View Full Version : Is Pontos impossible? Success stories wanted.
I recently saw someone asking for advice on how to win with Pontos, and then reading the description for Pontos in game saw that it was nigh-impossible i couldn't resist the challenge.
I started the game on M/M. I was going to assess the starting situation and then set the difficulty level accordingly. I see that i start with 1 province that has barely any population or infrastructure, 5000 minai that was going to disappear as soon as i hit end turn and an army dwarfed both in size and quality by the two other nations that start in the same area that i do. Seeing all this i decided that M/M was justified.
I started by taking the two cities which have your armies close by. The one to the north of your capital and the one on the northwest coast. The battles were easy, i didn't have any number of casualties worth mentioning, but what did hurt was the fact that i had to leave either a full unit behind or a family member to keep the order, and set taxes to low. I decided to leave the skirmisher units behind.
I thought about using the 5000 minai to hire mercenaries but there wasn't anything worth buying, and even if there was in the long run it wouldn't have been of much use to me.
So i marched on, combined my two armies together and took Ankyra. With its mine i began making a little money each turn, but with 10,000 debt there was still nothing i could do but sit and wait. That's when the grey monster started laying siege to my cities. So i look at my situation and it's so hopeless that even Hannibal or Alexander themselves would shy away from the avenue of military action.
I have 4 cities, not even lightly defended, just a unit of skirmishers to keep the peace, and 2 have a FM in them because i didn't want to lose my line infantry or slingers, i needed them for the army.
I have an army, if you can call it that, with 3 full strength units of levy phalangites and one 1/4 strength unit of phalangites, a half unit of slingers which were badly mauled in a previous battle, a half unit of medium cavalry which has been molested in every battle since i started yet has no experience and a king with a very large bodyguard and 3 bronze chevrons.
In the west of my humble kingdom i face 2 Seleukid cities which are pumping out medium phalanxes, heavy skirmishers, thureophoroi and mercenaries. That's where my army is, and i know i can never beat these alone. In the east of the kingdom my capital is under siege by a half stack of medium phalanxes, heavy skirmishers and thureophoroi, and i have no forces to do anything about them.
So, it's a foregone conclusion. I will lose, no question, so i won't even bother to continue.
Now, i want a success story, if anybody has one. Is it possible to get up on your feet in a Pontos campaign?
The problem you face is on that is hardcoded. Simply put, the AI will concentrate on you, considering the player the major threat. You will lose. A-S is too close to Pontus not to squish it. I don't know of anyone that's taken Pontos to victory.
Yeah i know it's a hardcoded problem that the AI will always attack the human, especially the grey monster who will ALWAYS attack you if you share a border with them.
As this is the case, do you not think it might be fair and justified to add two or three more units to Pontus' starting army, say an extra unit of slingers, an extra unit of levy phalangites and maybe 1 single unit of at least mid-range, decent infantry, as well as some extra population to the capital city and a little more infrastructure?
Even if you do this the faction is still going to go into debt immediately and it's still going to be a hell of a long time before you can recruit any new infantry, so it wouldn't be tipping the balance in your favour, merely giving you a fighting chance.
I don't know of anyone that's taken Pontos to victory.
I have. I conquered Ankyra and Sinope during the first few turns, and then Nikaia and waited until the Seleukids attacked me. Then I took Mazaka, Ipsos and Sardis (in that order). Then I rushed both Side and Tarsos from the Ptolemaioi and had a pretty good situation there.
Keep in mind that losing Amaseia is not the end of the world. If you use your spies right, you can quickly regain it.
gamegeek2
12-24-2008, 02:18
That's the thing with small factions vs. the Arche - don't be afraid to take them on and steal their cities - it weakens them. They are a monster that will keep returning for more, but take their cities, pump out troops, and eventually you will secure yourself with them. Tactical skill also helps. I learned this by playing Hayasadan and Saka Rauka, haven't played Pontos since I was a noob. Check my Saka AAR for an experience with the AS - THEY JUST DON'T GIVE UP!!!
Beefy187
12-24-2008, 02:58
I once tried bailing to the Bosphorus area. That worked quite nicely to get away from the nasty AS..
Just try and take Sinope on the first turn. Then slowly rally your left overs and migrate them to Bosphorus. Keep the capitol and Sinope so your income is steady.
Once your done, just start pumping out your quality troops if you succeed.
Did Pontus on H/M and got away with it. Took Sinope North of the capital. Then grabbed Nikaia and Byzantine. Byzantine was just weakened by a Macedonian attack. Then I took that city on the coast to the North. I left Tylis because I didn't want such a large boarder with the Macedonian crew. Thankfully that city was weak from a Getic attack so I grabbed that on the cheap too. After that I grabbed Ankyra and then skipped over Seleucid lands and got that Ptolemy city and sued for peace. At this point the Seleucid army came knocking and I just managed to fight them off. But after that I started my counter attack and I was set.
Interesting notes.
Macedonia, Getic and the Sarmations left me alone on the west despite the cities I bordered them with were poorly defended (one unit of tattered survivors). It was much later when they tried to bother me.
The Seleucid cities to my West made nothing and all the pressure was aimed at my capital.
I disbanded the near useless cavalry right at the start. You're fighting nothing but sieges at first, you don't need them.
I abused the heck out of my generals bodyguards. Even if they weren't needed in a fight I sent them in anyway until numbers thinned. It preserved my soldiers who aren't free.
That first battle against the Seleucid was fought with a tattered army but I had about 5 family members in the fight and they pretty much won it for me. Yeah I know, I'm cheap.
I ordered a road and trained more troops with my initial cash.
Nearly crippled myself with client rulers since they cost so much for those bodyguards upkeep.
Ptolemy stayed at war with the Seleucid until I attacked them, at which point they allied the next turn. I found it odd that the AI's took so long to buddy up against the flesh creature.
MButcher
12-24-2008, 04:13
In my Pontos campaign I took a different approach - I blitzed the AS right away. There are three reasons for this:
1. Your armies are perfectly positioned to take their cities immediately. If you send a spy to Mazaka then you can take that city on the first turn.
2. Their other two cities (Ipsos and Sardis) have mines already built in, meaning that you will get out of debt earlier.
3. If you take all their cities in Asia Minor immediately then the AS can only attack you from the east, which is good for bottle-necking.
You are going to find yourself at war with the AS eventually, so you might as well face them on your terms while your armies are at full strength.
Well i just started again and i have to say it's going better than before. I immediately took the 3 Seleukid cities to the south and south-west with very little casualties, and currently i'm making an attempt to conquer the Seleukid capital and sack it to offset the remaining 8k debt and hire some troops. The army i have to do that with is pretty decent. My faction heir has a bodyguard of 90 men, 4 units of phalangites, 1 medium cav and 1 skirmisher unit. It isn't much, but then again, neither is the Seleukid army in and around their capital. Victory is within reach!
I'm playing on M/M though, so if i pull through i may have to heavily houserule myself to cancel out my advantage of having a functional brain.
Kuningaz
12-24-2008, 04:32
Well I did it too, took the rebell cities north and west of the capital (including Byzantium and Ankyra), then combined my armies, threw the Seleukids out of Mikra Asia, rebuilt my army, headed east, crushed a Seleukid army, went south and took Antiocheia and Assyria. Soon after Ptolies and Seleukids allied (which usually kills you), but for some strange reason only the Ptolies used Phalangitai, the AS only sent crappy levies. Once I had mines in all of Mikra Asia I first conquered the Ptolies, then the AS until Babylonia using the hammer and anvil tactic (which is ridicoulusly effective, using those pontic FMs) Everything else was more or less easy:yes:
I tried that the first time, but once i'd taken Ankyra and the two other cities i barely had any army left to face the Seleukids, who had had time to build up a large army from their two cities which i would never defeat, and was 10 grand in debt.
This way seemed to do the trick just nicely. I kicked them out of their three cities straight away and instantly climbed out of debt, now making 3,000 a turn.
Don't know if it would have turned out this way on anything about M battle difficulty but i'm doing fine now. :smash:
Tyrfingr
12-24-2008, 09:49
I have a pontos campaign where Pontos has almost reached the size of the Byzantine Empire of Basil II, I only have to land in Italy.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d1/LocationByzantineEmpire_1025.PNG/250px-LocationByzantineEmpire_1025.PNG
Some rules though:
1) Minimize your casualties - every fallen soldier is a small victory for the AS
2) Disband your starting cavalry - it's expensive and useless anyway
3) Prepare not to be able build anything the 10-15 first years (except for occasional regional pacification)
4) Gain extra cash through diplomacy, selling map information, alliances and trade rights.
5) Always take a city on the second turn of the siege, otherwise precious time might be lost.
6) When you're going to take cities from the AS, do in this order: Ipsos, Sardis, Mazakata. By taking Ipsos & Sardis first, you pretty much eliminate the threat in the west for a couple of years.
The only thing on your list i did was minimize casualties... I kept all my starting units, took Mazaka on turn 2 with the use of a spy, then Ipsos, then Sardis. By that time i had money to start putting in governments and haven't had a turn since where i wasn't bilding something or recruiting new units. A few turns after Sardis i took Ankyra and now i pull in like 3,500 a turn while supporting 2 armies... 1 east and one west.
Like i said before, i don't know if things would have worked out as well if i'd played on H or VH campaign difficulty because i only put it on medium, but yeah.
Won't the addition of Pergamon in EB2 make Pontos even more nigh impossible?
I have a Pontos campaign (M/M) in which I have conquered all of Asia Minor, the east coast of the Mediterranean, and much of Egypt. I am currently fight with a huge Epeirote empire.
The way I did it:
1. With my starting armies, conquered Sinope, Nikaia and Byzantium. I was beginning to get out of debt at this point.
2. When the Seleukids inevitably attacked, I went west and took Sardis and Ipsos from them. By now, I was in the positive.
3. After this, I took Mazaka, then Trapezous and that city just south of it, which were owned by the Seleukids.
From this point on, your kingdom should be relatively secure, and in my case I secured a ceasefire and focused on the Ptolemies to the south, Galatia, and the other cities in Asia Minor.
One other thing: do not disband your starting armies. You will get in debt either way, but without armies you won't be able to get out of debt, because you will be stuck with just Amaseia.
satalexton
12-24-2008, 16:06
nah, it should be easier since AS has to deal with Pergamon...which means more breathing time for Pontos
Charles the hammer
12-24-2008, 17:27
pontos is difficult. i conquered northern turkey first. (mazaka sinope ankrya and nikia) then attacked the eastern settlements of AS in turkey. cutting off reinforcements. then i took the rest of their cities in turkey attacked Ptolemy using same strategy as above and conquered all of asia minor. I built full mines all settlements i could an finally started making money.( i was near bankruptcy in the early parts and after that most my money came from sacking. then i invaded greece from two points. byzantium and sparta. winning after years of hardship and times when i thought it was over. By the way galations rule!
Tyrfingr
12-24-2008, 20:13
Won't the addition of Pergamon in EB2 make Pontos even more nigh impossible?
Probably not, since some factions seems to take ages to make any progressions, Pontos is one of those. I have played a couple of campaigns in which the AI Pontos has not made a move (not even attacked Sinope) for 60 years!
Started a new game and I followed my last strategy but things went better than expected with the exception i wasn't able to grab the West coast of the Black Sea. When the Silver Death came they seemed to be going westward so since my army was in that area so did I. At this point my army was 4 units of Native pikemen with another reasonable strength in tow. 1 native spearmen (yet to fight) and my slingers. I grabbed Sardis and the town with no wall just North East of it. Thing about Sardis is that it has a 20,000K unique building. I knocked it down and got out of debt instantly and was left with 5K spending money. I usually don't do that but I made the exception.
They attacked my capital with a 4 unit army. I had a family member and 2 pikeman units I had just trained. Won the battle just. I took the time to grab the yellows town and then I came face to face with the silvers main army. It was the moment of truth. my army of 8 units Vs the enemy 15 unit stack of mercs. But they decided to ignore me and attack the rebel city of Ankyra which by this point had a half stack guarding it. Their attack failed and they lost most of their troops. They hired more mercs and brought up more men but if I can bring my troops together I should be able to handle them.
Remember this is on H/M
I was so tempted to knock down that 20k building in Sardis when i was 10k in debt, but i ended the turn and saw i was making 2 or 3 grand a turn and decided to leave it.
I'm thinking of getting the campaign map difficulty changer mod now that i'm basically never going to lose any land and put it up to hard or very hard difficulty, i feel as though i'm cheating having it on medium now that i'm pulling 5k a turn and have two large armies.
My aged faction leader has gone a bit mad in his old age. He's centralized his kingdom with the capital at Ankyra, i'm creating units with 240 men in them from every city and disbanding them there, resulting in a huge multicultural city with very advanced infrastucture. It's where all new generals go to train for their future as governors and generals.
It's fun to roleplay. :smash:
Tyrfingr
12-25-2008, 12:37
Oh yeah, one more thing: Sardis, Ipsos & Ancyra should preferably not be conquered before the AI has built mines there, so you won't have to.
V.T. Marvin
12-25-2008, 15:45
Now, i want a success story, if anybody has one. Is it possible to get up on your feet in a Pontos campaign?
See the AAR "Pontus-Always outnumbered never outmatched" in my signature - it is from EB 0.81v2 and unfinished - but it shows the begining of the campaign whichis lwys the most interesting part. Yes, winning s Pontos is possible!
I have played as Pontos again in 1.1 (this time on H/H) and again it was a faantastic, very interesting campaign which was still challenging until the last stage. I abandoned it just four provinces awy from Victory conditions.
Play Pontos - it is fun!!!
I didn't want to bump that thead, but I really enjoyed it. Good format, and a nice mix of homour/roleplaying made it very enjoyable, although it couold have been longer.
StellarW
03-05-2009, 22:17
Hi,
By no means impossible and in fact the first campaign i took on in EB. Since Vannila were not challenging enough i made sure to do my Pontus on VH/VH. Admittedly i used pretty much all the game had to offer ( including any form of horse archer i could find) and still had a slow start while figuring out some things about RTW i should have picked up long ago. As it turned out i met Karthadastim in the Balkans and had a stand up fight which seemingly lasted for ever until i could secure my last required provinces there in 172 BC.
I could bore you all with how i started but frankly it was a messy affair and good starting strategies has been outlined by the earlier posters.
Stellar
Edit: So where's your badge mister?
the man with no name
03-05-2009, 22:28
Y u necro-post? Stop it.
V.T. Marvin
03-06-2009, 09:02
Hey, what is so wrong about reviving old threads anyway? I now that there is a certain reluctance to bump older threads, but I really cannot understand why. To me it seems much better than to start a new thread, because usually much of the information needed was already said before and thus reviving older theads should be more convenient to reader and help to avoid unnecessary repetition and cluttering of the server...
So, please, enlighten me if my reasoning is wrong. :shrug:
Ignopotens
03-06-2009, 09:10
I agree with you, Marvin. I always see people freaking out about "Thread Necromancy" but they also usually jump on people who post the same question that's been asked before. I don't see what's wrong with adding to an older discussion, provided the original thread is still relevant.
StellarW
03-06-2009, 10:05
And that commentary for a thread that is only a few month old! Perhaps i should say 'man with no ex gf's that were willing to hook up a few months after'? Sometimes you just have to wonder!
But perhaps i am being unfair so 'the man with no name' should feel free to expound on why reviving a apparently topical thread to , if admittedly to talk about myself, add another 'success story' is such a bad thing....
In my defense i do not often start threads in anything but bug forums on gaming sites so that should count too!.
Stellar
PS. Is anyone aware of a thread in the AAR section where i can see a victory screenshot, the completion date and the house rules used in that given EB campaign?
Thanks
lionhard
03-14-2009, 19:07
Id like to see a Screen shot or proof of any 1 who has completed a camaign with pontus on V/H , V/H hayasdan is easy cas u just keep requesting ceasefire from the selucids everytime they attack u, makes it boring and unrealistic :(
A Very Super Market
03-15-2009, 00:32
Bltizing makes any faction possible. I believe Fluvius has conquered the Med and Asia Minor in the year 242 already. Its quite easy to take advantage of the stupid AI.
lionhard
03-15-2009, 15:19
Is it not possible to edit the AI so it is not stupid and actually suits a game as well made as EB?
Lysimachos
03-15-2009, 15:23
Is it not possible to edit the AI so it is not stupid and actually suits a game as well made as EB?
Modding the AI is not possible in RTW . However, I think it is possible in M2TW, so maybe we are more lucky with EB II.
Fluvius Camillus
03-15-2009, 15:34
Bltizing makes any faction possible. I believe Fluvius has conquered the Med and Asia Minor in the year 242 already. Its quite easy to take advantage of the stupid AI.
Yes thats right super market:laugh4:
I think I already crossed the point where I could lose, now I only have to make a choice which direction to conquer first..:juggle2:
https://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt22/Fluvius_Camillus/pontikoi.jpg?t=1237392188
:laugh4:
Bltizing makes any faction possible. I believe Fluvius has conquered the Med and Asia Minor in the year 242 already. Its quite easy to take advantage of the stupid AI.
From what i've seen you only need to Blitz Mazaka and Ipsos to get a good start. Also early on send a Diplomat to the Ptolmaioi, since they want peace with you more then Side.
After Mazaka and Ipsos are yours, the Grey Death, at least in my game, gets alot more receptive to peace and you can drastically slow down expansion to your own pace.
(Also in before necro whining)
Prussian to the Iron
03-25-2009, 17:38
if you guys want ill start a pontos campaign and post my progress. i bet i could win on VH/VH
I'm actually doing quite well in my Pontos campaign. It's only about 250 BC but it definitely seems that Pontos is a good deal easier than the Sakae or Hai, at least from my experiences. On the second turn I conquered Mazaka and Sinope, moved over to Byzantion and held out against the Seleukids for about 20 years while waiting for my Mazaka and Byzantion mines to finish (and to save up cash to by them). Recently, I took Nikaea. Surprisingly, I'm worried more about the Sarmations than the Seleukids, the Sarmatians control all provinces around the Black sea except for Sinope, Nikaea and Byzantion (all of which I control), and are currently raping Getai and Hayasdan. Fortunately for me Seleukos seems preoccupied eating up Ptolemy, which has left me an opening in Asia-minor (which I will ruthlessly exploit). Pontos is definitely possible, but difficult as you have to be extremely bold and timid at the same time. I'm playing it on VH/M btw...
I have got Pontos to a winning position on VH/H, not as difficult as Hai or Sarmatians as noted.
I played General-cam and house rules (like no more than 4 foot-missile troops and faction typical stacks (like my semi-independent Galatians)) which made it fist-pumping good..until I hit a repeating CTD linked to multiple battles at turn-end (curses!).
You definitely need few breaks, but it is eminently do-able. Disband the cav (FM's are enough), take the coastal cities, venture west and watch the AS like a hawk.
Jebivjetar
04-08-2009, 10:48
The best way to begin With Potos, from my expirience is next:
1) declare war on AS and take their cities in Asia Minor immediately (Mazaka, then Sadris)
2) then, take all eleutheroi cities in AM, except Halicarnass, because Ptolies will declare war against you when you attack it. My order was: Ancyra, Sinope, Byzantion, Nikaia, Pergamon)
3) When almost all the rebel cities in AM are yours (except Halicarnass), boost up your economy and army and wait until Ptolies lay siege on Halicarnass: in my case they had full stack in siege, but were beaten there: then attack them immediately: lay siege to Side and take it next in turn. Tarsos is next.
4) Dont be modest: take Mytilena from Macedonians: sooner or later they will attack you because they want Pergamon, which now yours)
at this moment you have a very, very good position. Keep boosting your economy and army and wait for good moment to conquer forward. Trapezus and Ani-Kamah are easy to be taken.
dont disband your calvary on the start: they will do a good job. In my case i would be beatten when attacking Ancyra, because there were those wild-men infantry and EVERY unit you can have will be needed when fighting there: trust me, as i have lost many, many soldiers in there, and the city was taken on big cost.
Well, by now you have Asia Minor: do not expand east and west at the same time, thats my opinion: youll have a lot of work with AS and Ptolies: they wont let you in peace. Make alliances with Macs/ Epeiros/ Getai (but have a good deffence in Byzantion anyway... because you never know ;-) ) and kick some AS and Ptolies butts!
In my game (its around 120BC) i have Alexandria, Memphis, Babylon and Seleukeia as my borders with AS and Ptolemaioi, and i still didnt go further then Byzantion: right now im building some good armies and i will attack Getai.
(again, dont lough on my bad englist :clown:)
:smash:
Fluvius Camillus
04-08-2009, 19:19
The best way to begin With Potos, from my expirience is next:
1) declare war on AS and take their cities in Asia Minor immediately (Mazaka, then Sadris)
2) then, take all eleutheroi cities in AM, except Halicarnass, because Ptolies will declare war against you when you attack it. My order was: Ancyra, Sinope, Byzantion, Nikaia, Pergamon)
3) When almost all the rebel cities in AM are yours (except Halicarnass), boost up your economy and army and wait until Ptolies lay siege on Halicarnass: in my case they had full stack in siege, but were beaten there: then attack them immediately: lay siege to Side and take it next in turn. Tarsos is next.
4) Dont be modest: take Mytilena from Macedonians: sooner or later they will attack you because they want Pergamon, which now yours)
at this moment you have a very, very good position. Keep boosting your economy and army and wait for good moment to conquer forward. Trapezus and Ani-Kamah are easy to be taken.
dont disband your calvary on the start: they will do a good job. In my case i would be beatten when attacking Ancyra, because there were those wild-men infantry and EVERY unit you can have will be needed when fighting there: trust me, as i have lost many, many soldiers in there, and the city was taken on big cost.
Well, by now you have Asia Minor: do not expand east and west at the same time, thats my opinion: youll have a lot of work with AS and Ptolies: they wont let you in peace. Make alliances with Macs/ Epeiros/ Getai (but have a good deffence in Byzantion anyway... because you never know ;-) ) and kick some AS and Ptolies butts!
In my game (its around 120BC) i have Alexandria, Memphis, Babylon and Seleukeia as my borders with AS and Ptolemaioi, and i still didnt go further then Byzantion: right now im building some good armies and i will attack Getai.
(again, dont lough on my bad englist :clown:)
:smash:
I did the opposite.
Firstly I never rely on allies to defend a border, allies attack you if they are next to you. (I didnt declare the war on AS right away though). Later on I took large amounts of mercenaries, more reason recruiting them was to deny them from the enemy rather than need.
I did not declare war on the AS immediately, those nice people really do a good job killing the wild men in Ancyra.:clown:
Also I must admit I had some luck, because I did not attack the AS right away, the AS and the ptolies trashed each other in a way that they both had problems fielding fullstacks.
I dont disband units, I used the smaller western army to take Side (roleplay diplomacy, cash and less upkeep). I used my eastern army to starve Ani kamah, as assaulting would take too many casualties with my minor army. Then on to Kotais, there I starved it too. The remainder of troops defeated the Hayasdan by fighting in front of their only city. Inside I found the Hayasdan were so nice to build some large barracks for me. Finally I took Mtskheta (north of Armavir). From then on all my troops were too small too conquer any more towns, I was 30.000 in debt, but these cities produced 1000 profit per season.
I used a FM and two depleted groups of pantodapoi to build forts in the Caucasian passes, to block the Sauromatae.
After I came out of debt I retrained and recruited phalanx in Armavir and took Trapezous. Then the unavoidable happened, AS attacked me, easily repelled and took Mazaka. Then I hastened to take the western AM Seleucid cities and took KH halicarnassus (Whom I was at war with). I then focused on taking Tarsos and Pergamum, from Tarsos to Antioch made my supremacy complete. I mopped up the final Rebbelious AM cities and then took Byzantion from Epeiros, killing their king Ptolemaios. Another army took Kypros, Rhodes and Krete. The rebel city taking army was done, and went to conquer the Bosphoran cities.
Defeating the Epeirotes, AS, KH and Ptolies proved my supremacy in the surrounding regions. KH almost completely took out my ally Makedon, which had me a threat less and a nice excuse to conquer mainland KH Greece.
In the east the levant and Mesopotamia were taken, the two largest Diadochi were unable to assemble troops fast enough to stop me.
ATM I conquered the Ptolemaic power bases, leaving their final cities soft targets, same goes for AS. Eastern border consisting of Charax - Susa - Ectabana.
In the west I am fighting the Epeirote homeland with my somewhat depleted army in Greece, still strong enough for the task. Probably Makedonia will follow to pacify the country.
There was my story!:2thumbsup:
Masterth
06-02-2009, 23:01
I recently saw someone asking for advice on how to win with Pontos, and then reading the description for Pontos in game saw that it was nigh-impossible i couldn't resist the challenge.
I started the game on M/M. I was going to assess the starting situation and then set the difficulty level accordingly. I see that i start with 1 province that has barely any population or infrastructure, 5000 minai that was going to disappear as soon as i hit end turn and an army dwarfed both in size and quality by the two other nations that start in the same area that i do. Seeing all this i decided that M/M was justified.
I started by taking the two cities which have your armies close by. The one to the north of your capital and the one on the northwest coast. The battles were easy, i didn't have any number of casualties worth mentioning, but what did hurt was the fact that i had to leave either a full unit behind or a family member to keep the order, and set taxes to low. I decided to leave the skirmisher units behind.
I thought about using the 5000 minai to hire mercenaries but there wasn't anything worth buying, and even if there was in the long run it wouldn't have been of much use to me.
So i marched on, combined my two armies together and took Ankyra. With its mine i began making a little money each turn, but with 10,000 debt there was still nothing i could do but sit and wait. That's when the grey monster started laying siege to my cities. So i look at my situation and it's so hopeless that even Hannibal or Alexander themselves would shy away from the avenue of military action.
I have 4 cities, not even lightly defended, just a unit of skirmishers to keep the peace, and 2 have a FM in them because i didn't want to lose my line infantry or slingers, i needed them for the army.
I have an army, if you can call it that, with 3 full strength units of levy phalangites and one 1/4 strength unit of phalangites, a half unit of slingers which were badly mauled in a previous battle, a half unit of medium cavalry which has been molested in every battle since i started yet has no experience and a king with a very large bodyguard and 3 bronze chevrons.
In the west of my humble kingdom i face 2 Seleukid cities which are pumping out medium phalanxes, heavy skirmishers, thureophoroi and mercenaries. That's where my army is, and i know i can never beat these alone. In the east of the kingdom my capital is under siege by a half stack of medium phalanxes, heavy skirmishers and thureophoroi, and i have no forces to do anything about them.
So, it's a foregone conclusion. I will lose, no question, so i won't even bother to continue.
Now, i want a success story, if anybody has one. Is it possible to get up on your feet in a Pontos campaign?
I have done it on M/M. Am trying to do it at the moment on VH/VH. Totally ridiculous though, M/M is ok, you just need excellent generalship and a lot of spies!
I just started a VH/M Pontos campaign with the advice from this thread and it's gone quite well. Started by taking Sinope but suffered some losses. Traded my Seleucid alliance for one with Ptolemy and kicked the former out of Asia minor after a couple tough battles. Since I've slowly been spreading across the peninsula, and finally just took Crimea and the Greece, the latter of which was controlled by Macedonia, who were at war with my ally Epiros.
Does anybody have any standard armies they use as Pontos? I started with lots of of the weak native spearmen backed by Caucasian archers from Mazaka, moving to native phalangites backed by archers and Galatian auxilaries.
I'm finally getting a bit more variety in the types of troops I can hire, noticed Pontos' "elite" phalangites are quite weak and absurdly expensive, and they're rather low both in line and elite troops... it's been an interesting challenge.
MerlinusCDXX
06-04-2009, 00:21
My Pontic armies consist mostly of regional Celts (Tindanotae), regional Hoplitai, Celto-Hellenic Hoplitai, and Thraikioi Prodromoi in the West/Asia Minor. In the east I use Pantodapoi Phalangitai and Khuveshavagan (Kataphraktoi-lite) for Archers, I stick with the Caucasians or use the cheap Persians in the East.
I definitely like to use a lot of the regional Galatian troops, hadn't really used the Celtic hoplites much after having some bad luck with them in an Epiros campaign...maybe I should give them another look.
I didn't even know I'd get some kind of Cataphract unit. Is it available further to the east of Asia Minor?
MerlinusCDXX
06-04-2009, 00:31
I definitely like to use a lot of the regional Galatian troops, hadn't really used the Celtic hoplites much after having some bad luck with them in an Epiros campaign...maybe I should give them another look.
I didn't even know I'd get some kind of Cataphract unit. Is it available further to the east of Asia Minor?
It's not a real Kataphract, but they do have frontal horse armor. They are available in Karkathiokerta and points east. They are about the equal of Hetairoi, a damn sight better than any of the other non-FM cav Pontos gets. And, yeah, the Celto-Hellenikoi look weak when you're playing Epeiros, 'cause the Epeirotes can come up with better infantry pretty easily, but as Pontos, they're a good alternative to Pontikoi Thorakitai, which just suck for some reason.
Interesting, looking at one of the old Pontos AARs it looks like they can recruit some kind of heavy archer in Syria as well. I've been expanding the wrong direction. :laugh4:
I'm going to give the Celto-Hellenic Hoplitai another look, I always thought they had a neat concept.
Just started being able to recruit the Thorakitai, they're not so great? I've had good luck with the heavy Galatian spearmen despite hearing negative things about them here before, but as you mentioned Pontos does not have the number or level of elite infantry of some of the Hellenic factions in the area, so it may be making them look better.
Interesting, looking at one of the old Pontos AARs it looks like they can recruit some kind of heavy archer in Syria as well. I've been expanding the wrong direction. :laugh4:
I'm going to give the Celto-Hellenic Hoplitai another look, I always thought they had a neat concept.
Just started being able to recruit the Thorakitai, they're not so great? I've had good luck with the heavy Galatian spearmen despite hearing negative things about them here before, but as you mentioned Pontos does not have the number or level of elite infantry of some of the Hellenic factions in the area, so it may be making them look better.
Never used the Celto-Hellenes, just seem like an abomination but I must try them (once i conclude my current Casse-Mess).
Pontic Thorakitai did not overly impress me but the Galatian spears were satisfactory to my needs IIRC. Nothing wrong with a line up of classical hoplites either, or even basic phalangites, providing you can get them a few chevrons.
Celto-Hellenic hoplites are best used as reserve troops on the flanks of your phalanx to wrap around the enemy. The enemy will usually try to attck the units on the immediate flank of a phalanx and the celto-Hellenes have enough holding power to force them in towards the center where they get mowed down. My current Pontus campaign is at 245 BC and I own almost all of Anatolia and have forced peace with AS and Ptolies.
MerlinusCDXX
06-04-2009, 08:14
My Pontic armies consist mostly of regional Celts (Tindanotae), regional Hoplitai, Celto-Hellenic Hoplitai, and Thraikioi Prodromoi in the West/Asia Minor. In the east I use Pantodapoi Phalangitai and Khuveshavagan (Kataphraktoi-lite) for Archers, I stick with the Caucasians or use the cheap Persians in the East.
Celto-Hellenic hoplites are best used as reserve troops on the flanks of your phalanx to wrap around the enemy. The enemy will usually try to attck the units on the immediate flank of a phalanx and the celto-Hellenes have enough holding power to force them in towards the center where they get mowed down. My current Pontus campaign is at 245 BC and I own almost all of Anatolia and have forced peace with AS and Ptolies.
Yeah, I use the Celto-Hellenics the same way Tanit does, with the regular Hoplitai just on the inside of them, with a phalangitai or 2 in the center (I don't usually bother with the underpowered and overpriced elite phalanx-I just use the plain old levies). My right flank assault force is the Galatians (tindanotae and the Galatian spears), usually sent after generals or other scary cavalry (tindanotae get sent after other elites when they are done) My current Pontos Campaign H/M 172 BC has me in a border war with the Romani over N Italy and ready to take the 3 settlements on the N Black sea rim from the Sauromatae, the AS is a buffer state with the Ptolemaioi (allies), Hayasdan lost their homelands to Pahlava, but took some of the steppe, and I mounted a joint punitive expedition with the AS against the Ptolemaioi and gave the captured lands to the Saba (hey, we all gotta do our part to eradicate the yellow fever). Getai are gone, Maks have Crete, KH have Rhodes, and Epeiros is now just the Megale Hellas in Italy (they were kicked out by the Maks and make a great ally against Rome) , and I hope to the gods that Pahlava plays nice (they own all the former AS East of me, which is everything East of Seleukeia). If you go into Europe with Pontos, Tylis is a must have for the variety of great Celtic and Thraikioi regionals
Gotten quite a bit further in the game (220s) and things are going well. I actually have started writing for an aar with Pontos, might start posting it in the next couple days...
Troop choices have been expanding considerably with higher regional MICs in my Anatolian provinces plus the Crimea. The Celtic hoplites have been great for defending the flanks of my phalangitai and the Klerouchoi (sp?) are just enough cheaper than Pontos' "elite" phalangites that I can base armies around them, when I'm not basing them around Galatian or other regionals. It's fun building armies around generals (phalangitai and greek regionals for Hellenic generals, Galatians for Galatian generals, etc.).
Built a horsearcher army in the Crimea to help conquer Epeiros but lost most of them in a forest battle where I mistakenly thought I could still win because I outnumbered them. :oops: I never was great with HAs...
I have a heck of a time keeping my Skythian semi Cataphracts from dying in droves despite being careful with them, hopefully I have better luck with the proper Pontic Cataphract lites.
Thanks for all the help. This has been one of my best campaigns. It's fun playing a faction that doesn't have a lot of uber troops, and not being able to retrain many of my core units all over my empire has made logistics more challenging.
One last question, does Pontos get anything from the march of time? The official EB website shows a "late" bodyguard. Rome's been losing a lot of ground to Carthage, I'll have to help them if I need them to get a huge city...
I really like playing as Pontos
MerlinusCDXX
06-08-2009, 00:54
Yes, you do get a late bodyguard for Pontos with the March of Time, but, IMO, the early bodyguards are a bit better. The late BG, IIRC, are equivalent to the Greek merc general, while the early BG are a version of the Khuveshavagan (Cataphract lite that I mentioned earlier).
Fired up a Pontos campaign (VH/M) myself, came close to elimination in the first few turns at the hands of AS but am now stabilized and asserting control over Anatolia. Ancyra is actually very easy to take, just build a bunch of Caucasian Archers from a level one MIC in Mazaka and shred the shirtless bastards. I think the most difficult aspect of Pontos is enduring those cacaphonous war horns every time you fight a battle.
... It's fun building armies around generals (phalangitai and greek regionals for Hellenic generals, Galatians for Galatian generals, etc.)....
I'm a big fan of that idea too. Having a spirited eastern general running a mixed force next to an old fashioned Hellenic city state army and fighting them in different styles gives great flavour to a campaign. I love the idea you recruited a HA army to take on Epiros and they got wasted, its the sort of thing you might read in Polybius:
"..the next year the Pontian king sent for his Skythian allies who raised a great force and marched against the Epirotes, but came to grief in the unfamiliar forests of Thrace. I only mention this to show the folly of relying on Barbarians who are fearsome in their own lands, but are easily disconcerted by unfamiliar terrain..."
chenkai11
06-11-2009, 05:00
Id like to see a Screen shot or proof of any 1 who has completed a camaign with pontus on V/H , V/H hayasdan is easy cas u just keep requesting ceasefire from the selucids everytime they attack u, makes it boring and unrealistic :(
They do? Then the AS must really hate me when I played Hayasdan.
That reminds me I've been sitting on chapter one of an aar for my Pontos game. I'll have to post it as soon as I finish one for another ongoing campaign I have going... not sure I'll be able to come up with anything as good as what you just posted, though. :clown:
The Skythian army was eventually reinforced up to moderate strength and won a few battles, but generally took a backseat to one of my Hellenic armies that finished up the war. We'll see if the Skythians' star rises again in the Empire of Pontos.
I'm a big fan of that idea too. Having a spirited eastern general running a mixed force next to an old fashioned Hellenic city state army and fighting them in different styles gives great flavour to a campaign. I love the idea you recruited a HA army to take on Epiros and they got wasted, its the sort of thing you might read in Polybius:
"..the next year the Pontian king sent for his Skythian allies who raised a great force and marched against the Epirotes, but came to grief in the unfamiliar forests of Thrace. I only mention this to show the folly of relying on Barbarians who are fearsome in their own lands, but are easily disconcerted by unfamiliar terrain..."
What's the deal with Pontos not being able to recruit factional troops in half its homeland provinces? I have a lot of homeland govs in Anatolia and half of them still can't produce any factional troops with level 2 or 3 MICs. Is there even a reason for that?
I can't really say as to the reason but I find it best to build level 4 govs in the majority of Anatolia at first. Build up the MICs, which will give a lot of good Greek units (as well as Celtic in Ankara and some Thraician units in the northwest). Klerouchoi Phalangitai are available in a few settlements with high level native MICs. I know they're not great if you're the Sleucids or Ptolemies but as Pontos they offer about the same stats as their "elite" phalangitai and are about 200 mnai cheaper...
There are a few settlements you can get higher level factional troops from in Anatolia although it takes some patience (first couple of levels of your factional MIC will get nothing).
What little territory I've moved eastward has tended to have more factional troops, especially the eastern units at the lower MIC levels (and semi-Cataphracts at the higher as I've learned in this thread).
What's the deal with Pontos not being able to recruit factional troops in half its homeland provinces? I have a lot of homeland govs in Anatolia and half of them still can't produce any factional troops with level 2 or 3 MICs. Is there even a reason for that?
MerlinusCDXX
06-18-2009, 01:10
I was a bit inaccurate with my take on the Pontic unit roster. It appears that the Khuveshavagan (semi-cataphract cavalry) are only available as (early) bodyguards for Pontos and are not recruitable. Perhaps I was confusing them for Hayasdan, who do get the recruitable version. Pontos does get lonchphoroi hippeis in their regional MIC in Hellenistic regions though, and they are a decent heavy cavalry choice. Again, sorry if my post seemed misleading in any way. Another good cavalry choice for Pontos are the Skuda Uzaedette (sp?), the Skythian noble cavalry, though their AoR is quite small, and only available north of the Black sea.
Fluvius Camillus
06-19-2009, 17:18
I was a bit inaccurate with my take on the Pontic unit roster. It appears that the Khuveshavagan (semi-cataphract cavalry) are only available as (early) bodyguards for Pontos and are not recruitable. Perhaps I was confusing them for Hayasdan, who do get the recruitable version. Pontos does get lonchphoroi hippeis in their regional MIC in Hellenistic regions though, and they are a decent heavy cavalry choice. Again, sorry if my post seemed misleading in any way. Another good cavalry choice for Pontos are the Skuda Uzaedette (sp?), the Skythian noble cavalry, though their AoR is quite small, and only available north of the Black sea.
Khuveshagan are recruitable as Pontos in the Armenian lands.... Experiencing it myself and the recruitment viewer can help:yes:
~Fluvius
MerlinusCDXX
06-20-2009, 01:15
I must have an old RV...it's been a long time since my last go at Pontos, so I forget stuff.
machinor
06-20-2009, 13:29
I'm a big fan of that idea too. Having a spirited eastern general running a mixed force next to an old fashioned Hellenic city state army and fighting them in different styles gives great flavour to a campaign. I love the idea you recruited a HA army to take on Epiros and they got wasted, its the sort of thing you might read in Polybius:
"..the next year the Pontian king sent for his Skythian allies who raised a great force and marched against the Epirotes, but came to grief in the unfamiliar forests of Thrace. I only mention this to show the folly of relying on Barbarians who are fearsome in their own lands, but are easily disconcerted by unfamiliar terrain..."
Dude, you should totally write an AAR in Polybius' style. :2thumbsup:
When u play with Pontus u can get a ceasefire with Ptolemaio and they gonna pay u 12.5k Mnari ! But remind dont take Mazakaa in the first round ( works if u get the spy inside the town) because u need it as a border between u and Ptolemaio otherwhise they dont gonna accept ! If u attack and capture Mazaka the next rounds u can also get ceasefire again with AS and they gonna pay 7.5 Mnari ( maybe not in the same round but 2 rounds later) sometimes also in the same round If u attack AS some rounds later again for example in Antiocheia to make some quick money from looting and destroying the city ! u have the chance that the AS gonna ask u for a ceasefire again ! If u offer them Antiocheia as a gift and ask for 5k they offer an alliance! From looting Antiocheia and destroying the builldings u gonna get another 18k boost but dont destroy the blacksmith in the first round because u can upgrade your army there ! In the beginning i allways dispand some troops and i have just the 6 phalanx men left ! U still have some Mnari left now so build some foreign barracks in Mazaka to get some caucasian archers and a mine that gonna give u some income ! Now move your 6 phalanx men back to your capital an retrain them and train about 6 caucasian archers if u stay with the goverment thats is in Mazakaa the gonna have 2 valour allready ! Now u have an army consits of 6phalanx pikemen and 6 archers leave 2 phalanx men and 2 archers in Mazakaa the AS gonna attack there soon and move the rest (4 phalanx men and 4 archers ) to attack Sinope or directly to Pergamon (there is a mine allready ) but take care of the rebbell army near Pergamon !!!
The army consits of 4 Phalanx men and 4 archers is good enough to get all rebell citys near to you!
If u feel secure in Mazaka move the army out and attack with all your troops the 2 AS cities in theWest (Ipsos and Sardis)to get rid of the danger and there are also mines inside !
If u dispand some troops and u just stay with your Phalanx men u gonna have a positive income after u took Antiocheia . Maybe stay there2-3 rounds to get some more money but i allways gave Antiocheia back to the AS because the citiy was burned down and i thought it would be the best to get out of the Sandwich between Ptolemaio and AS ! After u upgradet your Phalax men in Antiocheia also destroy the blacksmith
kaptainplanet
01-27-2010, 02:34
I have played 3 campaings with pontus, ause i love them and my pc always crashes sooner or later with EB (grrrrrrrrrrr), but it lasts long enought to conquer all asia minor and move beyond. In my last one i had conquered asia minor, hayasdan and syria, and i had 3 full stacks: one going at babylonia, one attaking israel, and the other at the north, falling on the AS like a beast from that big lake i cant remember its name, the one on the right of the hayasdans.
i was surprised to read that AS attacks pontus, it has never attacked me!!!!!! in 3 games!!!
well, how i do it, is i start by reqruiting and conquering the eleftheroi towns at the northern asia minor, then i wait and mnai by mnai i buid a few roads and markets to boost trade, i wai and i wait more and more and then i build a few mines, then i make a small army and retrain and go for byzandium and the rest free towns at the coast of Mikra Asia, and then i make 2 armies of Hoplites, and i blietz the AP, and after i do that i retrain them , put my initian Pontus army guarding my eastern front, and with 3 Hoplite armies i blitz the Ptolemies. Then, I am the monarch of all asia minor, plus Mytiline so i can go at summer and subathe nude :DDD, and i concentrate on economy, mines, et. Mines are crucial and my then u have like 5 towns with mines, so i build them before i move further. Then it is time to easily crash the Armenians, make my chariots and ride to slash everyone in my path:DDD
at first i am sweaty and at the verge of heart attack in fear of an AS attack, but it never happens at my games, so if u play it patiently and nice, u quicklu become an economical miracle!!
i cant wait to go home, upgrade my pc so it doesnt crash, and play as Pontus again!!!
FriendlyFire
02-04-2010, 02:06
How to have an (unintentionally) slow game as Pontos, based on my current campaign :)
Don't find this thread until you're several years into your campaign, and it's too late to blitz Arche Seleukia (oops)
Sell into slavery the inhabitants of the first towns that you capture, in a desperate attempt to pay off your debts (double oops - see later!)
Note that this is on M/M, using the fix for BI.exe and its updated historical targets for the AI. I have the force-diplomacy mod installed and was prepared to use it in the early game if the AI did something stupid (like declaring war because one of their admirals decided to blockade a port), but didn't need to.
The three cities that my first army took were Sinope, Trapezous, and Ankyra. That left me with a nice compact empire and just two cities bordering the AS (Amaseia and Ankyra), each of which I garrisoned with two battered phalangites, skirmishers, and a family member. Those garrisons seemed to act as an effective deterrent, and after I starved out the last city in 264 BC I started making ~1,000 a turn and could begin to pay off my ~17,000 debt. I then hunkered down for the next ten years to build my economy. I also stayed allied with the AS when Pahlava, Baktria, and the Hayasdan split from them, which might have kept me in their good books.
In 253 BC the AS finally attacked, sending a half-stack (with scythed chariots!) from Ipsos towards Ankyra. Thankfully I had just started recruiting again and could move my own half-stack across to block them after an initial skirmish. Then I sent my influence-8 diplomat to negotiate a ceasefire. They accepted, and this bought me enough time to swing my army around and besiege and capture Mazaka from them. The AI isn't the only one allowed to break a ceasefire :). I finally challenged and beat their chariot army in 250 BC, with the help of Caucasian archers from Trapezous. After a couple more field battles to destroy the rest of their strength in the area, I moved down and took Tarsos (which they had previously captured from the Ptolemaioi), and then hopped over to Antiocheia.
So, it's now 247 BC and I have seven regions, anchored on Ankyra in the west and Antiocheia in the southeast. The other factions have just started colliding, so the situation around me is getting very interesting indeed:
https://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/FoECarthage/pontos1.jpg
Arche Seleukia (enemies) have two cities left in Asia Minor, Ipsos and Sardis. They recently sent most of their troops from these cities to besiege rebel Nikaia and wipe out its garrison, only to stand dumbly outside the empty city for a season, which allowed...
Epeiros (allies) to swoop over from Byzantion and capture Nikaia from under the noses of the AS. Yup, after being kicked out of Italy the Epeirotes marched east through Makedonian territory, and made it to Asia Minor! Nikaia just rebelled out from under them, so we'll see what happens next.
Ptolemaioi (allies) are busy carving their way up the coast through AS cities. I had felt a little bad about taking Tarsos and then Antiocheia so quickly, until I saw that the Ptolemaioi had already captured Sidon and Damaskos to the south! One more year and they'd have been in Antiocheia. In Asia Minor, a Ptolemaioi army also just moved out of Side to besiege Sardis.
Makedonia (neutral) is trying to stage a desperate comeback. They had been reduced to just Demetrias in the west and Mytilene in Asia Minor, but they've recently captured Athens and their Mytilene stack is making a second attempt at conquering rebel Pergamon.
Hayasdan (allies) seem content to try endless sieges against rebel towns in the mountains to the east.
As'Sab'yn wal'Jau (neutral) have Palmyra, just to the southeast of Antiocheia. Edit: I understand this can be because of a rebellion?
In the far east, the Pahlavans and AS are grinding away at each other. The AS also had a province that was cut off inside Baktrian territory, which always makes the AI go nuts recruiting a huge army to defend the isolated city. Wasn't enough, because that city just rebelled, so maybe now the Arche Seleukeia can concentrate their resources elsewhere.
Not quite sure if my next move should be east or west. To the east I could grab Edessa from the AS, but that would be just to stop the Ptolemaioi or As'Sab'yn wal'Jau from taking it. Karkathiokerta in the mountains is also tempting, but it has a half-stack of axemen and Kinsmen Heavy Cavalry inside! And I really want the AS to survive in some form for a while longer to keep the eastern hordes at bay, so I'm tempted to leave them with the riches of Babylon and Seleukeia. To the west I could aim at rebel Nikaia (risking an attack from Epeiros), rebel Pergamon (risking an attack from the Makedonians) or AS Ipsos (risking an attack from the Ptolemaioi).
