View Full Version : Why did Portugal side with the allies (WW1)?
I don't get it, it's surrounded by a neutral power, what was there to gain? And how did Albania manage to stay neutral? It's for my paper so relevant literature is more then a little bit welcome.
CountArach
11-26-2008, 13:26
I don't get it, it's surrounded by a neutral power, what was there to gain? And how did Albania manage to stay neutral? It's for my paper so relevant literature is more then a little bit welcome.
Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_in_World_War_I)says that they were historically tied to Britain and as such they favoured them in trade, etc. Britain requested that they cease trade with Germany and when Portugal accepted this Germany declared war. There also appears to be some unofficial fighting going on prior to the DoW.
Fragony summoned me and I´m here to serve!! :laugh4:
There are several factors that informed the Portuguese decision to take up sides in WW1.
when we talk of Portuguese involvement in WW1 we have to take into consideration 2 different time phases....before and after a formal declaration of war between Portugal and Germany and it´s allies.
It is a fact that England and Portugal are historic allies, in fact the Anglo-Portuguese treaty is the oldest treaty still in effect in the world, having been signed in 1373.
Anglo-Portuguese Alliance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance#History)
Whoever at the beginning of WW1 England urged Portugal to not join the fighting, probably due to doubts regarding the capacity of the Portuguese army.
Whoever in Portugal there was a desire to join the war for a series of reasons:
-Maintenance of the african colonies, it was expected that at the end of the war a re-organization of african territories might be decided between the winners and Portugal didn´t want to be left out of the party.
Portugal had seen some of it´s pretensions in africa destroyed by England 24 years years in the British Ultimatum incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1890_British_Ultimatum) (a breach of the treaty!!! for shame!!! ~:eek:) so it was probably seen as a way to reinforce the alliance with England.
-In 1914 Portugal had been a republic for just 4 years, since the events of the 1908 regicide and the Republican revolution of 1910 that overthrew the monarchy totally, thus in 1914 a need was felt of reinforcing the prestige and diplomatic clout of the fledging republic, as a safety against a possible monarchic backlash.
Also a new government of the Democratic Party had just won elections, and the involvement in the war might have been seen as a way to unite the entire country against a common enemy, and diverting possible factions from attempting to overthrown the government
-Also it helped establish a difference between Portugal and Spain, and fear of Spanish annexation has been a strong motivator of Portuguese political choices throughout history, this fear goes through several levels of being founded or unfounded through history.
So in 1914 Portugal sends troops to both Angola and Mozambique, where they are involved in combat with German forces that had invaded Portuguese territory, there is not whoever a declaration of war between the 2 countries at this point.
In 1916 England formally requests Portugal to apprehend German ships on the Portuguese coast, Portugal agrees and this leads to the formal declaration of war between Portugal and Germany and it´s allies.
Portugal sends troops for combat in France in 1917.
Don´t miss...in my next episode, "the Portuguese position in WW2" or "Playing both sides against the middle" :saint::portugal: :deal2:
Fragony summoned me and I´m here to serve!! :laugh4:
Many thanks, I'll cheer for your national team at our next deathmatch just for this. Can you recommend any literature? Looks like there is one hell of a story here.
Prince Cobra
11-26-2008, 17:38
Albania was not a real state. Clans still ruled the country and the King has little authority. In fact Albania ended divided as the frontier between Greek&Entente and Bulgaria&Central Powers crossed the country. Generally the Albanians favoured the Central Powers because of the problems they had with Serbia and to some extend Greece.
Seamus Fermanagh
11-27-2008, 23:40
Albania was not a real state. Clans still ruled the country and the King has little authority. In fact Albania ended divided as the frontier between Greek&Entente and Bulgaria&Central Powers crossed the country. Generally the Albanians favoured the Central Powers because of the problems they had with Serbia and to some extend Greece.
Couldn't we update the names of the great power players and use this as the current definition of things?
