View Full Version : Is there any good, somewhat historical, ancient period film?
Besides Alexander.... Cause the other day I was looking for one , but I just couldn't fin any.
(Also, besides HBO's Rome)
Or if anything fails, what about interesting documentaries?
teh1337tim
01-13-2009, 06:47
The history channel documentary of Thermopolyae is imho the best representation of ancient hoplite warfare and of thermopolyae itself.... funny thing it was releeased exactly 1 yeara after 300...
guess history channels way of attacking 300 :D
Nachtmeister
01-13-2009, 08:16
There is a self-made documentary on the battle of Gaugamela by a retired GI-officer on google video that goes into the tactical aspects to a higher extent than most documentaries. The battle and tactics from a retired USMC-captain's point of view - unless that guy is just a nutter posing as a veteran, of course. But take a look for yourself - http://www.veoh.com/videos/v14943377zRFcw7xz
chenkai11
01-13-2009, 08:33
Last Jan. 11, 2009, I watch History channel about the city of Athen during the golden age of ancient Greeks. Then the conflict between Athenians and the Spartans. The wall and ships built by the Athenians, and the super soldiers of Sparta.
Then some scenes of hoplites marching in phalanx formation, with the spears held in underhand and over the shield. :inquisitive:
delablake
01-13-2009, 12:07
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v14943377zRFcw7xz[/url]
I've seen all of those guys in other programs like Time Commanders and on the History Channell, they are definitely genuine experts...
btw..anyone knows what happened to Mr. Aryeh Nusbacher, the Sandhurst top-historian who changed sex?
Maion Maroneios
01-13-2009, 14:34
Then some scenes of hoplites marching in phalanx formation, with the spears held in underhand and over the shield. :inquisitive:
Please, let us not turn this into a hoplite animation debate.
Maion
caeser44
01-13-2009, 14:41
IRON MAIDEN, LIVE AFTER DEATH. It is a concert about the powerslave album, which is about ancient Egypt. Just joking, I heard there was a filmcalled "Augustus:" which was about his rise to power, but have never saw it.
Puupertti Ruma
01-13-2009, 17:48
There is a self-made documentary on the battle of Gaugamela by a retired GI-officer on google video that goes into the tactical aspects to a higher extent than most documentaries. The battle and tactics from a retired USMC-captain's point of view - unless that guy is just a nutter posing as a veteran, of course. But take a look for yourself - http://www.veoh.com/videos/v14943377zRFcw7xz
Hey, it's Colonel Sink from Band of Brothers! Cool! And very good document also. Thanks for the link!
I haven't seen it, but this might be interessting; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Claudius_(TV_series)
Is there any good, somewhat historical, ancient period film?
Besides Alexander....
LOL
I've heard of a movie called "Three-Hundred". It's said to be quite historically inaccurate :clown:
Best historical film I've seen has to be Tora, Tora, Tora. It's about Pearl Harbor, and amazingly for a film made by Americans in the 60's (Even today), Hollywood is balanced between both sides.
I've seen all of those guys in other programs like Time Commanders and on the History Channell, they are definitely genuine experts...
btw..anyone knows what happened to Mr. Aryeh Nusbacher, the Sandhurst top-historian who changed sex?
he changed sex? Are you joking?:embarassed:
EDIT: the "colonel sink" fellow you see in that video up there is a guy named Dale dye (I think I misspelled the last name). he is indeed ex-military.
he isnt joking...
BBC has did a few very good documentaries/ dramas
There is one on Hannibal's campaign against rome, that is shot as a historical drama and is quite accurate and there is a more documentary style programme to go with it (reconstructions and battle scenes 1000 times better than anything i have ever seen on the history channel)
There is also a series on Roman Emperors and important figures from thier history as a historical drama with narration and acting like in the hannibal one. The emperors include Nero and constantine but also one on julius ceaser and Alaric and Tiberis Gracchus. Also much better and more entertaining than anything on the history channel, though rome rise and fall nearly approaches them.
They may seem like they are just for entertainment but the series are quite accurate.
Also there was one on genghis khan aswell, which even the spides(chavs) in my classes watched. Also historical.
They are all entertaining and educating. Might be on youtube or dvd. Definately worth a look.
he isnt joking....
when did the person get it? I never noticed-seriously:dizzy2:
EDIT: oh, I see now: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article27762.ece
but isn't she already married with a daughter from her wife? If so, how should I adress her? Is Mrs. Adequate?
seriously, this is all confusing to me.
BBC has did a few very good documentaries/ dramas
There is one on Hannibal's campaign against rome, that is shot as a historical drama and is quite accurate and there is a more documentary style programme to go with it (reconstructions and battle scenes 1000 times better than anything i have ever seen on the history channel)
There is also a series on Roman Emperors and important figures from thier history as a historical drama with narration and acting like in the hannibal one. The emperors include Nero and constantine but also one on julius ceaser and Alaric and Tiberis Gracchus. Also much better and more entertaining than anything on the history channel, though rome rise and fall nearly approaches them.
They may seem like they are just for entertainment but the series are quite accurate.
Also there was one on genghis khan aswell, which even the spides(chavs) in my classes watched. Also historical.
They are all entertaining and educating. Might be on youtube or dvd. Definately worth a look
.
yeah, BBC is a very good source for documentaries and dramas. its why i watch its north America version (BBC America). there was a branch of Discovery in the middle east, discovery civilization, that broadcast BBC documentaries (I dunno about Europe's though)-they used to be the best indeed..
now I'm stuck with a cartload of dung...:no:
when did the person get it? I never noticed-seriously:dizzy2:
EDIT: oh, I see now: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article27762.ece
but isn't she already married with a daughter from her wife? If so, how should I adress her? Is Mrs. Adequate?
seriously, this is all confusing to me.
The world we live in
He's Lynnetye Nusbacher now :yes:
Warning, Potentially disturbing image
http://www.spock.com/i/Mj1lXvL2i/Lynette-Nusbacher.jpg
Now, back on topic, that Gaugamela documentary was... actually really interesting.
Guess will have to wait how well goes the Hannibal movie by Bin Diesel <.<
Novellus
01-14-2009, 01:54
LOL
I've heard of a movie called "Three-Hundred". It's said to be quite historically inaccurate :clown:
I was really looking forward to this one:
http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a25c39215b8f3910115b9008a160025
On topic though, I really have had trouble myself finding accurate depictions of ancient warfare in many documentaries and films. I was reasonably satisfied with the History Channel's documentary on Thermopylae though. I would be happy to hear some of the recommendations as well, like some documentaries on the tactics of the other armies, such as the "barbarians" North of Italy.
Side note: I have a history test on the creation of the United States tomorrow. Wish me luck! :2thumbsup:
antisocialmunky
01-14-2009, 03:23
If only there were enough crazy Russians that were interested in ancient Greece to do massive reenactments like Vyborg:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zGjex6qDtM
The 10 minute video got taken down but that had a very epic merge of two shield walls.
chenkai11
01-14-2009, 04:26
very nice video. If I could, I would like to participate.
Thanks for sharing.
Wow... heheh gotta love the russians =P
That seems quite fun... shame that no-one knows that there were epic fights in ancient times as well..
The whole tale about medieval knights has made ancient history 'boring' to most people <.<
I haven't seen it, but this might be interessting; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Claudius_(TV_series)
It's all dialogue-driven, so don't watch if you're looking for lots of action and big battle scenes. It obviously looks very dated now, but is still extremely entertaining. Gives you a good idea of the intra-family dynamics during the Julio-Claudian dynasty. It's also very witty, and surprisingly funny.
delablake
01-14-2009, 09:12
back to topic: Alexander and 300 are (in)famous enough, as the HBO-series Rome. Furthermore: Spartacus (Stanley Kubrick), Gladiator (Ridley Scott), a BBC/discovery channell movie on Hannibal (with Alexander Siddig), 2 TV-movies called Augustus and Nero (from a series called Imperium), another mini-series called Masada (depicting the siege of the Jewish fortress), the rather completely crappy Troj (Wolfgang Petersen), the famous Ben Hur (Charlton Heston) and good, old-fashioned movies from the 50ies and 60ies, like Cleopatra, The Robe, Quo Vadis and The Fall of the Roman Empire, all with a star-studded cast...
Then there are a lot of movies on Jesus Christ, but that's another thing...
oh,yes I forgot:
the Arab countries produce good historicals as well-sorry for not mentioning that. I liked the baybars series as well as the apostacy wars series-they were good (the second one in particular was top notch in accuracy). Baybars was a little more action oriented, and depicted stereotypical mongols-which is not a good thing. otherwise, it told it as it was.:yes:
the biggest problem though is the poor budget many have-the blood effects are piss poor, and look plain silly...
antisocialmunky
01-14-2009, 19:29
Speaking of the Mid-East movies, whatever happened to that movie about the Persian side of the Persian Wars that Iran said it would produce.
Nirvanish
01-14-2009, 19:44
Speaking of the Mid-East movies, whatever happened to that movie about the Persian side of the Persian Wars that Iran said it would produce.
Now that is potentially one movie I would like to see.
The Persian Cataphract
01-14-2009, 20:35
I wouldn't. Anything that the Islamic regime of Iran touches when it comes to history turns into shit. Period.
Speaking of the Mid-East movies, whatever happened to that movie about the Persian side of the Persian Wars that Iran said it would produce.
the persian wars as in the 490-470BC?
or the 334-327BC, the fighting between parthia and Seleucia, parthia and Roma, Sassanid persia and roma, or that one that seems to embarrass the nationalists? :clown:
seriously, there are lots of those wars..
@TPC: too early too tell-for all we know, the regime hasn't really bothered with it, besides support. wait till its released (if it even gets done)
I wouldn't. Anything that the Islamic regime of Iran touches when it comes to history turns into shit. Period.
Have you seen Persepolis? I saw the French with subtitles, and it's the only movie that's ever made me laugh, cry and completely change my opinion about something all in one. The only piece of media that comes close to doing that is Palestine by Joe Sacco.
Nirvanish
01-14-2009, 22:51
I wouldn't. Anything that the Islamic regime of Iran touches when it comes to history turns into shit. Period.
Yeah thats part of it. I'm sure they could put some imaginative touch to it to give it some comedic value.
antisocialmunky
01-15-2009, 00:22
I wouldn't. Anything that the Islamic regime of Iran touches when it comes to history turns into shit. Period.
Well, we are talking about a response to 300's portrayl of Persia. :whip: I can't really imagine how it would be worse.
The Fuzz
01-15-2009, 00:33
Have you seen Persepolis? I saw the French with subtitles, and it's the only movie that's ever made me laugh, cry and completely change my opinion about something all in one. The only piece of media that comes close to doing that is Palestine by Joe Sacco.
Right, that's a French film though. TPC's point still stands, perhaps unfortunately. But Persepolis is one of my favorite films, and I'm glad others have seen it too.
a completely inoffensive name
01-15-2009, 01:48
There is a self-made documentary on the battle of Gaugamela by a retired GI-officer on google video that goes into the tactical aspects to a higher extent than most documentaries. The battle and tactics from a retired USMC-captain's point of view - unless that guy is just a nutter posing as a veteran, of course. But take a look for yourself - http://www.veoh.com/videos/v14943377zRFcw7xz
I loved watching this.
SwebozGaztiz
01-15-2009, 02:09
the movie hannibal seems to be really good, ive watched some videos on youtube and it looks amazing im looking forward to buy it, i would like to see a movie about the easter civilizations like the parthians, is that movie youre talking about, Persepolis, a french movie?whats the theme of that movie??sounds good i would like to watch it. I think alexander would have been a much more better movie if the cast would have been different, i think a cast of unknown actors would have done much much better
Isn't it about some girl who lives in Iran? It was in the news a year ago or so.
SwebozGaztiz
01-15-2009, 03:10
oh i see i would like to get more info about the movie, anyone got some links or previews???thanks!
antisocialmunky
01-15-2009, 04:30
Persepolis is about the Glorious Iranian Revolution. You can just go and wikipedia it for more info.
The Persian Cataphract
01-15-2009, 15:32
I don't care what anyone has to say about my stance towards an illegal regime that indulges in nothing more than a pot-kettle, reactionary, and completely unprofessional antics otherwise in the complete opposite to their real activities: Systematic destruction of historical heritage. Gross neglect. Embezzlement of funds which otherwise should be going to preservation. Hiring incompetent fucktards to be project leaders, who deliberately sabotage monuments. Religiously inspired criticism of an antiquity older than their putrid, and foreign ideology. Spending millions of dollars on heritage projects abroad of "Islamic nature", yet archaeologists working on UNESCO-inscribed projects can't even afford to pay for lunch with the funds that they receive after the rich and spoiled kids of the high establishment have finished paying for expensive cars or stupid Bulgari-bracelets. Thousands of academicians are yearly dismissed from their tenures because of irrational, religiously inspired regulations, where everything must be kept clean and tidy in accordance to Islamic scruples. Some, even murdered in cold blood.
It is therefore very easy for me to shrug off these cheap charades and assess them for what they truly are. So what if Hollywood produced films like "Alexander" or "300"? Did Iranians actually feature in these films? Were there any Greeks in these films? No. It's a fantasy of the "Western society", whatever that means, to orgasm in the thought of being the successors of the Graeco-Roman legacy, and equally a Judeo-Christian culture that did not originate in Europe. Sure, it is disturbing that certain demagogues still masturbate to outdated scholarship and the philosophies contained therein. If Oliver Stone ejaculates to the thought of Alexander talking like an Irishman, and wearing a flaxen-blonde wig, hey he has the right to it. If the Persians in his fantasy are all mute cowards, wearing rags, fighting like sissies, and have flies whirling around their heads, hey he has the right to it. If "300" features Persians portrayed like effeminate, non-Caucasian, Afro-Asiatic, Mongoloid, deformed, physically disabled, forth-at-mouth, fang-toothed, goth-pierced, ninja-mask wearing, dual-katana wielding, reefer-smoking, goat-headed, sub-human filth... Guess what, I'm laughing all the way. People can apparently get away with these antics, and make an absolute fuckload of money to boot. So there is a market aimed towards an abundance of dipshits... Big deal. I'd be a millionaire too, but I'm way too honest to be a proper marketer.
What I do have a problem with, is taking these movies seriously, dignifying them by endowing them ad hoc with an intellect that they never possessed to begin with. Instead of saying "Wow, '300' smoked away 60 million dollars... And this is it?", some are rather saying "Wow, I'm so baffled because I'm like Iranian, and this is really racist.".
You know who should be offended by these two movies? Greeks themselves. Hollywood has effectively raped their moments of glory; "Alexander" is based off a below-mediocre series of books by Mary Renault, and "300" is based off a comic book. Caricatures of little to no redeeming value... Well maybe only to homosexual-rights activists who are fishing for a historical figure to leech themselves upon, or comic-fans who still live in their parents' basements and masturbate to tentacle-porn.
So why would anyone, in their right mind, even want to "retaliate"? Why make a feature film addressing the proper might of the Iranian empires in a purely reactionary manner? Iran has had at least eight dynasties of utter superpower status and we need to somehow prove this by plastering it to the face of the average consumer like a cheap McDonald's hamburger? I would rather drink gasoline and piss into a campfire. Raise that money and allocate it to the sustenance of decaying preservation programmes. Raise that money to bolster research programmes abroad. Raise that money to upgrade museums with unnecessary materials, expanding them so that valuable items do not get to decay in the basements. Raise that money into safeguarding archaeological sites, so that dipshit vandals get their asses kicked. Raise that money to anything. But not to a stupid movie which says "I'm right, you're wrong, har, har.".
All I have to do, to dispel the Hollywood illusion of Iranians being pussies, is to show the following pictures:
http://m.blog.hu/to/toriblog/image/800px-Naqsh-_e_Rostam_VI_relief_Shapur_Ist.jpg
http://chenzhen.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/cyrus-the_great_tomb.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f6/2persian_gate_wall.JPG
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Images2/Coins/Mithradates_I.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2002/2505017377_894c9a80dc.jpg
And how much did this cost me? Absolutely nothing. How much time did I spend to find these images? Practically nothing. How effective are they? Very effective. How much effect will a movie sponsored by a regime known to sponsor terrorism have on the common man worldwide? Virtually nothing, at best. At worst, it will superimpose the Islamic regime as legitimate successors of the ancient Iranian heritage, which would be the worst publicity stunt ever committed by them. This won't be felt with guilt and shame upon the Islamic regime, but upon the academicians of Iranistics and Iranology worldwide who will see all their toils, blood, sweat, and tears first burned up to ashes, and then bearing witness to the defecation upon those remains. Awesome, then assholes like David J. Strachman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_J._Strachman) will have a field day of their dreams. Guess what kind of fuel Hollywood would get then?
Thus I repeat, anything that the Islamic regime of Iran touches when it comes to history turns into shit. Period. And all I can do right now is just brace myself for the worst.
stuff
The OP asked for films, not sure if that response was publically warranted with the use of wording you have used.
Always time for an edit.
stuff.
TPC, it isn't necessarily the stance you have that was the reason for my reply, merely that the movie has yet to be released. Its generally considered ill mannered to bash a movie you have yet to see, regardless of whether a totalitarian regime made it or not, or whether you know that it will be crap or not.. afterall, the unknown is know by someone else.
The Persian Cataphract
01-15-2009, 16:45
TPC, it isn't necessarily the stance you have that was the reason for my reply, merely that the movie has yet to be released. Its generally considered ill mannered to bash a movie you have yet to see, regardless of whether a totalitarian regime made it or not, or whether you know that it will be crap or not.. afterall, the unknown is know by someone else.
It's ludicrous to assume that I'm bashing a film which doesn't exist as we speak; then you take me for a simpleton. Independent Iranian film is hailed around the world for producing artistic, thought-provoking and sometimes controversial feature films of high quality, and usually because they have shoelace-budgets or somehow force themselves into creative sprees due to bizarre regulations of censorship. They make for excellent dramatic experiences, or grand political statements.
On historical epics on the other hand, Iran holds a terrible record. The low-budget satires and early films on the lives of personalities such as Kamal ol-Molk, are generally considered to be the works of geniuses. On the other hand, the officially sponsored, multi-million dollar epics on various Shi'ite figures, including Ali Ibn Abu Talib, and Husayn Ibn Ali, as well as the depiction of Mary of Nazareth, are horrible. Period. They are so full of propagandistic messages, with modern allusions of martyrdom, "anti-Zionist" undertones, it becomes sickening. What were they thinking when they made these flicks?
So what the hell am I bashing then? Well, not the film itself. But perhaps the intentions behind its creation, the nature of its creation, its possible sponsors, and what appears to be a gigantic farce, in my opinion. Regardless if the film turns out to be utter rubbish or a masterpiece, I contend that any raised money from such an endeavour would be better spent to bolster academical institutions that suffer from a lack of funding. You can't both eat and keep the cookie at the same time.
No film will ever be historically accurate...ever. It will however try to be close and only that is down to the knowledge out there. The views on the historical correctness of a film are based on the side you believe is accurate.
Arguing the subject here will solve nothing.
Back on topic I got Hannibal today :) (not the nutty Doctor film)
antisocialmunky
01-15-2009, 17:22
You can't both eat and keep the cookie at the same time.
You know, I've never understood that idiom until today.
OT: Okay, lets just drop Iranian State sponsored movies for the sake of the forums...
@Vulg: Which one? There have been like 10 in the last decade. My Personal favorite one was the one that aired on history channel. It had good casting for Hannibal which actually kinda looked that bust of him.
I know Vin Diesel is producing and starring in Hannibal: The Conqueror that's coming out this year. I wonder how that'll be.
-Praetor-
01-15-2009, 17:24
No film will ever be historically accurate...ever. It will however try to be close and only that is down to the knowledge out there. The views on the historical correctness of a film are based on the side you believe is accurate.
Yeah, but one thing is to discuss the distance between the representation of a historical film to the historical truth (which is a problem of magnitude and grade) and another the wanton creation of rubbish films like 300 (which is an ethical problem).
Believe it or not, I've talked to common people that ended up believing that 300 depicted an accurate representation of Spartans.
@Vulg: Which one? There have been like 10 in the last decade. My Personal favorite one was the one that aired on history channel. It had good casting for Hannibal which actually kinda looked that bust of him.
The BBC one that was on the History Channel. Stars the guy out of Kingdom of Heaven who played the Saladins General. I got it on Dutch import as I didn't want to pay much and well I didn't. Just have to remember to turn the Dutch subtitles off.
Yeah, but one thing is to discuss the distance between the representation of a historical film to the historical truth (which is a problem of magnitude and grade) and another the wanton creation of rubbish films like 300 (which is an ethical problem).
Believe it or not, I've talked to common people that ended up believing that 300 depicted an accurate representation of Spartans.
300 Was suppose to be a Greek Mythological representation of the battle. They made that clear before it even came out.
Watchman
01-15-2009, 18:20
An argument that falls flat on its face the second you take a look at A) Greek mythology B) what they actually said about it, in the various surviving writings C) engage your Common Sense...
I preferred the comic, personally, whatever its numerous flaws. Way more credit for sheer artistic merit (Miller has a knack for screen composition) and way less WTFLOL junk like mutant ninjas.
Although the war elephants, dromedary lancers and Foot Clan refugee Immortals rather made me snicker...
It's ludicrous to assume that I'm bashing a film which doesn't exist as we speak; then you take me for a simpleton. .
I am not really assuming that. I know that you find the movie offensive (or any historical from the said government) mostly on more serious grounds, and that you attack the priciple behind it, not the movie itself (I got the idea ever since your posts on 300). however, its just the local custom (i.e, me) to wait and see how the movie turns out: as I said earlier(page 1 of the thread), there might not be such ideological underscores in the movie when it comes out. (though , as you said, there is a very high, almost inevitable chance that it will, and hence, it will be indeed a bad movie, and that it is better to use the money on archeological preservation). The thinking that you have about the motives behind the movie is valid for the time (today), and place (Iran), Its just not considered applicable to the movie as of yet. for all we know, there might be none(though I do agree withwhat you say, believe it or not, allbeit for different reasons).
sorry If It sounded offensive or ill mannered in any way-I meant it not. and I apologize if I sounded shallow about the subject, that wasn't meant.
anyways, back on topic:
kingdom of Heaven was indeed well portrayed historically. It has a romantic flair to it though, but otherwise the portrayals of most of the characters was good.
This is Madness! Stop going on about 300, your like a broken record, the majority can see it was for entertainment anyway, the rest don't care about history
The BBC one that was on the History Channel. Stars the guy out of Kingdom of Heaven who played the Saladins General. I got it on Dutch import as I didn't want to pay much and well I didn't. Just have to remember to turn the Dutch subtitles off.
I didn't notice him before, i suppose it is nearly a movie then.
MarcusAureliusAntoninus
01-15-2009, 19:46
Time to lock this thread.
It wasn't an EB topic to begin with and is now off that topic.
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