"Brown, hanged and flogged"

[Incongruous]

At least that is one of the many suggestions given by readers of The Telegraph about what to do with Brown.

I hope the man trips on a cobblestone and dies, he is menace to siciety, whats more I hope Labour is destroyed in the coming year, never to surface again, allowing the Liberal Democrats to take their place as second party. If it gets much worse is there anything the Crown can do to stop the Commons?

He's bloody Nero playing a tune while Rome burns.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/iainmartin/4295219/Gordon-Brown-brings-Britain-to-the-edge-of-bankruptcy.html

ANGRY!:furious3:

[Idaho]

Much as I dislike New Labour, I am loathe to blame them directly as any of the current parties would have led us down the same garden path. All of them have been repeating the mantra of financial deregulation that has well and truely *&^%~@# us all.

Brown or Cameron? Total non-choice. The only difference being that the Tories will give the poor a bit more of a kicking.

[Fragony]

Brown is a total :daisy: but crisis would have happened regardless, sit back and enjoy, may you live in interesting times

[naut]

Can't say I didn't see that coming.

[Fisherking]

..., may you live in interesting times


That is a curse, I am sure you know!

The times are much too interesting as it is already…any more interesting and it is going to get very uncomfortable.

:help:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Much as I dislike New Labour, I am loathe to blame them directly as any of the current parties would have led us down the same garden path. All of them have been repeating the mantra of financial deregulation that has well and truely *&^%~@# us all.

Brown or Cameron? Total non-choice. The only difference being that the Tories will give the poor a bit more of a kicking.

I don't know, the Tories are wont to horde money, Labour are wont to spend it. Right now that distinction makes all the difference.

[LittleGrizzly]

I don't know, the Tories are wont to horde money, Labour are wont to spend it. Right now that distinction makes all the difference.

I thought the torys were going to match labours spending ? though i did hear a different time they had some tax cuts lined up as well... so im really not sure...

Brown or Cameron? Total non-choice.

Agreed, what do you think about the Lib Dems though... decent alternative, wasted vote or willing to say anything to get votes...

I see them as better than the two main party's, to what degree i am unsure on, they would be a fairly small difference...

I would be happy for the labour party to fall... an actual left wing political party would be nice...

[Andres]

I don't think many of the current politicians in our western societies are capable of dealing with the disasters that are happening now.

What did you expect, our leaders are winners of a stupid popularity contest, called elections.

There are no tests or exams, you don't need a degree whatsoever to be allowed to participate in these contests. Nobody has to be a capable man or woman to become elected into office and nobody has to have common sense or has to be a responsable person, just being popular is enough.

Brown, like many others in his place, probably doesn't care about his citizens, the only thing he really cares about is his position.

/cynism.

[Fragony]

That is a curse, I am sure you know!

The times are much too interesting as it is already…any more interesting and it is going to get very uncomfortable.

:help:

Chinese proverb actually. I still got 10 toes and 9,5 fingers (fridge tore it off yes we can) I am ready for everything. Common this is great fun we will just have to make due with a little less. I lost a lot of money, so what, sky isn't falling down.

[tibilicus]

Brown can't solely be blamed for the economic problem. if your going to blame one person for it blame former president Bush. Leader of the worlds biggest economy and then bang recession hits after years of poor management with money. Just another thing he did wrong. Just remember pretty much half the Western worlds economy depends on the USA. As soon as their bubble went bust so did everybody else's.

And whilst Brown is no hero I would prefer him over the Eaton graduate's club any day. To be honest if any one is even considering voting for that upper class snob Cameron you should be ashamed of yourself. Like he has the peoples best interest at heart and not the banks.

Yer right..

[Fragony]

Brown can't solely be blamed for the economic problem. if your going to blame one person for it blame former president Bush.

Why? Clinton actually, banks actually do not like lending money to people who can't pay it back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

[tibilicus]

Why? Clinton actually, banks actually do not like lending money to people who can't pay it back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

Bushy hardly did a great job of regulating it though did he? He was the one who also stood by and did nothing whilst the sub prime housing market went to the wall.

To be honest if we actually tried to regulate our markets and make sure the banks weren't so careless with who they lend money to we could of probably avoided this. Of course this is hard to do when you have some loonies who think regulation is socialism..

[Vladimir]

I love it! European version of Bush Derangement Syndrome. :2thumbsup:

[Fragony]

Bushy hardly did a great job of regulating it though did he? He was the one who also stood by and did nothing whilst the sub prime housing market went to the wall.

To be honest if we actually tried to regulate our markets and make sure the banks weren't so careless with who they lend money to we could of probably avoided this. Of course this is hard to do when you have some loonies who think regulation is socialism..

