Disastrous Campaign as WRE

[Rhyfelwyr]

I've been playing BI as the WRE, on VH/M.

After about ten turns, I've managed to lose 5 settlements to the WRR, and I'm around 60,000 denarii in debt. Several cities need to be upgraded to the next level, but I have no money and they are about to Rebel. The Alemanni are about to take that settlement below them. Nobody wants a ceasefire except the Sarmatians. I may take one city back of the WRR, but I'm really stuck.

Has anyone else found playing as the WRE this impossible? I never had any problems with any factions in RTW... :embarassed:

[YouHaveRecieved]

This is because WRE is simulated in BI to be very hard as it is just about to fall and be destroyed in a few years. I suggest you try to play the Huns or ERE first them move up to Western Roman Empire.

[Quintus.JC]

Let them rebel, Rhyfelwyr. Then slaughter them as they deserve!

You have Received information that WRE is stimulated to be very difficult, it is true. As historically the empire did not last after the game begins. You face several problems right from the start: religious strife, the battle between Paganism and the newly introduced Christianity threatens to break the empire in two. Economical backward settlements that have little advanced structures. And also weak, overpayed axuallries on the empire's borders. All of the above and more problems needs to be confronted and dealt with, and WRE is most certainly the most difficult faction in the game, although not quite impossible.

You could always leave WRE alone and play with one of the easier factions, but ultimately one cannot be satisified with himself if one hasn't won the game with the hardest faction in the game.

If you do choose to restart the campaign, you will still be faced with trouble. You can't pay for all your levies and half your cities are in revolt. You debt increases by turn as you struggle to find the funds to pay for your 'troops' and deal with you settlements upgrades at the same time. The easy soultion to all this would be 'Exterminate' like you never exterminated before.

The easy way, destroy all garrison buildings in settlments that could not stablise, apart from Rome, Ravena and Carthage, these are your keyest cities. Without advanced barracks the best troops the rebel could muster is but a few units of peasants, plus all the destruction will bring you a healthy, however small amount of income on turn one.

Disaband any units you think that isn't worth their pay, bucellarii and them Christian priests are especially up for the sack early on. Set taxes to very high on dispensible provinces, I know they will rebel soon, but its the only way for them to stablise. Remember you can't handle it if every province went rouge, so make sure only a handful of provinces are given away very early on, most of the Iberian provinces makes perfect candidate, pull all garrision out of the settlements and merge them together into a serious force, and watch the settments rebel.

After the settlements have rebeled, you will be in serious debt. DO NOT worry as you will recuperate very soon. After the destruction of barraks all of the rebel soldiers should be nothing more than a handful of farmers with pitch folks, if they're lucky they might even have a rebel general. Move into the seige, assult and exterminate; this would calm the remaining citizens down, while raking serious cash at the same time, repeat this process until all settlements are happy and making money.

Outside incursions can't be avoided, though its possible to delay their eventual arrival. Factions that can be destroyed very early on is Allemeni, with only one province and no hord ability. Remember to disband unnessary units and split the rest into 2 parties. Those guarding the borders on the Rhine and the Alp strongholds. And the rest going around exterminating rebel settlements. The Huns and the rest don't arrive too early and should get their when you've stablised your economy, and you need to make a choice on religion too; unlike the ERE, who should totally convert every settlement to Christianity. The WRE campaign is wiser to built the temple according to the settlement's preferance, whether it is already a Christian tilted settlement or a pagan tilted settlement.

........................

That's all I can think of for now.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Thanks for the replies guys, good to know its not just me making the Empire crumble.

I'm down to 14 provinces at around 288 AD, although I'm about to lose another couple. I had thought before that I was safe, when the Goths and Huns both arrived simultaneously in northern Italy, with the Goths sacking Ravenna. So, I've since sent my armies there to fight them, and they're now both very weak. The Huns are currently taking one of my small eastern towns, but they're main horde force is heavily depleted. The main problems now aren't the horde teams, but the Celts who are currently storming through France with an amazing army. It looks like I could be reduced to just Italy, the nearby islands, southern France, and a few places north of the Alps. Every time I think I am consolodating things, some huge army pops up and steals my cities! :wall:

Still, I've got the money and the religious unrest sorted, and I've got a couple of decent armies on the patrol, I'll see how things go tomorrow...

[Mooks]

Bridges are your friends.

[coalition]

Welcome to Earth son.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Bridges are your friends.That's a very good point. At the start, both the ERE and the WRE have their lands surrounded by river crossings. If you can spare a few troops you can construct a fort/station some troops upon them to resist invasion from any forces coming across the river. I personally prefer the latter approach, finding if you loose the fort the takers can then use that against you - without a fort, the worst they can do is fling your troops back a few tiles, still leaving the crossing open with no need to undergo a huge battle to get it back.

~:)

[Quintus.JC]

Come to mention it, generals with night fighter traits are an asset too against the hordes.

[Emperor of Graal]

Come to mention it, generals with night fighter traits are an asset too against the hordes.
Yes very true, I found It very helpful.
Experienced generals and veterans with night fighter trait should target the young inexperienced
generals.I did this to the Goths as WRE and slowly their armies die away.
However the Huns are generally very experienced by the time they reach you but
Originally posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites That's a very good point. At the start, both the ERE and the WRE have their lands surrounded by river crossings. If you can spare a few troops you can construct a fort/station some troops upon them to resist invasion from any forces coming across the river. I personally prefer the latter approach, finding if you loose the fort the takers can then use that against you - without a fort, the worst they can do is fling your troops back a few tiles, still leaving the crossing open with no need to undergo a huge battle to get it back.
That is very true its what to do against hordes and normal factions.
The vandals and Huns arrive later than the Goths because they are normally first struck by the hordes.
I trapped the goths in until their armies were so small they could walk through my territories and act as is they were allies.That said its not a terribly good idea to let hostile factions walk through lands
unchallenged. (unfortunately the AI does not seem to grasp that)
Later on when your borders are safe look to the Eastern Roman empire to attack.
They have rebel problems.Although they are not in such dire trouble.
But beware of the Sassanid empire because they are dangerous and will be hostile also
you'll need a large stack of decent legions because they don't fool around with one unit of peasants
use it as border defense. Always beware of the Germanic tribes like the Franks and the Saxons
because they are dangerous.
Oh and how do stop the Romano British coming.
Every time the Saxons capture Londinium they come and invade the north at Erubacruam (?)
Not to mention I spend tons on defending against the Celts

[Rhyfelwyr]

I've finally destroyed the Goths and the Huns, and the Vandals are reduced to a small but annoying horde of mostly General's Bodyguards. Still, my Empire is stablish-ish at I think 16 provinces. I got all of Spain back from the WRR and it is now stable. Italy is also stable, although I have to keep an eye out for the stacks which the ERE keeps sending from Illyria.

My main threats are now the Saxons and the Celts, the latter insisting on leaving two full stacks right outside the Avaricum (sp?). Meanwhile, the Saxons keep hurling full stacks at an army of mine on the Rhine, I've fought so many bridge battles it's ridiculous. Carriage Ballistae are my new favourite unit of all time, they make so many kills they're on 6 experience after as many battles!

So, if I can contain the barbarian threat until I reconquer some a place in southern France sacked by the Vandals, then I can send my army up from there and hopefully gain some ground and consolidate France and western Germania. I'll also leave an army to contain the ERE, which is by far the most powerful faction (I actually become their Protectorate at one point just to stop them attacking my Italian heartland when it was defenceless).

Now that the Huns/Goths/Vandals are pretty much eliminated, should it get easier?

[Agent Miles]

This is way better:
This is my WRE blitz strategy (VH/VH, no mods and huge units). You don't have to abandon any of your settlements or butcher any of your own citizens or change anyone's religion. You start with 25 of the 34 settlements you need to win (as well as 3 of the 4 specific settlements). So do whatever you must to get at least blue faces everywhere. Move the capital to Masilia. Use urban renewal to scrape some cash together. Build forts blocking all crossing points into the WRE from the Rhine and the Danube and garrison them with a peasant unit. You can beat the Celts with what you have in England (hire mercenaries or add some local infantry if you must). Send the units in Syracuse to Carthage and the units in Spain to North Africa. You can easily crush the Berbers (again hire mercs). Disband most of the other units, except for an army on the Rhine and in Salona led by a loyal general. The Army of the Rhine takes out the Alemanni (who don't horde and aren't difficult to crush) and the rebel settlement to the north. Thessalonica and Constantinople are weakly held and can easily be taken by your other force at Salona. If you use spies to open the gates or onagers to batter them down, then you should be done before you can say eastern hordes. Victory after 16 turns in A.D. 370!
https://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q36/AgentMiles/WRE/?action=view&current=WRE370Victory.jpg

[Emperor of Graal]

Now that the Huns/Goths/Vandals are pretty much eliminated, should it get easier?
Yes it should. Remember to manage settlements and watch out for the Celts and Germanium tribes.
They are your threat now. Always make sure to have a good amount of money when at war with the
Celts. In my experience it takes a while to kill them. Set up a good decent strong full stack army and leave some units in Deva (?) Then Annihilate the Celts!!
Its really quite a cup of tea.:coffeenews:

[Quintus.JC]

I might it possible to go on the offensive against non-hordable factions, Allemeni and Saxons starts with few powerful troops and could be defeated rather easily. After their destruction it makes life easier in the future without these Barbarian factions to contend with and leaves you dealing with only the Stepp factions from the East.

[Emperor of Graal]

I might it possible to go on the offensive against non-hordable factions, Allemeni and Saxons starts with few powerful troops and could be defeated rather easily. After their destruction it makes life easier in the future without these Barbarian factions to contend with and leaves you dealing with only the Stepp factions from the East.
I have a campaign where thats what happened.
I would post the pictures in but I don't know how to get bmp files to be jpg :computer:

[Rhyfelwyr]

I shot down the last Vandal General's with my Carriage Ballisate (9 exp - :beam:), meaning the Vandals, Huns, and Goths are all now destroyed. However, the Slavs have now appeared on my northern borders, and are currently besieging the Frankish capital. However, I've now consolidated Iberia and most of Gaul, so my armies are sitting on some bridges to meet them should they think of attacking. I've also got an army defending northern Italy from the WRE/WRR, in addition to a tiny Roxolani stack, the remainder of their horde I think. I took back the settlements from the Saxons, right up to Campus Frisii, so they're now pretty much contained. If I hold off the Slavs, then I should get to send a couple of armies to take Britain and then that part of my empire will be secure...

[Emperor of Graal]

Well done Rhyfelwyr! you've changed Disastrous to Good. Have a :balloon2: for your signature

[Rhyfelwyr]

Well done Rhyfelwyr! you've changed Disastrous to Good. Have a :balloon2: for your signature

Why thankyou! :beam:

[DUSAN THE MIGHTY]

This is my blitz WRE strategy.This campaign was played on vh/vh.In your first turn you must transfer your capital to Massilia.Then you must disband all foederati cavalry and infantry units west of Massilia.Destroy all military buildings in all your settlements except Londinium,Augusta Treverorum,Rome,Carthage,Salona and Aqiuncum to get necessary cash.In all your settlements build only temples and ports.With Marcus The Gambler and with units from Augusta Treverorum and Augusta Vindelicorum attack Vicus Alemanni.After one turn of besieging Vicus Alemanni you must attack it and capture that settlement-exterminate it!With Placus The Horseman and units from Eburacum attack Dal Raida.In the next turn Celts will try to beat Placus while laying siege but you will easily beat them and you will capture Dal Raida-exterminate it.Move your units from Londinium next to Eburacum but don’t enter,leave Eburacum empty because Celts will bribe it.With those units next to Eburacum attack Eburacum and besiege it.Capture it but before you capture Tara.After capturing Dal Raida build there bireme and transfer your units to Ireland to besiege Tara in the next turn.Hire mercenaries and before capturing Tara ,capture Eburacum then Tara.With your assassin near Samarobriva kill family member in Campus Frisii and after killing him with units from Samarobriva and Colonia Agripina and with Nero Flavius besiege Campus Frisii.Don`t capture it until the last turn,if you don’t want to be attacked from Saxons.With Spirius Flavius and units from Aquincum capture Campus Quadi and after capturing it stay there 2 turns to prevent rebellion and after that attack and with units and Spirius Flavius from Campus Quadi capture Campus Marcomanni.Units from Carthago Nova transfer to Corduba and wait for the best moment to attack Tingi.When Berbers make their moves toward Carthage attack Tingi with those units and general from Corduba and hire some mercenaries.Transfer family member from Caralis to Carthage,because he is your best money maker.Change religion in Lepcis Magna to cristianity.In Salona recruit peasants turn after turn to avoid rebellion and attack from ERE.Comitatenses from Avaricum should be headed toward Vicus Frankii.Keep them going turn after turn.Your ultimate goal is to capture Constatinople.How?Be allies with ERE until the last turn at any cost. Comitatenses from Tarentum,Rome and Syracuse with your heir should capture Constatinople and units from Ravenna should capture Kydonia.For doing this you must be very lucky,I was.So in 365AD winter you should attack Constatinople,Kydonia and if you want Vicus Frankii.In the next turn capture Constatinople,Kydonia,Camus Quadi and if you can Vicus Frankii.It will be 366 summer and you will achieve victory.You don’t have to recruit any units except peasants but you must hire lots of mercenaries using my strategy.With starting 25 settlements you have to capture Vicus Alemanni,Del Raida,Tara,Tingi,Campus Quadi,Campus Marcomanni, Constatinople,Kydonia and Campus Frisii.All you need is luck and to be a great player.It’s not impossible give a try and you will complete campaign in 7 turns.Exterminate all captured settlements!Keep taxes as low as possible everywhere from first turn!

[Olaf Blackeyes]

Honestly all of these win campaign in 7 turns strats are CRAZY!!!! If you actually wanna play an interesting campaign try doing things like this.
Game settings H/M
First turn: Est time 15-20 mins
You need to start things off by moving your capital to Massalia because of it more central location within your empire. This cuts down on all of the distance to capital discrepancy that many of your outlying settlements have. Then you need to move that BIG army of comsitantes and other units (NOT THE FM) from Rome and onto Salona. This is because 90% of the first wave Hordes come in at Salona and if you can hold them there making them waste troops and time, you have a better ability to gather other forces to block them after they move away. Move Marcus the Gambler dude to attack and defeat the Alemanii, they cant horde so its an EASY 10k cash once you sack the settlement.
Also mass convert your empire to Christianity. This is due to 2 reasons. Firstly half of your empire is Christian the other half is pagan, so your going to have to convert to one or the other during the first turns to cut back on religious unrest. And with the regional conversion bonus you can have like a 20% conversion rate PER TURN in some settlements. Secondly, 2/3 of your starting FMs are Christian, so if you convert to paganism, you will have SIGNIFICANT unrest from the differential in FMs to population religions. If you are an expert player and want to try this go for it. But don't try this if you are a newb. The only settlement that i do not suggest converting is Syracuse. This is because it has no regions around it to add to its conversion rate, its governor is pagan, and it people are 70% pagan. Converting it would be a LONG and difficult road at this point so its best to save for later
Another thing to do is destroy ALL military building throughout your empire EXCEPT for the ones in Rome, Aquinum, Augusta Treverorum, Carthage and Colonia Agripinna. ABOVE ALL ELSE make sure these settlements DO NOT revolt under any circumstances at ANY point in your game. Slash taxes, hold daily games, move troops into them, WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET THE BLUE FACES AT LEAST. If they do revolt, your borders will be Wide open or Heavily under defended. I would say Salona too but that settlement usually doesn't make it. However keep that army from Rome moving towards it even if it does revolt. It usually has a loyalist revolt back towards your side, but if it doesn't RETAKE it with that army from Rome. And keep all of that heavy infantry there, when the nomads get there you will see WHY.
A side note, the provinces of Britannia/Albion. The Celts to the north will NEVER attack you here but you have nearly a full stack of troops between the 2 settlements. The reason for the large numbers of troops is that these two settlements are two of the most rebellious places on the map. Also they are amongst the least profitable and the lowest pop growth as well. What i do is outright abandon the place. The Romans did this in history for the same reasons i do it, its not worth the cost of hanging on to them right now, especially when you consider how BADLY you need those troops on the mainland. DESTROY ALL BUILDING IN THOSE TWO settlements, barracks, markets, ports, sewage, etc. Take all of your troops from both settlements and put them on the fleet in the English channel. However do built Christian shrines in both of them to begin the conversion process, and the WRR AI will allow it to continue so you don't need to worry about it. Take all of those troops and have them do the things you need done on the mainland. This also nets you a LARGE amount of cash.
In order to determine what settlements are not going to make it lower ALL TAXES for the first two turns. And start disbanding fleets that are useless like the Adriactic, and Tyrehian Sea fleets, the Atlantic fleet, and the Fleets south of Arles and Corduba. The other fleets are either going to be useful or you cant get them to a loyal port to disband them. Also disband ALL Catholic priest units and 90% of your cavalry. These cost WAY too much to maintain at the moment.
End turn
Turn Two
Est time 10 mins.
At this point it should be incredibly easy to tell which settlements are gonna rebel no matter what you do. They have stayed Red faced. Move ALL troops out of these settlements (INCLUDING FMs) and gather other forces into their armies, mercs, peasants, etc. If you do not do this then you will lose all of the troops in that settlement went the FM posted there revolts out of self interest. The fleet south of Syracuse should be moved to transport the troops on Syracuse (NOT THE FM) to Carthage and Leptis Magna to fight off the Berbers. Now you should be ready to take on the WRR when they appear next turn.
End turn
Turn Three
REVOLTS EVERYWHERE. By now Spain, half of Gaul, Salona, and Northern Italy should have revolted. These are where they usually occur for me. However as you will notice they are all peasant units, with their settlement FM to back them up. These are easy to take on, and take down. BESIEGE all of the revolting settlements immediately. DO NOT give them any time to rebuild any barracks cuz they will start pumping out troops that are harder to defeat. Retake these settlements ASAP and EXTERMINATE. This raises the public order significantly, and the settlement will also start turning a (?profit?) for some reason.
Turns Ten-Fifteen
This is generally when the Nomads show up outside of Salona. Beat them off with your army from Rome that should be garrisoning the settlement. See which way they go and train troops in Rome to stop them. The Foundries and Barracks of Rome produce troops that are NOT ONLY Armed with SILVER weaps and armor, but also have 1-2 chevs under their belt at the start. These guys can take on ANYTHING those smelly nomads throw at them. Use the choke points of Northern Italy, (This is usually where they go after epic failing at Salona for me), to pin them in and defeat them.
Turns 30-32
By now the nomads are either dead or FMs only armies that cannot threaten you. So now is the time to do two things.
1. Build up and army in Northern Gaul to retake Britannia, and defeat the Celts. Then convert them to Christianity. Now ould also be a good time to convert Syracuse to Christianity.
2. Build an army to defeat the Berbers outright.
Another thing to do is use those barracks on the River borders of your empire to build troops. Take a couple of FMs to built forts on YOU side of the river crossings, which are really the only way into your empire, and garrison them with these troops. This blocks anymore hordes from your lands and makes a GREAT defensive position. Some river crossings wont let you build forts on them. In this case place troops on the crossing to initiate a bridge battle with any enemies. Easy to win. So now the barb faction no longer have unlimited access to your lands and you can start, (Or if you smart continue) a Mass building program. Build anything you want BUT FARM UPGRADES. NEVER BUILD FARM UPGRADES!!!!! This is due to the fact that Farm upgrades increase the amount of maximum squalor that your settlement can have. Now squalor has 2 effects. It decreases pop growth AND it increases unrest. If you build farm upgrades the squalor can reach INSANE LEVELS on even the HUGE CITY level. The only way to counter this is to build happiness buildings. But eventually you wont have enough happiness building to counter the squalor effects forcing the settlement to revolt every so often, which can trigger mass revolts, which are a REAL pain in the ass to take care of. And since you cannot destroy farm upgrades this cycle will continue for your WHOLE game. If you need a pop boost to get the that Huge settlement, build a sanitation building or decrease taxes. These do not increase the maximum squalor that you can have, and allow for growth.
Turn 40
By now the whole western half of the map is yours. Time to build armies and march east to finish this. Build one army in Rome and another in Carthage. The Rome army heads for Constantinople, while the Carthage army heads for Alexandria. Covert stuff to Christianity wherever it is not.
Turn 45-50
YOU WIN!!!!!!!!!
Tips and other
1.As i said above DO NOT BUILD ANY FARM UPGRADES!
2.You need to keep the German tribes as divided as possible. You do this in one of two ways. One way is using that army of Marcus the Gambler after he exterminates the Alemanii, march him ALL OVER Germania taking every rebel settlement that you see. You then EXTERMINATE, destroy all of those buildings, build a Christian Shrine, and move on. This creates several buffer zones all over Germania that the German tribes will waste time trying to take and hold but wont be able to due to the fact that these settlements are in constant revolt over religion. If you march his army in a circle you should try to get the Campuses of Alemanii, Macromanni, Quadi, Chatti, and Frisia. He returns to your lands next to Colonia Agrippnia, ready with a FULL vet army, for use.
The other way of course is to use diplomats to give cash to the German tribes and encourage them to fight each other.

Sorry for the lenght.:oops:

[ThePianist]

Wow do I like the new interface, the layout color, the buttons to click, etc.
That's an excellent guide. Could you play the BI mod called IBFD and write a similar guide? Whenever a campaign is hard, I need someone to write a starter guide. IBFD has the hardest campaign of any mods, even harder than the hard factions of EB, because the economy starts out all negative and all the cities are nearly red-faced. I have no idea how to do a WRE or ERE campaign on IBFD. Could you please try that mod and write a similar guide?

There are 3 IBFD mods released and one still in concept (Restitutor Orbis, about Justinian). The 3 IBFD mods are: Ruina Romae (the "vanilla" mod), Somnium Apostatae Iuliani (Julian the Apostate) and Rio's Flagellum Dei (The Whip of God). Even though the contents are fairly similar, using the same skins and units, their starting campaign years are different, and each mod has some unique details about it. They can all be installed simultaneously, since each is mod-foldered. Rio's mod has low-upkeep Foederati units with 0-turn recruiting and expensive Roman units, and it's a strange gameplay of hiring Foederati immediately before a battle,and disbanding them after a battle.

I don't really care which one, but I'd like to be able to play one of them, since it's the only BI mod about that time era (all other BI mods are about other eras). Could you try one of the mods and write a strategy guide like this?
I have played the WRE campaign at least once, maybe twice, on vanilla BI and M/M, and I succeeded. IBFD is the only mod difficult and without a strategy guide.