View Full Version : Some joyous tidings from Israel
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-10-2009, 01:05
Really ?
Our right to exist--have you ever heard of such a thing? Would it enter the mind of any Briton or Frenchman, Belgian or Dutchman, Hungarian or Bulgarian, Russian or American, to request for its people recognition of its right to exist? Mr. Speaker, we were granted our right to exist by the God of our fathers at the glimmer of the dawn of human civilization four thousand years ago. Hence, the Jewish people have an historic, eternal and inalienable right to exist in this land, Eretz Israel, the land of our forefathers. We need nobody's recognition in asserting this inalienable right. And for this inalienable right, which has been sanctified in Jewish blood from generation to generation, we have paid a price unexampled in the annals of nations. Mr. Speaker, from the Knesset of Israel, I say to the world, our very existence per se is our right to exist!
Existence is a fact. Israel has majority diplomatic recognition as a sovereign state.
Tribesman
01-10-2009, 01:16
Existence is a fact. Israel has majority diplomatic recognition as a sovereign state.
For a soveriegn State to be properly recognised it needs defined borders ? Where are Israels ?
What is the legal basis for the foundation of Israel ?
Well done , in a topic where we are now discussing terrorists claims about their right to form their state as they see fit you quote a terrorist talking about his right to form a state as he sees fit .
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Open letter to the world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQSfeNkJgBI&eurl=http://xandernieuws.punt.nl/?id=499165&r=1&tbl_archief
:shame:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-10-2009, 01:21
For a soveriegn State to be properly recognised it needs defined borders ? Where are Israels ?
Israel has de facto recognition from the majority of states in the world.
Tribesman
01-10-2009, 01:24
Bloody hell Frag you really have surpassed yourself this time .
My objective is to show who meir kahane was and what he said.
Kahane ??????
the Israelis and Americans both called him a terrorist nut .
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Tribesman
01-10-2009, 01:35
Israel has de facto recognition from the majority of states in the world.
Interesting .
Palestine has recognition from the majority of states on the world .
The Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic has de facto recognition of the Free Zone .
Taiwan is only recognised by 23 countries .
Do you see where the legality aspect of this comes in yet ?
Bloody hell Frag you really have surpassed yourself this time .
Kahane ??????
the Israelis and Americans both called him a terrorist nut .
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
He makes it pretty clear he's just an ordinary Israeli citizin and that is his perspective, rockets-in-the face-just-suck-it-up technically speaking, or does that logic only comes into full effect when it are non-jews, you seem to be so particulary thoughtfull of the motivations of the arabs even when they are vowing to kill all jews, which is of course a reaction to the reaction of how was reacted upon a reaction of how was reacted on a reaction, or however you want to justify the need to completely whipe out a people and their country for whatever rightious cause that makes your birthday-party's somewhat interesting.
this sums it up pretty well:
https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/hooahguy14/image001.jpg
Replace the Israeli rifle with a grenade.
Babies!
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-10-2009, 03:21
Replace the Israeli rifle with a grenade.
Babies!
And the Palestinian one with a suicide vest...
Tribesman
01-10-2009, 03:25
He makes it pretty clear he's just an ordinary Israeli citizin and that is his perspective
Yeah Kahane was just an ordinary Israeli citizen too , before that he was just an ordinary american citizen , both countries call him a racist terrorist , what more perspective on his view do you need ?
So in his perspective a statement like this is right ...
Western democracy has to be ruled out. For me that's cut and dried: there's no question of setting up democracy in Israel, because democracy means equal rights for all, irrespective of racial or religious origins
Nice eh ?
I suppose he also agrees from his perspective that Israel includes all the UN allocated territory , all the occupied territory , large parts of Jordan Syria Iraq Lebanon and North Egypt and all non jews must be either expelled or killed .
Like I said , you really have surpassed yourself Frag .:2thumbsup:
And the Palestinian one with a suicide vest...
Indeed.
Yeah Kahane was just an ordinary Israeli citizen too , before that he was just an ordinary american citizen , both countries call him a racist terrorist , what more perspective on his view do you need ?
So in his perspective a statement like this is right ...
Western democracy has to be ruled out. For me that's cut and dried: there's no question of setting up democracy in Israel, because democracy means equal rights for all, irrespective of racial or religious origins
Nice eh ?
I suppose he also agrees from his perspective that Israel includes all the UN allocated territory , all the occupied territory , large parts of Jordan Syria Iraq Lebanon and North Egypt and all non jews must be either expelled or killed .
Like I said , you really have surpassed yourself Frag .:2thumbsup:
No not nice, but understandable, I do not know this man but I have no objections about what is said in that video, so you do?
Seamus Fermanagh
01-10-2009, 05:55
Bopa:
Please take your attitude and shelve it. I noted to Griz that the doctrine of "by conquest" HAD -- please note the tense -- a general "acceptance" in international relations. I was suggesting that to dismiss the concept entirely was therefore innacurate. I was careful to note that most nations have repudiated this notion (by virtue of their membership in the UN if nought else).
In short, I was bringing up an analytical point that bears relevance to the larger issue. If you had paused in your vitriolic response, you might have noted that:
1) as Israel draws its legitimacy from the 1947 UN decision to establish that state, Israel is a product of the organization whereby most nations have forsworn conquest but has itself -- at least twice (1948 and 1967) -- acquired territory in conflict and
2) Israel is currently in possession of territories that were set aside for an arab state in the 1947 UN decision;
you could thereby make an argument that Israel de-legitimated itself from the outset. Of course, you chose more a more "strident" response instead. :shame:
On your other "barb:"
You have a right to consider the USA to be an imperialist nation -- you're entitled to hold whatever opinions you wish.
I, myself, DREAM of a world for me and for my children in which the United States, with its current outlook on the world, is the MOST imperialist/aggressive state out there.
Israel our proxy? Chat with Krook if you want to hear about life as a "proxy" hewing wood and hauling water for someone else's agenda. Ally, yes. Take the opportunity to test out weapons systems with live fire, yes. Beg Mossad for humint we were dumb enough to discard or not develop in the region, yes. But a proxy? Don't think so.
Seamus Fermanagh
01-10-2009, 06:05
No not nice, but understandable, I do not know this man but I have no objections about what is said in that video, so you do?
Frag:
Didn't see the particular vid in question, but Kahane has a reputation that is as extremist/reactionary as Wilders, if not more so. The Knesset banned his entire party as racists and the USA did formally condem the Kahane Chai organization as a terrorist organization.
Presuming Kahane is a "typical" voice for Israel would be akin to labeling OBL a "typical" voice for Islam.
rasoforos
01-10-2009, 08:00
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/10/world/middleeast/10gaza.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=todayspaper
Make sure they are civilians, round em up, bomb em, don't go and help them...
Now why didn't the Israeli Army not even go to help or take the wounded/dead away? Why did they even stop the Red Cross for doing so?
Even if they thought there were terrorists inside they would move in to engage or to ensure the target is neutralized. You don't just sit next to a potentially hostile building just because you bombed it.
It seems to me that the intention here was to just make people suffer. Make sure many of them die slowly and in pain. Do people really rejoice by such actions? Noone wonders who authorizes such actions?
Did your country sign a treaty giving Prussia away ?
Did your country sign a treaty giving that land away ?
They were signed under pressure. Documents signed under pressure are illegal.
There, now give us all that land back please or I'll start firing homemade LEGO rockets into Poland. :eyebrows:
Concerning the nice picture with the babies, there are two problems I have with it:
1) the israeli soldiers have a tendency to fire anyway
2) I guess the assault rifles can easily penetrate the first target
so all four of the depicted persons will be dead in the end and what's the whole point of the picture now? :inquisitive:
Except of course proving the point that the whole thing is a bloody mess and both sides are being idiots.
as extremist/reactionary as Wilders
:inquisitive:
this sums it up pretty well:
https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/hooahguy14/image001.jpg
Yes, hilarious "hooahguy" how the Palestinian militants are depicted as fighting among the civilian population.
Well duh smart guy, did you know that they live there as well? There in the overcrowded Gaza Strip? Where else can the Palestinians fight the Israeli invaders? North Dakota?
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/Fragony/hitandmiss-g.jpg
Tribesman
01-10-2009, 11:39
They were signed under pressure. Documents signed under pressure are illegal.
So that means Britain can have America back as it was under pressure when it signed the Paris treaty
So does that mean that Egypts and Jordans peace deals with Israel are illegal ?
If Hamas or Israel signs a ceasefire is that illegal ?
No not nice, but understandable, I do not know this man but I have no objections about what is said in that video, so you do?
Yes plenty of objections , because it is the usual hate filled crap from Kahane .
Ser Clegane
01-10-2009, 11:46
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/Fragony/hitandmiss-g.jpg
I think a lot of us are currently asking the question of the guy on the left side - unfortunately there are a lot of doubts that the people in charge are asking the same questions.
Currently this "caricature" seems somewhat meaningless... (but I guess everybody can scribble a little picture on paper and just make stuff up)
rory_20_uk
01-10-2009, 11:46
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/Fragony/hitandmiss-g.jpg
Only error there: not "shoot" but "kill them all"
~:smoking:
So that means Britain can have America back as it was under pressure when it signed the Paris treaty
Yes, about time, America needs CCTVs and a gun ban. ~D
So does that mean that Egypts and Jordans peace deals with Israel are illegal ?
If Hamas or Israel signs a ceasefire is that illegal ?
That depends on who proposed them, if the weaker party did then they are legal because the stronger party was not under pressure signing them. IIRC the idea to give away Prussia did not exactly come from the german side they just had no way to say no to it and would have signed almost anything at the time.