It isn't that easy to just make a law just go away, blaming Bush for this is more then a little bit off.

you read this?

The Equal Credit Opportunity Act, enacted in 1974, makes it unlawful for any creditor to discriminate against any applicant, with respect to any aspect of a credit transaction, on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, or age. Failure to comply can subject a financial institution to civil liability for actual and punitive damages

[Fisherking]

Well since we are hanging and flogging I propose we dig up the parliament of 1714 and hang and flog them for allowing George I to be made king in the first place….

[Idaho]

I don't know, the Tories are wont to horde money, Labour are wont to spend it. Right now that distinction makes all the difference.

Naah - they both play exactly the same game:


Link to graph (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45236000/gif/_45236699_uk_budg_deficit_466gr.gif)


Agreed, what do you think about the Lib Dems though... decent alternative, wasted vote or willing to say anything to get votes...

At best an irrelevance. What this country needs is real democracy rather than the occassional choice to opt for Coke or Pepsi.

Don't vote. Watch the turnout levels drop and drop and watch the established parties get increasingly twitchy. When turnout drops they run the risk of being ambushed by single issue campaigners.

When was the last time we had proper constitutional reform? (yes yes I know about the unwritten constitution etc)

In the 21st century we should be consulted on policy. Professional politicians rising the ranks by being professionally bland, getting the right backers and not saying anything wrong. That's led us to the insipid bland twits who run the show now.

[KukriKhan]

Brown can't solely be blamed for the economic problem. if your going to blame one person for it blame former president Bush. Leader of the worlds biggest economy and then bang recession hits after years of poor management with money. Just another thing he did wrong. Just remember pretty much half the Western worlds economy depends on the USA. As soon as their bubble went bust so did everybody else's.

And whilst Brown is no hero I would prefer him over the Eaton graduate's club any day. To be honest if any one is even considering voting for that upper class snob Cameron you should be ashamed of yourself. Like he has the peoples best interest at heart and not the banks.

Yer right..

So there we have it: total elapsed time from some stated problem to "it's Bush's fault" = 3.5 hours.

C'mon Lads, we can surely improve on that. :laugh4:

[tibilicus]

It isn't that easy to just make a law just go away, blaming Bush for this is more then a little bit off.

you read this?

The Equal Credit Opportunity Act, enacted in 1974, makes it unlawful for any creditor to discriminate against any applicant, with respect to any aspect of a credit transaction, on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, or age. Failure to comply can subject a financial institution to civil liability for actual and punitive damages


That article says something about discrimination but doesn't say anything about the person ability to repay loans more that it's saying that banks can't discriminate against people on grounds of race ect. Well that's what I made from reading that bit you posted.

And I know it isn't the soul responsibility of Bush, the fact is with the kind of free market and capitalist system the world runs boom and bust is bound to happen it's simply unavoidable. What Bush didn't do however was try and soften the blow. He would of been aware as a lot of people predicted that the sub prime market would go kaput and that the worlds banking system would ultimately hit recessions but the fact is him, as well as a lot of other notable world leaders failed to act sooner and instead buried their heads in the sand and tried to ignore the issue. I'm not simplistic to think that it's all down to Bush, but the fact is his administration did little to prepare or act on the problem.

Just look how long it took for any government to actually try and act on the problem. only recently we here in the UK have had a scheme put into help prop up the banks. After that failed we then had another one put in worth even more.

You know what the whole joke is though? Northern Rock, one of the first banks to be hit and be nationalised from the government will still give its employees and big cat executives bonuses this year. That to me is disgusting. Maybe if the government actually quit trying to keep all their attention on keeping inflation levels down and tried to tackle the huge unemployment problem looming over the UK people might actually support the government backed schemes.

I wouldn't be surprised to be honest if this time next year we have another winter of discontent. That's presuming this problem will get worse and unemployment figures will grow.

[Idaho]

I don't think it was specifically Bush's fault. I think the blame has to be put at people like Greenspan really. He presided and proclaimed the mantra of deregulation. Bush, like Brown et al, were just followers.

[Fragony]

Well since we are hanging and flogging I propose we dig up the parliament of 1714 and hang and flog them for allowing George I to be made king in the first place….

It will be a triumh when the Brits will have the same rights they had back then.

[tibilicus]

So there we have it: total elapsed time from some stated problem to "it's Bush's fault" = 3.5 hours.

