A funny thing happened on the way to the gulag

[InsaneApache]

I've been railing against the tendancy of the UK government to limit free speech and curtail civil liberties for years. Now it appears that just to embarress the Great Leader and his cohorts is enough to get you arrested by anti-terror police and thrown in a cell. I'm getting very nervous of the way the whole thing is panning out.

What was that Winston said about Gestapo tactics?

A Tory frontbencher was questioned by police last night after being arrested as part of a leak inquiry.

Damian Green, the Shadow Immigration Minister, was arrested in Kent and had his home, constituency office and Commons office searched by counter-terrorism officers. He may be charged for receiving documents allegedly passed by a male Home Office official who was also arrested.

Conservative sources said that David Cameron was furious about the treatment of one of his team and described the arrest as “Stalinesque”. George Osborne, the Shadow Chancellor, said that the police had some “very big questions” to answer over the arrest.

A spokesman for the Prime Minister insisted that Gordon Brown had “no prior knowledge” of the arrest.

The Metropolitan Police denied any ministerial involvement in the decision to arrest Mr Green. “A 52-year-old man . . . has been arrested on suspicion of conspiring to commit misconduct in a public office and aiding and abetting, counselling or procuring misconduct in a public office,” it said.

“The investigation into the alleged leak of confidential government material followed the receipt by the Metropolitan Police Service of a complaint from the Cabinet Office. The decision to make today’s arrest was taken solely by the Metropolitan Police Service without any ministerial knowledge or approval.”

The Conservatives said: “As Shadow Immigration Minister, Mr Green has, on a number of occasions, legitimately revealed information, which the Home Office chose not to make public. Disclosure of this information was manifestly in the public interest. Mr Green denies any wrongdoing.”

The official connected to Mr Green’s arrest acted as cover for absent staff in the private offices of Home Office ministers. It is understood that he was arrested last week.

Mr Green, the MP for Ashford, is facing questions about four leaks to the media between November last year and September this year. They include a letter from the Home Secretary to Mr Brown over the economic downturn’s impact on crime. It is understood that the Home Office and Whitehall were alarmed at this disclosure because it was circulated among so few people. Other damaging stories include a list, prepared by Labour whips, of MPs’ likely voting intentions on legislation to extend to 42 days’ detention without charge.

Tory sources said that Mr Cameron supported Mr Green fully and was confident that he had not paid for the documents. The arrest is certain to start a political row over who in government knew about or sanctioned action against a Tory frontbencher.

It was unlikely to be a coincidence that the arrest happened on Sir Ian Blair’s last day in charge of the Met.Sources close to the Shadow Cabinet suggested that an investigation into such a senior politician would have been cleared “at the very top”.

Mr Green was released and bailed to return to the police station in February. Speaking outside the House of Commons early today, he said: “I was astonished to have spent more than nine hours under arrest for doing my job. I emphatically deny I have done anything wrong. In a democracy, opposition politicians have a duty to hold the Government to account.

“I was elected to the House of Commons precisely to do that and I certainly intend to continue doing so.”


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5248278.ece

Watch this space, this is going to get very interesting.

This would be funny if it wasn't so close to the bone.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EQc_hLHXONE/SS8S5GCEx3I/AAAAAAAADaA/Zuvh2sh48Xw/s1600-h/robbie-gordon.jpg

[Papewaio]

That is the kind of thing that can bring down a government. I would put every conceivable legitmate and lawful spanner in the works to stop a government that is behaving like a police state.

Sounds far more like Zimbabwee.

Person reports if from the cabinet... but no one in the cabinet knows it happened.

And are we seriously supposed to believe that something of this nature wasn't mentioned to PM Brown.

Either he is a lame duck or lying. Either way turf that government out on its ear.

[JR-]

a disgrace no doubt. we'll have have to how it plays out but i hope it grows into a monumental political hot potato, because if it doesn't then it would indicate that british democracy is in very poor health, even compared to nations we like to mock.

[Sir Moody]

Not to say the Police didn’t mishandle this (because it sounds like they have once again made a total mess of things) but he was in possession of internal Government documents and if he paid for them like the Police are claiming he’s broken the law and should be arrested.

I’m a little confused about why counter terrorism officers were involved though since this was (just barely) a espionage case if anything…

[InsaneApache]

This is Guidos take on it...


In May 1985, a youthful opposition politician got hold of a leaked confidential government review proposing to encourage the unemployed to get jobs by reducing their dole. This, he raged, was " a raid on the poor".

Gordon was not arrested. Ironically it is also his government's policy now.

Can't do a link, there's a fair bit of swearing on his blog.

I am cynical, I know, but this is a political act IMHO.

[HoreTore]

but he was in possession of internal Government documents and if he paid for them like the Police are claiming he’s broken the law and should be arrested.

BAH!

He should be recompensated for the money.

[Fragony]

Oh crap just made a thread about this. Completely natural development, cows eat grass, water is wet, and lefties become totalitarian when in charge that is just the way of things.