Only error there: not "shoot" but "kill them all"
~:smoking:
Nownow how would you know, everybody knows Israel doesn't allow any journalists :balloon2:
everybody knows Israel doesn't allow any journalists
Nor food or humanitarian aid.
Nor food or humanitarian aid.
yeah terrible. Maybe they should have used the fertiliser to grow crops instead of making explosives, just an idea. But alas they didn't and now they cry, maybe their arab brothers can spare some they care so very, very deeply after all. Oh silly me they prefer them poor and hungry makes for better pictures.
Fragony, arguing with someone like you is pointless. For some reason, the idea of peace just doesn't enter your mind. I don't know whatever happened that you hate the Palestinians so much, but the way you regard Arabs and Muslims as second-range humans sickens me.
Fragony, arguing with someone like you is pointless. For some reason, the idea of peace just doesn't enter your mind. I don't know whatever happened that you hate the Palestinians so much, but the way you regard Arabs and Muslims as second-range humans sickens me.
Yeah how very terrible of me that I, unlike some, am not particulary sympathatic towards a internationaly recognised terrorist-organisation who wants to whipe out an entire country and it's people. Not particulary fond of the palestinians no, and the palestinians that don't support Hamas are either dead, have fled, or are too terrified to speak up by now. If you burn your :daisy: you will have to sit on the blisters as we say here in Holland.
rory_20_uk
01-10-2009, 15:39
Fled. Fled where? The borders are sealed! And as another party was democratically elected they have to leave all their possessions and try to get through an Israeli cordon. Yeah, that'd work
Under 50% voted for Hamas.
Ergo THOUSANDS didn't want Hamas, but have no choice but to stay as they can't leave.
myopic or moronic. Not sure which...
~:smoking:
Fled. Fled where? The borders are sealed! And as another party was democratically elected they have to leave all their possessions and try to get through an Israeli cordon. Yeah, that'd work
Under 50% voted for Hamas.
Ergo THOUSANDS didn't want Hamas, but have no choice but to stay as they can't leave.
myopic or moronic. Not sure which...
~:smoking:
Hence too terrified to speak up, do you know any palestinians? Hamas is one sick organisation they aren't the poor and deprived organised, Hamas is the scum of the earth and it should be dead, gone, finito.
Watchman
01-10-2009, 15:48
If you burn your *** you will have to sit on the blisters as we say here in Holland.And what part of that doesn't apply to the issue of Israel getting the occasional crop of homemade rockets and suicide bombers as a direct result of its land-grabbing, I wonder...?
Nahh, not biased at all here. No way our dear resident xenophobe and Islam-hater would be, right ? :dizzy2:
And what part of that doesn't apply to the issue of Israel getting the occasional crop of homemade rockets and suicide bombers as a direct result of its land-grabbing, I wonder...?
Nahh, not biased at all here. No way our dear resident xenophobe and Islam-hater would be, right ? :dizzy2:
Of course I am biased, I tend to have a dislike for organisations that want to whipe out a country and it's people. Hax is right it is really not worth discussing with someone like me, as I have developed a strong dislike for organisations that want to whipe out an entire country and it's people, a shade of grey you seem to find acceptable when the tea is sweet enough.
Tribesman
01-10-2009, 16:02
Yeah how very terrible of me that I, unlike some, am not particulary sympathatic towards a internationaly recognised terrorist-organisation who wants to whipe out an entire country and it's people.
Says someone who is sympathetic towards an internationally recognised terrorist organisation who wants to wipe out several countries and their people .
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
You really dropped yourself in it Frag , hows them blisters on your ****?
Watchman
01-10-2009, 16:05
Of course I am biased, I tend to have a dislike for organisations that want to whipe out a country and it's people. Hax is right it is really not worth discussing with someone like me, as I have developed a strong dislike for organisations that want to whipe out an entire country and it's people, a shade of grey you seem to find acceptable when the tea is sweet enough.And like I keep telling you, what they "want" is right well irrelevant as they're patently incapable of ever even trying to realize it. So moot point.
Which is why such movements are so wont to "mellow out" once they come in from the wilds and have to start to wear ties and sit behind big mahogany tables and add up numbers in bureaucratic paperwork.
Why are you so hung up on Hamas' little piece of rhetorical fantasy, anyway ?
Why are you so hung up on Hamas' little piece of rhetorical fantasy, anyway ?
Because it works, everybody is falling for it
Watchman
01-10-2009, 16:13
Especially you ?
Granted, it seems to be a rather important building block in the case you're making...
Personally, I prefer to take bombastic political declarations with a rather major pinch of salt.
Especially you ?
Granted, it seems to be a rather important building block in the case you're making...
Personally, I prefer to take bombastic political declarations with a rather major pinch of salt.
I am not narcistic enough for making this my own, this goes a whole lot further then whatever self-rightious intentions I happen to not have. Can we please stop keeping correcting what we know crap about, which would be the middle-east.
Watchman
01-10-2009, 16:45
Now that just went incoherent. What're you trying to say ?
rasoforos
01-10-2009, 16:52
yeah terrible. Maybe they should have used the fertiliser to grow crops instead of making explosives, just an idea. But alas they didn't and now they cry, maybe their arab brothers can spare some they care so very, very deeply after all. Oh silly me they prefer them poor and hungry makes for better pictures.
So much hate and not even one argument.
The idea that they could have used 'fertilizer' to grow crops as an excuse to why humanitarian aid is blocked from reaching them...
...and then somehow you forget aid is being blocked and u ask the other arabs to send aid? (Which is being blocked?!)
Ok we got it, you hate the Arabs. Fine. U dont really have a reason. Fine. Could it be possible, if you are not planning to use any arguments, to stop spamming the thread?
Now that just went incoherent. What're you trying to say ?
This war in just a vehicle for some. Pretending they give a crap but it's all political correctness, who gives a crap about Palestina.You are the lead star in your own Unicef-commercial.
So much hate and not even one argument.
Yeah yeah, in the meantime I support 4 african familie, including a playstation for all of them, have adopted four elders in Russia, and give 100 euro a month to friends of Iran so people in Iran don't get hanged, that is more then 200 euro month, how about you? :daisy:
Watchman
01-10-2009, 17:16
I detect a failed argument that has now collapsed into incoherent, vague accusations and nihilistic raving.
rasoforos
01-10-2009, 17:20
Yeah yeah, in the meantime I support 4 african familie, including a playstation for all of them, have adopted four elders in Russia, and give 100 euro a month to friends of Iran so people in Iran don't get hanged, that is more then 200 euro month, how about you? :daisy:
:barrel:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-10-2009, 17:22
Says someone who is sympathetic towards an internationally recognised terrorist organisation who wants to wipe out several countries and their people .
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Oh, I'm sorry, when did the Israelis start committing genocide or state that they'd like to?
Look, it's got nothing to do with hating the Arabs. On the other hand, Hamas actually is an anti-Semetic organization. So, why don't I suggest that you're all anti-Semetic? Come on. Supporting Israel doesn't mean you hate Arabs - it means you don't like the people who broke this ceasefire that much (and that wasn't Israel, it was Hamas).
I detect a failed argument that has now collapsed into incoherent, vague accusations and nihilistic raving.
And everybody cheers, but this isn't your university technologicallycoherentlytothepointspeaking.
So, what should Israel do, and how will it work, and why, and of course because.
[insert superior logic here]
Watchman
01-10-2009, 17:30
How about you call back when you're sober again ?
But if you want my opinion on what Israel should do, it starts with canning the idiotic "Biblical Israel" dream, dumping the loonies adhering to it to the political wilderness where they belong, and goddamn giving the Palestinians a viable plot of land to live on. One of the suggestions I've seen floated in diverse writings over the years involved the Palestinians in effect becoming a buffer state between Israel and Syria, Lebanon and Jordan...
How about you call back when you're sober again ?
But if you want my opinion on what Israel should do, it starts with canning the idiotic "Biblical Israel" dream, dumping the loonies adhering to it to the political wilderness where they belong, and goddamn giving the Palestinians a viable plot of land to live on. One of the suggestions I've seen floated in diverse writings over the years involved the Palestinians in effect becoming a buffer state between Israel and Syria, Lebanon and Jordan...
So in short you want the west to keep distributing land? We know best after all.
Watchman
01-10-2009, 17:44
"The West" ? No, I want Israel to stop being an avaricious bully which is the main thing sustaining the conflict. They have that land ATM, groslly illegally I'll remind you.
Also, judging by the decades-long utter failure of Israeli policy to bring anything even approaching peace nevermind now a viable solution to the question of where the fig the Palestinians are actually suppose to live and how, I daresay they for sure don't "know best" so...
"The West" ? No, I want Israel to stop being an avaricious bully which is the main thing sustaining the conflict.
That's what you lefties say, or rather 'have agreed upon'. I think I just can't handle the truth.
Banquo's Ghost
01-10-2009, 17:55
Gentlemen,
Let's cut out the ad hominems and personal attacks, please. If one finds a poster's viewpoint irritating or difficult to engage with, simply ignore them and move on.
Thank you kindly,
:bow:
Watchman
01-10-2009, 18:00
That's what you lefties say, or rather 'have agreed upon'. I think I just can't handle the truth.Uh-huh. Then kindly explain to me wtf Israel's doing building colonies - both official and unofficial - on land which by international law etc. belongs to the Palestinians ? Why the more militant settlers are actively harassing Palestinian farmers, damaging their crops, etc. ? (To be fair, I understand the IDF by and large detests those guys; they're busy enough without the extra trouble these fanatics stir up, but they still don't drag them back over the Jordan so...) And so on. The crap list's a long and unpleasant one.
