How to Use Chariots in EB? [Archive]

desert

12-02-2008, 06:31

Park your chariots as close to a settlement's walls as possible and let them use up all their ammo that way. They will also soak up a lot of missile fire without taking many casualties. Hey, at least they're contributing.

Also try charging the chariots into enemy infantry only when they are facing away from them.

Alternatively, charge right through them ( click on a point some distance behind the enemy troops and run) and have your infantry attack immediately afterwards.

Cute Wolf

12-02-2008, 06:44

Read my posts in Strongest Character in EB...

I just play casse and I use Barrae too... (I never use him before, coz its weird he's the leader and his father and older kin are not... ) yes, he's pretty good at statistic, but his chariot weirdos are poor fighters.... He was killed in his 5th battle when smashing Avernii infantry formations from behind (he caught up and killed)... before I reload and never use him to smash enemy line again...

Barrae dies tragically when he smash infantry formations from BEHIND... :furious3:and I can see that they had no elite units in their line... But I'm not sure if it just my bad luck:embarassed:

desert

12-02-2008, 07:05

Then use them to pepper the enemy with javelins. Charge when you are sure that the enemy is close to routing.

Cute Wolf

12-02-2008, 07:15

(At the very same moment I play EB on my desktop... I write this in my Laptop)

Using chariots to pepper enemy line with javelins is a lot of waste... they are too exspensive to be used as skirmishers and rout chasers:smash:... charging infantry line with them just made most of them fell dead...:smash:

I think now that chariots are the real "Surprisingly Bad Units" afterall...:laugh4: Well, their 50 charge bonus is really a deceiver...

desert

12-02-2008, 07:31

How are they expensive?

Aren't they 200 mnai per FM?

everyone

12-02-2008, 07:50

I also have no idea how to use chariots; I tried some methods stated before such as driving them through an enemy formation and flooding the holes left there by the chariots with other infantry but what happened was that the chariots drives towards enemy formation, starts peppering the enemy with javelins, until the front of the chariot's formation somehow engages in combat with the enemy, losing around 10 men. so I started spam-clicking for the chariots to move instead of fight, and the clumsiness of the chariots made them lose another dozen men, while I kept swearing at the computer. then the chariot finally moves through the enemy formation, holes appear, I order some botroas forward fill the holes; however the melee does not seem to be going well for my troops, so I moved the cidanh a short distance away and order them to turn and charge (the moving away was to make distance and gather momentum for the charge). however the charge did nothing useful and the enemy units at the back of their line turn around and lower the number of men in my chariots to 14.

which is why I stopped playing my Casse campaign. A pity though, Barae was a really powerful character.

desert

12-02-2008, 07:55

I'll post a video on youtube demonstrating how to use chariots tomorrow, or when I don't have 8 HOURS OF HOMEWORK >_> . FFS, I should be asleep right now!

Cute Wolf

12-02-2008, 08:00

How are they expensive?

Aren't they 200 mnai per FM?

Yes if you are casse... and you didn't want your whole army rout beacause your poor FM falls from his squeaky chariots... If you are Aedui or Avernii, Chidainh are quite exspensive...:furious3: 3200 minai or so... I think it was better used to train some fat-<censored>-Gaesataes...:laugh4:

I just try to fill the gaps with infantry after they charge, and I must admit, that was a hard trick, but very effective indeed... thanks... but my chidainh crew survive is just 16... with their 2 Hp

Maybe next time I'll just increase their Hp in EDU to 5 or 6, so they will survive easily...:laugh4:

Mediolanicus

12-02-2008, 08:49

Chartiots are the best units in EB.

One unit of those in my stack and I can win any battle.
They kill over 200-300 enemies easy each battle, while taking only 2-5 casualties (hugh unit scales).

1. Deploy them behind your lines. Do NOT let them enter the fray. Just let them scare the enemy.
2. When the enemy is weakened and demoralised, click behind the enemy lines so that your chariots go through them.
This will most likely cause a massive rout.
3. AND MOST IMPORTANT : Keep the chariots moving at ALL time!
Imagine you were a foot soldier :
a. you see a chariot charging at you = scared
b. you see a chariot standing still in front of you = you pull the enemy of the chariot and kill him.
4. Chariots are good against cavalry, but keep in mind : keep them moving!

Summary :
Use them to demoralise the enemy and use them to initiate mass routs.
And keep them moving!

desert

12-02-2008, 08:52

Only Scythed Chariots are good against cavalry. Chariots without scythes will get slaughtered by any self-respecting medium cavalry.

Celtic_Punk

12-02-2008, 09:44

like stated before Chariots should only be used against demoralized weakened enemies. make sure they are tired out too.

To be honest, they are a bloody nuisance to me. Useless in a huge battle due to the amount of micromanagement they require compared to proper cavalry. Give me some heavy horses and I'll rout your chariots no problem.

The best use of Chariots is to sit them in the back of the enemy line, chase their skirmishers and archers away, and pepper the back of their battleline. this will demoralize them terribly. they'll be worried over exposed flanks and scared of chariots. then once they are wavering, lost a few good men (especially if they lost their captains and/or standard bearer) charge them repeatedly, then one last good charge through the line to friendly held ground, if they havent routed already. then your infantry should storm the gaps.

Apgad

12-02-2008, 10:54

In my last Casse campaign I'd always have a line of spearmen hold the line, and send chariots around and behind the enemy. Charging into their rear would always cause a mass rout. The javelins are almost unnecessary, and they're not that good for chasing down routers - it's all in the "shock and awe" value.

Interestingly, I never lost a single FM in battle during the whole campaign. I'd usually have at least 4 or sometimes 6 FMs per stack.

But definitely, definitely, (as said before by others) keep them moving once you commit to battle. Don't let them get bogged down in melee.

I found Casse FMs about the most useful of all faction bodyguards, given the kinds of factions you'll probably be fighting. Against Aedui/Averni/Sweboz/Lusotana they just carve up. I only had limited experience against Romani and Qarthadast, and never got to fight a Greek/eastern army, so I can't say how well they'd do against these different styles of troops.

Tellos Athenaios

12-02-2008, 13:35

Only Scythed Chariots are good against cavalry. Chariots without scythes will get slaughtered by any self-respecting medium cavalry.

Huh? Unless Brihentin, Curepos and the likes don't qualify; I've never had problem destroying those units using a Casse bodyguard + random (usually Sotaroas who've spent all their missiles) crappy infantry unit with pointy sticks... Trick is to smash the dense formation, and litteraly 'shove' the cavalry under the ground as it were.

Chariot attacks against cavalry are the equivalent of 'ramming' infantry with phalanxes: if you do it right you barely suffer any casualties at all; if you do it wrong your unit will get surrounded and promptly cut to pieces.

Cbvani

12-02-2008, 13:38

Tellos Athenaios

12-02-2008, 13:44

I found Casse FMs about the most useful of all faction bodyguards, given the kinds of factions you'll probably be fighting. Against Aedui/Averni/Sweboz/Lusotana they just carve up. I only had limited experience against Romani and Qarthadast, and never got to fight a Greek/eastern army, so I can't say how well they'd do against these different styles of troops.

Well the Roman cavalry is no better than whatever the Aedui or Arverni muster (indeed, it's usually worse); and even Triarii don't quite fancy playing the hero in front of a unit of Belgae Milnaht + Casse bodyguards on the background: chariots really do inspire *a lot* of fear in most enemy units. And those that don't let themselves be intimidated that easily are usually (cavalry) easily overpowered by those very same Chariots. That alone makes a Casse bodyguard one of the most potent units on the battle field.

Cute Wolf

12-02-2008, 14:17

Well, after an hours of playing lot of battles with casse bodyguards, and try some new movements in my casse campaign, I finally learn something new with chariots...

thanks for Mediolanicus

Chariots are good against cavalry, but keep in mind : keep them moving!

I just forgot that I usually use charge with alt+right click in cavalry battle... and let them fight for some time before they are recalled and recharge... :smash:the horsemen obviously had better mobility, and can pull themself out relatively easy... and with chariots... they had a large turn angle... so they must be pulled out right after the charge... right? Mediolanicus, thanks..:yes:. you just saved many of my future casse FM to be shown on the family tree "dead peacefully" rather than "dead in battle":laugh4:

Titus Marcellus Scato

12-02-2008, 15:03

Chariots are very effective in a straightforward charge and melee, provided you have enough of them. They are best used en masse, like about 3 units of them working together, hitting the enemy from both front and rear. Then they can break most single enemy units.

Chariots tend to lose in melee if they are outnumbered by the infantry they are fighting, e.g. 60 charioteers against 200 enemy infantry. But if you have 180 charioteers, that's a different story!

One tactic is to skirmish with the enemy and try and provoke one of their units into charging after you. Once the enemy unit is drawn far enough away from the rest of their army, 'bundle' in on it with all your chariots, and it should rout quickly.

The Celtic Viking

12-02-2008, 15:24

How to use chariots is pretty straight forward. Send them against enemy cavalry. Sing their praises. Move them behind the enemy lines and pelt them with javelins, and threaten a charge. If a unit is wavering, charge. Worship them as the gods they are. :grin:

You can also use them to break up an enemy formation so that your infantry can exploit the holes. Works pretty well when it goes home, but is a little bit more risky. Don't let them get stuck in the melee, and run them out on the other side.

Ibrahim

12-02-2008, 16:34

Only Scythed Chariots are good against cavalry. Chariots without scythes will get slaughtered by any self-respecting medium cavalry.

you kidding me?:inquisitive:

In many a custom battle against the Casse, the Chariot was always the cavalry killer. enven the Cataphracts can get shredded If you're not careful.

Codyos Vladimiros

12-02-2008, 16:41

Scythed chariots can do a LOT of damage to cavalry. More than make up for their cost - they cut through cavalry like a hot knife through butter. Sure, they'll all die, but you just took out the enemy's general and a couple of units of companion cavalry.

Kinda like Ghazi infantry in Medieval 1 :-) That's exclusively what I used them for, in my Seleukid campaign when fighting the Saka and Pahlavs.

Cyrus

12-02-2008, 17:55

Scythed chariots can do a LOT of damage to cavalry. More than make up for their cost - they cut through cavalry like a hot knife through butter. Sure, they'll all die, but you just took out the enemy's general and a couple of units of companion cavalry.
That doesn't make any sence.... i onco did a battle as pontus with them, a lot of elite pontic phalangites and a decent amount of light infantry aand cavalry, i was on top of a hill and charged the enemy general who was completely isolated, after 20 secs they charged and on impact i lost about 10 chariots, then i left'em in melee for about 20 secs and they lost another 20 men!!!!!!!!!!!! after wich they began running amok.... and guess what the only time in wich they actually killed any bodygurds was when they did that.... they are only useful against infantry the more compact the better ( i mean the chariots should be compact 'cause they usually aren't.

The Celtic Viking

12-02-2008, 18:27

you kidding me?:inquisitive:

In many a custom battle against the Casse, the Chariot was always the cavalry killer. enven the Cataphracts can get shredded If you're not careful.

This is what I've experienced as well, so I decided to make a test: Cidainh vs. Persian Cataphracts

The first ten battles I simply sent the Cidainh at the enemy, alt+right clicking and then waiting for the results. The results are in the spoiler.

No micromanaging:
81 men on 40 chariots vs 101 PC

1. Cataphracts win (Cidainh general slain)
Cidainh kills: 97
Cataphract kills: 75

2. Cidainh win
Cidainh kills: 93
Cataphract kills: 64

3. Cidainh win (cata general slain)
Cidainh kills: 97
Cataphract kills: 76

4. Cataphracts win (Cid. general slain)
Cidainh kills: 24
Cataphract kills: 63

5. Cataphracts win
Cidainh kills: 55
Cataphract kills: 70

6. Cataphracts win (Cid. general slain)
Cidainh kills: 36
Cataphract kills: 63

7. Cidainh win
Cidainh kills: 96
Cataphract kills: 48

8. Cataphracts win
Cidainh kills: 72
Cataphract kills: 74

9. Cataphracts win
Cidainh kills: 65
Cataphract kills: 74

10. Cataphracts win
Cidainh kills: 94
Cataphract kills: 76

End result: 3-7 (Cataphracts win)

With micromanaging:
1. Cidainh win
Cidainh kills: 83
Cataphract kills: 52

2. Cidainh win
Cidainh kills: 92
Cataphract kills: 46

3. Cidainh win
Cidainh kills: 92
Cataphract kills: 68
(I messed up in this one, but still won)

4. Cidainh win
Cidainh kills: 84
Cataphract kills: 22

5. Cidainh win
Cidainh kills: 97
Cataphract kills: 32

6. Cidainh win
Cidainh kills: 93
Cataphract kills: 42

7. Cidainh win
Cidainh kills: 82
Cataphract kills: 60
(Messed up again, still won)

8. Cidainh win (Cata. general slain)
Cidainh kills: 85
Cataphract kills: 60
(Messed up once more, still won)

9. Cidainh win
Cidainh kills: 94
Cataphract kills: 54

10. Cidainh win
Cidainh kills: 93
Cataphract kills: 46

End results: 10-0 (Cidainh win)

Conclusion: That your un-scythed chariots should fear "any self-respecting medium cavalry" is not true. With proper attention they can laugh at the heavy asses.

Celtic_Punk

12-02-2008, 19:05

CV gets a balloon. Ibrahim gets a slap ~D

Ibrahim

12-02-2008, 19:10

CV gets a balloon. Ibrahim gets a slap ~D

he didn't disprove what I said you know:clown:

EDIT: he proved it perfectly.

here is a typical Kataphraktoi (hellenic) vs Cidainh, supported by Hetairoi and somatophylakes strategous (I'm cavalry, AI is chariot):

out of 120 men, only 13 kata's, 30 hetairoi and 7 BG came out alive-I won the cavalry fight, but it was close*, and only because the Peltastai had reached the cavalry at the last minute.

*an custom battle 2 days ago-AI had darth's mod, no chevrons or upgrades on either side. I took 20% losses, mostly from the cavalry.

A Terribly Harmful Name

12-02-2008, 19:27

Chariots can fill a nice niche role in the battlefield as infantry intimidators, impromptu skirmishers and cavalry slayers. One of my favorite defense strategies when Casse gets attacked by the Caledonians early in the game is to place my massed FM Chariots on the higher part of the city and the infantry covering the flanks in a vertical line, watching from the Warlord's Hold. Then as the Caledonian mass approaches not only they get a hail of missiles on both their flanks, but when they pile up on the lower town I charge my chariots at them with devastating effect. Most of them run after mere seconds, meaning that I never had more than twenty casualties when defeating them.

Though I still think Brilhentin are far better and more useful in general.

We shall fwee...Wodewick

12-02-2008, 21:02

When the caledonians attack, I have just 3-4 FMs with no infantry and they just slaughter the Caledonians......on Autocalc.:2thumbsup:

Onehandstan

12-02-2008, 21:34

I only use my chariots for combat in dire situations, I usually use them to stand behind the battle line and causing fear amongst the enemies thereby causing them to rout quicker!

HasdrubalBarca

12-03-2008, 00:51

he didn't disprove what I said you know:clown:

EDIT: he proved it perfectly.

here is a typical Kataphraktoi (hellenic) vs Cidainh, supported by Hetairoi and somatophylakes strategous (I'm cavalry, AI is chariot):

out of 120 men, only 13 kata's, 30 hetairoi and 7 BG came out alive-I won the cavalry fight, but it was close*, and only because the Peltastai had reached the cavalry at the last minute.

*an custom battle 2 days ago-AI had darth's mod, no chevrons or upgrades on either side. I took 20% losses, mostly from the cavalry.

i dont think this makes any sense, could u clarify please?

desert

12-03-2008, 01:02

I see. It was foolish of me to denounce the effectiveness of Cidainh against cavalry based on a single personal experience.

I played some matches with Tarabostes against chariot AI, and a frontal charge by Taras consistently killed the enemy leader within 5 seconds. Casualties among Tarabostes were generally 80-90% (defeat by rout) and 50-75% for the chariots.

So heavy cavalry should usually be able to destroy them in 1 charge, unless they make the fatal mistake of not charging when attacking.

In the end, it really depends on which side is played by a human.

Aemilius Paulus

12-03-2008, 02:50

If you look in EDU, it says that Cidainh have the "launching" attribute as one of the attack attributes. So even if Cidainh do not have visible scythes, the RTW engine treats them as if they do, theoretically making them just as useful against cavalry.

However, I remember killing a 56 man 2 gold chevron unit of bodyguard Cidainh with one unit of 2 experience, blacksmith-upgraded Principes. The Principes suffered a javelin attack and massacred the chariots all with absolutely 0 casualties. Do not know how to explain that. I was awe-struck myself. I also remember using a Mercenary Hellenistic General to kill another full-strength bodyguard Cidainh with only three casualties. All of this on large unit scale.

Ibrahim

12-03-2008, 16:19

i dont think this makes any sense, could u clarify please?

the first part (plus initial edit) was to Celtic punk. I was joking with him

the second was a record that I was going to bring earlier to prove my point(CV clearly proved it, so i brought it as supporting evidence). that second part states (again), that out of 50 kataphraktoi, 50 hetairoi, and 20 G. bodyguard (total 120), only 13 kataphraktoi, 30 hetairoi, and 7 bodyguards got out (the general was a survivor).
the note stated that I used darth's mod (for formations).

Flibjib

12-05-2008, 16:27

In my Casse campaign (I've lost a bunch of them by underestimating rebels and overestimating my own units in battles), I've found my personal favorite method of using my "wagon warriors". At the beginning of the fight, before the armies close, I send one or two FMs up between the closing lines to toss some javelins in the approaching enemy's faces.

I'll pull them out as things start closing in, and run a pile of Gaeroas and Botroas into them, and wear them down for a bit that way, and when I start noticing some of the enemy start to waver, I grab all the FMs I have, and bring them all up within close javelin range, their squeeking wheels sounding the beginning of a domino effect of mass pants-crapping amongst the enemies, starting a massive rout which my painted warriors are more than happy to mop up.

desert

12-05-2008, 23:36

Why are chariots so frightening?

Are their wheels really that squeaky?

Gleemonex

12-06-2008, 05:57

Why are chariots so frightening?

Are their wheels really that squeaky?

In actual history, chariots were frightening because they would rapidly bring in oven-fresh troops to the front (or a flank, or an ambush) and haul back tired/injured men. Sadly, this is not possible in the RTW engine.

-Glee

Cyrus

12-06-2008, 22:22

Mediolanicus

12-06-2008, 22:32

I was wondering, why is it that CA put in so many limits to modding? I mean between hard codings and limitations due to rtw engine there is not that much u can modify. (exept for the awesome work done with this mod but there is nothing that can't be improved)

Because some parts of a game need to be hard coded.
When things can be modded they have to be "read" by the game, because it is variable data. This takes time for the game to initialize.
Hard Coded stuff is inside the game engine and stays the same, it can't be changed and thus the game doesn't have to check if it changed. So if you don't have hard coded stuff it takes ages to load your game.

Besides, RTW is already a very moddable game. Just compare it to other games.

Cbvani

12-06-2008, 22:33

That doesn't make any sence.... i onco did a battle as pontus with them, a lot of elite pontic phalangites and a decent amount of light infantry aand cavalry, i was on top of a hill and charged the enemy general who was completely isolated, after 20 secs they charged and on impact i lost about 10 chariots, then i left'em in melee for about 20 secs and they lost another 20 men!!!!!!!!!!!! after wich they began running amok.... and guess what the only time in wich they actually killed any bodygurds was when they did that.... they are only useful against infantry the more compact the better ( i mean the chariots should be compact 'cause they usually aren't.

When my chariots engage the enemies cavalry I do the charge through thing, then do it again and again and again.

Cyrus

12-06-2008, 22:41

Because some parts of a game need to be hard coded.
When things can be modded they have to be "read" by the game, because it is variable data. This takes time for the game to initialize.
Hard Coded stuff is inside the game engine and stays the same, it can't be changed and thus the game doesn't have to check if it changed. So if you don't have hard coded stuff it takes ages to load your game.

Besides, RTW is already a very moddable game. Just compare it to other games.

I'm sorry but would explain that a little better? eg what is variable data?and why do thay take long to initialize? What does inityalize mean?
I'm a real nooooob!!!!!!!!!! man i feel kinda stupid asking that.......:dizzy2:
Anyway wich other games could u compare it to ,europa universalis?
Where might a noob such as miself learn modding?

Mediolanicus

12-06-2008, 22:59

compare it to this:

Everyday you:
wake up
eat breakfast
(...)
eat dinner
go to sleep

That always stays the same. You know that is what you are going to do today.
That's what hard coded is for the game. It knows that that is not going to change

The (...) on the other hand can be anything
You can go to school
You can go to work
You can go shopping
You can sit in front of your PC all day long and play EB

This can change from day to day. Now, consider that you have a to-do-list that says what you have to do.
You don't know what to do without reading this list, because each day is different.

A game has to read and process the information that isn't hard coded (in RTW: all tha data about what buildings it can build, what units can be recruited and how strong those units are, etc...).

You know you are going to get up and sleep. You don't need to read your list --> doesn't take long.
To know what you are going to do in between, you need to read your list --> takes longer.

Capisci?

BTW : something that can change = variable, variable (in french en spanish), variabel (in dutch and in german), variabile (in italian), variavel (in portuguese), metablítós (in greek, didn't see that one coming...)

To learn modding, take a look at twcenter.net and look at modding RTW
But don't look now because the site is down today.

Or look at the sciptorium: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=77