[LittleGrizzly]

and lefties become totalitarian when in charge that is just the way of things.

:rolleyes: i would like to point out we are talking about new labour, not the left....

If it is infact a crime then the police or the goverment aren't technically doing anything wrong, that being said im usually happy for the goverment to leak documents, its nice to know what they don't want us to know.... is this to do with the vat rise in 2011/2012 ?

im also wondering why they used counter terrorism police though ?

[Fragony]

New Labour is working very hard indeed. May not be lefties fiscally but they leave a slimy trail wherever they go when it comes to unlimmeted immigration. Why do you think they used an anti-terrorist team by the way?

1 That man is really dangerous.
2 Pure intimidation of the opposition.

[ ]

[Husar]

Soon the counter-terrorism officers will go after pirates, no not the ones in Somalia, the software pirrorists and then the uhm, thieves...no wait, they could get hurt if they fall during a chase...

Seriously, if he really, like in real life, illegally bought some documents, he should get arrested, but the counter-terrorism officers thing sounds weird, maybe they just work in two departments and the news kind of mixed that up or something? :inquisitive:

[LittleGrizzly]

New Labour is working very hard indeed.

There's always something to be said for lazy slackers! Grizzly for pm!

May not be lefties fiscally but they leave a slimy trail wherever they go when it comes to unlimmeted immigration.

I think the torys have made one or two noises on the issue but i doubt tory immigration policy is much different (i don't think it is) especially after the last few elections were late on the decided to go after immigrants (election stratergy not actual chasing) and it played out badly for them

Why do you think they used an anti-terrorist team by the way?

1 That man is really dangerous.
2 Pure intimidation of the opposition.

2 or what moody said earlier about to do with espionage

Thinking on it though, according to the aticle the goverment made the complaint to the police, and then the police acted on it, so wouldn't the use of counter terrorism officers be done to the police force ?

or was there some goverment figure actually directing the police actions, becase that is very wrong, and i don't think allowed...

If the police force carried out this action after receiving a complaint from the goverment then its the police force messing up, counter terrorism police should be used strictly in terrorism situations, buying leaked goverment documents are not anywhere near what most people would think of as terrorism...

It somewhat reminds me of the labour member who was protesting at the party conference a few years back and was removed using terrorism legislation....

[InsaneApache]

OT but I'll bite....


It somewhat reminds me of the labour member who was protesting at the party conference a few years back and was removed using terrorism legislation....

...and the couple who were followed and bugged because the local council didn't believe they lived where they say they did...

The bloke who was dragged in front of the magistrates for putting his bin out a day early...

Or the woman who was fined for putting too much rubbish in her bin...

Terrorists one and all, they should have been put up against a wall...etc etc :wall:

Back OT..

I'm with David Davis here, this smacks of judicial intimidation. Now I don't know about you folks but I don't want to live in a country that threatens members of the opposition in order to shut them up because they have disclosed things that embarress the government. That's not democracy.

[KarlXII]

"All lefties turn into totalarians"

"We're talking about New Labour"

"OH OK OK SORRY BUT STILL LEFTIES ARE TEH SUCK"

:2thumbsup:

[Rhyfelwyr]

New Labour are not left-wing by any stretch of the imagination.

Also Fragony unrestricted immigration is much more a free-market thing. New Labour allow it because they are for the moment on the new right, much as the Conservatives.

I know there's a fascination amongst the liberal left with multiculturalism just for the sake of it, but in reality it comes about more as a result of small government ideology.

[CountArach]

"All lefties turn into totalarians"

"We're talking about New Labour"

"OH OK OK SORRY BUT STILL LEFTIES ARE TEH SUCK"

:2thumbsup:
QFT.

[JAG]

Not to ruin a great story and the moral damnation on the Labour party by, ahem, certain people but... Labour have said they had no idea the arrest was going to be made but moreover the police have stated that they did not inform any ministers....

So...

What we have here is not a chance to bash Labour for the arresting of the opposition, you have a legitimate reason to bash Labour for supporting and introducing the draconian anti-terror laws, which the police used in this case. They used anti-terror laws unilaterally to arrest a sitting MP for doing nothing wrong. I mean, THAT is the story. And it is disgusting. I opposed the crazy laws at the time, with this kind of thing being part of the argument against the laws. Ah well... But it would ruin the great story some people here want to make, rather than the legitimate one right in front of their eyes.

Plus it is not a 'left' thing to be draconian I don't think you would call the government of the US 'left' over the last 8 years, nor multiple other countries which have introduced similar 'anti-terror' laws... But again, let's not get in the way of some people's pre-loaded opinions. :)

[InsaneApache]

You are right JAG and you are wrong.

I stated this thread with the civil liberties issue in mind, it kept me awake last night, I kid you not.

However, the open goal that El Gordo presented was too juicey to miss. :shame:

Having read your post, I'm reminded that this was an issue on which we agreed.

