View Full Version : Stories to Live Your Life By
Strike For The South
01-01-2009, 21:14
I'm doing some introspecting thumbing through my good book and I came across the story of Job. I heard this story as a child in sunday school and couldn't wrap my head around it but now I think I finally get it.
I really like this story.
]In ancient times, east of Palestine, there lived a righteous man by the name of Job. He was a just and good man, who always strove to please God throughout his life. The Lord rewarded him for his piety with great wealth. He had many hundreds of large and thousands of small cattle. His large and close family of seven sons and three daughters comforted him.
But the Devil was jealous of Job. He began to vilify him before God, "Doth Job fear God for nothing?... But put forth Thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse Thee to Thy face." Then God, in order to reveal to all how faithful Job was to Him and in order to teach people patience in their sufferings, permitted the Devil to take away all of Job’s possessions. One day robbers came and drove away all his cattle, slew his servants, and a terrible tornado from the desert destroyed the house in which Job’s children had gathered together, killing them all. Job not only did not complain against God, but he said, "God gave, and God hath taken away, blessed be the name of the Lord."
The Devil, put to shame, was not satisfied with this. Again he began to slander Job, "All a man hath will he give for his life. But put forth Thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh (that is, strike him down with disease), and he will curse Thee to Thy face." God permitted the Devil to deprive Job even of his health, and Job was stricken with the most terrible disease — leprosy. Then even his wife began to persuade him to complain against God. His friends, instead of consolation, only further grieved the innocent sufferer with their unjust suspicions. But Job remained firm, did not lose hope in the mercy of God and only begged the Lord to testify that he was suffering in innocence.
In his discourse with his friends, Job prophesied about the Redeemer and of the future resurrection: I know that my Redeemer liveth and on the last day He shall raise from the dust this my corrupted skin, and in my flesh I shall see God. I shall see Him myself; mine eyes, and not the eyes of another, shall behold Him (Job 19:25-27, Septuagint).
After this, God, having shown to all the example of devotion and long-suffering in His servant Job, appeared Himself and commanded his friends, who had regarded Job as a great sinner, to ask for prayers from him for themselves. God rewarded His faithful servant. Job regained his health. He had seven more sons and three daughters, gained back twice as much cattle as he had before, and lived another one hundred and forty years in honor, quietly, piously and happily.
Hosakawa Tito
01-01-2009, 21:50
Hmmm, stubbornly endeavoring to persevere against cattle rustlers, tornados, armed robbery, family rubbed out. Sounds like a Texan's plot for a John Wayne movie. :2thumbsup: OMG, Job is an ancient Texan! No wonder you love that story!
Askthepizzaguy
01-01-2009, 23:33
God murders Job's family in order to satisfy a bet with the Devil. He kills a pious man's family in order to impress Evil incarnate.
Cute!
Strike For The South
01-01-2009, 23:34
God murders Job's family in order to satisfy a bet with the Devil. He kills a pious man's family in order to impress Evil incarnate.
Cute!
You have missed the point entirely
Askthepizzaguy
01-01-2009, 23:38
Perhaps. But maybe I derive a different point and a different conclusion from this story than others do.
I'm not mocking you, and if you like I can leave your thread alone in peace... my loud mouth and ever-copious opinions are stated plainly elsewhere. It's not my intention to make this place hostile to people of faith.
I have other examples of Biblical cruelty and horrible behavior condoned by the Old Testament God, but perhaps it would be better in another thread.
:bow:
Yeah the morale of this story is that even if you do everything right your still liable to get screwed. And that god doesn't give a :daisy: about you.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-02-2009, 00:42
Or that if you have faith in God, you will be rewarded by Him regardless of the suffering you may pass through?
Nope, that is far too preposterous to even be considered.
Lord Winter
01-02-2009, 00:44
Don't we have enough religon bashing threads going?
There can never be too many of those.
