View Full Version : Decisions...
This is my Takeda (Hard/Huge Units/Starting 1530) campaign so far:
I had inherited Hizen, Totomi and Suruga from Imagawa when he passed on during a battle where he joined me as ally - he left no heirs. Hojo I managed to finally defeat on the third attempt. He was holed up in Sagami. Since this time Uesugi has been my staunch ally. After accepting the Portuguese and Christianity I have been zealously converting provinces and building churches everywhere (not my usual style).
After years of Shimazu launching attacks on Hizen I decided to remove him from the equation altogether. Abandoning Aki province due to constant attacks by the Ronin and needing the men elsewhere I gambled on taking on Shimazu for the control of Kyushu and Shikoku.
My armies are mostly made up of Yari Samurai, Samurai Archers, Teppo units, Cavarly Archers and Yari Cavalry. So taking on Shimazu's No Dachis was no easy task. Despite this his last province, Tosa, has only just fallen. A large Ronin force partly consisting of Monks erupted out of Awa into Sanuki the following season and defeated my garrison there. This forced me to redirect the army that I was moving through Iyo bound for Awa to retake Sanuki which is now under siege.
https://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7363/00000000ub5.jpg
With Shimazu off my back, my possible next move will be against my ally the Uesugi. While such treachery goes against the grain somewhat, the Uesugi have become far too strong in Shinano, and if left unchecked will become a massive problem later (the heavy cav production is pretty much full on). The Oda (also in Omi and Iga provinces) are weaker with the Ronin hindering their expansion so can be safely left alone for now.
Alternatively I could take on the Oda and cut off the Uesugi's further expansion, then consolidate the rest of the provinces in the south west and take on Uesugi in a final showdown. This route feels far too predictable though.
https://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5451/00000001wr5.jpg
Yeah, I think I would move against Uesugi and seize Shinano as (reasonably) soon as possible. Otherwise they'll become too much of a threat to you, especially when you know it's only a matter of time before they'd backstab you as well. :bow:
Well I'm daring to think of a two pronged assault into Musashi and Shinano, this will seal off Totomi, Suruga, Kai and Sagami and leave me with only three provinces to defend in the region, Shinano of course needing the largest as it is not easy to defend.
If Uesugi kept expanding, it will cost a big deal of time to fight him down later. Once he has infrastructure and cash flow he'll get annoying. I would take Shinano and Musashi quickly in one attempt. Then you have a three-province-border that is perfectly defendable.
Indeed, I plan to hit Uesugi next. I will post some screenshots and an update later.
-Edit: I should probably mention that I use the troop and projectile stats provided by Puzz3D that aim to restore the balance and feel of earlier STW versions. Definitely makes for more challenging battles.
:bow:
Conquering Musashi and Shinano now is indeed a VERY good idea. :2thumbsup: Your line of defence will be brilliant. Don't be too shy with your troops though because of this.. if the way into Uesugi's lands is clear, go for it. It should give you so much money that you could finish the rest of the campaign in no time. :2thumbsup:
Conquering Musashi and Shinano now is indeed a VERY good idea. :2thumbsup: Your line of defence will be brilliant. Don't be too shy with your troops though because of this.. if the way into Uesugi's lands is clear, go for it. It should give you so much money that you could finish the rest of the campaign in no time. :2thumbsup:
I shall be planning my next moves on the way home from work.
:bow:
Nice campaign - you took your time and that is paying off now - the Shimazu and Uesugi wars were/will be rewarding. Interesting development. Better fight the Uesugi now - they ll hit you where it hurts if you go after Oda first. Also they have easily defensible borders and you dont. Better fix that sooner than later.
Just finished an Oda and Takeda campaigns in Sengoku in v1.12 - the Oda was slow, interesting and rewarding - got permission from Emperor Kami-No-Go-O to found the Shogunate at 1585 with a climactic showdown against the defying Imagawa that was holed up in Kyushu. Epic confrontations took place in Bungo and Buzen - the Imagawa counterattacked once the Oda entered Kyushu with stacks full of Soheis that were well trained (plus one honor), well armed (legendary weapons) and well motivated (legendary morale).
In one of these engagements (that passed into legend) during light snowfall, Shibata Katsuie s force of archers gunners 1 Yari cavalry, Naginatas and Yari Samurai beat off the first wave of assault that took place from ordinary units (Yari samurai and Samurai Archers). However after this the Soheis came in and things looked bleaked - yet correct timing in engaging the melee units, teppo support fire, the use of a the gentle available slope, and commitment of the archers as reserves saved the day - the monks were pushed back and then chased all the way to the hills.
The final battle that sealed the fate of Imagawa and their last Daimyo took place in Hyugo - Oda Nobunaga (daimyo) rank 5 against Tokugawa Ieyasu (daimyo) rank 6. A memorable battle for the ferocity that it was fought from both sides - it took the last reserves of Nobunagas troops to win since Ieyasu survived the loss of the main bitter engagement and his reinforcements poured in in great numbers. He was finally forced to retreat in the castle only to sally next year in which battle Nobunaga comfortably defeated him (due to his poor force) and personally took his head - a token of evidence (as well as warning) for Kami-No-Go-O in Kyoto that the time to issue his invitation had come.
The Takeda one was somewhat less enjoyable since for some reason, i played full speed (thats what years of seeing Shimazu/Mori multiple stacks does to you i guess) and finished by 1563 - all Daimyos other than Mori lost their lives in battles against Takeda - i didnt target them just happened (lord Mori was forced to commit sepukku by Shimazu Takahisa). I was left to clean up the rebels.
An incredible battle took place though in taking Shinano from Yoshimoto-Ko (Imagawa). Takeda Harunobu (rank 6) as taisho led the attack in rainy weather with bright patches of a force comprised of about 10 yari samurai and 4 yari cavalry units. Imagawa had about 4 yari samurai his hatamoto and the rest samurai archers (full stack).
It was a difficult and epic assault, that was meant to be timed with the intensity of the rain to minimise casualties from arrow fire - however the rain subsided sooner than expected and the Imagawa archers took a heavy toll in the first wave of yari units that were attempting to climb the steep slope - the first team of yari samurai routed and the second started to waver and then Imagawa archers did a critical mistake; they came out of position to shoot at the second team of yeari samurai and turned their backs in the woods at the side edge of the map were the yari cavalry was hiding, waiting to strike. Takeda Harunobu (the Buddhist name of which was to be Shingen) took the opportunity and the famed Takeda cavalry emerged through the rain and hit the archers in the back collapsing Imagawa s right flank. The Takeda Yari samurai of team one rallied and resumed their ascent on the now undefended left slope while the second team continued their ascent on the right slope. Once the Yari samurai climbed the slopes a bitter melee ensued - Yoshimoto-ko and his army were flanked and cut down losing the battle their life and the bid for the Shogunate - *Thats at least one point of view*
!it burnsus!
https://img405.imageshack.us/img405/179/00000003hm2.jpg
The latest: Awa finally taken, moved into Suo, nothing much else to report in these parts.
https://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1293/00000004jc9.jpg
Shinano proved to be a bloodbath, as much for my forces as for Uesugi's. I deployed about 3000 decidedly average troops in total, facing Uesugi's YS general and his 1800 super upgraded and high valour killers. They start off camped on a hill near to the edge of the map with 3 units of heavy cavalry, 2 units of Monks and about 4 units of No Dachi as well as other assorted units. I adopted a ploy of sending cavalry archer units around to their right flank to draw out the heavy cavalry into the valley below, when they took the bait I had my Teppo open fire into the ravine then charged 6 units of Yari down to meet them. The result was unbelievable Jedi comeback as the HC began to gain ground on the Yaris and the enemy's No Dachi and Monks closed in. I had no choice but to commit my main force of 4 No Dachi and 1 Kensai to outflank the attackers. Eventually the tide of the battle went against me and my Teppo general (yes I seem to have a thing with these in this campaign for some reason) routed. The result was the destruction of my army though also the cream of the AI's starting line up. Then the reinforcements came on.
The enemy having pursued my men to the map edge now faced my reinforcements. Positioning the 4 fresh units of Samurai Archers and 1 unit of Teppo around the ridges (but not camped at the edges) I managed to get in a lot of volleys in at the enemy No Dachi and HC as they advanced, but I wasn't hopeful. It was then after a few volleys from the Teppo that the enemy morale surprisingly fell apart however and the chain rout ensued. Charging down the enemy with the last battered unit of Yari cavalry I had. I had to move my army to the other side of the map again to rout the last two HC units and some bits of No Dachi and Monks (reinforcements) and it was all over. I think I lost about 1900 men and killed about 1300 of the enemy - so not the greatest victory ever but a tactical one nonetheless, which has hurt Uesugi much more than Takeda.
Musashi went very differently. This turned out to be quite a well executed bridge assault. I began by setting up the infantry unit formations to roughly the bridge width, placed the 2 archers and 1 Cavalry Archers where they could get a shot and then marched the only two YS units I had available in first. Once they began to cross the bridge the enemy Naginta Cavalry engaged them. It was at this point that that the Yari Cavalry and the Daimyo, in held formation, crossed the bridge and broke left. I ordered the 3 units of No Dachi and Kensai No. 2 (No. 2 as in the one in Shinano being no 1 (RIP)) across breaking right. Once they had broken through the melee which the YS were busy holding back, I was about to set them on the enemies flanks, but realised that the 4 valour YS had done their jobs well. Their only job was to mop up the rout and join the cav in hunting down the archers.
The next season, Moving all available units into the newly captured provinces and sieging and assaulting both, Uesugis large force in Mino did not retaliate as I had expected. The next season after further fortifying those provinces with fresh troops and beginning rebuilding, Uesugi struck Oda in Owari and lost reducing the Mino force to the three smaller stacks you see now. So it seems my luck is in for now.
Kozuke and Shimotzuke were raids with the destruction of the Geisha house in the former being my only bit of razing, before pulling out. The enemy left them ungarrisoned.
:bow:
Nicely done, mate. ~:cheers:
So now that you've secured the Mikawa-Shinano-Musashi defensive line, are you going to sit back and fortify? Or will you move further east into Uesugi territory? Or are you planning to unite your northern and southern lands and engage Oda?
Congrats! Nice one!
It is, btw, good that yu started a campain report. I'll have a lot of uni stuff to do, so my next campain is not even planned. :book:
I would propose moving east. Uesugis forces seem very little there. By taking Etchigo or even Etchu you could still hold a strong border line against him and grab all the land that is east of you. Requires some more troop potential, but now you "optimized" your borderline you will probably have it in a couple of turns.
I wouldn't give to much on uniting the provinces as long as they are defendable with a small number of pro-defense provinces and there are enough harbours. I would let Oda and Uesugi bite each others head off as long as they want, while you keep snatching Uesugis land build armies. :)
Etchigo is exactly the next move I had planned patdj :bow:
This will drive a wedge between Uesugi's forces and allow me to concentrate on taking all of the north eastern provinces. It will also leave the rest of Uesugi's forces to continue fighting it out with Oda as my Kyushu based forces slowly move towards them at their leisure...
-Edit: Nothing more to report so far, I've been busy yesterday so haven't been able to continue as yet.
https://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6383/00000007ef5.jpg
The situation so far. Several battles later and the situation is very different. Uesugi is now isolated in Hida with Oda attacking nearly every season but losing. It is perhaps now time from me to rejoin my old ally and wipe Oda from the map...
Wow! You really acquired some land. :dizzy2:
Yay, I would ally to Uesugi and approach Oda from the West. Can you buy rebels in STW? Can't remember :idea2: ... If yes, I would just buy the rebel army that is in your way and let them run into the Oda forces, doing as much damage as possible. This will speed things up a bit. Meantime, with some luck, Oda and Uesugi bite each others head off. Or run into some expensive defense battles with your garrisons. :oops:
Yes patdj, buying the rebels is a great idea, I really hadn't even thought about it. :dizzy2:
I also think approaching from the west is the best idea. This will leave the eastern border as it is, which is quite strong, and strengthen western border also giving me the opportunity to bribe the rebels. The only province I might take in the eastern side is Kaga.
:bow:
https://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9238/00000008bq8.jpg
And so that's it. The last few provinces fell quite easily. Uesugi was defeated in the next two seasons by Oda, I was too late to break the siege. Then as I closed the net on Oda he began sending many more Ninjas my way, killing one of my heirs and that Geisha I had hanging around. I autresolved a bit towards the end as it was pretty obvious what the outcome would be, but I did fight most of the battles including Owari, where I somehow turned up to a bridge assault with no YS or Naginta units. It went well however, partly due to the fact that it was a dual bridge map, but then I didn't take much advantage of this except for sending two units of Cavarly Archers across the second bridge with the main force assaulting the first.
So on to the next campaign.
:bow:
nice. man i miss doing campaigns. time to fire up the old total war machine :)
Sasaki Kojiro
01-10-2009, 20:55
So much koku!
Funny, I never ended up fighting on both ends with the takeda or imagawa.
nice. man i miss doing campaigns. time to fire up the old total war machine :)
:yes: ~:cheers:
So much koku!
The Churches + Cathedral and all of the ports bring in a stupid amount of income. I didn't really need it all and had the taxes on normal from about 1585 onwards. :dizzy2:
Funny, I never ended up fighting on both ends with the takeda or imagawa.
Neither do I usually, but in this case gaining Imagawa's lands made a big difference. I did end up losing Aki to the persistent Ronin but then I began developing and expanding from Hizen.
:bow:
Wow! :beam: You must be richer than Bill Gates.
:book:
All in all: Nice write-up! :bow: Nice campaign. ~:)
106000 koku is indeed a lot, luckily I like rice...
Anyway I've just started a Mori/Hard/Huge Units/1550 campaign and I might give up on it. I'm holding from Nagato to Hoki/Bitchu and my income is quite steady. I can train heavy cavalry and Monks already so I could go to the west and remove Shimazu or head east and take on the rebels and Oda. It seems rather Linear, so I may give up and start an Imagawa campaign instead, or go back to the "Sengoku Jidai" original campaign.
:bow:
seireikhaan
01-11-2009, 00:23
Hmm... Never actually played STW, so I have a question- Is inheriting land(such as in the early part of this campaign) more common in STW in comparison to MTW?
Hmm... Never actually played STW, so I have a question- Is inheriting land(such as in the early part of this campaign) more common in STW in comparison to MTW?
In my experience no, though others may have different experiences of this. In MTW I've only inherited lands from an ally twice, in STW once. And that is in years of playing. In MTW princesses are a factor in this, also it seems to me that low taxes play a part.
Hm, I NEVER inherited land in MTW in years of playing, in STW once in my first campain, approx. 2 months ago.
Congrats to your victory, Caraveloto. Seems like we're favourizing the same tactics. :dizzy2:
This is my Mori campaign so far:
https://img174.imageshack.us/img174/3025/00000009yk4.jpg
Branching out from Aki to neighbouring Suo, Iwami and Nagato first and stationing a garrison lead by an heir in Nagato to keep an eye on Shmazu.
https://img55.imageshack.us/img55/6382/00000000gy1.jpg
From this point I have concentrated on moving eastwards. Though I am uncertain as to how far to progress. It may be an idea to hold off Shimazu instead of taking his provinces and let him spill through Shikoku into the Oda held provinces to give them something else to worry about. I do like the idea of taking the northern Shimazu provinces however, especially Hizen.
Looks auspicious.
Me would spare Shimazu as long as he is strong enough to seriously defend himself. If he gets careless you could whipe him out of northern Kyushu in one big offense without taking much losses. Meantime you can let him expand over Shikoku to let him run in whatever dwells there. Still you should take into account that with the velocity you are moving east you will own western Honshu faster than Shimazu takes over Shikoku, so it will probably anyway be you who is dwelling there. :sweatdrop:
Good luck!
I d blitz the Hakata plain (Hizen, Chikugo, Chikuzen, Buzen) and push the Shimazu in the highlands - finally crushing them in Osumi and Satsuma. Predictable but optimal - no back stabbing after that is possible. I am allergic in fighting the Shimazu in Nagato/Buzen and all the more in Iyo/Sanuki in Shikoku.
Dear me, its been a while.
!it burnsus!
Well done with the Takeda mate. I say defo continue with Mori. I personally cant ever quit a campaign untill I`m wiped out or victorious.
The situation so far:
https://img79.imageshack.us/img79/9330/00000001nv2.th.jpg (https://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00000001nv2.jpg)https://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6779/00000002ac4.th.jpg (https://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00000002ac4.jpg)
Takeda has been at war with Oda and lost... Two seasons later he had reappeared and been wiped out again.
Oda has now made contact with my clan after conquering Wakasa, Tamba and Kawachi. He is also in Tosa, and Awa so it may be only a matter of time before he either goes to war with Shimazu or both of these clans could go to war with me. From what I've seen of his forces so far he may be spread thin (I'm not a big user or emissaries to spy on my rivals I just take it as it comes so I can't be sure of this).
Shimazu has not yet developed significantly so now is probably the time to continue carving a path to Hizen. All other clans are quiet, only fighting the rebels - for now.
I am going to hold the eastern border as long as possible. The high ranking Oda General and Heir Toyotomi Hideyoshi is in that region so if any offensives does occur it could be a fierce battle. Yamana Yoshiyori is stationed in Harima with 600 mainly defensive troops, so if Oda decides to make a move we will be ready. 80 year old Motonari is in Tajima with 544 men but badly needs reinforcing with a few units of Naginta or YS. Mori Terumoto is ready to take his place (as the general there not as Daimyo) should Motonari pass on.
In the west, in Buzen, Mori Yoshinari (Motonari's heir) waits with 600 men at his command, including 240 Warrior Monks of Aki.
The Portuguese arrived and were duly turned away - the proud Mori have little use for such toys.
:bow:
Hmm, looks like its time to get Kawachi to me... in which case a few teppo wouldnt hurt; hows Lord Mori s latin?
Benedictis Dio Omnipotentis In nomine Padri e Fili e Spiritus Sancti... Amen
!it burnsus!
Hm, I have not much to add. Funny thing: in my campains the Oda never get big. They always get lost in rebels and rivals or just die out. Plus: your campain overview map looks like traffic lights in weird order. :dizzy2: Pin-Pon!
Hmm, looks like its time to get Kawachi to me...
Hmmm... further eastward expansion? Apart from it being a river province and having a good farm income, how would Kawachi benefit me? It would isolate those Oda in Shikoku but I would end up fighting invasions from both sides. It would also mean that my eastern border becomes a three province one.
in which case a few teppo wouldnt hurt; hows Lord Mori s latin?
Benedictis Dio Omnipotentis In nomine Padri e Fili e Spiritus Sancti... Amen
!it burnsus!
Well he knows a little, but the Lord Buddha might have something to say about that. :laugh4:
I've decided to avoid gunpowder at least until the Dutch arrive and maybe altogether. I know that with the Portuguese you can effectively double cross them and build the trading posts without converting your Daimyo to Christianity, but this time around I want to keep the Mori purely Buddhist and concentrate on having Monks as my main elite unit. I will not be training as much cavalry either.
:bow:
Apart from it being a river province and having a good farm income, how would Kawachi benefit me?
It ll get you (miles) closer to bottlenecking in Yamashiro and Wakasa, solving your multiprovince frontier, while increasing your income and potential (plus one honor in Yamashiro). Also a good missile based force in Kawachi will punish attackers severely no matter which direction they are coming from.
Well he knows a little, but the Lord Buddha might have something to say about that. :laugh4:
Not to mention his followers.
I've decided to avoid gunpowder at least until the Dutch arrive and maybe altogether. I know that with the Portuguese you can effectively double cross them and build the trading posts without converting your Daimyo to Christianity, but this time around I want to keep the Mori purely Buddhist and concentrate on having Monks as my main elite unit. I will not be training as much cavalry either.
Dear me - this sounds more theocentric than the Kamakura Shogunate.
!it burnsus!
It ll get you (miles) closer to bottlenecking in Yamashiro and Wakasa, solving your multiprovince frontier, while increasing your income and potential (plus one valor in Yamashiro). Also a good missile based force in Kawachi will punish attackers severely no matter which direction they are coming from.
Well I've just lost all allies except Hojo when I struck against the Shimazu, so I may move against Oda as well. :juggle2:
Dear me - this sounds more theocentric than the Kamakura Shogunate.
!it burnsus!
Fanatically more so... :beam:
I hope not nakedly fanatic though...:laugh4:
!it burnsus!
A bit chilly up in the mountains and hills for that... :bow:
Several battles later:
https://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5126/00000007om6.th.jpg (https://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00000007om6.jpg)https://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8159/00000012jh4.th.jpg (https://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00000012jh4.jpg)
Oda and Shimazu have both gone after Sanuki province every season for just over a year. The garrison there led by Mori Masamoto and his Yari Samurai has held out well so far, including several great victories while outnumbered 2/1. As a result of my expansion in the east and west, I have cut off some Shimazu and Oda forces in Shikoku, including Shimazu Muneharu himself. Their defeats have been one humiliation after another. They had only gained one minor vistory placing the castle in Sanuki under siege, this was quickly relieved.
-Edit: The general you can see in Awa is Hideyoshi himself. He has taken part in most if not all of the attempts on Sanuki with his ally Muneharu, and each time my forces had failed to pick him off until he was brought down by a unit of YS charging him in the flank.
An Oda incursion into Tajima was seen off by one unit of Ashigaru. Hiding in the woods he managed to divide his enemy in half and first routed the enemy Ashigaru unit. Next, after reforming quickly his unit charged the approaching YS general. The ensuing fight could have gone either way, but the Ashiguru began to take the upper hand resulting in the rout of the Oda. He is now a two star general for his efforts.
The incursions into Kyushu gone relatively unopposed. Several battles have ended without a blow exchanged. At the sight of Mori Terumoto and Mori Masanari with their warriror monks the enemy prefers to run. It is usually the enemy's Ashigaru that rout first before even making contact, then the rest soon follow.
Mori Motonari eventually passed on to the next life. He has been succeeded by Mori Yoshinari, who is now commanding the men on the eastern front - he has large shoes to fill. At present the border is holding but reinforcements are on the way from the capital. The battles on the eastern front against the Oda have been fiercer but in general the Oda have not turned out in the numbers one would expect. The battle for Kawachi consisted of two units of Monks and two of Naginta. The bridge was rushed and the larger force on the other side seemed to lack the backbone to take them on. The Oda force fell apart and routed.
The Dutch have arrived and I have accepted their proposal. We shall see what transpires.
:bow
With Oda troops traped in Awa i would move in Mino/Owari in order to *close* the Kinki area (Kii/Yamato/Iga/Ise) and take it at will. Shimazu is reduced to a nuisance.
I wouldnt want to face those Aki Wmonks - legendary armoury/weapons and (me thinks) palace - phew. No wonder why Shimazu troops take it to the hills.
It seems that Oda is forced to have large stacks in his eastern border.
Mori Motonari eventually passed on to the next life.
And already re-incarnated to post about it :laugh4:
!it burnsus!
And so it begins...
https://img509.imageshack.us/img509/7654/00000013ge3.jpg
The worthy Shimazu clan is no more. Defeated on the field, he fought bravely 'til the end.
https://img403.imageshack.us/img403/815/00000014mr0.jpg (https://img403.imageshack.us/img403/815/00000014mr0.jpg)
In the west those forces aligning themselves to the Uesugi have become legitimate targets. The situation could worsen in that region once Uesugi begins shipping armies into Satsuma.
https://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8206/00000016fn3.jpg
In the east Mori forces have advanced into Mino and Owari, sealing off the Oda forces and their Daimyo to the south.
https://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5627/00000021af9.jpg
Several seasons later and the Uesugi and Oda threats are removed from the east. Now the westward advance begins. The battles against the Uesugi were uneventful: Routing at the sight of the Monks...
Owari has a palace - perfect for settling the Dutch gaijin there and providing high honor and morale teppo ashigaru. They might get handy in Mino and Owari in case the Hojo or Uesugi dominate the kanto plain and come after your lordship with as many men as the grains of rice that grow there.
*He who does not consider what is far will soon find trouble close at hand*
From now on its one way. treating Lord Oda appropriately in order to set foot in Kii would be necessary at some point as well as worthy - although your Hiroshima WMonks will punish unbelievers heavenly without any helping hand from the Ota branch.
*Those who steal are called thieves - what shall we call those who claim the merits of heaven?*
:bow:
!it burnsus!
The teppo production has already begun as I had accepted the Dutch in my last post. That force of Monks and Naginta you see in Owari is not the permanent garrison. They were the invasion force that met no resistance whatsoever. I have Iwami turning out teppo units at present and I am building a trading post in Owari. In truth I don't have many provinces with training facilities as I tend to try and centralise as much as possible. Aki and it's neighbours will become teppo training sites before long.
The combination of Monks and Teppo (big bangs, lots of Monks appear, enemy runs) is quite a deadly one in this game.
:bow:
In truth I don't have many provinces with training facilities as I tend to try and centralise as much as possible.
Usually me too - except when blitzing - then a small amount of buildings in specialist provinces is prefered to streamline a steady supply of troops.
big bangs, lots of Monks appear, enemy runs
Fear :scared: and Wonder :jawdrop: - powerful combination.
!it burnsus!
Update:
https://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6143/00000019hf5.th.jpg (https://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00000019hf5.jpg)
Moving eastwards I am now in a position where I can either head northwards into Echigo, or move south and take Musashi from the Uesugi. Lord Hojo however is not to be trusted and the Mikawa garrison will have to remain strong.
https://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7529/00000018ab5.th.jpg (https://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00000018ab5.jpg)
Uesugi's attempt at Shinano only two seasons after it's capture proved to be a humiliating deteat. Lord Uesugi literally emptied the neighbouring provinces of Musashi and Kozuke in this attempt, though he did not take part in the battle himself.
Lining the valley with the warrior Monks hugging the treeline on one side and the rest of the force on the other. Mori Yoshinari, now in his 70's, ordered the Naginta to line the hill with the teppo out in front. The No Dachi and Heavy Cavalry keeping an eye on a potentially exposed back door to their position. As Yoshinari had planned, the enemy around 2000 in number, began to divide. Foolishly the enemy general sent his Yari Samurai and Archers to uphill towards the Monks who began the downward charge... On the other side, the Uesugi forces there began to break under the constant hail of musket balls... the rest as they say is history.
:bow:
I hope your daimyo is not interested in taking his tea with young educated ladies - something (purple and) wicked this way comes.
Uesugi's attempt at Shinano only two seasons after it's capture proved to be a humiliating deteat.
heh it seems it was a true head-ache for the Uesugi.
!it burnsus!
I hope your daimyo is not interested in taking his tea with young educated ladies - something (purple and) wicked this way comes.
Tell me about it, I've started Ninja training and I'm developing Iga for Ninjas and Tajima for Geisha (to get rid of that one). Tajima is training Ninjas already so the first few will be coming from there. :dizzy2:
And so it ends...
https://img292.imageshack.us/img292/641/00000022eq3.jpg
The Hojo Geishas went after my family line until they had killed every last one - about 5 in total - and this was all while Lord Hojo was still my ally. I was gearing up to break the alliance and go all out against Hojo and sent an emissary to Uesugi. His head was returned the following season when Oda and Uesugi hit Shinano with over 4000 men...
Despite me having about 20 ninja chasing them around, none succeeded. The first Geisha reached honour 4 and killed the Daimyo Mori Yoshinari. This triggered some revolts and the reappearance of Shimazu. I decided to cede kyushu to him as it was impossible to hold. When the second Geisha appeared and after two attempts picked off my last heir that was pretty much it...
:bow:
Geisha are actually one of the reasons I try to get my agent facilities up and running early on, so as to be able to call on large groups of ninja as soon as the geisha appear. Unlucky though mate, it looked to be a great campaign. At least your honour is still great :2thumbsup:
You have my deepest sympathy. I think I would bite the desk if my campain failed because of the female clowns. Instead of sending all the ninjas against Geishas you could have sent them after the Hojo daimyo and his heirs, to kill his line first. Saved game? Or are you already over it? :embarassed:
Well if it wasn't for the Geisha I could have stormed the AI from the map, so it was getting to the predictable stage anyway. Once defeated I tend not to revert to save games, for me it's the taking part that counts more so than the winning. I've started a new campaign as Imagawa starting at 1530.
Yes sending the Ninjas against Hojo may have been the right idea in retrospect, though the single Geisha became such an immediate threat that she was killing one of my heirs per season. Trying to wipe out Hojo's family line with my not so great ninjas would have taken quite a bit longer. It's like Wishazu has said, getting the training facilities up and running sooner is very important unless you're blitzing of course - and usually I'm a big user of Ninja and Shinobi, but on this occasion I neglected to develop Ninja houses and paid the price.
:bow:
Then be it so. :bow:
Imagawa you say? That's what I wanted to do as well, once I'm finished with my MTW campains... It is one of the last ones of whom we do not already have a report written. :shame: Looks challenging.
Talking of it: it may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between Sengoku Jidai and Starting in 1530, as they both start in 1530... :inquisitive: Is the SJ fictive and the 1530 more "realistic"? Which one is more interesting, or challenging?
Thank you for gracing us with your campaigns.
:bow:
Talking of it: it may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between Sengoku Jidai and Starting in 1530, as they both start in 1530... :inquisitive: Is the SJ fictive and the 1530 more "realistic"? Which one is more interesting, or challenging?
The Sengoku one is less realistic, whereas the 1530 has the clans in (what I assume to be?) somewhere near to their correct locations. The rest of the map would have been covered by many more minor clans, represented as rebels and ronin in the game.
Thank you for gracing us with your campaigns.
Well they weren't that great, I'm not so good at these write ups... :study:
:bow:
Nice campaign, Caravel. It had everything too: Some interesting strategic positions, quick brutal wars, and an unexpectedly tragic ending. Well done sir. ~:cheers:
Like patdj and as I've mentioned above, I have now started an Imagawa campaign. So far it's going slow though I've trained up some Geisha to avoid a repeat of last time. My strategy is to hold both the east and west as long as possible, to avoid the linear and predictable west to east sweep pattern. So far I've converted to christian and have begun large scale teppo production. I managed to assassinate Lord Oda in Owari, wiping them out, with the view to expanding there. He was holed up there and not really making much progress. This did not go as planned as his forces joined the Shimazu and they are quite sizeable. Deciding that it was time I went to war with him and invaded Bungo.
:bow:
Good Luck with Imagawa Caravel. They are my favourite clan to play as and in my opinion the most challenging clan to play as. To be honest, that`s probably why I like them so much.
Going back to the issue of Geisha`s that we have been talking about recently, is there any way to delete them from the game so as to stop them from ruining a perfectly good campaign?
Darn geisha's!:wall:
Very nice campaign and story. ~:)
Good Luck with Imagawa Caravel. They are my favourite clan to play as and in my opinion the most challenging clan to play as. To be honest, that`s probably why I like them so much.
:bow:
Going back to the issue of Geisha`s that we have been talking about recently, is there any way to delete them from the game so as to stop them from ruining a perfectly good campaign?
Unfortunately not, they are hardcoded. You cannot add/remove any units or buildings from STW in fact. :no:
A pity. In future I`ll just have to make sure I win quickly(unlikely) or get my geishas up and running to counter theirs.
ReluctantSamurai
01-23-2009, 21:39
Going back to the issue of Geisha`s that we have been talking about recently, is there any way to delete them from the game so as to stop them from ruining a perfectly good campaign?
There is.....sort of:dizzy2: You need to edit the building preference so that a Geisha House is so low on the preference list, it never gets built...............unless.................you go ahead and build one yourself and start training geisha.
There was just such a discussion about this not too long ago.
I personally feel that geisha are cheesy and so I do not use them myself nor do I permit the AI to use them. However, if you feel that you must have them in the game there are certain tactics to deal with them.
First and foremost, you must seek out and destroy geisha lairs no matter who has them, and even if it means starting a war with someone you'd rather not be fighting just at the moment. Better that than suffer Caravel's fate. (If you see a geisha, even if she has not targeted you, rest assured that someday she will be aimed in your direction. Better to kill her before she gains experience as it will only get tougher to eliminate her.) Raze the place to the ground ensuring that it will take some years before a new one can arise. You can send out shinobi to scout, but source areas are quite predictable: Hojo geisha are likely from Sagami, Takeda's from Kai, Uesugi from Mutsu or Echigo, Shimazu from Satsuma or sometimes Hizen......in other words, the provinces that were the most developed at the start of the campaign, and almost always a port province. This means that you can land an invasion force, raze the facilities to the ground, and leave the very next season......no fuss, no muss, and extra cash from looting to boot.
Second, get several lvl 5 ninjas or better, asap. They have a 50% chance against a lvl 0 geisha, so one of them is bound to get her.
Thirdly, flood the province where the assassination is being attempted with mid to high level shinobi (lvl 3+). And move in a larger garrison. This will more than likely delay a successful assassination long enough for your ninja to get there.
Before I decided on the building preference edit method, that 3-step plan was just about fool-proof. I never lost either my Daimyo or an heir (on expert setting, btw). Once in a while, a minor general might fall, but the geisha's career was short-lived after that, as was the province that spawned her...:skull:
I had a very fun-filled campaign ruined by the use of geisha, although the reverse of what happened to Caravel. Early in my STW gaming career, I had a Uesugi campaign end prematurely after training up a super-geisha (lvl 6) who went happily around the board assassinating every Daimyo and heir from every clan that was still on the board at the time. So now instead of intriguing plots and nail-biting battles, it became a boring trudge across rebel-held provinces. "The thrill is gone" as the song goes.......................That was the first, and last time I used geisha.
Found it:https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65690
zyxophoj
01-24-2009, 10:11
So now instead of intriguing plots and nail-biting battles, it became a boring trudge across rebel-held provinces. "The thrill is gone" as the song goes.......................That was the first, and last time I used geisha.
Lots of games have some sort of superweapon at the top of the technology tree, to prevent a defensive stalemate. Usualy it's a nuclear missile, but that would just be silly in shogun, so we get the geisha instead. It's overpowered, and it's particularly annoying in an otherwise well-balanced game.
I have no problem at all with assassinating a clan out of existence, but I try to do it with ninjas. It feels like an achievement when I manage to train a high-honour ninja and he kills an enemy daimyo. It's the possibility of failure that makes it exciting. But with the geisha, all you need to do is click on her, then click on the target... just like the nuclear missile in all those other games. No skill is needed, and the AI is hopeless at defending itself from geishas. Like you said, "The thrill is gone".
How do you actually edit the preferences to dissuade the AI from building a Geisha House?
ReluctantSamurai
01-24-2009, 20:20
Follow the link I provided and read post #3 (barocca). Within that discussion there is another link that provides detailed information of what all the numbers in the building_choice.txt file mean.
Cheers mate I must have missed it when I was reading through.
Imagawa 1530/Huge Units/Hard
"Western" region
https://img90.imageshack.us/img90/434/00000026so7.jpg
This is where the action is at the moment. Ieyasu is advancing eastwards with 1600 troops. Ujizane follows with another 1000 reserves. So far Shimazu has been reluctant to fight and appears to be pulling back and regrouping. The Ashigaru general Kikuchi Torayasu holds Iyo with 1000 men. He has orders to wait and not advance further until Ieyasu reaches Bizen.
"Eastern" region
https://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3959/00000025mh1.jpg
This region has not seen battle for a few years. Ando Muneharu defends the western frontier with 1000 men. Should Uesugi turn traitor and decide to come from this direction. Muneharu's teppo and archers will be ready for him as he attempts to cross the river. In Totomi the Daimyo, Yoshimoto, waits with 1400 men and in Suruga Sakai Tadatsugu guards the eastern frontier with as many. These lands saw much of the fighting in past years. It is hoped that Lord Hojo will not be so foolish again, but whatever may come to pass the men in this province are armed in readiness.
Lord Hojo made some unsuccessful attempts on Suruga resulting in some humiliating defeats that have set his faction back and have allowed Uesugi to advance. The Oda clan has reappeared under Toyotomi Hideyoshi a few years after they were wiped out by some of Yoshimoto's best Ninjas. It had been planned to take Owari at that point though the rebels there chose to join Lord Shmiazu, whom of which are in the process of being driven from Kyushu and western Honshu by Ieyasu. Uesugi has since taken Owari and attempts at stirring up unrest there have failed due to the high level of security in the area. As well as conquering, the Imagawa clan have been busy spreading the word of the one true god and making use of the new weapons brought from overseas by the vulgar foreigners. So far using these weapons and conventional warfare techniques the Imagawa have been very successful in the field.
:bow:
Great campaign, nice organized and defensive, but why do you always turn to christanity? It hurts law considerably and IMO gunners are poor fighters, on the assumption that is wrong please tell me to use them effectively :yes:
If you have plenty of Shinobi in place the conversion won`t really affect you. The benefits are having guns early and potential for massive income with Cathedral`s.
Great campaign, nice organized and defensive, but why do you always turn to christanity? It hurts law considerably and IMO gunners are poor fighters, on the assumption that is wrong please tell me to use them effectively :yes:
As Wishazu said, there's the large income from all churches once the cathedral is built plus the added bonus of fielding teppo. Religious unrest is not a factor as a good team of christian emissaries will convert any province you wish to invade in a few seasons (remember that buddhist emissaries can convert it back). You can then invade, get the Shinobi in place and then move on. As Sun Tzu said: "...it's a matter of organisation".
Fielding teppo units can be difficult and of course they're of most use defensively. Their weapons cause fear to the enemy and are good at penetrating armour. The downside is that they cannot fire in rain so you cannot rely on them entirely. When developing provinces for teppo, I tend to focus on morale and armour upgrades as much as possible. Weapon upgrades won't be of much use in most cases.
As far as tactics go I tend to take a "pike and musket" approach and I back up teppo units with YS units. The trick to any missile unit is not to order them to attack, but instead to position them correctly in a good vantage point over the enemy. It's then a matter of turning on/off fire at will and letting them find their own targets. If you manually target eneies you'll find that your line will go out of formation and the whole thing will turn into a mess. I tend to only manually target if a particular unit is closing in fast and I want to hit it with a volley before it makes contact. In such a case I would turn off skirmish mode, let the volley go off then turn off fire at will and then bring the pike line forward through the ranks of the teppo line to meet the enemy. This leaves the teppo safely behind. It's a very good idea to use YS because if the teppo do decide to rout they won't take the lesser quality YA with them.
:bow:
I only ever used to go Christian with Imagawa or Shimazu, the rest i remained Bhuddist. Was something satisfying though in winning with all provinces 100% Christian.
As Wishazu said, there's the large income from all churches once the cathedral is built plus the added bonus of fielding teppo. Religious unrest is not a factor as a good team of christian emissaries will convert any province you wish to invade in a few seasons (remember that buddhist emissaries can convert it back). You can then invade, get the Shinobi in place and then move on. As Sun Tzu said: "...it's a matter of organisation".
Fielding teppo units can be difficult and of course they're of most use defensively. Their weapons cause fear to the enemy and are good at penetrating armour. The downside is that they cannot fire in rain so you cannot rely on them entirely. When developing provinces for teppo, I tend to focus on morale and armour upgrades as much as possible. Weapon upgrades won't be of much use in most cases.
As far as tactics go I tend to take a "pike and musket" approach and I back up teppo units with YS units. The trick to any missile unit is not to order them to attack, but instead to position them correctly in a good vantage point over the enemy. It's then a matter of turning on/off fire at will and letting them find their own targets. If you manually target eneies you'll find that your line will go out of formation and the whole thing will turn into a mess. I tend to only manually target if a particular unit is closing in fast and I want to hit it with a volley before it makes contact. In such a case I would turn off skirmish mode, let the volley go off then turn off fire at will and then bring the pike line forward through the ranks of the teppo line to meet the enemy. This leaves the teppo safely behind. It's a very good idea to use YS because if the teppo do decide to rout they won't take the lesser quality YA with them.
:bow:
Thanks, I've only ever been christan with oda, i still think Buddhist is better because turning christian hinders the ability to recruit monks, however with your tactics, plus the income, i would consider christianity in a future game, plus as you've previously said, you don't play to win 100% of the time, but to have a challenging campaign. :bow:
ReluctantSamurai
01-25-2009, 19:40
i still think Buddhist is better because turning christian hinders the ability to recruit monks
I cannot tell you how many times the extra 1200+ koku from the cathedral has saved my butt:dizzy2: I had a memorable Oda camp where I had 5 straight years of poor harvests, and 7 out of 10 total at one stretch. With enemies pressing on all sides I would have been worn down due to lack of funds for replacements. As it was, even with the extra income, I hung on by a fingernail..........
I also rarely use monks anymore, preferring to use Nodachi. Cheaper, faster, and excellent line-busters. Yes they take heavy casualties so I make sure they are first in line for armor upgrades which helps. Having muskets long before anyone else far outweighs the morale impact of monks, IMHO. Besides, you can have your cake and eat it too........if you capture a province with a monk dojo, you can train them like any other unit.
Good point, but i've never even built a catherdral before, what are the pre-requisites? :laugh4:
ReluctantSamurai
01-25-2009, 20:10
First, of course, you must accept the Portuguese offer. Then you build a P. trading post along with six churches. The province you build the cathedral in must have a huge castle.
Word of advice....plan carefully where to put the churches and cathedral (esp the cathedral) as they take up slots in the building queue. You don't want to end up having to sacrifice a slot for something else you might need in those provinces.
Also not mentioned is the added income from the trading posts. You can have both a port and a trading post in the same province, doubling your trade income:yes:
I always push for the gun factory as quickly as possible. That requires a port province with an armory (like Hitachi, or Aki, for instance). Now you can turn out muskets instead of the arquebus....much better.
Also, once the cathedral is built, any P. trading post can now train the musket as well as the arquebus, which is absolutely fabulous for Owari and Tosa, both of which have the Ashi bonus (gunners are, after all, ashigaru).............
along with six churches.
This is the bit i was missing then, thanks. :bow:
Yeah its a nice little bit of income especially with the bad harvests. No-dachi, muskets and some nice yari cav works quite well.
Not much progress so far as i haven't played since Sunday. I've just gone back to it today and have taken Bingo and Izumo. Though the rebels turned up to fight in Izumo, the retreated at the site of Ujizane's army. The invasion of Bingo was much more bloody, with Lord Shimazu clearly resolved to fight to the death. The battle started with his army hiding in the woods and commanding the high ground with a clear tactical advantage. Ieyasu's army was forced to circle round to drive him out. This proved costly and my 4 cavalry units (2 yari + 2 naginta) suffered greatly from the enemy archers. My 4 teppo units could not find a good position and the rest of my infantry was obliged to head through the woods flushing out the enemy archers. The teppo had their moment though later in the battle, when they shot the enemy monks to pieces. Eventually the enemy were driven off until only Lord Shimazu and half a unit of CA's with no ammo remained. I caught Shimazu between YS abd Naginta cav and that was the end of him. Ieyasu's CA unit then chased down the remaining CA unit and it was over.
To summarise, slow but meaningful progress, an interesting battle and some screenshots should be up tomorrow. I'm still wondering what to do in the east. I am thinking of going all out against hojo and removing him from the equation.
And so it ends and now Imagawa Yoshimoto is Shogun...
https://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3253/00000006ge6.jpg
Actually it was rather dull. My course of expansion started to follow my Takeda campaign. Then Uesugi became massive and I mean truly powerful. I almost contemplated sending in the Geishas at one point but instead decided to leave it the Ninjas. They did a good job and eventually the last Uesugi Daimyo - Date Masamune - fell to the assassins blade. It was then a matter of finishing of the rebels and Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Oda). The latter eventually fell in Kawachi.
I also finished off a Hojo Geisha earlier on with my honour 6 Ninja. That was very satisfying indeed.
I'm now wondering what to do next. Everyone else seems to be playing on expert so i might give that a shot again.
:bow:
ReluctantSamurai
01-30-2009, 01:38
Perhaps a campaign starting in 1580? I don't know how much you are up for a challenge but Oda 1580 is as tough as there is, IMHO. I just wish I could crank one up myself, but my inet access is not on my own computer. Everything would have to go to disk and then transferred, etc, etc, etc. Too much of a pain.......
In a month or so I get into my new digs with inet access:2thumbsup: but I'm resigned to a bystander for now:no:
I too was going to suggest expert Oda, but starting in 1530. I`m just curious to see how somebody else would have done it in comparison to my own Oda campaign.
I've just tried Oda/Expert/1550 three times. Each time I've been utterly destroyed by the Ronin in the first few seasons. In the last attempt I was forced to defend Owari from 4 units of monks and assorted others. I will try a more isolationist approach next time, only moving when I'm strong enough.
Sasaki Kojiro
01-31-2009, 22:14
Yeah as I recall from that campaign as soon as you take one of those ronin provinces that look like easy pickings you see a big stack of monks in the next province over...I'll have to try it out again.
ReluctantSamurai
01-31-2009, 22:20
One word...........guns.
The dutch hadn't arrived, but yes I'm going for that familiar strategy next time and I won't be heading westwards either.
Oda/Expert/1550
https://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7673/00000001dq6.jpg
Starting out, I decided to stay put and tech up. I had accepted the Portuguese and begun upgrading Owari to produce Teppo. Then after a few years saw the opportunity and went for Imagawa. Imagawa and his few Ashigaru and Archers made an easy victory.
https://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2623/00000002sy9.jpg
Imagawa had no where to run as Takeda arrived in Totomi the same season...
https://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7269/00000004wk9.jpg
I decide to take on Takeda in Shinano - mainly to curb it's advancement and not take the province. The result is a close defeat with Nobunaga losing a star, but thankfully not his life. Next I decided to send in the Shinobi and got Totomi and Shinano to revolt.
https://img403.imageshack.us/img403/695/00000005pq5.jpg
Nobunaga Invades Totomi...
https://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1345/00000006oj6.jpg
And does pretty well...
https://img440.imageshack.us/img440/641/00000008sk3.jpg
Shinobi activity in Suruga causes the reappearance of the Imagawa clan led by Tokugawa Ieyasu.
https://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9941/00000013ef0.jpg
Toyotomi Hideyoshi leads his first successful campaign to Ise.
Sasaki Kojiro
02-01-2009, 23:56
Interesting caravel. Just two more provinces until you can get the cathedral, what are your plans?
In truth I haven't got a clue... :dizzy2:
I may make for Musashi and then go for Shinano when strong enough or I could continue westwards. The Takeda are getting stronger however so I may concentrate my efforts on keeping them down for now.
This is my Shimazu (Expert/Huge Units/Starting 1530) campaign so far:
https://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5110/00000007h.jpg
So far I've moved aggressively against the ronin with Chikugo being the short term objective. I got lucky there as there were only two units of Ashigaru defending. Not much koku yet and I've had taxes pushed way up while fighting off ronin in Higo, but that now looks set to change. It looks like it could be interesting though and Lord Shimazu is never short of heirs after all.
Input as to suggested strategies will be much appreciated, as ever.
:bow:
Togakure
07-27-2009, 01:20
With the Shimmies I've found that a constant push (no turtle) strategy works best, else whichever of the powerful eastern clans that emerge dominant are really nasty by the time you get to them. First orders of business for me are 1) securing Kyushu and a foothold on Honshu (Nagato), 2) beating Mori (Takeda? Mori is absent in one of the campaigns; I can't remember which) to control of Shikoku and the nice bonus buildings in Tosa (iirc, in 1530), and 3) defeating the Mori/Takeda while at the same time constantly pressing for Kyoto. I consider the first major phase of that campaign accomplished when I control Kawachi, Harima, Tajima, Yamashiro, and everything west of these.
Managing cash flow is always a challenge with the Shims, but you're a highly experienced SP player so that shouldn't be a problem for you. Chevauchee tactics can sometimes be necessary in order to maintain pace of expansion, and control of your enemy's (Mori's/Takeda's) expansion. Alliances are important early on for the additional income. The Shims are respected and trusted more than most other clans, so you should be able to secure several, provided your emissaries are not assassinated before they complete their missions. Iirc you start with an emissary but don't have a Tranquil Garden. So protecting your diplomats (by choosing their routes carefully and trying to anticipate ninja attack) and prioritizing a Garden is important.
The unknown for me in your scenario is huge units. I play with 60-man units so I'm not sure how playing with huge units affects things in SP. I do remember that in MP, using huge units had a drastic effect on what worked and what didn't and limited maneuverability tactics because units occupied so much more space and could effectively defend a larger area. This gave infantry a big boost and reduced cavalry effectiveness somewhat.
When I get my next Shogun itch I'll have to try some huge unit campaigns. Amazing after all the games I've played, there are still new options to try. Gotta luv Shoggie.
Edit: Oh, fight a lot of battles with experienced units and get that Swordsman event! Bonused No Dachi are a big advantage early on.
With the Shimmies I've found that a constant push (no turtle) strategy works best, else whichever of the powerful eastern clans that emerge dominant are really nasty by the time you get to them. First orders of business for me are 1) securing Kyushu and a foothold on Honshu (Nagato), 2) beating Mori (Takeda? Mori is absent in one of the campaigns; I can't remember which) to control of Shikoku and the nice bonus buildings in Tosa (iirc, in 1530), and 3) defeating the Mori/Takeda while at the same time constantly pressing for Kyoto. I consider the first major phase of that campaign accomplished when I control Kawachi, Harima, Tajima, Yamashiro, and everything west of these.
Well I tend to turtle a campaign, almost instincitvely, but this time around I've gone straight for the throat. Imagawa reappeared and the ronin in Hizen, Chikuzen and Buzen (re)joined them. I decided not to wait until they'd shipped in any more units from Totomi and attacked. This strategy has paid off and left me in complete control of Kyushu. My next move will probably be against Nagato, Takeda Shingen is there with a small force (probably shipped in via Aki). It would be best to deal with Shingen now before he establishes a major foothold on my doorstep.
Managing cash flow is always a challenge with the Shims, but you're a highly experienced SP player so that shouldn't be a problem for you. Chevauchee tactics can sometimes be necessary in order to maintain pace of expansion, and control of your enemy's (Mori's/Takeda's) expansion. Alliances are important early on for the additional income. The Shims are respected and trusted more than most other clans, so you should be able to secure several, provided your emissaries are not assassinated before they complete their missions. Iirc you start with an emissary but don't have a Tranquil Garden. So protecting your diplomats (by choosing their routes carefully and trying to anticipate ninja attack) and prioritizing a Garden is important.
I've now accepted the Portuguese and have a lot of Christian emissaries. I have one question that's just occured to me: Is there any value in still training Buddhist emissaries to deal with the Buddhist Daimyos? (funnily enough I've never considered that before)
The unknown for me in your scenario is huge units. I play with 60-man units so I'm not sure how playing with huge units affects things in SP. I do remember that in MP, using huge units had a drastic effect on what worked and what didn't and limited maneuverability tactics because units occupied so much more space and could effectively defend a larger area. This gave infantry a big boost and reduced cavalry effectiveness somewhat.
I've always played on huge units since STW v1.0. And when I got MTW I went straight into huge units as well. I'm one of those people that buys a game and goes straight into the options messing about before I play it. I definitely find it more immersive and more challenging. I've tried the smaller unit sizes and had a spell playing on the next size down, but in the end I returned to huge. One of the main factors is the two season training time. This means you have to think ahead and you can't just train a unit just in time (i.e. as an enemy is about to invade).
When I get my next Shogun itch I'll have to try some huge unit campaigns. Amazing after all the games I've played, there are still new options to try. Gotta luv Shoggie.
:2thumbsup:
Edit: Oh, fight a lot of battles with experienced units and get that Swordsman event! Bonused No Dachi are a big advantage early on.
Yes I've managed that now. It took longer than usual this time around. I'm about to train some of the famed Satsuma Nodachi.
I'll post an updated map this evening.
:bow:
Togakure
07-27-2009, 09:53
Well I tend to turtle a campaign, almost instincitvely, but this time around I've gone straight for the throat. Imagawa reappeared and the ronin in Hizen, Chikuzen and Buzen (re)joined them. I decided not to wait until they'd shipped in any more units from Totomi and attacked. This strategy has paid off and left me in complete control of Kyushu. My next move will probably be against Nagato, Takeda Shingen is there with a small force (probably shipped in via Aki). It would be best to deal with Shingen now before he establishes a major foothold on my doorstep.
I'd forgotten that the Imagawa start with Hizen in that campaign. I race up and try to take Chikugo (the river province) before they do. River battles as the attacker can be costly. I then take Hizen asap, to take control of or destroy the port. That's a tough break you describe--creates a delay, allowing the Takeda to strengthen their western position. Good thing you acted quickly. If Shingen is in the game then it's past 1536. In that scenario (1530) I try to deal with Shingen before he arrives :beam: (by sacking Aki asap, and any other Takeda-controlled, troop-producing province in the west if others have been built, forcing his spawn in the east). Shingen can be a bit of a pain when encountered early on.before you've established a solid income. The western lands are poor, and it takes time and investment to get the ports and mines going.
I've now accepted the Portuguese and have a lot of Christian emissaries. I have one question that's just occured to me: Is there any value in still training Buddhist emissaries to deal with the Buddhist Daimyos? (funnily enough I've never considered that before)
Priests are cheaper. I believe emissaries are more likely to succeed when dealing with Buddhist clans, priests with Christian clans. Christian clans won't use assassins to kill priests iirc.
I've always played on huge units since STW v1.0. And when I got MTW I went straight into huge units as well. I'm one of those people that buys a game and goes straight into the options messing about before I play it. I definitely find it more immersive and more challenging. I've tried the smaller unit sizes and had a spell playing on the next size down, but in the end I returned to huge. One of the main factors is the two season training time. This means you have to think ahead and you can't just train a unit just in time (i.e. as an enemy is about to invade).
Interesting. My primary enjoyment comes from the battles, and my favorite units are cavalry. Hence I like having small units that allow for more maneuvering and flanking on STW's relatively small maps.
Each training center I build usually specializes in one type of unit. I don't build many of them, usually one per unit type that I use (Spear, Archer, Cav, Shock). Though I can't in the earliest stages of the game, once my economy gets going, I build a unit a turn whether I need it immediately or not, keeping a "chain" of reinforcements flowing to the front. This would take longer with huge units, but the end result is similar. I've found that this method is pretty much necessary when employing a constant expansion strategy. It will be interesting to see how huge units affects this method. I am used to finishing a 1530 game between 1550 and 1555. I think huge units will drastically affect how the game turns out. I'll have to try it and see if I find it enjoyable. At the very least it will be different--that's something I haven't experienced in STW for a while.
Looking forward to seeing how things turn out. :bow:
Shingen will provide an interesting challenge - and if I lose well that is the "way of the warrior" after all. I've never had issues with the huge units on the smaller maps - I suppose I prefer the smaller maps as the MTW maps seemed a bit too large to me and units tire completely walking from one side to the other anyway.
That reminds me... I've noticed a "bug". I can't believe I've never noticed this before... When moving groups around they tend to always "run". :dizzy2:
I've not played STW/MI extensively - I had finished the game several times before MI was released - and I don't remember this problem in STW v1.x (but maybe it was always there and I had never noticed). Any ideas on a workaround or solution for this? It's very annoying having to move units one at a time to stop them running and tiring out...
:bow:
Togakure
07-27-2009, 10:53
Hmm, I've not noticed that. With a single click? At first, when troops are fresh, I've noticed that they move "quickly." But after that I assumed they lost their initial vigor and just walked unless specifically ordered to run. I'd have to test this to know for sure.
I move as an army at first (all grouped), to a (hopefully advantageous) position where I intend to engage the enemy, using the all-army rotate command when I need to angle. Then I separate them all and command units individually (a common MP method). I always assign numbered groups, but don't use them very often in SP. When I do, it's usually to bring that group to a common place after the battle has been going for a while and troops are scattered about. I don't use hard groups much because I often use the tabs to select, and too often in the frenzy of battle I've accidentally double-clicked instead of single-clicked a unit, selecting the group instead of the desired unit within that group to attack something. This is usually not a good thing.
Heh, I run around a lot. Both Tosa and Puzz have teased me, observing in past games that I had been to just about every place on a map over the course of a battle. I expect my troops to be tough, and to perform! :whip: No rest for the ... err ... nvm.
I actually group similar units but I don't use those groups as groups if that makes sense? I also ungoup and change groups around. Anyway I noticed this problem whenever two or more units are selected, whether they are grouped or not. They run everywhere, on single clik movement, until they're exhausted. I will be interested to hear of your findings.
:bow:
ReluctantSamurai
07-27-2009, 14:00
I am used to finishing a 1530 game between 1550 and 1555.
Yikes! With my playing style, I've probably conquered a dozen or so provinces in that same time-span:dizzy2:
I've not noticed that grouped units move dbl-time....the unit cards show run but, IIRC, the units themselves are walking......I could be wrong tho'................
I use grouping much more on defense than the attack.....preferring more micro-managing when the aggressor. I'd use grouping much more probably if I didn't find the deployment formations so useless for the attacker. I'm a big user of CA and they should be at the front of my army, dammit, not stuck behind all the other cav:laugh4:
More on topic.....I'd evict the Takeda from Nagato, ASAP, as there are no provinces on Shikoku that have ironsands for an armory. When I play Shimazu, I accept for guns as soon as they're available, and Nagato will eventually get the gun factory (it's one of the few provinces that meets all the conditions) and I have muskets long before anyone else:beam:
Togakure
07-27-2009, 14:16
Heh, I'm by no means one of the speedier players who've have posted here over the years. Sasaki, Noir, and others have said they've completed campaigns in 10-12 game years. I've never been able to do that. Iirc, they even posted campaign reports illustrating how they did it somewhere in here. It was quite a while ago though.
I'll have to check to see if the units are actually running when I fight the next battle, though I was sure they were. (-edit: They'll probably be running from Shingen in the next battle anyway...)
Anyway this is the latest:
https://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1951/00000010.jpg
At the moment I'm raising troops and trying to fortify my position but I will be moving against Shingen next. Also my provinces are no where near converted so I need to convert them to just above 50% to stabilise a bit first. Taxes are on punitive though so it's ok so far. Garissons are only single units of Ashigaru. I'm building a Sword Dojo in Satsuma and it's also ready to train Portuguese Teppo Ashigaru if needed. As you can see my forces have only just arrived in Hizen and I have a lot of farm upgrades to build there. I suppose I'm neither a turtler or a blitzer. I usually build up then expand rapidly and then wait several years before expanding again.
:bow:
ReluctantSamurai
07-28-2009, 15:07
One of the things often overlooked by players reluctant to convert to Christianity is the income bonuses generated by Portuguese trading posts and a cathedral (if you choose to go that route). For an income-starved clan like the Shimazu, that can really jump start the war effort. I can't tell you how many times the extra 1200+ koku from a cathedral and the 200 from each trading post has saved my butt during 'poor harvest' years. I remember one campaign, as Imagawa, where I had 5 consecutive...and 7 out of 10 of those things:dizzy2:
Even with the added income I was barely able to hang on and then because I resorted to something I rarely do which is mass assassination of enemy generals (making my battles somewhat easier).
I see you have a bevy of priests. For some reason, probably because they are such easy ninja targets, I never use them.....preferring to let the churches I construct spread 'the word.'
If you can afford it, you could take on Shingen with the echelon tactic, perhaps. Send a decent enough army to cause casualties, and then a second one to finish him off. With 5 stars already, it's highly unlikely he'll be gaining another anytime soon....................
Togakure
07-28-2009, 16:15
Indeed. A Cathedral has pricey prerequisites and requires churches to be built. The value really kicks in if other clans have gone Christian and are building churches (this doesn't seem to happen often in my games). In the 1580 campaign I try to take the Oda Cathedral from them (in Ise).
Trading Posts are excellent sources of income for a Christian daimyo. I like ports, mines, mine complexes and trading posts because they yield a constant income, unaffected by seasonal variances.
Rapid expansion means more koku faster from each province conquered. Because the Shimmies are poor and the lands between them and Kyoto aren't particularly rich (but many ...), the rapid expansion strategy really helps maintain financial growth and military expense parity. One great thing about the western lands is, almost all are coastal, and can support both port and trading post. Once you get a good number of ports and trading posts going, the rest of the game gets pretty easy.
When I do battle with a 6-star general, my primary objective is to kill him on the field. If he dies, a mass rout is pretty much guaranteed from the huge loss of morale (death of the general penalty and -3 honor, which equates to -6 morale). You just need to keep your army massed and right on the enemy's butt until they leave the map.
Hmm. I guess I'll mention this. You can change your taxes to Punishing in the fall, reap the larger profit, and then return taxes to minimal the following winter to reduce population discontent and leave it there until the following fall. You'll reap maximum harvest value this way, and loyalty will improve much faster over time. I consider this an exploit, but I guess you could say that you are manipulating the perceptions of the population, lying to them most of the year and then declaring a higher tax at harvest. Wouldn't be so different from what a lot of politicians have done historically.
ReluctantSamurai
07-29-2009, 02:22
When I do battle with a 6-star general, my primary objective is to kill him on the field.
Agreed. Here it depends on where the AI deploys. Nagato is an uphill battle all the way. If the AI deploys on the first hill, it's not too difficult to flank. But if it turtles on those hills in the upper left corner................:wall:
I consider this an exploit, but I guess you could say that you are manipulating the perceptions of the population, lying to them most of the year and then declaring a higher tax at harvest. Wouldn't be so different from what a lot of politicians have done historically.
:laugh4::laugh4:
The latest:
https://img82.imageshack.us/img82/9093/00000015z.jpg
I've now begun larger scale Teppo and Nodachi training. Had a few battles so far and currently at war with Takeda. Trading posts are bringing in a decent income.
So what next, do you think? I presume you're planning on taking Sanuki to complete your conquest of Shikoku, but the choice seems to be less clear after that. Time to expand your Nagato bridgehead and start pushing northwards up Honshu, perhaps?
ReluctantSamurai
08-01-2009, 16:33
Tosa is a nice place to train teppo, with the ashi bonus:yes:
Personally, I'd take a two-prong approach:
1. Expand the Nagato bridgehead, as suggested by Martok, but only as far as Aki (at least in the short term). The lands further north will need conquering eventually, but they are poor koku yield and will tie up at least two armies if not three.
2. Push into Kawachi before it gets too heavily defended. Expand into nearby Harima and Bizen. Harima for it's mine and farmland, Bizen for it's cheaper port. Kawachi is fairly easy to defend and gives you a springboard into central Japan much quicker than slogging up Honshu.
It's nearly always been my experience that if you advance along a single axis, the AI just pours everything it has into your path, and you end up going strength against strength. I prefer to give the AI more choices to go wrong and guessing (Kirk to Spock: "Just make your best guess.":laugh4:) as to where your real intentions are.
My 2cents
Lord Takeda moves to retake Nagato:
https://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3958/00000016a.jpg
The Shimazu army in Nagato constists mostly of Yari Samurai and Samurai Archers. Additionally two units of Teppo Ashigaru and another two of Nodachi Samuari join the battle with Lord Shimazu himself leading.
https://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3662/00000020t.jpg
The resulting battle was a quick defensive engagement with the Takeda army taking heavy losses and routing before the volleys from our guns. (yes I shamefully corner camped this one, but positioning was very awkward - any other position would probably have placed me directly downhill of the Takeda army - who brought along a lot of Archers and Cavalry archers as well).
https://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6085/00000021x.jpg
This is how things stand at present. Takeda has moved against Iwami twice and did once retake both Awa and Awaji. The Cathedral will soon be built in Satsuma and yes I am training +1 honour Teppo Ashigaru in Tosa.
I will be moving into Kawachi but I probably need to push further north into Honshu first. I should be able to train another decent army stack soon when the Cathedral is built. The income from Lord Takeda's churches will help as well.
:bow:
Originally posted by Asai Nagamasa
That reminds me... I've noticed a "bug". I can't believe I've never noticed this before... When moving groups around they tend to always "run".
I've not played STW/MI extensively - I had finished the game several times before MI was released - and I don't remember this problem in STW v1.x (but maybe it was always there and I had never noticed). Any ideas on a workaround or solution for this? It's very annoying having to move units one at a time to stop them running and tiring out...
This is not a bug AFAIK.
When you group units and give the group the single click order to move to a place certain units will run to maintain the distances of the initial set up. The group moves in a common speed, so the slower units need to run occasionally in order to maintain it.
This is especially so if the group needs to rotate; by geometry the outter units/soldiers will run much faster than the inner ones (outer and inner with resepct to the certain of the rotation) in the same way that circumferences of a rotating circle have speeds proportional to the corresponding radii, that is the further from the centre the faster they spin (in order to maintain a common speed for the whole); the centre it self has 0 speed.
If you make a group of the same unit type and order them to march straight in a flat, none of the units will be running.
Similar things happen in MTW.
:bow:
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