all Britains problems:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: they are a bunch of ********* and their supporters are of the same flavour.
Now no one will deny that countries have problems , but when peoples answers to problems consist of lies hate and ignorance they should be treated with the contempt that they merit .
But like I say I love the BNP , their publications and forums give me more laughs than even fragony does .

Rhyfelwyr

11-21-2008, 15:58

The problem with groups such as the BNP will continue so long as people are disillusioned with the mainstream parties.

My grandmother, while not BNP member or voter, sympathises with some of their views on immigration, while of course not supporting any outright racism. She's not a murderous neo-Nazi skinhead that wants all of x nationality to 'go home', just an average pensioner with (admittedly somewhat ignorant) concerns over the affects immigration will have on the UK and its economy.

No matter how despicable much of their membership is, so long as the rest of society continues to make unfair generalisations and persecute their members, the BNP will only recieve sympathy from the average poor white person.

Fragony

11-21-2008, 16:52

I know you don't get it Frag , but no matter how often you repeatedly post the same crazy news stories it doesn't make them true .

But Tribes when you say it's bollocks it doesn't just become it, kids do get detention because they have reservations about kneeling down and praying to allah. In Oxford they actually have winterorwhatever lights. And people actually get 3 years in prison because they have been playing with the idea of torching a mosque.

JR-

11-21-2008, 17:00

Ooooo I don't know . perhaps its a example of how British fascists are and always have been idiots who are always looking for someone to blame and coming up with idiotic policies . In the development of this current party they have so far blamed Jews ,catholics , muslims , irish , west indians , asians , africans , arabs , romanians , polish .....the FRENCH for all Britains problems:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: they are a bunch of ********* and their supporters are of the same flavour.
Now no one will deny that countries have problems , but when peoples answers to problems consist of lies hate and ignorance they should be treated with the contempt that they merit .
But like I say I love the BNP , their publications and forums give me more laughs than even fragony does .
while it is lovely to know what you think, as always, it just seemed to have no relevance as a response to my post.

rory_20_uk

11-21-2008, 17:05

When I was at school I got detentions for arguing with the Religious Studies teacher. He was a christian and I'm agnostic. I would not believe that the bible was a historical text, and basically he did. He was descriminating on religious grounds. He should be sacked, along with all other christians.

~:smoking:

English assassin

11-21-2008, 17:33

My grandmother, while not BNP member or voter, sympathises with some of their views on immigration, while of course not supporting any outright racism. She's not a murderous neo-Nazi skinhead that wants all of x nationality to 'go home', just an average pensioner with (admittedly somewhat ignorant) concerns over the affects immigration will have on the UK and its economy.

No matter how despicable much of their membership is, so long as the rest of society continues to make unfair generalisations and persecute their members, the BNP will only recieve sympathy from the average poor white person.

That undersells the average poor white person who knows very well the BNP is not an answer, but otherwise there is truth in it.

I'm not sure the BNP and the anti-BNP aren't as bad as each other. I've come across the BNP in various by elections and typically they are deluded pensioners. They generally get about 20 votes max. You do very much have the feeling that if they felt a bit more listened to they would still be voting labour (my experience is the far right is anything but). And there is a certain irony in the hateful scary BNP now getting anonymous threatening calls from people saying they are going to come and murder them. Yeah, THAT's the way we show these fascist pensioners what parliamentary democracy means.

I mean, really, who cares. We had a BNP candidate in an election in Hampstead* recently. Hampstead for heaven's sake. What was he going to do? Not get elected and that's a fact. But instead of ignore him, along come the Anti-Nazi league. I've got nothing against the ANL lads I saw, or against opposing the BNP, but lets be honest, this isn't about resisting a real political threat, its about hanging around with your mates in the hope of some pagga.

Meh. A plague on both their houses.

*Posh and significantly Jewish part of London, for non-Londoners. Not exactly prime territory for Stormfront

LittleGrizzly

11-21-2008, 17:35

But really what's it to you why someone dislikes someone, and most of all what's it to the government.

Absolutely nothing, aslong as they are not in a position to abuse thier authority because of thier irrational hatred...

It's a party that works within the boundaries of the system you can't just 'mold' the system into a friendlist.

I haven't once said about banning the bnp or any other such nonsense...

Think of it, I hold a deep contempt for socialist and green party's, both are harmfull for our society, I really really dislike them.

Just as i hold a deep comtempt for partys such as UKIP, which have immigration and patriotism policys similar to BNP but they are not racists... so are welcome to positions of power...

That would be you and JAG you guys freak me out I simply can't believe how you can't see what road you are taking.

I simply can't believe you think we should allow racists to be police officers, i for one do not support hiring police officers who think some ethnic groups are somehow lesser people... its a recipe for racist policing...

so those poor working class whites don't actually have a problem, they are just told they do by tabloids?

Sure there are problems for working class whites... and then theres the daily mail with thier immigrant hating storys... the two are a bad combanation...

nice, the common man doesn't sound like he's responsible enough to be allowed a vote,

hmm, must have missed that comment, can't remember us talking about banning people from voting..

what is this SKA?

A hypothetical political party that should not have members in certain jobs like a teacher... or a police officer... because even though an individual member hasn't commited a crime he has a mindset dangerous to children, like a racist has a mindset dangerous to minoritys...

When I was at school I got detentions for arguing with the Religious Studies teacher. He was a christian and I'm agnostic. I would not believe that the bible was a historical text, and basically he did. He was descriminating on religious grounds. He should be sacked, along with all other christians.

well that was a nice story... shall we get back to the bnp now ?

She's not a murderous neo-Nazi skinhead that wants all of x nationality to 'go home', just an average pensioner with (admittedly somewhat ignorant) concerns over the affects immigration will have on the UK and its economy.

The primary reason to vote bnp is ignorance (no offence to your nan) why doesn't she just vote UKIP instead ?

No matter how despicable much of their membership is, so long as the rest of society continues to make unfair generalisations and persecute their members, the BNP will only recieve sympathy from the average poor white person.

Calling BNP racists is no different from calling the tory's conservative (as in idealogically rather than because its the party name) i think banning thier members from certain powerful positions is nessecary to avoid discrimination against minoritys, the effects of such a move will be negliable in voting terms, people aren't going to go out and vote bnp on the basis that bnp members cannot be coppers, some voters that were already very close to becoming bnp supporters may sympathise and support them because of this

but as far as im concerned removing police officers who believe minoritys are lesser people is worth handing over 1 or 2 votes that were already sympthetic to the bnp, no intelligent white person is going to see this move and think ill vote bnp when before they didn't even consider it...

immigrants, illegal immigrants is a problem if tribesmen thinks it isn't then he must be mad, in the area i live in (no offense meant) it's spot the white man if you can kind of thing...... which i usually fail in doing

Let me just say how nice it is to have a bnp supporter here so he can enlighten the forum members on the bnp mindset... keep going your making my arguments for me far better than i could do...

Not a single one?

Ohh please the daily mail is chock a block full of crap!

rory_20_uk

11-21-2008, 17:38

So, religious descrimination is fine, but ethnic discrimination isn't. If it helps, he was a white person as well, so it's OK to have a go. Sadly I'm also white so I understand that this doesn't fit the usual upset.

~:smoking:

LittleGrizzly

11-21-2008, 17:45

ok fine you want my opinion on your little story...

Technically wouldn't the bible actually be an historic text, maybe not in our opinion an accurate one but still historic ?

you shouldn't get a detention for doubting the accuracy of the bible

i was a kid not long back and i remember using various methods to avoid work, it would depend on whether you were after an intellectual discourse or whether you were just trying to stir up touble, abuse the teacher or just generally trying to mess around..

If you had done nothing but question the accuracy of the bible then a detention is not deserved, aslong as this didn't extend to disturbing yours and others education, infact im sure most teachers would have been happy to debate this point during a lunch break or something rather than in the middle of a lesson...

it doesn't matter what colour either of you are, it was racist officers i was advocating removing... not white ones...

rory_20_uk

11-21-2008, 17:49

So, no debate in lessons? Better learn when you're not discussing things...

All BNP members are definitely racists? No evidence besides a name on a list required?

~:smoking:

Tribesman

11-21-2008, 18:00

But Tribes when you say it's bollocks it doesn't just become it, kids do get detention because they have reservations about kneeling down and praying to allah. In Oxford they actually have winterorwhatever lights. And people actually get 3 years in prison because they have been playing with the idea of torching a mosque.

3 classics thanks Frags , the first is a story that originated in the BNP newspaper and wasn't actually true , the second is a complete non story from the mail and the third is that fellow who got caught red handed yet you claimed is innocent and the only reason he was convicted in court is because he wasn't a muslim .
Would you like a ladder to get you out of the hole you always dig yourself into ?

*Posh and significantly Jewish part of London, for non-Londoners. Not exactly prime territory for Stormfront
But it is EA, see Mosley was right the Jews are taking over , if you don't stop them in Hampstead they will spread to Hampshire then the rest of country and then the world .:2thumbsup:

LittleGrizzly

11-21-2008, 18:00

So, no debate in lessons? Better learn when you're not discussing things...

When i was a kid i didn't really want to learn, winding up the teachers was my fun in school, and i would usually try to use some kind of intellectual argument as cover, if some kid is doing that then he should be punished, if a teacher is trying to teach something but one kid just wants to have a debate that isn't really related to the work then he should do it outside of class time so the other kids aren't disturbed

If it is to do with the work you are doing and a debate would be a good classroom activity then by all means go for it...

Im imagining a situation where the teachers is trying to read from the bible or take some message from a verse and your there just trying to annoy him saying the bible isn't historically accurate

All BNP members are definitely racists?

I couldn't say 100% are a 100% racist with complete certainty, though i would suspect such, UKIP is there as a party for the non racists with crazy policys, bnp is there as the racist party with crazy policys, thus if you want crazy policys you vote UKIP, if you want racists with cray policys you vote BNP...

No evidence besides a name on a list required?

As mentioned with the contracts police have to sign, no.

HoreTore

11-21-2008, 22:20

In Oxford they actually have winterorwhatever lights.

Did you just blame british atheism on muslim immigration? :dizzy2:

Evil_Maniac From Mars

11-21-2008, 22:21

Resorting to name calling in a debate is a far surer sign of a lack of intellect than spelling mistakes...

I am sorry you perceived it as an insult, that was not my intention.

Thermal

11-22-2008, 00:32

originally posted by Aries777777
~:rolleyes:

so having a certain username is your defense in saying 'don't listen to him' :inquisitive: how pathetic

She's not a murderous neo-Nazi skinhead that wants all of x nationality to 'go home'

ROFL'd at that

Did you just blame british atheism on muslim immigration?

??? clearly that isn't the case....

Tribesman

11-22-2008, 00:46

so having a certain username is your defense in saying 'don't listen to him' how pathetic

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Alexander the Pretty Good

11-22-2008, 06:05

I strongly disagree. I would argue that abolishing democracy is the one thing a democratically elected government cannot (or should not be able to) receive a mandate from the electorate to do. However it is almost 5am here so I will not attempt to expand on this point.
I would like to see how you can reject one of the outcomes of a democratic election and not the others.

:shrug:

Anyone?

Fragony

11-22-2008, 07:17

3 classics thanks Frags , the first is a story that originated in the BNP newspaper and wasn't actually true , the second is a complete non story from the mail and the third is that fellow who got caught red handed yet you claimed is innocent and the only reason he was convicted in court is because he wasn't a muslim .
Would you like a ladder to get you out of the hole you always dig yourself into ?

Classics indeed, the first isn't bollox, the second isn't bollox, and the third isn't, guess what bollox! No matter how much you want them to be. We have been on this road bollox ain't the bloody mary it cannot be summoned it doesn't just appear.

LittleGrizzly

11-22-2008, 07:18

Well im not sure myself, i guess you have to follow the peoples will but how much power do you let them take before you decide it is too much and resist them... and what if it is too late... call it the nazi germany situation, should hitler not have been elected despite his votes, should something have been done at that point or later, did they try later and was it to late ?

Ironside

11-22-2008, 11:17

I strongly disagree. I would argue that abolishing democracy is the one thing a democratically elected government cannot (or should not be able to) receive a mandate from the electorate to do. However it is almost 5am here so I will not attempt to expand on this point.

I would like to see how you can reject one of the outcomes of a democratic election and not the others.

Anyone?

That's easy (from a theoretical viewpoint), you abolish democracy democratically, but keep having votings once in a while to see if democracy will remain abolished.

Tribesman

11-22-2008, 11:33

We have been on this road
Yes we have , would you like to revisit each of those topics posted on this forum and see if yor mind can grasp why each story as it was portrayed by the tabloids was untrue...well apart from the 3rd one of course as it can only be you who claims that someone caught red handed and convicted with overwhelming evidence in a court was only convicted because he wasn't a Muslim:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: and that cannot really be blamed on tabloid reporting as the blame there lies purely with the strange mental process you have

Fragony

11-22-2008, 11:53

Yes we have , would you like to revisit each of those topics posted on this forum and see if yor mind can grasp why each story as it was portrayed by the tabloids was untrue...well apart from the 3rd one of course as it can only be you who claims that someone caught red handed and convicted with overwhelming evidence in a court was only convicted because he wasn't a Muslim:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: and that cannot really be blamed on tabloid reporting as the blame there lies purely with the strange mental process you have

If that means you saying it isn't true..... but that isn't something you can just decide Tribes, it just doesn't work like that.

Tribesman

11-22-2008, 12:11

If that means you saying it isn't true..... but that isn't something you can just decide Tribes, it just doesn't work like that.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
No it doesn't work like that Frag .
The way it works is you look at a story , then look at the actual facts about the story , then decide if the facts support the claims made in the story , if they don't support it then it isn't really true .
Though of course you can always do your approach which is so much better .
Find a story that supports your prejudices , apply your prejudice , ignore facts if they don't agree with your prejudice , then decide if something is true because you really want it to be true and facts don't matter because facts are just a politically correct multicultural muslim immigrant plot to take over the world.

Fragony

11-22-2008, 12:50

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Smiley fail! How on earth did you manage to mess up that?

Indeed Tribes.... the actual facts. Those facts being kids getting detention for having reservations about having to pray to allah, and christmaslights in Oxford are called winterlights, and someone getting 3 years in jail because he entertained himself with the idea of torching a mosque, friends warned the police, and he was arrested at home. There they found a few molotov-cocktails. 3 years in prison, which is odd since Samir A had pistols, explosives, blueprints of the parlement and a nuclair plant. Guess what no evidence! Carry on!

PBI

11-22-2008, 13:50

Anyone?

Well I would argue that 51% of the electorate should not have the authority to permanently deny 49% of the electorate the ability to vote, nor to deny that ability to future generations. I would also argue that the whole point of allowing the general public to elect the government is that if they make the wrong choice, they can correct it at the next election. I would argue that there are other preconditions for a free society other than pure mob rule, such as the rule of law and respect for human rights.

We have established a precedent in this country for the ruling government being capable of commiting treason. I would argue an elected government attempting to abolish democracy would qualify as treason, whether it was the will of the electorate or not.

Incidentally I would also point out that
a) Abolishing democracy for authoritarian rule never, ever helps (I cannot think of a single counterexample).
b) Any motive the government could have for wanting to abolish democracy is almost certain to be a dishonest one (i.e. they intend to do something in power they know will get them voted out).