Lord Winter
01-02-2009, 00:51
Do we need to hijack this one to make it five? If you want to go at the hiprocracy of the bible, make a new thread.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-02-2009, 00:51
Nope, that is far too preposterous to even be considered.
Then you obviously don't believe it anyway, it doesn't effect you, and your mind is even not open to the possibility.
Not that I'm closed to the possibility. But you'd have to show me proof. I'm not capable of faith.
Askthepizzaguy
01-02-2009, 01:30
Do we need to hijack this one to make it five? If you want to go at the hiprocracy of the bible, make a new thread.
Even I'll agree to that. I probably should have kept my big mouth shut.
I don't mean to bash every religion thread I come across, the above was only meant to be a quick comment on the irony of the situation of the Old Testament.
I encourage my fellow non-faithful to take our protests elsewhere, because it's the decent thing to do.
Apologies for the intrusion. :bow:
Gregoshi
01-02-2009, 07:11
But you'd have to show me proof. I'm not capable of faith.
...Seek ye Faith in the Babe thread. She's got to be in there somewhere. :clown:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-02-2009, 07:14
Not that I'm closed to the possibility. But you'd have to show me proof. I'm not capable of faith.
Then why comment in the first place?
Why? Because it was there, and about one of those horrible biblical stories. You know the ones that try and show blind unthinking obidience as a good thing.
...Seek ye Faith in the Babe thread. She's got to be in there somewhere. :clown:
There is naught for me in that anorexic wasteland.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-02-2009, 07:41
Why? Because it was there, and about one of those horrible biblical stories
Maybe not trolling is a good idea?
Strike For The South
01-02-2009, 07:47
The moral is this. Earthly comforts don't always accompany a virtuous life and vice versa. It is easy to have faith when everything in your life is going great its much harder to do so when you hit a little adversity.
The Devil thought he could prove to God this and he was shamed. The story is also an example of Human ignorance on the topic of God. Rational beliefs are fine for governments but not for Gods and thats were many non-belivers get there jollies saying that the flock is just a blind sheep when in reality they are just missing the dad gum point .
rasoforos
01-02-2009, 08:27
This is noooot going to end up well...
The story is just begging to be used as trolling matterial and we allready reached the 'non believer' and 'ingorance' level before page one is full. We are now close to the 'godless heathens' and 'flock of sheep' level.
Banco is gonna throw a fit...
Tempting as it is I am going to not comment on this story. This is my good act for 2009. It morally entitles me to be a total :daisy: for the rest of the year.
CountArach
01-02-2009, 10:52
...Seek ye Faith in the Babe thread. She's got to be in there somewhere. :clown:
You have obviously never read lars' posts in the Babe Thread :wink:
Vladimir
01-02-2009, 15:42
Nope, that is far too preposterous to even be considered.
Come on everyone, leave Lars alone. I found this pretty funny! :laugh4:
ICantSpellDawg
01-02-2009, 17:19
Hmmm, stubbornly endeavoring to persevere against cattle rustlers, tornados, armed robbery, family rubbed out. Sounds like a Texan's plot for a John Wayne movie. :2thumbsup: OMG, Job is an ancient Texan! No wonder you love that story!
Hahahaha. That's good.
I like the story of Job.
Lorenzo_H
01-02-2009, 17:21
If every thread we had played out this way this would be a lame place to have discussions.
I personally think we can learn a lot from the story of Job. Which is not to be affected by what men say, and by not having your values swayed by unfortunate circumstances.
ICantSpellDawg
01-02-2009, 17:22
If every thread we had played out this way this would be a lame place to have discussions.
Discussions everywhere devolve into pettiness and disrespect. That's why I like them!
Nothing gets the blood pumping like attacking some people and defending others.
I think that most people actually get a kick out of the absurdity of others. Why else would we come back?
Gregoshi
01-02-2009, 20:06
You have obviously never read lars' posts in the Babe Thread :wink:
I've read lars' posts in the Babe thread, but that wasn't the point - it was just a lame pun on my part - period. :shame:
You have missed the point entirely
What, that God loves a stoic?
:wink:
Hosakawa Tito
01-02-2009, 23:58
What, that God loves a stoic Texan?
:wink:
Fixed!
Devastatin Dave
01-03-2009, 01:13
Here's 6 stories to live by....
http://www.tudy.ro/2008/02/25/six-funny-life-lessons/
Rhyfelwyr
01-04-2009, 00:56
Perhaps not surprisingly, I agree very much with the sentiment of the OP.
ATPG, you sound a little like a Cathar... :clown:
Askthepizzaguy
01-04-2009, 04:12
Cathar?
This book changed my life. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Fish_Two_Fish_Red_Fish_Blue_Fish)
To the OP, imagine that instead of your story saying "God" and "Satan". It said "Thor" and "Loki". Would you feel the same about it?
Rhyfelwyr
01-04-2009, 13:54
Cathar?
The heretics from southern France in the Albigensian crusade, they believed the God of the Old Testament was the devil, but followed Jesus and the NT teachings.
Askthepizzaguy
01-04-2009, 14:07
Learn something new every day.
I would point out that I don't believe in the New Testament either, though. :laugh2:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/vincent_pt/ronJeremyHardestWorking.jpg
this is the book I do my best to live by. :book:
Ja'chyra
01-05-2009, 09:49
And the moral of the story is:
Trust not in God for He will screw you over for a £5 bet with the Devil.
He also thinks it's a great laugh to kill your children as long as you can have more in the future.
LittleGrizzly
01-05-2009, 20:11
OT has a story containing a blood thirsty arrogant god... well theres a turn up for the books eh....
Remind me about this story next time someone mentions islam being an evil religion cos quran say this or that....
OT has a story containing a blood thirsty arrogant god... well theres a turn up for the books eh....
Remind me about this story next time someone mentions islam being an evil religion cos quran say this or that....
Theres a much better one in the OT. I cant remember where exactly but basically a man gives up his daughter (Was she his daughter or just a house guest?) to a angry crowd outside his door so they can rape her. I could be off on a detail but im pretty syre thats basically it.
Theres a much better one in the OT. I cant remember where exactly but basically a man gives up his daughter (Was she his daughter or just a house guest?) to a angry crowd outside his door so they can rape her. I could be off on a detail but im pretty syre thats basically it.
Lot gives his 2 daughters to be raped by the mob in Sodom (or was it Gomorrah?) to stop them from raping 2 male angels in human form......what´s the moral here?...rape is better to happen to a woman than to a man?....that´s a little sexist to say the least.....God also kills Lot´s wife simply because he takes a look back at the town as they are leaving (what a great guy!)...and then comes the incest part.....it´s like Old Testament 90210!!!
There is an impressively similar story in chapter 19 of the Book of Judges (where they so desperate for ideas that they had to copy themselfs???).....a priest is traveling with his concubine and they are taken in by a good man and his daughter...once again the mob of the town come around the good man´s house and demand that the priest be given to them so they could get frisky with him......
the "good man" gives up his own daughter and the concubine of the priest to assuage the mob...
Judges 19:24
Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.
once again....enjoy yourselfs by raping and humiliating my daughter and this innocent woman...but leave my male guest alone.
one has to wonder why would anyone would want to place his hand on such a book when swearing an oath.....
Strike For The South
01-06-2009, 01:40
You really must try harder. If you took the time to read the bible instead of cherry picking quotes you would realize that Judges 19 is a culmanation of the Isrealites turning there back on God, and that giving his concubine is a very pagan thing to do. So even though he is a godly man in apperance in his soul he has mad peace with the pagan way of doing things.
Of course God commands none of this.
I dont have problems with atheists or agnostics or even people who try to disporve the bible. Just dont come at me with the weaksuace stuff in this thread. Have a clear understanding of what Christians believe and then argue with me. This whole "A bad thing happend so God is unpossible" is a tired song and dance.
You really must try harder. If you took the time to read the bible instead of cherry picking quotes you would realize that Judges 19 is a culmanation of the Isrealites turning there back on God, and that giving his concubine is a very pagan thing to do. So even though he is a godly man in apperance in his soul he has mad peace with the pagan way of doing things.
Of course God commands none of this.
I dont have problems with atheists or agnostics or even people who try to disporve the bible. Just dont come at me with the weaksuace stuff in this thread. Have a clear understanding of what Christians believe and then argue with me. This whole "A bad thing happend so God is unpossible" is a tired song and dance.
your mean just like you cherrypicked your reply?.....:wiseguy:
you totally ignored Lot's example.....or doesn´t the bible say that he was he the only "good" man in Sodom? Explaining why the angels save him and his family and lay waste to the rest.
LittleGrizzly
01-06-2009, 02:59
Have a clear understanding of what Christians believe and then argue with me.
I don't believe christians follow (or most) some of the dodgier stuff in the OT, my point about criticising it being there is part of my questioning of the validity of the bible and possibly the organised religion of christianity, i don't judge the followers of the religion by these things as they are seperate (as i will have to vehemently argue when the latest mistranslation of the qoran is mentioned)
Megas Methuselah
01-06-2009, 07:13
Explaining why the angels save him and his family and lay waste to the rest.
It really didn't matter much; his wife became a pillar of salt upon disobeying the order to not look back (literally) after fleeing the city. :laugh4:
Strike For The South
01-06-2009, 08:47
your mean just like you cherrypicked your reply?.....:wiseguy:
you totally ignored Lot's example.....or doesn´t the bible say that he was he the only "good" man in Sodom? Explaining why the angels save him and his family and lay waste to the rest.
Once agian the Isrealites have turned there back and fallen into sin. God said he would spare the city if he could find just 10 rightoues men.
Lot offers up his duaghters to be hospitable
His wife is killed because she disobeyed God directly.
Contary to popular belif dying is not the worst thing that happens to you.
Ja'chyra
01-06-2009, 09:03
Once agian the Isrealites have turned there back and fallen into sin. God said he would spare the city if he could find just 10 rightoues men.
Lot offers up his duaghters to be hospitable
His wife is killed because she disobeyed God directly.
Contary to popular belif dying is not the worst thing that happens to you.
Metthinketh a troll lurks here.
Funny though.
Once agian the Isrealites have turned there back and fallen into sin. God said he would spare the city if he could find just 10 rightoues men.
Lot offers up his duaghters to be hospitable
so you accept the view that the bible describes the man that offered his daughters up to the mob as a righteous man?
I am simply stating that a book that makes such value judgments is hardly the book one should wish to live one's life by.
His wife is killed because she disobeyed God directly.
Contary to popular belif dying is not the worst thing that happens to you.
Agreed....there is always day time television....*shudder*
What some people forget is that when your children die early they go to heaven earlier, which is a good thing, death for a christian should be nothing to be afraid of, Paul himself was looking forward to it because he knew he would go to heaven and be closer to God.
It's only bad for those left behind who will miss the dead persons.
Rhyfelwyr
01-06-2009, 12:26
Even if you only believed that the message conveyed in the Bible is divinely inspired, it is clear that the stories of the OT should not be taken as telling us how to act nowadays. The whole OT is the story of God guiding Israel out of iniquity, step by step. He chose them because they were a 'stiffnecked' people, and yet He reformed them anyway - showing us who's in control. Jesus said himself that he was filling in the gaps, taking people beyond living just by the laws, and acknoweldging their need for forgiveness. Jesus is the example of how to lead a righteous life, not Lot, or Abraham, or Noah.
LittleGrizzly
01-06-2009, 12:43
He chose them because they were a 'stiffnecked' people, and yet He reformed them anyway - showing us who's in control.
Mass murder and fear, methods used by hitler, stalin and God.
The whole OT is the story of God guiding Israel out of iniquity
Im not sure what you mean by this, but im not really sure it excuses a god of mass murder, i understand the adults may have been sinners (its debatable but im willing to accept for the sake of argument that every adult was full of sin) but you never hold the children accountable for the sins of thier fathers, countries battered by a terrible enemy (WW2) treated them far better than this God of the old testament did, i can only summise that winston churchill, truman and clement ? (unsure on french pm) are more forgiving and merciful than God...
Which is why atheism isn't such an unhappy prospect, whats better nothing or something big powerful and vengeful...
. Jesus is the example of how to lead a righteous life
I would agree there, but other than the Cathar's how do christians justify the vengeful god of the OT, and then how he suddenly turns into a nice god in the NT, when you add in the concept of god being perfect it just really doesn't add up to me.... not that this is an attack on christian beliefs i am just curious how you rationalise the whole thing...
Strike For The South
01-06-2009, 16:18
so you accept the view that the bible describes the man that offered his daughters up to the mob as a righteous man?
I am simply stating that a book that makes such value judgments is hardly the book one should wish to live one's life by.
Agreed....there is always day time television....*shudder*
People often confuse righteousness with there own moral code.
Askthepizzaguy
01-06-2009, 16:47
In spoilers, as it's mostly me babbling to myself about the stories of the Bible. No response is required.
An untimely death is never a good thing for a person to have to endure. Just because there may or may not be a heavenly afterlife, we should not look forward to death. Life is short, death is forever, so perhaps maybe we shouldn't be so hasty in embracing it.
If the belief is that death is a good thing for the righteous, would a sadistic maniac actually be doing you a favor by murdering your children? Of course not. Let's not be silly.
Of course, when discussing the supernatural, it's hard not to be silly. A man made up an entire absurd story about a trillion year old galactic warlord who infected the human race with spirits that escaped from the tortured victims of atomic bomb blasts, and today, it's treated with equal weight as the Old Testament. As well it should, I might add. We take both far too seriously.
Given how the Bible was written, assembled, edited, added to, taken away from, mistranslated, etc... it seems obvious that it's not THE WORD of God, if there is such a thing. Many people choose not to take it literally, which means it's open to interpretation, which means it cannot be considered binding law. The most literal interpretation is contradictory upon itself, logic and evidence. That leaves only the subjective interpretations, of which there are countless.
When something has no literal or objective meaning, only subjective meaning, it should not be considered law, but organized religion attempts to make it so, either the law of nations or the laws pertaining to its own community.
I would argue that a book of Aesop's Fables has as much to teach us as the Bible does, and it was written and assembled in much the same way, and should have as much weight in governing our lives. Cute stories, some of them horrifying, some of them absurd, and none of which to rule our consciousness as the unquestionable WORD of God.
But, that's a non-theistic view. Even accepting the idea of God and the afterlife, the conflicting accounts contained within the Bible itself, it's many different versions, predecessors, successors, cheap knock-offs, differing sects and denominations, and so on; only one view could possibly be correct. I simply don't think 99% of us are going to burn in hell for choosing the wrong faith. So it seems to me having a literal and 100% conforming viewpoint with any hypothetical "correct" faith should not be necessary.
If so, then why the big deal over religion? Can't we just be decent people who follow a standard, agreed upon moral code and have that be enough? MUST we follow ancient traditions, rituals, sing little songs and pray constantly to someone who has a "PLAN" for us all, but apparently will change it on a whim based on our little wishes? Is God a master planner or a genie in a bottle? If he doesn't answer all prayers (and he doesn't) then he has a plan. If he has a plan, then why bother praying? If it's merely enough to be a good person, why do we insist on teaching everyone our own exact precise and entirely subjective interpretation of something that at the end of the day is a private and harmless thing?
I don't see Buddhists conquering the world and enslaving us to serve the devil. To be honest they've been persecuted over the centuries quite a lot, and some of them HAVE to be decent people. If God doesn't want them in heaven, I don't want to be in his heaven. And if they are allowed in, then it's not necessary to do all these rituals and sayings and follow every tradition exactly, and if that's the case then not everything the Bible says is true, which means that other falsehoods are likely present, which means it cannot be the word of God.
Basically, if it's the word of God, I am hoping there is no afterlife. And if it's not, then we should really stop listening to it.
I didn't say the maniac is doing you a favour, he is doing your children a favour, he's only doing you a favour when he cuts your intestines out and hangs them on a line to dry while you can still watch the spectacle. It's not that hard to understand, or is it?
Askthepizzaguy
01-07-2009, 00:33
We are effectively one step away from murdering our children ourselves to ensure they get into heaven.
It makes sense... just be sure to baptize them first before you drown them in the... never mind, kills two birds with one stone.
Strike For The South
01-07-2009, 20:44
We are effectively one step away from murdering our children ourselves to ensure they get into heaven.
It makes sense... just be sure to baptize them first before you drown them in the... never mind, kills two birds with one stone.
How so? You realize why the Isrealites are the "Chosen people" right? The entire old testament is a parable for life. All the stories (sense or not) converge on a bigger message.
Ja'chyra
01-08-2009, 12:00
How so? You realize why the Isrealites are the "Chosen people" right? The entire old testament is a parable for life. All the stories (sense or not) converge on a bigger message.
Yep, your God given free will only applies as long as you do what He tells you, otherwise He's gonna git you sucka.
And your kids.
And your wife.
And your people.
And your big AND small cattle???????
Yep, your God given free will only applies as long as you do what He tells you, otherwise He's gonna git you sucka.
And your kids.
And your wife.
And your people.
And your big AND small cattle???????
the great late George Carlin caught this kind of dichotomy perfectly
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money!
Askthepizzaguy
01-09-2009, 10:28
How so? You realize why the Isrealites are the "Chosen people" right? The entire old testament is a parable for life. All the stories (sense or not) converge on a bigger message.
Hehehe... actually, to be fair, I was responding to the poster directly before me, and it was in jest. No offense was intended.
So now the whole old testament is just one big metaphor?
Strike For The South
01-11-2009, 00:49
So now the whole old testament is just one big metaphor?
Its the story of the Israelites and there trials and tribulations. It's not simply a collection of stories. There is an overall message.
Ja'chyra
01-12-2009, 09:32
Or its a collection of fictional works that the church use to keep the peasants in line with threats of "Do what we say or you will be smited (smitten? :clown:) by a fictional supernatural being that we speak to on your behalf, you have been warned", "Oh, and don't forget your tithe", "Oh another thing, all the good stuff, that's God, all the bad stuff is on you".
Rhyfelwyr
01-13-2009, 00:31
Or its a collection of fictional works that the church use to keep the peasants in line with threats of "Do what we say or you will be smited (smitten? :clown:) by a fictional supernatural being that we speak to on your behalf, you have been warned", "Oh, and don't forget your tithe", "Oh another thing, all the good stuff, that's God, all the bad stuff is on you".
If you want to criticize Christianity, one claim you cannot make against it is that it was just another organised religion used for the purposes of state control. Look at its history - the early Christians would have been little more than a rebellious cult in Judaea, then it become the religion of slaves and oppressed peoples within the Roman Empire. When the Roman Catholic Church did become firmly established, it could only use Christianity to maintain order (and it hardly succeeded anyway) so long as the peasants were kept from reading the Bible and actually understanding what it said. Inevitably, it could only be kept suppressed for so long, and so when people could freely read the scriptures Europe become split and chaos ensued. And of course causing violence is another mark branded against Christianity, although apparently contradictory to the one you made in your statement.
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