Good post BTW.

[InsaneApache]

Apart from this bit...


but... Labour* have said they had no idea the arrest was going to be made but moreover the police have stated that they did not inform any ministers**....

* Labour? :dizzy2: I was under the impression that it was HM. Government, not Labours, that instigated this. Do you know something I don't? :inquisitive:

**Really? You expect me to swallow this bollox? (apologies for the mental image chaps!)

So let get get this straight. The Mayor of London is consulted, The Leader of HM. Opposition is consulted, The Speaker of the House of Commons is consulted, the Sergeant-at-Arms in consulted but, somehow, no-one thought to have a quick word with the Home Secretary or the Prime Minister?

...and I thought my weed was good.... :thumbsdown:

[Fragony]

QFT.

Compared to you guys it isn't very leftist indeed but we hold other standards.

[LittleGrizzly]

Compared to you guys it isn't very leftist indeed but we hold other standards.

So the problem is simply not being left wing enough ?

Glad we can agree!

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlk05iDxzXI

[English assassin]

Just as telling is some labour politicians (only a few, but alas quite senior) tentatively trying out the line "well, Green did have leaked documents....no one is above the law...national security dontcha know"

First up, the national security line is pure hogwash. None of the leaks related to national security and the idea that a Tory shadow minister is a threat to national security is laughable. (Certainly he's less of a threat than the current government).

But mainly, he's an opposition spokesman. HE'S SUPPOSED TO TRY TO GET LEAKED DOCUMENTS. This talk that if he paid for them it would be a crime so the police were right to investigate is complete rubbish, or are the feds going to kick in the door of every politician and journalist who gets a leak?

Something's up here, for sure.

Of course it hardly helped that the speaker of the House of Commons has been shown up for the hopeless idiot he is. THIS is how the speaker is supposed to behave:


In January 1642, King Charles, accompanied by over 300 swordsmen, entered St Stephen's in a foolhardy attempt to arrest five of his principal opponents in the Commons on a charge of treason. The members, however, had been warned of Charles’s intention and escaped.

When asked where the members could be found, the Speaker, William Lenthall, fell to his knees before the King and said:

‘May it please Your Majesty, I have neither eyes to see, nor tongue to speak in this place, but as the House is pleased to direct me, whose servant I am here, and I humbly beg Your Majesty’s pardon that I cannot give any other answer than this.

This extraordinary declaration established the Speaker as the spokesperson of the House of Commons. Charles left St Stephen’s in humiliation, and no monarch has ever entered the Commons Chamber since. The English Civil War ensued, culminating in the dramatic trial and execution of the king.

There is not much to his job but he failed even on the little that there is. Martin should have gone before but must go now.

[JR-]

stunted little class warrior with some hefty chips on his shoulder. should never have been Speaker.

[InsaneApache]

It's getting like a game of pass the parcel. Usual crap from those in power. "It won't me guv, a big boy did it and ran away!"

I feel for Jill Pay who's obviously being set up as a patsy.

Won't anyone take responsibilty these days for cock ups?

[JR-]

she was by all accounts a very unsuitable person to hold the post.

some useless functionary from a non-entity government department, shoe'd in by Mr Chippy to replace the Public School Ex Army Officer, as Seargeant at Arms for Paliament.

stupid decision all around, committed by a stupid speaker

[Sir Moody]

Just as telling is some labour politicians (only a few, but alas quite senior) tentatively trying out the line "well, Green did have leaked documents....no one is above the law...national security dontcha know"

First up, the national security line is pure hogwash. None of the leaks related to national security and the idea that a Tory shadow minister is a threat to national security is laughable. (Certainly he's less of a threat than the current government).

But mainly, he's an opposition spokesman. HE'S SUPPOSED TO TRY TO GET LEAKED DOCUMENTS. This talk that if he paid for them it would be a crime so the police were right to investigate is complete rubbish, or are the feds going to kick in the door of every politician and journalist who gets a leak?

Something's up here, for sure.

Of course it hardly helped that the speaker of the House of Commons has been shown up for the hopeless idiot he is. THIS is how the speaker is supposed to behave:



There is not much to his job but he failed even on the little that there is. Martin should have gone before but must go now.

Hate to break it to you but it IS against the law - its just not prosecuted in most cases - the Police can arrest and charge someone over leaked documents and have in the past - they just dont most the time because of political pressure


HE'S SUPPOSED TO TRY TO GET LEAKED DOCUMENTS

Qouted this again because its utter Rubish - as a opposition member he isnt SUPPOSED to try and get documents he is SUPPOSED to provide a counter arguement and represent the opositions views on his department - it is nowhere in his job description that he should be engaging in espoinage (because thats what it is) to take Government documents.

Now this doesnt excuse the Governments actions on this (and despite their claims i cant believe the police acted without orders from Labour) they have quite effectivly tried to kill a fly with a bomb and then are doing the usual Labour pass the buck when it blew up in their face