Thus although I suppose imposing this one limitation on the power of the electorate is something of an anomaly, I struggle to see why it would represent a major problem.

However I was at first reluctant to respond since I realise that since we have, I believe, established that the BNP do not openly intend to abolish democracy, this discussion is now off-topic.

Tribesman

11-22-2008, 16:03

Indeed Tribes.... the actual facts.
Could you write a letter to santa to ask him for a dictionary this christmas so you can look up the meaning of the word "fact" ?

Those facts being kids getting detention for having reservations about having to pray to allah,
They didn't have to pray to allah , they got detention for breaking school rules that both they and their parents had signed a contract to follow .

and christmaslights in Oxford are called winterlights
No they are not , christmas lights are called christmas lights in Oxford , the winterlight festival is weekend celebration of christmas lights , pyrotechnics , lighting the menora and a light display for the festival of astonomy .

someone getting 3 years in jail because he entertained himself with the idea of torching a mosque, friends warned the police, and he was arrested at home. There they found a few molotov-cocktails. 3 years in prison,
Yet you claimed he is innocent and was only convicted because he wasn't a Muslim:dizzy2:

3 years in prison, which is odd since Samir A had pistols, explosives, blueprints of the parlement and a nuclair plant. Guess what no evidence! Carry on!
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Samir was convicted of the charges that were put to the court that were supported with evidence , he was aquitted on the charges where the evidence presented was not sufficient to secure a conviction ...he went to jail for the charges which were proven before a court:yes:
Then after serving his sentence he was arrested with new evidence and was convicted with that evidence and sent to jail again...so your point was ????????

InsaneApache

11-22-2008, 16:26

:focus:

Perhaps this is why the BNP are gaining ground in the UK, notwithstanding the fact that Labour has ditched it's roots within the white working class.

Whites will be an ethnic minority in Britain by the end of the century. Analysis of official figures indicate that, at current fertility rates and levels of immigration, there will be more non-whites than whites by 2100.

It would be the first time in history that a major indigenous population has voluntarily become a minority, rather than through war, famine or disease. Whites will be a minority in London by 2010.

In the early 1950s there were only a few tens of thousands of non-whites in the UK. By 1991 that had risen to 3 million - 6 per cent of the population. The population of ethnic minorities has been growing at between 2 and 4 per cent a year. Net immigration has been running at record levels, with 185,000 newcomers last year.

Government forecasts suggest that immigration on its own will be responsible for half the growth of the British population over the next couple of decades.

New immigrants, who are on average younger than the population at large, also tend to have higher fertility rates. In contrast, the population of white British citizens is static. Their fertility rate is very low - at under 2 children per woman - and there is overall emigration of British citizens.

The analysis of the figures showed that if the population of ethnic minorities grows at 4 per cent a year, whites will become a minority before 2100. The demographer who made the calculation wished to remain anonymous for fear of accusations of racism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world1

Fragony

11-22-2008, 16:30

They didn't have to pray to allah , they got detention for breaking school rules that both they and their parents had signed a contract to follow .

School rules being having to pray to allah :yes:

No they are not , christmas lights are called christmas lights in Oxford , the winterlight festival is weekend celebration of christmas lights , pyrotechnics , lighting the menora and a light display for the festival of astonomy .

Maybe by the people that disagree with the decision of the city council still call them christmas lights, c'est possible.

Yet you claimed he is innocent and was only convicted because he wasn't a Muslim

Nope that's what you made out of it.

so your point was ????????

Is. Double standard. He couldn't be punnished for a crime he didn't commit.

Tribesman

11-22-2008, 16:40

Fragony

11-22-2008, 16:48

As for Fragonys last post :dizzy2:
I am sure it must make sense to him in his strange world he creates.

Saved by the topic

Rhyfelwyr

11-22-2008, 18:53

Perhaps this is why the BNP are gaining ground in the UK, notwithstanding the fact that Labour has ditched it's roots within the white working class.

I think that this is the heart of the matter. I'm not surprised that BNP supporters are disillusioned with democracy - right now they know that one of the two new right parties will be elected, and no others will have worthwhile representation.

The BNP aren't really on the right, they are more National Socialists - they offer the average poor (white) person more than any major party does.

rory_20_uk

11-22-2008, 19:17

No, they promise, not offer. Big difference. In power they don't improve anything, any more than Labour is a boon to the working classes.

All parties pander to power and money pure and simple.

~:smoking:

Incongruous

11-22-2008, 21:36

Nice article IA , amazing isn't it , if you take a record number and multiply it by the maximum potential growth you can get a really big number . Wasn't that study pretty much torn apart at the time like his definition of what an immigrant is , what a white person is and what a british person is .

As for Fragonys last post :dizzy2:
I am sure it must make sense to him in his strange world he creates.

The fact that it is even on the bloody cards is reason enough for it to be taken seriously. Anyway, why would anyone still be in favour of uncontrolled mass immigration?
Its an absurdity which ought to be ended right now, the ida that some people have, of allowing massive amounts of immigrants with no attatchment to native culture into a country, is absurd, when on earth has such a culrurall invasion ever been accepted peacfully?

If you want immigration, expect the racist backlash that comes with it.

Tribesman

11-22-2008, 23:37

Anyway, why would anyone still be in favour of uncontrolled mass immigration?

Could you name any party in any country that is in favour of uncontrolled mass immigration ?
Or is that one of dorothys companions you have set up there on the yellow brick road:idea2:

rory_20_uk

11-23-2008, 00:02

Although not overtly in favour of it, Labour certainly presided over a far greater influx than they had anticipated so as good as uncontrolled.

But then the EU doesn't let the UK alter numbers. The current agreements with the EU were again decided under Labour.

Belatedly we're getting skills based admission - except for the EU where most come from.

~:smoking:

InsaneApache

11-23-2008, 00:03

Could you name any party in any country that is in favour of uncontrolled mass immigration ?
Or is that one of dorothys companions you have set up there on the yellow brick road:idea2:

New Labour.

Tribesman

11-23-2008, 00:13

New Labour.

Wow New Labour has abolished all immigration controls .
Well done IA , isn't it wonderful this new technology that allows you to communicate all the way from that strange planet you live on .

InsaneApache

11-23-2008, 00:20

Do you mean the reality planet Tribes?

Just look at the figures for the last 11 years and then tell me that I'm deluded.

Another thing that interests me is why the left would want to encourage the sort of immigration that has the effect of driving down wages for the working class. Perhaps you might throw some pearls of wisdom my way. :inquisitive:

Incongruous

11-23-2008, 00:32

Could you name any party in any country that is in favour of uncontrolled mass immigration ?
Or is that one of dorothys companions you have set up there on the yellow brick road:idea2:

Yes, yes, yes, although he wasn't named that, he supposed he may as well be, his name was simply large scale mass immigration, he is apparently very friendly with Labour, though he also hangs out with the Tories.

Rhyfelwyr

11-23-2008, 00:58

Another thing that interests me is why the left would want to encourage the sort of immigration that has the effect of driving down wages for the working class. Perhaps you might throw some pearls of wisdom my way. :inquisitive:

Well I don't, it's a liberal left thing...

Tribesman

11-23-2008, 02:05

Do you mean the reality planet Tribes?

Is that the one where they speak an alternative version of the English language ?
So tell me Insane , on your planet what does ....Could you name any party in any country that is in favour of uncontrolled mass immigration ....mean as you seem to have rather strange definitions of those words .

Another thing that interests me is why the left
Hold on there , you said New Labour , since when has New Labour been of the left , on this planet New Labour is Thatcher lite?

his name was simply large scale mass immigration
Ah large scale mass immigration , thats not uncontrolled mass immigration is it .
That's the government getting their sums wrong on the numbers of new EU citizens who wanted to take the minimum wage jobs that the poor white (not)working class brits couldn't be arsed to take . Then again didn't they say this month that half of all those immigrants have already buggered off out of Britain .