Afghanistan was not a real state. Clans still ruled the country and the President has little authority. In fact Afghanistan ended divided as the frontier between NATO&USA and Al-Queda&The Taliban crossed the country. Generally the Afghanis favoured the Taliban because of the problems they had with the USA and to some extend NATO.
Done and done.
This is the monastary not the backroom Surströmming
This is the monastary not the backroom Surströmming
Mmmmmm.....Surströmming.......
Ramses II CP
11-29-2008, 21:58
You have to keep in mind that Spain was only barely, technically neutral and truly only because Germany estimated their military utility, in the wake of the Spanish Civil War (Remember too that for the most part the nations who would become the Allies in WW2 unofficially supported the losing side), to be minimal. Franco, however, was initially struggling with the shifting cabal of generals who headed his military to try to force them to get into shape to enter the war, and they were resisting in various obfuscating, sneaky ways. The political fabric of Spain was exceptionally complex, and Franco, for all his externally apparent power, was leading a bull by the nose. He just didn't have the pull to make Spain's entry into the war a reality, so when the Axis powers alluded to granting him territorial concessions in North Africa after the war he remained technically neutral and merely offered financial and logistical support to Germany and Italy. German and Italian ships and planes used Spanish bases at will through most of the war.
The British encouraged Portugal to enter the war, IMHO, as a counterbalance against Franco's ever shifting loyalty. In a way it worked too; when German military gains in Europe began to reverse Franco's policies of conciliation reversed as well, just as quickly, and by the time of the D day invasions he was actively posturing to be anti-German by posting his divisions along the Pyrranese mountains, south of Vichy/German France. There are few signs that Franco was genuinely afraid of the military power of Portugal, but he certainly feared the possibility of allied divisions landing safely there and conducting operations across Spain.
I don't have any good links for you, this is just my read on a very complex situation. There's not one answer, but IMHO it comes down to the fact that Spain was at least actively fascist sympathetic and Britain couldn't tolerate the loss of North Africa, which any threat to the control of Gibraltar could have lead towards. Portugal had historically relied on Britain, in much the same way that other small western European nations had, to aid them politically and practically to resist being occupied by stronger nations. In the event that Spain joined the Axis powers their obvious, immediate move would be to sieze Portugal, which required Portugal to have strong allies to counterbalance, which led to them following those allies into war, if only mostly as a technicality.
If you want to understand more about Portugal's entry into the war my advice is to read up on Spain's shifting neutrality, which was anything but neutral.
Redacted. :laugh4:
:egypt:
Prince Cobra
11-29-2008, 22:27
You have to keep in mind that Spain was only barely, technically neutral and truly only because Germany estimated their military utility, in the wake of the Spanish Civil War (Remember too that for the most part the nations who would become the Allies in WW2 unofficially supported the losing side), to be minimal. Franco, however, was initially struggling with the shifting cabal of generals who headed his military to try to force them to get into shape to enter the war, and they were resisting in various obfuscating, sneaky ways. The political fabric of Spain was exceptionally complex, and Franco, for all his externally apparent power, was leading a bull by the nose. He just didn't have the pull to make Spain's entry into the war a reality, so when the Axis powers alluded to granting him territorial concessions in North Africa after the war he remained technically neutral and merely offered financial and logistical support to Germany and Italy. German and Italian ships and planes used Spanish bases at will through most of the war.
The British encouraged Portugal to enter the war, IMHO, as a counterbalance against Franco's ever shifting loyalty. In a way it worked too; when German military gains in Europe began to reverse Franco's policies of conciliation reversed as well, just as quickly, and by the time of the D day invasions he was actively posturing to be anti-German by posting his divisions along the Pyrranese mountains, south of Vichy/German France. There are few signs that Franco was genuinely afraid of the military power of Portugal, but he certainly feared the possibility of allied divisions landing safely there and conducting operations across Spain.
I don't have any good links for you, this is just my read on a very complex situation. There's not one answer, but IMHO it comes down to the fact that Spain was at least actively fascist sympathetic and Britain couldn't tolerate the loss of North Africa, which any threat to the control of Gibraltar could have lead towards. Portugal had historically relied on Britain, in much the same way that other small western European nations had, to aid them politically and practically to resist being occupied by stronger nations. In the event that Spain joined the Axis powers their obvious, immediate move would be to sieze Portugal, which required Portugal to have strong allies to counterbalance, which led to them following those allies into war, if only mostly as a technicality.
If you want to understand more about Portugal's entry into the war my advice is to read up on Spain's shifting neutrality, which was anything but neutral.
:egypt:
Well, I thought we were speaking about the First World War...
GB was relatively close (with its powerful fleet) while Germany were quite far...
Seamus Fermanagh
11-30-2008, 07:11
No doubt a consideration, Krook, but I think Ronin has the best of the answers so far.
Britain and Portugal shared a history and working relationship that went back a long ways. Though it may have been honored in the breach a few times, it has stood the test of time fairly well. You could even argue that that alliance is more special than the "special relationship."
Ramses II CP
11-30-2008, 16:04
Color me not paying attention! ;)
Thanks anyway :bow:
Krook, good one, this is really shaping up.
Seamus I have no doubts that Ronin's answer was better :)
There were some reasons - one was traditional alliance and common interests (for example German colonies - without serious forces there.
Another was mentioned by me earlier. I'm just bad guy so I imagined what would happen if Portugal joined Central States. Far from any allies, without support. I don't know portuguese army level but I don't expect it was bigger than british. I'm not even mentioning fleet - uncomparable. Biggest portugese cities are next to sea - british fleet would destroy them.
Portugal choice was easy - supporting Ententa gave some benefits, joining Central States - only problems.
I believe a brigade (or three) of Portugese were destroyed in the Saint Michael Offensive.
The truth is that there were border skirmishes between Portuguese and German garissons pre-dating WW I, and the assessment that the German colonies could difficultly be defended from a joint Anglo-French-Belgo-Portuguese colonial force which comprised the entirety of the Subsaharan African Colonies, and the possible land gains which could come from joining the wars made us join it. Pity our Colonial armies in Moçambique were utterly decimated by the German ones, and it was the German General which attacked Moçambique the only successful German General in the entire war.
Now if you want a curious story, here's something I learned last year in Archaeology: The German boats we aprehended along our coast were carrying none other than the magnificent Ishtar Gate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar_Gate) in boxes inside the ships. After the end of the war, with the boats still aprehended in Portuguese docks (Somehow, our services never got to inspect what was in those boxes.), the Weimar Republic, knowing fully well the value of what was inside those, and knowing that we never got around to checking what was in them, decided to "kindly" propose that we trade all the cargo that was aprehended in those ships be shipped safely to Germany, in exchange for recognition of the Weimar Republics that the ships would be then Portuguese, and they would send us a mummy one of their archaeologists had found in Egypt (The mummy still is in Science Museum of Porto). Our dotards of politicians accepted the deal and now it is showcased in the Berlin Museum. ARGH!
Those sneaky Weimars.......
Seamus Fermanagh
12-10-2008, 23:43
Those sneaky Weimars.......
No doubt they'd mailed the proposal using one of those charming 1.4 Billion Reichsmarks stamps. :wiseguy:
No doubt a consideration, Krook, but I think Ronin has the best of the answers so far.
Britain and Portugal shared a history and working relationship that went back a long ways. Though it may have been honored in the breach a few times, it has stood the test of time fairly well. You could even argue that that alliance is more special than the "special relationship."
correct, you should see the size of the monumentin the centre of Porto commemorating a British victory over the French.
correct, you should see the size of the monumentin the centre of Porto commemorating a British victory over the French.
Eh? I always find funny that British mistake that monument for being an appreciation of British help in kicking the French out of Portugal.
In reality, a la good Portuguese way, the monument has no British symbology whatsoever (At least, the symbology British usually do see - Lion = Three Lions = British). Infact, the Lion placed there represents the tenacity of the Portuguese, and exalted the strength of Portuense people who overcame the Imperial French armies, represented by the eagle. Further down there are the several events that happened in the city during the wars.
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