I also need a new army. My last one ended up as the faction leader, four Pantodapoi Phalangitai, two Thureophoroi guarding their sides, two Caucasian archers, and Galatian Shortswordsmen from Ankyra to flank, but most of those will stay in Antiocheia as a garrison. And as a result of selling those initial cities into slavery, and pumping out Pantodapoi Phalangitai from my capital, I have only just reached 6,000 population in one city - my troops were amazed at the size of Antiocheia when they captured it :) I'm also starting to see other factions fielding elite units like Chaonian Agema and Hypaspistai, so I have some catching up to do. Just to complicate things I have a house rule not to recruit mercenaries until/unless I see the AI doing it (unlikely on M/M), and that any town with a population of <2000 is not allowed to send troops on campaigns (they can recruit them as local garrisons in emergencies, which Ankyra did once in the early game).
Anyway, tons of fun. Those years of hunkering down got quite stressful with AS armies sniffing around, but now I'm earning ~5,000 a turn and seem (relatively) secure in the short term. I just have to choose my next enemy!
gamegeek2
02-04-2010, 05:43
Consolidate your empire - take Sinope, Trapezous, and . Then rush Ipsos and Sardis - take them as quickly as you can. AFAIK one of these two, if not both of them, have mines, an invaluable bonus in your struggle against the Grey Death.
After that, take Antiocheia at all costs and blow up their MIC there. That'll stop their flow of guys and if you can hang on to it, all the better. Be warned, the Ptollies will often ceasefire with the Seleukids and declare war on you if you take Antiocheia, so don't be afraid to give it to the Hai - meaning either the Seleukids declare war on the Hai or Antiocheia stays out of their hands. You'll be going after the Hai later anyways.
athanaric
02-05-2010, 03:33
After that, take Antiocheia at all costs and blow up their MIC there. That'll stop their flow of guys and if you can hang on to it, all the better. Be warned, the Ptollies will often ceasefire with the Seleukids and declare war on you if you take Antiocheia, so don't be afraid to give it to the Hai - meaning either the Seleukids declare war on the Hai or Antiocheia stays out of their hands. You'll be going after the Hai later anyways.
And you can use all Hai MICs, should they bother to build any of these at Antiocheia.
FriendlyFire
02-05-2010, 07:24
I continued on to take Ipsos and Sardis from the AS, then planned to take a short breather to consolidate and build up my strength again. No such luck! The Ptolemaioi and Arche Seleukeia negotiated a ceasefire, and then they both started sending stacks against Antiocheia as you'd predicted, with some AS stacks continuing on to besiege Tarsos, or coming through the eastern mountains to threaten my heartland. Luckily I had gone for the fastest possible government in Antiocheia, which meant that by the time the first big Ptolemaioi stack arrived it had just started churning out Hoplitai Haploi and Cappadoccian Hillmen. My client ruler has been fighting heroic battles with these poor troops, throwing them into breaches in the walls, headlong countercharges against Kinsmen Heavy Cavalry, going toe-to-toe to against Thorakitai, the lot.
Meanwhile Makedonia and Epeiros have divided up the west coast of Asia Minor between them, and are squabbling over each other's conquests. I'm praying that they continue fighting each other instead of turning on me as well. I guess the only "good" news is that I have one more AS stack to defeat, and then their nearby cities to the east are depleted and ripe for conquest. The Ptolemaioi to the south, however, are a different matter. Thanks for the idea of the gift-Antiocheia-to-the-Hai trick -- I'll use it if things get *really* desperate :)
One question -- where in the #!&*%# are the Ptolemaioi training Klerouchoi Phalangitai with three silver chevrons of experience? Those guys are just nasty.
One question -- where in the #!&*%# are the Ptolemaioi training Klerouchoi Phalangitai with three silver chevrons of experience? Those guys are just nasty.
The problem is that when retraining a unit the new soldiers get the same exp level as the old ones. A unit that has been decimated often has high experience levels, so when retraining it you get a monster unit. And the A.I. uses autocalc, which seems to units more experience and often results in decimated units, so the end result is high experience levels.
Experience does not protect against missiles, though. Myabe you could try pinning them and setting a slinger unit in their rear. Slingers have AP projectiles to overcome the phalangite's armour, and by firing into the rear or unshielded side you can avoid the extreme phalanx-shieldvalues.
Am just starting a Pontus game on VH/VH using the BI exe. Wish me luck! Its only 270 BC and I have already captured Sinope and am besieging Nikaia. With the RTW exe I was previously able to attack the Seleucids right away and dominate Anatolia fast enough to rebuild before they could send big armies after me. But that proved far more difficult on the BI exe, not impossible, but I was getting frustrated so I started over.
In my Pontos campaign I took a different approach - I blitzed the AS right away. There are three reasons for this:
1. Your armies are perfectly positioned to take their cities immediately. If you send a spy to Mazaka then you can take that city on the first turn.
2. Their other two cities (Ipsos and Sardis) have mines already built in, meaning that you will get out of debt earlier.
3. If you take all their cities in Asia Minor immediately then the AS can only attack you from the east, which is good for bottle-necking.
You are going to find yourself at war with the AS eventually, so you might as well face them on your terms while your armies are at full strength.
This
Satyros
Olaf The Great
08-28-2011, 19:41
Thankfully the AI is less antagonistic in m2 and diplomacy actually works so breathing room is possible
Grouchio
08-29-2011, 16:44
What if you just migrated from Pontus to the Crimean Bosphorous?
Slightly off topic question :
Do you think that EB2 will have a less psycho killer CAI , because of the engine ?
Satyros
Titus Marcellus Scato
08-30-2011, 14:24
Am just starting a Pontus game on VH/VH using the BI exe. Wish me luck! Its only 270 BC and I have already captured Sinope and am besieging Nikaia. With the RTW exe I was previously able to attack the Seleucids right away and dominate Anatolia fast enough to rebuild before they could send big armies after me. But that proved far more difficult on the BI exe, not impossible, but I was getting frustrated so I started over.
VH/VH? You're dead, Tanit. Your faction leader will be nailed to his own palace door....
Do you think that EB2 will have a less psycho killer CAI , because of the engine ?
Yes. I haven't played M2:TW much, but I understand the diplomatic A.I. can be modded to become more reasonable. There's also more feedback in the diplomacy screen, so you have a better idea of what's going on. I don't expect a clever diplomatic A.I., but I am pretty sure it will be a lot less rabid.
Yes. I haven't played M2:TW much, but I understand the diplomatic A.I. can be modded to become more reasonable. There's also more feedback in the diplomacy screen, so you have a better idea of what's going on. I don't expect a clever diplomatic A.I., but I am pretty sure it will be a lot less rabid.
Thank you for answering .
I have enough experience with MTW2 , I was not thrilled , but I don't know the extend of the possible CAI modifications in MTW2 , as I am not a modder , nor have I played many MTW2 mods .
So , thanks for the good news . A less rabid A.I. will give us a better game .
Satyros
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