InsaneApache

11-23-2008, 02:44

Hold on there , you said New Labour , since when has New Labour been of the left , on this planet New Labour is Thatcher lite?

You can do better than that old chestnut Tribes. :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Authoritarian, BIG government, tax and spend, pro EU, warmongers, restriction of civil liberties....oh yea very Thatcherite I'm sure.......not.

So what planet are you on tonight? Planet Bushmills? :laugh4:

Anyway, just to show there's no hard feelings, here's something to cheer you up....

I should have joined UKIP!!! (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BUNUuqlG1a0)

Pannonian

11-23-2008, 04:45

You can do better than that old chestnut Tribes. :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Authoritarian, BIG government, tax and spend, pro EU, warmongers, restriction of civil liberties....oh yea very Thatcherite I'm sure.......not.

So what planet are you on tonight? Planet Bushmills? :laugh4:

AFAIK, Thatcherism is all of the above, except pro-EU. However, the salient feature of Thatcherism, market favoured over government, is certainly just as prominent in Blairism. I don't know the details, but IIRC neither movement particularly helped small businesses either, but favoured big businesses.

Incongruous

11-23-2008, 06:02

Ah large scale mass immigration , thats not uncontrolled mass immigration is it .
That's the government getting their sums wrong on the numbers of new EU citizens who wanted to take the minimum wage jobs that the poor white (not)working class brits couldn't be arsed to take . Then again didn't they say this month that half of all those immigrants have already buggered off out of Britain .

Ah, so what?

If the governemnt keeps on getting its sums wrong and not telling the whole truth about immigration, the populace may as well see it as uncontrolled or at best poorly controlled.

The fact is that the govt. has been so frikin obscure and dodgy about the issue of mass immigration that it no longer really matters what the bloody truth is. The public now openly percieves it to be a problem, it must be approached as such. Sweeping it under the carpet will merley enlarge the sense of hysteria currently fermenting in British society.

Immigration cannot continue as is, it has become a social and political reality. You can decry this as much as you want, it will not change a thing.

@IA, I'm sorry but again there seems to be this perception that the Tories ever gave a toss about the nations feelings on immigration, remember what they did to Enoch? Threw the man and his concerns into the wilderness and only now are they looking back, tossers.

HoreTore

11-23-2008, 08:06

Fragony

11-23-2008, 09:09

Uhm.............

So what?

Lord of the Flies.

when on earth has such a culrurall invasion ever been accepted peacfully?

The barbarian invasion of Rome was really the peaceful immigration of germanic tribes, but that was a process of century's not a few decades.

Tribesman

11-23-2008, 11:13

The fact is that the govt. has been so frikin obscure and dodgy about the issue of mass immigration that it no longer really matters what the bloody truth is.
Ah so the fact is that facts don't matter . Fragony you have a new disciple :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Authoritarian, BIG government, tax and spend, pro EU, warmongers, restriction of civil liberties....oh yea very Thatcherite I'm sure.......not.

Yep Thatcher in a nutshell , well apart from the EU as she was only in favour of the EU in terms of the rebate .

Fragony

11-23-2008, 11:40

Ah so the fact is that facts don't matter . Fragony you have a new disciple :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

And when facts are inconvenient you can always decide that it was made up by a BNP activist, or blatantly deny that Oxford has winterlights. :yes:

Tribesman

11-23-2008, 11:54

And when facts are inconvenient
I wish christmas would hurry up , Fragony really badly needs that present from Santa .

Only Frag could be at the stage where when everyone has long since done the :oops: oh dear I shouldn't have believed such a nonsense story he still thinks its true .
Frag one last time ....Oxford council has not banned christmas , it has not banned chritmas lights christmas trees christmas carols or any of that crap which you think it has . the story has nothing to do with political correctness or immigrants , its just a rubbish tabloid story for suckers to get outraged about .

Banquo's Ghost

11-23-2008, 11:56

Enough.

:closed: