Just called an ambulance? You'd better be white...

[HoreTore]

I'm so proud of my country these days...

Last summer, this happened. (http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1926561.ece)

A man knocked down, blood running from his nose, with 2 nurses checking him and telling the ambulance personell that he needs urgent medical attention, and what happens? They call him a pig, tells the nurses they should call the police, and leaves... Beautiful, eh? He was rushed to the hospital in a cab, and ended up in a coma for a few weeks.

The ambulance drivers were fined for neglect by the police for their behaviour, which they took to the courts. The verdict? Not guilty....

Of course they're not racists! One of them even managed to say "I've never had any racist thoughts in my life". Of course not, that he was a member of Bootboys(a neo-nazi youth organization) doesn't mean anything... But what if they're not racists? They left a disoriented man with a head trauma against the advice of two nurses. Either they're racists, or they're utterly incompetent. And the system does nothing to punish them.

Either way, I'm so happy to be norwegian. On a completely unrelated note, does anyone here want a young norwegian immigrant?

[Strike For The South]

Wonderful.

[Lord Winter]

They both should have been fired. :shame:

[seireikhaan]

Unbelievable. :thumbsdown:

[Yoyoma1910]

Paramedics seem to be rather picky these days.


http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/12/04/paramedics.blamed.in.death.wjla

[CountArach]

Sickening

[KarlXII]

Maybe they didn't want to get their ambulance icky. :thumbsdown:

[Kralizec]

I don't get it, this is scandinavia we're talking about right :dizzy2:

Anyway....
Despite the careful language of the spokesman in the article, I assume and very much hope that these men will be fired. If this guy seriously suffered brain damage that could have been prevented because of these :daisy:s, he should get some hefty compensation.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I would've done exactly the same as the ambulance drivers.

Lowering your pants and pissing over me? Off to the clinic you go with the police, not in my ambulance. Being an ambulance driver is a very dangerous profession nowadays in Europe. Maybe the ambulance personnel were fed up with being attacked all the time:

A paramedic suffered facial injuries and a suspected fractured rib, and a technician was treated for shock, after they were attacked inside their ambulance.

The two men were treating a patient in the Grangetown area of Cardiff shortly before midnight on Saturday when they were set upon. A second ambulance crew took the two medical staff and their patient to the University Hospital of Wales in the city. The ambulance staff have since been discharged.

A spokeswoman for the Welsh Ambulance Service said: “They were tending to a patient in the back of a vehicle when a group of youths boarded the vehicle and assaulted the crew.” Inspector Paul McCarthy, of South Wales Police, said: “We do have a few leads we can work on. Assaults on ambulance staff affect the wellbeing of the whole community.”

Francesca Montemaggi, a councillor for Grangetown, said that there had been a problem with antisocial behaviour in the area. “This is an incredible blow for the community and the paramedics,” she said. “I’m obviously horrified by this attack. It is absolutely heartless and cruel.”
Really, of all the changes in European civilisation in recent history, the tendency to abuse and attack ambulance personell must the most stupid of all. Currently, there places where the police must send in riot police before an ambulance will enter the scene. And, just as bad, as another consequence ambulance drivers have to be extremely careful whom they take with them.

So, yes, sorry for this man, but I wouldn't have taken him with me either. What is sad, is that this man had suffered so much brain damage that maybe he really couldn't help himself getting up, walking, lowering his pants and pissing over a medic. Tragic. Knowing what they learned later, they should've taken him. But they had to decide on the spot. And there was every reason reason to assume the victim posed both a security threat and had suffered only minor injury.


Apparantly, this was cause for Norway to enter a year long saga of self-loathing anti-racist frenzy. A media hype. A witchhunt. Shame on Norway for destroying the lives and careers of these two ambulance medics! :furious3:


Here's the ambulance driver's (http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2355648.ece) account of events.

[Kralizec]

Actually:

"We made a mistake, because we interpreted his urination as willful and a provocation, but NOT because we had racist or discriminatory motives," Schjenken wrote. He applauded Ali Farah's and Kahinoor Nordberg's subsequent campaign against racism, but claimed Oslo's ambulance service is "100 percent professional" and doesn't deserve to be branded as racist.

And...? I know from reliable. second-hand sources that being on an ambulance is indeed a louzy and often ungratifying job. Urine and feces are definitely not a reason not to refuse someone transport to a hospital- actual violence is something else.

[Strike For The South]

Bah. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good witch hunt.

[HoreTore]

Despite the careful language of the spokesman in the article, I assume and very much hope that these men will be fired. If this guy seriously suffered brain damage that could have been prevented because of these :daisy:s, he should get some hefty compensation.

Unfortunately, they don't. Which is why I would recommend that you stay away from Norway if you're not milky white.


I would've done exactly the same as the ambulance drivers.

Lowering your pants and pissing over me? Off to the clinic you go with the police, not in my ambulance. Being an ambulance driver is a very dangerous profession nowadays in Europe. Maybe the ambulance personnel were fed up with being attacked all the time:
Really, of all the changes in European civilisation in recent history, the tendency to abuse and attack ambulance personell must the most stupid of all. Currently, there places where the police must send in riot police before an ambulance will enter the scene. And, just as bad, as another consequence ambulance drivers have to be extremely careful whom they take with them.

So, yes, sorry for this man, but I wouldn't have taken him with me either. What is sad, is that this man had suffered so much brain damage that maybe he really couldn't help himself getting up, walking, lowering his pants and pissing over a medic. Tragic. Knowing what they learned later, they should've taken him. But they had to decide on the spot. And there was every reason reason to assume the victim posed both a security threat and had suffered only minor injury.


Apparantly, this was cause for Norway to enter a year long saga of self-loathing anti-racist frenzy. A media hype. A witchhunt. Shame on Norway for destroying the lives and careers of these two ambulance medics! :furious3:


Here's the ambulance driver's (http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2355648.ece) account of events.

Bah, Louis. If you wouldn't take someone in your ambulance because he pee'd on you, well, maybe that's why you're not driving one ~;) urination is a tell-tale sign of brain trauma. And no, there really was no real reason to think that this guy had only minor injuries. Why? Because there were 2 trained nurses on the scene who told the ambulance drivers that he needed attention.

And come on. A witchhunt? A former neo-nazi calling an injured african a :faisy pig and leaving him behind? I know, I know, give them the benefit of the doubt etc, but come on, this is just ridiculous. You just can't get more racist than a nazi. That's physically impossible. You think this guy healed up and this is just a co-incidence? Please.

But, as I said before, if he's not a racist then he's bloody incompetent. It's a shame that he's still employed.

[Tribesman]

A witchhunt.
So leaving aside that one was a neo-nazi , what part of the transcript of the ambulance mens actual words as recorded at the time by the health authority which showed they were being discriminatory makes you think that they were not being discriminatory Louis ?

[Husar]

This is just stupid either way.
Why would a nazi take a job that is about helping (all) people in the first place?
Was it the first darker-than-white coloured man he ever had to take and did he previously refuse to take any?
So his buddy was a nazi as well and they happened to be on the same ambulance?
Are there always two nurses on the scene when a darker-than-white coloured or white coloured man needs an ambulance?
Why does the medical service employ nazis?
Is white even a colour?
Why does a medical service employ nazis and then complain about them being nazis?
Is it colour or color?

Too many questions for me. :shrug:

[Fragony]

This is criminal neglect they should be fired.

[Louis VI the Fat]

So leaving aside that one was a neo-nazi ,I will certainly not leave aside that one was a neo-nazi, because this shows exactly why it was a witch hunt. The guy was a troubled teenager who flirted with nazism as a teenager. He went to some concerts, wore the boots, shaved his hair.

Then he grew up.

He got an education, got a job. Settled down. Was a respectable citizen by his early twenties. To say that this man is a neo-nazi is as ridiculous as saying that Obama is a crack junk from the hood, simply because Obama flirted with drugs in his teens. People do...'things' when hey grow up, when they are a teenager. Man, I could never have a job if people would hold me by my teenage standards.



what part of the transcript of the ambulance mens actual words as recorded at the time by the health authority which showed they were being discriminatory makes you think that they were not being discriminatory Louis ?How about that inconvenient part named 'context'? The patient was called a pig when he lowered his pants and started to urinate against the paramedic. After which they deemed him a possible security threat and recommended the police drive him to get medical assistence.

There were two nurses on the scene. Two paramedics. Police as well. And because one out of all these people flirted with nazism as a kid, this episode is deemed racist?

I don't know where you all live, but over here, medicine is a dangerous profession. You'll get spit at, cursed, threatened, attacked. Have a look in an emergency room on a Saturday night. People are tossed out back into the street or referred to the police one after the other. Alas, in this particular case, it seems the patient really couldn't help himself.


I think the problem is that somebody always needs to be guilty. 'Unfortunate string of events' doesn't cut it anymore. If society is shocked, then blood must flow. It is a modern-day witchhunt.
Innocent Norway doesn't want to accept yet that sometimes it is prudent not to take somebody in your ambulance with you. Even when the patient is non-white.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The other aspect to this case is Norway's anti-racist psychosis. Which creates a rather skewed image of the dramas that are really played out in Norwegian daily life.


I would recommend that you stay away from Norway if you're not milky white.I would recommend Norway to do something about its extreme racism and violence as well. With one caveat though: Norway has extremely low white against non-white violence and racism. And exceedingly high non-white against white violence and racism.

So I recommend Norway to grow up and to do something about its psychotic self-loathing racism. The Norwegian discrimination act reverses the burden of proof. A Norwegian is guilty of racial discrimination unless he can prove his innocence. Small wonder then that the ambulance drivers were found guilty of discrimination.
Let your anti-racist ombudsman condemn this instead:

Blind Norwegians are desperate. They rely a good deal on taxis for their transport. Most taxi-drivers are immigrants. However, being mostly Muslim, they often refuse to accept dogs in their taxis. Including guide dogs of the visually impaired.
Norway's blind are pulling their hairs out in despair. The brave ombudsman, the same heroine who witchhunted the two ambulance drivers for their refusal to transport security risk patients in their ambulance, remains silent about the daily, widespread practise of refusal to transport helpless blind people.

More fun facts? How about women trying to follow the old advice to take a taxi home to avoid sexual molest? You can guess what's coming: capital rise in taxi rapes (http://www.cphpost.dk/get/82747.html).

These are the problems with transportation that threaten Scandinavian societies. Norway does have pressing racist problems, but they do not involve ambulance drivers.

[Tribesman]

How about that inconvenient part named 'context'? The patient was called a pig when he lowered his pants and started to urinate against the paramedic. After which they deemed him a possible security threat and recommended the police drive him to get medical assistence.
Ah but Louis the transcript handed to the inquiry by the health authority was not what they called him when he urinated was it , it was the conversation recorded from the ambulance after the event :yes:
So what does that say about context eh ?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Ah but Louis the transcript handed to the inquiry by the health authority was not what they called him when he urinated was it , it was the conversation recorded from the ambulance after the event :yes:
So what does that say about context eh ?That the ambulance paramedics were still angry over the guy urinating over one of them? :idea2:


Also, I think we would all love to read this transcript if you happen to have a copy. :book:

[Alexanderofmacedon]

A bit late, but I have to agree with Louis VI the Fat.

[HoreTore]

Small wonder then that the ambulance drivers were found guilty of discrimination.

Are you high, Louis? They were found innocent of discrimination... Hm, come to think of it, I don't think the charge was discrimination at all, but malpractice.

Really Louis, you're rambling now.


