Question about a different KH starting position

[Gunzak]

I was curious if it would be viable to move all the KH troops from southern Greece and take Krete and then move into Asia as a starting position and leave Sparta and Athens to the Makedonians. Are there enough recruitment places in Asia to build armies up if I move all my armies east and conquer territory there? Will there be enough income producing teritories to support an army?

I can easily conquer Greece and Macedon as either KH or the Makedonians and just want to try a different strategy.

[Dayve]

Of course there are. Almost every city in Asia Minor will allow you to recruit basically your full tree of Greek units, and most cities in Asia Minor are very, very profitable. Pergamon, for example... it has a huge population and it's in an amazing spot for trade income.

The Greeks are a really fun faction for migration. You can migrate basically anywhere on the map and roleplay it as you just started there or some such, because the Greeks had colonies pretty much all over just about every coast in the game.

[Gunzak]

Next time I start a KH campaign I will try that then. I will abandon southern Greece and take Krete then move my forces to Asia and make that my homeland. This should be fun to test out.

[Novellus]

Asia Minor is a very difficult land to try to conquer. There are several enemies and potential enemies who linger the Anatolian wasteland, along with powerful Eleutheroi armies and cities. Taking Krete may be useful when it comes to moving away from the mainland, but there are several things that will happen the moment you head towards Asia Minor.

Halicarnassos would be a natural target considering how close to Rhodes it is. But attacking it would be unacceptable to the Ptolemaic empire and you'd be at war with them. If you are just starting out, you will not be in the position to challenge their phalangites.

Sardis would be a reasonable target. You are already at war with the Seleukids, so it wouldn't be anything new. But they will not be the easiest to hold out against. There are several complaints about the "gray death", or the stacks of elite phalanx units sent against you later on. The Seleukids declare a ceasefire later on, so attacking would be illadvised if you can deal with another enemy instead.

Pergamon would appear to be a good target, but attack it at your own peril. There are very powerful hellenic-based forces, including Misthoropoi Phalangatai units (Hellenic Medium Phalanxes), along with Hoplitai and Thureophoroi. With the initial force of Hellenes you have, it may not be an easy taking. Also, there is a second army in Ionia that will attack the moment you siege Pergamon as a relief force. So be prepared to counter them if you decide to siege Pergamon.

There is a way to hold your ground in Greece without having too much difficulty with the Makedonians. On the first turn, instead of sieging Krete, load your soldiers onto the boat and unload them near Athens. March your armies near Sparta to the boats and have them cross into the area South of Athens. You should be able to unload those units, which you should do. In Athens, recruit two units of Hippakonistai. Trust me, you'll be glad you did. On the second turn, the Makedonians merge armies to create a large stack outside of Athens. Take your soldiers and attack the Makedonians and attack the Makedonian army outside of Chalkis. You should be able to win the battle, and you can use your cavalry units to kill off the routing enemies (which infantry do poorly at due to fatigue). It reduces the number of units you have to fight later on and often the enemy armies route completely and disappear from the map. With your soldiers from Krete, move the navy toward the city of Mytilene. The garrison consists of only two units, and they can be defeated by the Spartiartai bodyguard and some Hoplitai Haploi (I use the Akonistai to throw javelins from behind to make battles quicker). You should be able to have the city in about two turns.

When you conquer Mytilene, leave one unit of soldiers behind as a garrison, but send the others back and have them wait in Chalkida. They can help out Athens if it is under siege, but more importantly, wait until it is safe to take back Corinth. This can be done by waiting for the giant stack to move far away enough so that they cannot arrive to attack by the time you assault the city. At one time, Corinth was defended by only a few units of Hoplitai Haploi and the Companion Cavalry of the general.

Make sure plenty of missile units are in Athens. When the Makedonians attack, they tend to run off to the side of the city in sally battles. Slingers and the Kretan archers deal tremendous damage to the enemy from Athens's walls.

When these are done, the income should begin to increase. Then you can build appropriate forces to take Asia Minor. I pushed forward into Makedonia first though to take Demetrias and Pella later on. Once developed, you can train a good selection of cavalry units to deal with the armies of Asia Minor. Or you could head to Italy and take Syracuse and Messana. And if Epeiros lost the city of Taras to the Romans and you are at war with the Romans, taking Taras would give access to the powerful cavalry units you want, along with allowing retraining to occur immediately. So it is your choice. If you believe you are able to establish a foothold in Asia Minor, then go for it. But if you would like to stand your ground in Greece and then launch a prepared campaign, then I have provided advice on how to withstand the Makedonian assault.

[Gunzak]

I don't have any problem destroying the Makedonians as the KH faction I am just looking for something a little harder and more fun. Once I destroy the Makedonian army to the south I can usually steamroll them and finish them off in a few years and then quickly finish off the Epitotes.

[Dayve]

Halikarnassos won't be hard to take, he has like 4 family members, and their bodyguard are spartan hoplites.

[Novellus]

I don't have any problem destroying the Makedonians as the KH faction I am just looking for something a little harder and more fun. Once I destroy the Makedonian army to the south I can usually steamroll them and finish them off in a few years and then quickly finish off the Epitotes.

Oh, well that's good to hear then. It gives me an idea on how much you can handle. If you want to migrate into Asia Minor, take Mytilene for a base, then Pergamon (get ready to be attacked by Ionians), and Sardis is a good choice as well. Pergamon is very useful because cavalry units can be trained there such as the Hippeis Xystophoroi and Prodromoi units. But it will take quite a few turns to build it up to that level But if you want that challenge, by all means, go to Asia Minor. Get ready for a real fight!:2thumbsup:

[tapanojum]

You can also "move character" your stacks to Massalia, and role play the Greek Colonies there. It's a bit difficult at first, because the immediate couple towns nearby, are not enough income to support your armies. And Rome has a tendency to go for Massalia, but once you get passed that, it is a super fun spin on a KH game.

Greek Armies vs Barbarians and Romans, and Carthigians :D