C'mon Lads, we can surely improve on that. :laugh4:


I'm not trying to say that please read my other post. https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2114148&postcount=18

All im trying to say is Bush did nothing along with a lot of other governments to even try and regulate the economy. I'm pretty sure that Australia has a much more vigorously regulated economy where banks,hedge funds and the like are regulated and poor credit transactions and toxic loans are a less common occurrence. I'm stating however that Bush, being leader of the single biggest economy in which every economy in the world almost is tied into did not do a good job of managing the economy. It's not just me that's saying that it's a lot of economic analysts.

The reason why I point at bush is because it was his responsibility to regulate and bring stability the the US and world economic system. Fair enough he didn't cause half the problems involved in it but from where I'm standing he did bugger all to try and soften the blow.

[Idaho]

Maybe if the government actually quit trying to keep all their attention on keeping inflation levels down and tried to tackle the huge unemployment problem looming over the UK people might actually support the government backed schemes.

I wouldn't be surprised to be honest if this time next year we have another winter of discontent. That's presuming this problem will get worse and unemployment figures will grow.

Create jobs! That's crazy talk. I mean, come on! These people without jobs are just lazy. They were so lazy that they made the global economy crash, and now they can't even be bothered to get another job.

The rich used to need to the poor. They needed workers, and someone skilled or unskilled could get work easily enough. The difference between the highest paid and the lowest paid was large - 20-30 times on average. Mechanisation meant that fewer workers were needed, and fewer skilled workers. The pool of unemployed had a happy side-effect: they suppressed wage levels. The differential between the highest and lowest paid in a company changed to nearer 80 times.

Jobs and unemployment is a major issue for normal people. We want to work and feed our families. We want to participate and be valued in our communities. And yet it's never that big a deal with the politicians. Somehow 'benefit/welfare scroungers' is always higher up the list. Why do you think that might be?

[Idaho]

It will be a triumph when the Brits will have the same rights they had back then.

I know what you are saying, and agree with the gist - even if the details don't quite measure up :yes:

[InsaneApache]

Leave the great man alone. He's the best chancellor that we have ever had. An economic genius. Then to top it all, he is invited to become the prime minister no less, what a colossus of a man. Calm thoughtfulness, charming, humble, self-effacing and witty, the man doesn't need to stand on the shoulder of giants, he lets the giants stand on his!

Yes you ungrateful swine, you don't know how lucky you are. If it wasn't for the Tories and that cow Thatcher we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. It's all well and good blaming our Great Leader for this mess but remember Thatcher started it all. After 30 years, down comes the edifice of personal greed and corruption of the Tory fats cats who pinched all the cream.

So take heart. Gordon, our Great Leader, will lead away from the zionist, corrupt, capitalist pig of a society and lead us into the sunny uplands of a socialist uptopia.

I can't wait meself, I've already got me bags packed.

[Idaho]

IA - I don't get you Tories. You won. You got the Labour Party to be just like the Conservative Party. And yet you still complain and draw laughable reference to 'socialism'.

[KukriKhan]

So take heart. Gordon, our Great Leader, will lead away from the zionist, corrupt, capitalist pig of a society and lead us into the sunny uplands of a socialist uptopia.

I can't wait meself, I've already got me bags packed.

LOL. Just don't forget to mail your wallet, checkbook, credit cards and full Power of Attorney to 10 Downing before you depart. :)

[Incongruous]

Leave the great man alone. He's the best chancellor that we have ever had. An economic genius. Then to top it all, he is invited to become the prime minister no less, what a colossus of a man. Calm thoughtfulness, charming, humble, self-effacing and witty, the man doesn't need to stand on the shoulder of giants, he lets the giants stand on his!


Good God IA you sound like one of those Germans inside Hitlers Bunker, all smiles and encouragement while the bombs drop, are you Labour IA?:inquisitive:
You could have a future as a Brownite advisor.

[Devastatin Dave]

I don't think many of the current politicians in our western societies are capable of dealing with the disasters that are happening now.
.

There is much truth, wisdom, and irony in that statement that I'm sure most here won't read into.

[InsaneApache]

Good God IA you sound like one of those Germans inside Hitlers Bunker, all smiles and encouragement while the bombs drop, are you Labour IA?:inquisitive:
You could have a future as a Brownite advisor.

Yes. I've seen the light. No more for me the selfishness of wanting to feed and house my family without government help.

No more for me the selfishness of wanting to stand on my own two feet, when our Great Leader knows what's best for me.

No more the selfishness of wanting to keep more of my income, so I can decided how to spend it, when our Great Leader is all knowing and can spend it for me more wisely.

I would gladly sell my house and all it's possessions so that I can give the money to our Great Leader to do with as he will. Ensuring that the shining path to a socialist paradise is trodden, lead of course, by our Great Leader.

[Fisherking]

Originally Posted by Andres
I don't think many of the current politicians in our western societies are capable of dealing with the disasters that are happening now.