Uh-huh. Then kindly explain to me wtf Israel's doing building colonies - both official and unofficial - on land which by international law etc. belongs to the Palestinians ? Why the more militant settlers are actively harassing Palestinian farmers, damaging their crops, etc. ?
You know why because there are nutjobs on the other side as well. But the latest word in the media is "proportionality". But I think reacting to continious attacks is a pretty basic thing.
Watchman
01-10-2009, 18:35
And most of those issues are connected how exactly...? Coherence, please.
But maybe the Israelis shouldn't keep digging blood from their collective nose with those colonies and whatnot either. Might perhaps kind of tone down the level of "continuous attacks" if they didn't, no ?
And most of those issues are connected how exactly...? Coherence, please.
I thought I was perfectly clear on all this so have you been Fragony hates muslims simple as that. So, we have cohence there, but this is your moment
Watchman
01-10-2009, 19:10
I thought I was perfectly clear on all this so have you been Fragony hates muslims simple as that. So, we have cohence there, but this is your momentIncoherent again. Look, I really have better things to do than try to guess what you're trying to say. State yourself clearly or don't bother, 'kay ?
Incongruous
01-10-2009, 19:25
Oh, I'm sorry, when did the Israelis start committing genocide or state that they'd like to?
Look, it's got nothing to do with hating the Arabs. On the other hand, Hamas actually is an anti-Semetic organization. So, why don't I suggest that you're all anti-Semetic? Come on. Supporting Israel doesn't mean you hate Arabs - it means you don't like the people who broke this ceasefire that much (and that wasn't Israel, it was Hamas).
First, let get the terms right, the Arabs are semites, so lets drop that one shall we for something else?
The ceasfire, well, Israel was denying the people of Gaza supplies of water, fuel and food, to the point where most Gazans are facing starvation, an act of war? Very much so.
Now to that real gem, when did the Israelis start commiting genocide?
Hmmm, did you bother reading that John Pilger link?
Watchman
01-10-2009, 19:27
*copy-paste*
*nonsense*...
...and...? I mean, I know I posted that. I also know full well what I meant with it, and what I was answering to with it.
There's some "truth" for you. What of it ?
Incongruous
01-10-2009, 19:29
Hence too terrified to speak up, do you know any palestinians? Hamas is one sick organisation they aren't the poor and deprived organised, Hamas is the scum of the earth and it should be dead, gone, finito.
No they are not, you obviously have been reading some very strange websites Frag, Hamas was elected by a vast majority of Palestinians and they gain their support from there many charitable actions.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-10-2009, 19:49
First, let get the terms right, the Arabs are semites, so lets drop that one shall we for something else?
I love how you lot nitpick whenever a term doesn't suit you - but as inaccurate as the term may or may not be, it refers to "discrimination against or prejudice or hostility toward Jews" according to dictionary.com.
The ceasfire, well, Israel was denying the people of Gaza supplies of water, fuel and food, to the point where most Gazans are facing starvation, an act of war? Very much so.
Did you read the Globe and Mail article I linked to?
Now to that real gem, when did the Israelis start commiting genocide?
Hmmm, did you bother reading that John Pilger link?
Of course I did - but Israel isn't committing genocide. If they wanted to do so, I think that there wouldn't be many Palestinians left at the moment.
Tribesman
01-11-2009, 02:19
Oh, I'm sorry, when did the Israelis start committing genocide or state that they'd like to?
Ah so you are unfamiliar with Frags source of "wisdom" that he posted and who he says he sees nothing wrong with ?
Look, it's got nothing to do with hating the Arabs. On the other hand, Hamas actually is an anti-Semetic organization. So, why don't I suggest that you're all anti-Semetic? Come on. Supporting Israel doesn't mean you hate Arabs - it means you don't like the people who broke this ceasefire that much (and that wasn't Israel, it was Hamas).
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
What that episode has to do with Mars is a rather nasty form of ultra racist revisionist zionism that makes the old revisionist zionism which Einstein called "closely akin in its organization,
methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist
parties. " seem decidedly tame by comparison .
Might I suggest that before you defend a view that is being attacked you start by finding out what that view is that you wish to defend .
As I said earlier Frag really dropped himself in the crap by bring crazy fundamentalist Jewish terrorists into the topic .
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-11-2009, 03:35
What that episode has to do with Mars
Oh, good. I'm not referring to the video, simply to your comment. You and Frags can discuss the video all you like.
Incongruous
01-11-2009, 04:08
Did you read the Globe and Mail article I linked to?
Of course I did - but Israel isn't committing genocide. If they wanted to do so, I think that there wouldn't be many Palestinians left at the moment.
:laugh4:
That article was top notch Mars!
I really liked this bit
The pullout signalled a sea change in Israeli attitudes. After decades of conflict with their immediate neighbours, the Palestinians, Israelis were eager for an end to it all. Even the hardest of hard-liners, Ariel Sharon, had come around to the view that it was time to extricate Israel from the quagmire in the occupied territories, pull back to defensible borders and leave the Palestinians to fend for themselves, even if that meant the emergence of a Palestinian state that the Israeli right had resisted for so long.
:laugh4:
Awsome! What a load of :daisy: it is...
The withdrawal was a trial of their willingness and ability to become responsible neighbours.:smash:
Is hat Israel this :daisy: refers to Mars?
After winning Palestinian legislative elections in 2006, Hamas seized control of Gaza in June of 2007.
So wait, the article admits that Hamas one fair and free elections, then states that they "siezed" control? Hmmm, did you actually read this article?
his was what Israeli rightists and settlers had warned would happen: Handed over to the Palestinians, a pistol-shaped Gaza would become a deadly weapon pointed straight at the heart of Israel.:thumbsdown:
What else did you expect these nutters to say? They had just ben told that they could no longer continue living upon stolen land, to zionists thats the worst thing you can say.
Much as Israelis (still) want the conflict to be over, they have lost whatever small confidence they had that the Palestinians might be tolerable neighbours. The idea of pulling out of the West Bank, only to see it become another, bigger base for terror, now seems unthinkable. Mr. Netanyahu, head of the Likud party, could return to office in next month's election on a tough program.
:shame:
Well, the article is either in need of information about the Westbank or is in support of continued opression and genocide. I would say a bit of both. This article is a poorly researched bit of nothing, so typical of most Western media outlets when concerned with Palestine.
There is one remaining hope: that Palestinians see the disaster their leaders have wrought in Gaza and choose another course. That seems unlikely now that they are under attack, and the natural reaction is to rally around the green flag of Hamas. But maybe, just maybe, after the current violence is over, they will think again. The only way for Palestinians to get a state is to build one. The place to start is Gaza.
Ugh just ugh, what a load of crap.
So yes Mars I have read that article and I feel it was a waste of time.
Tribesman
01-11-2009, 04:42
Oh, good. I'm not referring to the video, simply to your comment.
So you was refering to a comment but not refering to what the comment was ??????
So if I was to write "a whale is a big mammal that lives in the sea"
you might respond with "airplanes can be big too"
No they are not, you obviously have been reading some very strange websites Frag, Hamas was elected by a vast majority of Palestinians and they gain their support from there many charitable actions.
Like distributing medicine, often from Israel, among their supporters
Incongruous
01-11-2009, 09:12
Like distributing medicine, often from Israel, among their supporters
So...
You admit that Hamas do charitable works, amongst which is the distribution of medicine?
So...
You admit that Hamas do charitable works, amongst which is the distribution of medicine?
The medicine they recieve from Israel. Yes Hamas also does charity work if you want to call destributing foreign aid to their supporters the hight of ethical fortitude. I know Hamas was elected, as I said earlier in the thread that kinda makes me less concerned about civilians. Most of what still lives there and thus havent been killed in the numerous mass-executions indeed voted for Hamas. If Israel wants to kill as many Palestinians as Hamas has they will have to start enjoying it.
Incongruous
01-11-2009, 09:31
The medicine they recieve from Israel. Yes Hamas also does charity work if you want to call destributing foreign aid to their supporters the hight of ethical fortitude. I know Hamas was elected, as I said earlier in the thread that kinda makes me less concerned about civilians. Most of what still lives there and thus havent been killed in the numerous mass-executions indeed voted for Hamas. If Israel wants to kill as many Palestinians as Hamas has they will have to start enjoying it.
What on earth are you talking about?
I'm perplexed.
What on earth are you talking about?
I'm perplexed.
I am talking about the numerous mass executions of palestinian civilians, didn't you know? No surprise there. I can put some juicy video's here, you know wall, civilians, machine gun, ratatatatata but it would break rules and they aren't so hard to find anyway.
Incongruous
01-11-2009, 09:38
I am talking about the numerous mass executions of palestinian civilians, didn't you know? No surprise there. I can put some juicy video's here, you know wall, civilians, machine gun, ratatatatata but it would break rules and they aren't so hard to find anyway.
PM me
PM me
Have 'fun'
By the way, I guess the pouring gassoline 'wannalight' trick people I know from there are talking about is a bit too much for youtube, but at least it's free gassoline, like fertiliser somewhat used the wrong way but at least it's redistributed.
Tribesman
01-11-2009, 11:34
The medicine they recieve from Israel.
Do you mean the medicine from other countries that has to pass through Israel ?
Meanwhile on the reality front the IDF is revising some statements from earlier .
Such a revision should not have been neccesary since xiahou offered some reports earlier that confirmed the IDF new version of events even though they was presented as "confirming" the original version when they did nothing of the sort .
The UN school being used as a refugee shelter that was attacked by the IDF was not being used for attacks from within the building , neither were the school grounds being used for the attacks , the two named militants killed in the incident were not killed in the school or its grounds .
The IDF wishes to apologise if some people feel slightly misled by its earlier propoganda and felt that on the sayso of the IDF they could attempt to justify the atrocity .
In other news the IDF has issued new rules of engagement .
Despite the Israeli courts and the IDFs' advocate general ruling that live ammunition cannot be fired at protesters unless there is a direct threat IDf has decided that live ammunition can be used to shoot protesters .
Do you mean the medicine from other countries that has to pass through Israel ?
Yes these, what happened to the other border? Egypt? Should be a piece of cake to organise aid if their arab brother didn't care so very very deeply. Everything quiet on the non-western front.
Furunculus
01-11-2009, 12:03
"The pullout signalled a sea change in Israeli attitudes. After decades of conflict with their immediate neighbours, the Palestinians, Israelis were eager for an end to it all. Even the hardest of hard-liners, Ariel Sharon, had come around to the view that it was time to extricate Israel from the quagmire in the occupied territories, pull back to defensible borders and leave the Palestinians to fend for themselves, even if that meant the emergence of a Palestinian state that the Israeli right had resisted for so long."
:laugh4:
Awsome! What a load of :daisy: it is...
What is wrong with that statement, it appears to be perfectly accurate? The only problem i can see with it is that you might find the statement difficult to wrestle into your; "teh evil j00's" argument...........
Tribesman
01-11-2009, 12:09
Yes these, what happened to the other border? Egypt?
As yes , you mean the single crossing at Rafah that is run through treaty by joint operations by Egypt Israel the EU and the PA .:idea2:
Damn Frag thats a bloody good question . That really needs some thought to answer .
Well lets see , why isn't aid coming up from that crossing ?
Errrrrr......before the elections it was closed by israel nearly 90% of the time , since the elections it has been closed entirely by Israel and the EU .
Like you say its a piece of cake for their arab brethren to ship stuff up from Egypt , if the crossing wasn't closed of course .:dizzy2:
Would you like to try another question ? perhaps one that makes sense .
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Banquo's Ghost
01-11-2009, 12:10
For those who like to characterise Israel as an unthinking bully by drawing comparisons that are odious, it might help your reflections to read this editorial (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054296.html) from Haaretz.
The lessons of previous wars, during which the IDF destroyed infrastructure targets and the homes of civilians but did not gain the quiet it had sought, have not been internalized. Israel's justified rationale in acting against rocket launchers has been increasingly damaged over two weeks. The legitimacy and understanding extended to Israel melt away amid the pictures of killing and ruin. Accusations of war crimes are already being bandied about in Israel. This war needs to move immediately to the diplomatic track and agreements that will end the fantasies and delusions of both sides.
Just as the argument that all Gazans deserve punishment because some voted for Hamas (one of the wickedest fallacies I have read in some while, as even the hardest of hearts would be unable to stretch that to the 260+ children now dead) it is equally specious to say all Israelis approve of the cruelty being perpetrated by their government.
Generalisations, stereotypes and black/white arguments are precisely the root cause of all this grief - as is the time-honoured inability to recognise that every single victim on both sides had a life and dreams and hopes, just like we might.
Tribesman
01-11-2009, 12:16
What is wrong with that statement, it appears to be perfectly accurate?
wow so many hard questions .
to extricate Israel from the quagmire in the occupied territories
They didn't , simple as that .
They pulled 8000 illegal settlers out of the occupied territories and put 12000 illegal settlers into the occupied territories , that is not extricating from the quagmire it is getting deeper into it .
As yes , you mean the single crossing at Rafah that is run through treaty by joint operations by Egypt Israel the EU and the PA .:idea2:
So, this is indeed a bit bigger then Palestine, as I said earlier, and blaming Israel for all this would be pretty narrowminded :idea2:
Tribesman
01-11-2009, 12:32
So, this is indeed a bit bigger then Palestine, as I said earlier, and blaming Israel for all this would be pretty narrowminded
Just like blaming Arabs Muslims Palestinians or Hamas is .
Hey Frag does that mean you a really narrowminded ?:idea2:
Just like blaming Arabs Muslims Palestinians or Hamas is .
Hey Frag does that mean you a really narrowminded ?:idea2:
"Arabs Muslims Palestinians" I don't blame them I just don't feel sorry for them. Blaming Hamas for current events, absolutely yes.
Furunculus
01-11-2009, 13:14
Just as the argument that all Gazans deserve punishment because some voted for Hamas (one of the wickedest fallacies I have read in some while............
I hope you do not refer to me with that statement, because i certainly do not believe Gazans deserve collective punishment.
My point is that a representative polity functions precisely because the individual delegates responsibility to a political class to act in their name. The individual must therefore take responsibility for the actions committed in his name, and does so in sound conscience because the community have a sufficient pool shared values that decisions made are likely to reflect the will of the individual.
If the individual does not have confidence that his community will render decisions he can abide by then he should leave.
By this reasoning I accept some responsibility for the London bombing given that they were in part a response to the UK's active interference in the affairs of other nations around the world, and I do so because I support the UK sticking its nose into other countries business. The republic of ireland has not to my knowledge been bombed by islamic terrorists, but it does not depose via militarily means the governments of arab/islamic countries at a time when militant islam as an ideology gets its knickers in a twist over western interference.
Gazans did elect a terrorist group whose aim is to destroy the neigbouring 'superpower' and who will launch these attacks from the homes and hospices of the community they were elected to govern, which leads me to believe the Gazan polity is intrinsically stupid.
However I do recognise that the rest of the world treats Gazans as something akin to dog-dirt, a fact which makes it very difficult for a Gazan to leave his community if he cannot abide the decisions to be taken in his name.
Given that national and international law allows for the following:
> a nation state to engage in military action designed to achieve a military advantage with the aim of defending ones citizens from attack (i.e. counter-battery fire at a Hamas launch site, even if there might be civilians there).
> that the legal liability for the death of a human shield lies with the hostage taker and not the rescuer who kills the hostage by accident (i.e. Hamas launching rockets from homes and hospices and schools of the Gazan people).
I find myself with little sympathy for the Gazan people that elected Hamas, and a great deal of sympathy for those that did not.
Either way it is:
> a tragedy that Gazan children are dieing
> a cause for question over whether there is sufficient community to forge a valid representative polity out of Gaza
> still legitimate for Israel to defend its citizens via attacking Hamas in Gaza providing they can justify that they can act with sufficient military competence to not create a humanitarian disaster, (which for some people is one dead Gazan civilian while for others that is anything short of decimating the local population in the hope that of accidentally killing the terrorists).
So in short, i do not support collective punishment, if that is what you believe.
Furunculus
01-11-2009, 13:49
wow so many hard questions .
to extricate Israel from the quagmire in the occupied territories
They didn't , simple as that .
They pulled 8000 illegal settlers out of the occupied territories and put 12000 illegal settlers into the occupied territories , that is not extricating from the quagmire it is getting deeper into it .
it is if it forms part of a process whereby israel de-legitimises settlement in the occupied territories.
Tribesman
01-11-2009, 15:19
If the individual does not have confidence that his community will render decisions he can abide by then he should leave.
How does someone leave if they are stuck in an open air prison ?
it is if it forms part of a process whereby israel de-legitimises settlement in the occupied territories.
So it isn't then is it as Israel continues to expand the illegal settlements doesn't it .:idea2:
Sharons government who that article claims was pulling out of the quagmire put out tenders for the construction of 55 new settlements .
Olmerts government has put out tenders for another 7 .
and that is only the official ones , it doesn't count groups like the Kahane offshoot "hilltop youth " who just park a couple of caravans surround them with razor wire and claim that they have just made more Israel .
The settler population has gone 22,000 in the west bank a short while back to 282,000 ,
East Jerusalem has gone from 76,000 to 184,000 and Golan has gone from 7,000 to 18,000 .
If you consider that an act of de-legitimising settlement you have a rather strange view of things .
Furunculus
01-11-2009, 16:48
If the individual does not have confidence that his community will render decisions he can abide by then he should leave.
However I do recognise that the rest of the world treats Gazans as something akin to dog-dirt, a fact which makes it very difficult for a Gazan to leave his community if he cannot abide the decisions to be taken in his name.
I find myself with little sympathy for the Gazan people that elected Hamas, and a great deal of sympathy for those that did not.
How does someone leave if they are stuck in an open air prison ?
read. and. learn.
So if I was to write "a whale is a big mammal that lives in the sea"
you might respond with "airplanes can be big too"
Looks like a perfectly reasonable chain of association to me.
Just as the argument that all Gazans deserve punishment because some voted for Hamas (one of the wickedest fallacies I have read in some while, as even the hardest of hearts would be unable to stretch that to the 260+ children now dead) it is equally specious to say all Israelis approve of the cruelty being perpetrated by their government.
Generalisations, stereotypes and black/white arguments are precisely the root cause of all this grief - as is the time-honoured inability to recognise that every single victim on both sides had a life and dreams and hopes, just like we might.
:yes:
Tribesman
01-11-2009, 18:37
read. and. learn.
Learn what ?
That you bothered to make a statement even though you knew it was bollox .
I find myself with little sympathy for the Gazan people that elected Hamas, and a great deal of sympathy for those that did not.
Interesting , so you have sympathy for those who voted for a party that is riven by corruption and managed to put forward not a manifesto or a single policy statement despite the efforts of key people who are serving multiple life sentances for terrorism ?
Lets narrow it down shall we Furunculus , voters for which parties or which branches of which parties do you have sympathy for ?
BTW does that also mean you have little sympathy for Israelis who vote for the not very nice parties in Israeli elections ?
Would that mean its OK to bomb those Israelis because they must have asked for it ?
Furunculus
01-11-2009, 20:11
Learn what ?
That you bothered to make a statement even though you knew it was bollox .
Interesting , so you have sympathy for those who voted for a party that is riven by corruption and managed to put forward not a manifesto or a single policy statement despite the efforts of key people who are serving multiple life sentances for terrorism ?
Lets narrow it down shall we Furunculus , voters for which parties or which branches of which parties do you have sympathy for ?
BTW does that also mean you have little sympathy for Israelis who vote for the not very nice parties in Israeli elections ?
Would that mean its OK to bomb those Israelis because they must have asked for it ?
no, that you asked a stupid question that already had an explanation in the same post, about three lines down.
i have sympathy for those who did not vote for the people currently bringing armageddon down on the heads on Gazan's with their rocket attacks on israel.
Incongruous
01-12-2009, 00:21
"The pullout signalled a sea change in Israeli attitudes. After decades of conflict with their immediate neighbours, the Palestinians, Israelis were eager for an end to it all. Even the hardest of hard-liners, Ariel Sharon, had come around to the view that it was time to extricate Israel from the quagmire in the occupied territories, pull back to defensible borders and leave the Palestinians to fend for themselves, even if that meant the emergence of a Palestinian state that the Israeli right had resisted for so long."
What is wrong with that statement, it appears to be perfectly accurate? The only problem i can see with it is that you might find the statement difficult to wrestle into your; "teh evil j00's" argument...........
:laugh4:
If that satement seems to be totally accurate to you then I rest my case:smash:
Specifically the "sea change" part, what a load of wonk. To leave the Palestinians to fend for themselves? What?
What does that mean, that although these netter settlers have stolen land from families living there for over a millenia its ok because they were looking after them by allowing them the privelege of a refugee camp in Gaza? Get real...
Teh evil jews argument, yes I do hate Jews:laugh4: No matter that I have been refering to Israelis as a nationality, however your self imposed connotation of Israelis=Jews says more about your own perception of the world than it does my own:yes:
For you a Jew living in Hammersmith must be the same as an Israeli living in Tel Aviv:laugh4:
How odd.
Frag, all I can find is mass executions of Fatah, I can see no slaughters of random Gazans.
Banquo
I realise that there are a few brave Israelis whom disagree and have the balls to speek out about their nations policy on Palestinians, indeed I recently read a very good article in the New Statesman written by an Israeli journo and it was very good.
I should perhaps limit myself to Israel and not Israeli? I will try harder.
Oh, all you can find are mass executions of fatah members, ok I guess Israeli's are the bad guys after all.
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 02:17
Oh, all you can find are mass executions of fatah members, ok I guess Israeli's are the bad guys after all.
Fatah members ?
Do you mean foriegn backed and armed terrorists who tried to overthrow the elected government in a coup.:idea2:
Whats up Bopa couldn't you find videos of Fatah executing Hamas members in Gaza and the west bank during the little Palestinian civil war ?
anyway , has anyone enjoyed Israels latest propoganda video release .
The nasty Hamas people have booby trapped a school with explosives .
Despicable , how can they use their children as human shield like that .:furious3:
Oh but of course the school in question is really an abandoned derelict building that used to be a school .
Kinda ruins the propoganda angle doen't it .:oops:
i have sympathy for those who did not vote for the people currently bringing armageddon down on the heads on Gazan's with their rocket attacks on israel.
So you don't have sympathy for any supporters of the 3 main parties in the elections , nor two other parties who can be linked to attacks or the party that boycotted the elections .
So that means you have sympathy for people who voted for people like Third Way who Israel won't deal with because they won't recognise Israel as it is and insist on the right of return , actually didn't Israel decide to arrest politicians like that during the election because they didn't like their campaign .
Well that certainy narrows down you sympathies doesn't it .
Though I suppose that since 25% of the electorate didn't vote at all , those in East Jerusalem couldn't vote and much of the population is too young to vote then really you are quite sympathetic .
But hey lets be fair , you just mean those that voted for Hamas don't you .
So if Israel just bombs the hell out of those 10% and leaves the other 90% of palestinians alone it really would be doubleplusgood .:2thumbsup:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-12-2009, 02:26
Can't find anything of Hamas killing civilians? No?
WARNING: Some members may be disturbed by these images.
Hamas murdering innocents (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a5e_1231434273)
Hamas firing rockets from densely populated areas (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a23_1231430603)
Using human shields (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=351_1231430391)
Part One: Hamas and Civilians (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e42_1231416294)
Dear god Tribes. And dear god Bopa. You just don't want Hamas to be any less then the democratically elected government, the decision has been made. Hamas has killed thousands of people but it just doesn't matter if it isn't Israel that's doing it, I showed Bopa a video with over 30 unarmed people being mowed down before an already bullet torn wall but like water from a duck it just slides off 'this isn't what we agreed upon, all I see is mass executions of fatah'.
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 03:55
Dear god Tribes. And dear god Bopa. You just don't want Hamas to be any less then the democratically elected government, the decision has been made.
You still don't get it do ya Frag .
Some parts of Hamas are very nasty , some parts of Fahah are very nasty , some parts of the Israeli government and army are very nasty , but all you go on about is "its Hamas" .
Thats why its accurate to call you narrowminded . You are the one picking a particular bunch of nasty people and expressing support for them . Though to be honest you have picked out several groups of nasty people to express support for during this topic
An example being ....all I see is mass executions of fatah'.
You see what you want to see but don't actually look
Take the videos Mars posted as an example , the one of Hamas beating the fatah protesters , that protest was filmed the day after fatah was shooting hamas protesters:yes:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-12-2009, 03:56
Take the videos Mars posted as an example , the one of Hamas beating the fatah protesters , that protest was filmed the day after fatah was shooting hamas protesters:yes:
Oh, congratulations at avoiding the one of them shooting and beating wedding guests to death.
Proletariat
01-12-2009, 04:39
Why do Euros care so much?
Strike For The South
01-12-2009, 04:45
Why do Euros care so much?
It makes them feel important and enlightened. Really why they care about everything.
Incongruous
01-12-2009, 06:46
Whats up Bopa couldn't you find videos of Fatah executing Hamas members in Gaza and the west bank during the little Palestinian civil war ?
:
Tbh I didn't really go that far into it, despite my wish to join the army I found those videos a little upsetting, I just couldn't watch another video of men being knlt down and shot in the head, even if they were some fairly horrible sorts.
I must admit Mars I had not really used my initiative when looking up vids, it just never crossed my mind to search executions, or that such videos were on the internet, I was shocked.
Incongruous
01-12-2009, 06:57
Actually Mars, what the heck is this?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e42_1231416294
That video seems like a load of bull, with a bit of gold somehwere, but basically it seems that most of the truth has been rid of.
Perhaps Hamas would do better if the the Israelis and the West did not try to deliegitimise their democratic election? Blockade the Gaza strip into starvation? Stopped destroying government biuldings?
Incongruous
01-12-2009, 06:58
Why do Euros care so much?
Americans seem to care more, at least their checkbook does...
Shaka_Khan
01-12-2009, 07:04
Why do Euros care so much?
Why do you care about Iraq?
seireikhaan
01-12-2009, 07:13
Why do you care about Iraq?
Don't even pretend the amount invested by Europe in Israel compares to the amount the US leadership invested in Iraq. WE did not invade Iraq- "elected"(being that Bush did not win the popular vote) leadership took us into the war. Now we've got our future tied to it. Is Europe(that is, European peoples) invested in the future of Israel in such a way?
Shaka_Khan
01-12-2009, 07:19
Don't even pretend the amount invested by Europe in Israel compares to the amount the US leadership invested in Iraq. WE did not invade Iraq- "elected"(being that Bush did not win the popular vote) leadership took us into the war. Now we've got our future tied to it. Is Europe(that is, European peoples) invested in the future of Israel in such a way?
I didn't ask you. I asked the person who cared about "let's free Iraq" for a long time. I know that many Americans had the same opinion before the war. Either that or they thought Iraq had something to do with 9/11.
Anyway, what's wrong with talking about the Middle East? It's not as if we're having a fetish. Don't you think we wouldn't be having an Iraqi problem if people were more informative of Iraq?
seireikhaan
01-12-2009, 07:30
I didn't ask you. I asked the person who cared about "let's free Iraq" for a long time. I know that many Americans had the same opinion before the war. Either that or they thought Iraq had something to do with 9/11.
Anyway, what's wrong with talking about the Middle East?
I'm pretending to be European now. :beam:
First- How should I know where you're from when you hide your location?:smash:
Second- Perhaps those Americans believed the government when they stated there were WMDs in the possession of a guy like Hussein? I'm sure for enough Americans, that very thought, in the post-9/11 atmosphere was positively terrifying given the guy used chemical weapons on his own people.
Third- I believe the overall point was that it gets tiresome to see Euros belittling each over in divisive debate over something in which they've far less invested(except, perhaps, the UK) than the US. It seems, to an outsider, an exercise in pointlessness. Especially when no side is exactly a bunch of angels.
Shaka_Khan
01-12-2009, 07:45
Second- Perhaps those Americans believed the government when they stated there were WMDs in the possession of a guy like Hussein? I'm sure for enough Americans, that very thought, in the post-9/11 atmosphere was positively terrifying given the guy used chemical weapons on his own people.
...which shows how concerned about Iraq the Americans were. They considered Iraq as the same threat level as the 9/11ers and thus intervened. The people in this forum weren't even talking about intervening on Palestine or Israel.
This is why people should be more interested in what goes on outside their country instead of following whatever the top man says. Much of the world outside the US were following the IAEA.
Third- I believe the overall point was that it gets tiresome to see Euros belittling each over in divisive debate over something in which they've far less invested(except, perhaps, the UK) than the US. It seems, to an outsider, an exercise in pointlessness. Especially when no side is exactly a bunch of angels.
I just hope people will find a way to stop the violence that keeps on repeating. Sometimes I like to talk about the tragedies that I see when I can't do anything else about it.
seireikhaan
01-12-2009, 07:51
...which is why people should be more interested in what goes on outside their country instead of following whatever the top man says. Much of the world outside the US were following the IAEA.
Indeed, informed electorates are what should make the base of democracy. However, I think it rather logical that people would listen to the man they elected rather than some man they man a world away, from a psychological perspective.
I just hope people will find a way to stop the violence that keeps on repeating. Sometimes, I like to talk about the tragedies that I see when I can't do anything else about it.
With the exception of a few well done posts by the like of Seamus, "talk" doesn't really describe every single Israel/Palestine thread since the inception of a backroom here. "Talk" would be great. Unfortunately, we tend to get treated to a mix of trolling, defiance, finger pointing, and blind nationalism instead.
Shaka_Khan
01-12-2009, 07:55
Indeed, informed electorates are what should make the base of democracy. However, I think it rather logical that people would listen to the man they elected rather than some man they man a world away, from a psychological perspective.
Now they know better.
seireikhaan
01-12-2009, 07:57
Now they know better.
One would hope.
Incongruous
01-12-2009, 08:07
Third- I believe the overall point was that it gets tiresome to see Euros belittling each over in divisive debate over something in which they've far less invested(except, perhaps, the UK) than the US. It seems, to an outsider, an exercise in pointlessness. Especially when no side is exactly a bunch of angels.
Well, this is the Backroom.
It is kinda for debate...
seireikhaan
01-12-2009, 08:18
Well, this is the Backroom.
It is kinda for debate...
This thread is not an example of debate...
Incongruous
01-12-2009, 08:41
This thread is not an example of debate...
No, it is a HEATED debate.
You still don't get it do ya Frag .
Some parts of Hamas are very nasty , some parts of Fahah are very nasty , some parts of the Israeli government and army are very nasty , but all you go on about is "its Hamas" .
It's hamas who keeps firing rockets so yeah it's Hamas.
You must mean this by the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLqblKog34o&feature=related
That happened and yes Hamas militants were shot by Fatah militants.
Why do Euros care so much?
The socialist party calling for intifada in pro-hamas demonstrations with the always snappy 'Hamas Hamas all jews to the gas' makes me somewhat uneasy
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 09:36
Oh, congratulations at avoiding the one of them shooting and beating wedding guests to death.
Actually that video was so crap it had me laughing at the commentator , but the second one is even more of a joke , well done Mars .
Why do Euros care so much?
Perhaps because the long running ongoing situation feeds terrorism worldwide which effects nearly everyone .
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 09:57
It's hamas who keeps firing rockets so yeah it's Hamas.
No Frag it isn't , recent rockets hitting Israel have been fired by Hamas , Fatah , Islamic Jihad , PRC , PFLP ,PFLP-GC , DFLP and one attack by a group calling itself Badr ...oh and of course the Israeli settler who launched a rocket but sent it the wrong way .
But of course you will read that , get as far as been fired by Hamas , and miraculously become instantly blind .:yes:
No Frag it isn't , recent rockets hitting Israel have been fired by Hamas , Fatah , Islamic Jihad , PRC , PFLP ,PFLP-GC , DFLP and one attack by a group calling itself Badr ...oh and of course the Israeli settler who launched a rocket but sent it the wrong way .
But of course you will read that , get as far as been fired by Hamas , and miraculously become instantly blind .:yes:
Bollox, the rockets from Gaza where the Israeli military currently knitting carpets from beards are fired by Hamas, rockets do come from other parts as well, islamic jihad is from the north for example. There are splinter fractions but in Gaza Hamas is the big cheese.
Incongruous
01-12-2009, 10:27
Bollox, the rockets from Gaza where the Israeli military currently knitting carpets from beards are fired by Hamas, rockets do come from other parts as well, islamic jihad is from the north for example. There are splinter fractions but in Gaza Hamas is the big cheese.
The north? Where is that? Yorkshire?
rasoforos
01-12-2009, 10:27
the Israeli military currently knitting carpets from beards
very civilized...bravo...
The north? Where is that? Yorkshire?
North would be Libanon. And I don't know how bad things are in Yorkshire.
Americans seem to care more, at least their checkbook does...
Pretty much, even 350$ donated in that facebook group I saw.
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 12:37
islamic jihad is from the north for example.
wow . I honestly didn't think you were really that dumb
North would be Libanon
well that clearly takes the trophy for general ignorance
Tell me Frag , do you actually know anything factual about the situation ?
Islamic Jihad terrorists are based in Gaza and the west bank , that is where they attack from . The main split in islamic jihad under which the al-quds brigades fly their banner and rockets is based mainly in Gaza the vast majortiy of their recent attacks have been from Gaza . There are no reports from the IDF or Israeli government that I have seen of Islamic Jihad firing rockets from Lebanon .
Part of the main political leadership is however in exile in the "North" where it has its political offices but that is in Syria not Lebanon .
tibilicus
01-12-2009, 12:46
I'm going to say this one more time as some people still fail to see it.
Even if Israel considers its military campaign successful the fact is that as long as it imposes such harsh sanctions on Gaza, hamas or groups similar to it are just going to come back again and again and again. The fact the envoy to the Middle east, our very own former PM and other senior figures in the world choose to openly let Israel go ahead with these blockades and sanctions means no progress will ever be made. The only hope is that maybe the Obama administration might, unlike the Bush administration not actually veto any proposed UN article on aiding the people of Gaza economically or allowing Israeli blockades to go ahead.
To be honest I don't see any good or bad guys in this, just two groups to stubborn to admit their own faults. Israel needs to accept that it can bomb as many "hamas targets" as possible but until it stops having such a prejudiced and poor approach to its Palestinian neighbours and other Arab country's that these attacks are just going to resurface every 2 years costing both sides in lives and Israel in establishing itself as a respectful democratic nation.
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 13:00
oh, syria, my bad.
No Fragony , read the next line very slowly , it is only 4 letters so I am sure you can manage ...
GAZA
No Fragony , read the next line very slowly , it is only 4 letters so I am sure you can manage ...
GAZA
I already admitted that there are various splinter groups, but Hamas is the big cheese. It's like kung-fu movies 'I am flying bear from the house of the mountains' 'Í am creeping dragon from the house of the lake'
Hooahguy
01-12-2009, 13:17
the IDF found a map (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI1q3etFX2k&eurl=https://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk)
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 13:24
I already admitted that there are various splinter groups, but Hamas is the big cheese.
Ah but Frag you claimed that other splinter groups were launching rockets didn't you , and that Islamic Jihad were not operating from Gaza but launching their rockets from lebanon didn't you .
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
the IDF found a map (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI1q3etFX2k&eurl=https://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk)
Thats me convinced! Of what I'm not sure....
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 13:31
Hooah , when you consider how many times the IDFna site has been exposed for blatantly lying during the past3 weeks how wise do you think it is to keep posting their stuff ?
Ah but Frag you claimed that other splinter groups were launching rockets didn't you , and that Islamic Jihad were not operating from Gaza but launching their rockets from lebanon didn't you .
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Wasn't the rocket that came from Libanon claimed by Islamic Jihad? Rockets have been fired from Syria as well, but Gaza is Hamas-country, might be more vermin active there but Hamas is the chief organisation. My scource says that the Islamic jihad leaders were expelled to Libanon in 1988 by the way, and that they are active in both Libanon and Jordan, and yes also Gaza.
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 14:15
Wasn't the rocket that came from Libanon claimed by Islamic Jihad?
No Frag those rockets were claimed by the PFLP-GC .
My scource says that the Islamic jihad leaders were expelled to Libanon in 1988 by the way
Yes and 13 years ago the leaders moved to Syria , please keep up to date .
and that they are active in both Libanon and Jordan
Yes , they have carried out attacks in both those countries , because they don't like the governments and they don't like some of the other terrorists there , that however is not launching rockets into Israel is it .
Rockets have been fired from Syria as well,
Have you ever considered working in constuction ? Groundwork would suit you as you are really very good at digging yourself into holes .
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/gaza/2009/01/syrie_schiet_op_israel.html
If your sources are right then mine are wrong; You understand dutch. So we have rockets from Libanon and gunfire (you are right no rockets) from Syria.
And gaza where hamas is king.
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 16:06
Wow Frag , someone took a couple of pot shots at an IDF vehicle carrying out work on its illegal "border" defences , hold the front page :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Tell you what for comparison why not add all the recent Israeli ceasefire violations on that "border" up and see how big the list is
Wow Frag , someone took a couple of pot shots at an IDF vehicle carrying out work on its illegal "border" defences , hold the front page :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
As if that would ever make the frontpage here, only dead palestinians do.
Funny development over here by the way, the socialist party who predictably called for the extermination of Israel and all of it's citizins is genuinly surprised that they aren't allowed to attend the Auschwitz memorial, even angry.
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 16:52
As if that would ever make the frontpage here, only dead palestinians do.
Errrrr...Frag its the 3rd most popular news article on the news website , it is on the front page
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Your shovel must be getting very worn out with all that digging yourself into holes you do .:yes:
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
01-12-2009, 16:56
Israel is the bad nations always! Lets feel sorry for the Palestinians! They just fighting to defend their lands aganist the evil Jews! Israel is power hungry, they invading Gaza for no reason!
Yea, BS. People always blame Israel when it takes action (becauses, lets face it, no other nation has the balls to do so). But if Hamas does something, I guess it is ok? :wall::laugh4:
HoreTore
01-12-2009, 17:03
Nice. Saw the press conference with Mads Gilbert and Erling Fosse, the only westerners present in Gaza, today, and they estimated that about 90% of the casualties in Gaza were civillians... Jolly good.
Errrrr...Frag its the 3rd most popular news article on the news website , it is on the front page
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Your shovel must be getting very worn out with all that digging yourself into holes you do .:yes:
That is because it's an independent non-funded website where we dutchies give our opinion, and that opinion generally is gogogo Israel give them hell and some more. We can be quite emotional.
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 17:10
Nice. Saw the press conference with Mads Gilbert and Erling Fosse,
Where is the entertainment in that ?
Watch Joe not the plumber do his rant in Sderot , its hilarious .:2thumbsup:
Do you think there is any chance of sending Palin out there for a really good laugh ?
HoreTore
01-12-2009, 17:13
Where is the entertainment in that ?
Watch Joe not the plumber do his rant in Sderot , its hilarious .:2thumbsup:
Do you think there is any chance of sending Palin out there for a really good laugh ?
Well.... There is a certain fun in seeing them respond to people questioning their integrity, etc...
But then again, I actually didn't watch it for the laughs, believe it or not :clown:
Hooahguy
01-12-2009, 17:17
Nice. Saw the press conference with Mads Gilbert and Erling Fosse, the only westerners present in Gaza, today, and they estimated that about 90% of the casualties in Gaza were civillians... Jolly good.
Mads Gilbert? the notorious hamas apologizer and socialist? im not surprised he said that.
HoreTore
01-12-2009, 17:28
Mads Gilbert? the notorious hamas apologizer and socialist? im not surprised he said that.
Oh yes, we socialists are soooo scary. But I suppose you've been in Gaza, or have any non-socialist sources who've been there who disagrees with his statements?
And do note, Mads Gilbert isn't a socialist, he's a die-hard communist, a former member of AKP(workers communist party) and current member of Rødt(Red). Erling Fosse(the surgeon) isn't that political, though still a leftie(and also a colonel in the norwegian army - like every other hippe...).
Gilbert's an activist, of course. That's why he's there, saving more lives than the scumbags who accuse him of lying will do in their entire lifetime. Watching the idiot representatives from the state of Israel claiming that "he gets his information from Hamas" is a slap in the face of every intelligent form of life on this planet. He hasn't been outside of the hospital, and he hasn't reported anything other than what he has seen there. But, as Gilbert says, they didn't want this job. They went there to work as doctors, to save lives. It's the state of Israel who destroyed the freedom of speech and made it their obligation to tell the world what's going on. They didn't choose it, they would've been more than happy to leave that job with professional journalists, but as we know, Israel is keeping them out to keep the truth about what is going on from the world.
Mads Gilbert? the notorious hamas apologizer and socialist? im not surprised he said that.
Speaking of socialists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23bM58hhFk8
"Intifada intifada", on the background 'hamas hamas all jews on gass'. The 'lady' on the right wanted 6 million autographs, I know her, her dad was married to my grandma she's trash.
Socialists.
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 17:34
That is because it's an independent non-funded website where we dutchies give our opinion
Ah so your little news source has a really minor event while a quick look at the main Dutch publications gives stories like
Olmert claims they are winning and Livni says objectives are being achieved .
Another runs with the vote in Geneva by the human rights council .
One goes with the IDF reservist refusing to serve in Gaza .
And finally another goes with its top story about the conflict being the synagogue firebombed in Paris .
So it seems that your claim about the Dutch press doen't hold water , but hey if you prefer a source where people can get emotional and shout gogogo Israel thats your perogative , but it certainly speaks volumes about your narrow outlook .
So it seems that your claim about the Dutch press doen't hold water , but hey if you prefer a source where people can get emotional and shout gogogo Israel thats your perogative , but it certainly speaks volumes about your narrow outlook .
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
If they don't press their legs together we would all drown. Yes I am pretty narrowminded when it comes to organisations that want to whipe out an entire country and it's people, I admit, I am guilty. But of what really.
Incongruous
01-12-2009, 17:56
Mads Gilbert? the notorious hamas apologizer and socialist? im not surprised he said that.
:laugh4:
As opposed to what?
Ariel Sharon? The notorius phalngist apologiser and right wing mass murderer? Well Im never surprised by Israel these days.
Loved that video by the way, was that a hired actor?
I'm talking about the map of coarse.
Why would you post a image like that? Keep that stuff to yourself or make a link.
Watchman
01-12-2009, 19:03
So, again, I take it "we can be quite emotional" is Dutch for "I/we* incoherently hate Muslims"...? 'Cause that's what your argumentation is again becoming, Frags. Incoherent.
*Frags being about the only identified Dutchman I've spoken with, generalisations are probably uncalled for...
Why would you post a image like that? Keep that stuff to yourself or make a link.
To give a little perspective of what exactly people are so very very willing to defend. Scum. Absolute scum.
So, again, I take it "we can be quite emotional" is Dutch for "I/we* incoherently hate Muslims"...? 'Cause that's what your argumentation is again becoming, Frags. Incoherent.
Well you will just have to forgive me for finding stuff like this deeply disturbing, but that is what it is, deeply disturbing. And you lefties cheer for it or find ways for not having to.
rasoforos
01-12-2009, 19:11
Fragony...and that pic makes sense how?
It reminds me of the Chewbaka defense from Southpark
There is no point in this thread at the moment. For the past 5 pages its been the same and it has mostly devolved into incoherent or off-topic statements and posts...
...I would humbly suggest we let other people talk. Its been Fragony/Other Person Pissed at Fragony/Fragony again/A Different Pissed off Person/etc etc...for pages and pages now...you guys get the point...
HoreTore
01-12-2009, 19:11
Nah Watchman, Fragony is making perfect sense. He supports killing 284 innocent children and injuring around 1500 more because some people kill innocent people. Makes perfect sense.
:dizzy2:
Fragony...and that pic makes sense how?
That makes sense since that is what you are defending, what do you know about hamas? They are religious nutjobs that want sharia law. They kill people at weddings, pour gassoline over them and burn them alive, cut their throats while their children watch, what on earth would convince you that Hamas are really really bad people?
Nah Watchman, Fragony is making perfect sense. He supports killing 284 innocent children and injuring around 1500 more because some people kill innocent people. Makes perfect sense.
I think Fragony's position and comments on this thread are very useful. They mirror, and make about as much moral and actual sense as the Israeli governments own position.
"Some rockets have been fired from a place we have repeatedly bombed and blockaded. They have resulted in a handful of deaths. We are therefore going to bomb thousands of men, women and children - killing a thousand or so, to er... win.... er...."
HoreTore
01-12-2009, 19:30
I think Fragony's position and comments on this thread are very useful. They mirror, and make about as much moral and actual sense as the Israeli governments own position.
"Some rockets have been fired from a place we have repeatedly bombed and blockaded. They have resulted in a handful of deaths. We are therefore going to bomb thousands of men, women and children - killing a thousand or so, to er... win.... er...."
I loved it when they said "those children were Hamas-children"....
That makes sense since that is what you are defending, what do you know about hamas? They are religious nutjobs that want sharia law. They kill people at weddings, pour gassoline over them and burn them alive, cut their throats while their children watch, what on earth would convince you that Hamas are really really bad people?
Ignoring the 'facts' of these statement - how is bombing and killing hundreds of men, women and children going to help?
Crime - innocent people get killed and injustices are committed by Hamas
Punishment - kill more innocent people
:dizzy2:
Ignoring the 'facts' of these statement:
You are welcome to ignore it, I, much unlike you, know people who are actually from there you wouldn't believe how much of a bunch of filth they are they burn people in front of their children's eyes it's sick as can be.
But go on condemning Israel.
HoreTore
01-12-2009, 20:00
You are welcome to ignore it, I, much unlike you, know people who are actually from there you wouldn't believe how much of a bunch of filth they are they burn people in front of their children's eyes it's sick as can be.
Uhm.... You actually think you're the only one with palestinian friends?
I don't know any child-killing woman-beaters though.
EDIT: or that is, I know abusive males, but they're all ethnic norwegians. Don't know any child-killers though, so I guess you've go me there...
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 20:05
Fragony just doesn't understand , it is himself that is defending and supporting crazy nuts , and for the most part he is doing it with invented "facts" and completely irrelevant crap .
Actually throughout the topic I get the distinct impression that he hasn't got the faintest idea what he is argueing against or for .
what is really funny is that he says things like what do you know about hamas? when he has repeatedly demonstrated that his knowledge of Hamas or any of the other Palestinian and Israeli groups is so full of holes you could drive a whole fleet of United Nations aid trucks through the gaps .
Seamus Fermanagh
01-12-2009, 22:43
Many pages "full of sound and fury...."
Basic issue has not changed. Current Israeli efforts in Gaza are either a) way too much because all they will do is incite more of the same while providing only a temporary attentuation OR b) way too little because using violence as the tool-of-choice here is only likely to be effective if pursued at near-pogromattic levels.
What they ARE doing is more of the same -- another round of the Gaza Gavotte.
I loathe this.
Consider:
You are playing M2TW and have a unit of spear militia facing an enemy unit of town militia on an open grassy plain.
You keep circling, trying to flank them, but all they do is shift front to face you nose to nose.
Once you have done this once or twice, don't you do SOMETHING differently? Or do you always go after the town militia the same way, wondering why they won't stand still and let you flank them?
Why has Israel and the IDF not absorbed this lesson? Is there some Israeli power-cadre or sect that benefits in Israel's internal power-dynamic from promoting violence without resolution? Such factions certainly exist among the Arab/Palestinian groups, so it is easy to see why they always have someone willing to encourage Israel to attack. Why does Israel follow suit so predictably?
And yes, the last paragraph are serious questions, not trolling. Trolling is not my style. I'd particularly like to hear from some of our Israeli members on this issue.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-12-2009, 23:02
Actually that video was so crap it had me laughing at the commentator , but the second one is even more of a joke , well done Mars .
How is it a joke? Because you don't like the commentary, or because you enjoy Hamas killing wedding guests?
Watchman
01-12-2009, 23:06
Why has Israel and the IDF not absorbed this lesson? Is there some Israeli power-cadre or sect that benefits in Israel's internal power-dynamic from promoting violence without resolution? Such factions certainly exist among the Arab/Palestinian groups, so it is easy to see why they always have someone willing to encourage Israel to attack. Why does Israel follow suit so predictably?The hardline Zionist true-believers ? You know, the "Biblical Israel" crowd that refuses to believe the idea unviable and unrealisable ?
Basic issue has not changed. Current Israeli efforts in Gaza are either a) way too much because all they will do is incite more of the same while providing only a temporary attentuation OR b) way too little because using violence as the tool-of-choice here is only likely to be effective if pursued at near-pogromattic levels.
What they ARE doing is more of the same -- another round of the Gaza Gavotte.
Well put.
Tribesman
01-12-2009, 23:34
Many pages "full of sound and fury...."
Hey come on , its fun . Its reminicent of the old Iraq topics where some people were only able to keep repeating "you love Saddam" as their version of a thoughtful response .
And yes, the last paragraph are serious questions, not trolling.
Really ?:eyebrows:
Seamus you know the answer to your questions , such simple questions .
How is it a joke? Because you don't like the commentary, or because you enjoy Hamas killing wedding guests?
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
You really should check your sources before you take what they say as true , but hey the dramaqueen commentary should have made you wonder at what was being portrayed
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-12-2009, 23:43
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Going to actually give an answer?
Guys, guys, calm down! Everything's going to be okay! Joe the Plumber (http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/01/a_media_ban_would_do_average_j.asp) is in Israel right now, sorting it all out.
I'll be honest with you. I don't think journalists should be anywhere allowed war (sic). I mean, you guys report where our troops are at. You report what's happening day to day. You make a big deal out of it. I think it's asinine. You know, I liked back in World War I and World War II when you'd go to the theater and you'd see your troops on, you know, the screen and everyone would be real excited and happy for them. Now everyone's got an opinion and wants to downer–and down soldiers. You know, American soldiers or Israeli soldiers.
I think media should be abolished from, uh, you know, reporting. You know, war is hell. And if you're gonna sit there and say, "Well look at this atrocity," well you don't know the whole story behind it half the time, so I think the media should have no business in it.
But wait, it gets better (http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/joe-the-plumber-exposes-blatantly-pro-hamas-israeli-reporter/):
JOE: The story here is people are being killed and the media’s slanting it and trying to make it Hamas is, uh, as far as, that Israel’s being bad. Do you believe Israel is bad?
REPORTER: Do I believe it?
JOE: Yeah, do you?!
REPORTER: I’m Israeli, so…
JOE: So answer the question!
REPORTER: No, I don’t think Israel is bad.
JOE: Do you think Israel has every right to protect itself?
REPORTER: Yeah.
[pause]
JOE: You do?!
REPORTER: Yeah.
JOE: Have you said that on air?
REPORTER: I’m just a reporter.
Hooahguy
01-12-2009, 23:57
Guys, guys, calm down! Everything's going to be okay! Joe the Plumber (http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/01/a_media_ban_would_do_average_j.asp) is in Israel right now, sorting it all out.
I'll be honest with you. I don't think journalists should be anywhere allowed war (sic). I mean, you guys report where our troops are at. You report what's happening day to day. You make a big deal out of it. I think it's asinine. You know, I liked back in World War I and World War II when you'd go to the theater and you'd see your troops on, you know, the screen and everyone would be real excited and happy for them. Now everyone's got an opinion and wants to downer–and down soldiers. You know, American soldiers or Israeli soldiers.
I think media should be abolished from, uh, you know, reporting. You know, war is hell. And if you're gonna sit there and say, "Well look at this atrocity," well you don't know the whole story behind it half the time, so I think the media should have no business in it.
But wait, it gets better (http://firedoglake.com/2009/01/12/joe-the-plumber-exposes-blatantly-pro-hamas-israeli-reporter/):
JOE: The story here is people are being killed and the media’s slanting it and trying to make it Hamas is, uh, as far as, that Israel’s being bad. Do you believe Israel is bad?
REPORTER: Do I believe it?
JOE: Yeah, do you?!
REPORTER: I’m Israeli, so…
JOE: So answer the question!
REPORTER: No, I don’t think Israel is bad.
JOE: Do you think Israel has every right to protect itself?
REPORTER: Yeah.
[pause]
JOE: You do?!
REPORTER: Yeah.
JOE: Have you said that on air?
REPORTER: I’m just a reporter.
:laugh4:
joe..... what have you done....
:laugh4:
Watchman
01-13-2009, 00:22
...
...wow. The dude has a future career as a stand-up comedian. :yes:
Furunculus
01-13-2009, 00:47
Hey come on , its fun . Its reminicent of the old Iraq topics where some people were only able to keep repeating "you love Saddam" as their version of a thoughtful response .
i dunno, i just got the impression that most people had never actually lived in a dictatorship, and had no idea on the casual destruction that a despotic regime can have on civil society.
Tribesman
01-13-2009, 01:35
Hey Furunculus , just because olmert is the offspring of terrorists and was raised in the revisionist zionist model it isn't fair to call him despotic , its not like he is facing indictment for corruption and decided to start a popular slaughter just to boost his election prospects is it .
Such actions would be tyranny
ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88
01-13-2009, 01:44
So if Israel attacks Gaza Tribesy to defend herself, it is a "popular slaughter", but if Hamas attack Israel, it's ok? :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Sure, If you facing charges, yea, Olmert might be taking advtange of this, but still. If some group is attacking your nation, regardless of if you are going to court, it must be dealt with.
Hooahguy
01-13-2009, 02:01
Hey Furunculus , just because olmert is the offspring of terrorists and was raised in the revisionist zionist model it isn't fair to call him despotic , its not like he is facing indictment for corruption and decided to start a popular slaughter just to boost his election prospects is it .
Such actions would be tyranny
funny how you treat your own revisionist views as the truth even though you know its false.... :shame:
Tribesman
01-13-2009, 03:58
So if Israel attacks Gaza Tribesy to defend herself, it is a "popular slaughter", but if Hamas attack Israel, it's ok?
Have a glass of warm milk and go back to sleep , you seem to have had some strange dreams .:dizzy2:
funny how you treat your own revisionist views as the truth even though you know its false....
What was false there ?
Were his parents associated with a terrorist group ? yes
As a child was he a member of a terrorist linked revisionist zionist youth movement ? yes
Is he facing indictment for corruption ? yes
Has he followed the usual bread and circuses routine of putting on a big military show to boost his seriously damaged popularity rating in the run up to the election ? yes
Hooah , you have demonstrated throughout the topic how little you know about Israel , you have written piles of tripe that is clearly and easily demonstrated as false , yet you have the front to accuse others of falsehoods when you don't even know what you are talking about .
It would be a nice change if you actually thought just a little bit before you just spouted rubbish .
...wow. The dude has a future career as a stand-up comedian. :yes:
See the man in action. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJYCxj8KXjQ) He really is comic relief.
Incongruous
01-13-2009, 05:12
If some group is attacking your nation, regardless of if you are going to court, it must be dealt with.
:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4: :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:
Is that support for the numerous Palestinian resistance movements? :dizzy2:
You do realise that all that Israeli land used to be Palestinain land? Until they were attacked by a bunch of machine-gun armed terrorist nutters called zionists? Does this thus mean, that the Palestinains are right to be fighting back against these crazy wackos from Eastern Europe, Central Europe and America?
Banquo's Ghost
01-13-2009, 08:44
Well, I am glad I waited until Joe the Plumber turned up, because now we have the definitive analysis of the conflict, all that is left is the bickering.
I'm sad to say that this thread has not exactly made it to the Hall of Backroom Fame and for the last few pages has contained little but snide remarks and rudeness.
No doubt this subject will arise again soon, but when it does I will expect a much higher standard of respect for contributors. It is possible to disagree passionately without trying to humiliate or embarrass.
Please familiarise yourselves with the forum rules again, because next time I shall issue points rather than advice. If I have to control bad behaviour by sending a few to the sin-bin then so be it.
Thanks you for all constructive contributions. In amongst the beastliness, I have learned a lot.
:bow:
:closed:
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