That the ambulance paramedics were still angry over the guy urinating over one of them? :idea2:

I really can't understand someone getting upset because a guy with brain damage has no control over what he's doing. You take a job as an ambulance driver, and sorry, but you'll just have to swallow things like these. Especially when there are two nurses telling you what's up. Disregarding sound medical advice based on some übermenschen-principle really is as arrogant as you can get.

As I've said before, they're either flaming racists or utterly incompetent. Either way, I want them fired.

I'm very happy these guys weren't on the job when my friend got his head smashed in at 04.00 on a saturday night a few years back...

Another point is: They made a mistake. They blew it. They should've taken him. Anything else aside, what do you usually do when you screw up, and you know it? You apologize. Something these two didn't. Instead, they insisted they did everything correctly. Arrogant :daisy: .

[Lord Winter]

Horetore, do you have any other sources besides the attorny's press release cited in that article?

[Rhyfelwyr]

It would seem that general malpractice is the issue here, any man in that situation should have been treated. Although I would hardly say there is enough evidence to suggest racism was involved. It's certianly a possibility, and it's sickening if it's true, but shouldn't we be innocent until proven (or even appear likely to be) guilty?

Do all Norwegians blame racists and Christians for all the problems in their society?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Are you high, Louis? Nope. The only one under the influence of drugs was our security risk patient. :idea2:


Another point is: They made a mistake.This, the paramedics obviously did.

Which is quite different from what this saga has turned into: a year-long media hype of self-loathing, anti-racist frenzy. Did you enquire in the opening post about emigration because of medical misjudgements, or because you believe that non-white Norwegians are victims of brutal racism on a massive scale?

Below is the scene just before the ambulance took off. To be honest, he doesn't really look like much of a security threat. He looks dizzy and in obvious need of medical care. (Man with the backpack is the patient)

Of course this is a tragic case. The guy shouldn't have ended up in a coma. But let's not lose our sense of perspective.
A man, clearly under the influence of drugs, is involved in a fight in a park, he shows the tell-tale signs of belligerence to ambulance personnel, and they ask the police to drive him to the hospital. However, before the police, who are present at the scene, can take care of him, the patient's friends drive him off to first aid. (To keep him away from the police?) Once arrived at the first aid clinic, medical care resumes. And, fortunately, the patient recovered and is currently out and about again.

Why this should be cause for a year long media hype is a bit beyond me.


https://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5200/alititteljpg865708xww2.jpg

[Kralizec]

Ambulance drivers in the Netherlands suffer a lot of abuse these days (mostly from bystanders, though) so I'm not surprised to hear that the same goes for Norway. That being the case, you'd expect them to be used to and able to deal with provocative behaviour as long as it isn't violent.

Sadly, there certainly are people who lapse into Pavlov-rage when confronted with anything that can be construed as racism. But the fact that exaggerated anti-racist sentiments exist doesn't prove that these men weren't bloody racists themselves. Maybe the lawyer is overreaching by pulling the race card, but the transcript hinted at by Tribesman might suggest otherwise (speaking of wich, I'd like to read it too)

Even when leaving possible racism aside, it's hard to see this as an honest mistake of judgement by these men. I suspect that they're only left unpunished because qualified personel doesn't exactly grow on trees.

[Strike For The South]

Why do Europeans feel the need to hurt ambulance drivers?

[Fragony]

Why do Europeans feel the need to hurt ambulance drivers?

They don't.

Blind Norwegians are desperate. They rely a good deal on taxis for their transport. Most taxi-drivers are immigrants. However, being mostly Muslim, they often refuse to accept dogs in their taxis. Including guide dogs of the visually impaired.
Norway's blind are pulling their hairs out in despair. The brave ombudsman, the same heroine who witchhunted the two ambulance drivers for their refusal to transport security risk patients in their ambulance, remains silent about the daily, widespread practise of refusal to transport helpless blind people.

Where is the racism, Copenhagen is in Denmark by the way ;)

Sad case, racism, could be can't be proved, but they did a poor job, very unprofessional

[Proletariat]

Why do Europeans feel the need to hurt ambulance drivers?

Same reason ambulances are shot at in many US cities when driving through the worst urban areas. Apparently your typical murderous thugs on the streets can't tell the difference between an ambulance and a cop car's siren so they shoot at both just to be safe. When I was working in the ER at Walter Reed it would happen all the time to the EMTs driving ambulances through Anacostia.

[HoreTore]

Horetore, do you have any other sources besides the attorny's press release cited in that article?

Yes, about an average of one newspaper article per day for the last one and a half years... Not much in english though(as nobody but ourselves cares about us).


Nope. The only one under the influence of drugs was our security risk patient. :idea2:

This, the paramedics obviously did.

Which is quite different from what this saga has turned into: a year-long media hype of self-loathing, anti-racist frenzy. Did you enquire in the opening post about emigration because of medical misjudgements, or because you believe that non-white Norwegians are victims of brutal racism on a massive scale?

Below is the scene just before the ambulance took off. To be honest, he doesn't really look like much of a security threat. He looks dizzy and in obvious need of medical care. (Man with the backpack is the patient)

Of course this is a tragic case. The guy shouldn't have ended up in a coma. But let's not lose our sense of perspective.
A man, clearly under the influence of drugs, is involved in a fight in a park, he shows the tell-tale signs of belligerence to ambulance personnel, and they ask the police to drive him to the hospital. However, before the police, who are present at the scene, can take care of him, the patient's friends drive him off to first aid. (To keep him away from the police?) Once arrived at the first aid clinic, medical care resumes. And, fortunately, the patient recovered and is currently out and about again.

Why this should be cause for a year long media hype is a bit beyond me.


https://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5200/alititteljpg865708xww2.jpg

WHAT?!?!

Under the influence of drugs? What? He smoked pot the saturday before the incident. Now, I'm no fancy big-time biochemist, but I do believe that the influence of pot fades rather quickly, and one joint doesn't make you high for days... Also, involved in a fight? He was involved in a "punch and run", he never hit someone. He went to tell someone to behave(or something like that), and he got punched. How is that "involved in a fight"...?

Keep him away from the police? For what? They pressed charges...

This was established both by the courts and medical authorities. Ali Farah was definitely not high on that day. And smoking pot on a saturday night hardly makes you a criminal junkie.

And those present at the scene, except his girlfriend, didn't know him. However, two of them were nurses, and quite capable of giving first-aid, as well as telling the ambulance drivers that he was in urgent need of medical attention because he might have head trauma. And they did both. The ambulance drivers however, in their arrogance, didn't even check him out properly.

There's more to the story of what happened at the first aid clinic though: Once he arrived and the doctor checked him out, he immediately called an ambulance to get him to proper medical care. The ambulance driver, again, refused, but the doctor went mad and finally got them to pick him up.

All in all, arrogant and incompetent SOB's. And possibly racist, arrogant and incompetent SOB's. That they still have a job is an insult.

[Fragony]

All in all, arrogant and incompetent SOB's. And possibly racist, arrogant and incompetent SOB's. That they still have a job is an insult.

Agreed there. Pre-emptive equality strike is a bit much though, the fact this is such a big thing in Norway shows that there is really nothing to worry about. Crazy vikings, they all want to live in the most racist country.

[HoreTore]

Agreed there. Pre-emptive equality strike is a bit much though, the fact this is such a big thing in Norway shows that there is really nothing to worry about. Crazy vikings, they all want to live in the most racist country.

I'm not at all worried by our ambulance drivers(or any other trade) being full of incompetent bigots. I am, however, pissed that our system is utterly incapable of handling the situation when such a thing occurs. The administration at Ullevål hospital has shown themselves just as incapable in just about every situation in this case.

The initial reporting of this incident was completely justified. A wounded man ending up in a coma with the ambulance leaving? Of course that should be a front-page story. However, the case could've died there, if two things happened:

1. The ambulance drivers apologized.
2. The administration apologized.

But they didn't, and instead they only made things worse by being arrogant yet again.

[Fragony]

Apoligy seems in order, but are they to apoligize for leaving denying a man help, or are they to apoligize for denying a black man help. Seems like Norway has already made up it's mind about the what and why, getting the impression that they want this to be racism. Which it probably is.

[Tribesman]

Blind Norwegians are desperate. They rely a good deal on taxis for their transport. Most taxi-drivers are immigrants. However, being mostly Muslim, they often refuse to accept dogs in their taxis. Including guide dogs of the visually impaired.

Muslims muslims muslims:dizzy2: ...hey Frag most taxi drivers don't like dogs in their cabs and will refuse carriage . In the same way that most buses won't take dogs .

[HoreTore]

Apoligy seems in order, but are they to apoligize for leaving denying a man help, or are they to apoligize for denying a black man help. Seems like Norway has already made up it's mind about the what and why, getting the impression that they want this to be racism. Which it probably is.

Don't really care. But "apologizing for denying Ali Farah help" would be most appropriate, methinks.


Muslims muslims muslims:dizzy2: ...hey Frag most taxi drivers don't like dogs in their cabs and will refuse carriage . In the same way that most buses won't take dogs .

That was actually Louis' statement, tribes ~;)

[Fragony]

Muslims muslims muslims:dizzy2: ...hey Frag most taxi drivers don't like dogs in their cabs and will refuse carriage . In the same way that most buses won't take dogs .

Wasn't me wasn't wasn't me, your mind must be playing tricks on you Tribes

[Louis VI the Fat]

Yes, about an average of one newspaper article per day for the last one and a half years... And this is why I name this case a media hype. The paramedics have already been found guilty of both medical malfunction and of racism. Apologies have long since been issued. But the self-loathing and witchhunt won't stop, the case has become too much of a symbol of everything that's wrong with evil apartheid state Norway.


Of course, the story could, arguably with more reason, be presented as: 'Man sitting in park brutally beaten into coma by immigrant.* Public violence has gotten so out of hand that paramedics now always need to take their own safety into account. This is leading to tragic cases of patients not receiving adequate medical care.'

Here's the racism: Norwegian media and public opinion are to racist to describe this case and their society in these terms. Whatever happens, never mention anything negative about non-whites - all's well and there is no problem whatsoever. Instead, reserve all alarm over white racism.
Sleep well, and prepare yourself for ever more of these cases, Norway.


*If not out of sheer statistical chance, we can of course safely assume the attacker is an immigrant because if he were white, we would not have heard the end of it from HoreTore.~;)

[Vladimir]

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/00589/_h_yde_jpg_589117f.jpg

Seems like a rather toasty day for a Norwegian December. Oh wait, this is from, August of last year?!

What is this from? "Outrage of the Day" magazine?

[HoreTore]

Apologies have long since been issued.

No, they haven't, and that's the problem. Farah and one of the ambulance drivers, Schjenken, worked things out a few days ago. No apology from the administration yet. And that's the real problem here, arrogance.


http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/00589/_h_yde_jpg_589117f.jpg

Seems like a rather toasty day for a Norwegian December. Oh wait, this is from, August of last year?!

What is this from? "Outrage of the Day" magazine?

The final verdict in the case came a few days ago.

[Incongruous]

No, they haven't, and that's the problem. Farah and one of the ambulance drivers, Schjenken, worked things out a few days ago. No apology from the administration yet. And that's the real problem here, arrogance.


Oh really?

Reading this thread it seems that your problem is racism.

Christ, you want racism? Go to India, my Tamil friend has enough stories to give you a thousand angry threads.

[Yoyoma1910]

Oh really?

Reading this thread it seems that your problem is racism.

Christ, you want racism? Go to India, my Tamil friend has enough stories to give you a thousand angry threads.

Racism, unlike those who posses it, knows neither ethnic nor national boundaries.

[Fragony]

As it turns out it could be worse

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/332301/6adbd44e/snel_naar_het_ziekenhuis.html