There is much truth, wisdom, and irony in that statement that I'm sure most here won't read into.

They would much prefer to be making and trying to fix their own disasters….

[Incongruous]

Yes. I've seen the light. No more for me the selfishness of wanting to feed and house my family without government help.

No more for me the selfishness of wanting to stand on my own two feet, when our Great Leader knows what's best for me.

No more the selfishness of wanting to keep more of my income, so I can decided how to spend it, when our Great Leader is all knowing and can spend it for me more wisely.

I would gladly sell my house and all it's possessions so that I can give the money to our Great Leader to do with as he will. Ensuring that the shining path to a socialist paradise is trodden, lead of course, by our Great Leader.

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

That's awsome, I suggest you send it in to the Telegraph so you can be identified and shot:smash:

[seireikhaan]

Ok, so here's an interesting little thing I found when I tried to investigate further into this matter beyond a hysterical news article. Behold (http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page?_pageid=1996,39140985&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL&screen=detailref&language=en&product=REF_TB_government_statistics&root=REF_TB_government_statistics/t_gov/t_gov_dd/tsieb090).

This is why I'm highly skeptical of this claim that a government is "going broke". Indeed, the UK's total indebtedness as a percentage of the GDP is less than it was in the early nineties. Just calculating gross debt is pointless if one does not take into account how economically powerful a country is. A five trillion dollar debt for Tunisia would be much more harmful than a five trillion dollar debt for France. Indeed, one can even look at Japan, which has debt near or even well over 100 percent over the last decade. Yet, the country is hardly breaking apart at the seems or in danger of having the central government collapse.

So... in other words... :drama1:

The more important thing for respective governments is to take proper steps to rejuvenating their economies.

[InsaneApache]

There ya go.....have some fun giving your the states money to our Great Leader.

http://www.bailoutbrown.com/

Enjoy.

[rory_20_uk]

I do agree that the British Economy isn't yet ruined, but when the GDP is going to be decreasing, and the debt increasing, the percentage debt is going to increase pretty fast.

We're technically insolvent in that we can not pay off all debts if all were called in tomorrow - but that is true of almost all countries.

Rejeuvinating is the key, and here in the UK we're not great at making jobs that create wealth, rather just recycle it (so, increase the public workers, ignore manufacturing). Although funding education to 18, and masses going to 21 stangely we've not got a highly skilled workforce...

The tendrils of the state needs to be heavily pared back, along with lowering taxes. Better to do a few things well than a vast number badly.

~:smoking:

[naut]

Not long. Not long. (http://xrl.in/1gfc)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Took a second, but... yeah.:beam:

[Furunculus]

Much as I dislike New Labour, I am loathe to blame them directly as any of the current parties would have led us down the same garden path. All of them have been repeating the mantra of financial deregulation that has well and truely *&^%~@# us all.

Brown or Cameron? Total non-choice. The only difference being that the Tories will give the poor a bit more of a kicking.

there is nothing wrong with deregulation, in fact it is the reason why the city of london reigns supreme.
however you need good regulation, and labour hasn't supplied that. giving the BoE the ability to set interest rate was a good move*, but stopping the BoE from regulating banks in favour of the tri-partite formula was a disaster/





* the tories never did it because they were happy to let labour screw the economy via over-management.

[Furunculus]

Brown can't solely be blamed for the economic problem. if your going to blame one person for it blame former president Bush. Leader of the worlds biggest economy and then bang recession hits after years of poor management with money. Just another thing he did wrong. Just remember pretty much half the Western worlds economy depends on the USA. As soon as their bubble went bust so did everybody else's.

And whilst Brown is no hero I would prefer him over the Eaton graduate's club any day. To be honest if any one is even considering voting for that upper class snob Cameron you should be ashamed of yourself. Like he has the peoples best interest at heart and not the banks.

Yer right..

you might try clinton, it was his gov't that persuaded Fannie and Freddie to provide social lending.

i think you will find that a free marketeer is the polar opposite to a corprotist (sp?), and browns nationalising of the banks give him a great claim to the latter title.

[Furunculus]

Naah - they both play exactly the same game:



you graph conveniently ignores which governments grew the economy.

[Furunculus]

IA - I don't get you Tories. You won. You got the Labour Party to be just like the Conservative Party. And yet you still complain and draw laughable reference to 'socialism'.

a tory government doesn't absorb 43% of the economy in taxation and Gov't spending.

[Furunculus]

The tendrils of the state needs to be heavily pared back, along with lowering taxes. Better to do a few things well than a vast number badly.

~:smoking:

the truth, brother.

[rory_20_uk]

Multipost is quite useful...

~:smoking: